KOF XII System Information

24

Comments

  • Lord BBHLord BBH EASY EASY~ Joined: Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Critical Combo Initiators =
    Below are the CC initiators for each character.
    Far Standing Update: 5/7/09

    Ash Crimson - standing C/ far D
    Duo Lon - standing D/ far B
    Shen Woo - standing C/ far C
    Kyo Kusanagi - standing C/ far D
    Benimaru Nikaido - standing C/ far D
    Goro Daimon - standing C/ far A
    Iori Yagami - standing C/ far B
    Athena Asamiya - standing C/ far C
    Sie Kensou - standing C/ far B
    Chin Gentsai-standing C/ far B
    Terry Bogard - standing C(first hit only) / far D
    Andy Bogard-standing C/ far C
    Joe Higashi - standing C/ far C
    Kim Kaphwan-standing D/ far D
    Raiden-standing C/ far C
    Ryo Sakazaki - standing C/ far D
    Robert Garcia - standing C/ far D
    Ralf Jones-standing C/ far B
    Clark Still - standing D/ far A
    Leona Heidern - standing C/ far D

    Uh, everyone only has one attack that starts a CC. I don't know why you edited in all that additional stuff because none of those second moves listed can actually start a CC
    DON'T JUMP AT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
  • Saisyu KusanagiSaisyu Kusanagi Oppressive Village Pillager Joined: Posts: 1,318
    Uh, everyone only has one attack that starts a CC. I don't know why you edited in all that additional stuff because none of those second moves listed can actually start a CC

    I was hoping somebody would step up and take a look at this with me..on page 034 for the arcadia magazanie right next to the CC starters are normal commands but the word in the top of that row says "reach" so I assumed that they have far standing starters as well or it might be the best normal you can link after CC starter is actived. Your from portland so you could make sense of this inqueri a little better than me by your play exsperence.
    http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4777/53154070.jpg

    I will delete the far standing stuff untill we find what they are reffering to in the book. I do not want to put any bad info out. Thanks.

    What have you seen in relationship to this?

    Pharaonic edit: I read japanese and still could not put 1+1 together, range of contact for the CC starter... duh! I think there saying you do not have to be close to land CC and be able to combo after and they give you the dot-range of the CC starter by the range of the normal that is written down. Please correct me if I am wrong.
    Join Date: Oct 2001
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  • NocturnalNocturnal SNK Supporter Joined: Posts: 2,977 mod
    I'll try to talk more about the clash system stuff once I see what other normals/specials clash first. I'll do more testing on that this Sat.
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  • Dandy JDandy J now you face a super saiyan shaolin Joined: Posts: 2,790
    I got something to test regarding the clash system. You know how you can clash attacks with fireballs? See if you can clash with a fireball and hit someone with the same move. Ie throw a jab fireball w/ Athena from fullscreen, run up into a long-ranged attack that's also hitting your fireball and see if it hits Athena too.
    "The challenge is, how can we create a mechanic where it makes your mistakes not matter and turns the game into a clown show? All these solutions are great but they don't take into account what X-Factor is supposed to do, which is turn the game into a joke."- O. Seth Killian
  • Phoenix AzurePhoenix Azure Joined: Posts: 1,115
    One thing that happened to me was I was ash vs. Kyo. My Sweep clashed with his running grab, i immediately did my super and he couldn't do shit about it.
    SSFIV: M: Adon/Dictator S: Claw
    Blazblue: M:Hazama
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  • Lord BBHLord BBH EASY EASY~ Joined: Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Pharaonic edit: I read japanese and still could not 1+1 together, range of contact for the CC starter... duh! I think there saying you do not have to be close to land CC and be able to combo after and they give you the dot-range of the CC starter by the range of the normal that is written down. Please correct me if I am wrong.

    Yeah I think that's it, they're just grading the ranges for each character's CC starter on a scale of A to D... which is kinda confusing when the same letters are used for attacks, haha.
    DON'T JUMP AT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
  • Dandy JDandy J now you face a super saiyan shaolin Joined: Posts: 2,790
    I added everyone's best CC that I could to this post. I'm pretty certain all of them are correct now. Plus, I put a link on Terry's to Jon doing it at AI. Thanks to him and Kane for uploading matches!

