E. Honda is a beast, you know it! (aka Honda thread)

dbostickdbostick probed in hadoukenJoined: Posts: 1,014
I'm sorry, I didn't see the other thread. (looks stupid and drunk)

Comments

  • thepinochthepinoch DJpinoch (cuz im a dj) Joined: Posts: 50
    E. honda is the best
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,710
    Quite a lot of threads in HDR today.

    Honda is an extremely momentum-based characters. You have to learn when to play patient and when to rush that shit down.
  • CWheezyCWheezy Joined: Posts: 889
    Pinoch just necro'd them from 2008
  • Super1NYCSuper1NYC Superior Fighters 1nc (SF1) Joined: Posts: 612
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,247
    I'm curious, how does Honda fares in HDr compared to ST ? is he better, worse, the same ? I'm especially interested how does he against fireball characters that used to run a train on him in ST - are Sirlin's changes helping him ? Any significant difference ? what about his good matches ?


  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,710
    Emanuelb wrote: »
    I'm curious, how does Honda fares in HDr compared to ST ? is he better, worse, the same ? I'm especially interested how does he against fireball characters that used to run a train on him in ST - are Sirlin's changes helping him ? Any significant difference ? what about his good matches ?

    He's played much more differently. Hands is a MUCH easier input in HDR, which makes it easier to perform, even if the damage was reduced. Jab headbutt is a great tool at close/mid-range game to counter fireballs since he goes through fireballs, but can't be rely upon solely to counter the zoning game. Just another tool in his arsenal. His ochio got nerfed in the sense that you can no longer do repeated loops in the corner, but it leaves him close enough to still maintain close-range pressure in the follow-up.

    Overall, his ability to do burst damage and stun has been nerfed, but he's given a lot more neutral game tools. Honda players seem either excited for his HDR changes, or 'meh' about it. Hasn't really affected his tier placement too much.
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,168
    edited July 2013
    Emanuelb wrote: »
    I'm curious, how does Honda fares in HDr compared to ST ? is he better, worse, the same ? I'm especially interested how does he against fireball characters that used to run a train on him in ST - are Sirlin's changes helping him ? Any significant difference ? what about his good matches ?

    I would say that his changes make his matchups play a bit differently, but not necessarily better. changes are definitely significant, but again, no significant help. eg. honda vs chun. honda can headbutt through chun's fireball. And each time i see it in HDR i get beat but then i can remember. I can walk up throw.

    So it'll fool people who don't know the matchups, but at higher levels, most, if not all, of his "advantages" have answers to them.
    IMO, it makes him SLIGHTLY better simply, because your opponent needs a bit more focus because they have a few more things to react to.

    but they can definitely be reacted to.

    For the record, if honda is close enough so his headbutt hits your character while throwing a fireball. He would have hit your character without his jab headbutt buff.

    maybe he loses a trade here and there though.

    And inching with the buff from full screen. yeah, generally safe. but he had other ways to inch from full screen anyway, and that inch will get easily knocked back, just as before, so again, play can be different. but no significant overall change in matchup scores.
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
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  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,247
    That's very interesting. I read about Sirlin's changes and how he tried to make Honda less loopsided. With all those changes you would think he would be quite different, interesting to see that he matchups didn't change much with all the changes.


  • RandomRandom Joined: Posts: 264
    I think the jab headbutt going through fireballs is pretty significant.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,710
    Random wrote: »
    I think the jab headbutt going through fireballs is pretty significant.

    It's really not. Jab headbutt doesn't have much range, and you'd have to do it as a guess to punish the extended limbs on a shoto's fireball. A whiffed headbutt is a free punish for anyone with half decent reactions.
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    Jab Torpedo doesn't help a lot, but it does help a little. Especially from full screen, it's tough to punish Honda with Ryu, Ken, Sagat and Dee Jay. But against fireball characters that can walk fast like Chun Li and Guile, it's pretty much useless (and Dhalsim too cuz he can punish with his limbs). But when I go back to ST and play Old/New Honda I find myself wishing that it did go through fireballs, at least as an extra option.
  • RandomRandom Joined: Posts: 264
    ^ Exactly. The more viable options someone has the better (for them anyway). I'm not saying it's going to put him above Akuma or anything.

