720s FTW!! (T-Hawk thread)

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  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    snip

    You're almost completely right, but there were no changes from O.Hawk's to R.Hawk's normals. I read what Sirlin said about R.Hawk's cr.strong doesn't have a stray hitbox like N.Hawk's, but O.Hawk's cr.strong never had a stray hitbox (Classic Training Mode + Hitboxes) and R.Hawk is a clone of O.Hawk.

    I feel much more comfortable with the old motion, since it mostly doesn't end with me doing a whiff animation while my opponent is in hit- or blockstun.
  • MonteMonte Well-Known Member (2 ur mom) Joined: Posts: 2,807
    the only real benefit I've personally gotten with new hawk is being able to do a cyclone with :db::qcf::uf::p:. I think sirlin really missed the mark, he had a design philosophy that runs counter to why t. hawk plays love hawk. I happily took my lumps with the hopes of one day mastering the safe jump shenanigans that got an all t. hawk team to 3rd place in x-mania. maybe once someone masters and incorporates everything about r. hawk he might be better but right now it looks like he's worse and I think ready to begrudgingly move onto a new character. Maybe zangief since he's a grappler that is actually improved.
  • Higher-JinHigher-Jin MvC2 Moderator Joined: Posts: 1,953
    You guys are a bunch of whiners. T Hawk got the "greatest hits" treatment. Best normals from O. Hawk (It's not just c. mp, it's standing RH, C. rh, splash, and jumping mp among others) while keeping his super and getting a safe Hawk Dive. You can even do walk up super now without being Japanese. If you are getting pushed out so easily then you just suck. You have at least 3 options after a blocked hawk dive: 1) Dragon punch 2) Jump up and hawk dive again and 3) wait and react. Those 3 options should beat out just about anything if you guess it right. If they want to sit there and do nothing then just walk up 360. How much more can you ask for?

    He is thoroughly better. No you don't get to try to repeatedly 360 people for free. You have actually accountability for fucking up a 360 tick set up. I only wish Honda had the same thing.
    Either we all live in a decent world, or nobody does. - George Orwell
  • Nos99Nos99 Science Scrub Joined: Posts: 4,652
    It's probably not because 2 shorts aren't going to be as damaging as a close forward kick.

    Actually, his standing short does a LOT of damage. It's one of those high damage shorts like Guile's. I bet 2 standing shorts will do more damage than anything else he can do (barring backwards moves) and still allow 2 hits of the uppercut.

    But this is all conjecture, as I remember the link being stupid hard. ..and it might not even work anyhow. lol

    But don't underestimate the power of standing short! :P
    That begs the question that I asked a while back in this thread...

    What does Hawk have now that can beat either Cammy's cr.mk or Thrust Kick? He didn't have anything in vanilla ST and that's why Cammy won...FOR FREE!!! I would think that his cr.lk or cr.mk would've been given priority over her cr.mk or something to force Cammy to rely on something else. *shrug*

    And...now that you mention it...what does Hawk have to beat Guile's cr.mk? I'm certain there's a reason why Guile wasn't mentioned in the FOR FREE win over Hawk group.

    I'm sure Hawk can trade with the low foward with his own or with sweep or something. You can s.rh after close blocked thrust kick. But not after far ones I don't think.. didn't they make it bounce even further back when blocked in this game?

    It's still hard, but I just don't think it's as easy as sitting there and mashing low forward, and thrust kick when hawk jumps. I don't think I'd be able to beat toutanki with that strategy, do you? :P

    Against Guile you can hit/trade the low forward with your own or with sweep.. sweep is a trading machine!
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    You guys are a bunch of whiners. T Hawk got the "greatest hits" treatment. Best normals from O. Hawk (It's not just c. mp, it's standing RH, C. rh, splash, and jumping mp among others) while keeping his super and getting a safe Hawk Dive. You can even do walk up super now without being Japanese. If you are getting pushed out so easily then you just suck. You have at least 3 options after a blocked hawk dive: 1) Dragon punch 2) Jump up and hawk dive again and 3) wait and react. Those 3 options should beat out just about anything if you guess it right. If they want to sit there and do nothing then just walk up 360. How much more can you ask for?

    He is thoroughly better. No you don't get to try to repeatedly 360 people for free. You have actually accountability for fucking up a 360 tick set up. I only wish Honda had the same thing.

