Plinking / Tsuji-Style: KARA BUFFER Inputs for Easier Links and More!

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  • WarahkWarahk Joined: Posts: 1,104
    I promise it links~

    any strength srk can be used, including ex
    Avatar by Tatsu.
  • TwistTwist RadarTrap Joined: Posts: 698
    f.MP, shoryu only works on standing opponents or if they're crouching then the first hit has to whiff and the second hit has to be a counterhit.
  • WarahkWarahk Joined: Posts: 1,104
    Sorry, i should've mentioned the standing part :sweat:
    Avatar by Tatsu.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Tried this a while ago, but I don't like the extra button press, I would rather get very skilled doing links the regular way. But if not this is a great find.

    Though that instant demon trick should've been kept a secret, Akuma is deadly enough as it is you know :devil:
  • blk_brothablk_brotha Veteran Gamer of FGs and RPGs Joined: Posts: 936
    it's like super dbl. tapping, for example, if i wanted to p-link cammy's s.LK or LP into s.HPXX spiral arrow or Cannon spike i have to do....

    s.LK, (HP+MK) HP~MK to p-link that 1 frame? i still link the 1 framers the harder way.
    I make moves like chess... CHECKMATE!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    tried this on pc version, c.lp -> c.lp -> c.mk~c.lk with akuma, still got a c.lk in the end, tried it for 1 h or so.
    they fixed it? =P
  • ditnditn Joined: Posts: 526
    u pressed it to early and it chained,
    do a small pause and then hit it
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    quite interesting, I will try when I get home tonight. I've been practicing execution in training mode and I have been having problems linking (I am able to perform combos in online matches about 50% of the time)~I get punished for missed links... Thanks for the info
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    2 questions:

    how would you link akuma's: s.roundhouse -> s.jab -> s.roundhouse?
    how would you plink a jab/short?
  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 6,398
    2 questions:

    how would you link akuma's: s.roundhouse -> s.jab -> s.roundhouse?
    how would you plink a jab/short?
    you can't plink a jab because it has the lowest priority
    you can plink a short with lk~lp
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    you can't plink a jab because it has the lowest priority
    you can plink a short with lk~lp

    wouldnt plinking a short with lk~lp input a throw?
    also would i just double click lp instead of plinking in order to link akuma's s.roundhouse -> s.jab -> s.roundhouse?
  • highluluhighlulu Joined: Posts: 3,849
    wouldnt plinking a short with lk~lp input a throw?
    also would i just double click lp instead of plinking in order to link akuma's s.roundhouse -> s.jab -> s.roundhouse?

    plinking lk~lp while crouching will give you the short and not the throw cause you can't throw while crouching.
    Umvc3 - (Nova/Frank/Dante) (Nova/Spencer/Strange) (Zero/Doom/Vergil)
    SF4 - Cammy, Ken
  • Lord GemmaLord Gemma Joined: Posts: 40
    I'm an Akuma player, and over the past few days I've been testing out this alternative way of hitting my links.

    For instance, for the following BnB combo:
    Jump-in, cr.LK, cr.LP, cr.LP, cr.MK xx EX Gohadouken
    Note: the link from cr.LP to cr.MK is a one-frame link.

    Instead of double-tapping the MK in the above example, what you can do is:
    Jump-in, cr.LK, cr.LP, cr.LP, cr.MK+LK (MK~LK input) xx EX Gohadouken

    By MK~LK input I mean, you almost-simultaneously press LK and MK buttons with your index and middle fingers, but hit the MK button with your middle finger slightly earlier (1 frame) before the LK button.

    If done right, in the training mode with input display on, you should see this:

    (second frame) down+LK+MK
    (first frame) down+MK
    Note: if you didn't do it right, the second frame input would have been down+LK only.

    I've found this method to work more than 90% of the time for me - whereas double-tapping (perhaps due to my poor technique) works maybe half the time.