    Also, off-topic and probably nobody cares, but this marks my 100th post. Come a long way from smashing controllers, lol. (Well, I still want to...)
  • ExposedDExposedD Persona 5 Joined: Posts: 6,226
    It is significant in my opinion. Imagine that you are playing as shoto vs a HDR "turbaaaow" honda that reacts to fireballs with the jab headbutt and then holds them buttons down. If you are lucky you will have recovered but if not you will be eating instant hundredthousandhandslaps and health WILL be going down :) lol

    ofcourse this is something that only hdr honda gets away with.
    Persona 5
  • mad possummad possum Joined: Posts: 1,091
    The jab headbutt is only usefull from very specific ranges. It doesn't seem very significant while you're playing HDR, but when I'm playing regular ST I keep finding myself saying "jab headbutt would have been usefull there" LOL.

    His Super actually being usefull is very significant, though. In ST, for example, Shotos don't care if you charge you're Super, they just keep chucking fireballs because they know even if you catch them and go through one and hit them they can still hit you after that one hit, for a knockdown no less and usually more damage. In HDR they have to at least respect Honda's Super and they can't just throw fireballs at will. That helps at least a little in getting in.

    His Ochio changes don't change too much, them doing less stun than in ST is a big nerf, but the change to the bounce afterwards isn't a big deal, you can't "loop" it in the corner (never considered it a true loop because they can always at the least reversal throw to get out) but it does leave them in the corner and you in a safe, prime position to keep pressuring them. It some match ups I think it actually works out better that way.

    The HHS changes are a wash, it's easier to do (especially Fierce Hands) but they are easier for your opponent to hit you out of, so meh. It is much easier to do combos involving HHS in HDR (which lead to lots of interesting set ups) however (in fact it's very hard to go back to pulling them off in ST after years of playing HDR I've found, sigh.).
    GGPO name : madpossum
  • RandomRandom Joined: Posts: 264
    ^ Is there anyone in HDR that the jab headbutt is particularly useful against?
  • Sweet PoisonSweet Poison Knowledge is power. Joined: Posts: 981
    They should have toned the damage on Honda. It is ridiculous and chip damage from HHS is stupid. Not every character has a reversal for that crap. :)

    Hi possum. :)
    My hunger's never satisfied. Knowledge is what fuels me.
  • mad possummad possum Joined: Posts: 1,091
    Hey Poison, LOL. Some characters can't do much to stop meaty HHS on wakeup, true, but everyone has moves to stop it clean when he's using it as a poke (Dhalsim's crouching jab, for example). And he needs that big damage, in most matches he only has a few seconds to get his damage in, the other 90% of the match he's blocking fireballs, LOL.

    Random - it's probably most useful against Shotos and Sagat. There's a range against Shotos where you recover just outside of their reach and you can usually catch them with HHS as they whiff a crouching HK. It's also useful up close where if you get a good read on them you can anticipate and use it to get a knockdown. You can use forward/back + HK in the same situation but that tends to trade with their fireballs if you don't stuff them completely.

    Against Sagat it's useful because his arms stick out so far when he throws Tigers. He already has to worry about Fierce Headbutts going over low shots and then when you're in range he has to worry about jab ones going through high ones. Just watch your range, if the jab headbutt whiffs then Sagat's crouching roundhouse has really good range so you're probably getting knocked down.
    GGPO name : madpossum
  • RandomRandom Joined: Posts: 264
    The massive chip damage doesn't bother me as much as the reach does. I'd gladly double the chip damage to reduce the amount he flies forward.

    Interesting information about the Sagat/Honda matchup, thanks.
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