Plinking / Tsuji-Style: KARA BUFFER Inputs for Easier Links and More!

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Comments

  • PeterTheBohemianPeterTheBohemian @ggPeteQ Joined: Posts: 625
    This is correct, but plinking is still useful here because in this scenario if the the first input (mk) is pressed a frame too early nothing will happen, and the lk+mk will still complete the link in the next frame. Also using plinking here means if you do link 2 frames too early you will get that lk and your srk/flashkick etc will not come out, so you will not be punished.

    It is always better to plink. Everyone should learn plinking in my opinion, it WILL improve your execution in sf4.

    Easier said than done. That guile cross up combo I've been practicing for weeks, I can now do with like 60 - 80 percent consistency without plinking, but with plinking, I keep accidentally jabbing.
  • AyoChapAyoChap Reppin SoCal Joined: Posts: 230
    good find, helped lots of people with there sf game
  • WarahkWarahk Joined: Posts: 1,104
    Easier said than done. That guile cross up combo I've been practicing for weeks, I can now do with like 60 - 80 percent consistency without plinking, but with plinking, I keep accidentally jabbing.

    shouldve spent that time practicing with plinking.
    Avatar by Tatsu.
  • mr.sloppy2ndsmr.sloppy2nds Leykis_101 Joined: Posts: 375
    any tips for easier links with Guile?
  • redgatoraderedgatorade Joined: Posts: 53
    This is rediculously hard. Feels totally unnatural.
    Tekken 7: Gigas, Claudio
  • ditnditn Joined: Posts: 488
    Same for me,but thats due to my weird hand position on joystick i think
    (thumb on mk,next finger on lk and rest on punch buttons)
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Hm... didn't read all of the thread.. sry..

    but can you plink with lp~mk to get a mk link?

    like c.mp, lp~mk xx Nee Prezz with Bison?
  • MariodoodMariodood You Cant Escape..O_o Joined: Posts: 1,458
    Hm... didn't read all of the thread.. sry..

    but can you plink with lp~mk to get a mk link?

    like c.mp, lp~mk xx Nee Prezz with Bison?

    You would do MK~LP, but yes.
  • MechanicaMechanica elias the flyest Joined: Posts: 6,252
    (thumb on mk,next finger on lk and rest on punch buttons)

    wtf?
    KOForever WHY IS 14 SO UGLY whyyyy is alex's neutral stance so ugly
  • ditnditn Joined: Posts: 488
    yeah i know,no idea how it ever got to this:(
    My hand is rotated 45 degrees from normal hand position when typing.
    Should i relaearn my hand position?
  • mr.sloppy2ndsmr.sloppy2nds Leykis_101 Joined: Posts: 375
    Guys, please help me out. I'm having trouble understanding this theory.

    I use Guile and have worked out some combos but have trouble consistantly getting them out. I probably get the majority of them down 2 or 3 out of 10 times. I've linked them before so know they work!

    OP says:
    I've found this method to work more than 90% of the time for me - whereas double-tapping (perhaps due to my poor technique) works maybe half the time.

    ***

    The same thing can be done for MP, HP, HK links:

    MP links = MP~LP (or LK, but obviously LP is easier to hit)
    HP links = HP~MP (or MP or LK or LP, but obviously MP is easier to hit)
    HK links = HK~MK (see above)
    (Remember: you have to press both buttons almost simultaneously, but with the stronger-strength button a split-second earlier than the weaker-strength one)

    It also works for cr.LK, BUT ONLY IF your character's cr.LK is not chain-cancellable.

    cr.LK links = (while crouching) LK~LP

    This method will not work with cr.LP, due to the fact that down+cr.LP+cr.LK is always interpreted as cr.LK. It will also not work with standing LP or LK because then it becomes a kara throw.

    Disclaimer: this linking method will not automatically make you a link combo god - you still have to get the timing right and everything. Like double-tapping, this essentially turns a one-frame link into a two-frame link by giving you two chances to nail the input window.

