Family man patriarchy remix (Guile strategy thread)

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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Hey, guys, I had a few of questions I was hoping someone could help me out with:

    1. I noticed that Guile can link 2 cr. MPs on characters with larger hitboxes. Does anyone happen to know exactly who this link works on and when it works?

    2. Most of the good Guile players I've seen or talked to use Flashkick as his primary anti-air. Is cr. FP really only used when you don't have time to charge the Flashkick?

    3. This is the biggie... I know that comboing into super isn't too terribly important to Guile's gameplay, but in ST, in general, I am pretty much clueless as to how to combo into any supers. Does anyone have any general advice on that? I also use Ryu and Fei-Long a bit.

    Sorry for all the fundamental questions; I've always been primarily a 3rd Strike head, so this is all really foreign to me. :) Thanks for the help!

    1.) I don't think anyone's going to have the answer to this, so I'd just test it myself if I were you

    2.) Cr. fierce is you best anti-air if you don't have your flashkick charged. Against opponents jumping in from far away though, spinning backfist is a better option.

    3.) I'd go to the Guile thread in the Super Turbo section. People talk about it on and on and on. I think there's even a thread labled something like, "How the F do you combo supers?"

    Side note: can anyone plz confirm whether what I said in my last post is correct? Still waiting on that one...
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Double Post!

    I was wondering if anyone had any good gameplans/strategies vs Akuma. In particular, is there a way to keep him from jumping your sonic booms and air fireballing? The only thing I could think of is getting him to jump late via good mixup, then asap jump towards him and fierce (or maybe forward/rh?). I tried this against my 9 year old brother in training mode and it seemed to work decently, provided that he didn't jump right when I threw it. Sometimes I'd fierce him, sometimes I'd get an air throw, sometimes i'd get a fireball in the face. But then again, he's 9. I find it hard to believe that it's not safe for Guile to throw sonic booms from 3/5 screen. I doubt this works, but does anyone have another method?
  • nothingnothing Keep calm, and stay dashing Joined: Posts: 1,700
    Any additional tips for the c. lk x3 xx flashkick combo? I guess the biggest part I'm having trouble with kara canceling the rh flashick with standing lk. Either nothing happens, I jump straight up, the standing lk comes out followed by nothing or the flashkick is blocked (In this case I'm not hearing the lk whiff sound so I'm guessing I'm not getting the kara)

    I even tried cutting it down to 2 c. lk xx flashkick thinking it might somehow be easier but I keep getting c. lkx2 xx s. lk xx flashkick for four hits instead of the kara'ed 3 hit combo.

    Since, the standing lk is coming out, that means I'm doing the kara cancel too slowly, right? Is there something wrong with my inputs?

    I'm doing: c. lk x3, (stick at neutral) st. lk~up hk.

    Is there a better way of doing it or something?
  • wolf_1wolf_1 Joined: Posts: 169
    earlier today i did a weird 2 hit wakeup overhead sonic boom combo.

    after you knock your opponent down, throw in a jab sonic boom early enough so that the tail end goes slightly behind the guy then overhead him. if timed correctly, the overhead should knock the guy back into the sonic boom.
  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG

    You can still do that with back rh.

    When you're too close back rh also gives you the god damn overhead and neutral roundhouse gives you the shitty close rh (really fucking irritating). I just use the sobat when I get that close to avoid any problems.

    More genius game design from Sirlin. :rolleyes:
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  • BattosaiBattosai Joined: Posts: 766 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    When you're too close back rh also gives you the god damn overhead and neutral roundhouse gives you the shitty close rh (really fucking irritating). I just use the sobat when I get that close to avoid any problems.

    More genius game design from Sirlin. :rolleyes:


    I think Sirlin should have given him the old AA roundhouse as neutral roundhouse from a distance.

    It worked great as AA in the old WW, CE, HF, Super. Infact I should have posted it when Sirlin was taking in ideas on his web page...damn it
  • sirblewsirblew Wretched Bogchild Joined: Posts: 132
    When you're too close back rh also gives you the god damn overhead and neutral roundhouse gives you the shitty close rh (really fucking irritating). I just use the sobat when I get that close to avoid any problems.

    More genius game design from Sirlin. :rolleyes:

    The upside down kick change was intentional and is good IMHO. This way you can be certain of an upside down kick no matter your distance from your opponent.
    I never watch TV, the shows inside my head are almost always better.

