Plinking / Tsuji-Style: KARA BUFFER Inputs for Easier Links and More!

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  • bokchoybokchoy Not Krang Joined: Posts: 1,395
    This shit is groundbreaking. Nice find, Kirby.

    Give me your address. I'm gonna airmail you a hooker, and she's gonna give you a well-deserved blowjob.
  • Nice1Nice1 PROFOUND SADNESS Joined: Posts: 233
    wow i can do ryu's bnb even better thanx alot
  • AzraelAzrael Epic Calling! Joined: Posts: 3,258
    Glad it's helpful. :)

    But what's this demon video you guys are talking about? Link please?

    EDIT: Walking demon? Are you referring to, forward+LP+MP, LP+MP, back+LK+HP?


    Translation courtesy of xhydralisk

    Actual translation:
    theory:
    When pressing two different buttons 1F apart, the first button is registered as being pressed twice. Usually same button press twice takes at least 3F but now it is possible in 2F. (Normally pressing the button that fast will not work because the game will just register as a hold)

    explanation and uses:
    when simultaneously pressing buttons, press the buttons in the order of high priority to low priority. i.e. hK->mK input would register hK on 1F, mk + hk on 2F. Between mK and hK, hK has the higher priority so in effect, hK has been pressed twice in 2F. When using this technique for linking, the first input is registered, effectively giving a +1F window on links.


    From the link in the vid info:
    3F demon: theory

    1F 3P hold
    2F back + lk
    3F 3P release


    how to practice:
    In training mode key display ON
    If you hold down a button then another, only the second button is shown
    If you successfully 1F slide it will register as simultaneous press.
    Pressing the first button only once, but appears twice = 2 button presses are registered.

    Torem_Kamina:

    Definitely need to work that EX Tatsu wake-up into my gameplan. Sacrificing damage and stun meter for psychological damage. That's some next level shit right there.

  • MechanicaMechanica elias the flyest Joined: Posts: 6,252

    And as we all know, whenever two or more attack buttons of different strengths are pressed, the game will option select and give you the strongest strength attack.

    I for one never knew this. :wasted: I am... confused on how this works. I guess it doesn't matter that I understand WHY it works, but I'm curious. Except I don't know how to phrase my question. Let's see...

    Okay, so in the first example, the MP takes priority over the LP, I get that. But what does the lp input have to do with anything? Why does it make the link easier? I'm sure if I go into training mode it will (I don't play a character who really uses links unfortunately) be easier but I don't get it. :sweat:

    EDIT: Az summed it up nicely with the simple sentence that it makes the game think you inputted it twice. Maybe I missed that if anyone mentioned it before but god damn what a much simpler way to explain it. Thanks random japanese people.
    KOForever WHY IS 14 SO UGLY whyyyy is alex's neutral stance so ugly
  • AzraelAzrael Epic Calling! Joined: Posts: 3,258
    Don't thank me, I'm just copy-pasting.

    Akuma walk-forward in-your-face Demon. That's almost silly. :rofl:

    Torem_Kamina:

    Definitely need to work that EX Tatsu wake-up into my gameplan. Sacrificing damage and stun meter for psychological damage. That's some next level shit right there.

  • MechanicaMechanica elias the flyest Joined: Posts: 6,252
    Fixed.

    Wow, though. This is a pretty awesome find. All in favor of calling it kirby linking?
    KOForever WHY IS 14 SO UGLY whyyyy is alex's neutral stance so ugly
  • Shodokan123Shodokan123 3s 4 Life Joined: Posts: 3,407
    Fixed.

    Wow, though. This is a pretty awesome find. All in favor of calling it kirby linking?

    lol what?
    Stupid games...
  • MechanicaMechanica elias the flyest Joined: Posts: 6,252
    lol what?

    Well it's really not a kara-cancel. You know how magneto's ROM infinite isn't called the super jump light kick infinite? Same train of thought. :lol:
    KOForever WHY IS 14 SO UGLY whyyyy is alex's neutral stance so ugly
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,741
    im fine with kirby link... lol wouldn't matter if i weren't.



    but i still like priority link better as that pretty much defines what it is (p-link).



    but if it's kirby link i vote k-link for short :tup:



    lol mechanica read kirbys first post and my second or third post to know why this works.




    once again good shit kirbysim!







