Switch-less USB selector for PS3+360 "Imp": Re-Design Underway, Input appreciated.

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Comments

  • gamingnow.netgamingnow.net Joined: Posts: 943
    But why would you need to? Your stick isn't going to gain a guide button and no longer need it without digging out some tools, it seems like the only practical use for that would be if your guide button broke and you weren't able to repair it immediately.

    I don't know, i was just trying to explain why the other guy would have wanted it.
    Gamingnow.net - a shop for home arcade hobbyists!
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  • ToodlesToodles da Fetus of Gawd! Joined: Posts: 10,777
    Questions
    1. what are the predicted dimensions?
    2. will it use the same usb b female connector?
    3. what can I do to help???

    Super stoked on this one cant wait to get my hands on it!

    1. The boards that were ordered a week ago are exactly like the last picture I posted. The big rectangle is 25mmx42mm. The little stick out part is 8.5mmx10mm. Maximum width and maximum height is 33.5mmx42mm
    2. As the Cthulhu? Yes, it can use a standard USB 'B' jack, but I expect most folks with solder the cable straight to it, especially in the MadCatz sticks.
    3. Ummm...Documentation. Pictures, instructions, etc on how to use it and how to use the Cthulhu in dual PCB mods. Especially with LL down for a month, I don't have much time for anything other than filling orders and if Im lucky a little homework.
    toodles been try'un to reach u via AIM bout the IMP......no replies

    And yet I answer posts in the Cthulhu and Imp and UPCB threads pretty quickly. Post up your question. AIM is intrusive, interupts what I am in the middle of, and doesn't help anyone but the two people chatting. Forum posts wait until I have a moment, and benefit all who read them.
    thats awesome so when do pre-orders start? i want one.

    No need, plenty will be available when they're available.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    But why would you need to? Your stick isn't going to gain a guide button and no longer need it without digging out some tools, it seems like the only practical use for that would be if your guide button broke and you weren't able to repair it immediately.

    Just asked incase some want to un-do the soldier for a future case that they know will have different guide settings. Obviously though, anyone with that many custom's under their belt would hopefully have the skills to remove/add the soldier bridge. Nothing major, was just wondering if it'd help his design be more "user friendly".
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  • TyroneWilliamsTyroneWilliams Joined: Posts: 29
    So freaking excited about this... I keep checking this thread everyday.
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  • ToodlesToodles da Fetus of Gawd! Joined: Posts: 10,777
    So freaking excited about this... I keep checking this thread everyday.
    Appreciated, but the parts are already here, and the boards aren't due to arrive until the 23rd or so. Sorry brother, but there ain't gonna be much exciting to report for a week or so :)
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  • archalienarchalien NorCal Scrub Joined: Posts: 136
    Toodles, I wanted to know more about how you program the boards, where/how u learned to do so, and what language you use. I thought such a conversation was not completely appropriate in this thread. Sorry I wasnt trying to be a jerk. I am a Software Engineer, but have never worked with direct chip programming and the like.

    On a side note, It seems you already have all the boards/parts.... but should there ever be a second run, I prefer a more symmetric/square board, dont know if there are other considerations, just my 2 cents(alas I came late to the thread).
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  • ToodlesToodles da Fetus of Gawd! Joined: Posts: 10,777
    Toodles, I wanted to know more about how you program the boards, where/how u learned to do so, and what language you use. I thought such a conversation was not completely appropriate in this thread. Sorry I wasnt trying to be a jerk. I am a Software Engineer, but have never worked with direct chip programming and the like.
    http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5767608&postcount=202
    If I were to learn it all over again, the route described in that post would be the way I'd want to go. The way I did it was a serious pain the tuckus. If you're comfy with programming, and you get a good setup like I describe in that thread, it's not hard to jump right in. A lot of the weirder low level stuff is taken care of for you.
    On a side note, It seems you already have all the boards/parts.... but should there ever be a second run, I prefer a more symmetric/square board, dont know if there are other considerations, just my 2 cents(alas I came late to the thread).
    The piece that sticks out doesn't have any electronics going through it; it'd be easy to cut off for a plain rectangular board, and was put on so there'd be a solid way to mount it inside a MadCatz stick. I'll put up the EAGLE files for the pcb layout in a bit, and I'd seriously love to see what ideas folks can come up with for improving it; this batch of 100 is sort of a trial run, so any improvements are very welcome.
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  • ToodlesToodles da Fetus of Gawd! Joined: Posts: 10,777
    Got notice that they've shipped. I should have pictures hopefully Friday and can test out code over the weekend.
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  • archalienarchalien NorCal Scrub Joined: Posts: 136
    I checked that thread tootles, have some ?'s.....

