Zangief Strategy/Match-up Thread

SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
Ok, seeing as a lot of people don't like to look through the original matchup thread, I decided to take matters into my own hands and collect the information I thought was best and put them into one thread. If there's anything I missed, or you think I should add, please feel free to comment. Credit goes to UltraDavid, Renegade, Coopa, and The RedEye for the strats.

LEGEND:
LP/LK = Low Punch/Kick
MP/MK = Med Punch/Kick
HP/HK = Hard Punch/Kick
Cr. = Crouching
St. = Standing
SPD = Spinning Pile Driver
FB = Fireball
AA = Anti-Air
FADC = Focus Attack Dash Cancel
xx = Cancel
Hand = Green Hand/Banishing Flat/Green Glove

Mindset:
You have to think differently as Gief.
You have the grabs, sure.
Your goal is not to land the grabs.
Your goal is to PUNISH people for trying to avoid the grabs.

General Strategies:
- using cr.LK, cr.LP, st.LP, and st.MP to keep people on the ground for a long time and then grab them when they're sleeping.
- For example: After SPD, LP hand then cr.LK will snag anyone holding up to jump away from SPD. Follow up with combo of choice.

- Both spd and 360+k have 2 frames of startup and both lose to perfectly timed meaty attacks. EX spd beats meaty attacks, whereas ex 360+k absorbs the meaty attack and then throws the opponent.

- Also, after crossup, you can do cr.LPx2, *delay*, cr.LK->st.LK->st.MK/EX HAND.

- In most of gief's matches when played by experts in this game, the time is a factor. Gief's opponents have to play keep away to win. That premise only works if they have a life lead. Otherwise you have no reason to attack. Sooner or later, they'll realize what you're doing and then try to mount an offense and come to you. This effectively does your work for you.

- Gief's defense is actually much better than his offense. He's got 1200 health, a high or low invincibility move at the press of 3 buttons, and a 2 frame grab that has ridiculous range. Play to your strengths.

- St.LK, Cr.LK, St.MP, Cr.LP, St.LP, Cr.MK, and Cr.HK are your footsies.

REVERSALS: You always have to be on the lookout for reversals, but more importantly in this game, you have to know when its more likely that they will occur.

WATCH FOR:
2 bars of EX Meter
Ultra

Against Ryu, Sagat, Balrog especially. Their likelihood for reversal goes way up when it can be safe to do so and can lead to big damage.

PROTIP: Learn Jab SPD's range like the back of your hand. learn how to jump into EXACTLY that range.

This is a vital key to becoming good with Zangief. The simple mixup is jumping into that range and doing j.hp or j.mk or empty jumping and doing Spd. This obviously works much better against characters without effective far range AA's such as Ryu, Fei, Akuma, and Honda.

It also works really well against Guile, Claw, and Boxer w/o down charges.

CHARACTERS WHOSE St.HK MAKE A BAD DAY FOR GIEF
- Chun Li
- Claw (Vega)
- Dictator (M.Bison)
- Sagat
- Rose

Their St.HK (or in Rose's case forward+HK) will wreck your shop.

Sagat and Rose are the worst. Chun's LP fireball->St.HK are an annoyance at best.

- You need to get into the range where these characters have to PREDICT when to do the St.HK, and not REACT with st.HK. This is obviously, RIGHT outside their St.HK range. Twitchy players will just start tossing it out b/c they are panicing.

Options:
- St.LP
This is really safe. Jabs can sometimes straight stuff these moves. Seems to work best against sagat.

- St.MP
Best used as a whiff punisher in footsies. Right after they hit RH, toss out St. MP, and should hit them. Works best on sagat. Against Chun, you can mash this, b/c it will trade a lot. Even though she's doing 100 health to your 90, you have 300 more life, so you come out ahead.

- Jump straight up, then Up+HP/MP Headbutt.
---) works well against Bison/Vega/Chun. DON'T DO against Rose/Sagat w/ Ultra.
---) Headbutt has a crazy hitbox, and you can tag the tip of their foot with it.
---) Counter headbutts stun alot, and will get them thinking twice about tossing it out again, effectively doing more work that it should.
---) HP Headbutt does more stun damage than MP Headbutt

- Jab SPD!!!
If you stand just outside the range of the St.HK's (you should know them by now) doing a Jab SPD as they execute the St.HK will grab their forward moving hitbox! Watch in wonder as Gief grabs them from HALF SCREEN! Try this in training mode. Yeah, you have to basically guess, and you may eat a lot of St.HK's as a result of this, but once you get one SPD, you're in and the mixups begin. I think combining this tactic with jump up+HP Headbutt should be really effective (i.e. get outside HK range Jump up+HP Headbutt, buffer Jab SPD)

- Cr. MK
Works best against chun's b/c her St.HK goes over your head when crouching and allows you to advance. Is terrible against Sagat and Bison b/c of the mid hit boxes.

- Cr. HK/Down Forward+ Cr. HK
Is super slow, but generates a knockdown and allows you to get in.

- St. HK
Really, you're only tossing this out to counter hit their startup or to trade. It's usually not that great.

- EX/normal 360+K
Again, a bad idea for all the reasons stating above (eating a combo of death if it misses, which is usually does), but it does instantly grab if the opponent moves their hitbox into its grab range, even during the "I'm raising my hands" startup. So, it has more active frames in which to grab them. Jab SPD accomplishes the same goal. Seems to work best on Rose's Fwd+HK, because it seems her vulnerable hitbox extends forward way before the attack hitbox appears. You don't even need EX to do this. Needs more testing, still a bad idea.

Character Matchups:
ABEL
As for Fall Sky/Whirlwind, that 50/50 is just not going to be profitable in the long run for Abel. B/c you have to factor in damage options here:

WW Throw->Gief Blocks: Abel 200-220
WW Throw->Gief Jumps/Back Dash: Gief 200(SPD)-300 (jump in, MP, EX Hand)

Fall Sky->Gief backdashes/jumps: Abel 160
Fall Sky->Gief blocks: Gief- 240-250 (either HP SPD or MP->ex hand)

Abel is losing these damage exchanges every time. Keep in mind Gief has 100 more health than Abel.

- Also, this certainly changes when Gief's got Ultra/Super, the penalties for guessing wrong on him just got much worse.

