"Put down the Flowchart, Scrub!" Ken Video Thread

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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Interesting Ken vids.
  • j0nsj0ns Thrive or Strive? Joined: Posts: 235


    Ed Ma's Ken. Hits a couple of sick ex tatsu combos.
    "Well played. Religion just killed another person." - House M.D.
  • DecestationDecestation Joined: Posts: 58


    Ed Ma's Ken. Hits a couple of sick ex tatsu combos.

    I wish I had that kind of recovery luck on those:sad:
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I wish I had that kind of recovery luck on those:sad:

    If only I had sticks... Sadly, I have to settle with my PS3 D-Pad; which isn't too bad, but it sure does leave blisters and nasty calluses.
  • SixColtSixColt Joined: Posts: 196


    Ed Ma's Ken. Hits a couple of sick ex tatsu combos.

    Is Ed Ma still maining Ken? I heard he played his last tourney as Akuma.
    Vega // Makoto
  • khayrikhayri Got That Glow... Joined: Posts: 907
    ^Hey, dont u use Vega (maybe another character)? I think I playd u a few times in championship mode
    "None of you seem 2 understand, Im not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me!"
    "Haha!, I threw that shit before I walked in the room!" - Black Dynamite
  • OmniCloudOmniCloud Peacemaker Protégé Joined: Posts: 839
    Is Ed Ma still maining Ken? I heard he played his last tourney as Akuma.
    he said he's just experimenting..but I think he still mains him.

    Call me a scrub or newb or complainer all you want, but even the top players are saying Ken needs his TC fixed asap...Ken's small arsenal of moves shouldn't be nerfed in any way.
    "Every man must be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath"
  • nguyendudenguyendude Joined: Posts: 16
    Funny videos. lol
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    HAHA I played that black hawk guy a while back. He didn't do the 30 second time limit thing though. He had like 900 bp or something. I guess he got real far with that new "technique" of his. But yeah, it's not like he didn't have five rounds to realize what was happening and play conservatively. He shouldn't have gone for that ultra at the end. He let hawk get his goat.
  • highluluhighlulu Joined: Posts: 3,778
    ran into these video's from EC throwdown:

    ken v sagat:


    oh snap it's dr. chaos:


    Umvc3 - (Nova/Frank/Dante) (Nova/Spencer/Strange) (Zero/Doom/Vergil)
    SF4 - Cammy, Ken
  • OmniCloudOmniCloud Peacemaker Protégé Joined: Posts: 839
    Sagat is so gay...lol I'd never use him...Dr. has the best poking I've ever seen. He plays like Tiba, except Tiba likes to poke with MP more...Chaos likes lp, lk
    "Every man must be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath"
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    He seemed to be playing very apprehensively. Not following through with a lot of strings because he was afraid/expecting a Sagat DP counter.

    Playing safe is a rule of thumb. But sometimes we have to just go for it and to keep maxing out that damage. As we see above - it's hard trying to get in. So once we are... have to have a good think about what we choose to do with that limited time.

    Many players will try to throw out random FA's to counter Ken's f+mk. We need to be ACTIVELY looking for this. Especially against Ryu and Sagat.
    Ken's TATSU has armor break. His ex.TATSU is extremely fast.

    They FA to punish and stop us from f+mk. We cannot allow this as it is our greatest striking asset. We need to stop them from FA's. Punish any silly random FA's from the opponent with TATSU. This will in turn prevent them from constantly using FA... and will leave us more opportunity to spam f+mk.
  • highluluhighlulu Joined: Posts: 3,778
    They FA to punish and stop us from f+mk. We cannot allow this as it is our greatest striking asset. We need to stop them from FA's. Punish any silly random FA's from the opponent with TATSU. This will in turn prevent them from constantly using FA... and will leave us more opportunity to spam f+mk.

    this is a excellent point, i'll need to work on this a lot to keep those focus's down lol.

    edit: oh and i geuss we need to start looking out for that nasty move from sagat; fadc'ing a fireball during zoning to punish a neutral jump... tis evil
    Umvc3 - (Nova/Frank/Dante) (Nova/Spencer/Strange) (Zero/Doom/Vergil)
    SF4 - Cammy, Ken
  • WantonxWantonx Mooseknuckle Sammich Joined: Posts: 2,111
    i'm with you on this. I've totally decided after my last tourney Ken is my main and this is a problem against sagats. I faired ok though. crossup ex tatsu ultra ftw!!!
    Having seen Cool Runnings a bunch of years ago, I consider myself a certified bobsledding expert
    XBL : Racetract
  • Mr. Basara!!Mr. Basara!! Satsui no Flowchart! Joined: Posts: 783

    Many players will try to throw out random FA's to counter Ken's f+mk. We need to be ACTIVELY looking for this. Especially against Ryu and Sagat.
    Ken's TATSU has armor break. His ex.TATSU is extremely fast.