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  • sirblewsirblew Wretched Bogchild Joined: Posts: 132
    By the way has anyone found a good counter to Blanka's slide? The only counters I know for Guile are to predict and flash kick it, or to sonic boom it when Blanka starts or ends the slide, but the timing for both has to be exact. c.short trades and loses to it. Blanka's the one character that I don't have a good strategy against.
    I never watch TV, the shows inside my head are almost always better.

    SSF2THDR: Dee Jay, Guile
    SF4: Gouken, Blanka
  • BattosaiBattosai Joined: Posts: 766 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    By the way has anyone found a good counter to Blanka's slide? The only counters I know for Guile are to predict and flash kick it, or to sonic boom it when Blanka starts or ends the slide, but the timing for both has to be exact. c.short trades and loses to it. Blanka's the one character that I don't have a good strategy against.

    I use stand short or jump straight up fierce besides what you mentioned above.
  • brianbrian Joined: Posts: 765
    stand short, jump straight up fierce, and back roundhouse, as well as a correctly timed flashkick guess all beat blankas slide.

    Does anyone have a good option for after you successfully overhead dictator in the corner? Seems worthless to me cause its like you give him a "get in free" card.
  • hawaiigamer142hawaiigamer142 Joined: Posts: 614
    Any additional tips for the c. lk x3 xx flashkick combo? I guess the biggest part I'm having trouble with kara canceling the rh flashick with standing lk. Either nothing happens, I jump straight up, the standing lk comes out followed by nothing or the flashkick is blocked (In this case I'm not hearing the lk whiff sound so I'm guessing I'm not getting the kara)

    I even tried cutting it down to 2 c. lk xx flashkick thinking it might somehow be easier but I keep getting c. lkx2 xx s. lk xx flashkick for four hits instead of the kara'ed 3 hit combo.

    Since, the standing lk is coming out, that means I'm doing the kara cancel too slowly, right? Is there something wrong with my inputs?

    I'm doing: c. lk x3, (stick at neutral) st. lk~up hk.

    Is there a better way of doing it or something?

    I think a lot of it has to do with good timing. When I first started learning this combo, I always seemed to not connect the two c.lk in to the s.lk even. If anything, just make sure you do hold the lk button down after the st.lk and don't hesitate to push the stick up + hk for the flashkick. I think it can be almost instant right after the s.lk hits.
  • nothingnothing Keep calm, and stay dashing Joined: Posts: 1,700
    I think a lot of it has to do with good timing. When I first started learning this combo, I always seemed to not connect the two c.lk in to the s.lk even. If anything, just make sure you do hold the lk button down after the st.lk and don't hesitate to push the stick up + hk for the flashkick. I think it can be almost instant right after the s.lk hits.


    Thanks. I'm already holding lk after the standing lk to make sure that lk flashkick doesn't accidentally come out, but I'm still having major problems getting this combo to work right.
  • BattosaiBattosai Joined: Posts: 766 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Which Flash Kick did Sirlin say now counters Vega (Claws) slide? Is it the RH or Forward kick?

    I have only been able to play the game once and I haven't tried it yet. And there is tournament soon so I really need to be prepared for that tough match.
  • J.DJ.D EVO Staff Joined: Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    RH Flash Kick help me to hit Vega's slide on a match online but I havent tested it enough though
    anyway, Guile became my favorite char but I have been having problems dealing with Bison and cammy.
    My problem is not when Im far away, I know how to play if I have distance, but the pressure when they get a chance to get close its really annoying
    anybody has an advice on how to deal with the devil's reverse?

    I find it so weird since I dont know where is he gonna land, or if he's gonna hit me at all, or if he's gonna land for a throw

    any help?
    Fight For The Future!!
  • aegis neglectoraegis neglector Joined: Posts: 671
    I'm really sorry if this has already been mentioned somewhere else in the thread, but I was wondering how Guile combos into super with his new super motion. If there's already a thread in which it is explained, can someone point me in the direction? Thanks a lot!
    "Tek-settAAAAAAAA!!!"
  • Warrior's DreamsWarrior's Dreams 梅原 > Wong Joined: Posts: 1,292
    I think Sirlin should have given him the old AA roundhouse as neutral roundhouse from a distance.

