Seth Q&A: Ask simple questions here!

SosageSosage Mopping Up Your SaltJoined: Posts: 1,797 mod
I noticed you poor Seth players are missing one of these threads, so here yah go. Go at it.
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Comments

  • ChrisisChrisis Follows her path Joined: Posts: 7,684
    I've been to places that said no Seth and no Gouken. People just get scared of them really quickly since they weren't playable in the arcade version. Most places that know what they're doing don't seem to have that though.
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  • retryretry Animus 3.0 Joined: Posts: 473
    Anything SRK related will not be banning any characters at this point. Little stores that aren't in the hardcore community will likely be banning Seth just because they're too lame to unlock him.
  • KINGKING あなたの母親の膣 Joined: Posts: 2,589 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    What makes Seth supposedly really good? Is it the rediculous stun damage?
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  • ChrisisChrisis Follows her path Joined: Posts: 7,684
    I think that on the lowest levels people assume that since boss Seth can do some ridiculous things for good damage that he's totally kick ass and they think boss = instaban. Then at a separate level covered in the gootecks podcast and other places, if he has ultra and you're at full screen, you're going to eat it unless you have a move that changes your air trajectory since he can jab boom then if you fireball to cancel it ultra, jump it he can ultra, FA he can ultra, other super armor moves he can ultra etc.

    He's very good at limiting a lot of opponents options in certain situations. If he gets in a preferred spot with a preferred set up even more of your options than against Dhalsim are gone and that is very painful. He does do high stun damage for barely any gauge, but they aren't that much higher Stun than a more gauge consuming far higher damage dealing combo from boxer or Honda. Definitely not enough to push him to ban status.

    If his Ultra did the damage of anyone else's ultra he would be considerably scarier though since he's one of the few characters who have an ultra that doesn't need to be combod into and thus will do full damage regularly since it in itself is a great tool to counter a lot of things (pretty much everything that doesn't recover super fast regardless of range and great as an anti air.)

    I think that once he gains ultra that as long as the Seth player is competent that should mean a certain chunk of your health is guaranteed to be gone along with all the chip etc from trying to avoid it. This would be far scarier of course if you couldn't combo Seth from over half health to Death with relative ease thanks to his stamina. I think just like against Dhalsim or Zangief as long as you deal with Seth in the right way and don't treat him like other characters you can still beat him just the same as those two.

    Personally I think he's just below the Ryu and Boxer area in overall power for the game. He has great tools for many situations, he just has low health and damage to make up for it.
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  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,165
    What do I do against E. Honda? His normals just kick my ass all the time >.<'
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  • KikuichimonjiKikuichimonji Watch out, I know frame data Joined: Posts: 4,585
    What do I do against E. Honda? His normals just kick my ass all the time >.<'
    This is currently my bitch-ass strategy:

    lp sonic boom, backdash, lp sonic boom, backdash, walljump-> 1 headstomp, lp sonic boom, etc.

    Punish his jump-ins with lp shoryu -> headstomps, and just stay out of range of his buttstomps. Don't get counter-poked while using j.fp. Basically, treat Honda like Gief, only you can't punish his attacks up close and he has almost no way through your projectiles.

    Seriously, I think this match is so stupidly in favor of Seth because Honda has no answer for runaway covered by sonic boom. Honda players, am I missing something?
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  • ChrisisChrisis Follows her path Joined: Posts: 7,684
    Running away does leave Honda with very few options since even on EX his headbutt will just flip back a little bit over a jab boom, I think that's almost more important than the damage it does!
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  • Josh-TheFunkDOCJosh-TheFunkDOC Double Dutch! Joined: Posts: 2,404
    Also, keep in mind that you can punish almost everything Honda can use to get in. Blocked fierce headbutt = MK lightning legs, blocked butt splash = free jab SPD, and other headbutts on block = free super.

    I think this is worse than Zangief vs. Seth, to be honest.