    They FA to punish and stop us from f+mk. We cannot allow this as it is our greatest striking asset. We need to stop them from FA's. Punish any silly random FA's from the opponent with TATSU. This will in turn prevent them from constantly using FA... and will leave us more opportunity to spam f+mk.

    I'm glad you mentioned this. I was getting creamed by a guy who was basically spamming focus attacks. I started reading him a bit and using EX Tatsus... It was really hard (even with a four bar connection, we had quite a bit of lag), but I was able to punish when I had EX. However, when I didn't have ex meter, I didn't know what to do. Would RH Tatsu work as well? It just seems to come out so slow that I would think their attack would just hit Ken in mid air.
    It's like saying "Coke should make green cans. Mountain Dew has green cans, I don't see why Coke has to be this underpowered in can color." -Kich
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Depends on the situation at hand.

    In the event they are outside of FA range and are simply trying to counter your f+mk. Any TATSU will do.
    An ex.TATSU will make certain they have a slim chance to get away.

    In the event they are within FA range and charge up
    1. Keep blocking - very rarely anyone goes to FA3
    2. FADC-bb - escape
    3. Counter FA.
    4. Backdash - to dodge the attack. Used on wake-up FA
    Doing at TATSU at this range is near suicidal.

    option 1: Simple and 100% defensive. If they make FA2- keep composure and ready your option select defense or go for the counter DP xxFADC (if you have the bars)

    option 2: Don't want to be involved in the mind games? Have a life lead and just want to get some breathing room? This is a good escape option - works with cross-ups and defense against many characters special attacks in general.

    option 3: This is the mind games for high level japanese players. They tread this line of bait, defense, escape and counter all in one simple action. Keep in mind that any player can dash-in and out at any point, try to make FA3, or absorb and counter the opponents FA. This is something I'm working on

    option 4: On wake-up when the opponent charges FA and you don't know if he is going to backdash or strike - this is a good option. Saves you from whiffing your reversal fp.DP and look like an absolute flaming douche [pun].

    There are many options for many different situations. It's up to the player to decide.
  • Mr. Basara!!Mr. Basara!! Satsui no Flowchart! Joined: Posts: 783
    Thank you for the advice. I need to be more intelligent about my defensive options. I'm usually just thinking about pressing forward: life lead or not... I don't know how I ever win matches...

    I keep forgetting we have guilty gear back dashes now! :D

    Gunslinger, is it a viable option to back dash after an EX Tatsu? RH Tatsu? I keep trying to OST throw, but sometimes I still get reversal shoryued... Maybe I just suck at mashing things out. I'm just trying to get another option after Tatsu going, so the people I normally play with will have more to think about.
    It's like saying "Coke should make green cans. Mountain Dew has green cans, I don't see why Coke has to be this underpowered in can color." -Kich
  • highluluhighlulu Joined: Posts: 3,778
    dp will beat a throw after tatsu's every time, even with ex tatsu's frame advantage the dp will still win. that being said if you just block one or 2 of those they stop trying to throw them after your combo's :P
    Umvc3 - (Nova/Frank/Dante) (Nova/Spencer/Strange) (Zero/Doom/Vergil)
    SF4 - Cammy, Ken
  • Mr. Basara!!Mr. Basara!! Satsui no Flowchart! Joined: Posts: 783
    dp will beat a throw after tatsu's every time, even with ex tatsu's frame advantage the dp will still win. that being said if you just block one or 2 of those they stop trying to throw them after your combo's :P

    I know dp will beat a throw. If I'm 100% sure they will throw (or I have a substantial life lead) I'll shoryu or neutral jump to counter their throw attempt. But, unless I have the two stocks of meter to burn for FADC, I don't feel comfortable throwing in a shoryu after a Tatsu.
    It's like saying "Coke should make green cans. Mountain Dew has green cans, I don't see why Coke has to be this underpowered in can color." -Kich
  • Dr.ChaosDr.Chaos TokyoTea Boss Joined: Posts: 1,081
    If they are in FA range you can always Low forward then tatsu. Doesn't even have to be Ex Rh works fine. If they try to back dash they still get hit. And if they let it go you get the full RH tatsu including the start up knee and its a counter hit.