    It worked great as AA in the old WW, CE, HF, Super. Infact I should have posted it when Sirlin was taking in ideas on his web page...damn it

    I'm pretty sure this idea was already mentioned. Guile's already got improved RH Flash Kick and SB mix up with the overhead. Classic s. RH would make him WAY too good
    You shouldn't care about the division between ST and HDR, but rather the message you are sending to tournament organizers if you stop supporting the classic style of Street Fighter II.

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  • SiYkOSiYkO aka fdsdfg Joined: Posts: 501
    RH Flash Kick help me to hit Vega's slide on a match online but I havent tested it enough though
    anyway, Guile became my favorite char but I have been having problems dealing with Bison and cammy.
    My problem is not when Im far away, I know how to play if I have distance, but the pressure when they get a chance to get close its really annoying
    anybody has an advice on how to deal with the devil's reverse?

    I find it so weird since I dont know where is he gonna land, or if he's gonna hit me at all, or if he's gonna land for a throw

    any help?

    Bison and cammy both fight kinda similarly in that they both sit on you with relentless attacks and don't want to let you out of range. The difference is that Cammy has cannon spikes to pester you with and Bison can capitilize a lot more on mistakes. There are other differences in how you play them of course, but this is the main difference.

    With Cammy a lot of the game comes with forcing her to attack from above or below. You should be keeping up with short range sonic booms (fierce for max pushback) or c.mk, and punish her spikes with the spinning backfist (make sure you ditch SB charge before going for the backfist, this can be tough to get used to). In the air, c.fierce CAN beat most everything she can do, but this is very difficult. Have flash kick ready if possible of course. If she's just waiting mid-short range, try throwing out some crouching jabs just to get her to react with something while keeping both your charges. You have to play a very reactive game against cammy to slow down her offense. If she won't stay out of the air, you simply have to get good at timing c.fierce to at least trade. It is your best friend here.

    Bison is IMO much harder. If he is close up and you guess wrong once, you can get dizzy and die. I guess the number one rule is do NOT let him close in on you. React to his headstomp with either an aerial or flash kick, or c.fierce if you have to (it will probably trade at best). Once he gets in, your one goal is to get him the **** away ASAP. You cannot survive against a good bison at close range. Roundhouse flash kick is pretty useful if you can avoid him blocking it because it will usually get you enough distance to start a runaway game. There's no real answer to his offense in the corner because this is exactly what his game is all about. You have to play safely, learn his habits, and figure out an opportunity to get back into long range.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    http://www.sirlin.net/articles/street-fighter-hd-remix-vega.html

    At the bottem of Sirlin's Vega article he says "Guile used to have no real answer to Vega repeatedly sliding. But now Guile has 2 answers: roundhouse flash kick and the new overhead."

    How does the overhead help against Vega's slide? That hitbox under Guile's upside-down makes him still extremely vulnerable to sweeps and slides. Can anyone explain this?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Bump ^
  • omniomni Joined: Posts: 476 admin
    Was killing a little bit of time today, messing around with him in training mode.

    Meaty Low Forward link Roundhouse Flash kick is now a 2 hit combo.

    Not really practical but hey - Guile's been wanting this combo for the past 15 years.

    Derek Daniels
    http://lowfierce.blogspot.com
  • Coth_XCoth_X G(x) = (3/(1-3x)) - 3 - 3x - 27x^2 Joined: Posts: 4,340
    Double Post!

    I was wondering if anyone had any good gameplans/strategies vs Akuma. In particular, is there a way to keep him from jumping your sonic booms and air fireballing? The only thing I could think of is getting him to jump late via good mixup, then asap jump towards him and fierce (or maybe forward/rh?). I tried this against my 9 year old brother in training mode and it seemed to work decently, provided that he didn't jump right when I threw it. Sometimes I'd fierce him, sometimes I'd get an air throw, sometimes i'd get a fireball in the face. But then again, he's 9. I find it hard to believe that it's not safe for Guile to throw sonic booms from 3/5 screen. I doubt this works, but does anyone have another method?

    Fireball tactics fail against akuma, because he can "fix" a jump by air fb, not to mention that the air fb pretty much guarantees him a free jump in against pretty much everyone except himself and Ken's strong dp.

    I'd avoid him if you can.
    Compare what guile has to akuma:
    all dps invincible
    invincible super
    invincible super that can be guaranteed off crouching block stun(most of the time)
    ryu type fb zoning
    huge juggle opportunities

    The only real strat is to take him fast, and keep him from getting momentum since he takes more damage then everyone else.
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  • BattosaiBattosai Joined: Posts: 766 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Was killing a little bit of time today, messing around with him in training mode.