    ***

    The same thing can be done for MP, HP, HK links:

    MP links = MP~LP (or LK, but obviously LP is easier to hit)
    HP links = HP~MP (or MP or LK or LP, but obviously MP is easier to hit)
    HK links = HK~MK (see above)
    (Remember: you have to press both buttons almost simultaneously, but with the stronger-strength button a split-second earlier than the weaker-strength one)

    It also works for cr.LK, BUT ONLY IF your character's cr.LK is not chain-cancellable.

    cr.LK links = (while crouching) LK~LP

    This method will not work with cr.LP, due to the fact that down+cr.LP+cr.LK is always interpreted as cr.LK. It will also not work with standing LP or LK because then it becomes a kara throw.

    In summary, for p-linking to work, you have to understand two things:

    (1) When you do a slide input (press the second button one frame after the first button) like AA~BB, the first input (AA) will be repeated in the second frame (AA+BB).

    (2) Whenever the game detects an AA+BB simultaneous input, it will always give you the strongest attack button in the following order:

    LP (weakest), LK, MP, MK, HP, HK (strongest).

    Therefore HK+HP is executed as HK.

    If you were to enter HK~HP, the game would read it as HK (one frame later) HP+HK, and execute it as HK (one frame later) HK.

    However, if you were to enter HP~HK, the game would read it as HP (one frame later) HP+HK, and execute it as HP (one frame later) HK.

    This is important to note if you want to p-link specials, like Ryu's forward+MP -> Shoryuken.
    You can't p-link SRK with two punch buttons because you'd get the EX. So you'd have to p-link it with either MP~LK, or HP~MK.
    (Disclaimer: not sure if you can p-link specials. At the very least, I couldn't pull off Ryu's forward+MP -> SRK)




    Disclaimer: this linking method will not automatically make you a link combo god - you still have to get the timing right and everything. Like double-tapping, this essentially turns a one-frame link into a two-frame link by giving you two chances to nail the input window.

    *****

    If you haven't figured it out yet, here's why it works:

    A couple of days ago I was practising my Kara throws in training mode with Akuma (HP~LP+LK) when I noticed something - the game recognises my kara throw input as:

    (second frame) LP+LK+HP
    (first frame) HP
    Note: The first input repeats itself when you do HP~LP+LK

    And as we all know, whenever two or more attack buttons of different strengths are pressed, the game will give you the strongest strength attack i.e. if you press LP+MP+HP, you'll see that the game executes that as a s.HP.

    In other words, if you were crouching, essentially the above input could be interpreted by the game as:

    (2nd frame) down+HP+LP+LK (you're stuck in animation, but if you were not, this would have been executed as cr.HP)
    (1st frame) down+HP (executed as a cr.HP)

    So what happens when you're in the recovery frames of some other move, like, say, Akuma's cr.LP? You now have two chances to nail the one-frame window required for cr.LP to cr.HP link, depending on if you hit the down+HP squarely on the window, or one frame before that. One-frame links become two-frames. Two-frame links become three, etc, etc.

    This is effectively a double-tap HP. Only thing is, you don't have to cram both of your fingers on a single button, which surely takes some level of finesse to pull off, especially under pressure. It should make link combos, in general, a lot easier. Personally I can hit cr.LP to cr.MK about 90% of the time.

    Some other examples you can try:
    Ryu's cr.MP, cr.MP, cr.HK
    Sagat's cr.LK x3 xx Tiger Knee

    But of course, if you're very good at double-tapping then you may find double-tapping to be better/easier.