    Against Sagat I try to use F+mk only after I'm inside doing strings, since from afar S.Rh and his C.fierce beat it pretty bad.
    -America's Cowboy
    -MvC = Greatest Game Ever

    -Av by Streak
  • OmniCloudOmniCloud Peacemaker Protégé Joined: Posts: 839
    If they are in FA range you can always Low forward then tatsu. Doesn't even have to be Ex Rh works fine. If they try to back dash they still get hit. And if they let it go you get the full RH tatsu including the start up knee and its a counter hit.

    Against Sagat I try to use F+mk only after I'm inside doing strings, since from afar S.Rh and his C.fierce beat it pretty bad.
    yeah I was getting kicked upside my head playing this Sagat the other day with S.RH, and if your close it hits twice--sheesh...

    but yeah, does Ken's s.RH an option in this situation? I'm trying to use it as a poke, but it's pretty slow, I dunno if it's really gonna make a difference...

    Tks for the suggestion too...I'm gonna try and use lk-Tatsu as my official FA stopper. In the end, this is a big reason why I lose to Sagat/Gouken/Akuma/Ryu players.

    I have been successful with doing a RH-overhead on wake-up! Timed right, it's pretty unexpected. And it's good for turtles too. Tks for the tips Gunslinger!

    btw Dr. Will lk-Tatsu beat out a lvl 2 FA? That's really what most players hold it too...
    "Every man must be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath"
  • Dr.ChaosDr.Chaos TokyoTea Boss Joined: Posts: 1,081
    yeah I was getting kicked upside my head playing this Sagat the other day with S.RH, and if your close it hits twice--sheesh...

    but yeah, does Ken's s.RH an option in this situation? I'm trying to use it as a poke, but it's pretty slow, I dunno if it's really gonna make a difference...

    Tks for the suggestion too...I'm gonna try and use lk-Tatsu as my official FA stopper. In the end, this is a big reason why I lose to Sagat/Gouken/Akuma/Ryu players.

    I have been successful with doing a RH-overhead on wake-up! Timed right, it's pretty unexpected. And it's good for turtles too. Tks for the tips Gunslinger!

    btw Dr. Will lk-Tatsu beat out a lvl 2 FA? That's really what most players hold it too...

    Usually when you are close enough where the focus will reach and if you try and tatsu and they release at the same time you usually trade but you won't crumble you'll just spiral to the other side of the screen.

    Thats why when your close like that you should just low forward then rh or ex tatsu for max damage. My xbox died so you have to try if lk tatsu works from fa range.

    I would only throw out a Rh or Ex tatsu if they were out of focus range and just trying to bait you into it. If they back dash I don't think a lk would reach.
    -America's Cowboy
    -MvC = Greatest Game Ever

    -Av by Streak
  • highluluhighlulu Joined: Posts: 3,778
    If they are in FA range you can always Low forward then tatsu. Doesn't even have to be Ex Rh works fine. If they try to back dash they still get hit. And if they let it go you get the full RH tatsu including the start up knee and its a counter hit.

    Against Sagat I try to use F+mk only after I'm inside doing strings, since from afar S.Rh and his C.fierce beat it pretty bad.

    i was wondering why you threw low forwards so many times... but that makes perfect sense
    Umvc3 - (Nova/Frank/Dante) (Nova/Spencer/Strange) (Zero/Doom/Vergil)
    SF4 - Cammy, Ken
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Here's a match i had yesterday v/s a Feilong who used lots of focus attacks, it seemed like no matter how short he held it, he got a crumple:

  • Mr. Basara!!Mr. Basara!! Satsui no Flowchart! Joined: Posts: 783
    Here's a match i had yesterday v/s a Feilong who used lots of focus attacks, it seemed like no matter how short he held it, he got a crumple:


    I think even a lvl 1 focus attack will cause crumple stun on counter hit. Unfortunately, I think its almost a reasonable strat for Fei to spam his focus, since it's so good. If you see him doing that, Tatsu a bit more, or use your c.shorts and c.jabs up close a bit more.
    It's like saying "Coke should make green cans. Mountain Dew has green cans, I don't see why Coke has to be this underpowered in can color." -Kich
  • crimsonsoncrimsonson Joined: Posts: 127
    Here's a match i had yesterday v/s a Feilong who used lots of focus attacks, it seemed like no matter how short he held it, he got a crumple:


    (no offense intended)

    You need a ground. You barely poked at him. Fei is very quick so you need to keep him in check. He was basically poking you to prepare for his follow ups (Rekka and DK).