    Meaty Low Forward link Roundhouse Flash kick is now a 2 hit combo.

    Not really practical but hey - Guile's been wanting this combo for the past 15 years.

    Derek Daniels
    http://lowfierce.blogspot.com

    Omni-In the past 15 years, Guile has been able to do the meaty low forward combos:

    1. Meaty low forward kick+ short flash kick(WW, CE, HF) Not very practical is right

    2. Meaty low forward + low strong + flash kick-All versions

    3.Meaty low forward + stand strong + flash kick (Sim, Gief, Sagat) All versions and its very a flashy combo

    4. Meaty low forward kick+ stand fierce + short flash kick(WW, CE, HF against Zangief).
  • megaultrasupermegaultrasuper Joined: Posts: 833
    Gentlemen I posit the following strategical scenario:

    You are playing my Guile.

    I am crouched mid screen. I have been doing so for at least 1 1/2 seconds.

    You are crouching away from me and have been doing so for at least 5 seconds.

    You are exactly one forward jump away from me.

    You are at 1 vitality.

    What is the best course of action?




























    If you said "Jump forward and get flashkicked like a bitch", then you would be 99% of players on the PS network.


    People seriously do this shit all the time. It's like they are pressing the "I lose" button. I LOL everytime this happens.



    Anyway, I am getting cream against Balrog. Offline I could react flashkick his rushes, but online I get maybe 25% of them.

    Good Balrogs just headbut through SB's. What is the best punish on the way down, or off of a blocked one? Maybe this is a practical spot to use low forward link flash kick?
  • CaptBritanicaCaptBritanica Joined: Posts: 21
    crossup j.LK, c.LK -> c.LK -> whiff s.LK xx FK super
    but the rest of the thread mentions other characters' combos.

    I have a question; and please forgive my ignorance and scrubbiness. In the above cross-up what does "whiff" mean?

    I understand the mechanics of a whiff (it is: making an opponent miss or purposely missing a move yourself, correct?) but how do you use it in a combo?

    Also, what does "xx" mean? I've tried looking it up in the Wiki page but was unable to find an explanation. If I had to wager a guess, I'd say xx means a slight pause?

    Thank you in advance for answering my elementary questions.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Still waiting to an answer to this question:

    http://www.sirlin.net/articles/street-fighter-hd-remix-vega.html

    At the bottem of Sirlin's Vega article he says "Guile used to have no real answer to Vega repeatedly sliding. But now Guile has 2 answers: roundhouse flash kick and the new overhead."

    How does the overhead help against Vega's slide? That hitbox under Guile's upside-down makes him still extremely vulnerable to sweeps and slides. Testing it in training, the slide beat out the overhead every time. Can anyone explain this?
  • rainbowcemeteryrainbowcemetery Joined: Posts: 37
    At the bottem of Sirlin's Vega article he says "Guile used to have no real answer to Vega repeatedly sliding. But now Guile has 2 answers: roundhouse flash kick and the new overhead."

    Maybe it was a different build of the game when sirlin wrote that and he hasn't updated it.

    Didn't he say that the overhead could be used to go over low tiger shots at one point which is why they extended the hitbox? I think it's more balanced that you can be sweeped but it still looks totally weird!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Maybe it was a different build of the game when sirlin wrote that and he hasn't updated it.

    Didn't he say that the overhead could be used to go over low tiger shots at one point which is why they extended the hitbox? I think it's more balanced that you can be sweeped but it still looks totally weird!

    I'm pretty sure though that all the articles on his sight now have been updated to the current build of the game. Idk, it just seems as it is now it is clearly not and anti-slide move.
  • sirblewsirblew Wretched Bogchild Joined: Posts: 132
    Anyway, I am getting cream against Balrog. Offline I could react flashkick his rushes, but online I get maybe 25% of them.

    Good Balrogs just headbut through SB's. What is the best punish on the way down, or off of a blocked one? Maybe this is a practical spot to use low forward link flash kick?

    Keep him at the other side of the screen with sonic booms. Mix them up with slow and fast, and don't make the timing predictable. If he gets in close try to time a flashkick correctly to knock him down then get away and rinse, repeat.
    I never watch TV, the shows inside my head are almost always better.

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  • AudioCGAudioCG Bang The Machine Joined: Posts: 877
    Chun Li, Help!