    EDIT: rewrote a few things. Special thanks to everyone who's helped clarify things. :D

    please excuse my noobness, i find your post very interesting put cant actually get my head around it. I main Akuma and Ryu and have just gotten my te stick, add me so we can build because i rekon we could both gain productivity from it.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Kara linking is not really the right term for this IMO..but good find. It should be called like..Priority linking or something.

    are you sure the "double" you are getting isnt simply from the "negative input" on the button release?

    it seems to me that by presssing MK first then LK second, what you are actually doing is holding MK longer than you might otherwise, and then when you release MK ot opens a second opportunity to get the attack off

    if not, i dont see the purpose for pressing LK at all
  • TwistTwist RadarTrap Joined: Posts: 698
    Negative edge doesn't apply to normal attacks. Otherwise every time you did a jab you'd get 2.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Negative edge doesn't apply to normal attacks. Otherwise every time you did a jab you'd get 2.

    but i was thinking it was negative edge enabled because of the pressing the other button, so you actually holding the first button, attacking with another, then releasing the first button, giving negative edge
  • ZanaOyakataZanaOyakata Ichigeki Hisatsu Joined: Posts: 433
    I was thinking of putting of a thread for link timings for all the characters but i decided to post here.

    I think it would be helpful if someone posted a video that you can hear the rhythm of the button presses. This can help a lot of players including me, to execute links better.

    I will post some to when I get them down.
    Walking the path of heaven, the man who will rule everything. - Tendou Souji
    Most cheapest man in the world, is Mago. - Tokido
  • MechanicaMechanica elias the flyest Joined: Posts: 6,252
    I was thinking of putting of a thread for link timings for all the characters but i decided to post here.

    I think it would be helpful if someone posted a video that you can hear the rhythm of the button presses. This can help a lot of players including me, to execute links better.

    I will post some to when I get them down.

    it just sounds like one button press. they're almost pressed at the same time. input display is really all you can do to help.
    KOForever WHY IS 14 SO UGLY whyyyy is alex's neutral stance so ugly
  • ZanaOyakataZanaOyakata Ichigeki Hisatsu Joined: Posts: 433
    I am talking about not using the technique and use just the timing and rhythm of the links. I am trying not to mash or use tricks.
    Walking the path of heaven, the man who will rule everything. - Tendou Souji
    Most cheapest man in the world, is Mago. - Tokido
  • DannkkDannkk Joined: Posts: 1,761
    I am talking about not using the technique and use just the timing and rhythm of the links. I am trying not to mash or use tricks.

    I'm not sure this would be to useful, but a video talking about how to learn links might. There's tricks to learning them. Ryu's biggest damage no meter combo is f+hp, c.hp, srk. That's a one frame link, though, so when people are starting out with ryu they'll stick a c.lp in there and do f+hp, c.lp, c.hp x srk/tatsu. The combos have the same "rhythm," the first just has less margin for error. After you've got the characters 2 and 3 frame links down, you start working on the one frame links.
    Bombing for peace is like f%@&;ing for virginity. - bumper sticker
    My Mods - http://s138.photobucket.com/albums/q250/Dannkk/Dual%20Mods/
  • kangstakangstakangstakangsta Joined: Posts: 12
    Thank you for spending the time to write this all out for me. I learn so much that... I think I love you? Seriously though so many shortcuts in SFIV that I'm surprised that we can't win matches with our eyes closed playing with our feet.
  • NDRWPNDYNDRWPNDY ALLCAPS Joined: Posts: 707
    One of Sim's really tricky links is "c.b+Jab, s.b+Short".

    Is there a way to plink something like that, or is double tapping all I've got in this situation?
  • TwistTwist RadarTrap Joined: Posts: 698
    You can't plink s.LK because the only lower priority button is LP and if you press st.LP+LK you'll get a throw...
  • littlesushilittlesushi Joined: Posts: 827
    Wow, I can't believe how late I picked up on this. I was definitely not using any methods to link combos together, just tried to memorize the timing.

    I've been messing around in training mode for about an hour and already see how this makes these links a lot easier. A super late, but not any less effective big thanks for posting this.
    I hate Ibuki.
  • ZanaOyakataZanaOyakata Ichigeki Hisatsu Joined: Posts: 433
    I think if i memorized the timing I would be good. It like muscle memory. I just need a good place to start.
    A lot of Japanese players seem to not use that many tricks if at all. You don't here the button mash like here in the states.
    Walking the path of heaven, the man who will rule everything. - Tendou Souji
    Most cheapest man in the world, is Mago. - Tokido
  • WarahkWarahk Joined: Posts: 1,104
    I promise you many top japanese players use plinking and double tapping. Neither of these methods should be referred to as "mashing".

