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720s FTW!! (T-Hawk thread)

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  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    gridman is super good, he gave me the rape stick in the brown eye last night >.< it's really odd playing against T Hawk only because i don't play many at all, even though i got beat pretty badly i learned a lot of neat stuff, thanks for the matches man

    anytime im on im always down for playing with good players. just realize if theres a lot of ryu/sagat playing, its not me, its my bro :P . i hate ryu (find him boring) and only play him if i get him in random
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    How do you do a effective jump in to a thawk driver? Every time I try it I just get that stupid animation which leads me open to a combo. I love how T.Hawk can control the play with his mobility, but I can't pull off a t.hawk slam without putting myself at big risk.
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    You have to time it, you cant go straight into grab :/
  • Slayer KFKSlayer KFK Joined: Posts: 160
    anytime im on im always down for playing with good players. just realize if theres a lot of ryu/sagat playing, its not me, its my bro :P . i hate ryu (find him boring) and only play him if i get him in random

    do you ever use your mic? there's some questions i think of on the go but never remember, like that combo you did that was crazy good, i think it was cross up splash standing mp maybe, then mk into dp?
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    its splash, s.mk xx fp dp. Dizzy combo :). Works great on shotos and blanka after a grab, I've ended matches real quick with that shit.
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    id just like to say ragingstormx that in the corner, you cant just keep doing meaty cl.mk its really important to mix up ticks and be able to safe jump against every character (besides like akuma and i dont think you can against blanka since upball or whatever hits on first frame).

    also dont bother using cr.fp against vegas wall dives. easiest thing to do is just jump back jab.

    jump fp is such an awesome jump in. its even better goin air to air against some characters who can jump higher than you (like chun and vega). because you cant really see it unless you hit with it, but there is a huge hitbox above his head and it stuffs so much shit.

    I havent been grabed out of c.fp yet, its probably the best damn aa in the game normal wise. Also I was messing around with the lp typhoon and it does seem easier to grab with which is weird. You can grab (it seems) right after a tick to where fp seem its tighter timing. On that not if you tick and kara cancel a c.lk, it grabs instantly. Beats me.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    do you ever use your mic? there's some questions i think of on the go but never remember, like that combo you did that was crazy good, i think it was cross up splash standing mp maybe, then mk into dp?

    sometimes. usually if its with people i know i will but if its in a player room with a few that i know or whatever, i dont because people are just annoying
  • Slayer KFKSlayer KFK Joined: Posts: 160
    lol that chun who you just kept splashing was getting uber pissy
  • Slayer KFKSlayer KFK Joined: Posts: 160
    sorry for the double post, and this may be a dumb question, but when you say kara cancel, does it work like a third strike kara grab, where you use one move to move further before you grab, or are you talking about just using that as your move to tick with?
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    lol that chun who you just kept splashing was getting uber pissy

    Hahahaha yeah well, chun really cant do much if anything to that, shes got to get higher than hawk to knock him out of it and thats a LOT easier said then done.

    as for the kara question - there is really next to no uses (as far as i know) to kara any normal into anything in ST. it doesnt seem like it moves you forward at all or add anything. when i say i kara'd something into 360, its usually by mistake because of drumming the buttons to get a 360 out after a tick. the most common one ive done (back in vanilla ST) was kara stand fierce into 360 so youd see thawk do that chop he does and then just grab them. but its(the chop) is so fasts that it doesnt make them go into block stun (other wise you wouldnt be able to grab them).
  • FreshOJFreshOJ It's the God in me.. Joined: Posts: 1,485
    its splash, s.mk xx fp dp. Dizzy combo :). Works great on shotos and blanka after a grab, I've ended matches real quick with that shit.

    Can you add a cl.wp or f+cl.wp before the cl.mk in that combo or does it push them too far back? It used to work in Super...though that was probably against bigger characters (Blanka lncluded).
    Onaje Everett
    Still in S.D., representing the Almighty.
    READ MY FAQ!!! (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/file/939066/56195)
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    i dunno but its probably not even worth it. its essentially a death combo. if you do the same thing again as their dizzy, they're left with like a mp worth of health. you can kill them by doing crossup splash clmk fierce typhoon
  • FreshOJFreshOJ It's the God in me.. Joined: Posts: 1,485
    i dunno but its probably not even worth it. its essentially a death combo. if you do the same thing again as their dizzy, they're left with like a mp worth of health.