    -dime
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • MagnetoManiacMagnetoManiac EX MagMan™ Joined: Posts: 6,697
    With Chun's B&B it's easy to fierce~strong,

    With Ryu's low strong, fierce~(strong) it gives me low strong too often.

    I made a video and I'll post when it's done processing.

    凸 (⊙▃⊙) 凸 Hold that
    Team "Get that shit outta here"
    So, do YOU know the match-up?! - team gdlk
  • Dan's StudentDan's Student SuperTurboRyan Joined: Posts: 1,044
    I for one never knew this. :wasted: I am... confused on how this works. I guess it doesn't matter that I understand WHY it works, but I'm curious. Except I don't know how to phrase my question. Let's see...

    No no, it does matter. I too HAVE to understand WHY something works in order to completely and fully utilize, and know WHY I'm utilizing it in the first place, so you are not alone.

    Anyways I was totally about to write up a huge question because I understood absolutely no mechanic about this, or purpose at first. But now that I've re-read it, I believe I see what you are saying now, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong:

    - The game decides that if multiple punches and kicks are pressed simultaneously, the strongest move will execute (So roundhouse will execute if you push roundhouse and forward at the same time).

    - So, when you are performing a link such as cr.jab, cr.jab, cr.strong xx special move, which may require 1 frame timing between cr.jab and cr.strong, you press strong~jab for that cr.strong.

    - The game is reading strong when you initially pressed it, and then when you hit jab, the game registers ANOTHER attack since they were pressed so close together, but it registers ANOTHER strong instead of jab because the game prioritizes the stronger attack when multiple punches/kicks are pressed together. The end result is like double tapping strong VERY quickly, within a couple frames I assume. Thus, creating a more precise effort at that 1-2 frame timing.

    That about sum it up? Assuming I assumed right, that is a pretty interesting find, I think I'll probably try that with Guile's cr.jab, cr.strong xx flashkick/sonic boom.
    PSN: Th3_Greench_SRK (Skullgirls, SFxT, SSF2THDR, MK9, SCV, KOFXIII, T6)

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  • 4r54r5 FIGHTAN VIDYA GAEMS Joined: Posts: 2,579
    Kirby-link or P-link makes it sound like this is a new kind of combo, like chains and stuff. But all this is is a new technique to perform a type of combo.

    I vote for not naming it after people.

    call it something priority-glitch or button-aiding

    anyways, now we gotta find ways to exploit this glitch in other situations.
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  • Dan's StudentDan's Student SuperTurboRyan Joined: Posts: 1,044
    You sir are awsome. And I think "kara link" is a great term for this technique.
    I look forward to trying it too.

    I also think it's hilarious that this dood is hustling to name these kara links.

    No disrespect.
    its more of a renda link if you ask me (is that what its called?)

    whats this standing ultra demon im hearing about?
    im fine with kirby link... lol wouldn't matter if i weren't.

    but i still like priority link better as that pretty much defines what it is (p-link).

    but if it's kirby link i vote k-link for short :tup:

    lol mechanica read kirbys first post and my second or third post to know why this works.

    once again good shit kirbysim!

    -dime

    P.S. And lol, if you guys really want a common name for this (Which is understandable since we want to know what the hell we're talking about mid conversation) then to be honest, all those kara/cancel/whatever names don't fit since that's not what is happening here.

    Kara cancel indicates that you are interrupting the first few frames of one attack/move, and executing another. And a renda cancel is when you are chaining together multiple crouching or standing jabs/shorts, and then go into the next state (ie from standing to crouching, or crouching to standing) and hit jab/short but then cancel the first few frames of that jab/short into a special/super.