    Unfortunately, Athena, Kensou, and Chin's CCs are too blurry in the scan for me to make out. If anyone has the magazine and can provide a scan or translation of those combos, it would be appreciated.
    "The challenge is, how can we create a mechanic where it makes your mistakes not matter and turns the game into a clown show? All these solutions are great but they don't take into account what X-Factor is supposed to do, which is turn the game into a joke."- O. Seth Killian
  • CrimsonDisasterCrimsonDisaster team anime Joined: Posts: 1,582
    An addendum to the parry discussion:
    You don't attack immediately after the parry frames if they don't hit you, and you are in CH state. So if you expect a b+CD attempt, you can wait, see/hear the parry animation, then CC them for free.
    I only play games with RCs.
  • AnakronAnakron Alpha Male Joined: Posts: 2,391
    One thing that happened to me was I was ash vs. Kyo. My Sweep clashed with his running grab, i immediately did my super and he couldn't do shit about it.
    That usually worked for me during clashes too.
    An addendum to the parry discussion:
    You don't attack immediately after the parry frames if they don't hit you, and you are in CH state. So if you expect a b+CD attempt, you can wait, see/hear the parry animation, then CC them for free.

    Yes, and I love it. :looney: I don't think it's hard to avoid getting CC'd though.
    #SNKPlaymore on rizon
    isn't it funny that capcom put a mechanic called focus into a game designed for people with ADD
  • Rugal 3:16Rugal 3:16 Weisinger's disciple Joined: Posts: 463 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Does CD Fuction like an SF4 Focus attack?
    Kurt Buseik: I am a Marvelite at heart, and I like Thor. So it did pain me to see Thor go down. However, in the depths of my heart, I knew this was the way it should turn out. Not because Superman is THE icon, but because even a post-Crisis Superman would win. Many will bring up Thor's ability to create vortexes and all of the other neat tricks Mjolnir can do, but Thor's history is to head in fist and hammer first, and unless he is on the ropes, Thor rarely utilizes his other abilities. I did find Superman's recognition of Thor as maybe his single greatest opponent an appeasement in light of Superman having died at the hands of Doomsday.

    "As for Superman and Thor, it's like he said -- where he comes from, the dials go up to eleven. Superman is stronger and faster, which is probably more about the scales of power in the universe he comes from, but it was enough to let him win a very tough battle. If they fought again tomorrow, it might go the other way. Since being more powerful doesn't make you a better character, I don't see it as a slight on Thor, just as the way things are..."
  • Saisyu KusanagiSaisyu Kusanagi Oppressive Village Pillager Joined: Posts: 1,318
    Does CD Fuction like an SF4 Focus attack?

    Yes and no.


    If you hold CD down for a certain amount of frames:
    CD fully charged will break gaurd but does not have an auto parry or auto gaurd on it and they can be hit out of it and it has slow start-up.
    Join Date: Oct 2001
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  • Saisyu KusanagiSaisyu Kusanagi Oppressive Village Pillager Joined: Posts: 1,318
    Questions about SouSai:

    #1) You do not take damage if you clash with a projectile?
    Time in vid: 0:37

    #2) If you do not take damage why does Kim in this vid die to Andy's KoHaDan if he had option to cancle or is there a rule about SouSai canceling in the air?
    Time in vid:2:20


    Combo correction:From page 1
    Raiden:"Corner only"
    C shot bomb (charge dbk then fwd)> crounching C> C shot bomb>CD>CD> Raiden Bomb Dp + A or C.
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  • Raph_StrykerRaph_Stryker Living the Life Joined: Posts: 878
    you do take tiny little damage if you clash with projectiles. I watched a full health duo take very minimal damage when he clashed with a power wave. Ive even had a moment where I clashed and got a critical counter, but died from the trade. So it zooms in on my character collapsing with the opponent in hitstun.

    Also, Double KO's with the last characters results in both players losing.
    Not too shabby.
  • AnakronAnakron Alpha Male Joined: Posts: 2,391
    you do take tiny little damage if you clash with projectiles. I watched a full health duo take very minimal damage when he clashed with a power wave. Ive even had a moment where I clashed and got a critical counter, but died from the trade. So it zooms in on my character collapsing with the opponent in hitstun.

    I've had this happen to me as well. Eh, I think it should be fixed. Maybe CCs should do less damage too. Just a though.
    #SNKPlaymore on rizon
    isn't it funny that capcom put a mechanic called focus into a game designed for people with ADD
  • infoseekerinfoseeker thanks Joined: Posts: 278
    I was playing and clashed a fireball and was sure that I didn't see any damage go down. I actively looked for it too and this was from full health.

    Maybe I was confused lo
  • Saisyu KusanagiSaisyu Kusanagi Oppressive Village Pillager Joined: Posts: 1,318
    I was playing and clashed a fireball and was sure that I didn't see any damage go down. I actively looked for it too and this was from full health.