-Abel's meaty regular command grab beats all of your options on wakeup, including ex spd, super, and ultra. The only things you have that will escape are backdash and jump. Backdash into spd and up jump+HP headbutt->combo->ex hand can punish a meaty command grab.

-Your meaty spd beats all of Abel's wakeup options except his backdash and jump.
AKUMA
A runaway Akuma is NOT like the other shotos at all. It's a completely different match.

-Akuma has teleport. Akuma's teleport is the best in the game b/c the positions are fixed relative to the SCREEN and not the character. He's not like Dictator or Sim where you'll end up back in the corner or right behind your opponent. Any knockdown= free reversal teleport away for an akuma player.
-Akuma has air fb, EX air fb, red ground fb= The air fb's are hard to get around, and the Red Fb can't be focused for free ultra meter.
-Akuma has dive kick- Which cleanly beats lariat at the right height.

Tips:
- Be patient. This match is going to last a long time.
- Don't be afraid to liberally FADC Blue air/ground fb's. I usually FADC one, lariat the next to get health back. You may only get 1 or 2 shots up close on him, so attempting an ultra is a lot better than attempting an SPD.
- Treasure that EX meter. Because really, EX glove is the only realistic shot you have at getting in and doing damage. Get him coming down from air fb, or going through a ground fb.
- Use St.RH to walk forward while attacking past fierce air fbs. Your goal is to tag him as he's jumping up, or to move UNDER the air fb and tag him on the way down. Trades are your friend. DF+Cr.HK works too sometimes.
- Do not jump or PPP lariat when he has ultra. Trust me. Doing a KKK lariat to bait the ultra may work once or twice if he's looking for it and not paying attention to the sound.
- If their akuma is good at teleporting and you knock him down, gameplan for the teleport reversal. Do Ex glove on his wakeup (backwards teleport), or jump backwards splash->EX glove (forwards teleport). Depending on where he picked to teleport, he could put himself in a worse situation.
- and the most important point:
IF YOU HAVE A DECENT LIFE LEAD, STOP ATTACKING.
---)DON'T MOVE FORWARD
---)FOCUS/LARIAT FIREBALLS
---)BE WARY OF ULTRA SETUPS

- Once a life lead is reached, there is little akuma can do to seriously hurt gief if gief plays smart. What little he CAN do (dive kick, stand rh pressure, ultra/super), involves taking some risks on his part. Since you have almost 50% more life than he does, him taking risks as opposed to you= good.

- Be wary about cornering Akuma. Get too close to him in the corner and he'll teleport out for free and start up his whole nonsense again, so don't get that close. Be at a range where you can ex hand his fb's or annoy him with st. HK or cr.MK, but where if he teleports out you can still backdash and punish him for it. Of course, at that range you have to worry about Akuma doing jump toward into HK hurricane right over your head, but that's also a range where you can do a preemptive st.HK or up jump+headbutt to beat that, and where you can backdash into a green hand or two to catch most of the way up to him.

BLANKA
- Blankas regular ball is focus break

- Rainbow roll has gotta be the biggest focus bait in the game. Focus, dash, punish. Move is only good as EX to get out of the corner and also good when you're about to die, as you can't focus it, and have to figure out which way to block. just assume they'll go for the crossup first, then the normal one. if you correctly block it, free spd.

- If a blanka does a HK "deep" you can lariat it. It's only when he does it high to hit your head that it'll stuff lariat. This applies to nearly every jumping attack in the game that beats lariat. It must be done high. This basically means that they CANNOT continue the pressure on the ground b/c it's not a combo and SPD/Lariat will win. So they have to jump backwards, probably using the same attack and stuffing the whiff SPD/Lariat.

Your options?
First, go into training mode and set blanka on record and do various jumping HK's. Then as Gief, try to lariat them:

1) Block.
Jump in, jump out attacks aren't going to do damage to you unless you panic and spam on lariat/SPD.

2) focus->backdash the jumpin.
Because no sane player is going to jump in to continue the ground game against gief and thus break the focus armor, this is a good option. It also gets them to think about jumping in deeper or continuing a ground chain to break your focus, and those are good things, b/c they can be countered. Also, free Ultra gauge is good.

3) Block the jump in, counter the jump back.
This is just theory fighter, but if you block the jump, you should be able to EX glove and get closer to the jump back attempt.

4) Cr.MP
A really underrated AA. it can even snag people crossing you up.

- don't do meaties or meaty crossups, up ball beats them for free
- jumping toward/back MK beats horizontal balls for free
- don't throw out many lariats, Blanka can punish them with slide or horizontal ball
- depend more on normals to push Blanka back, if you see that he's not charging you can go for max range jumping MK
- Blanka's st.MP beats your st.MP and LP from a certain range, but your low moves like cr.MK/HK beat it, and obviously ex hand does too
- when footsying with LP and LK, don't forget to always buffer the LP/LK into ex hand
- if you have him cornered, watch out for ex rainbow roll, which he can maneuver to get out of the corner

- Throwing for blanka is a really bad idea, as that will ONLY beat straight block or EX SPD. Any other move by gief (SPD, Cr.LK, EX 360+k, Ultra, Super) beats blanka's 3 frame throw.

- gief is able to punish Blanka's upball midscreen. Blanka has to be point blank (pretty much reversal distance), and Zangief is much better off if he stand blocks. A reversal HP Glove or EX Glove should hit blanka out of the air after you block the ball. You know it works b/c HP glove doesn't normally knock down, but in this case it does.
- BTW, to setup this range post SPD, it is better to do the MP glove than the LP one. Your timing has to be tighter though, it's basically a 1 frame leeway.

- Headbutt isn't very practical against horiz ball. Jump back MK beats it clean though, but you have to predict it (i.e. can't really react to it)

- You shouldn't be trying to jump in on electricity. It'll trade or beat most jump ins.

Counters for electricity are:

---) Cr.HK (either DF or D)- make sure just your foot hits
---) EX glove
---) jab spd.
---) ultra/super (gotta be really close)

- If you can block ultra on startup, gief can do anything. Only consistent way to land ultra after Blanka's ultra is to do an immediate cr.mk and buffer a 720 into that.

