Plinking / Tsuji-Style: KARA BUFFER Inputs for Easier Links and More!

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  • HawkinsTHawkinsT Fail Joined: Posts: 925
    How consistent are your 1 frame links JoontheBaboon?

    Plinking works great for me with Seth's :hk: > :d::mp:~:lp:~:lk: > :qcb::lk:.

    If I do that just hitting :mp: it comes out maybe 70% of the time, doing it with :mp:~:lp: it comes out about 95% of the time, and doing it with :mp:~:lp:~:lk: gives a 3 frame link with slightly reduced damage if I get it on the third frame, which comes out instead of the :mp: version roughly 1 in 20 goes so there's no doubt in my mind plinking helps.
    SSFIV: Seth

    SSV: Dhalsim, Peter, Urien
  • SonicFlash122SonicFlash122 Joined: Posts: 346
    Vid I made on how to plink! Has visuals and a couple of combos it works with. I main Guile so that's who is in the vid, but the info applies to all characters. If you watch, please let me know what you think.

  • HilariousCowHilariousCow A.K.A. Bezzy Joined: Posts: 32
    Do you only play against Ryu, or do you memorize visual cues for every matchup? I find it much easier to use aural cues.

    I've been using the hit flare effect. It might just be confirmation bias, but it seems like if you hit the button when the flare is peaking, that's the ideal timing. And that's character agnostic, too. However, you're right. Doing it by sound is better. Human reaction times from sound queues (iirc) are faster than from visual queues... or atleast, signal from audio in the brain has to be buffered to synchronize with the processing latency from visual queues. I will need to double check this so that I don't look like an idiot...

    [Edit] Some googling later, looks like I remembered correctly! Also found out that red visual stimulous results in faster reaction times than green or indigo! And I remember from elsewhere that visual stimulous in your peripheral view results in faster reactions times, too. Less actual processing going on in the corners in your vision - you're mainly just looking for movement.

    How long until someone suggests you wear your character's Green outfit to get an advantage over your opponent? :D
  • HawkinsTHawkinsT Fail Joined: Posts: 925
    I've found this in the past also. I was playing without sound for a couple of weeks due to speaker problems and links were much harder to hit... I started getting use to hitting them without sound in the end though so maybe it was just easier with sound BECAUSE I'm used to using the sound, dunno =).
    SSFIV: Seth

    SSV: Dhalsim, Peter, Urien
  • ditnditn Joined: Posts: 557
    Yeah but what if you go to a tournament and its very loud.
    Then you lose the ability to link by listening to sound and you have a problem.
  • SSblankaSSblanka Joined: Posts: 677
    How long until someone suggests you wear your character's Green outfit to get an advantage over your opponent? :D

    so that's why i win more w/ the lime green ken. :D
  • HFXHFX SMYA Joined: Posts: 4,751
    If you use plinking or "sliding frame input" (which btw is a loose translation of what the Japanese call plinking; none of that Tsuji-style egotistical nonsense which I wish some mod would remove from the thread title)

    I know im late but LOL this is hilarious. Tsuji style is the popular name for "sliding frame input". Most people here calls the technique Tsuji style, its more known as Tsuji style, so yeah.?:rofl:
    Malaysian. Kuching FGC founder. Follow me on: Twitch | Twitter | Facebook
  • KIRBYSIMKIRBYSIM Joined: Posts: 105
    Thanks for the heads up, hfz69. But I believe most people call it Tsuji-style because tsuji-shiki is four syllables short, as opposed to zurashioshi. Four-syllables, I've been told, is like the magic number for acronyms in Japanese?

    There are people who prefer to use the term zurashi-oshi though. Maybe if you weren't so ethnocentric you might realise that.

    Anyway, my point is - and of course this is solely my personal opinion - that Tsuji-shiki does not translate well when spoken in English, simply because "tsuji style" is a mouthful and doesn't really make sense in English. That's why the English-speaking SF community at large has opted to call it plinking. Which as you obviously know is short for priority linking.

    Just as you find whatever it is you found hilarious, I find it hilarious that someone would use that "Tsuji style" in an actual conversation: "Yeah, for Abel's f+MK dash into s.HP the timing is tight, so you gotta Tsuji style it". "DUDE, TSUJI STYLE IT, DUDE! YOU ARE NOT TSUJI-ING RIGHT!!"