    Since there is no canceling going on, kara/renda cancel doesn't fit. What's actually happening here, is that you are basically "tricking" the game into reading the input as two, insanely fast back to back button presses (ie it's reading strong~jab as strong, strong, within 1-2 frames). So, since there is no canceling going on, I suggest calling it "piano link/piano linking." Since after all, you are basically using piano method, and no canceling is going on.

    :rofl: Naming advanced techs/glitches is serious business. Have we learned nothing from the Super Smash Bros. community?!
    PSN: Th3_Greench_SRK (Skullgirls, SFxT, SSF2THDR, MK9, SCV, KOFXIII, T6)

    XBL: Th3 Greench (SSF2THDR, SSFIVAE:V2012, UMVC3, MVC2)
  • CicadaCicada NO, YOU CANNOT. Joined: Posts: 1,400
    Outstanding
    Inland Empire/SoCal SF4 Training: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?p=7446178
    500px.com/bgateb
  • nyuronyuro Joined: Posts: 181
    this is awesome stuff testing now...
  • yebyeb AE元是我最喜欢的。 Joined: Posts: 442
    - The game decides that if multiple punches and kicks are pressed simultaneously, the strongest move will execute (So roundhouse will execute if you push roundhouse and forward at the same time).

    - So, when you are performing a link such as cr.jab, cr.jab, cr.strong xx special move, which may require 1 frame timing between cr.jab and cr.strong, you press strong~jab for that cr.strong.

    - The game is reading strong when you initially pressed it, and then when you hit jab, the game registers ANOTHER attack since they were pressed so close together,
    Correct on all points so far, but...
    but it registers ANOTHER strong instead of jab because the game prioritizes the stronger attack when multiple punches/kicks are pressed together.
    Not quite, it isn't registering one instead of the other. What it's doing is registering BOTH the jab and strong (strong for a 2nd time) and the strong takes priority. This might sound exactly the same, but there's a key difference: the piano roll can register as an EX input. This is really annoying for characters with mashed moves (hundred hands, electricity, etc.) because piano rolls tend to result in EX moves due to this same mechanic. If you're just doing it for a normal attack though, then it's simply the stronger normal move that comes out.
    The end result is like double tapping strong VERY quickly, within a couple frames I assume. Thus, creating a more precise effort at that 1-2 frame timing.
    Better than double tapping could ever be. If you double tap, the best you can possibly hope to achieve is 2 inputs in 3 frames - press on the 1st frame, release on the 2nd frame, and press again on the 3rd frame. No matter what, there's going to be a gap (most likely much larger than 1 frame) if you use double taps for links. What this does is give you 2 inputs on consecutive frames. Normally when the game reads one button being pressed on 2 consecutive frames it just thinks that you're holding the button, but this abuses the system to register the same button twice.

    Anyway, this is an amazing trick, I've tried it quite a bit and found it extremely useful. I'd agree that kara links would be an inappropriate name, though. Piano linking is simple and descriptive.
    Super Street Fighter 4: Chinese Edition.
    yeb likes this game.
  • MagnetoManiacMagnetoManiac EX MagMan™ Joined: Posts: 6,697
    Oh I found out how to get it to work 100%.

    You have to hold the previous button so that it counts as a mp+hp on the input display.

    If you kara it and release, it WILL NOT WORK and you will get some shitty move you didn't want.

    You must hold down the buttons that you want to kara for the technique to work correctly.

    That's why the Akuma instant demon works.
    凸 (⊙▃⊙) 凸 Hold that
    Team "Get that shit outta here"
    So, do YOU know the match-up?! - team gdlk
  • KIRBYSIMKIRBYSIM Joined: Posts: 105


    Translation courtesy of xhydralisk

    Actual translation:
    theory:
    When pressing two different buttons 1F apart, the first button is registered as being pressed twice. Usually same button press twice takes at least 3F but now it is possible in 2F. (Normally pressing the button that fast will not work because the game will just register as a hold)

    explanation and uses:
    when simultaneously pressing buttons, press the buttons in the order of high priority to low priority. i.e. hK->mK input would register hK on 1F, mk + hk on 2F. Between mK and hK, hK has the higher priority so in effect, hK has been pressed twice in 2F. When using this technique for linking, the first input is registered, effectively giving a +1F window on links.