    Ok, booms get jumped on reaction, and Chun Lis jump ins seem to really mess up Guile. (9/10 she jumps in too fast for me to have charge, cr.fp gets tagged)

    I get stuffed outta everything in a matchup with a smart Chun, any tips?
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Chun Li, Help!

    Ok, booms get jumped on reaction, and Chun Lis jump ins seem to really mess up Guile. (9/10 she jumps in too fast for me to have charge, cr.fp gets tagged)

    I get stuffed outta everything in a matchup with a smart Chun, any tips?

    For a long time, I didn't understand how to use Guile's cr. fierce as an anti-air. Even if you start it early, it still gets stuffed by just about everything. However, after screwing around with my brother in training, I realized that it has much more priority in its first attacking frames. Done correctly, it will trade with a j. rh or any other jump in attack. However, I realized that the trade is not in Guile's favor. "How's that gonna help?" thought I. Then I realized why this technique is so effective. You can choose to do the cr. fierce early or late. Your opponent doesn't have that option. If they do their rh early, they'll whiff because you're crouching. You can then punish them with a cr. fierce or whatever you want really. So mix it up. The first jump in or so, do the cr. fierce late and trade. Then do one early and you'll clean hit them as they won't be able to start up their attack on reaction.

    Edit: That's why most opponents won't jump your sonic booms. The only time they'll jump is when they anticipate and jump right when you throw it. This disables your ability to throw a early cr. fierce. Blocking is always an option, but doing the trade will put some distance between you and you'll be able to start a sonic boom before they return to the bround. Chun has a pretty quick jump, so you might have to resort to blocking more frequently if she gets a good start on her jump in.
  • BattosaiBattosai Joined: Posts: 766 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Chun Li, Help!

    Ok, booms get jumped on reaction, and Chun Lis jump ins seem to really mess up Guile. (9/10 she jumps in too fast for me to have charge, cr.fp gets tagged)

    I get stuffed outta everything in a matchup with a smart Chun, any tips?

    You got to use Neutral stand boot Forward kick as a AA against chun, as soon as you hit her with it immediatley jump towards her with short or forward kick and then c. jab + sonic boom then low forward. If she jumps over you use standing jab and or you can just take a step past her jump in and then throw her when she lands
  • AudioCGAudioCG Bang The Machine Joined: Posts: 877
    Both very interesting tricks, thanks for the input, will put both into practice tonight.
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  • AudioCGAudioCG Bang The Machine Joined: Posts: 877
    stand short, jump straight up fierce, and back roundhouse, as well as a correctly timed flashkick guess all beat blankas slide.

    Does anyone have a good option for after you successfully overhead dictator in the corner? Seems worthless to me cause its like you give him a "get in free" card.

    To stuff the Knee Press?

    Back Jab and Neut Short can stuff (I have done this with both so I know it works), from there you can go into most of Guiles corner antics (No boom on N.sht due to lost charge).

    And if you are really, REALLY on the ball you can do the little N.shrt into FK (Hard as fuck with just enough charge time, but I have done it a couple of times, so I know it works).

    Generally, if I get Dictator in a corner, I abuse him with tick throws.
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  • FreshOJFreshOJ It's the God in me.. Joined: Posts: 1,485

    Also, has anyone noticed that jump forward seems to crossup alot? Not sure if this was a documented upgrade, but it happened to me a good few times last night (against Balrog of all characters) and that is not something that was easy to do in ST.

    I don't know if anyone followed this up, but I was just messing around with various characters' crossups that used to work on SNES SSF2 (yes, I know) on the CCC2 version of ST and jumping forward crosses up pretty well on a standing Ken. (The hitbox seems to be right under Guile's back boot.) Unfortunately, I couldn't do extensive testing against other characters, but I figured if it crosses up Ken, it'll cross up anybody. I'll have to use a joystick next time so that I can reliably try to combo off of it. I was able to test crossups with everyone except Boxer, Claw, Sagat, Dictator, and Akuma, so I'll be posting those in their respective threads.