    As an amatuer in the ways of the Japanese, both in terms of culture and language, I greatly respect opinions and input from who know better, like yourself. But being born and bred in Asia, I also believe in the virtues of humility (haha, so stereotypical), and it just seems quite egoistical to me that someone would name the technique after himself.

    Over here in the English-speaking world, I certainly haven't seen any fighting game terminology named after a... person or location's name, at least. Fighting games are not rocket science or... wine.

    P.S. what terms do the Japanese use to refer to links and cancels btw?
  • HFXHFX SMYA Joined: Posts: 4,751
    anyway, my bad, didnt mean to be rude. :/ (though i dont think callin it tsuji style is egotistical or anything)

    ive read the origin of the term tsujishiki, but i forgot about it.. and that four syllables think, my japanese knowledge isnt that good but i thought thats like some idiom kinda thing like "kill two birds with one stone" etc.. anyway i guess it is depending on ppl to call it what, i just thought id share from my experience that ppl do call it tsuji style too.

    as for naming some style after himself, i thought thats kinda normal? maybe not he himself, but its not unusual for something to be named after the person who found it. true its not rocket science though... but i just saw in ken's part theres this "emilio style" too lol.. as for viper there's something called "dashio's special", so i guess its normal in sf4 to name certain stuff based on the ppl who found/apply it, maybe a lil bit egotistical if the person himself is naming it after himself but i guess sometimes its other ppl who call it that after seeing things they never seen before.. just like tokido style. sure you can always call it whatever you wanna call it, if you prefer zurashi meoshi, nothing wrong with that.

    as for humility, haha yeah asians are stereotypically notorious for that, but yeah just a stereotype, too much humility will just invite other ppl (read: westerners LOL) to run a train all over ya haha. (half kidding :p)

    as for cancelling and links, cancels are cancels (or kyanseru),for links, they are called "renkei" but from my experience ppl also say like "tsunagaru/tsunagaranai" (that shit does/not combos/links) too...

    p.s- even i dont use tsuji style, i call it plinking but with japanese i use tsuji shiki when im referring to it.
    Malaysian. Kuching FGC founder. Follow me on: Twitch | Twitter | Facebook
  • KIRBYSIMKIRBYSIM Joined: Posts: 105
    I think the distinction I personally make is that, a style is the way a person plays. A collection of tactics, setups, etc, that a player performs often because it's intuitive to him. Like second-nature. Style is personality, it's subjective and varies with every person.

    When I first learnt of Akuma's vortex/cross-up hurricane, it was through a Japanese wiki and they referred to it as Tokido-shiki/Tokido-style. Which I absolutely have no problem with, because that's how he plays - the wiki provided a sample flow-chart of how this works. But once I learnt the gist of Tokido-shiki though, I broke from it and used the cross-up hurricane in a manner I find more intuitive. That's my own personal style. It may not be as effective as Tokido's but it's who I am.

    And yeah I would use the terms emilio style and dashio's special too (if I knew what they were) because it's... well, fine play unique to them.

    But tsuji-shiki... personally I find that quite hard to accept as a formal name as plinking is pretty much technical terminology. Everyone performs this technique more or less the same manner. Though obviously the applications are vast.

    The way I see it:

    Plinking = technique = should be named something that gives you an inclination of what it does
    Examples - cross-up hurricane, plinking, delayed attack/frame trap

    Applications of plinking = style = for instance, the Tsujinrai demon (super demon with SPD range performed with plinking). That makes sense because the Tsujinrai demon is unique to Jinrai - I certainly can't pull it off on a regular basis, and personally I don't find it effective. But if I saw a match video where Jinrai pulls it off I would most certainly shout out very excitedly: "WOOOT, THE TSUINRAI-DEMON!"
    Examples - Vortex/Tokido-style (stylistic use of cross-up hurricane), Tsujinrai-demon (plinking), Nemo-ChunLi's cr.LP, s.HK (frame trap).
  • HFXHFX SMYA Joined: Posts: 4,751
    lol if you personally finds it hard to accept, its not my problem. just letting you know its normal to call it tsujishiki in japan, and if you wanna play technical wordplay, shiki doesnt only means style.

    i really dont think it matters what you wanna call it, as long as you know what it is. like i said, in english id definitely call it plinking, but in japanese i dont, i use tsujishiki because ive known it as tsuji shiki first and ppl do use that term.