    *****

    If you haven't figured it out yet, here's why it works:

    A couple of days ago I was practising my Kara throws in training mode with Akuma (HP~LP+LK) when I noticed something - the game recognises my kara throw input as:

    (second frame) LP+LK+HP
    (first frame) HP
    Note: The first input repeats itself when you do HP~LP+LK

    And as we all know, whenever two or more attack buttons of different strengths are pressed, the game will give you the strongest strength attack i.e. if you press LP+MP+HP, you'll see that the game executes that as a s.HP.

    In other words, if you were crouching, essentially the above input could be interpreted by the game as:

    (2nd frame) down+HP+LP+LK (you're stuck in animation, but if you were not, this would have been executed as cr.HP)
    (1st frame) down+HP (executed as a cr.HP)

    So what happens when you're in the recovery frames of some other move, like, say, Akuma's cr.LP? You now have two chances to nail the one-frame window required for cr.LP to cr.HP link, depending on if you hit the down+HP squarely on the window, or one frame before that. One-frame links become two-frames. Two-frame links become three, etc, etc.

    This is effectively a double-tap HP. Only thing is, you don't have to cram both of your fingers on a single button, which surely takes some level of finesse to pull off, especially under pressure. It should make link combos, in general, a lot easier. Personally I can hit cr.LP to cr.MK about 90% of the time.

    Some other examples you can try:
    Ryu's cr.MP, cr.MP, cr.HK
    Sagat's cr.LK x3 xx Tiger Knee

    ^^^I read it a few times and:
    Like double-tapping, this essentially turns a one-frame link into a two-frame link by giving you two chances to nail the input window.

    Ok, this part. I get that this technique will give you an extra frame to hit a one link.
    But what about 'two chances'?

    Does this mean that you would still have to double tap, c.mk~lk twice? Or you tap it once and because of the technique you get an extra fram per any given move?


    This:
    In other words, if you were crouching, essentially the above input could be interpreted by the game as:

    (2nd frame) down+HP+LP+LK (you're stuck in animation, but if you were not, this would have been executed as cr.HP)
    (1st frame) down+HP (executed as a cr.HP)

    Say if I want to pull off this combo w/Guile...

    How I do it:
    c.lk x2, c.lp, c.mp, FK

    with technique:

    c.mk~lk x2, c.mp~lp, c.hk~mk, FK <<---That's where I'm confused. Would all of my combos be changed to these inputs?

    How do you guys use this method?
  • mr.sloppy2ndsmr.sloppy2nds Leykis_101 Joined: Posts: 375
    Ok, I know that I misread or misunderstood.

    I tried this method and it didnt' work for me!\

    This:
    MP links = MP~LP (or LK, but obviously LP is easier to hit)
    HP links = HP~MP (or MP or LK or LP, but obviously MP is easier to hit)
    HK links = HK~MK (see above)
    (Remember: you have to press both buttons almost simultaneously, but with the stronger-strength button a split-second earlier than the weaker-strength one)

    I tried my combo:

    c.lk x2, c.lp, c.mp~lp, FK <<--at least that's how I think it works. But it didnt' work for me. Any advice? How could you tell you are doing it right?
  • TwistTwist RadarTrap Joined: Posts: 698
    I get that this technique will give you an extra frame to hit a one link.
    But what about 'two chances'?
    'two chances' is just referring to the 2 input frames that you have for it to work with plinking.
    Or you tap it once and because of the technique you get an extra fram per any given move?
    Yes, this.
    Say if I want to pull off this combo w/Guile...