    No...I must K.O. them!!! NO CHANCE TO COMEBACK EVAR!!! :arazz:

    But for real though, my bad...the combo I was thinking of was xup.splash, cr.mk, cl.wp XX Thunderstrike. I don't know if they're not pushed too far back for this in ST. I must try it.
    you can kill them by doing crossup splash clmk fierce typhoon

    Or you could do that as that looks a little better. :) Showoff! :arazz:
    Onaje Everett
    Still in S.D., representing the Almighty.
    READ MY FAQ!!! (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/file/939066/56195)
  • Nos99Nos99 Science Scrub Joined: Posts: 4,652
    ^ I think the combo you mentioned works against characters that are fat enough to get hit by the jab after the crouching forward. Sim, Guile, etc. I know it works without the crossup anyhow.

    crossup splash, close stand short x2, 2-hit fierce rising hawk would be his most damaging combo maybe? I never go for it because it's a stupid hard link, but I *think* I remember that working.

    Is anyone else noticing that jump forward knee is a more ambiguous crossup than the splash? That barely-get-over-them jumping knees seems to hit quite a lot for me compared to the splash.

    I also don't see the unwinnable matchup against Cammy. Sure it's hard, but so is everyone else. low forward and then AA when you jump is good, but isn't that what Guile does too? I just don't see it being THAT much harder than fighting other characters.
  • FreshOJFreshOJ It's the God in me.. Joined: Posts: 1,485
    ^ I think the combo you mentioned works against characters that are fat enough to get hit by the jab after the crouching forward. Sim, Guile, etc. I know it works without the crossup anyhow.

    That sounds about right. It's been a while. I should just get on the horse, test out links on ST, and translate that link FAQ of mine into an ST Link FAQ and be done with it.
    crossup splash, close stand short x2, 2-hit fierce rising hawk would be his most damaging combo maybe? I never go for it because it's a stupid hard link, but I *think* I remember that working.

    It's probably not because 2 shorts aren't going to be as damaging as a close forward kick.

    Besides...did you forget about xup.splash, cr.wp(x3) XX HP Typhoon? :) (I hope I'm remembering that right. I know you can do 4 jabs with Zangief and I always remembered T.Hawk's Typhoon range as < Zangief's SPD range.)
    I also don't see the unwinnable matchup against Cammy. Sure it's hard, but so is everyone else. low forward and then AA when you jump is good, but isn't that what Guile does too? I just don't see it being THAT much harder than fighting other characters.

    That begs the question that I asked a while back in this thread...

    What does Hawk have now that can beat either Cammy's cr.mk or Thrust Kick? He didn't have anything in vanilla ST and that's why Cammy won...FOR FREE!!! I would think that his cr.lk or cr.mk would've been given priority over her cr.mk or something to force Cammy to rely on something else. *shrug*

    And...now that you mention it...what does Hawk have to beat Guile's cr.mk? I'm certain there's a reason why Guile wasn't mentioned in the FOR FREE win over Hawk group.
    Onaje Everett
    Still in S.D., representing the Almighty.
    READ MY FAQ!!! (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/file/939066/56195)
  • kekken3kekken3 team Stupid Grappler Joined: Posts: 59
    A random question. In a recent offline session more than once it seemed to me that I 360 grabbed Ryu out of a SRK startup. The opponent got the reversal sign during my tick throw sequence and I'm pretty sure it was the SRK startup animation, not a fireball. Now, a Hawk 720 is shown to grab Ryu out of a SRK in one of NKI's videos and I think there was something mentioned here as well. If it even does, how does it work? Is Ryu simply grabbable during his SRK startup so others (let's say Gief) could throw him as well? Or is it a Hawk specific thing?
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Dp isnt fully invincible.
  • lseelbalseelba You must defeat ShengLong Joined: Posts: 870
    A random question. In a recent offline session more than once it seemed to me that I 360 grabbed Ryu out of a SRK startup. The opponent got the reversal sign during my tick throw sequence and I'm pretty sure it was the SRK startup animation, not a fireball. Now, a Hawk 720 is shown to grab Ryu out of a SRK in one of NKI's videos and I think there was something mentioned here as well. If it even does, how does it work? Is Ryu simply grabbable during his SRK startup so others (let's say Gief) could throw him as well? Or is it a Hawk specific thing?

