SO MANY scrub players....

12467

Comments

  • AlbedoAlbedo Is a legs man. Joined: Posts: 209
    also a good player is one who wins matches consistently, not one who does the coolest technical shit. you can play one of those skateboarding games if you want that

    I quoted a video the best explained what I was trying to say on this matter.... where was it... oh yeah here:

    Daigo won the match, but he was able to do the "coolest technical shit" while doing it. THIS is what I was talking about.
  • FreshOJFreshOJ It's the God in me.. Joined: Posts: 1,485
    I quoted a video the best explained what I was trying to say on this matter.... where was it... oh yeah here:

    Daigo won the match, but he was able to do the "coolest technical shit" while doing it. THIS is what I was talking about.

    I didn't follow the link, but I can only guess that this is the infamous "The Beast Is Unleashed" full-parry of Chun Li's SA2. Daigo's been doing stuff like that for a while in other games, granted, and skillful finishes do tend to make for the most exciting matches, and I love me some skillful finishes...

    ...but you're missing the point.

    How was that skillful finish created? Off of a noticable mistake (no offense to Justin Wong, who easily has the credentials to prove he's a great player, but...yeah...a super flash announces a super at least a second in advance) that also involves a gameplay feature that, frankly, a lot of people have called broken, myself included.

    Any mistake can be capitalized upon in a variety of ways. Just because *you* deem that way *unskillful* doesn't mean that it doesn't earn you the 'W' and, in Daigo's case, the ***PRIZE MONEY***!!!

    Read my post again. It's a different mentality and, frankly, a different level. You can choose to go up the stairs or you can choose to be thrown to death whenever someone who's added mindgames to their skill set waltzes into your room.

    Your choice. Tell your friends. While you're at it, y'all read David Sirlin's book "Playing To Win". Rose's low strong...52 times? Boring...but it won...and it *was* counterable, too.
    Onaje Everett
    Still in S.D., representing the Almighty.
    READ MY FAQ!!! (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/file/939066/56195)
  • AlbedoAlbedo Is a legs man. Joined: Posts: 209
    My friend, I was once like you. The fact of the matter is that you need to substitute your use of "casual" for "lazy" because that's exactly what kind of thinking and playing you're doing. I know...lazy seems like fun because it doesn't take much effort...however, when you start *thinking* about how to counter stuff that you deem to be "cheap", it's *then and only then* that you realize that this game has a wonderful and enduring depth of play that has kept it going for as long as it has.

    It's called...the yomi layer...also known as "the mind game layer". When you start developing this aspect of the game, it becomes that much more fun. After all, it's only when you get people to let you throw them that you can say stuff like "Fooled you!", "Gotcha!", "Wake up!", "Where are you going?!", and, of course, "Psyche your mind!" :) Aren't many of the games that have lasted throughout time based on out-thinking your opponent?

    So, in a tribute to that one-hit wonder group called "Onyx", you can get with this (yomi) or you can get with that (lazy, mindless fighter), we'll choose to get with this...'cause this is where it's at...

    ...and there's nothing that you can do about it...except get better.

    The choice is yours. This could be your turning point, like it was mine. Think about it.

    I get what you're saying, and thanks for replying with some productive criticism. I dunno if "lazy" is the right word either.... cuz to me, spamming fireballs, and turtling seems more lazy to me then someone attempting a cross up and nailing them with a 3 hit combo. Timing and positioning your character to do a proper cross up and nailing them with a combo requires more time and practice to pull off rather then spamming fireballs. YES YES I know that's all fancy useless shit to do in a match.... but I see this stuff getting pulled off in tournament matches, and these guys are playing to win and actually WIN. So I don't where people get off by saying all that technical stuff is "useless".

    It's clear that no matter what I say, people are gonna refute it anyways... because all you elitists smite down on people who can't see it in a different perspective without even trying to logically explain it or ending off in stupid petty remarks. I thought SRK was better then this.
  • AlbedoAlbedo Is a legs man. Joined: Posts: 209
    I didn't follow the link, but I can only guess that this is the infamous "The Beast Is Unleashed" full-parry of Chun Li's SA2. Daigo's been doing stuff like that for a while in other games, granted, and skillful finishes do tend to make for the most exciting matches, and I love me some skillful finishes...

    ...but you're missing the point.

    How was that skillful finish created? Off of a noticable mistake (no offense to Justin Wong, who easily has the credentials to prove he's a great player, but...yeah...a super flash announces a super at least a second in advance) that also involves a gameplay feature that, frankly, a lot of people have called broken, myself included.

    Any mistake can be capitalized upon in a variety of ways. Just because *you* deem that way *unskillful* doesn't mean that it doesn't earn you the 'W' and, in Daigo's case, the ***PRIZE MONEY***!!!

    Read my post again. It's a different mentality and, frankly, a different level. You can choose to go up the stairs or you can choose to be thrown to death whenever someone who's added mindgames to their skill set waltzes into your room.