- To beat Horizontal Ball, Lariat (if you see it coming) or use cr.LP xx LP hand. This puts Blanka into a flip state and he'll land right next to you point blank.Then you get a Mixup:

Block/Throw/Cr.LK

1. Block Beats Upball (which at this range you can punish w/ glove if you block standing) and Ultra.

2. SPD/Ultra/Super/360+K works often if you catch them unaware. (the first time you do this, try to use ultra)

3.Cr.LK beats jumping, and the startup of horizontal ball. Jumping LP also beats ball.
BOXER (BALROG)
Okay, a few things to do here is to realize what beats what.
- Lariat loses to headbutt (after your second rotation)
- lariat loses to ex-dash upper
- lariat loses to Cr.HK from a distance.

The key to the Boxer match is to do PPP lariat AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE. Rog's jump HK, Cr.HK, and headbutt beat it clean, and it stays out too long.

There are several keys to this match.

- know when he's charged for headbutt.

- When he's holding db, he's charged. DO NOT JUMP or LARIAT. Either will lose clean and you'll get hit by ultra.

- know the range of his best AA, cr.HP. Jump at a "magic range" where if you do nothing or do j. D+LK, his AA will whiff, allowing you to spd. But if you do J.MK or J.HP, you will hit him. Again, only jump if he doesn't have a down charge.

- Do not try to PPP his jump HK. You will lose and eat his full combo. Instead, block and see what he does. If he continues the ground combo, exploit holes w/ KKK lariat or SPD. If he jumps back immediately while attacking, do EX Glove and grab him when he lands.

- When you are both standing and jockeying for position (i.e. no headbutt charged), KKK lariat beats everything rog has. Beware the EX Rushes though, sometimes they will beat you, sometimes not. Be Especially wary of EX overhead, as it leads to the most damage. If you time your lariat right, he'll take double damage.

- When you land an SPD, do immediate LP glove over, then do one of three things:

1) SPD BEATS: Block, Normals
LOSES: Headbutt, Jump Back
2) Block BEATS: Headbutt
LOSES: Jump Back, Throw
3) Ex hand BEATS: Normal, Jump Back, normal headbutt
LOSES: Block, EX headbutt
Note: Doing an immediate EX Green Hand will put you UNDER Balrog so you can grab him.

-And most important..if you have a decent life lead. (i.e. a fierce's worth) STOP MOVING FORWARD. Boxer now needs to take risks in order to win. Start looking for overhead rushes and Jump HK's and countering appropriately.

CAMMY
Play defensively and let her come to you. Then react as follows:

- Spiral Arrow: Block and during block animation buffer SPD. Always works and beats out her cannon spark that comes right after. But ONLY if you buffer during block animation. Do it too late and you'll eat leg. Also, if she does it from a range where just the tip of her foot hits you, you will not be able to punish.

- Cannon Spark: Block then do one of the following...

---)EX Hand
---)Step forward and HP hand
---)Down Forward+HK

- Hooligan Combo: Currently inconsistent strategy against it. Don't try to jump attack, a good cammy will throw you. Waiting late and relying on invincibility frames of Lariat usually gets you thrown also. The most consistent strategy I've done against it is to just jump away when she gets near. Still experimenting with Lariat at max range and other options. Cr.MP may stuff this as well. (confirm?)

CHUN LI
- When Chun is crossing you up, you pretty much can't do anything but block. When she does the cross over jump you'll have to just block because if you mess up in punishing it, you'll be hurting.
- Most of the time chun won't even want to be near gief.
- When you knock her down, she can wake up EX Bird to stop your crossups or meaty attacks.
- A late back jump+MK or late up jump+HP Headbutt will stuff wakeup EX bird. TIMING MUST BE PERFECT.

CLAW (VEGA)

C.VIPER

DHALSHIM
It's hard to get in on Sim, but it's doable. There's no need to be hasty about it, and actually being hasty can get you basted. Jumping at bad times and places will get you AA'd and walking forward at bad times or places will get you St.HP'd (stretchy arms). Your goal is to push Sim into the corner.

On the ground, psychic lariats can knock Sim out of his far limbs, sometimes trading (which is fine for you because you win on damage and get a knockdown). Far Cr.LP and St.MP beat far St.HP from Dhalsim. If you block a far St.HP, you can do reversal green hand to move forward while Sim is recovering, and then you'll get hit by something because Sim recovers sooner than you do, but as long as you don't get hit by super that's worth it because it gets you and Sim closer to the corner.

In the air is where you can really move forward though. It's basically a big wheel of options where both characters have answers to the other one's options, it's just a question of which one do you expect your opponent to do. If you jump from 2/3 screen with early jumping MK, that beats all of Sim's antiair options except his neutral jumping MP. If you jump from 2/3 screen with early jumping HP or jLP, that beats neutral jumping MP and St.HK but loses to slides and low punches. If you jump from there with nothing (ie empty jump), that'll lose to all regular AA's but beat slides and low punches.

If you jump from a range where if you attack, it'll just barely hit Sim or Sim will just barely get back+HK/MP on you, you have a much stronger guessing game. From there, jumping LP can beat back+HK and jump MP but loses to slides and low punches. Jumping early HP, same thing. Jumping early MK usually loses to back+HK and jump MP but stuffs slides and low punches. Now, if you jump from that range with an empty jump, all of Sim's grounded AA's will whiff because you're just out of range, you'll block his slides, and you'll block his low punches, each of which scenario results in you getting a free SPD (this still loses to Sim's jumping MP).

Getting spd is great for damage, but also great because it moves Sim towards the corner and you get another free wakeup situation. Regardless of how you get in, once you get in, you eat him alive. Lariat beats all of his regular options except backdash and teleport, and if you have him cornered, it also beats that. It's like a very limited guessing game that's wildly in your favor: lariat, which beats everything but block and punish, and spd, which beats block and punish but not teleport or backdash.

DICTATOR (M.BISON)
- With headstomps, mixup between:
---)jump->up+HP Headbutt
---)backdash
---)crouch lariat (trade) xx EX hand
---)focus.
NOTE: This is only for normal headstomps. EX headstomps, just block.

- On wakeup, watch out for EX stomp or teleport. HP Splash on wakeup makes stomp whiff, Lariat beats teleport.
- With Devil's reverse, focus and punish.
- If he's Devil's reversing toward the corner, just walk forward, he's doing your work for you.
- Start up of Lariat beats all versions of Scissor Kick
- Lariat beats all versions of Psycho Crusher clean

E.HONDA
- Lariat stops all variations of Flying Headbutt and start up of Super/Ultra
- Lariat also beats startup of Sumo Splash
EL FUERTE
The wakeup guessing games are ok, pretty even I would say. Fuerte has the advantage each time, but since Gief does so much more damage when he guesses right and doesn't take much damage when Fuerte guesses right, they probably come out to about even. If Fuerte pushes his luck once you have ultra/super, well, that's pretty stupid of him.