    And in a sense, Seth's ultra does deal as much damage as some other ones. Immediately after landing an ultra, jump forward once - this puts you in a perfect position to go for your ambiguous crossup game. Only a few characters in this game have a real answer to crossups, so most of the time it's a 50/50 shot at more free damage, with mixup possibilities if it gets blocked.
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  • ChrisisChrisis Follows her path Joined: Posts: 7,684
    Wait, who has an actual answer for a crossup in this game?
    Isis is something shiny that likes water.
  • retryretry Animus 3.0 Joined: Posts: 473
    Anyone notice any post-patch tweaks to Seth?
  • KikuichimonjiKikuichimonji Watch out, I know frame data Joined: Posts: 4,585
    Wait, who has an actual answer for a crossup in this game?
    Characters with a teleport, Blanka, Zangief (not on wakeup), Balrog, and Abel (close s.fp beats everything basically, including crossups)

    I noticed a couple things while playing Seth today. Has seth's cr.fp always only been one hit on block? Also, I think if you do a FA lvl 2 and immediately do a cr.fp after the forward dash, you only get one hit. My execution is horrible today, though, so it might just have been me.
    Domination 101 by Seth Killian - The original blueprint for competitive fighting game thought.

    Maj's Footsies Handbook - It's like the Bible, but for Street Fighter.
  • ChrisisChrisis Follows her path Joined: Posts: 7,684
    If you cross up blanka on wake up sure he hits you but normally once you're on the ground if it was timed safe which with Seth's abilities means a painful punish. Please explain Balrog's as C. Fierce is good but on wake up it will still get destroyed. I had no idea on Abel and when someone teleports with Seth's jump speed he can tag them with standing fierce most of the time, fierce SB some of the time, and ultra rarely.
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  • KikuichimonjiKikuichimonji Watch out, I know frame data Joined: Posts: 4,585
    If you cross up blanka on wake up sure he hits you but normally once you're on the ground if it was timed safe which with Seth's abilities means a painful punish. Please explain Balrog's as C. Fierce is good but on wake up it will still get destroyed. I had no idea on Abel and when someone teleports with Seth's jump speed he can tag them with standing fierce most of the time, fierce SB some of the time, and ultra rarely.
    You never said on wakeup. Also, you can't safe jump blanka. Electricity is + on block and safe-jumping against EX up ball is really hard. As for the teleport, if you do a late cross up they'll just block. If you do it early they teleport out and you don't have time to land and punish. In fact, they actually can start jumping in on you before you land usually.

    As for Abel, don't take that out of context. The close s.fp has balls range, but it's great versus crossups because it hits above his head, only takes 4 frames to come out, and you can cancel it into a roll for a mixup off the reset.

    Almost every character has an answer to an early crossup with EX meter. And those with a command grab have an answer to a late crossup with EX command grab.
    Domination 101 by Seth Killian - The original blueprint for competitive fighting game thought.

    Maj's Footsies Handbook - It's like the Bible, but for Street Fighter.
  • ChrisisChrisis Follows her path Joined: Posts: 7,684
    I assumed when Josh said perfect for cross ups after a knockdown that he meant on wakeup. If you safe jump you should beat electricity, safe jumping on EX up ball is really hard I agree, on teleport however I disagree if they wake up reversal teleport and you were crossing them up at the right point you should definitely have time to punish them with stand fierce. Great to learn about Abel though!

    Again with the command grab, if you aren't at a frame + from a crossup it wasn't done well in the first place.
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  • KikuichimonjiKikuichimonji Watch out, I know frame data Joined: Posts: 4,585
    I assumed when Josh said perfect for cross ups after a knockdown that he meant on wakeup. If you safe jump you should beat electricity, safe jumping on EX up ball is really hard I agree, on teleport however I disagree if they wake up reversal teleport and you were crossing them up at the right point you should definitely have time to punish them with stand fierce. Great to learn about Abel though!

    Again with the command grab, if you aren't at a frame + from a crossup it wasn't done well in the first place.
    I've never beat electricity with a jump-in. Is that possible?

    Also, Abel has no answer to a crossup on his wakeup except maybe rolling away if it's misstimed or he EX's. s.fp is not useful on wakeup.

    The EX command grab isn't done after blocking, it's done on reversal against a 'safe jump.' Your attack whiffs because they are invincible, then you get grabbed when you land. This is most effective with Abel because his command grab is slower so you're more likely to land before it comes out.
    Domination 101 by Seth Killian - The original blueprint for competitive fighting game thought.

    Maj's Footsies Handbook - It's like the Bible, but for Street Fighter.
  • ChrisisChrisis Follows her path Joined: Posts: 7,684
    If you've got bizzlin reactions go for shoryu in those cases otherwise jumping away with a fierce seems like it would smack Abels who go for that fairly well.
    Isis is something shiny that likes water.
  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,165
    Seriously, I think this match is so stupidly in favor of Seth because Honda has no answer for runaway covered by sonic boom. Honda players, am I missing something?