    anyway i dont see any point arguing about this any more lol i got some other thigns to do at this hour :D
    Malaysian. Kuching FGC founder. Follow me on: Twitch | Twitter | Facebook
  • ditnditn Joined: Posts: 557
    Video with Justin Wong
    A good video to check Justin Wong hands while he is plinking.
    Around 1:54 you can see him do the plinking :)
  • starmine92starmine92 Joined: Posts: 279
    thanks kirbysim for this post. i know im pretty late on finding this but im gonna try out plinking since i need it real bad for abel's F+mk into st. HP.
    but i read this like three times and i still dont get how/why when u almost simultaneously push two buttons and allow the one with higher priority to come out will give u more consistency with ur desired combo
    "Sometimes, it doesn’t take a nerf. Sometimes, it just takes a little bit of information. That and a tampon for your weepy vagina." - Darry
  • starmine92starmine92 Joined: Posts: 279
    Video with Justin Wong
    A good video to check Justin Wong hands while he is plinking.
    Around 1:54 you can see him do the plinking :)

    out of curiosity did jwong plink ibuki's qcb kick after the st. mk??
    "Sometimes, it doesn’t take a nerf. Sometimes, it just takes a little bit of information. That and a tampon for your weepy vagina." - Darry
  • DannkkDannkk Joined: Posts: 1,761
    thanks kirbysim for this post. i know im pretty late on finding this but im gonna try out plinking since i need it real bad for abel's F+mk into st. HP.
    but i read this like three times and i still dont get how/why when u almost simultaneously push two buttons and allow the one with higher priority to come out will give u more consistency with ur desired combo

    It's a bug in the game. For some reason if you separate the button presses by one frame the game reads your inputs as you pressing hp then one frame later pressing hp+mp. Both inputs come out as hp. So, now when you plink, you get two inputs instead of one, that are 1 frame apart. Gives you two chances to hit the 1 frame window of a link. An easy, though not totally correct, way to think of it is that it doubles the amount of time that you have to hit the link. 1 frame links become 2 frame links. 2 frame links become 4 frame links.
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  • johnnypaojohnnypao Joined: Posts: 88
    thanks kirbysim for this post. i know im pretty late on finding this but im gonna try out plinking since i need it real bad for abel's F+mk into st. HP.but i read this like three times and i still dont get how/why when u almost simultaneously push two buttons and allow the one with higher priority to come out will give u more consistency with ur desired combo

    For what it's worth, I've recently gone back and practiced plinking diligently. I can connect this link 80% of the time now. God bless the plink.
    The master of nothing.
  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,189
    I have a question. Is it known that you can plink c.MK -> Ultra with Blanka? I'm quite certain that "c.MK -> Charge B, F, B, F+PPP~HK" works. Because if you plink with HK, taunt can't come out because you're not holding the stick in neutral, which makes the ultra come out. Can someone confirm this? I have trouble teally testing it, because I'm stuck with my 360 controler atm.
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

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  • starmine92starmine92 Joined: Posts: 279
    It's a bug in the game. For some reason if you separate the button presses by one frame the game reads your inputs as you pressing hp then one frame later pressing hp+mp. Both inputs come out as hp. So, now when you plink, you get two inputs instead of one, that are 1 frame apart. Gives you two chances to hit the 1 frame window of a link. An easy, though not totally correct, way to think of it is that it doubles the amount of time that you have to hit the link. 1 frame links become 2 frame links. 2 frame links become 4 frame links.

    ohhhh i see, its kinda like mashing but in a more accurate way and with the help of the engine of the game. and yeh the timing still matters its just gives u more consistency
    "Sometimes, it doesn’t take a nerf. Sometimes, it just takes a little bit of information. That and a tampon for your weepy vagina." - Darry
  • starmine92starmine92 Joined: Posts: 279
    yeh i've worked on it for a while when i discovered this a month or two ago lol. and now i can get it more consistently. i cant say i get it 80% of the time but definitely waaaaaaaaay better then me not plinking. god bless the plink indeed
    "Sometimes, it doesn’t take a nerf. Sometimes, it just takes a little bit of information. That and a tampon for your weepy vagina." - Darry
  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 6,399
    I have a question. Is it known that you can plink c.MK -> Ultra with Blanka? I'm quite certain that "c.MK -> Charge B, F, B, F+PPP~HK" works. Because if you plink with HK, taunt can't come out because you're not holding the stick in neutral, which makes the ultra come out. Can someone confirm this? I have trouble teally testing it, because I'm stuck with my 360 controler atm.