Wakeup Guessing Game:
Fuerte does Run->splash
BEATS: Jump, low block, forward dash
LOSES: Focus, backdash, Stand block, EX hand
Fuerte does Run->grab
BEATS: Focus, block, forward dash
LOSES: backdash, jump, EX hand
Fuerte does Run->splash/grab aimed at Gief's back
BEATS: backdash, jump
LOSES: forward dash, Ex hand
Fuerte does Run->splash/grab aimed at Gief's front
BEATS: forward dash, EX hand, jump
LOSES: backdash

There's a crapload of options here, so it's nowhere near a 50/50. It's a wheel of options like an extended rock-paper-scissors where some options lead to damage, some lead to escape with one character having the advantage, and some lead to escape and neutral advantage. But more of Fuerte's options lead to damage than Gief's do, so while Gief's damaging options are more damaging when he lands them, the probably damage output tends to even out.

Thing is though, Fuerte doesn't have to do wakeup games at all, he can get by on controlling the pace of the match. Fuerte's really good at running from Gief and even at zoning Gief out, so it can be hard for Gief to actually deal damage. There isn't really a good spot for Gief to stand or anything, I mean even when he gets Fuerte near the corner, Fuerte can just wall jump or fake wall jump out. The only places Gief has an advantage are when Fuerte is waking up and when he's right up on Fuerte in the corner, but both of those situations are hard for him to force.

FEI LONG

GOUKEN
«13456750

Comments

  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    GUILE
    Gief has the advantage, b/c once he gets in, it's pretty much over.

    - If he's chucking booms from full screen, feel free to gain some Ultra meter by focusing, but pay attention for EX Booms. They're way too fast to decently react to. Just watch the EX meter. Pay attention to the MAGIC RANGE where you can jump over a boom and jab SPD.

    - If Guile doesn't have EX meter, nothing on the ground will sufficiently beat jumping MK. Flash kick trades or gets stuffed, and cr.HP is the same. Also, using Cr.HP is dangerous b/c of the empty jump->spd threat. Alot of Guiles will jump back mk/hk instead. That's fine, you're gaining position and working them to the corner.

    - Against any guile who spams Cr. HK, EX Hand or Jab SPD (if in range). That move sucks and all scrub guiles use it. You punish between the first and second sweeps. You are out of block stun between them, but he's committed to doing the second sweep already.

    So, block one sweep->EX hand.

    The second sweep is safe on block, but it doesn't matter, b/c the move is not good at all.

    - Guile has weak crossup defense. Flash Kick gets stuffed, EX flash kick commonly goes the wrong way, and ultra is way too slow. Take advantage of this by mixing up these options when he gets up. His best answer is usually to just hold up back, gameplan for that.
    ---) HP Splash->whatever
    ---) LK Knees-> whatever
    ---) Empty Jump->Cr.LK->whatever
    ---) Empty Jump->SPD/360+k

    - EX Flash Kick Will knock you clean out of lariat from a good distance away, so don't spam it. Not like you ever should.

    The real reason I think Gief wins this fight is because of the damage differential. Guile's damage comes from Sonic Booms and EX Flash Kicks, while gief can take relatively huge risks all day without fear of much punishment. You gotta be patient, but the W will come in the end.

    KEN

    ROSE

    RUFUS
    Zangief probably wins this fight 6-4. Rufus needs to be close to do damage, and he doesn't want to be close to Zangief b/c of lariat/SPD. Rufus can't really abuse dive kick b/c deep lariat will at least trade with him. Rufus will get most of his damage from EX messiah kick, throws b/c you're afraid of EX messiah, AA's and cr.FP. Let's talk about them, shall we?

    **Rufus Cr.HP**

    Cr.LP is the best solution, either preemptively or on reaction if you are out of range. Buffer into LP glove ON HIT to close the gap quickly and grab Rufus with a jab spd. I've actually had this work against a good rufus in a tournament.

    Cr.HP is -14, so if Rufus misranges, it can be punished w/ EX hand. If he only hits with his hand, you can't really get over to him, even w/ kara glove. Try just walking forward and using cr.LP's.

    **EX Messiah Kick**
    Always be aware of Rufus' meter and your opponents tendency to use this move. Safe players only use it w/ 3 stocks to FADC the flip kick. Some players mash it out during poke strings. Other players will throw it out after one of Rufus' many safe moves (dive kick, galactic tornado, Messiah kick sweep ender, etc). Baiting this move and punishing it is how you beat Rufus. Thankfully, Gief has PLENTY of options.

    LK ender- flip kick
    -This ender is used to end if Messiah kick hits.
    -It is also used to FADC backwards if it is blocked and Rufus doesn't want to be punished. EX Messiah->LK ender-> FADC backwards is still -7 on block, so if YOU are cornered, you can punish him with a St.MP, Cr.LK, or St.LK, since it doesn't push you back.
    -It can be delayed to not combo. This will beat lariat and focus, but will now lose to Ultra/Super/EX SPD. This is why you shouldn't just spam lariat/focus.
    -It is horribly unsafe and leaves rufus close. You can spin the stick during the flip to bust out ultra when he lands, or your choice of punishment.

    MK ender- sweep
    -loses to early lariat
    -loses to focus attack
    -loses to early grab/ultra
    -safe on block.

    HK ender- Overhead
    -Loses to PPP lariat
    -Loses to focus attack
    -Is punishable by super/ultra on block (it's -1 on block, better get that REVERSAL)

    As you can see. Any of these options can lead into guaranteed ultra/super for zangief. Without 3 stocks of meter, Rufus is taking a HUGE risk.

    **Rufus AA's***

    Are incredibly good, especially w/ meter. The up palm normal on the ground, St.HP, j.HK into snake strike or ultra, EX Messiah, and EX Snake strike are all really good options. Don't jump. You don't need to, and it's going to hurt if you do.