    Your choice. Tell your friends. While you're at it, y'all read David Sirlin's book "Playing To Win". Rose's low strong...52 times? Boring...but it won...and it *was* counterable, too.

    No that was not Diago's full parry clip. Making a post like that without even seeing the link?
  • FreshOJFreshOJ It's the God in me.. Joined: Posts: 1,485
    I get what you're saying, and thanks for replying with some productive criticism. I dunno if "lazy" is the right word either.... cuz to me, spamming fireballs, and turtling seems more lazy to me then someone attempting a cross up and nailing them with a 3 hit combo. Timing and positioning your character to do a proper cross up and nailing them with a combo requires more time and practice to pull off rather then spamming fireballs. YES YES I know that's all fancy useless shit to do in a match.... but I see this stuff getting pulled off in tournament matches, and these guys are playing to win and actually WIN. So I don't where people get off by saying all that technical stuff is "useless".

    Again...remember...I was you once. "Lazy" is the right word. Spamming fireballs and turtling, while I despise such practices, are tactics that are easily countered. If you want your opponent to stop doing it, you have to make them by countering it! That requires mental effort on your part.

    See...that's the thing...you're too busy being focused on what other people are doing to you. How about you focus on what you're doing? That's the only thing you can truly control. When you know what you're doing, *then* you'll be able to take control and dictate the match. Then...you'll win more and the people that annoy you will become the people you cause to raise *their* game!

    How's that sound? You could actually get better and make other people better at the same time. The choice is yours.
    It's clear that no matter what I say, people are gonna refute it anyways... because all you elitists smite down on people who can't see it in a different perspective without even trying to logically explain it or ending off in stupid petty remarks. I thought SRK was better then this.

    I don't think I'm being an elitist here. If I was, I would've flamed you and said nothing else. I'm actually trying to help you here. You obviously don't know my reputation as a poster on the net for 13+ years...otherwise, you'd know different. You can Google my name if you really need more proof that I'm trying to help you, but the real proof will be if you actually *try* what we're telling you.

    You did notice how many people are telling you the same thing, right?

    Anyway, since logical is what I do, lemme help you.

    If people spam fireballs, jump and combo them while they recover.
    If people turtle, you absolutely *have* to out-think, out-poke, and out-throw them.
    If people throw, since you can't be thrown while in block stun or hit stun, you're in a neutral state and, therefore, you **CAN** do something about it. You can throw them, use a reversal special or super move that starts with invincible/unthrowable/aerial frames, or poke/combo them if they mis-time their throw attempt.

    We're refuting what you have to say because we know what works. You can either use it or keep getting beat down. Questions?
    Onaje Everett
    Still in S.D., representing the Almighty.
    READ MY FAQ!!! (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/file/939066/56195)
  • FreshOJFreshOJ It's the God in me.. Joined: Posts: 1,485
    No that was not Diago's full parry clip. Making a post like that without even seeing the link?

    C'est la vie. I was wrong about the clip...but what I said about capitalizing on mistakes wasn't. I noticed you didn't address that.

    Maybe the problem really is like I said. You're not willing to look at yourself. You'll never progress that way.
    Onaje Everett
    Still in S.D., representing the Almighty.
    READ MY FAQ!!! (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/file/939066/56195)
  • SweetJohnnyVSweetJohnnyV Streets ahead! Joined: Posts: 1,981 mod
    Albedo, the thing to realize is that these are all just tools. Normal moves, throws, combos, cross-ups, supers. Each one is important, but you have to make proper use of these at all times.

    In higher-level SF2 play, combos and supers and all kinds of "fancy" stuff are used, but they're the exception, not the norm. You should be good at doing all of the fancy stuff, so in the rare occasion that someone screws up badly and leaves themselves wide open you can capitalize on it.

    The irony is that this is also precisely why many good players play most of their matches cautiously, using boring moves like well range pokes and throws. Sure, you could try to go jumping in for the big combo every time, but against other good players, that'll just get you killed. They'll do a "simple" counter-move every time you try.

    The general gist of playing better is to do mostly safe attacks, and then punish your opponent HARD when he gives you an opening. If you watch that vid you posted again closely, you'll notice a lot of what Daigo was doing was relatively safe. While it may look like a crazy balls-out rushdown, once he landed the first hit of almost every rush in, most of the subsequent attacks were more or less safe, whether they were blocked or not. And when it did hit, bam! Big damage!

    Also, take note that he won the 1st round of the 2nd game almost entirely with throws. That's the great thing about throws. It keeps the opponent guessing as to what you're gonna do next. Pokes? A big combo? A throw? Unless you mix throws heavily into your game, there's no guess work. The opponent just blocks, every time.