    I tried this a while back and I remember it being possible, but really awkward. Don't take my word for it though because as I said it was a while back.

    Anyone know if double plinking is possible? ie. Plink hp into mp and mp into lp? This can possibly used after stuff like Ryu's f.hp, which can link into any punch. So if you miss the hp, you can still get the mp, and if you screw up the plink timing you can still get lp.
  • TheliTheli Joined: Posts: 1,586
    ohhhh i see, its kinda like mashing but in a more accurate way and with the help of the engine of the game. and yeh the timing still matters its just gives u more consistency

    Well...I don't think it's fair to call it mashing. The point of this is to make it easier to connect multiple buttons moves. Going hp~mp when doing a special move would normally just give you the hp version of that special move. Due to this facet of the system, an ex would be kara'd instead. Or at least that's how I understand it.

    Edit: Nevermind. Misread post.

    “That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”

  • WarahkWarahk Joined: Posts: 1,104
    Anyone know if double plinking is possible? ie. Plink hp into mp and mp into lp? This can possibly used after stuff like Ryu's f.hp, which can link into any punch. So if you miss the hp, you can still get the mp, and if you screw up the plink timing you can still get lp.

    No it is not possible. You can test it yourself by displaying inputs in training mode. But ya you can just mash all the buttons and ryu will still link into something, but thats not plinking, thats just ryu being top tier :P
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  • datsmadzdatsmadz Joined: Posts: 41
    After getting super, I'm really trying to up my game so it's time to learn how to plink.
    I've read around and I think I understand how plinking works.
    I'm a bit confused on how to actually achieve it.
    First to clarify, if I wanted to plink Ibuki's c.lp to s.mk, I press mk followed by lk almost instantly. Is the speed of this press the same speed you need for double tapping?
    DevilJin posted this on the Ibuki forums "Just quickly slide your finger from MK to LK so that the game thinks you're hitting MK twice."
    Am I doing it wrong? Or is his method another way for plinking?
  • crushingyencrushingyen Joined: Posts: 118
    I was reading the update on P-Linking vs Double Tapping and you were talking about the margin of error. I don't understand how double tapping for 2+ frame links gives you a larger room for error. Could you please elaborate on this?
  • SpawnSCSpawnSC Joined: Posts: 90
    here is a good video on plinking

    http://shoryuken.com/media.php?do=details&mid=2137
  • jT415GzjT415Gz uh kinda hungry tho Joined: Posts: 401
    very informative thread, i likes
    Thanks
    - jT
  • KuvioKuvio Joined: Posts: 35
    This definitely helps me with Cody's s.MP -> c.HP, which is a really nice thing to be able to do.
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  • AshuraSenkuAshuraSenku Let's GO!! Joined: Posts: 505
    Great Info in this thread.

    Thanks.
    "...And once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been, and there you long to return..." - Leonardo da Vinci
  • PshhhPshhh Joined: Posts: 19
    Not getting this...

    Can't get seem to plink Ryu's c.mp c.mp... I get the input on the training mode to come out as

    lp+mp
    mp

    in consecutive frames but the second mp doesn't come out.

    Am I too fast or too slow?
  • TheliTheli Joined: Posts: 1,586
    If no input at all comes out, then you're doing the entire input too early. The inputs both got caught in the previous move's recovery.

    “That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”

  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    thanks kirbysim for this post. i know im pretty late on finding this but im gonna try out plinking since i need it real bad for abel's F+mk into st. HP.
    but i read this like three times and i still dont get how/why when u almost simultaneously push two buttons and allow the one with higher priority to come out will give u more consistency with ur desired combo

    Yea, it's kinda like mashing, but when you mash, you are hitting the button over and over as fast as you can, praying one of them will be timed correctly. The problem with that is this game runs at 60fp/s, so a 1 frame link has a 1/60th of a second window for you to push the correct button. When you are mashing, (if you are fast) it takes you about 20+ frames just to lift your finger and press the button again (about 3 or so presses per second). Thats a 5% chance to nail the link.

    Normally, you would just wait and try to time it perfectly with a single button press, which will allow you to bring the odds way up (as high as you are good at timing these things). Now imagine if there was a way to push the button so fast that it will hit every frame and you have plinking... Unfortunately, the technique limits us to only two button presses, but 2 frames = 1/30th of a second, effectively doubling your window and thus your chances! So if you can only nail that link 50% of the time, now you will be pushing 100%, and thats pretty cool.