    **Dive Kick, Dive Kick/Dive Kick, EX Messiah/ Dive Kick Throw Mixup**

    Block the dive kicks low and try to crouch tech on reaction. EX Messiah cannot hit your Cr.LK if you are crouch teching. Eating throws are preferable than eating a divekick combo->ultra or being hit w/ EX messiah->FADC ultra.

    Conclusion:
    Rufus will get his damage from AA's, punishing stupid lariats/spds, throws, and really risky offensive setups (like w/ dive kick or random messiahs).

    Zangief will get damage from normal pokes (Cr.LP, St.MP) and punishing Rufus's attempts at doing damage.

    RYU

    SAGAT
    Yeah, against Sagat, especially online, Gief will have trouble. A lot of the things you have to do are on reaction (NOT PSYCHIC), and to be honest, a lot of this match counts on ex hand at a sweet distance.

    The basic strategy at the beginning matchup is simply try to walk up to the Sagat. Assuming he will turtle, he will zone you with St.HK or FB's and eventually get on his side of the screen, okay, so now this is where I stop being obvious and tell you how to win this.

    Assuming you're on the opposite side of the screen and Sagat is FB spamming, you need to do one of two options:
    1.) jump over low FB's or KKK lariat (only at the very end of the screen).
    2.) Cr.mk under high FB's to get closer.

    Options from about 60% of the screen are these:
    1.) Creep forward slowly, blocking FB's over and over.
    2.) Forward Jump->Forward/Back HP at max range trades or beats Sagats St.HK. NOTE: Don't abuse this too much.

    - The main pressure for Sagat here is that you're eventually going to guess right and jump in or cr. mk enough to get close to him. If you predict that he's going to do a low FB, and you jumped in before his FB, you're already about at your sweet spot range. Now, let's continue.

    Take option 1 and do your best to get into your sweet spot.
    The sweet spot will be defined as:
    Just outside of St.HK range where you can punish it with ex hand and his FB's. When you're at this range, do nothing. Let him get nervous and see if he spams St.HK. If he's doing that, then you know you're in the right position. Remember, the idea here is for a knock down.
    ---) If he jumps at you in attempt to knock you down, crouch lariat or Cr.MP.
    ---) If he tries to St.HK, ex hand.
    ---) If he tries to FB you, ex hand.
    NOTE: You HAVE to be looking for these options when you are at your sweet spot. This is critical.

    - The key, however, to all of this is to pressure sagat enough into going into the corner. Once he's in the corner, you need to lay it on him and keep him grounded. Don't jump in at him. Just watch him and wait for an opening.
    - Since you're close, you can pressure with St.MP and keep moving in with it, letting him block each St.MP as you get closer. Do it fast, and pause sporadically to wait for any nervous attacks like a tiger uppercut.

    - Okay, so now, let's say you got Sagat knocked down (in or out of the corner).
    Some dirty tricks you can do with Sagat are:
    ---) Late crossup->HP splash beats regular uppercut and whiffs through ex uppercut
    ---) Cross up deep LK knees->tick throw
    ---) Cross up deep LK knees->combo (gief's bnb's might be difficult for most, so do crossup->cr. lk->lariat)
    ---) Or jump so LK knees hits his head (this way, he can't tiger uppercut you because of his angle), and if he blocks or if it hits him (while he's not jumping of course), spam your 720 as you land. If it hits, assuming that he's not jumping, (and it's relatively easy given Sagat's height.), by the time you land, you'll already be ready to 720, and he will be out of hit/block stun.

    - Teach him not to jump after a knockdown by doing cross up->lariat combo. But I guess, most of all, you just need to observe the Sagat and see how he plays before you decide on whether he falls for tick setups or lariats more.

    If you block a Tiger Uppercut->FADC the sagat can do 1 of three things:

    1.) Focus Attack
    2.) Dash Forward
    3.) Dash Back

    - EX hand beats all 3, Lariat/SPD/Super/Ultra beats 1 and 2.

    FADCing isn't a "get out of jail free" card, as you cannot cancel into block. You can even use the block stun from the uppercut to buffer a 720 and bust it out during the dash forward, since most sagats dash forward instead of the safer backwards.

    - don't do random lariats, since Sagat can punish the recovery on both lariats with both FB's and (worse) tiger knees; only do KKK lariats on reaction to low FB's from far away
    - FADCing through FB's is also risky, he can mix them up well and you'll probably take damage at some point in getting in
    - when footsying with LP and LK, don't forget to always buffer the LP/LK into ex hand

    Some of you might be confused with Zangief's cr.HK. He has two version:
    1) Down + HK.
    2) Down forward + HK.
    The second one has the most range and you should be using that version to trip Sagat.

    - To counter Ultra, just dash toward while buffering a 720 inside the dash
    SAKURA

    ZANGIEF (Mirror Match)
    - Jumping up+HP Headbutt beats lariat from max range and at the height where your head is about at the same level as Gief's hands (i.e. pretty close to the ground). If he wakes up with ex hand, you'll have recovered in time to block it.

    - If you do ex hand xx fadc and it's blocked, your opponent can get a free spd on you because you're still in range and don't recover as quickly as your opponent does.
    - Ex hand is always unsafe if blocked in this matchup, even if you FADC out of it.

    - Ex hand loses to PPP lariat clean. Because of this and its unsafeness on block, ex hand should only be used on reaction to super laggy things like Cr.HK

    - Ex hand can beat ultra. It loses to every other throw, from normal throws to command grabs.

    - St.HK always beats lariat from max range

    - Crossup HP splash stuffs Lariat if chest of Gief hits opponents head

    - Crossup HP splash trades with lariat if late

    - It's better to play a zoning game, using st.HK, st.HP, cr.HK, and the like. Try not to cross him up if you get knocked down, just do jumping up+HP Headbutt at max range on his wakeup, it's totally safe.
  • WillixWillix FrameData Enthusiast Joined: Posts: 127
    Good work, I really like the formatting work you did.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Awesome! Thanks for doing this.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Thanks so much, this is really great info.
  • PimpUigiPimpUigi End The Hate Joined: Posts: 264
    HP headbutt does more damage and stun, and has the bigger hit box...why aren't people correcting this yet?
    Mike P.
    "Luigi can't win without having sex."
    Sexy Kick!!!
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    HP headbutt does more damage and stun, and has the bigger hit box...why aren't people correcting this yet?

    Where does it say that MP Headbutt has more stun and damage?