    You can only play effectively when you truly make use of all these tools. And when you do that, the game does become deeper and more fun. If you can't reverse or block these things, it may seem shallow. But it's not. Instead you need to learn how to counter those things, or better yet not get put into that position to begin with.

    There's a lot more to the game than just throws and combos, but hopefully you get the gist. At the end of the day, this is a one on one game. The "fun" comes from using all your tools and trying to outsmart the other guy. Basing too much of your game off any one tool or arbitrarily crippling your game by not doing something only makes the game more shallow. It may be more fun to watch, since it might look more "crazy", but I certainly think it's less fun to play that way.

    Go balls out! Give it your all! That's when the game becomes deep and fun :wgrin:
  • FreshOJFreshOJ It's the God in me.. Joined: Posts: 1,485
    ^^

    That's real talk right there...and I'd rep you if I could.
    Onaje Everett
    Still in S.D., representing the Almighty.
    READ MY FAQ!!! (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/file/939066/56195)
  • GensouGoroshiGensouGoroshi Streamer/Media Manager at Final Bout Productions Joined: Posts: 692
    I'd rep you both if I could
    @DaGodhand & @Final_Bout on Twitter
    Streaming @ twitch.tv/dagodhand & twitch.tv/final_bout
  • AlbedoAlbedo Is a legs man. Joined: Posts: 209
    Again...remember...I was you once. "Lazy" is the right word. Spamming fireballs and turtling, while I despise such practices, are tactics that are easily countered. If you want your opponent to stop doing it, you have to make them by countering it! That requires mental effort on your part.

    See...that's the thing...you're too busy being focused on what other people are doing to you. How about you focus on what you're doing? That's the only thing you can truly control. When you know what you're doing, *then* you'll be able to take control and dictate the match. Then...you'll win more and the people that annoy you will become the people you cause to raise *their* game!

    How's that sound? You could actually get better and make other people better at the same time. The choice is yours.



    I don't think I'm being an elitist here. If I was, I would've flamed you and said nothing else. I'm actually trying to help you here. You obviously don't know my reputation as a poster on the net for 13+ years...otherwise, you'd know different. You can Google my name if you really need more proof that I'm trying to help you, but the real proof will be if you actually *try* what we're telling you.

    You did notice how many people are telling you the same thing, right?

    Anyway, since logical is what I do, lemme help you.

    If people spam fireballs, jump and combo them while they recover.
    If people turtle, you absolutely *have* to out-think, out-poke, and out-throw them.
    If people throw, since you can't be thrown while in block stun or hit stun, you're in a neutral state and, therefore, you **CAN** do something about it. You can throw them, use a reversal special or super move that starts with invincible/unthrowable/aerial frames, or poke/combo them if they mis-time their throw attempt.

    We're refuting what you have to say because we know what works. You can either use it or keep getting beat down. Questions?

    Sorry OJ, that particular comment wasn't exactly aimed at you, I'm talkin about the other people who replied, you actually have very intellectual responses, and I thank you again for them. But I really get what you're saying, and I already have started to play like that, and getting much better at it, but still....I think a part of me just doesn't want to let go of how Street Fighter used to be played around when I was growing up. I think that's just the beauty of Street Fighter, the people evolve and shape out what the game turns out to play.
  • AlbedoAlbedo Is a legs man. Joined: Posts: 209
    Albedo, the thing to realize is that these are all just tools. Normal moves, throws, combos, cross-ups, supers. Each one is important, but you have to make proper use of these at all times.

    In higher-level SF2 play, combos and supers and all kinds of "fancy" stuff are used, but they're the exception, not the norm. You should be good at doing all of the fancy stuff, so in the rare occasion that someone screws up badly and leaves themselves wide open you can capitalize on it.

    The irony is that this is also precisely why many good players play most of their matches cautiously, using boring moves like well range pokes and throws. Sure, you could try to go jumping in for the big combo every time, but against other good players, that'll just get you killed. They'll do a "simple" counter-move every time you try.

    The general gist of playing better is to do mostly safe attacks, and then punish your opponent HARD when he gives you an opening. If you watch that vid you posted again closely, you'll notice a lot of what Daigo was doing was relatively safe. While it may look like a crazy balls-out rushdown, once he landed the first hit of almost every rush in, most of the subsequent attacks were more or less safe, whether they were blocked or not. And when it did hit, bam! Big damage!

    Also, take note that he won the 1st round of the 2nd game almost entirely with throws. That's the great thing about throws. It keeps the opponent guessing as to what you're gonna do next. Pokes? A big combo? A throw? Unless you mix throws heavily into your game, there's no guess work. The opponent just blocks, every time.

    You can only play effectively when you truly make use of all these tools. And when you do that, the game does become deeper and more fun. If you can't reverse or block these things, it may seem shallow. But it's not. Instead you need to learn how to counter those things, or better yet not get put into that position to begin with.