    You forgot walk up 360 after dive once they get them scared of dp.
  • MonteMonte Well-Known Member (2 ur mom) Joined: Posts: 2,807
    *snip*

    hey thanks for regurgitating sirlin's balance article on t. hawk because no one here has read it and extra special thanks for offering an original thought at the end on the tick throw but completely misunderstanding what an option select is. there is no guaranteed tick throw so you can't "blow" the set up as if you're missing a combo. the option select lets you put in one input and get a favorable outcome no matter what your opponent does. you might say that's cheap or whatever but that's besides the point. Also we're the scrubs for being pushed out so easily? uhh let's go back to the original article:
    Specifically, Guile can block the dive, then low forward kick. If T.Hawk decides to walk up, he will always get hit by low forward. If T.Hawk decides to dragon punch when he lands, it will whiff vs the low forward (because of angles of the hitboxes) and Guile can punish him afterwards. If T.Hawk jumps in after the dive or jumps and dives again, Guile has time to retract his low forward and flash kick on reaction. Guile has plenty of answers here.
    and it goes on and on about how the characters that raped t. hawk can still easily get around the new dive. so is giving up a guaranteed loop really worth a super and a dive that offers no help against characters we wanted help against most? I think that's a very fair question to ask.

    I know I'm not the greatest and I came in here looking for some examples of the potential of r.hawk because my experience and gut is telling me he's worse. call me stupid, noob, scrub, whatever but when there's a character that is so controversial and peculiar as t. hawk I gotta see it to believe it.

    I think the thing I'm probably underestimating the most is the super and the mindgames that you can do with it.
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    Yeah I'm a whiner. You can't honestly believe that guys like me that have no yomi what-so-ever, now actually have think to win a match and not only execute?

    Give me a freaking break.




    Joke a side. The new SUPER motion really has fucked all safe opportunities for R.Hawk, if his SUPER could be executed like in good old ST there wasn't much to be whine about.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    You guys are a bunch of whiners. T Hawk got the "greatest hits" treatment. Best normals from O. Hawk (It's not just c. mp, it's standing RH, C. rh, splash, and jumping mp among others) while keeping his super and getting a safe Hawk Dive. You can even do walk up super now without being Japanese. If you are getting pushed out so easily then you just suck. You have at least 3 options after a blocked hawk dive: 1) Dragon punch 2) Jump up and hawk dive again and 3) wait and react. Those 3 options should beat out just about anything if you guess it right. If they want to sit there and do nothing then just walk up 360. How much more can you ask for?

    He is thoroughly better. No you don't get to try to repeatedly 360 people for free. You have actually accountability for fucking up a 360 tick set up. I only wish Honda had the same thing.


    Yeah we know how often everyone uses j.mp

    You cant walk up super with t.hawk in vanilla st, its impossible.

    Do you even play t.hawk? Go play a good fucking guile and when you do a hawk dive watch how fun it is to get pushed out. EVEN IF YOU PSYCHIC DP, cr.mk will go STRAIGHT THROUGH IT, and boom he hits you with another mk and a boom and you're out again. Go play a good honda and watch what happens if you're even lucky enough to a hawk dive off. Go play dj and watch what happens. Oh and add sim to that list.

    You dont know what you're talking about at all. The new dive sucks. There is no mixup against hawks bad matchup characters after a dive. At all. I promise. Walk up 360 doesnt work as well as you think and psychic dp is risky. I want risk but I want in the form of a dive that knocks down.

    R.Hawk is not better. At all.
  • Higher-JinHigher-Jin MvC2 Moderator Joined: Posts: 1,953
    Yeah we know how often everyone uses j.mp

    You cant walk up super with t.hawk in vanilla st, its impossible.

    Do you even play t.hawk? Go play a good fucking guile and when you do a hawk dive watch how fun it is to get pushed out. EVEN IF YOU PSYCHIC DP, cr.mk will go STRAIGHT THROUGH IT, and boom he hits you with another mk and a boom and you're out again. Go play a good honda and watch what happens if you're even lucky enough to a hawk dive off. Go play dj and watch what happens. Oh and add sim to that list.

    You dont know what you're talking about at all. The new dive sucks. There is no mixup against hawks bad matchup characters after a dive. At all. I promise. Walk up 360 doesnt work as well as you think and psychic dp is risky. I want risk but I want in the form of a dive that knocks down.

    R.Hawk is not better. At all.