    How I do it:
    c.lk x2, c.lp, c.mp, FK

    with technique:

    c.mk~lk x2, c.mp~lp, c.hk~mk, FK <<---That's where I'm confused. Would all of my combos be changed to these inputs?
    No. By doing cr.MK~LK x2 you're going to get a MK coming out. There's not really any need to plink light attacks anyway. The only one you need to plink is the link to cr.MP.
    c.lk x2, c.lp, c.mp~lp, FK <<--at least that's how I think it works. But it didnt' work for me. Any advice? How could you tell you are doing it right?
    You're trying to do exactly the right thing there - if it's not working you must be doing something wrong. The best way to find out what you're doing wrong is by trying in training mode with input display on and the dummy on auto-block. This is what you should get:
    :lp::mp:
    :mp:
    :lp:
    :lk:
    :lk:

    If the MP isn't coming out then you're doing it too soon, if the dummy blocks then you're doing it too late.
  • mr.sloppy2ndsmr.sloppy2nds Leykis_101 Joined: Posts: 375
    You're trying to do exactly the right thing there - if it's not working you must be doing something wrong. The best way to find out what you're doing wrong is by trying in training mode with input display on and the dummy on auto-block. This is what you should get:






    If the MP isn't coming out then you're doing it too soon, if the dummy blocks then you're doing it too late.

    Ok, so if I try my combo - c.lk x2, c.lp, c.mp~lp, FK - the mp button should appear once by itself, then again with lp, as you displayed above?

    I've been in training mode but not sure if I'm doing it right. I managed to hit the combo a few times but it still feels like I'm only hitting c.mp instead of c.mp~lp.
  • TwistTwist RadarTrap Joined: Posts: 698
    Ok, so if I try my combo - c.lk x2, c.lp, c.mp~lp, FK - the mp button should appear once by itself, then again with lp, as you displayed above?
    Yep, that's right.
    I've been in training mode but not sure if I'm doing it right. I managed to hit the combo a few times but it still feels like I'm only hitting c.mp instead of c.mp~lp.

    What does input display show when you do it? That'll tell you what you're doing wrong ...
  • ober08ober08 Joined: Posts: 30
    Ryu's kara throw is driving me crazy. HK - LP+LK. I've only managed to get it to come out a few times and I have to use both hands!!

    With one hand, i'm pressing the HK w/ my pinky and immediately rolling to the LP+LK. It seems I'm not fast enough because the HK comes out all the time, unless I use two hands.
  • mr.sloppy2ndsmr.sloppy2nds Leykis_101 Joined: Posts: 375
    Radar, thank you, dude. Like a douche bag, I hit the combo a few times but didn't turn on input display.

    I'm gonna try some more today.
  • reploidxreploidx Joined: Posts: 9
    This sounds ridiculous

    I just read about this yesterday, and haven't tried it yet, but from what I've read of the thread, not many are questioning this technique.

    A few tried explaining why it works, but not many are asking if it should work.

    So if you tell someone a combo is lp, lp, mp, and they try it and can't do it, then you say:

    "No, no, you're doing it all wrong. What you need to do is quickly press lp again after mp."

    "What?"

    "Press it really quickly after mp."

    "Yeah, I guess that makes sense. That's how I should do a lp, lp, mp combo."

    It sounds stupid and entirely unintuitive. Some things like pianoing or negative edge make some sense, but also aren't that intuitive. To me this sounds like it should be removed if possible.

    I think a one-to-one relationship to what you press on the stick to what the character does makes the most sense, and I guess more lenient timing is what would allow for that.

    The solution shouldn't be to have to press a weaker button just after the stronger one for a basic (or what used to be basic-er in older SFs) link combo.

    I think it sounds like it should be called B.S.linking.
  • ditnditn Joined: Posts: 488
    u mad?
  • mr.sloppy2ndsmr.sloppy2nds Leykis_101 Joined: Posts: 375
    ^^^ Well, I've been trying it and it works fine. Just have trouble getting it into muscle memory. In the heat of battle, plinking is the last thing I'm thinking about. But eventually it'll stick.
  • gmon37gmon37 Seattle DOJO Master Joined: Posts: 481
    see if slinkun or gilley will start a thread with guile specific plinking methods, im still a little unclear also as to how this is an effective tactic. pardon my blindness if its already there..
    SF3: Sean (Pink), Dudley (Pink), Urien (Papa Smurf)
    SFV: Guile, Urien, Nash

    Seattle's Toefu DOJO Master.
  • mr.sloppy2ndsmr.sloppy2nds Leykis_101 Joined: Posts: 375
    ^^^from what I understand and from what I see on the screen, plinking/buffering works.

    example:

    If you do a regular throw with Guile, he just does the throw animation. However, if you input the throw command as mp~lp+lk (kara throw), he actually takes a small step forward due to the mp animation, and then he does the throw.