    There's a lot more to the game than just throws and combos, but hopefully you get the gist. At the end of the day, this is a one on one game. The "fun" comes from using all your tools and trying to outsmart the other guy. Basing too much of your game off any one tool or arbitrarily crippling your game by not doing something only makes the game more shallow. It may be more fun to watch, since it might look more "crazy", but I certainly think it's less fun to play that way.

    Go balls out! Give it your all! That's when the game becomes deep and fun :wgrin:

    SweetJohnny, that was well put, and your points make a lot of sense.... thanks for the reply. and YES rep up all the way lol (can't do it since I'm the newbie scrub here lol)

    Thanks for being polite and understanding.
  • 1hitparry1hitparry Scrubasaurus Joined: Posts: 1,516
    In a sense I agree with you. There have been a lot of times where I've been frustrated by another player who basically abused something over and over again. However, there's a distinction between someone that's a scrub, and someone that's annoying. I'll be honest and admit that whenever someone abuses something against me (other than Genei Jin) I'll call them a scrub in my mind. But when I step back from the moment of the game, I realize that I don't know anything about the player that just kicked my butt with nothing but throw loops, sonic booms, or Aegis Reflector setups. The player could very well be a scrub and a one trick pony. Or your opponent might very well know a lot more about the game than I do, I just didn't make him adopt a different strategy.

    At that point it is up to you to either complain and vent your frustration (sometimes very necessary) or try to think of a way around your opponent's strategy abuse. If you find away around that fireball trap and completely destroy your opponent, then you can be pretty certain you are playing a scrub. But if your opponent puts up a good fight, then you'll know that you have a good opponent on your hands. Either way, you won't know until you try to adapt. Sometimes it's harder than it should be (old st balrog throw loops gave me a lot of trouble), but you just have to put up with it.

    I want to be supportive and say that I know how you feel, but at the same time I want to encourage you to try to work around what seems like a cheap trick.
  • Coth_XCoth_X G(x) = (3/(1-3x)) - 3 - 3x - 27x^2 Joined: Posts: 4,340
    Part of why people jumped on you was because you used the word cheap.

    That's a no no in SF.

    I had a guy tell me today that guile, honda, sim, and blanka were all cheap and were put into the game for people that wanted to play defensive. He uses ryu, and by the way he explained it, he didn't use reversals/defense on wake up against some of these characters.

    If your opponent beats you there can only be two possible reasons, you messed up, or the damn PS3 controller sucks.
    "The purpose of proof is to understand, not to verify." - Arnold Ross
    http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/534416 <--- Coolest Game Ever!
  • AlbedoAlbedo Is a legs man. Joined: Posts: 209
    Part of why people jumped on you was because you used the word cheap.

    That's a no no in SF.

    I had a guy tell me today that guile, honda, sim, and blanka were all cheap and were put into the game for people that wanted to play defensive. He uses ryu, and by the way he explained it, he didn't use reversals/defense on wake up against some of these characters.

    If your opponent beats you there can only be two possible reasons, you messed up, or the damn PS3 controller sucks.

    lol naw, I use a custom stick :woot:
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I was fucking pissed when I was playing Choi in CvS2 and when he threw me and I shouted respect, he then supered while I was clearly walking forward for my free throw.

    His dad wants to know where the chedder is? It's on his sons round one win icon due to throwing.

    Fuck I'd be in the top 100 were you fucking heavy button mashers not around.
  • Hydra632Hydra632 Joined: Posts: 464
    I was fucking pissed when I was playing Choi in CvS2 and when he threw me and I shouted respect, he then supered while I was clearly walking forward for my free throw.

    His dad wants to know where the chedder is? It's on his sons round one win icon due to throwing.

    Fuck I'd be in the top 100 were you fucking heavy button mashers not around.

    Post of the year.
    Real talk no Ssf4 but pizza was good mad hardbody Im getting a little salty pizzas too clutch
  • ShirtsShirts Former Video Game Player Joined: Posts: 519
    There are no rules. There is no HONOR. At minimum you play to win. At best, you play to dominate and destroy your opponent.

    Adapt instead of making excuses.
  • Stuart HaydenStuart Hayden Outspoken User. Joined: Posts: 11,639
    SweetJohnnyV is spittin that hot fire. Make no mistake dude is a beast. He HANDED my ass to me at Evo.
    R.I.P Seth Michael Hayden
    R.I.P Troy Lane Rogers

    Fuck Dan Marino
    Fuck $RK

    www.breakdancingrobot.com
  • KrsJinKrsJin Cheat Kune Do Joined: Posts: 1,347
    Another good example is when you get your opponent dizzy. This is the best opportunity to dish out the damage, right? Typically, I see people do throws or something. Sure that does good damage (if it isn't teched) but doesn't a 3 hit fierce combo do like twice that amount of damage? Fuck fancy, that actually DOES DAMAGE. But I wonder why people don't do that? Maybe cause they aren't capable of doing it?