    EDIT: I think you were talking about the Zangief section at the end right? I fixed it.
  • Mr SuplexMr Suplex Joined: Posts: 208
    This should be stickied. Its much more concise that the mostronsity that is the Matchup thread.
    Counter-picking is for cowards. Don't be a coward and stick with your fighter!
  • ClydeByrdClydeByrd got da kush Joined: Posts: 520
    You know what also works very well on blankas horizontal ball is quick react empty jump back into SPD/ULTRA. Blanka suckaz fall back into this all the time. If blanka is hanging at the other side of the screen, taunt and wait out a hori ball.

    Remember your PPP Lairat also breats horiball and the EX version. Its 100% beatable if you do it last second. Its snuck by a few times if done early but its pretty safe to do if you see it comming.

    Great Thread though, personally, I dont like the giant matchup threads. Wish it was more acceptable for people to post vs x character threads. Atleast have 1 for each matchup or something. REP +!!!
    ...is overwhelmed with fighting game announcements...
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Please add:

    Cammy:

    Play defensively and let her come to you. Then react as follows:

    Spiral Arrow : Block and during block animation buffer SPD. Always works and beats out her cannon spark that comes right after. But ONLY if you buffer during block animation. Do it too late and you'll eat leg

    Cannon Spark : Block then do the following
    1. 1 EX Green Hands for Free
    2. 2 Step forward and HP green hands
    3. 3 DF.RK

    Hooligan Combo : Currently inconsistent strategy against it. Don't try to jump attack, a good cammy will throw you. Waiting late and relying on invincibility frames of Lariat usually gets you thrown also. The most consistent strategy I've done against it is to just jump away when she gets near. Still experimenting with Lariat at max range and other options


    Also, you Should change the color of the Character names and possibly tab inwards the content t view it easier.
  • ClydeByrdClydeByrd got da kush Joined: Posts: 520
    Please add:

    Hooligan Combo : Currently inconsistent strategy against it. Don't try to jump attack, a good cammy will throw you. Waiting late and relying on invincibility frames of Lariat usually gets you thrown also. The most consistent strategy I've done against it is to just jump away when she gets near. Still experimenting with Lariat at max range and other options

    cr.MP stuffs Hooligan combo.:china:
    ...is overwhelmed with fighting game announcements...
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin

    SNIP: Cammy Strategy


    Also, you Should change the color of the Character names and possibly tab inwards the content t view it easier.

    Cammy strat added. Thanks.

    Suggestions for color?
  • HotSauce_MagikHotSauce_Magik seriously... Joined: Posts: 203
    I think I maybe would rename the thread:

    ZANGIEF'S SPECIFIC CHARACTER MATCHUP THREAD.

    I think you need to make the title as obvious as possible so peeps will realize what it is.




    EDIT: Looks good!
    "A real man will never let his fear of death overpower his honor, his sense of duty to his country, and his innate manhood."
    ~General George Patton
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  • TyroneWilliamsTyroneWilliams Joined: Posts: 29
    I like it.
  • sinepsinep Joined: Posts: 120
    Good stuff saves me a lot of time referencing to the giant match up thread.
  • reaper2507reaper2507 Joined: Posts: 1,066
    lasttime im facing often Runaway Ryus is there a way to trap they if the use hurrican kick to fly above you? i mean honestly its not a hard matchup but its just annoing like hell play "little Akuma" with ryus...
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    If a Ryu (or other Shoto) is hurricaning over you to run from being cornered, you should be able to tag them with a Lariat if you're near mid-screen. Just make it a habit to pause mid-screen when they are cornered. It's a big tell on what they are going to do. Will they jump up and jumpkick back instintually? If they duck it out, there is a higher chance of an SRK or fireball coming. If they hurricane, you can tag with Lariat.

    If you're slightly further than mind-screen, you MIGHT be able to dash back and tag them with lariat. I would just take it as a lesson that when you next approach, he will try to hurricane. You really only need to tag them with lariat once or twice to scare them from trying to hurricane away from you again.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Note when fighting akuma your super can grab him out of his ultra the timing is pretty strict but it can be done. Also a jab spd can grab him out of the ultra as well.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Note when fighting akuma your super can grab him out of his ultra the timing is pretty strict but it can be done. Also a jab spd can grab him out of the ultra as well.

    Honestly I don't think that's a very smart thing to do. It's easier to just jump and avoid the super/ultra and save your super/ultra for a better opportunity.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    yeah not smart but it is cool if or when it works found that out online the other night.
  • ClydeByrdClydeByrd got da kush Joined: Posts: 520
    Honestly I don't think that's a very smart thing to do. It's easier to just jump and avoid the super/ultra and save your super/ultra for a better opportunity.

    Nonno, its best to jump over it and land next to him and punish him with your Ultra for him doing that stupid move in the first place.:nono:
    ...is overwhelmed with fighting game announcements...
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Nonno, its best to jump over it and land next to him and punish him with your Ultra for him doing that stupid move in the first place.:nono:

    From my experience, the Akuma moves too far away from me when they do their special/ultra to SPD/Ultra them, so I just Ex Hand to punish and get close.
  • ClydeByrdClydeByrd got da kush Joined: Posts: 520
    From my experience, the Akuma moves too far away from me when they do their special/ultra to SPD/Ultra them, so I just Ex Hand to punish and get close.

    Really? Its almost standard for me to punish with Ultra. Just jump in the direction he is going. You should be able to do it.
    ...is overwhelmed with fighting game announcements...
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Really? Its almost standard for me to punish with Ultra. Just jump in the direction he is going. You should be able to do it.

    OOOOhhh I see what you're saying...I'll have to try that in more player matches.
  • sinepsinep Joined: Posts: 120
    I found it very easy to catch Blanka's ultra with a whiffed green hand to ultra after his ends.
  • Vegit814Vegit814 Joined: Posts: 449
    I don't know what to do against players who pretty much go into running away the whole ENTIRE match and using nothing but pokes(they don't even bother trying to do combos or get anywhere near SPD range).I pretty much have to chase them the whole entire match.Any tips on dealing with these type of players in general I can beat some of them but it's very annoying to have a single round last the whole timer against these players.
    My youtube channel dedicated to fighters
    www.youtube.com/caj814
  • MastapopoMastapopo REAL TALK, Midol son Joined: Posts: 678
    Thanks for compiling the info in this thread, it rocks!
    Hi, I am a Tekken player.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I don't know what to do against players who pretty much go into running away the whole ENTIRE match and using nothing but pokes(they don't even bother trying to do combos or get anywhere near SPD range).I pretty much have to chase them the whole entire match.Any tips on dealing with these type of players in general I can beat some of them but it's very annoying to have a single round last the whole timer against these players.