    I've practiced the kara throw so much that I'll start off across the screen, and cuz I'm inputting the kara command, he actually 'steps' (you have to see it on screen to know what I mean) and throws almost at the same time.

    The technique on this thread is essentially the same thing.

    Say this combo: j.hk>c.lk>s.lp x3>s.hp~mp (buffer style), that last command, if you see it on screen looks slightly different, it looks like s.hp comes out a little quicker. I practiced this combo 10 times and nailed it 6 times (I did it more than that but just for the sake of the example). Before, I'd hit it maybe 2 or 3 out of 10.

    But to each his own. It works for me so I just gotta keep drilling it into my head. I know that it'll pay off eventually. With a 1 link character like Guile, I want every advantage possible.
  • ryden14ryden14 Joined: Posts: 31
    hey this ? doesnt have to do with the thread but i having trouble timing the links bc i come from preset combo doa4 lol like i heard it is equal to 4/4 timing in music but i am still having trouble. Is there anything you guys can recomend to me
  • werepigwerepig Joined: Posts: 1,215
    hey this ? doesnt have to do with the thread but i having trouble timing the links bc i come from preset combo doa4 lol like i heard it is equal to 4/4 timing in music but i am still having trouble. Is there anything you guys can recomend to me

    training mode.
  • Chun LiChun Li Spinning Bird Chick Joined: Posts: 52
    I understand the theory behind it, I just don't get why the game allows such a function to exist :looney:

    The game allows it because if the game didn't the multiple-simultaneously-pressed-button commands won't be as responsive as they are. As a programmer I'll explain to you and everyone why it exists and should exist.

    Kara-linking, p-linking or whatever they call it is actually known as overriding. In all programs that have multiple-simultaneously-pressed-button commands overriding exists. Before I explain how it works I want everyone to know what you subconsciously want the game to do when you input a command.

    1. When I press a button I want the command to execute immediately.
    2. When I want to press 2 or more buttons simultaneously I want the command to execute the command that I desire even if my other fingers are a split second later than my earliest finger on the press.

    Now, the program (the game) runs at 60 fps and in each and everyone of those frames a listener code is executed. It listens (obviously) to user input. Whenever you press a button, the listener code detects the input and proceeds with the output which solves problem 1 from above.

    Okay, so what happens if I press 2 buttons together? Simple. The listener code detects the 2 buttons as 1 input and does the output. Now imagine this, the program runs at 60 fps so the listener code refreshes every 1/60th of a second. If you press 2 buttons and one button is 1 frame later than the other then the command that you desire will not execute. In order for the program to be more responsive, the developers implemented an override listener code. An override listener code is kind of like a cancel. It starts when you press a button and ends after a few frames to give your late fingers enough frames/time to execute your desired command. So even if button A was pressed 1 frame earlier than button B the output will still be button A + B. This makes the program responsive and solves problem 2 from above.

    Now I'll explain why the kara-linking, p-linking or whatever you call it happens (I'd rather call it overriding). When you press and hold a button the override listener code starts counting frames. Before it has reached its frame count limit it will listen for inputs other than the one that executed it. If another button is pressed while the frame count limit is not yet reached, the program will OVERRIDE the command for the 1st button pressed into the command for the 2 buttons.

    This is why when you press and hold c.mk and press c.lk immediately 2 commands with 3 buttons appears. After c.mk is pressed and held, the program outputs the command for c.mk immediately (problem 1 from above). However, if the override has not expired yet and you pressed c.lk while still holding on to c.mk, the program will override and output the new command.