    I play a litle Honda myself, and Projectiles are a pain, yes. I believe Honda is the character with the poorest defence against projectiles.

    But I never spam projectiles, so that's why I'm getting owned XD I'll probably start during this match-up though.
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

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  • JarekovJarekov Thou Art A Bear Joined: Posts: 1,995
    i just started playing seth a couple days ago and my friend whos been maining honda since the dawn of sf came over to play, you can ahnialate honda by SB and back jumping feirce all day, its embarassing. this matchup feels more broken to me then any other matchup in the game, i would imagine dan having an easier time with cyber sagat then honda having with seth
  • Reipin PillageReipin Pillage Lover of thigh highs Joined: Posts: 2,826
    Does Seth have an answer for Guiles air grab?
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  • JarekovJarekov Thou Art A Bear Joined: Posts: 1,995
    Does Seth have an answer for Guiles air grab?

    neutral jump rh has the range to hit him before hes in range, if your jumping forward and he jumps you can divekick to hopefully throw his timing off and avoid it.
  • rexyaresexyrexyaresexy Training Mode Abuser Joined: Posts: 463
    Does Seth have an answer for Guiles air grab?

    Only thing seth can do is to not telegraph it, and *sometimes* I think j.hp if timed right, can stuff guild air throw.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    anyone ever feel like giving up? His health is just ridiculous. It wouldn't be as bad if he was just hard to stun. I mean a Sakura player killed me in ONE ****ing combo. at the start of a math a Gief player stunned me with just one neutral air HP. FFS all Sagat and Ryu players have to do to win the match is just get a lucky shoryuken and it's over. and let's not forget the teleport/srk/ultra/tandem engine nonsense. I'd wager a good 30% of my losses have come from that. Hell even sonic booms can come out as SPDs.
    Seth is the only character in this game I'm truly comfortable with, despite the flaws, but they're getting harder and harder to tolerate. It's like I have to play flawlessly even against far less skilled opponents. </moan>
  • ChrisisChrisis Follows her path Joined: Posts: 7,684
    This is one of the 2 trade offs seth has for being so amazing at everything.Your goal is to either be at perfect health or have ultra, there should rarely be a time between as they can kill you in any state other than those two. Zone when necessary, rush when necessary.
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  • Reipin PillageReipin Pillage Lover of thigh highs Joined: Posts: 2,826
    You have to be close to flawless defensively, you definitely cannot get hit by a combo then try to go rambo on your wakeup, cause if you guess wrong or get stuffed that's stars and game over.

    That being said I've had games where I'm down to no health and have come back to win it.

    You cannot be reckless with him but instead you have to be calculating.
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  • m2davem2dave Joined: Posts: 162
    anyone ever feel like giving up? His health is just ridiculous. It wouldn't be as bad if he was just hard to stun. I mean a Sakura player killed me in ONE ****ing combo. at the start of a math a Gief player stunned me with just one neutral air HP. FFS all Sagat and Ryu players have to do to win the match is just get a lucky shoryuken and it's over. and let's not forget the teleport/srk/ultra/tandem engine nonsense. I'd wager a good 30% of my losses have come from that. Hell even sonic booms can come out as SPDs.
    Seth is the only character in this game I'm truly comfortable with, despite the flaws, but they're getting harder and harder to tolerate. It's like I have to play flawlessly even against far less skilled opponents. </moan>

    Why were you jumping at Zangief at the beginning of the match in the first place? I presume you got countered by the headbutt which results in an immediate stun.
    Just jump back or backdash and there is nothing he can do. The only legitimate way for Zangief to hurt you/to get close to you is when he lands a lucky EX Green Hand through your Sonic Booms. In many ways, this match up is similar to Zangief Vs. Akuma. Just run away all day and make him chase you.

    Aside from that, no one said it was going to be easy. Your defense, execution, and yomi have to be very, very good. Never take unnecessary risks when you do not have to. If you do, prepare to lose a lot with Seth. Part of what makes a good Seth player good is knowing against which characters you can afford rushing a little bit and taking some risks. Characters such as Claw (Vega), C.Viper, Abel, Guile, etc. belong in that category mostly because they either have awful anti-aerial options or poor stamina/dizzy points or all the aforementioned. So, Seth can jump in on them and apply pressure/stun them before they can do the same to him.