    1) Their pokes and limbs extend your SPD rainge. Hence they should ALWAYS be in range. The exception being claw because you can't grab his claw.

    2) Running out of time should always be to your benefit. You have more health than them. Deal more damage than them and let them come to you. If they run away, let them and just build meter with quick Lariat. They will feel the pressure and come to you.

    3) If you're having a hard time chasing, pause and build meter. There's a LOT of time in this game so there's not much to worry about time running out. Once you build meter, you have a nice arsenal of EX Green Hands to close in. Remember, if they jump over your green hands, usually wasting another green hand right after will catch them on landing. Then go back to number (2)
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    abel abel

    I have a similar problem as Vegit, but with a specific character: Abel. I played an Abel that spent most of the match on the other side of the screen, and when I would try to attack, he would hit me with the Wheel Kick, especially jumping in. If I managed to get close, he would stuff me with his Whirlwind Throw. What moves can stop his Wheel Kick? What should I do against this type of super stay-away Abel?
  • rogueyoshirogueyoshi Nothing Comes Easy Joined: Posts: 1,928
    don't be afraid to turtle after you get a life lead vs (non fballer) turtlers.
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    nignagnog: you got punished for your future crimes
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I'd like to add, against Dictator, a late c. long pretty much eliminates his stomp/reverse game. He has a very hard time hitting you with purple hand/reverse when you toss it out there as he comes down.
  • Mr SuplexMr Suplex Joined: Posts: 208
    I don't know what to do against players who pretty much go into running away the whole ENTIRE match and using nothing but pokes(they don't even bother trying to do combos or get anywhere near SPD range).I pretty much have to chase them the whole entire match.Any tips on dealing with these type of players in general I can beat some of them but it's very annoying to have a single round last the whole timer against these players.

    st.mp and st.lk beats alot of the pokes that people use against you if you time them right. Also, try getting in EX green hand range and use that to knock them down. If these people are jumping alot, they likely will have a pattern to their jump. Figure out the timing, and punish them with a lariat, headbutt, etc.

    Lastly, and most importantly, once you have a lead, sit back and let those bitches come to you. I have won many matches against "runners" by getting an early lead and then playing their own game against them. They are so deathy afraid of Zangief that they often won't dare approach you until it is too late. :rofl:
    Counter-picking is for cowards. Don't be a coward and stick with your fighter!
  • Mr SuplexMr Suplex Joined: Posts: 208
    I'd like to add, against Dictator, a late c. long pretty much eliminates his stomp/reverse game. He has a very hard time hitting you with purple hand/reverse when you toss it out there as he comes down.

    what is "c.long"? Do you mean crouching medium punch?
    Counter-picking is for cowards. Don't be a coward and stick with your fighter!
  • MrMojoZMrMojoZ Nomega Joined: Posts: 512
    What moves can stop his Wheel Kick? What should I do against this type of super stay-away Abel?

    I recall seeing s.jab stuffing Wheel Kick.
  • TheGlowTheGlow Inverted Reverse Fall-away Master Joined: Posts: 900 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I recall seeing s.jab stuffing Wheel Kick.

    I read the S. Jab works. Ive had it work a couple times, but sometimes I still eat a foot in the face. This one move is really annoying me hard. Itll even hit me when jumping back sometimes.
  • reaper2507reaper2507 Joined: Posts: 1,066
    there are realy much options against weelkick even headbut on reaktion is possible try it out in trainingsmode and DO NOT PANIC LARIAT ;) thats all^^
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Shotos make for a fun fight with zangief. I've gotten so used to scrubs picking ken, ryu and akuma as counter characters, that it almost seems like an auto win when they pick them. Sagat included. Couple Key points:

    1) Patience, use the entire stage as your ring. Push them into the corner with safe pressure.

    2) If you notice a sagat scrub not alternating tigers high and low, go under the high ones with cr. mk to bait a low to easily jump over. Be mindful of his knee at mid range, his lk knee leaves him safe. If hit by the knee you'll be knocked all the way back to the other side of the screen. The key is pressuring him, not necessarily throwing him. Using his attempts to escape your cornering game and throws as a chance to do safe striking damage. Don't let him wiggle free =P

    2) Ryu's and Kens seem to LOVE the lp hadouken jump in game. If you notice your going to block a fire ball at the perfect distance for him to jump in. simply back dash to get out of max jump-in range(larriat loses from max range). I've caught a ton of ryu's and kens doing max jump ins with backdash spd or ultra/super. You usually see them jump in and automatically sweep. So a backdash spd or backdash jump works well.

    3) Beating annoying pokers takes timing, and that's it. They poke cause they count on you not having the timing to counter it. Take a step back, forcing them to either jump to close distance or do a special. Gief Excels in this guessing game. D/F +HK from distance destroys pokers. It's active frames are amazing, you can float the sweep out there as they get up and unless they perfectly reverse you or block low, they're on the ground again(don't do this when wakeup ultra or super is innevitable). Jumping U+hp stuffs all kinds of intimidating wakeups ppl use. I've stuffed sagats ultra/super, kens hp dp, ryu's dp, cannon spikes etc etc. It's got 12 active frames so it definitely doesn't require complex timing, and not to mention it does 600 stun. If you get the timing to sweep, and add jumping u+hp to your ground game arsenal, pokers die quick. Also, learn your chains, cr. lp 3x-->st.mp is a wonderful chain to give yourself distance to breath.

    4) Once you get completely comfortable with knowing all your options against runners, it turns into fun chasing them, and watching them squirm =).
  • koopatroopakoopatroopa yadda yadda Joined: Posts: 758
    I have a similar problem as Vegit, but with a specific character: Abel. I played an Abel that spent most of the match on the other side of the screen, and when I would try to attack, he would hit me with the Wheel Kick, especially jumping in. If I managed to get close, he would stuff me with his Whirlwind Throw. What moves can stop his Wheel Kick? What should I do against this type of super stay-away Abel?