    Japan also has the luxury of playing on the same screen wherever they go, US has a lot of console tourneys with different TV's and monitors with different latency rates.
    Avatar by Tatsu.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Sorry if this has been answered in the thread already, however I was wondering if it was possible to p-link an input to get 3 of the original inputs. for instance on my main's (ryu) f+hp follow up I've been using hp~mp then jab, since all of these can be linked off the rush punch, and I plan on canceling it anyways.

    I always seem to register 2 hp inputs (hp and hp+mp) then the lp, is it possible to get plinking to read hp+mp+lp by doing hp~mp~lp for 3 hp inputs? Basically I want the inputs to register as hp...hp+mp...hp+mp+lp. if so is it a different input than hp~mp~ then lp?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    a very basic question. you say 1 frame, 4 frames, etc. how exactly does anybody know the # of frames??? as in...i need to hit on frame 1 and link on 1 frame, well, how do i know how many frames have passed? can i see it? or it is purely "do it quickly" and practice.
  • MesTiz0MesTiz0 Joined: Posts: 9
    Joined SRK today and I learned few things now to put'em in practice. Thanks.
  • WarahkWarahk Joined: Posts: 1,104
    a very basic question. you say 1 frame, 4 frames, etc. how exactly does anybody know the # of frames??? as in...i need to hit on frame 1 and link on 1 frame, well, how do i know how many frames have passed? can i see it? or it is purely "do it quickly" and practice.

    http://shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Street_Fighter_IV
    for frame data


    u learn link timing through practice
    Avatar by Tatsu.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Bison links

    i main bison and his hardest link is his cr lk x3 to knee press is there a buffer for that link i can link it about 70%
  • brightfamebrightfame HIGH FIVE Joined: Posts: 235
    yo i don't do either plinking or double tap..i just learn the timing of links and do my combos most of the time. There is no excuse for your whining if you can't link. Practice makes perfect.
  • Cyberfrost849Cyberfrost849 kikin it like jagger Joined: Posts: 182
    Sooo um, can someone explain to me in more *detail* of how to do this? i keep reading the first post over and over but it just doesnt *click* like, idk what exactly im supposed to press during the plink like 2 buttons or ??? im like sure that the inputs supposed to show you pressin 2 buttons at the same time or something :sweat:

    i dont know im just really confused so i was hoping someone on srk could help me figure it out...i'd appreciate any help that i would be able to get =)
    XBL- Prisoner8490, say your from SRK and we'll play =)
  • RoboKrikitRoboKrikit nuclear Joined: Posts: 1,943
    Sooo um, can someone explain to me in more *detail* of how to do this?

    It is easier if you understand how it works, then figure out how you want to do it.

    When you hit buttons, their inputs queue up into a buffer to be read. SFIV reads all queued up inputs every frame (every 1/60 of a second), so if you hit multiple buttons between frames, it has to decide which action to perform. If you give it a LK and MK on the same frame read, it has to figure out which of those it will actually do.

    SFIV prioritizes button inputs by strength, so LK < MK < HK. If you give it a LK and MK on the same frame, and LK + MK doesn't evaluate to something special (e.g. an EX special) it will execute a MK, and ignore the LK.

    The exact priority order of inputs was posted by JiBbo:
    [Lower]     LP < LK < MP < MK < HP < HK     [Higher]
    

    The idea of plinking is to help you execute links by exploiting this input system.

    Without plinking, you might have only a 1-frame window in which make your next input. You would have to hit MK alone with precise 1/60 second timing.

    With plinking, the idea is to still hit MK, but then to hit LK+MK on the next frame. The end result is an MK on the first frame, then another MK on the second frame, without actually pressing MK two times.