    Against Ryu and Sagat, zone and stay away. Most Ryu and Sagat scrubs will try to engage in projectile wars at first. Simply absorb their fireballs (absorb two consecutive ones and avoid the third one by neutral jumping or using the LP Tendem Engine so it passes through you) and build your Ultra Combo. Against Sagat, this is obviously harder to achieve because his Tiger Shots are faster than Ryu's Hadokens. If you have a lot of life, use the Tandem Stream as soon as you get it to punish their fireballs on reaction. Once they realize that their silly tactic does not work against Seth, they will rush in, usually by jumping forward. j.HP will take care of that. They will probably then start using early jumping attacks (i.e., j.MK for Ryu, j.MK/j.HP for Sagat) in order to clip your j.HP. Throw LP Sonic Booms so they land on it or time st.HP so it punishes them once they land on the ground. When you are trapped in a corner and the Ryu/Sagat player is about half screen away, wall jump (and do not do an anti-air attack) the moment they jump in at you. What happens is that by the time they land, you will already be above their heads and land on the other side of the screen. Of course experienced Ryu/Sagat players will not make all of these silly mistakes, but you will easily be able to beat most of them online ranging from 2000GP-6000GP, and of course expect a few hate-filled messages along the way.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Well I appreciate the advice, as others do with the same problems, but the biggest thing holding me down probably is the command thing. It seems to happen almost every match despite me putting in the correct input, I'll even go slow and accurate and I'll still tandem engine instead of teleporting resulting in me losing half my health or more. I'm probably just going to take a hiatus from this game until I get a stick, and if that doesn't make a difference then I guess sf4 isn't for me.
  • Josh-TheFunkDOCJosh-TheFunkDOC Double Dutch! Joined: Posts: 2,404
    Playing Seth forces you to develop that "Justin Wong" mentality. Stay defensive, only take risks when it can reverse the momentum, and choose your moves based on reaction rather than guessing.

    That last one is the most important...to win with this character, you must be able to ultra through jump-ins/fireballs/etc. on reaction, you must be able to DP jump-ins on reaction, and you must be able to EX lightning legs through certain moves (shoto fireballs, Balrog's specials) on reaction.

    My reaction time is nothing special, yet I have gotten pretty good at these things. This is the rare instance where playing online may actually help - if you can react to this stuff with lag, you should easily be able to do it offline.

    Oh yeah, and be very careful with the sonic booms and stand fierces. Those moves do very little damage and can cost you a ton if the opponent jumps over them. I mainly tend to use them at long range, and not even then against some characters (Akuma/Gouken EX demon flip, Chun/Abel ultras, etc.).

    And yeah, SF practically requires a stick to play at high level, unless maybe you use Blanka or someone. =P
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  • Reipin PillageReipin Pillage Lover of thigh highs Joined: Posts: 2,826
    Josh I always see you in champ mode, I gotta play you one day in the first round where it doesn't matter since our connection is 3 bars =[
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  • Shin_Akuma_Shin_Akuma_ AKA Non-SmokeMaster Joined: Posts: 706
    Playing Seth forces you to develop that "Justin Wong" mentality. Stay defensive, only take risks when it can reverse the momentum, and choose your moves based on reaction rather than guessing.

    That last one is the most important...to win with this character, you must be able to ultra through jump-ins/fireballs/etc. on reaction, you must be able to DP jump-ins on reaction, and you must be able to EX lightning legs through certain moves (shoto fireballs, Balrog's specials) on reaction.

    My reaction time is nothing special, yet I have gotten pretty good at these things. This is the rare instance where playing online may actually help - if you can react to this stuff with lag, you should easily be able to do it offline.

    Oh yeah, and be very careful with the sonic booms and stand fierces. Those moves do very little damage and can cost you a ton if the opponent jumps over them. I mainly tend to use them at long range, and not even then against some characters (Akuma/Gouken EX demon flip, Chun/Abel ultras, etc.).