    Maybe I was confused lo

    I took a second look at the clash between Terry and Athena and Terry took no damage from clashing with the fireball.

    You will take damage outside of clash contact with a fireball. Thanks guys.

    Terry clashing with Hishoken in the start of round one
    Join Date: Oct 2001
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  • AnakronAnakron Alpha Male Joined: Posts: 2,391
    Remember kids, if you're going to clash with fireballs, do it with a move that'll give you alot of meter!!!
    #SNKPlaymore on rizon
    isn't it funny that capcom put a mechanic called focus into a game designed for people with ADD
  • MOB712MOB712 Joined: Posts: 1,245
    I thought it was always known that you didn't lose health when clashing. I mean wouldn't it be useless if you did??? You'd be better off just blocking.

    The same way your health comes back if you don't get hit after you absorb a hit using FA in SF4
  • Saisyu KusanagiSaisyu Kusanagi Oppressive Village Pillager Joined: Posts: 1,318
    I thought it was always known that you didn't lose health when clashing. I mean wouldn't it be useless if you did??? You'd be better off just blocking.

    The same way your health comes back if you don't get hit after you absorb a hit using FA in SF4

    Time in vid:2:20



    That wasn't what I was concerned about, I saw something that just did not make sense for the same situation. Kim died during clash state unless they did not clash but you would seen both charcters go into the hit animation at the same time. All I saw was Kim die and Andy finished his Kouhadan clean but he lost life but still did not go into flipout animation if it had been a true trade.




    Pharaonic edit: I just work out the clash system:
    normal clash normal: Lose life
    special clash special: Lose life
    normal clash projectile:No damage loss
    special clash projectile: No damage loss
    special clash normal:Lose life

    Check this old trailer and see these things happing..
    Join Date: Oct 2001
    CRUSH YOUR ENEMY WITHOUT MERCY!!!!
  • MOB712MOB712 Joined: Posts: 1,245
    Time in vid:2:20



    That wasn't what I was concerned about, I saw something that just did not make sense for the same situation. Kim died during clash state unless they did not clash but you would seen both charcters go into the hit animation at the same time. All I saw was Kim die and Andy finished his Kouhadan clean but he lost life but still did not go into flipout animation if it had been a true trade.




    Pharaonic edit: I just work out the clash system:
    normal clash normal: Lose life
    special clash special: Lose life
    normal clash projectile:Lose life [Time in vid 1:05]
    special clash projectile: No damage loss
    special clash normal:Lose life

    Check this old trailer and see these things happing..

    About the bold

    I've seen a vid (can't find it right now) where Andy clashed using normals against Athena's projectiles at least 4 times in succession and didn't lose an inch of life or if he did even after clashing 4 times it was virtually unnoticeable.

    I mean I stared at his health and I swear it didn't even move
  • DiavleDiavle Joined: Posts: 647
    I thought it was always known that you didn't lose health when clashing. I mean wouldn't it be useless if you did??? You'd be better off just blocking.

    Not really, since you can cancel the clash animation immediately into anything.
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  • AnakronAnakron Alpha Male Joined: Posts: 2,391
    Not really, since you can cancel the clash animation immediately into anything.

    Like supers, which is extremely boss.
    #SNKPlaymore on rizon
    isn't it funny that capcom put a mechanic called focus into a game designed for people with ADD
  • CrimsonDisasterCrimsonDisaster team anime Joined: Posts: 1,582
    So any update on Arcadia CCs for Psycho Soldier team?

    -edit-
    Looking at the blurry part of the scans...
    Chin's CC looks like-
    df+Dx3, (leaves you in dd+P stance) [stance P XX dd+P]x2, stance P > CD XX df+BB, QCFx2+P (57%)

    Kensou's looks like-
    QCB+A > QCB+C, QCBx2+P, CD XX QCB+A > QCB+C > DP+D (56%). I've been told of another CC that sounds better (but a bit harder) involving DP+P (mash) but I'll confirm it later.