    Physically what you are doing is pressing down multiple buttons at the same time, but barely pressing the target button first (e.g. MK). If you did it right, you had MK pressed down on the first frame, then LK and MK pressed down on the next frame.

    Technically, you could also use LP, since it is also lower priority than MK.
  • Cyberfrost849Cyberfrost849 kikin it like jagger Joined: Posts: 182
    wow, that makes ALOT of sense thanks alot! =)
    XBL- Prisoner8490, say your from SRK and we'll play =)
  • jaymoozoojaymoozoo Joined: Posts: 146
    I was wondering if there is a good video showing the speed/technique required to do this. I realize it's not the hardest thing in the world, and it doesn't by any means require a video to be made, but none the less I think it would be nice.

    I've gotten my links up from around 15%-20% to probably close to 50%, which for me is pretty good, but I'm still having a bit of trouble getting the execution I'd like. Any new tips would be appreciated.

    And if there's been a video posted in this thread already that I missed, my bad. I confess that I didn't go through all 16 pages before making my reply.
  • Lord GemmaLord Gemma Joined: Posts: 40
    I'm an Akuma player, and over the past few days I've been testing out this alternative way of hitting my links.

    For instance, for the following BnB combo:
    Jump-in, cr.LK, cr.LP, cr.LP, cr.MK xx EX Gohadouken
    Note: the link from cr.LP to cr.MK is a one-frame link.

    Instead of double-tapping the MK in the above example, what you can do is:
    Jump-in, cr.LK, cr.LP, cr.LP, cr.MK+LK (MK~LK input) xx EX Gohadouken

    By MK~LK input I mean, you almost-simultaneously press LK and MK buttons with your index and middle fingers, but hit the MK button with your middle finger slightly earlier (1 frame) before the LK button.

    If done right, in the training mode with input display on, you should see this:

    (second frame) down+LK+MK
    (first frame) down+MK
    Note: if you didn't do it right, the second frame input would have been down+LK only.

    I've found this method to work more than 90% of the time for me - whereas double-tapping (perhaps due to my poor technique) works maybe half the time.

    ***

    The same thing can be done for MP, HP, HK links:

    MP links = MP~LP (or LK, but obviously LP is easier to hit)
    HP links = HP~MP (or MP or LK or LP, but obviously MP is easier to hit)
    HK links = HK~MK (see above)
    (Remember: you have to press both buttons almost simultaneously, but with the stronger-strength button a split-second earlier than the weaker-strength one)

    It also works for cr.LK, BUT ONLY IF your character's cr.LK is not chain-cancellable.

    cr.LK links = (while crouching) LK~LP

    This method will not work with cr.LP, due to the fact that down+cr.LP+cr.LK is always interpreted as cr.LK. It will also not work with standing LP or LK because then it becomes a kara throw.

    In summary, for p-linking to work, you have to understand two things:

    (1) When you do a slide input (press the second button one frame after the first button) like AA~BB, the first input (AA) will be repeated in the second frame (AA+BB).

    (2) Whenever the game detects an AA+BB simultaneous input, it will always give you the strongest attack button in the following order:

    LP (weakest), LK, MP, MK, HP, HK (strongest).

    Therefore HK+HP is executed as HK.

    If you were to enter HK~HP, the game would read it as HK (one frame later) HP+HK, and execute it as HK (one frame later) HK.

    However, if you were to enter HP~HK, the game would read it as HP (one frame later) HP+HK, and execute it as HP (one frame later) HK.

    This is important to note if you want to p-link specials, like Ryu's forward+MP -> Shoryuken.
    You can't p-link SRK with two punch buttons because you'd get the EX. So you'd have to p-link it with either MP~LK, or HP~MK.
    (Disclaimer: not sure if you can p-link specials. At the very least, I couldn't pull off Ryu's forward+MP -> SRK)




    Disclaimer: this linking method will not automatically make you a link combo god - you still have to get the timing right and everything. Like double-tapping, this essentially turns a one-frame link into a two-frame link by giving you two chances to nail the input window.