    From the link in the vid info:
    3F demon: theory

    1F 3P hold
    2F back + lk
    3F 3P release


    how to practice:
    In training mode key display ON
    If you hold down a button then another, only the second button is shown
    If you successfully 1F slide it will register as simultaneous press.
    Pressing the first button only once, but appears twice = 2 button presses are registered.

    Yeah, right after I asked for the link to the video my curiosity got the better of me and I went and did the SRK thing: I used the search function. :rofl:

    And boy, that shit was amazing. Absolutely blew my mind.

    Had to leave for school, but when I got back I went to training mode straight and messed around with ma man Gouki. I think I've figured out how it's done. Here's the method as paraphrased from my post in the original thread:

    *********

    Walk forward
    1F forward+LP+MP (note: the game executes this as forward+s.MP)
    2F forward+LP+MP+HK (in other words, this is LP+MP kara into HK)
    3F backward+LK+HP

    EDIT: If you map the button inputs onto a Hori Real Arcade Pro as follows, it gets really easy.

    B button - LP (same as default)
    X button - MP (default)
    A button - HK
    Y button - HP (default)
    LB button - LK

    So then all you gotta do is hit forward+B+X+A but with A slight (one-frame) slower than B+X, then finish off with back+Y+LB.[/B]
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I'll test it as soon as I can, good find

    Ciap
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,741
    its up to kirby to name this, he found it and brought it to us.



    piano link is sort of descriptive enough, but it doesnt state why the link works only how to do it. also piano could be ANY buttons pressed in a rhythmic manner, that wont necessarily result in a proper link as kirbys find is accomplished tho.




    priority link however states exactly whats happening when you use kirbys method:

    your using the systems input PRIORITY for buttons to get out an easy double tap hence making 1 and 2 frame links alot easier.



    also this is not as easy to use as i first thought:


    when using p-links with ryu as an example:



    cr.lk, cr.lp, (p-link) cr.mp~lp theres a VERY good chance that you'll get a cr.lp, if you input the p-link to early... the reason why is obviously that the chain timing from the first 2 inputs wasnt over when the p-link was done, so like any other link combo the mp gets eaten by move recovery and the cr.lp comes out cause it was timed so that the game was still accepting chain timing for a weak attack.



    still this makes many links i tried it with MUCH easier. for instance abels F+MK xx dash> st.fp is WAY freakin easier using priority link (st.fp~mp)


    try it out!




    -dime
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • Crimson_Zero12Crimson_Zero12 ¬_¬ SIDE-EYE MADNESS ¬_¬ Joined: Posts: 659
    Why would you need hk on the SSG? Works fine without it.
    "The true indication of a good fighting game – playability, not balance" -Clockw0rk
  • KIRBYSIMKIRBYSIM Joined: Posts: 105
    its up to kirby to name this, he found it and brought it to us.



    piano link is sort of descriptive enough, but it doesnt state why the link works only how to do it. also piano could be ANY buttons pressed in a rhythmic manner, that wont necessarily result in a proper link as kirbys find is accomplished tho.




    priority link however states exactly whats happening when you use kirbys method:

    your using the systems input PRIORITY for buttons to get out an easy double tap hence making 1 and 2 frame links alot easier.



    also this is not as easy to use as i first thought:


    when using p-links with ryu as an example:



    cr.lk, cr.lp, (p-link) cr.mp~lp theres a VERY good chance that you'll get a cr.lp, if you input the p-link to early... the reason why is obviously that the chain timing from the first 2 inputs wasnt over when the p-link was done, so like any other link combo the mp gets eaten by move recovery and the cr.lp comes out cause it was timed so that the game was still accepting chain timing for a weak attack.



    still this makes many links i tried it with MUCH easier. for instance abels F+MK xx dash> st.fp is WAY freakin easier using priority link (st.fp~mp)


    try it out!




    -dime

    I have no idea what to call it either - in fact the description in my first post seems to be quite confusing for a number of folks, due to my lack of experience in dealing with and explaining fighting game jargon.