    I also see allot of "Why does the game let this happen?" posts (even though I thought it was answered pretty well...but...)

    Imagine there was zero input leniency. If you wanted to input a throw, your LP + LK would have to be so exact that the circuitry in your pad fire has to fire off the lp less than 1/60th of a second before/after the lk. It would be very annoying, especially for pad players.

    With leniency, when the game sees you punching then a split second later sees you kicking, it basically says "Punch...no wait, fat fingers here is trying to perform a throw" and thus you throw. The game forgives the first input and then spits out its own assumed second input. You can see a similar effect in other instances, like when you hadouken and press punch too soon, you'll see your character punch, then throw a fireball, even though you only pressed the punch button once.

    That is how/why plinking works (if Im not mistaken). You input a HK followed immediately by MK and the game says "Ok, High Kick...no wait...hes trying to High Kick and Medium Kick at the same time" and thus the game spits out HK, HK+MK in two frames. Of course in SF4, when you push more than one button, the most powerful move comes out (which is why the KKK button will always roundhouse), so the plink HK, HK+MK is actually a 2 frame HK,HK nice and tidy and ready to be used in place of a single HK when trying to time 1 frame links.:tup:

    yay, big first post!
  • thecapsaicinkidthecapsaicinkid drops combo, pretends it's a reset Joined: Posts: 1,016
    Yeah you're right. The jab is still active so the only possible move is a cancel, and a chain is a cancel.
    Chain is a bit of a redundant word dontcha think. How is it different from a cancel in any way?
    Fighting game player, coder, chilli lover, ruffian.
  • xcalibur798xcalibur798 Known as xcalibear Joined: Posts: 129
    Sorry if this has been asked before but a thought just came to me. Would it be possible to use plinking to get super fast TK cancels with c viper?
  • Dont JumpDont Jump MVC3 was end of good FG's Joined: Posts: 1,491
    Can Dudley Plink his crlpx2-hk?

    or cr lk to HK?
  • williamadamsesqwilliamadamsesq Cody's doin your Mom Joined: Posts: 5
    This stuff messes me up
  • HarveyHarvey Joined: Posts: 38
    All of this goes right over my head. It's probably because I've been playing SSF4 for only a couple of months and I still don't know a lot of the terms. I'm going to give it a try in the training room; hopefully I'll make sense out of all this. May be I can figure out a way to apply this technique with M.Bison's BnB's and other combos.
  • nk4enk4e Trying to adapt... Joined: Posts: 680
    This stuff messes me up

    then don't use it. It does help though.
    "The ultimate skill is to take up a position where you are formless.... Those who are able to adapt and change in accord with the enemy and achieve victor are called divine...."-Sun Tzu
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  • 0Kenji00Kenji0 Joined: Posts: 18
    This stuff messes me up

    Practice makes perfect. It took me a month to get it down. Relax your fingers and don't overthink it :)
  • RiedlosRiedlos Joined: Posts: 6
    Something i'm trying to wrap my head around regarding the line about double tapping, having a conversation with someone, he brought up that 'double tapping is good for 2 frame links' and cited this thread, which i have read through several times.

    My question is regarding the lines

    "For one-frame links, plinking is undeniably superior. With plinking you can either hit the button one frame early (-1), or time it perfectly (0). The margin of error for plinking here is 2 consecutive frames. With double-tapping, however, you either hit it two frames early (-2) or squarely on the dot (0). The margin of error here is still 2 frames, but they are not consecutive frames."

    From my understanding of frame data, a one frame link is defined as a difference of 0 frames in the recovery of one move, and the startup of another move. the reason that this is, is because the last 'startup' frame is also the first 'active' frame of a move. That being the case, when he describes hiting the 0 frame, or the -2 frame, wouldnt that be a 3 frame link, not a two frame link? 0 being the first available frame, -1 being the second, and -2 being the third and final available frame to get the move out before the window to link is actually gone?
  • ChapterBChapterB Joined: Posts: 86
    =O

    Just tried this for the first time with Ryu in Training mode. It really works! I couldn't get the timing down for links but now it's a LOT easier.

    With that said, should I just run with this and improve using plinking or should I practice combos without it so I'd be great whether I use it or not?
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