    And yeah, SF practically requires a stick to play at high level, unless maybe you use Blanka or someone. =P

    This is the best advice a Seth player can give you. Your reaction time has to be very good in order to play with Seth. I would like to say my reaction time is very good, but my execution is flawed. Might have to do with playing on pad which makes it harder then those who play on stick. Online doesn't help me as well. It messes with my timing which is essential to pad players. Even if you can react to your opponents moves you have to factor in the execution part which is kind of fucked up with Seth doing random teleports, EX SRK, or Super instead of Ultra.
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  • KikuichimonjiKikuichimonji Watch out, I know frame data Joined: Posts: 4,585
    This is the best advice a Seth player can give you. Your reaction time has to be very good in order to play with Seth. I would like to say my reaction time is very good, but my execution is flawed. Might have to do with playing on pad which makes it harder then those who play on stick. Online doesn't help me as well. It messes with my timing which is essential to pad players. Even if you can react to your opponents moves you have to factor in the execution part which is kind of fucked up with Seth doing random teleports, EX SRK, or Super instead of Ultra.
    Did we ever figure out exactly what causes EX SRK instead of teleport? Is it just time after sonic boom?
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  • Shin_Akuma_Shin_Akuma_ AKA Non-SmokeMaster Joined: Posts: 706
    I have no clue I'm thinking it has to do with a combination of shortcuts, timing, and input delays. Basically the game will not let you do it because of all of these factors blocking the way.
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  • Reipin PillageReipin Pillage Lover of thigh highs Joined: Posts: 2,826
    Can someone who is home go to neutral after the sonic boom then do the motion for the teleport instead of using the finishing "towards" of the boom as the first motion of the teleport?

    I'm just guessing here since that's how I do it.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Any tips on how to get the Ex Shoru to link into an ex tandem? I've done it a few times, but the timings really sketchy and wasting 2 ex because you mistime something like that is brutal.

    Also, what can be done versus dhalsim? Looking into the punish thread, i have no idea how to formulate any sort of strategy versus a good dhalsim.
  • KikuichimonjiKikuichimonji Watch out, I know frame data Joined: Posts: 4,585
    Any tips on how to get the Ex Shoru to link into an ex tandem? I've done it a few times, but the timings really sketchy and wasting 2 ex because you mistime something like that is brutal.
    You need to get six or more hits off the shoryu. From there the timing is actually pretty lenient.
    Also, what can be done versus dhalsim? Looking into the punish thread, i have no idea how to formulate any sort of strategy versus a good dhalsim.
    What's been working for me online is flying around the screen like a crazy man throwing out j.mp to beat his air-to-air pokes. You can cross him up from a walljump and there's not much he can do about it. You can counter-ultra his ultra, too. When he does IAT, either teleport out, shoryu, or ultra.
    Domination 101 by Seth Killian - The original blueprint for competitive fighting game thought.

    Maj's Footsies Handbook - It's like the Bible, but for Street Fighter.
  • m2davem2dave Joined: Posts: 162
    Any tips on how to get the Ex Shoru to link into an ex tandem? I've done it a few times, but the timings really sketchy and wasting 2 ex because you mistime something like that is brutal.

    Also, what can be done versus dhalsim? Looking into the punish thread, i have no idea how to formulate any sort of strategy versus a good dhalsim.

    You can delay the second hit of the EX Shoryuken a little bit. This will push your opponent higher to the ceiling, allowing the EX Tendem Engine to connect rather easily. You do need to connect six or more hits as Kikuichimonji stated. Do not bother using the EX Shoryuken as an anti-aerial attack if you intend to follow up with the EX Tendem Engine. That is too inconsistant to work.

    Against Dhalsim you actually want to be aggressive. There is no point in zoning him because his up close game is awful and Seth can take advantage of that with his superior cross up and tick throw game. Various important notes:

    - sure, Shoryuken, Ultra Combo, etc. beat his Instant Air Teleport, but that is easier said than done because you have no idea which side, left or right, he will teleport on. The easiest and most damaging option that I have found is simply st.HP, which will in reality become Seth's close st.HP when Dhalsim's teleports near you. As soon as Dhalsim appears next to you, just hit HP, and you have just beaten all of his options.

    - when there is Yoga Fire on the screen, neither destroy it with a Sonic Boom nor focus absorb it unless you are full screen away. If you do try to do these two things, you will just get punished by one of his limbs, most likely st.HP because it has the most range. Simply block or just jump back.

    - do not spam too many Sonic Booms, you open yourself to his B'n'B IAT combos, and they can really hurt Seth when Dhalsim ends it with his Super Combo. Also, do not spam st.HP. Dhalsim can punish that move with his own st.HP. You cannot do the same to him, though, because his st.HP is much safer than yours is.

    - wall jumps can be good surprise attacks because they are fast, but if you overuse them expect to eat a couple of anti-aerial attacks, most notably his j.MP and b+HK.