    But I guess priority link sounds pretty apt. P-link sounds catchy. :bgrin:
  • KIRBYSIMKIRBYSIM Joined: Posts: 105
    Why would you need hk on the SSG? Works fine without it.

    This way you can go from Akuma's walking animation to his Ultra animation without anything in between. No whiffed jabs, no forward+MP, just straight from walking to ultra.

    It's not practical, but it sure as hell looks cool.
  • jpr333jpr333 Joined: Posts: 140
    *********

    Walk forward
    1F forward+LP+MP (note: the game executes this as forward+s.MP)
    2F forward+LP+MP+HK (in other words, this is LP+MP kara into HK)
    3F backward+LK+HP

    I don't get why you've used hk here really. From my own testing, the quickest way i could get the demon out using this 'kara lniking' was lp-hp, lk-hp + back. He jabs once then demons very fast. How would you do a 'forward' demon per se? To clarify why doesnt the hk animation coem out using your method? Excuse my ignorance im not really an akuma player.
  • KIRBYSIMKIRBYSIM Joined: Posts: 105
    I don't get why you've used hk here really. From my own testing, the quickest way i could get the demon out using this 'kara lniking' was lp-hp, lk-hp + back. He jabs once then demons very fast. How would you do a 'forward' demon per se? To clarify why doesnt the hk animation coem out using your method? Excuse my ignorance im not really an akuma player.

    If you kara cancel LP~(LP+)HP, what happens is Akuma will throw out his s.LP, which happens to have a 3-frame start-up.

    You need at least three frames to perform the demon. So if you do it this way, Akuma will go from walking animation, to s.LP, to Ultra.

    The solution to this is to start with forward+LP+MP instead.

    If you use LP+MP as your first command, then the only buttons left to kara cancel with are HP and HK. If you try and kara with LK, Akuma does a whiffed throw. If MK, focus attack.

    I wouldn't use HP to kara cancel simply because this means you'd have to double tap the HP button, which is slow. And even if you have HP assigned to two separate buttons which you tap quickly, it's still slow - once you've input HP, unless you kara it, there is a brief cooldown before you can press HP again.

    So HK it is.

    Edit: The HK doesn't come out because your very first input was forward+LP+MP, which Akuma executes as forward+MP. Since Akuma is already committed to that move, when you kara with the HK, it doesn't execute.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I think there is something I don't quite grasp about this concept... I've being trying to execute Guile's c.lp > c.mp using this technique and it isn't working for me.
    What I'm doing is a little akin to some of the frame cancel moves in Soul Calibur, like Mitsurugi's kB.
    So I've tried pressing both buttons alsmost simultaneously, pressing c.mp slightly sooner, pressing and holding c.lp and releasing it at the time of the link together with c.mp and such... but I'm really not getting anything here.

    I feel like I have a case of the dumb... maybe it's because I'm on a fightpad?
  • whitecrowzwhitecrowz CKD Joined: Posts: 282
    If you do LP~MP right, here's what the input window in the training mode says:

    (second frame) LP+MP
    (first frame) LP

    Just go to training mode and try it. That's the way the game registers it.

    Thanks for the info.
    And yeah P-link sounds fly
  • jpr333jpr333 Joined: Posts: 140
    Ah i see now thx kirby, so essentially your starting a standing mp which is kara'd into the demon so he doesnt actually throw the mp animation cause you do it so fast? Even if i cant strictly do it your way on a 360 controller the jab to demon is friggin fast, great work!

    Nielsens it is hard on a controller because you've gotta try and spread your thumb over the two buttons, but it would go lp, mp-lp this last lp coming straight after the mp since it registers it as another mp in lp + mp.
  • WarahkWarahk Joined: Posts: 1,104
    Two other guile players have already mentioned this, but id like to verify that this technique does not seem to work with guiles bnb c.lp -> c.lp -> c.mp. In training mode the input display will read lp, lp, mp, lp+mp. So in theory i should be getting 2 chances to link mp, but for some reason lp+mp calls a jab. I find guiles link to be more consistent without this technique.