    Regarding FA -
    Counter will always lead to crumple even at lvl 1.
    A simple lk/lp mashing at close range will beat FA 1 counters easily.


    HTH
  • WantonxWantonx Mooseknuckle Sammich Joined: Posts: 2,111
    was my first tourney match maining ken. Pay no attention to the ryu match lol, I don't use him really, just trying to scrub out a win on my buddy. On the ex tatsu ultra thing, the next two matches it worked like a champ but I just flat out fucked it up those 2 times. i still suck with him but it seems to be steeping up each day and ken is just fucking fun to play.
    Having seen Cool Runnings a bunch of years ago, I consider myself a certified bobsledding expert
    XBL : Racetract
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Here is one of my matches from yesterday. I make some mistakes, (FADC->ULTRA) but I am still learning. I would love some feedback for sure.

  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    was my first tourney match maining ken. Pay no attention to the ryu match lol, I don't use him really, just trying to scrub out a win on my buddy. On the ex tatsu ultra thing, the next two matches it worked like a champ but I just flat out fucked it up those 2 times. i still suck with him but it seems to be steeping up each day and ken is just fucking fun to play.

    First of all. I have no doubt that in the future when you attempt high damage combos - you will get them. As you are practicing and trying them... you can only get better.
    > So your execution isn't that great. If I was playing you - I would be spamming dp during your strings. "practice makes perfect"

    Secondly. Major problem- match ups. Sure Ken is naturally aggressive - doesn't mean you have to be. When fighting Honda you should be turtling and only pressing the advantage... WHEN THERE IS AN ADVANTAGE. Otherwise go full screen and FB. Too many times you FB at midscreen.
    > Honda's have a tendency to 'headbutt' when you jump back. Look for it and set-up a ULTRA. And on the topic of jumping back... was it really necessary to do it so often? What's wrong with simply walking? Atleast you can anti-air when you walk. Need to make Honda afraid of jumping.

    I'd say don't worry about ULTRA set-ups. Focus on combat. And focus on being 'safe'. Too many risky moves versus a much stronger Honda. You need to hit him a lot more than he needs to hit you.

    Game deciding tips versus Honda.
    1. You have a f+mk... he doesn't. You can strike at will from the ground. He is slow and cannot advance effective against you. Stay grounded

    2. His headbutt hurts. But against Ken... he loses out. After a mp/fp headbutt (anything past midscreen) you get a free f+mk on him during his recovery. He gets chip damage on you blocking... you get more damage from kicking him.

    3. Full screen FB's as annoying poke damage. They don't win the game... but they add a small edge. Once he gets mid-screen... just turtle with hit and run f+mk. You can punish his jumps and you can counter his headbutts. His only option left is to FA and attack or buttslam. Buttslam requires charge and FA is a gamble.
    Here is one of my matches from yesterday. I make some mistakes, (FADC->ULTRA) but I am still learning. I would love some feedback for sure.

    Good match, monkeyman.
    First of all: You made some mistakes.... but so what? Everyone does. You play fine - and will improve on your own. You know what you want to do and try for it... soon enough you will be executing flawlessly- making any assault you do very fear worthy by an opponent.

    As for judgement. I'm only nitpicking here because there isn't really much to criticize besides judgment and execution. Execution is solved by practice. Judgment by experience. But just in case you missed it...
    1. Work on better countering his double-sweep. I get hit heaps by them too... but seriously - it's so damn flawed that I curse myself everytime it hits me. We shouldn't be getting hit by it! It's a flowchart Guile move.
    2. When in a corner - composure and patience. First instinct everyone has when put in a corner is to 'jump'. Therefore - DON'T DO IT! Only time you jump is with a launching TATSU to get the hell outta there. Otherwise... just poke and be patient.
    Which leads on to one more 'judgment' thing- more of a reminder- don't get too f+mk happy at close quarters. It's effectiveness is reduced and it becomes a very flawed move.