    - Dhalsim players like to jump foward and HP in an attempt to punish you for doing Sonic Booms. You can actually focus absorb his j.HP and crumple stun him (but not cleanly). If you had it charge for level 2, HP Shoryuken is free after it. They also like to jump forward and teleport back. That gives Seth a free ultra/super combo.

    - a lot of Dhalsim players open up rounds with one of their limbs. Absorb it and dash back. You build your revenge meter that way, and the sooner you build your Ultra Combo the eaiser the match becomes because you limit several of his options. His Yoga Fires are particularly easy to punish on reaction with the ultra combo. It may not do a lot of damage, but it lets you get close to him and start your up close game.

    - keep in mind that Dhalsim does not pose a threat when you are full screen away from him. MP and HP Yoga Fires cannot reach you; LP Yoga Fire can but is easily dealt with. Be patient against him and you will be fine. Look for ways to get in, but do not force anything because his anti-aerial attacks are very effective against Seth. Seth's Dive Kick, which can trade with Shoryukens, Tiger Uppercuts, HP Thunder Knuckles, etc., gets beaten effortlessly by Dhalsim's Knee (b+HK) for some reason.
  • Josh-TheFunkDOCJosh-TheFunkDOC Double Dutch! Joined: Posts: 2,404
    As for EX DP vs. teleport, it's actually pretty simple: The game is extremely strict when it comes to detecting simultaneous button presses. If you press one button even slightly later than the others, you get EX DP. This is also why getting super instead of ultra is common.

    It's just something you have to practice. It used to be a big problem for me, but now I've got it down to the point where I can do the teleport mixup after ultra every time.


    And actually, against Sim air teleports, you can neutral jump and land all 3 stomps -> divekick.
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  • KikuichimonjiKikuichimonji Watch out, I know frame data Joined: Posts: 4,585
    As for EX DP vs. teleport, it's actually pretty simple: The game is extremely strict when it comes to detecting simultaneous button presses. If you press one button even slightly later than the others, you get EX DP. This is also why getting super instead of ultra is common.

    It's just something you have to practice. It used to be a big problem for me, but now I've got it down to the point where I can do the teleport mixup after ultra every time.
    I get EX Shoryu using the PPP button, though.
    Domination 101 by Seth Killian - The original blueprint for competitive fighting game thought.

    Maj's Footsies Handbook - It's like the Bible, but for Street Fighter.
  • JarekovJarekov Thou Art A Bear Joined: Posts: 1,995
    I get EX Shoryu using the PPP button, though.

    yeah i get the same thing occasionally. i tried testing out different shoryuken inputs in training mode but couldnt get it to happen.
  • Josh-TheFunkDOCJosh-TheFunkDOC Double Dutch! Joined: Posts: 2,404
    I get EX Shoryu using the PPP button, though.

    Well, I'm a stick guy so I can't really help there. =( Maybe there's something screwed up with the macro, because I never have that happen on stick anymore.

    I do still get super instead of ultra on rare occasion, though, and I've even seen Japanese players do that. What the hell...
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  • m2davem2dave Joined: Posts: 162
    And actually, against Sim air teleports, you can neutral jump and land all 3 stomps -> divekick.

    Ah, nice! That is even better. I will definitely stick to that.

    As for the whole Teleport / EX Shoryuken dilemma, I think that happens because the game does not allow you to teleport behind your opponent immediately after a LP Sonic Boom. So, if you throw out a LP Sonic Boom and attempt to teleport with PPP as soon as possible you will get the EX Shoryuken. This is the only scenario in which I get the EX Shoryuken instead of the teleport. The funny thing is that sometimes when the PPP teleport teleports Seth in front of the opponent you never get the EX Shoryuken. These are just my personal observations.
  • KikuichimonjiKikuichimonji Watch out, I know frame data Joined: Posts: 4,585
    Can you do the close s.hk -> cr.mp link on crouching opponents? I couldn't get it to work on a crouching Seth, and I was doing it all day when he was standing. Should I only use this link off a crumple to be safe? I seriously think the frame data is wrong on the active frames, or at least it automatically hits meaty on a standing opponent.

    I managed to do s.hk -> cr.lp on crouching Seth.
    Domination 101 by Seth Killian - The original blueprint for competitive fighting game thought.