    Was it a low, med, or high strength SRK?
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  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    cammy isnt really that hard of a matchup as you're making it out to be. you forget hawk has some bomb pokes.
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    cammy isnt really that hard of a matchup as you're making it out to be. you forget hawk has some bomb pokes.

    Gridman is right, match is very winnable, just need to poke and be patient. C.mk and fp is good in that match, and if the cammy is just whoring c.mk, c.fp that shit, stuffs it clean.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    dont underestimate the 2nd hit of cr.rh. :)
  • Slayer KFKSlayer KFK Joined: Posts: 160
    yesterday i was trying to do cross up splash cr. jab then 360, i can usually do it no problem, but against bison after the cr. jab he would grab me every time, is he just able to do that? or could it have been online lag or something which to me seemed like i was going at the right speed but for him i was going slow, hence creating a window
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    yesterday i was trying to do cross up splash cr. jab then 360, i can usually do it no problem, but against bison after the cr. jab he would grab me every time, is he just able to do that? or could it have been online lag or something which to me seemed like i was going at the right speed but for him i was going slow, hence creating a window

    ALWAYS use 2 x cr.jabs after a cross-up, to distance yourself out of their throw range (versus some characters like Gief it ain't possible). Could any of you Hawk players test out if cross-up -> cr.jab -> cr.jab -> st.jab XX Typhoon is possible on a blocking opponent, I'm sure it won't work against some from the cast ;\~
  • Spirited_AwaySpirited_Away Joined: Posts: 521 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Can you add a cl.wp or f+cl.wp before the cl.mk in that combo or does it push them too far back? It used to work in Super...though that was probably against bigger characters (Blanka lncluded).

    Doesn't work in ST, unless it hits them backwards. But you can add the jab after a low forward thou.
  • FreshOJFreshOJ It's the God in me.. Joined: Posts: 1,485
    Doesn't work in ST, unless it hits them backwards. But you can add the jab after a low forward thou.

    Yep...I caught myself. See post #214. :)
    Onaje Everett
    Still in S.D., representing the Almighty.
    READ MY FAQ!!! (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/file/939066/56195)
  • Slayer KFKSlayer KFK Joined: Posts: 160
    ALWAYS use 2 x cr.jabs after a cross-up, to distance yourself out of their throw range (versus some characters like Gief it ain't possible). Could any of you Hawk players test out if cross-up -> cr.jab -> cr.jab -> st.jab XX Typhoon is possible on a blocking opponent, I'm sure it won't work against some from the cast ;\~

    thanks, it's been a lot of help, i can't get the timing on cross up splash, mk, fp dp. the dp is always blocked, the first 2 i can get every time though
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    thanks, it's been a lot of help, i can't get the timing on cross up splash, mk, fp dp. the dp is always blocked, the first 2 i can get every time though

    You have to 2-in-1 the Fierce Rising Hawk with the st.forward.

  • FreshOJFreshOJ It's the God in me.. Joined: Posts: 1,485
    ALWAYS use 2 x cr.jabs after a cross-up, to distance yourself out of their throw range (versus some characters like Gief it ain't possible). Could any of you Hawk players test out if cross-up -> cr.jab -> cr.jab -> st.jab XX Typhoon is possible on a blocking opponent, I'm sure it won't work against some from the cast ;\~

    One, you can just do 3 crouching jabs and then tick into the Typhoon and it'll connect.

    Two, add a crossup splash to the beginning of that sequence and you have one of Hawk's ToD combos.

    Three, if hit stun lasts longer than block stun, then you can be sure that if the above sequence works on hit, then it works on block.

    Four, Zangief's SPD has more throw range than Hawk's Typhoon, and that's why Zangief can do the same sequence of moves as Hawk but add one more crouching jab before ticking into the SPD for the 50% damage and dizzy combo.
    Onaje Everett
    Still in S.D., representing the Almighty.
    READ MY FAQ!!! (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/file/939066/56195)
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    snip
    1) I'm concerned about range, nothing else.
    2) Any "ToD" that involves a command throw that can be escaped by a reversal move is not a _true_ ToD
  • lseelbalseelba You must defeat ShengLong Joined: Posts: 870
    yesterday i was trying to do cross up splash cr. jab then 360, i can usually do it no problem, but against bison after the cr. jab he would grab me every time, is he just able to do that? or could it have been online lag or something which to me seemed like i was going at the right speed but for him i was going slow, hence creating a window

    There isn't any tick throw in the game where the offense has a frame advantage. In fact I don't know of any tick throws where the defender doesn't have at least a one frame advantage.