    Hopefully someone gets what I'm trying to say here...

    Why do they need to do they need to cross up and capitalize on dizzies if what they're doing seems to be working just fine?

    I get what you're trying to say, but it just sounds like you yourself aren't very good at the game yet, (no offense in that, and no shame in it either), got frustrated with players beating you online, and came here and ranted about it.

    There are a lot of bad players online, granted. But if the connection is fine, a decent player should be able to run through them with ease. I'm testament to that, because I'm not very good at ST yet either, and have no problems with most random players lol. They let me get away with just about whatever I want.

    EDIT: Wow nm, I thought this was only two pages long lol. I probably repeated a grip that's already been said. Also looks like Sweet Johnny laid down the law.
    Number one chief rekka.

    Live in Colorado or plan to visit? Check out www.extrafresh.net
  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,782
    God fucking damn niggas is spittin the motherfuckin truth in this thread.
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
  • oldboyoldboy You are a big fool! Joined: Posts: 192
    Street Fighter follows Malcolm X's philosophy.

    By any means necessary.
  • UboUbo Joined: Posts: 107



    This is what I do all day.
    SF4/HALO3/CoD4/3s/MVC2/CoDMod2/Pokemon
  • KrsJinKrsJin Cheat Kune Do Joined: Posts: 1,347
    You watch the Justin Wong Vs. Daigo clip?
    Number one chief rekka.

    Live in Colorado or plan to visit? Check out www.extrafresh.net
  • FreshOJFreshOJ It's the God in me.. Joined: Posts: 1,485
    (Begin "Has-Been-Solder-Of-Fortune-Turned-Karate-Expert" mode)

    We do not train to be merciful here! Mercy is for the weak! A man face you? He is your enemy!!! Remember the rules of the Cobra-Kai!

    #1: A man can't see, a man can't fight!
    #2: A man can't breathe, a man can't fight!
    #3: A man can't stand, a man can't fight!

    Now, SWEEP THE LEG!!!

    (End John Kreese Cobra-Kai mode)

    Wow...somebody needs to dig up the old Cobra Kai Street Fighter thread from the alt.games.sf2 days. After reading, you too can become....wait for it....the best...around. :P

    Humor and nostalgia all at once. :)
    Onaje Everett
    Still in S.D., representing the Almighty.
    READ MY FAQ!!! (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/file/939066/56195)
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,975 mod



    this is what i do all day.

    allllllllll day.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I was fucking pissed when I was playing Choi in CvS2 and when he threw me and I shouted respect, he then supered while I was clearly walking forward for my free throw.

    His dad wants to know where the chedder is? It's on his sons round one win icon due to throwing.

    Fuck I'd be in the top 100 were you fucking heavy button mashers not around.

    You, sir, are the winner of the FOREVER!
  • UboUbo Joined: Posts: 107
    You watch the Justin Wong Vs. Daigo clip?


    122079455998.jpg
    SF4/HALO3/CoD4/3s/MVC2/CoDMod2/Pokemon
  • isurusisurus wants free bullshit Joined: Posts: 271
    I quoted a video the best explained what I was trying to say on this matter.... where was it... oh yeah here:

    Daigo won the match, but he was able to do the "coolest technical shit" while doing it. THIS is what I was talking about.

    Albedo, just because you don't see people not doing the coolest technical shit that blows your mind, doesn't mean they aren't good players or can't do insane combos.

    Even if someone can't do insane combos, but can out think you, they are the better player.

    Flashy style != good

    If you played to your potential, you'd have even more fun than you are now. But you're boxing yourself in. Let yourself out and find out how much more fun it is to play with no rules.

    "Using no way as way, and having no limitation as limitation." - Bruce Lee... he knows what he's talking about, he's the motherfucking master!
    Thou errst; no man calls me Lebowski. Hear rightly, man!for thou hast got the wrong man. I am the Knave, man; Knave in nature as in name.
  • PeterTheBohemianPeterTheBohemian @ggPeteQ Joined: Posts: 625
    If you know exactly what they're going to do and you still can't beat them, you're an idiot. I'd rather be cheap than an idiot.
  • Nos99Nos99 Science Scrub Joined: Posts: 4,652
    FreshOJ wrote:
    If people turtle, you absolutely *have* to out-think, out-poke, and out-throw them.

    Or turtle yourself, let the time run out, and nobody has any fun at all. Awesome.

    To be honest, "playing to win" can be boring as fuck sometimes. Most fighting games turn into a boring shit-fest at high level play anyhow IMO. Spamming uber safe moves, doing the same shit over and over, taking no risks at all, picking the characters that take the least amount of brain-power and execution, etc. For a tournament, sure, whatever it takes.. but for a casual pickup game with some noobs online?