    Edit: Nevermind... this technique DOES work, the jab was coming out because the slide was too early. this has improved my consistancy for sure. Hopefully ill be able to replace boom with flashkick in guiles bnb now :)
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  • DestinDestin Ziggy Stardust Joined: Posts: 1,181
    My god if you only knew how much this is going to help my sakura.
    I am the hero.
    HERO KENZAN!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I just stumbled upon this on my own while training last night. I was trying the piano technique, but I just thought it'd be easier to hit 2 buttons instead of all 3. Takes a while to get used to, but it works.

    The thing is, I use Akuma and I usually use the LP srk, so I piano LP first, then MP. If I wanted HP, I'd piano HP~MP. But this whole issue of prioritizing the stronger attack of the 2 makes sense. I just thought I'd hit the strength I wanted first, then the strength next to it as backup for extra inputs.

    For those that are still having trouble linking normals, I learned something epic from MuKen over at the Akuma forums.

    The trick is to look at the arm/leg very closely. As soon as the limb pulls back, your window is open to press the next normal to link.

    For example, using Akuma, try:
    cr MP > cr MP
    cr MP > HP
    HK (2 hit) > cr LP

    If you're doing it right, it should register as a combo. Even if it doesn't combo because you missed the input window, the next normal will still come out really fast.
  • TDenekaTDeneka Joined: Posts: 665
    kirby linking is my vote, you should be remembered for bringing this to the community.
    Easy Operation
  • retiredjerkretiredjerk Joined: Posts: 169
    cool i gotta try this
  • BansheeBanshee Old School Joined: Posts: 401
    If I understand this correctly, I could do, with Gief:

    c.jab > c.jab > c.jab, c.short~c.jab XX jab greenhand ?

    I could even use negative edge on the jab for the greenhand.
    As for the mustache of your curl it is somewhere?
  • Ono-SendaiOno-Sendai Chocolate Ultra Joined: Posts: 177
    But I guess priority link sounds pretty apt. P-link sounds catchy. :bgrin:

    ahaha... man you could've called them whatever you wanted... you had the power!

    Now we'll never have a SF technique named after breasts...

    (I would've called them Titty-Links) :tup:
    Sipping on Genei-Gin and Juice

    (with my mind on my meter and my meter on my mind)
  • kenskkensk Joined: Posts: 358
    why dont we just name it appropriately instead of naming it after someone who didnt even discover it first. kara addition would be appropriate (addition of another input from nothing). or empty addition if we dont wanna suck on jap nuts. kara priority would also be fitting, priority link doesnt really indicate the fact that you can use it during a demon.

    kara linking is a deceiving name because it has more than one use.
    its up to kirby to name this, he found it and brought it to us.
    retarded. i "discovered" the balrog double ex kara (in the sense that i watched a japanese video and reverse engineered it) but i do not feel the need to name it something that its not.
  • HeaTBlaznHeaTBlazn Rameo Joined: Posts: 897
    so in theory we can get 3 button presses with hp mp lp?
    just making sure I understand it correctly

    good shit.

    Priority link for me
  • Jay WangJay Wang FrameDatas! Joined: Posts: 665
    very smart stuff
    thanks for sharing
    +rep pts
    - JayWang

    Don't Eat The Yellow Snow!
  • DevilKnightDevilKnight Joined: Posts: 773
    KIRBY didn't really discover this technique or bring it to the site. It came up on the Akuma forum a few days ago after the vid, and some guys there translated and clarified the theory behind it first. KIRBY dicided to apply the idea to links and post it here so other characters could try it.

    As for the vid, it should be recognised that it's not an instant or walking Ultra or something like that, it's just a really fast f+MP Kara, made fast by this technique. You'll still see a jab without the f+MP there.

    In all it cuts the input time for his Ultra over a normal double LP tap by about half.
  • JinraiJinrai Joined: Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I recommend calling it plinking. You know, like Plinko from The Price is Right without the "o." Rolls off the tongue well.
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