    The RadioShack E.L.L. is no longer offered @ rs.com but acquirable through ebay.
    How important is this in the grand scheme of things? is it just a learning tool, or is it a test bed you regularly use for building these projects? If so how is it used (can u give simple example).

    In your experience can you give pros/cons of going Boarduino vs Arduino?
    Will I only need one of these to create/test with, or is this the actual brains that goes onto every project?

    Although I have very little experience with this particular subject, combined parts from 10 years of custom joystick mods/creation and some electrical tools from working in construction/hvac reapir I happen to have every tool in the LadyAda's Starter kit HAHAHAHA Ugh.... hehe

    Well except maybe an oscilloscope for detailed signal testing......


    I live in Silicon Valley and have 3 Fry's within 10 minutes drive (for those who dont know, Frys is like the Toy's R Us for this type of sh!t) FTW So I can get all kinds of parts plugged into a breadboard. But Im curious about the process. I have built small circuits for wireless operation of Happ 360's using a 5v relays, and a voltage stepdown IC with various resistors etc. But am curious about the process, you build the circuit, program the IC, what happens between that and the finished product everyone gets (specialized IC/ circut pcb w/ traces etc)?

    Thx Toodles! :)
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  • ToodlesToodles da Fetus of Gawd! Joined: Posts: 10,777
    Sorry, I don't have the time to go into all of that. You have a lot of tools at your disposal already. Dive in. Just about everything I've learned has been by doing, failing, fixing, and repeating.
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  • archalienarchalien NorCal Scrub Joined: Posts: 136
    Sorry, I don't have the time to go into all of that. You have a lot of tools at your disposal already. Dive in. Just about everything I've learned has been by doing, failing, fixing, and repeating.

    Doh!

    Ow well I was hoping to get a little more info before jumping in, I dont really have the time/money to make that next big jump with out a little more backgound info ie if that radioshack thing is just a learning tool Im not sure if its something I should start with first or something that only teaches basics I already have knowledge of....... Well I guess i'll be patient till u get more time or I have more time/money/balls to take the next jump somewhat blind.

    Thx neway, will look forward to your imp progress. good luck, may see my name on the order list, also forgive, I just dbl checked but didnt see an anticpated final customer cost?
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Just wondering if you have come up with a price range for these? They sound like a very clean solution vs. a DPDT switch.
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  • ToodlesToodles da Fetus of Gawd! Joined: Posts: 10,777
    $7, unassembled. I may end including DIP sockets for the chips which would increase it to $8, but I want to try without the sockets for a while; unless you're leaving the iron on the chip legs for minutes at a time the sockets shouldn't be neccessary. I'm not really considering assembled ones, because soldering is 100% required in order to use it.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Toodles you're the man! Looking forward to this for my second stick mod!
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  • bakagetabakageta Joined: Posts: 257
    So, what color PCB did you go with, or is it a surprise? :P
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  • ToodlesToodles da Fetus of Gawd! Joined: Posts: 10,777
    So, what color PCB did you go with, or is it a surprise? :P
    I went with black with white writing. I cant wait to see what they look like. I dont remember if I select the 'matte' finish or not. Betcherass I'll have pics posted as soon as they get here. Getting boards in the mail always feels like Xmas. :party:
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    So if everything goes well over the weekend these might available as soon as monday (the 23rd)? I'm asking because I'm planning to order a couple of Cthulhu boards and if these are available soon I'll just wait a bit to order everything at once :wgrin:

    EDIT: And btw Toodles, since no one answered your question about having pins to connect leds to see which system is selected I'm assuming you didn't go forward with this, right? It would be a really neat feature imo :)
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  • ToodlesToodles da Fetus of Gawd! Joined: Posts: 10,777
    DSC03342Small.jpg
    So if everything goes well over the weekend these might available as soon as monday (the 23rd)? I'm asking because I'm planning to order a couple of Cthulhu boards and if these are available soon I'll just wait a bit to order everything at once :wgrin:

    EDIT: And btw Toodles, since no one answered your question about having pins to connect leds to see which system is selected I'm assuming you didn't go forward with this, right? It would be a really neat feature imo :)

    I said they'd be available by the 30th; they may be available before then, but I have no idea when that might be.