    There is such a thing as a standing 720. I do play T. Hawk, and I take your complaints as whining because if you look at just about any of the character threads there's always people complaining their character is too weak, even in the top tier character threads. Trust me when I tell you that there are others that have far more legitimate complaints about their character. Overall, if you can't win with R. Hawk I have a hard time believing you could win with O. Hawk in the old Super Turbo days.

    If you really think your complaints are legit then take it up with Sirlin and see what he says. I bet you he'll call you a lunatic and offer to beat you down with T. Hawk any day of the week.
    Either we all live in a decent world, or nobody does. - George Orwell
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I win like 80% of my matches, Cammys, guile, Hondas, Rogs included.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    There is such a thing as a standing 720. I do play T. Hawk, and I take your complaints as whining because if you look at just about any of the character threads there's always people complaining their character is too weak, even in the top tier character threads. Trust me when I tell you that there are others that have far more legitimate complaints about their character. Overall, if you can't win with R. Hawk I have a hard time believing you could win with O. Hawk in the old Super Turbo days.

    If you really think your complaints are legit then take it up with Sirlin and see what he says. I bet you he'll call you a lunatic and offer to beat you down with T. Hawk any day of the week.


    Lol, last I checked on T.Akibas site, a standing 720 with t.hawk is impossible. Its possible with Gief but not hawk (hawk has like 3 jump frames). and dont refer me to that 4 second choppy shitty vid on youtube with the camera tilted.

    Listen, we all get it, you're pissed fei now blows even worse and cammy is still shitty. I got it. We all do.

    Im not saying I cant win with r.hawk. never did i say that. all ive been saying is that the NEW DIVE SUCKS and that the old dive was LOADS BETTER against his BAD MATCHUPS. THE NEW DIVE made the ALREADY BAD MATCHUPS WORSE and ONLY HELPED IN THE MATCHUPS HE DIDNT NEED HELP IN.

    is that clear for you? got it? i win most of my matches. the biggest problem is patient hondas (unwinnable if the honda sits in downback and ONLY uses headbutt. you cant win) and smart guiles/dj's.

    also not hating on sirlin but ive played his vega before and beat him with my hawk. id love to see him beat me down with hawk. or even better, YOU beat me down with your hawk. and yes that is a challenge to you. beat me down with hawk and ill shut up.
  • Nos99Nos99 Science Scrub Joined: Posts: 4,652
    Hey, -I- beat 98% of my opponents with Hawk. Only like 3 guys have ever beaten me.

    But that doesn't mean I'm any good though. It just means my opponents probably suck. :P

    Any of you guys building meter with Hawk? I find that by the time I get super meter, a regular 360 will usually kill them anyhow, making the super a waste of time. Feels wrong hanging back and whiffing throws... Doesn't really feel like I'm doing myself any favors by not trying to get in close.
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    Any of you guys building meter with Hawk? I find that by the time I get super meter, a regular 360...

    If the SUPER input command wasn't buggy, so 2 x HCF, B + release punch buttons worked, I'd definitely charge up that SUPER. Just walk-around "whiffing" it, if someone sticks out the wrong move, they're going for a ride.

    Anyone having luck with meaty cr.strong versus Blanka getting up?(safe-jump versus 0 frame startup is shitty), I've used it much in ST however I don't know how good it is in HD (haven't played serious Blankas). I could imagine it would trade in our favour, but reality is king.
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    there is no guaranteed tick throw so you can't "blow" the set up as if you're missing a combo. the option select lets you put in one input and get a favorable outcome no matter what your opponent does. you might say that's cheap or whatever but that's besides the point


    I thought option select was a win/win situation some time ago, until I found out that a well timed throw would stop me.
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Lol, last I checked on T.Akibas site, a standing 720 with t.hawk is impossible. Its possible with Gief but not hawk (hawk has like 3 jump frames). and dont refer me to that 4 second choppy shitty vid on youtube with the camera tilted.

    Listen, we all get it, you're pissed fei now blows even worse and cammy is still shitty. I got it. We all do.

    Im not saying I cant win with r.hawk. never did i say that. all ive been saying is that the NEW DIVE SUCKS and that the old dive was LOADS BETTER against his BAD MATCHUPS. THE NEW DIVE made the ALREADY BAD MATCHUPS WORSE and ONLY HELPED IN THE MATCHUPS HE DIDNT NEED HELP IN.

    is that clear for you? got it? i win most of my matches. the biggest problem is patient hondas (unwinnable if the honda sits in downback and ONLY uses headbutt. you cant win) and smart guiles/dj's.

    also not hating on sirlin but ive played his vega before and beat him with my hawk. id love to see him beat me down with hawk. or even better, YOU beat me down with your hawk. and yes that is a challenge to you. beat me down with hawk and ill shut up.