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  • Shin_Akuma_Shin_Akuma_ AKA Non-SmokeMaster Joined: Posts: 706
    I've gotten in the habit of doing st.hk > cr.lp > cr.mp instead of doing cr.mp after st. hk.
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  • TizocTizoc Joined: Posts: 11,406
    OK, excuse this question, but is Seth being 'considered' for Top or High Tier Status? If not among Sagat & Zangief, then maybe under the two?
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Next on the slate: M.Bison. He just continually jumps on my head, and no normal punshes seem to do much. All i can really do is teleport out and dodge him. Allthewhile causing no damage to him while he wears me down. Any good tips for countering him?
  • KikuichimonjiKikuichimonji Watch out, I know frame data Joined: Posts: 4,585
    Next on the slate: M.Bison. He just continually jumps on my head, and no normal punshes seem to do much. All i can really do is teleport out and dodge him. Allthewhile causing no damage to him while he wears me down. Any good tips for countering him?
    The most important thing to realize about Bison is that he has almost no defense other than standing roundhouse (only good reversals use EX and still kinda suck). You can jump in on him and cross him up pretty easily. If you can stay on the offensive, you will win.

    Headstomp is easy to punish, since walking backwards/backdashing will cause it to whiff. J.fp also beats it, and j.mp will usually beat it. You can ultra headstomp on block (even if he doesn't follow up) and you can also ultra Devil's Reverse. If he uses any scissor kicks besides light kick, you can punish with shoryu. J.mp beats most of his shit air-to-air, but don't get caught by his j.mp -> ultra. Just space him and he can't really do anything. Watch out for EX Psycho/Scissors/Headstomp to punish sonic booms, though.

    You can probably punish headstomp on wakeup with teleport in place, now that I think about it.

    This should really be in the matchups thread. If you have any further Q's on this matchup, put them in there.
    Domination 101 by Seth Killian - The original blueprint for competitive fighting game thought.

    Maj's Footsies Handbook - It's like the Bible, but for Street Fighter.
  • retryretry Animus 3.0 Joined: Posts: 473
    OK, excuse this question, but is Seth being 'considered' for Top or High Tier Status? If not among Sagat & Zangief, then maybe under the two?

    Sabin ranks him at top 5, Keits ranks him at #3, Jwong ranks him as #1 (biased as fuck but anyways...), scrubs rank him as bottom tier

    Averaging it out, he's probably roughly below Sagat and Ryu IMO
  • Shin_Akuma_Shin_Akuma_ AKA Non-SmokeMaster Joined: Posts: 706
    Sabin ranks him at top 5, Keits ranks him at #3, Jwong ranks him as #1 (biased as fuck but anyways...), scrubs rank him as bottom tier

    Averaging it out, he's probably roughly below Sagat and Ryu IMO

    The more I play with him the more he becomes #1 in the game. There's so much stuff I'm still finding out about Seth. It just adds more to his arsenal of moves.
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  • m2davem2dave Joined: Posts: 162
    OK, excuse this question, but is Seth being 'considered' for Top or High Tier Status? If not among Sagat & Zangief, then maybe under the two?

    He has been consistantly ranked as one of the top ten characters in the Japanese tier lists. Then you have Sabin (AKA Arturo), who is one of the best Seth players in the United States, claming that the Japanese are arcade-only players, so they would not know much about Seth. Sabin himself states that Seth is a top five character in Street Fighter IV. Then you also have J-Wong saying that Seth is actually the best character in the game, even implying a possible ban. Wong has been known to have a severe bias against Seth, though.

    Either way, if you intend to use Seth, go ahead. He can keep up with any character in the game and is very versatile. That is all that should matter to you.

    @ CrayonOfDoom, Seth's j.HP beats all of Bison's Headstomps. If he is using the Devils Reverse, an Ultra/Super Combo is free no matter where he steers himself except behind you, in which case a LP SPD will be guaranteed most of the time. As Kikuichimonji stated, you can usually rush him fairly well when you get into a good position. He has no Dragon Punch, or anything of that kind, so it is easy to apply pressure. Bison's teleport recovers like ass, by the way.
  • ChrisisChrisis Follows her path Joined: Posts: 7,684
    Also for non reversal stomps I believe you can focus back dash because a Seth with Ultra makes Bison's life suck a lot. Also to note is that his Scissor kick doesn't leave the ground right away and you can SPD that shiz!
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  • EssexEssex hahaha i poast thrad Joined: Posts: 384
    what are some decent setups and good times to use tandem if any? im still on the fence with this move and not entirely sure how to implement it into my game. also what are good follow ups to a blocked jab tandem? any ideas are appreciated.
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