    Athena's is some mess with C Psycho Balls, hop Ds, and dashing? I don't understand a lot of the terms there so hopefully fubarduck's copy of the latest Arcadia comes in soon =x

    Also I think the Ryo combo on the first page is wrong. Given the way Arcadia transcribes their combos, it would make more sense that the combo is-
    DP+C, DP+C, f,HCF+P, dash DP+C, CD XX HCB+DD, fbf+C
    I only play games with RCs.
  • Rioting SoulRioting Soul Joined: Posts: 4,986 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Do charge specials have to be charged during CC?
  • CrimsonDisasterCrimsonDisaster team anime Joined: Posts: 1,582
    Do charge specials have to be charged during CC?

    yes, or so it would seem

    Also I finally got to see the Arcadia articles in person, the Kensou CC goes more like:
    CC, QCB+A > QCB+C, D XX QCBx2+P, CD XX QCB+A > QCB+C > DP+D

    According to IkarugaDC's translation, Athena CC goes something like:
    CC, QCB+C, dash D XX QCB+C, hop Dx2, D > CD XX QCB+A, HCBx2+P

    Don't have the magazine personally, so this is mostly from memory. Should have taken notes :looney:
    I only play games with RCs.
  • Dandy JDandy J now you face a super saiyan shaolin Joined: Posts: 2,790
    Charged CD attacks are cancelable with specials, so someone please try:

    Charge CD, cancel asap into command throw or super command throw with Raiden/Daimon/Clark.
    "The challenge is, how can we create a mechanic where it makes your mistakes not matter and turns the game into a clown show? All these solutions are great but they don't take into account what X-Factor is supposed to do, which is turn the game into a joke."- O. Seth Killian
  • Raph_StrykerRaph_Stryker Living the Life Joined: Posts: 878
    that would work at the right distance, but with Clark and Daimon its better to cancel their charged CD into either command hop into command grab/super or command roll into command grab/super respectively, just so you don't risk being too far away.

    With Raiden, i think shoulder tackle is the way to go, but if they are close enough, command grab away.

    And for the real reason im posting:

    so after extensive testing, yes you can cancel a special cancellable normal into a Roll (A+B). I have had no success emulating that after a C+D though. It looked fishy when I had seen it happen when random people played, but after trying it out for myself, yeah its easy.

    Very odd that a feature that normally would cost you one stock has been implemented with no cost.

    And what becomes of Back+CD when I assume that you can roll past it if you see that you had attacked someone who parried your normal.

    A better question is why did they not announce the ability to do this in the system features?

    Hmm...
    Not too shabby.
  • DaveNKDaveNK What!? No Avatar!! Joined: Posts: 441
    Can CC be clashed?

    Rather both opponents who have their CC gauge filled and both attempt to CC each other at the same time would they clash?
    VF:5 - Vanessa
    KOF'02:UM - Iori, Kyo, Vanessa, Geese, Terry,
    MBAA: - Ryoga Shiki , Ciel
  • MOB712MOB712 Joined: Posts: 1,245
    Can CC be clashed?

    Rather both opponents who have their CC gauge filled and both attempt to CC each other at the same time would they clash?

    Yes

    If I'm not mistaken all attacks are capable of clashing in some way except for DMs
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Some new scans: http://www.neogeofans.com/leforum/showpost.php?p=711065&postcount=1

    Highest-damage CC for every character: http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/9836/86861171.jpg. I'll 'translate' some more of these later.

    If you need meterless CC, they are on each character's individual page on the sidebar under the yellow text in front of the green background.

    Best CCs - some of these might be a little off but I think they are correct.

    Ralf: d/f+A xx qcb+C, qcfx2+P, d/f+A, CD xx qcb+C, qcb+C, f+C [68%]

    Shen: qcfx2+P, stand C xx qcf+C, CD xx qcf+C~qcf+K, close D [66%]

    Ryo: dp+C, qcf+P, f,hcf+P, dash, qcf+P, CD xx hcb+D~D, f,b,f+C [65%]

    Terry: [65%]

    Clark: [d/f+A xx f+B+D] x3, [short hop C] x2, close D xx d/f+A xx hcbx2+P [62%]

    Iori: [qcb+B] x3, short hop C, stand C xx hcf+C, dash, CD xx dp+C, qcf,hcb+P [62%] <-- I'm pretty sure you're supposed to dash under them after the hcf+C

    Kyo: f+B xx qcb,hcf+P, rdp+B, CD xx qcf+D~D, hcb+K [62%]

    Joe: [f+B xx hcf+A] x2, [short hop D] x2, close C xx CD xx qcfx2+P [61%]

    Ash: b+D, dash, [b+B] x2, [short hop D] x2, close D xx CD xx charge b,f+C, qcfx2+K [59%]

    Leona: f+B, [charge d,u+A] x3, jump, qcf,hcb+P [59%]

    Robert: f+B xx f+A xx dp+C, dp+A, dash, dp+A, CD xx qcf,hcb+P [58%]