    So yeah - all just nitpicks because there isn't really too much to say besides the obvious 'this could of been a bit better'. You know what you can work on.

    Now watch the vid analysing the Guile. You are a good level ahead of him. He wasn't being a turtle and he wasn't also trying anything too fancy. Just trying to be solid. He didn't try anything fancy - yet still so effective? A reminder that we don't need to be flashy... just solid.
    When he gets better - I'm guessing he's going to be an 'assault Guile'. Now that's a HARD MATCH! Sonic boom riot shield charges and then high damage combos. And Guile has a crazy mix-up game of his own!
  • crimsonsoncrimsonson Joined: Posts: 127
    Here is one of my matches from yesterday. I make some mistakes, (FADC->ULTRA) but I am still learning. I would love some feedback for sure.


    You did well. Good to see you use Tatsu combos instead of SRK.
    But you did miss punishing that Flash Kick in round 2. A bnb SRK combo would have finished the round (unless that was an execution mistake meant to be a c.mk SRK combo).

    Yeah don't get frazzled in the corner with Guile. Simple pokes and feints or just a air tatsu will get you out of it. He is charge character and needs his special moves for any decent combos.
    A simple throw will stop a wake up FA attack or you could have gone for a FP SRK when he tried to FA or jab mash. If blocked FADC it and back throw his ass in the corner.
    At that positioning has much more limited options.
  • JintyJinty Joined: Posts: 96
    Some guy recorded matches of me playing him and uploaded them to youtube and someone else told me he put them up. All of them are ken vs ken.

    http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=2D9AE1228864C3F1
    I build meter before I go to sleep so I can wake up super
  • JoeMastersJoeMasters Awaken ! Joined: Posts: 452
    Some guy recorded matches of me playing him and uploaded them to youtube and someone else told me he put them up. All of them are ken vs ken.

    http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=2D9AE1228864C3F1

    lol I can hear the moron mashing srk as your doing block strings.
    Avatar by SASMASTA !
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    1. Work on better countering his double-sweep. I get hit heaps by them too... but seriously - it's so damn flawed that I curse myself everytime it hits me. We shouldn't be getting hit by it! It's a flowchart Guile move.

    It looks so much like his cr.mk that I get confused sometime, and everytime I do I kick myself because of it. Your advice about the f+mk is really good, I think I was just overusing it that day, and I think I learned my lesson. It does make you extremely vulnerable to low attacks.
    Good to see you use Tatsu combos instead of SRK.

    Yes! Tatsu does more damage. Plus with an OST it can be relatively safe.

    Thanks for the tips guys!
  • crimsonsoncrimsonson Joined: Posts: 127
    Yes! Tatsu does more damage. Plus with an OST it can be relatively safe.

    Thanks for the tips guys!

    Tatsu combo's generally do less damage (about 10% less). But the advantage to them is really that at the end of the combo it resets and allow you to apply non scaled damage like a throw or c.lk combo.
    Also it also can give you better positioning as it pushed your opponents further back than SRK.
    SRK is a good combo, especially if you need a KD but many Ken players forget the other option that can be as good, sometimes better.


    Jinty - good stuff. Will watch more later.
  • khayrikhayri Got That Glow... Joined: Posts: 907
    I need to work on my Tatsu combos...Wassup Joe!, lol.
    "None of you seem 2 understand, Im not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me!"
    "Haha!, I threw that shit before I walked in the room!" - Black Dynamite
  • JintyJinty Joined: Posts: 96
    lol I can hear the moron mashing srk as your doing block strings.

    Yea lol, atleast it teaches me to block more during my own block strings.
    I build meter before I go to sleep so I can wake up super
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Hey! Don't call me a moron. If a blockstring-counter-SRK work there is no reason NOT to do it. Specially if you know your opponent likes to throw...

    Though, since the games with Jinty I have evolved my playstyle, I use tatsu-combos more often as punishment and after crumples, but I still like the standard combos ending with a SRK (specially after a crossup, c.lp, c.lp) since a f.srk gives perfect distance for a crossup or a masked crossup which my play heavily depends on. After a f.tatsu we get a reset but also a guessing game since we are -1 (+1 on Ex-tatsu tho). Depends on the character I play against and how many Ex-bars they have, more then 2 and you can count on a reversal attack instead of throw or block.