    Walk up dp ownz hondas soul.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    yeah cept when you realize the hitbox for hawks dp sucks and that the hitbox for hondas headbutt is fucking ginormous and will trade more often than not
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    yeah cept when you realize the hitbox for hawks dp sucks and that the hitbox for hondas headbutt is fucking ginormous and will trade more often than not

    Works fine for me XD the match still sucks though lol
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    Hey, guys.

    I've been making some pretty good finds with T.Hawk's Super. And I wanted to post them here because, well, I tried using them online yesterday, but all of my basic T.hawk skills DO NOT EXIST. So I die pathetically using Hawk.

    (And sorry if this was already posted, I didn't go back to read the entire thread.)

    But it was known, back in vanilla ST, that Hawk's motion could be "held" at times and you could press the button late and have it still register. This wasn't really useful, though, because it was really hard to have the joystick frozen on the last position that registered on the 720.

    Well, here's the thing... it ISN'T anymore. Ending on Towards is dead easy now. So what I found out is that you can actually do the hawk Super motion, hold it for like a WHOLE SECOND and still get the 720 afterwards. This allows you to do the motion farther away, and THEN walk up and super.

    Examples: I did whiff Stand Roundhouse... ROUNDHOUSE, mind you, against Ryu, buffered in the motion, and took a step and got the Super off (the Super has mad range, btw). Against people getting up, I do whiff Standing Forward as well, and walk in 720.

    (SIDE NOTE: I noticed R.Hawk's Stand Roundhouse has LESS horizontal range than vanilla Hawk's Standing Roundhouse as I was testing if I could do it on vanilla ST as well... I could whiff from much closer on HD Remix than I could in vanilla ST. That kind made me a bit sad...)

    You can do a Hawk Dive, take a step, and 720 instantly this way as well (though most people poke back because hawk's DP has so much trouble hitting sweeps). I'm sure there are lots of other fun tricks you can do with this, but for people who are actually good with Hawk on a basic level, it might be MUCH more useful for them than it was for me. Basically, you can buffer in the motion during ground games and walk up and instantly 720 now, as opposed to walking up and trying to quickly do a motion to grab. It's a small window, but much larger than you'd think and might be useful for staying out of poke range and then walking in and 720'ing at the press of a button.

    So now I end up fighting guys like Guile and Dee Jay by whiffing 360's a screen away between Fireballs. And once I get the super, I walk up and try to fight like that. If you can get lucky and do the motion right as Guile does a Crouch Forward, you MAY be able to walk in and 720 as he is recovering? Hard to do and maybe impractical, but it is an option.

    Lemme know how much mileage people get out of this trick. I wanna know if it's actually useful or not.

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

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  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Hey, guys.

    I've been making some pretty good finds with T.Hawk's Super. And I wanted to post them here because, well, I tried using them online yesterday, but all of my basic T.hawk skills DO NOT EXIST. So I die pathetically using Hawk.

    (And sorry if this was already posted, I didn't go back to read the entire thread.)

    But it was known, back in vanilla ST, that Hawk's motion could be "held" at times and you could press the button late and have it still register. This wasn't really useful, though, because it was really hard to have the joystick frozen on the last position that registered on the 720.

    Well, here's the thing... it ISN'T anymore. Ending on Towards is dead easy now. So what I found out is that you can actually do the hawk Super motion, hold it for like a WHOLE SECOND and still get the 720 afterwards. This allows you to do the motion farther away, and THEN walk up and super.

    Examples: I did whiff Stand Roundhouse... ROUNDHOUSE, mind you, against Ryu, buffered in the motion, and took a step and got the Super off (the Super has mad range, btw). Against people getting up, I do whiff Standing Forward as well, and walk in 720.

    (SIDE NOTE: I noticed R.Hawk's Stand Roundhouse has LESS horizontal range than vanilla Hawk's Standing Roundhouse as I was testing if I could do it on vanilla ST as well... I could whiff from much closer on HD Remix than I could in vanilla ST. That kind made me a bit sad...)