    Yeah, the LED idea got canned because I'd need to make room for at least one resistor.
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  • eightbitminibosseightbitminiboss Joined: Posts: 51
    PCB Pic

    That is hot. :rock:
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Oh man, beautiful... I might have to grab another cthulhu at this rate for my 360-only stick. Man, I need my tax rebate :)
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    ...

    I said they'd be available by the 30th; they may be available before then, but I have no idea when that might be.

    Yeah, the LED idea got canned because I'd need to make room for at least one resistor.

    Looking good :bgrin:

    Well in that case I'll wait a bit longer before getting some more Cthulhus, thanks for the info Toodles :wink:
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  • archalienarchalien NorCal Scrub Joined: Posts: 136
    Anyone willing to provide a wiring diagram for this connected to a 360 TE stick and a Cthulhu (possibly pics) Basically I want to use the Xbox Guide button as the PS button in that mode including and the locking of that button w/ ST/SL buttons too. I dont know if Cthulhu has controller number led support... gotta search that thread, but Id also want to wire the switch button to Start or a face button.
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  • ECOsvaldoECOsvaldo Joined: Posts: 20
    DSC03342Small.jpg


    I said they'd be available by the 30th; they may be available before then, but I have no idea when that might be.

    Yeah, the LED idea got canned because I'd need to make room for at least one resistor.

    WWWWOOOOOOOWWWWWWW! Me ... want ... it ... NOW! Put me down for one Toodles! AWESOME!
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Any news about the code testing or you didn't have the time yet Toodles? :)
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  • StargalaqticStargalaqtic Up to Snuffaluffagus Joined: Posts: 560
    Great work will be supporting when finished.
    Self proclaimed Pittsburgh,PA Roseball Champion.
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  • ToodlesToodles da Fetus of Gawd! Joined: Posts: 10,777
    Code is written, and tests out well with the multimeter and switches and resistors and all of the other stuff needed to test it. All it needs now is to be tested in a stick.

    I've got some work to do assembling Cthulhu boards, so I need to catch up with that before I install it in one of the TE's here. I'm going to grab the parts for three boards and send to Zombie CPT. I'm hoping that'll be enough for him to test if they work to his approval before sending the big batch when I get the thumbs up. Hopefully I'll be able to test it myself in a TE at the same time.

    Minor geek notes in case anyone is interested. I was wrong about being able to use the slower speed of the chip to help reduce power consumption; the internal oscillator only has one speed, 1 MIPS. Current at that speed is average of 1.1mA according to the data sheet. Still, a very low number. But, we only need to keep it on if we're doing the whole 'Start+Select=Guide' functionality. For the other 99% who actually have a dedicated Home/Guide button, the chip will go to sleep mode, and pull only 2.4uA. That's so puny none of my multimeters can even measure it. :)

    Does this mean Imps are ready for sale? NO. Not until Zombie gets his batch, and definitely not until it's been tested in a real stick.
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  • fundandofundando monitor cyborg Joined: Posts: 256
    So in order to use the guide button I have to use Start+Select? And will home key functionality be unaffected?
    Don't forget your vitamins.
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  • FaightFaight Spewing hatemail IRL Joined: Posts: 1,213
    Let us know when this hit the market as I'd be mighty interested in acquiring a few.
    Your arguments are invalid, I drowned a shark.
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  • ToodlesToodles da Fetus of Gawd! Joined: Posts: 10,777
    Cracked open the SE stick I used for the solderless Cthulhu mod. Removed the second USB cable, and wired in the Imp so it only used the one USB cord.

    Results were half good, half bad. On one hand, the selection of which PCB to use, based on holding down Guide when plugging in, worked flawlessly. No Guide, Cthulhu; with guide, 360. Absolutely beautiful.