    *****

    If you haven't figured it out yet, here's why it works:

    A couple of days ago I was practising my Kara throws in training mode with Akuma (HP~LP+LK) when I noticed something - the game recognises my kara throw input as:

    (second frame) LP+LK+HP
    (first frame) HP
    Note: The first input repeats itself when you do HP~LP+LK

    And as we all know, whenever two or more attack buttons of different strengths are pressed, the game will give you the strongest strength attack i.e. if you press LP+MP+HP, you'll see that the game executes that as a s.HP.

    In other words, if you were crouching, essentially the above input could be interpreted by the game as:

    (2nd frame) down+HP+LP+LK (you're stuck in animation, but if you were not, this would have been executed as cr.HP)
    (1st frame) down+HP (executed as a cr.HP)

    So what happens when you're in the recovery frames of some other move, like, say, Akuma's cr.LP? You now have two chances to nail the one-frame window required for cr.LP to cr.HP link, depending on if you hit the down+HP squarely on the window, or one frame before that. One-frame links become two-frames. Two-frame links become three, etc, etc.

    This is effectively a double-tap HP. Only thing is, you don't have to cram both of your fingers on a single button, which surely takes some level of finesse to pull off, especially under pressure. It should make link combos, in general, a lot easier. Personally I can hit cr.LP to cr.MK about 90% of the time.

    Some other examples you can try:
    Ryu's cr.MP, cr.MP, cr.HK
    Sagat's cr.LK x3 xx Tiger Knee

    But of course, if you're very good at double-tapping then you may find double-tapping to be better/easier.

    EDIT: rewrote a few things. Special thanks to everyone who's helped clarify things. :D

    Guys i dont get this, its really burnin my brain out tryin 2 figure out this thing. I need it breaking down. Ive tried the 2 imput plinking method for the demon (jab~strong~fierce - b, short, fierce) and it works some of the time for me, but i dont have a clue about the advantage you get out of it with links and bnbs, can sum1 plz private msg me or break the shit down so i can start buttin it in2 proper practice. Ive had my t e stick for a lil while but i still suck at it. I cry out to my pad everytime i get beat cuz i feel like samson with a ceasar without my pad. someone plz help a brotha out!
  • DannkkDannkk Joined: Posts: 1,761
    I was wondering if there is a good video showing the speed/technique required to do this. I realize it's not the hardest thing in the world, and it doesn't by any means require a video to be made, but none the less I think it would be nice.

    I've gotten my links up from around 15%-20% to probably close to 50%, which for me is pretty good, but I'm still having a bit of trouble getting the execution I'd like. Any new tips would be appreciated.

    And if there's been a video posted in this thread already that I missed, my bad. I confess that I didn't go through all 16 pages before making my reply.

    It just looks like you're hitting two buttons at the same time. It's fast enough that you can't really see a difference, but you can hear it. Slap the two buttons with the finger for the higher priority button a bit lower than the next. It's that fast.

    Sometimes the on screen inputs aren't all that good at telling you that you did it right. I'd suggest learning to kara something because you have a visual cue that you did it correctly and the technique is the same. I learned Ken's kara throw before this was discovered and was able to plink as soon as I read this thread because it's the same thing.
    Bombing for peace is like f%@&;ing for virginity. - bumper sticker
    My Mods - http://s138.photobucket.com/albums/q250/Dannkk/Dual%20Mods/
  • jaymoozoojaymoozoo Joined: Posts: 146
    It just looks like you're hitting two buttons at the same time. It's fast enough that you can't really see a difference, but you can hear it. Slap the two buttons with the finger for the higher priority button a bit lower than the next. It's that fast.

    Sometimes the on screen inputs aren't all that good at telling you that you did it right. I'd suggest learning to kara something because you have a visual cue that you did it correctly and the technique is the same. I learned Ken's kara throw before this was discovered and was able to plink as soon as I read this thread because it's the same thing.

    Thanks for the tip!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    thanx man really
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