    That being said T. Hawks tick tricks work because the tick pushes the opponent out of THEIR throw range so they can't counter throw. Unfortunately Bison has a really good throw range which is why you see a lot of Bison's doing tick tricks of their own.

    Yeah as someone else said just add another jab in for certain characters.
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  • MonteMonte Well-Known Member (2 ur mom) Joined: Posts: 2,807
    anybody have any vids of themselves making full use of the new and "improved" t. hawk's faculties. I don't want to get into a full on argument but I'm starting to become convinced that the old hawk is better but of course I'm a scrub and I'm interested to see how the non-scrubs with more skills and more imagination are doing.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    old hawk is better. lol only buff r.hawk has is "easier" walk up 360s/(and a possible walk up 720) and the fact that he has a super. the old dive is loads better and if you were a serious t.hawk player, you already could walk up 360.
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    If T.Hawks dive knocked down he would be so dope.
  • MonteMonte Well-Known Member (2 ur mom) Joined: Posts: 2,807
    yeah, I can't imagine any top t. hawk player giving up safe jump, option select cyclone shenanigans for the new dive that doesn't do crap against against the characters that really screw t. hawk over. I'd love to see sirlin's test matches that made him think this version is better.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    Thats just the thing people dont get (you said it better than I could because im just stupid haha). Hawks new dive is better against characters he didnt really NEED it against (ryu, gief, cammy, fei,) but in matches where he NEEDED a knockdown or hes screwed (guile, dj, sim, rog, honda) a dive was nearly his only (relatively) safe option.
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    Even N.Hawk is better than R.Hawk. N.Hawk is all about the loop so if you got that down and can live without O.Hawk's added tools it's the same old thing, knockdown and the rest is a portion Froot Loops.
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Supposedly the new dive was 2 strong when it knockeddown so he took it out. But yeah, his bad matches didn't get any better, if anything they got worse, since he no longer has a safe grab. They can actually try to super and hit you if you go for the grab.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    unbelievable. really, 2 dives would be nice. the safe one mapped to kkk and the one that knocks down that every smart person would use at ppp.
  • VirtuaFighterFourVirtuaFighterFour VirtuaFighter.com Joined: Posts: 1,572
    How has Hawk changed?

    Better normals. Ok, the better normals are decent, but rarely are you going to win a match solely on using normal attacks. And they removed the stray low strong hit box...what a balance changer.

    Easier special command inputs? While T.Hawk's vertical jump is 3 frames, anyone who has played Hawk for the last couple of years is not bothered by that. So giving T.Hawk a new input for throw is appealing 100% to scrubs and noobs. And while you can still use the old 270 command....it's useless to negative edge the throw now as T.Hawk has a giant whiff animation. The whiff animation has only one benefit, you can charge meter with it, but everything else is a major downside. The worst part is that the whiff animation comes out immediately after normal attacks meaning the timing for tick throwing has changed for T.Hawk so people have to relearn the muscle memory for his throw setups.

    The dive. The dive has easier inputs....for scrubs, wonderful. And it is 'safe' but there are still instances where people can sweep or hit Hawk after the dive. And the dive no longer knocks down, a major, major nerf. The reason the dive was changed was 100% in favor of scrubs playing T.Hawk yet again. Most seasoned T.Hawk players know when and when not to use the dive. The dive was a risk and reward move. A competent Hawk player would have enough yomi or understanding to know that "oh here comes a fireball, time to dive" but now for the same series of moves, where you know the opponent is going to throw a fireball, if you guess correctly you get a hit dive with no knockdown and then little advantage after that.

    So Hawk has better normals, worse dive, and worse special throw.....?

    Am I missing anything here?

    I get so many whiffed throws online that I switched to using Vega (Dictator) and Honda for the most part.
    VF5:FS - Akira, Jean, Wolf, Taka
    VF4/EVO/FT - Wolf, Akira, Goh, Kage, Jacky
    ST - Dictator, Hawk, Boxer, Honda, O.Hawk, Sagat, Ken, O.Boxer, Claw
    3S - Q, Gouki, Ryu III
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    Seriously man, even when you hit with the new dive, you get pushed out by sim honda guile and deejay making it completely arbitrary. Give the old dive back.
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