    The bad part is that the jumper was shorted; it should have been looking at the buttons wired for start and select, and not Guide. Oh well. I'm pretty sure I know what happened though; one of the pins is supposed to go low, wait a tic, and then check to see if the Guide button is low too. If it is, then we know the jumper was shorted and we need to setup the whole Start+Select=Guide thingy. The MadCatz sticks have capacitors on most of the signal lines to smooth out the signal, because microswitches cause nasty 'bounce' noise when pressed or released. The cap slows it down so its a smooth transition from high to low; if the delay was too short, that smooth decline might still be high enough for the chip to consider it high. So, I need to up the delay. No big deal, and I'll test that out on a TE here shortly. (Ironically, a TE or SE is probably the last stick you'd ever need that functionality for. Still, best to get it perfect before selling.)

    Its not my best wiring work, but I hope to throw the SE up on ebay here soon and see if there's any market interest in a dual modded, sanwa modded SE.
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  • brighennebrighenne Joined: Posts: 799
    Microswitch bounce makes for a lot of fun in paintball.

    Can't wait for these, maybe I can grab one of those initial three from zombie cpt. :)

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  • vegeto626vegeto626 Joined: Posts: 11
    +1 to the list of willing buyers right here! Keep it up toodles!
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  • gamingnow.netgamingnow.net Joined: Posts: 943
    These "Imp" boards, along with the Cthulhu boards, are now for sale in the do-it-yourself section of my website; with Toodles' authorization of course. Thanks Marcus for letting me carry these items.

    http://gamingnow.net/DIY.html
    Gamingnow.net - a shop for home arcade hobbyists!
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    When I click on "Add to cart" for the IMP board, it adds a

    Microsoft Wireless Gamepad
    Item # 0001

    for $39.95...
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  • gamingnow.netgamingnow.net Joined: Posts: 943
    When I click on "Add to cart" for the IMP board, it adds a

    Microsoft Wireless Gamepad
    Item # 0001

    for $39.95...

    Hah, one minute I forgot to edit that.
    Damn distractions in my house tonight.
    Never update your website when there is a party at your place. :sweat:
    Gamingnow.net - a shop for home arcade hobbyists!
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Heya,

    I'm new.

    I own an xbox 360 TE Stick, and I want to make a switchless dual mod.

    Assembled or un-assembled Cthuhlu board? What are the advantages/drawbacks of either one?


    Thanks!
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  • gamingnow.netgamingnow.net Joined: Posts: 943
    Fixed
    Gamingnow.net - a shop for home arcade hobbyists!
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  • BombermanBomberman The Fighting Bomber Joined: Posts: 847
    Sackofrice, an unassembled Cthulhu kit will not come with the terminal stripes or USB jack, so you'd have to either buy those separately or connect your wires differently. The advantage of assembled is less work and the possibility of doing the mod without soldering, since you just screw the wires into the barrier strips.
    -Paul Acevedo, EastX
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    These "Imp" boards, along with the Cthulhu boards, are now for sale in the do-it-yourself section of my website; with Toodles' authorization of course. Thanks Marcus for letting me carry these items.

    http://gamingnow.net/DIY.html

    Does the Imp you are selling come with any kind of welcome document or building instructions like the Cthulhu?
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Wait, does that mean that the Imp has been released? and gamingnow.net, you have them in stock, or are just taking orders?
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  • GoodfellaGoodfella Is the real deal! Joined: Posts: 25
    Wait, does that mean that the Imp has been released? and gamingnow.net, you have them in stock, or are just taking orders?

    I would like to know this also cause if so them I'm ordering asap.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    I would like to know as well
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  • ToodlesToodles da Fetus of Gawd! Joined: Posts: 10,777
    Heya,

    I'm new.

    I own an xbox 360 TE Stick, and I want to make a switchless dual mod.

    Assembled or un-assembled Cthuhlu board? What are the advantages/drawbacks of either one?


    Thanks!

    The 360 TE I'm working on now started off with an unassembled Cthulhu. All of the signals connecting it to the 360 pcb were soldered to the unlabelled holes on the side opposite if where the USB jack can go.

    The thing is, using an Imp requires soldering; there's no way around it. So the TE mod I'm doing and taking pictures of assumes you're comfortable soldering. If you're not, it's really in your best interest to find a tech who is to do it for you. If you get an assembled Cthulhu and use the screw terminals, you reduce the soldering you have to do on the Cthulhu, but the wiring becomes a little messier, and you still have the much more difficult soldering of the wires to the TE board.
    Does the Imp you are selling come with any kind of welcome document or building instructions like the Cthulhu?