    However, I have uploaded over 200 videos of my matches on my Youtube-page http://www.youtube.com/tlshadowitch

    Keep in mind that I have a lot of distractions during many of the games since I have wife and kids, and that my play has improved pretty much since I started recording in late april (if you watch "old" videos). I'm also aware of that I have some executionproblems but all in all Im pretty satisfied with my Ken and I'm evolving all the time. But I would sure like some inputs from you guys. If I would recommend some videos on the site I would say the matches against Mbolibombo (overall one of swedens better fighters) and Yagami.

    Some examples:

    <--- Ken vs Ken mirror vs Mbolibombo

    <-- also a Ken mirror match, whats up with those? :) against evildancer, theres some swedish chitchat in the background, apoligize for that :)

    <-- vs Yagami's Ryu, I put up a pretty good pressure-game

    <--- Yagamis Dhalsim, close but Im not patient enough :)

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5aulZ7GDEs <-- vs Yagamis dhalsim again. Managed to catch him :)

    Impressions?

    edit: Im up for challenges on PSN, nick EndySWE, EU-players prefered ofc but I have had some great matches against americans with good connections. In the g-1 rank there's like 90% americans so I have do adapt :)
  • highluluhighlulu Joined: Posts: 3,778
    Hey! Don't call me a moron. If a blockstring-counter-SRK work there is no reason NOT to do it. Specially if you know your opponent likes to throw...

    i think they are just pointing out that with you doing it so much your kinda asking to get baited by purposefully ended strings.
    Umvc3 - (Nova/Frank/Dante) (Nova/Spencer/Strange) (Zero/Doom/Vergil)
    SF4 - Cammy, Ken
  • Mr. Basara!!Mr. Basara!! Satsui no Flowchart! Joined: Posts: 783
    I know what you mean about distractions. My little one likes to get in front of the TV, pull out the ethernet cable (luckily only in player matches), and press buttons on the controller while I'm pressing them.

    Aw well... She's gonna be better than Ed Ma pretty soon. :D She can c.jab like nobody's business.
    It's like saying "Coke should make green cans. Mountain Dew has green cans, I don't see why Coke has to be this underpowered in can color." -Kich
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    i think they are just pointing out that with you doing it so much your kinda asking to get baited by purposefully ended strings.

    Well ofcourse, but as I said, I'll do it as long as it -works-. If I notice that the one I play with counter it I will stop, but as long as I land the SRKs on a throwattempt/missed link there is no reason not to do it, is there? It's all about adapting.
  • WantonxWantonx Mooseknuckle Sammich Joined: Posts: 2,111
    First of all. I have no doubt that in the future when you attempt high damage combos - you will get them. As you are practicing and trying them... you can only get better.
    > So your execution isn't that great. If I was playing you - I would be spamming dp during your strings. "practice makes perfect"

    Secondly. Major problem- match ups. Sure Ken is naturally aggressive - doesn't mean you have to be. When fighting Honda you should be turtling and only pressing the advantage... WHEN THERE IS AN ADVANTAGE. Otherwise go full screen and FB. Too many times you FB at midscreen.
    > Honda's have a tendency to 'headbutt' when you jump back. Look for it and set-up a ULTRA. And on the topic of jumping back... was it really necessary to do it so often? What's wrong with simply walking? Atleast you can anti-air when you walk. Need to make Honda afraid of jumping.

    I'd say don't worry about ULTRA set-ups. Focus on combat. And focus on being 'safe'. Too many risky moves versus a much stronger Honda. You need to hit him a lot more than he needs to hit you.

    Game deciding tips versus Honda.
    1. You have a f+mk... he doesn't. You can strike at will from the ground. He is slow and cannot advance effective against you. Stay grounded

    2. His headbutt hurts. But against Ken... he loses out. After a mp/fp headbutt (anything past midscreen) you get a free f+mk on him during his recovery. He gets chip damage on you blocking... you get more damage from kicking him.

    3. Full screen FB's as annoying poke damage. They don't win the game... but they add a small edge. Once he gets mid-screen... just turtle with hit and run f+mk. You can punish his jumps and you can counter his headbutts. His only option left is to FA and attack or buttslam. Buttslam requires charge and FA is a gamble.