    If you want to be an uber-leet tournament winner, then great, good for you. I know this is SRK and people want to lick every top player's balls and would do anything to be like them so this will probably fall on deaf ears... but this "win at all costs no matter what or how" is not for everyone. There are some of us out there that just want to play some games, do a few combos, pick a bunch of characters, etc.

    Mind you, I throw, I'll use whoever, etc. But if you want to win that hard that you'll counter pick EVERY TIME, take zero risks, and are worried more about your own lifebar than draining mine.. I'll let you win. If you want it that bad man, here, take it. I don't care. I don't really play to win so what does it matter to me? I'll play, but if it gets boring, I'll stop. Is there really anything wrong with that? Call me a 'scrub' or whatever, but ultimately, it's about what is "fun". I'm not going to be a world tourney winner, I don't want to be one, so I couldn't be bothered to torture myself sometimes against all the dumb shit that exits in some of these games.. especially if the other guys is doing nothing but.
    If you played to your potential, you'd have even more fun than you are now. But you're boxing yourself in. Let yourself out and find out how much more fun it is to play with no rules.

    No rules? What about banned characters? What about certain other banned tactics? If you are "playing to win" shouldn't you use these tactics? Forgive me if this doesn't seem VERY contradictory. Hell, dropping connection to protect your loss record is a legit strategy if you're "playing to win" and want to keep your standing. No honor, any means necessary right? Scream at your opponent in an attempt to upset them emotionally.. playing to win?

    Here's something that will probably drive you all crazy :
    I once walked out of a local 3rd Strike tourney final, because my opponent was just running away with Chun Li. I just couldn't be bothered to chase him down. "wow, this is no fun at all" so I left. I think the game sucks anyways. :P
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Nos99 wrote:
    Or turtle yourself, let the time run out, and nobody has any fun at all. Awesome.

    Except that won't happen. No one who is playing to win wants a draw, and no expert player will concede that there's no way for them to hurt their opponent if they are turtling regardless of the matchup. They will poke and probe until someone lands a hit and then that person, if that is their strategy will then turtle in earnest.

    At this point the other player must break the turtle and either take the health advantage so they can turtle themselves if they want to, or exploit other weaknessess in order to finish the opponent.

    Only one player can really turtle, and that's whoever is ahead in health.

    If my opponent is turtling and I am ahead, I will simply let them play their fools game and allow the clock to award my W. But more likely, they will realize this will happen, and there will be a desperate and interesting game as the player who is behind tries to recapture the lead. Or, if the edge is small, there may be a staring and poking contest until there are seconds left at which point someone will break the stalemate and start a very interesting and tense "final skirmish".

    Nothing boring about that to me.

    Nos99 wrote:
    Mind you, I throw, I'll use whoever, etc. But if you want to win that hard that you'll counter pick EVERY TIME, take zero risks, and are worried more about your own lifebar than draining mine.. I'll let you win. If you want it that bad man, here, take it. I don't care. I don't really play to win...

    How would this attitude translate to playing chess? IMO street fighter should be no different. Why should someone delibrately make a bad decision just because it would please their opponent?

    Nos99 wrote:
    What about certain other banned tactics? If you are "playing to win" shouldn't you use these tactics? Forgive me if this doesn't seem VERY contradictory.

    What "banned tactics"? There are no banned tactics in SFII tournies. Akuma has been banned at various tournaments, but no tactics, stratagies or setups are banned. If you can choose a character, you can use everything they got.

    So there is no contradiction, because there is no banned tactics.

    This of course doesn't count exploiting harmful bugs and glitches such as guiles handcuffs, or being able to lock or reset the machine.

    This follows under the same common-sense understanding that it would be cheating (as well as assault) to punch your opponent IRL in order to win in the game.

    Even banning akuma represents no contradiction because he was never meant to be a balanced character. He was an "easter egg" a playable boss, but not in the same sense as dictator. He was toned down a little, but never fully balanced.

    "Soft-bans" of other characters like claw tended to happen in japan where many players felt the game would be more balanced without them. But even there, there was insufficient reason to actually ban him in the tournament rules. Hence the term "soft ban".

    Nos99 wrote:
    Hell, dropping connection to protect your loss record is a legit strategy if you're "playing to win" and want to keep your standing.

    It's like chess again. If it happens 'on the board' it's all good. But reaching across the board and tweaking one's opponents nose is immediatly understood as a breach. Now the rules of a board game, since they are implemented by people, referrees etc. can address anything, including 'off the board' behavior. But once it's a computer game, the system cannot regulate such things in it's coded rules. The community must.

    Just because it's a chess server, doesn't mean it's ok to send blackmail letters to your opponent in order to win.

    Same with SFII, the game's code doesn't regulate out-of-game conduct, but any idiot can recognise that that is cheating. There is no slippery slope to doing everything within the confines of the game to win and other out-of game nonesense.