    I actually lost a match last weekend to backdash wheel kick. The entire match. Guy saw I couldnt deal with it and raped me.

    What i found in training mode is st lp is only if it the wheel kick isnt at max range. So if the abel can get it right where just the tip of the foot, st lp won't work. Obviously lariat doesn't work either.

    To the guy who said headbutt works, you could just do st lp at that range and get a better position with walking up while abel is reset in the air. So you could have a higher risk reward with headbutt and give up positioning for stun or.....

    After looking at frame data and seeing what worked in the match, I would suggest learning the distance where far st lp works.

    In this range use st lp to reset, walk up to jab range spd and punish or just keep walking up.

    If you are already blocking it, st mp will hit regardless of which version of wheel kick they used. I doubt you are in range to do mp lk green hand, cuz if you are in that range, you probably could have done lp to stuff it.
  • reaper2507reaper2507 Joined: Posts: 1,066
    able is just fresch meet for zangief therefore i do not know where the problem is its on of the realy bad matchups for able..

    as i mentioned EVEN headbut stuff it and there is no bad thing in just blocking it ^^able will not chip gief to death..
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Abel is like, Gief's best matchup. He's the inferior grappler, and his pokes aren't all too good.

    SPD is your friend in this matchup.
  • CoopaCoopa I need sleep. Joined: Posts: 1,082
    Thanks for posting up my Sagat vs Gief matchup strategies. Frankly, it will clean up a lot of the clutter fuck on the Zangief forums, since it's so incredibly important and frustrating for a gief to learn. Good job.
    Finestko Streamer, Events Coordinator, and Commentator
    www.twitch.tv/finestko
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Yeah, the Sagat section really gave me some insight on it. Stupid 3-7, if not 2-8 matchups.
  • PimpUigiPimpUigi End The Hate Joined: Posts: 264
    I say we go for this thread to be stickied.

    It's got so much information in the first post.
    Much easier, neater, and organized compared to the currently stickied version.

    Alternatively, just post all that info in the first post from the other thread, if that guy says he'll consistently update it like this guy.
    Mike P.
    "Luigi can't win without having sex."
    Sexy Kick!!!
    Scared to let me have a banner : (
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Very nice post man, top notch. Just one thing though...

    Zangiefs strategy is "being zangief!" He has a move for every situation, his SPD has priority of 80% of moves, banishing flat travels you across the screen in no time, lariat also gives you protection from 80% of moves, his s.HK reaches half way across the screen, not to mention his c.Long HK does the same. He has the most life in the game at 1200, and also is hardest to get stunned.

    Case in point, Zangief is the new CVS2 Sagat/Blanka.
  • lawpnoy1lawpnoy1 Joined: Posts: 3
    Since I couldn't find any Viper strats yet I thought I might share some things I found after playing Victoly's C. Viper at Denjin.

    The hardest part for me was getting in while under a constant barrage of seismic hammer fakes and cancels. What I found very useful was jumping towards her from a long range once you see her hand glow red. If she commits to the hammer, it won't hit u since ur in the air. If she cancels it and does another one, it should give u enough time to land and block most of the time. Both of these situations are in your favor because ur gradually pushing her into the corner which is where you want her. Just don't try to jump after blocking one of those hammers cause the blockstun on that thing is enough for her to catch u with another if u do. Other than that, you're main goal is to slowly work her into the corner. From there, just keep up the pressure and try to find an opening to knock her down.

    Here are a few things that I found that worked very well for me during a few matches:

    -Lariat beats her ex seismic hammer if she does it on wakeup if ur up close
    -Lariat beats/trades her ex burning kick if she does it on wakeup if ur up close
    -Lariat beats/trades her HK xx burning kick crossup shenanigans
    -EX glove is great at the sweetspot distance if she does a seismic hammer
    -Don't get too close to her in the corner yet unless you score a knockdown, otherwise viper will just superjump out over ur head. I found that keeping ur range at the ex glove sweet spot was good. If they try to jump out, u can meet them in the air with a headbutt. If they flinch or make a mistake, ex greenhand.

    -Once knocked down, try doing lariats to try and beat most of her wakeups and then when they get scared of doing wakeups, you can:
    -SPD/Atomic suplex if they stay grounded
    -jab/short->bnb if they try to jump

    That's about all I got for now. Let me know what you guys think or if these things worked or didn't work for you. Hope it helps for anyone having trouble with good vipers.

    Until next time... -spins away arms extended-
  • crapfacecrapface Joined: Posts: 605
    You can KKK lariat her seismic hammers. That's another option.
  • crapfacecrapface Joined: Posts: 605
    I think we need more information on Dhalsim. His standing HK has ridiculous priority. He just baits a jump and does HK all day long. I couldn't even beat it out with an early j.mk. I ended up just empty jumping and try to land outside of the HK's range.
  • TemujinTemujin HAND OF GOD Joined: Posts: 661
    Can you guys give me some pointers on my zangief ?

    Here's a vid vs. Ryu :

    "I'm good.. but I'm not talking shit. Now if I were to say I wasn't good.. THEN I'd be talking shit." - Heero
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    This is a great thread. I added some of the info the the zangief section of the shoryuken wiki.
    http://shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Zangief_(SFIV)
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Can you guys give me some pointers on my zangief ?

    Here's a vid vs. Ryu :


    The one thing I noticed in that video is that you like to do LK knees on cross up.

    I would suggest doing the HP Splash more than the LK knees because it does more damage and stun.
  • CoopaCoopa I need sleep. Joined: Posts: 1,082
    Can you guys give me some pointers on my zangief ?

    Here's a vid vs. Ryu :


    You need to add st. mk to your footsie war. It beats cr. mk from a shoto, which makes it good just for that. Try doing st. lk buffered into ex greenhand (a bit risky, since it's obviously hard to hit confirm, but if you have enough meter to fadc out, then try it for the obvious knock down). Jumping lk is fine, I'm assuming you use it for ticks like I do, that or you're a bit afraid of a shoryuken fadc into ultra. That on topic though, you use very few tick throws. Try mixing it up by adding cr.lp -> SPD or something. Don't try to whiff a roundhouse when it's flaming obvious you want an ultra. You jump a bit too much, but against a Ryu with no ultra or fadc, I suppose that's fine. For the most party, pretty by the book, meaning you got a solid enough Gief.
    Finestko Streamer, Events Coordinator, and Commentator
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