    You can do a Hawk Dive, take a step, and 720 instantly this way as well (though most people poke back because hawk's DP has so much trouble hitting sweeps). I'm sure there are lots of other fun tricks you can do with this, but for people who are actually good with Hawk on a basic level, it might be MUCH more useful for them than it was for me. Basically, you can buffer in the motion during ground games and walk up and instantly 720 now, as opposed to walking up and trying to quickly do a motion to grab. It's a small window, but much larger than you'd think and might be useful for staying out of poke range and then walking in and 720'ing at the press of a button.

    So now I end up fighting guys like Guile and Dee Jay by whiffing 360's a screen away between Fireballs. And once I get the super, I walk up and try to fight like that. If you can get lucky and do the motion right as Guile does a Crouch Forward, you MAY be able to walk in and 720 as he is recovering? Hard to do and maybe impractical, but it is an option.

    Lemme know how much mileage people get out of this trick. I wanna know if it's actually useful or not.

    - James

    neeeeeeaat
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    james - i may have said that earlier just in shittier wording (you seem to beat me at that all the time :P)

    yeah you can "store" the 360 motion similarly. do the motion, walk up wait a second hit jab and a 360 will come out.


    also a neat trick that will work every know and then (with or without super) is when the opponent jumps in from far and you KNOW they will either whiff their move or empty jump buffer the 360/720 motion and when they land, walk a foot forward (just barely into the 360/720 range) and hit punch. unless for whatever reason they do a move that escapes 360's, they'll get thrown.
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    I'm pretty convinced that if R. Hawk ends up being any good it will be based on a strategy of building up a full super meter before trying to fight.

    I'm still waiting for my stick to arrive (the fuck?), when it does I plan to abuse the hell out of that. With the addition of the whiff throw and the changes to the Hawk Dive getting in once without meter just doesn't have the payoff.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    ^^ not with all the motion glitches
  • MonteMonte Well-Known Member (2 ur mom) Joined: Posts: 2,807
    if anybody is bored feel free to look at some of my matches and tell me how much of a stupid poo poo face I am with T. Hawk and how I can be slightly less of as stupid poo poo face.

    EDIT: link to my youtube page incase the playlist link doesn't work http://www.youtube.com/user/MonteroGraves
  • VirtuaFighterFourVirtuaFighterFour VirtuaFighter.com Joined: Posts: 1,572
    if anybody is bored feel free to look at some of my matches and tell me how much of a stupid poo poo face I am with T. Hawk and how I can be slightly less of as stupid poo poo face.

    EDIT: link to my youtube page incase the playlist link doesn't work http://www.youtube.com/user/MonteroGraves
    I'll comment on the opening round.

    If Guile is going to throw sonic booms from standing position especially you need to dive into him.

    If Guile misses a flashkick and you're close, don't standing jab and then command throw, do the command throw immediately. If you don't think your close enough the safest bet is a fierce DP.

    And never go near a crouching Guile with a super :arazz:

    Anytime you land a standing jab or low jab right next to your opponent try for the command throw. If you time it right they need to reversal. If you time it wrong you whiff though...so get the timing right.

    Guile, or really anyone, is a tough battle for R.Hawk. Standing fierce can trade with sonic booms. But Hawk's DP has garbage hitboxes and Guile can freely toss out low forward and the DP won't hit it and he can flash kick your whiffed DPs.

    Practice getting his command throw from tick set ups. You seem to be getting close to your opponents but you're missing the command throw inputs.
    VF5:FS - Akira, Jean, Wolf, Taka
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  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    if anybody is bored feel free to look at some of my matches and tell me how much of a stupid poo poo face I am with T. Hawk and how I can be slightly less of as stupid poo poo face.

    EDIT: link to my youtube page incase the playlist link doesn't work http://www.youtube.com/user/MonteroGraves

    Try to mixup between j.jab xx Typhoon (land the hit so it's out of their throw range) and j.jab -> cr.jab xx Typhoon or nothing if you predict reversal.

    Don't do cr.roundhouse on wakeup, there are far better things such as meaty cr.strong or safe-jump jab.
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    You need a lot of work on your tick throws. The Guile's you were fighting were not too good, to win against better players you need to convert every jab into a tick throw attempt. Especially against a good Guile there is very little margin for error, if you land a low jab or jumping jab and don't anything after that's enough to lose the round.
  • ioio Joined: Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I didn't know you could 2-in-one a jumping jab into the dive. I did on accident yesterday.
    (you're == you are) != your
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I'll comment on the opening round.

    If Guile is going to throw sonic booms from standing position especially you need to dive into him.