    And it is clear that dropping for rank is not a legitamate tactic in the online chess world as most servers have rules to prevent this. And it is implicitly understood that trying to manipluate one's rating through dropping to the maximum allowed in the server scoring/rating system would still be against the spirit of the rules and not respected.

    Well it's the same for remix. Droppers are awarded a loss so it is clear that the intention is to discourage such behavior.
  • Coth_XCoth_X G(x) = (3/(1-3x)) - 3 - 3x - 27x^2 Joined: Posts: 4,340
    Except that won't happen. No one who is playing to win wants a draw, and no expert player will concede that there's no way for them to hurt their opponent if they are turtling regardless of the matchup. They will poke and probe until someone lands a hit and then that person, if that is their strategy will then turtle in earnest.

    At this point the other player must break the turtle and either take the health advantage so they can turtle themselves if they want to, or exploit other weaknessess in order to finish the opponent.

    Only one player can really turtle, and that's whoever is ahead in health.

    If my opponent is turtling and I am ahead, I will simply let them play their fools game and allow the clock to award my W. But more likely, they will realize this will happen, and there will be a desperate and interesting game as the player who is behind tries to recapture the lead. Or, if the edge is small, there may be a staring and poking contest until there are seconds left at which point someone will break the stalemate and start a very interesting and tense "final skirmish".

    Nothing boring about that to me.




    How would this attitude translate to playing chess? IMO street fighter should be no different. Why should someone delibrately make a bad decision just because it would please their opponent?




    What "banned tactics"? There are no banned tactics in SFII tournies. Akuma has been banned at various tournaments, but no tactics, stratagies or setups are banned. If you can choose a character, you can use everything they got.

    So there is no contradiction, because there is no banned tactics.

    This of course doesn't count exploiting harmful bugs and glitches such as guiles handcuffs, or being able to lock or reset the machine.

    This follows under the same common-sense understanding that it would be cheating (as well as assault) to punch your opponent IRL in order to win in the game.

    Even banning akuma represents no contradiction because he was never meant to be a balanced character. He was an "easter egg" a playable boss, but not in the same sense as dictator. He was toned down a little, but never fully balanced.

    "Soft-bans" of other characters like claw tended to happen in japan where many players felt the game would be more balanced without them. But even there, there was insufficient reason to actually ban him in the tournament rules. Hence the term "soft ban".




    It's like chess again. If it happens 'on the board' it's all good. But reaching across the board and tweaking one's opponents nose is immediatly understood as a breach. Now the rules of a board game, since they are implemented by people, referrees etc. can address anything, including 'off the board' behavior. But once it's a computer game, the system cannot regulate such things in it's coded rules. The community must.

    Just because it's a chess server, doesn't mean it's ok to send blackmail letters to your opponent in order to win.

    Same with SFII, the game's code doesn't regulate out-of-game conduct, but any idiot can recognise that that is cheating. There is no slippery slope to doing everything within the confines of the game to win and other out-of game nonesense.

    And it is clear that dropping for rank is not a legitamate tactic in the online chess world as most servers have rules to prevent this. And it is implicitly understood that trying to manipluate one's rating through dropping to the maximum allowed in the server scoring/rating system would still be against the spirit of the rules and not respected.

    Well it's the same for remix. Droppers are awarded a loss so it is clear that the intention is to discourage such behavior.

    If it drops before the match even starts, do they still penalize? i don't care about my rating, but if I have more losses than necessary it may still make me look bad in front of the people I play with.
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  • ShinBlankaShinBlanka 神Blanka Joined: Posts: 7,165 mod

    I remember everyone around here considered throwing "cheap". So if you were to accidentally throw someone in a match you'd do something called "respect" and let the other guy throw you back haha, good ol days... I dunno that might've been just a thing that started around here, I dunno if anything like that ever existed in the States...

    I remember these days also. We were all young and stupid back then imo. I've gotten into fist fight's over throwing people back in the day. I was called a scrub, cheap bastard, and personal attacks lead to a fight most of the time. I stop throwing when some people started to get shot in the head for being cheap. People were dying in the ATL for being cheap so I stop playing sf.:confused: Fuck dying over some dumbshit because some people are so weak and wack that they have to shoot someone because they lost. I came back after college and those weak minded people with GUNs wasn't playing SF anymore.

    The basic's of sf is the same imo. If someone blocks to fucking much or to fucking well then YOU THROW THAT ASS TO DEATH! I bet you think fb/dp traps are cool though? Some people might think that was cheap.:rolleyes: Anything can be called CHeap if you don't know how to deal with it imo. Cheap is a cop-out imo. Unless the character is broken there is nothing that is cheap about how someone choose to play that character. If they want to fb/dp trap you to death then figure away out of it. If they want to throw you to death figure away out of it.

    Don't sit here and complain about how you lost to someone that so called "CHEAPED YOU OUT"! Did they magic throw you? Or handcuff you?:confused: If not then you just got beat and you don't know how to take losing to something over, and over, and over again. You should be mad at yourself for losing to the same shit over and over again instead of calling people cheap.:rofl: Learn how to beat/counter the bs that someone was doing to you or stop playing this game.