    I plan on making a little half-sheet welcome doc like the Cthulhu has, yes. Haven't done it yet though.
    Wait, does that mean that the Imp has been released? and gamingnow.net, you have them in stock, or are just taking orders?

    Let me get back to you on that one.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Thanks Toodles and Bomberman. Both of your inputs help a lot.

    I've purchased my unassembled Cthulhu and an Imp.

    This is my first mod, and i have ambitious plans for it ^^

    You're a great community member Toods. Keep it up!
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    great work Toodless!

    The imp board look so sexy and it has some cool funktions. But I have a few questions. Well I use my stick to boot up my X360, will this still be working even if I have x360 as secondary and have no dedicated guide button, in other words will it be possible to boot up my 360 holding back+start button (if my x360 is connected as secondary)?

    See if I understod this right. The cthulhu and imp are not only limited to use together with madcatz TE or SE stick, it can be use together with a madcats retro arcadestick mod in a hori T5 stick, right?
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  • ToodlesToodles da Fetus of Gawd! Joined: Posts: 10,777
    great work Toodless!

    The imp board look so sexy and it has some cool funktions. But I have a few questions. Well I use my stick to boot up my X360, will this still be working even if I have x360 as secondary and have no dedicated guide button, in other words will it be possible to boot up my 360 holding back+start button (if my x360 is connected as secondary)?
    If the xbox360 is secondary, and you're using the start+back=guide functionality, then just hold down start+back when plugging in. The Imp will select the secondary pcb, and then the start+back functionality will start holding down the guide button.
    The tricky part is, I'm not 100% sure how it will act if you're leaving it plugged in. If it works like I think, then the power will still be applied to the stick, and it will remain in xbox360 mode even when the 360 is 'off'. If that's the case, then holding start+back will turn on the 360.
    See if I understod this right. The cthulhu and imp are not only limited to use together with madcatz TE or SE stick, it can be use together with a madcats retro arcadestick mod in a hori T5 stick, right?
    I don't know what you mean about the T5 stick, but you're correct that it is not limited to the setups I've done; it doesn't care where the two D+ and D- lines come from, it just directs one or the other to the output.
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  • ToodlesToodles da Fetus of Gawd! Joined: Posts: 10,777
    Imp test successful. Both regular USB switching functionality and the 'Start+Select=Guide' functionality works like a champ. I need to finish reassembling this TE so I can get it out to the customer, but if anyone would like to place orders, they are welcome to. I will do my best to get a small 'welcome sheet' done to include in the kits out on Monday, but I can't guarantee that they'll be ready by Monday to mail off. Cost is $7 per, and I can fit a bunch into a small flat rate priority box, so $6 shipping for US, $11 for Canada, and $13 everywhere else.

    If you're ordering a bunch for your own use (ones you'll be soldering yourself) and don't need them individually wrapped, please let me know; it'll make packing a lot easier.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Imp test successful. Both regular USB switching functionality and the 'Start+Select=Guide' functionality works like a champ. I need to finish reassembling this TE so I can get it out to the customer, but if anyone would like to place orders, they are welcome to. I will do my best to get a small 'welcome sheet' done to include in the kits out on Monday, but I can't guarantee that they'll be ready by Monday to mail off. Cost is $7 per, and I can fit a bunch into a small flat rate priority box, so $6 shipping for US, $11 for Canada, and $13 everywhere else.

    If you're ordering a bunch for your own use (ones you'll be soldering yourself) and don't need them individually wrapped, please let me know; it'll make packing a lot easier.

    Score... in for an Imp and a Cthulhu!
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  • WarpticonWarpticon Main otaku of SRK #2 Joined: Posts: 9,966 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Damn, I'd place an order right now if I could get an MC cthulhu.
    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the compound.
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  • ToodlesToodles da Fetus of Gawd! Joined: Posts: 10,777
    Damn, I'd place an order right now if I could get an MC cthulhu.

    I got tons of 'em.
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  • dav3ybdav3yb Quarter Man Joined: Posts: 1,107
    this seems rather interesting. i do like the idea. although currently, if i dual-mod anything, it would be an old agetec, which barely has room for an xbox pcb to begin with... too bad you cant make those things smaller toodles :rofl:
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