    I like you lol. Constructive criticism that actually helped me step my game up a bit hours after reading it. Thanks! You on XBL?
    Having seen Cool Runnings a bunch of years ago, I consider myself a certified bobsledding expert
    XBL : Racetract
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Well ofcourse, but as I said, I'll do it as long as it -works-. If I notice that the one I play with counter it I will stop, but as long as I land the SRKs on a throwattempt/missed link there is no reason not to do it, is there? It's all about adapting.

    I agree. You do what it takes to win. If mashing works....do it. When it stops to work - stop it and try something else.
    I don't blame flowchart Kens at all. It probably was working very well for them for the first few months- why should they stop?
    My only problem with it (mashing) is: wouldn't it be difficult to FADC if you are mashing? As you're not sure when your DP will come out.

    Option select is being more safe. Mashing is going for the big gambling pay-off. They are both logical tactics. Some people don't like the idea of throwing or punishing dizzy. Medieval thinking won't cut it in this day and age. You do what it takes to win: throwing, punishing and mashing your way to the top.

    Whatever it takes in the laws of the game.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    FADC is really not a problem when mashing out a SRK in the middle of opponents string, for several reasons:

    1. If the SRK lands as a counterhit it will send the opponent flying, if you miss the FADC it's not THAT big of a deal since you got him KDnd, if you on the other hand land the fadc - ultra you will get the full ultra, win-win.

    2. If you land the SRK early but not as a counterhit it must be FADCd on the 2nd or 3rd hit to be effetive and that actually gives enough time to react accordingly to the situation.

    3. If you land the SRK late at a long distance the range will mostly send the opponent flying, as all 3 hits in the f.SRK doesn't land but only the last which sends them flying you'll likely miss the FADC but still get a KD. win-win in any case.

    4. If the SRK is blocked you just FA and dash either forth or back depending if u want to get out or be aggresive.

    Oh and btw I think the comparison to flowchart Kens are awfully wrong. There is a HUGE difference in spamming SRKs all the time without any hitconfirms and trying to land SRKs in the opponents combo-strings.

    But as I said before, the SRK-reversal on strings is only a viable tactic as long as your opponent falls for it (specially if you don't have 2 ex bars for a possible fadc). It's all about adapting to the other persons playstyle.
  • highluluhighlulu Joined: Posts: 3,778
    I know what you mean about distractions. My little one likes to get in front of the TV, pull out the ethernet cable (luckily only in player matches), and press buttons on the controller while I'm pressing them.

    Aw well... She's gonna be better than Ed Ma pretty soon. :D She can c.jab like nobody's business.

    for me it's my damn cats... and sometimes the strays that they will attract to my apartment lol.
    Umvc3 - (Nova/Frank/Dante) (Nova/Spencer/Strange) (Zero/Doom/Vergil)
    SF4 - Cammy, Ken
  • Mr. Basara!!Mr. Basara!! Satsui no Flowchart! Joined: Posts: 783
    for me it's my damn cats... and sometimes the strays that they will attract to my apartment lol.

    LOL. My gf would love you. God, does she love cats... And strays... Makes my skin crawl...
    It's like saying "Coke should make green cans. Mountain Dew has green cans, I don't see why Coke has to be this underpowered in can color." -Kich
  • DullyannaDullyanna mm hmm... nope Joined: Posts: 1,160
    LOL. My gf would love you. God, does she love cats... And strays... Makes my skin crawl...

    I advise learning a few delicious veitnamese/chinese recipes.
    "Making Yun strong on purpose was naturally a dick move"

    "3S is a hidden gem."

    "SFIV series... kept the matches very technical because there was very few downtimes, even when you are dominated."
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin



    for all on the flowchart.....
    happy i can help :smokin:
  • highluluhighlulu Joined: Posts: 3,778



    for all on the flowchart.....
    happy i can help :smokin:

    lol so that's 5 nearly 6 abel ultra's in like 15 minutes... that dude is AWESOME!

    i mean clearly you were just really cheap using the ultra's glitchy frames on him!
    Umvc3 - (Nova/Frank/Dante) (Nova/Spencer/Strange) (Zero/Doom/Vergil)
    SF4 - Cammy, Ken
  • crimsonsoncrimsonson Joined: Posts: 127
    That dude should just use Ryu.
  • nguyendudenguyendude Joined: Posts: 16
    lol. grasshopper will learn.:rofl:
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