    Anyway, something for you HD Remix heads to try out. I *will* get this game eventually. It's too good not to.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I was hoping some experienced Guile players could help me sort this out:

    What's the best normals to use on your opponent after following up a sonic boom that is safe, puts distance between you and your opponent, and gets your charge back? I remember reading somewhere that cr. strong, cr. forward, sonic boom is the best, as the forward will create distance and the strong will give you enough blockstun to get the forward without getting stuffed. Using the block stun formula for a medium hit of 16-(hitting frames + recovery frames) you get a 4 frame block stun. Guile's foward takes 8 frames to start up. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this mean that this is safe as long as your opponent doesn't have 4 or less frames on the start up on their attack? Wouldn't their attack also have to have as high priority as your forward as well? I noticed Ken and Ryu have 4 startup frames on their sweeps, so would this trade, or would they get a clean hit? If this isn't safe, wouldn't it be a good idea to throw a sobat kick after the cr. strong on occasion to keep them honest?
  • AudioCGAudioCG Bang The Machine Joined: Posts: 877
    I was hoping some experienced Guile players could help me sort this out:

    What's the best normals to use on your opponent after following up a sonic boom that is safe, puts distance between you and your opponent, and gets your charge back? I remember reading somewhere that cr. strong, cr. forward, sonic boom is the best, as the forward will create distance and the strong will give you enough blockstun to get the forward without getting stuffed. Using the block stun formula for a medium hit of 16-(hitting frames + recovery frames) you get a 4 frame block stun. Guile's foward takes 8 frames to start up. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this mean that this is safe as long as your opponent doesn't have 4 or less frames on the start up on their attack? Wouldn't their attack also have to have as high priority as your forward as well? I noticed Ken and Ryu have 4 startup frames on their sweeps, so would this trade, or would they get a clean hit? If this isn't safe, wouldn't it be a good idea to throw a sobat kick after the cr. strong on occasion to keep them honest?

    Im not sure on the frame data, but if they are in the corner, back roundhouse (step kick) is another good option, if done right it seems to keep them in hit stun. I use this in conjuction with cr. forward, cr. mp, fwd. roundhouse, boom to keep a constant barrage, and keep my opponent guessing, and in a massive amount of hit stun.
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  • AudioCGAudioCG Bang The Machine Joined: Posts: 877
    You got to use Neutral stand boot Forward kick as a AA against chun, as soon as you hit her with it immediatley jump towards her with short or forward kick and then c. jab + sonic boom then low forward. If she jumps over you use standing jab and or you can just take a step past her jump in and then throw her when she lands

    Having a heck of a hard time with this option (got some decent results from Cr. Frc though).

    Do you have to go neutral then hit Fwd really, REALLY late?
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I was hoping some experienced Guile players could help me sort this out:

    What's the best normals to use on your opponent after following up a sonic boom that is safe, puts distance between you and your opponent, and gets your charge back? I remember reading somewhere that cr. strong, cr. forward, sonic boom is the best, as the forward will create distance and the strong will give you enough blockstun to get the forward without getting stuffed. Using the block stun formula for a medium hit of 16-(hitting frames + recovery frames) you get a 4 frame block stun. Guile's foward takes 8 frames to start up. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this mean that this is safe as long as your opponent doesn't have 4 or less frames on the start up on their attack? Wouldn't their attack also have to have as high priority as your forward as well? I noticed Ken and Ryu have 4 startup frames on their sweeps, so would this trade, or would they get a clean hit? If this isn't safe, wouldn't it be a good idea to throw a sobat kick after the cr. strong on occasion to keep them honest?

    I tested the jab sonic boom, cr. strong, cr. forward, sonic boom vs Ken, my findings are as follows:

    1.) My first observation was that the block stun from the initial sonic boom is not enough to gaurantee that you'll get the cr. strong out in time. However, if you mix this in with tick throws and they go to stuff you, they'll get thrown. Because you have to get so close to do the cr. strong, it will be somewhat difficult for them to know when your going for a throw or the strong.

    2.) As the frame data and the testing confirmed, the block stun from the cr. strong does not make the cr. forward totally safe. Cr. shorts can trade with it, and it appears the sweep might be able to clean hit it. However, if you mix this in with the occasional sobat kick, you can clean hit them if they attempt stuff you (you will lose your charge though). In addition to this, trying to stuff your cr. forward can be difficult for them because of the unusually long block stun from the cr. strong.

    3.) As the frame data and the testing shows once again, the cr. strong and cr. forward do not give you enough time to fully charge your sonic boom. You must delay it for tiny tiny tiny bit of time before throwing the sonic boom.