    Andy: f+A xx qcb+A, f+A, [short hop D] x2, close C xx f+A xx qcb,hcf+K [56%]

    Duolon: [f+B] x3, j.B, j.D, close D xx qcb,hcf+P [56%]

    Kim: [charge d,u+B] x3, qcb+B, CD xx qcb,d/b,f+K [56%]

    Raiden: charge d/b,f+C, crouch C, [charge d/b,f+C] x2, CD, CD xx dp+P [54%]

    Benimaru: [f+B] x3, short hop B, short hop C, close C xx qcf+P, qcfx2+P [53%]

    Daimon: close C, [close D] x5, [short hop C] x2, close C xx hcbx2+P [48%]

    This maybe or is a noobish question but what does the xx mean???
  • Dandy JDandy J now you face a super saiyan shaolin Joined: Posts: 2,790
    It means to cancel. Anything without it just means to wait until the last move finishes, then do the next one.
    "The challenge is, how can we create a mechanic where it makes your mistakes not matter and turns the game into a clown show? All these solutions are great but they don't take into account what X-Factor is supposed to do, which is turn the game into a joke."- O. Seth Killian
  • Return of ShikiReturn of Shiki Your favorite game sucks Joined: Posts: 4,419
    I hope rolls have a lot of recovery/vulnerability, otherwise being able to roll cancel normals for free sounds pretty dumb.
    If you listen to fools, the mob rules...
  • funkpandafunkpanda That Man Funkpanda Joined: Posts: 179
    Dont know if this question has been answered yet, but have they done anything to make move inputs easier?

    IE, longer input window for DM's? More input leniency for moves like QCB, HCF? That was a barrier in my entry into the KoF series, Too many half circle motions and the QCB, HCF for desperation moves and stuff just doesn't feel right to me.

    Anyone know if they took time to adjust these maybe?
    TWG FunkPanda
  • DaveNKDaveNK What!? No Avatar!! Joined: Posts: 441
    Dont know if this question has been answered yet, but have they done anything to make move inputs easier?

    IE, longer input window for DM's? More input leniency for moves like QCB, HCF? That was a barrier in my entry into the KoF series, Too many half circle motions and the QCB, HCF for desperation moves and stuff just doesn't feel right to me.

    Anyone know if they took time to adjust these maybe?


    may not have played XII but i doubt that
    VF:5 - Vanessa
    KOF'02:UM - Iori, Kyo, Vanessa, Geese, Terry,
    MBAA: - Ryoga Shiki , Ciel
  • Phoenix AzurePhoenix Azure Joined: Posts: 1,115
    I thought SNK's move inputs (other than all of geese's) were the easiest. Different strokes for different folks.
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  • DaveNKDaveNK What!? No Avatar!! Joined: Posts: 441
    I thought SNK's move inputs (other than all of geese's) were the easiest. Different strokes for different folks.


    Yea geese takes a bit, but I got used to him and I can pull off the raging storm fairly easily
    VF:5 - Vanessa
    KOF'02:UM - Iori, Kyo, Vanessa, Geese, Terry,
    MBAA: - Ryoga Shiki , Ciel
  • RemxiRemxi Mithan's Robe Joined: Posts: 297
    qcb, hcf moves were already pretty lenient in their execution. Up until 2003 you could do qcb, qcf and it'd still come out fine (made it a lot easier to play on keyboard hehe).
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I thought SNK's move inputs (other than all of geese's) were the easiest. Different strokes for different folks.
    You mean KOF, right? Because World Heroes is anything, but lenient or easy.
  • DaveNKDaveNK What!? No Avatar!! Joined: Posts: 441
    qcb, hcf moves were already pretty lenient in their execution. Up until 2003 you could do qcb, qcf and it'd still come out fine

    Actually that still works now, and it's not even specific to SNK's KOF, that works in CvS 1&2
    Rumble Fish

    just from the top of my head

    probably the easiest move in KOF is terry's Power Gyeser ( I mean literally all you gotta do is tap Down Back Forward Punch and it works)
    VF:5 - Vanessa
    KOF'02:UM - Iori, Kyo, Vanessa, Geese, Terry,
    MBAA: - Ryoga Shiki , Ciel
  • Lord BBHLord BBH EASY EASY~ Joined: Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I hope rolls have a lot of recovery/vulnerability, otherwise being able to roll cancel normals for free sounds pretty dumb.

    Throw.

    Also you can only cancel into rolls off light attacks, not hard attacks
    DON'T JUMP AT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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