    With that attitude you have about fighters and the way people are SUPPOSE to play fighting games you might want to quit playing fighting games sir. I'm not talking shit to you sir. This is just a reality check for you. If you think a scrub equals to a player that pokes, does random things to throw you off and throws alot is a scrub then you don't know what a scrub is imo. A person with a good understanding of the footies game and the throw game isn't a scrub imo, but to each it's own.:rolleyes: If you have a ps3 don't add me to your list or play against me because i'm one of those throwing/poking/random scrubs you talked about.:rolleyes::wgrin::rofl:

    P.S.- If you are a casual player then I understand why anyone would think like you. I understand if that is the case. Most casual players don't care about the whole "WIN AT ALL COST" mind set. They just want to play and have fun at playing sf and playing those type of players isn't fun to a casual player. I understand that part of the arguement. I just don't agree with someone calling people scrubs due to them losing to dumb shit they could never stop in 18 years of playing sf! Playing turtle man to end of clock/timer matches suck for casual sf guy. Playing tick throwing guy sucks for casual guy also.

    I don't know whatelse to tell you casual guy. It pretty much sucks for you if you play against win at all cost guy!
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  • Aqua SnakeAqua Snake Never Outskilled... Joined: Posts: 1,334
  • kliqueykliquey Jump Kick Footsweep! Joined: Posts: 358
    I'm a scrub. I throw loop all day if it works, I don't care! If they don't like it they can leave the room I'm playing in. There are people who can stop throw loops and I'd rather play them than someone who jumps away and randomly does hurricane kicks all day. Sorry!

    Winning is winning! If I'm in a room with 5 other people (me being #6) I would much rather throw and win and keep dominating than lose and have to wait forever for my turn again.
  • KrsJinKrsJin Cheat Kune Do Joined: Posts: 1,347
    122079455998.jpg

    I got the joke :/ and tried to turn it into another based off of another post. I wasn't trying to get at you or anything lol.
    Number one chief rekka.

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  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,202
    I'm a scrub. I throw loop all day if it works, I don't care! If they don't like it they can leave the room I'm playing in. There are people who can stop throw loops and I'd rather play them than someone who jumps away and randomly does hurricane kicks all day. Sorry!

    Winning is winning! If I'm in a room with 5 other people (me being #6) I would much rather throw and win and keep dominating than lose and have to wait forever for my turn again.

    If the person can't escape from whatever you're doing, then you're doing the right thing. If they bitch, tell them they suck. I don't even tick throw that often and still get complaints when I do (even when it is painfully obvious that I would've won without it).
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  • UboUbo Joined: Posts: 107
    I'mma Scrub, I like to get my ass beat. Tells me I have to work harder to get better.
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  • MechanicaMechanica elias the flyest Joined: Posts: 6,252
    I'mma Scrub, I like to get my ass beat. Tells me I have to work harder to get better.

    Then you're not a scrub. Scrubs are the people who whine about losing.
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  • Nos99Nos99 Science Scrub Joined: Posts: 4,652
    Only one player can really turtle, and that's whoever is ahead in health.

    That's not true. Both can turtle. Time runs out. Ta-da!
    But more likely, they will realize this will happen, and there will be a desperate and interesting game as the player who is behind tries to recapture the lead.

    Interesting? Especially if you've been horribly counter-picked, this can be far from interesting. All I see is some guy worried more about his own lifebar than his opponent's, and seems especially silly if they've already got a clear advantage in the character match-up to begin with. They're not "playing to win", they're "playing to not lose".

    Sure, you play however you want, but surely you can understand if someone might find this excruciatingly tedious. Especially if every match of a set turns into this bore-fest, I wouldn't expect most casual people to keep playing for long. Probably rather go see the dentist.
    How would this attitude translate to playing chess? IMO street fighter should be no different. Why should someone delibrately make a bad decision just because it would please their opponent?

    Why not? I like to make people happy. :P I let people win all the time.
    So there is no contradiction, because there is no banned tactics.

    Sorry, I was being general.. fighting games in general I mean. Just pointing out that anything you ban totally contradicts the "playing to win" mantra as it is in the game to begin with, and it's just using some arbitrary logic when you ban something.

    All the other tools like aggravating the other player emotionally, dropping connection, etc, are met with the "but it's not in the game!" defense, but then what about all these banned tactics, characters, glicthes, bugs, etc? They are also in the game too! But these are not fair! But I'm playing to win, I don't cater to "fair"! Any tool at my disposal! But it's too good of a tool! etc etc.

    Hell, if you could cheat and get away with it, it would be "playing to win". No honor right? Or is there? If there is, how much does the honor cover? Seems pretty arbitrary on the whole if you ask me.
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