    If Guile misses a flashkick and you're close, don't standing jab and then command throw, do the command throw immediately. If you don't think your close enough the safest bet is a fierce DP.

    And never go near a crouching Guile with a super :arazz:

    Anytime you land a standing jab or low jab right next to your opponent try for the command throw. If you time it right they need to reversal. If you time it wrong you whiff though...so get the timing right.

    Guile, or really anyone, is a tough battle for R.Hawk. Standing fierce can trade with sonic booms. But Hawk's DP has garbage hitboxes and Guile can freely toss out low forward and the DP won't hit it and he can flash kick your whiffed DPs.

    Practice getting his command throw from tick set ups. You seem to be getting close to your opponents but you're missing the command throw inputs.

    Actually you want to punish anything with super or s.mk xx hp dp, only 360 if you have no meter and are 2 far away for the s.mk xx dp, sinche the dp combo leaves you close after.
  • Rioting SoulRioting Soul Joined: Posts: 4,982 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    If my opponents are trying to low poke me after blocking dive, I do another dive as soon as I leave the ground.

    When I'm on a stick, I have an easier time doing 360's the normal way than doing it the new way(on pad or stick).
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    Pretty sure they could sweep or hit you before you had the time to jump. Never really bothered since that whole doing another dive right after is like so pointless and sets up absolutely nothing. Unless they throw out some huge laggy move, they'll just recover in time to block.
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    It works against certain low roundhouses but in general it's a good way to eat a DP. And yeah, most of the time the best you get is a bit of block damage then you're in the same position again.
  • odinodin arch enthusiast Joined: Posts: 16,148 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    how do you guys deal with bisons? he seems to be my worst matchup
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I pulled off standing 720 on a j.rh whiff today, and got alot of walk up 3602 :). That slight holding of the motion helps.

    As to the above, all you need to do is get Bison in the corner and you win. That isn't easy of course, but j.lp and j.fp are great in that match.
  • BronzefistBronzefist Spews random garbage Joined: Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    IIRC the problem with Bison is he can duck under jumping jab all day and counter with crouching fierce. I dunno how jumping fierce does against him though.
    THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A FIGHT TO THE DEATH...
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  • Moe PowellMoe Powell Nomadic Joined: Posts: 582
    i cant help but notice that someone stated that u can 360 to get out of meaty attacks??

    this statement is hella wrong as ive eaten many meaty attacks despite having done reversals. I still dont get y they made hawks 360 have a 1frame start up.
    I remember playing my friends gief and we all know about giefs tick xx spd tactics
    well, ive been grabbed out of both my reversal 360 and my reversal jab dp.
    Thankfully not all tick xx spds are timed perfectly to make this a daily occurance.

    my only question is
    does his super also have a 1frame startup???? and if so, is it invinceable?

    a trick i picked up:
    put someone in the corner and grab them with hk, after the throw u can walk underneath them crossing them. Now what i do is cr.hp for 2hits then dp. Its more so for show boating then anything.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    you're pretty dumb if you think you cant 360 out of meaties. lol why do you think fei longs and others with good meaties DONT try them on hawk and gief?

    hawks super isnt "invincible". it only comes out if its going to hit.

    that "trick" is old. you can walk under them anywhere. why would you do cr.hp and then psychic dp when you can do better shit like, cr.jab tick 360. cl.mk xx fierce dp, walk forward, crossup splash cl.mk xx fierce dp [dizzy]
  • neoKENneoKEN Joined: Posts: 115
    How do you guys fight Balrog (boxer). That guy is usually my toughest matchup with any character. His rush punches come out so quick plus he has that far range antiair headbutt.
    Personal website: http://xneoken.tripod.com
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  • odinodin arch enthusiast Joined: Posts: 16,148 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    How do you guys fight Balrog (boxer). That guy is usually my toughest matchup with any character. His rush punches come out so quick plus he has that far range antiair headbutt.

    use your pokes? cr.forward and strong are awesome. stand strong is great. stand and cr.jab work awesome. you can 360 him out of his rushes unless he spaces them well (most smart boxers do). one knockdown and you can safe jump his ass all day and he cant do jack shit about it. his headbutt is WAY too slow for any good. dont bother psychic dping. the risk/reward is NOT in your favor. cr.forward and roundhouse help this match tremendously.
  • vermifaxvermifax Joined: Posts: 4
    how far ahead can you buffer the motion for the 360? I mean can you do it at the start of a long block string, then punch or neg edge when the string ends?
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