    Overall, this appears to be a highly effective follow up to a slow sonic boom. Maybe throw in an overhead now or then or some other cr. normals just to mix things up more. It is critical that every Guile player undertands their options here. One might question whether it is ever wise to follow up a sonic boom, as many believe that Guile is better off turtling and charging his next boom/fk. This brings me to the next part of my rant.

    I would agree that Guile is better off charging his next boom/fk then going on the offensive, if it were not for one thing; the corner. When Guile's trapped in the corner, he loses some of his long distance no-fk anti-airs such as his back fist or cr. forward because he cannot move back just out of range. The corner also allows you to get stuck in a fireball trap, and it keeps you from moving away from your opponent after getting hit or blocking a projectile, making it easier to combo/preassure you. Therefore, I believe it is wise to try to reclaim some ground every now and then with a slow sonic boom and push them back with the above series, keeping you out of the corner.

    These observations/theories are part of my developing understanding of Guile. If anyone finds fault in any part of this post, please post.
  • faux123faux123 Tryin' Cammy Harder Joined: Posts: 1,069
    I tested the jab sonic boom, cr. strong, cr. forward, sonic boom vs Ken, my findings are as follows:

    1.) My first observation was that the block stun from the initial sonic boom is not enough to gaurantee that you'll get the cr. strong out in time. However, if you mix this in with tick throws and they go to stuff you, they'll get thrown. Because you have to get so close to do the cr. strong, it will be somewhat difficult for them to know when your going for a throw or the strong.

    2.) As the frame data and the testing confirmed, the block stun from the cr. strong does not make the cr. forward totally safe. Cr. shorts can trade with it, and it appears the sweep might be able to clean hit it. However, if you mix this in with the occasional sobat kick, you can clean hit them if they attempt stuff you (you will lose your charge though). In addition to this, trying to stuff your cr. forward can be difficult for them because of the unusually long block stun from the cr. strong.

    3.) As the frame data and the testing shows once again, the cr. strong and cr. forward do not give you enough time to fully charge your sonic boom. You must delay it for tiny tiny tiny bit of time before throwing the sonic boom.

    Overall, this appears to be a highly effective follow up to a slow sonic boom. Maybe throw in an overhead now or then or some other cr. normals just to mix things up more. It is critical that every Guile player undertands their options here. One might question whether it is ever wise to follow up a sonic boom, as many believe that Guile is better off turtling and charging his next boom/fk. This brings me to the next part of my rant.

    I would agree that Guile is better off charging his next boom/fk then going on the offensive, if it were not for one thing; the corner. When Guile's trapped in the corner, he loses some of his long distance no-fk anti-airs such as his back fist or cr. forward because he cannot move back just out of range. The corner also allows you to get stuck in a fireball trap, and it keeps you from moving away from your opponent after getting hit or blocking a projectile, making it easier to combo/preassure you. Therefore, I believe it is wise to try to reclaim some ground every now and then with a slow sonic boom and push them back with the above series, keeping you out of the corner.

    These observations/theories are part of my developing understanding of Guile. If anyone finds fault in any part of this post, please post.

    Yeah, you hit the nail regarding Guile and corner. As a constant pressuring Cammy player, if I trapped a Guile player in the corner I have 90% chance of winning. A good Guile will always try to avoid that corner trap by creeping forward with a slow/med sonic booms followed with s.mk/f.mk or f.hk to gain back some ground before re-charging another boom even if those moves don't connect.
    Trapped Guile cannot safely use c.mk to tick or even trade, corner c.hk followed by sonic boom is a bad combo due to well timed jump ins or higher priority low kicks/attacks.
    Visit WWW.CANONSPIKE.COM for complete joystick modding tutorials :sweat:
    :mp:+:mk::r::r::dp::hp::hk::mp:+:mk::r::r::dp::hk::mp:+:mk::l::l::qcf::qcf::3k: FTW!
    http://www.youtube.com/user/faux123
    Syxx573 - "Charge characters can never reach their full potential...because they're always holding back"
  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Im not sure on the frame data, but if they are in the corner, back roundhouse (step kick) is another good option, if done right it seems to keep them in hit stun. I use this in conjuction with cr. forward, cr. mp, fwd. roundhouse, boom to keep a constant barrage, and keep my opponent guessing, and in a massive amount of hit stun.

    Step kick would be a fine option if you didn't run the risk of getting his shitty close roundhouse or the overhead from that close :rolleyes:.
    My youtube channel (various MVC3 vids etc.):

    http://www.youtube.com/user/CrouchStrong?feature=mhsn
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