    This feature allows a command to execute immediately after pressing a button without making multiple-simultaneously-pressed-button commands difficult to pull off. Otherwise you'll have to press all 3 buttons in under 1/60th of a second to pull off an ultra. There's also no way around it if you want problem 1 and problem 2 to be solved. When you press a button the output has to come out immediately but you need more than 1/60th of a second for multiple-simultaneously-pressed-button commands (this is the last time I type this long bs term) to be responsive.
  • Chun LiChun Li Spinning Bird Chick Joined: Posts: 52
    I don't mean to double post but this forum is just effed up in terms of convenience. I get randomly logged out which resulted in this double post (it's originally the same as the one above but I edited it).

    Oh by the way, to make this double post useful, I'll tell you why sometimes or most of the time you fail at overriding and instead of the

    lk+mk
    mk

    you only see

    lk+mk

    It's quite simple. You beat 1/60th of a second even though you didn't press them at the same time (which is actually impossible in reality).

    Personally, I wouldn't use this method to get 1 frame links to connect and the reason is it doesn't guarantee a link after you successfully do it. It gives you 2 frames but you still have to time it and its not so easy to pull off let alone timing it with the 1 frame link. I also don't double tap because that's worse. Double tapping or multiple tapping will only be effective if you can tap 1/60th of a second consecutively (all hail he who can do this). Otherwise it just messes up the timing.

    Single tapping is the best way to successfully execute a 1 frame link (for me that is). It's one of those things that you have to master by practicing and practicing and practicing. This is kind of like shooting in basketball. The best way to master it is to practice. Oh and you might want to look for an indicator to make things easier. When I use Chun Li's c.lp > s.hp I time s.hp when one of Ryu's eyes opens after closing from the hit.
  • KichKich Joined: Posts: 1,126
    This is pretty useful; a bit hard on a pad but certainly does make linking lp > mp easier on my guile. (At first I didn't understand you still had to wait a moment before hitting it, assumed this was intended to be quickly done like a combo or something)
    I hit confirm with standing fierce punch.
  • MnoMno 哈哈哈 Joined: Posts: 2,322
    Ryu's kara throw is driving me crazy. HK - LP+LK. I've only managed to get it to come out a few times and I have to use both hands!!

    With one hand, i'm pressing the HK w/ my pinky and immediately rolling to the LP+LK. It seems I'm not fast enough because the HK comes out all the time, unless I use two hands.

    Ryu's kara throw is pretty useless.


    Anyway, with plinking, I can successfully f.hp, c.hp, hp srk now since I picked up Ryu 2 days ago. Happy.
    i hate video games.
  • KenshinhimoraKenshinhimora Joined: Posts: 352
    Took a bit of getting used to (I was always hitting the second button too slow apparently stupid Sanwa buttons being so responsive <_<) but now I can do most of the BnB combos for characters with ease, great find!
    If you wish to taste the ground, feel free to attack me.
  • amroamro Chunanigans Joined: Posts: 261
    When I use Chun Li's c.lp > s.hp I time s.hp when one of Ryu's eyes opens after closing from the hit.

    Do you only play against Ryu, or do you memorize visual cues for every matchup? I find it much easier to use aural cues.
  • buddaz1gbuddaz1g #1pothead Joined: Posts: 19
    thanks for this usefull info
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Sounds like a complete game changer for me, my 1-frame links are so bad I'll take whatever I can get.

    Thanks Kirby, can't wait to try this one out!
  • HoffburgerHoffburger Joined: Posts: 267
    Good post, would rep if I could.
  • focushinfocushin Joined: Posts: 88
    read the thread last night, tried it out this morning...

    for ryu (sorry if this was answered) not sure if cr.lp x cr.lp x cr.hp is a 1 frame(?) ...but it's definitely easier for me to piano hard punch and medium punch when my fingers are already there. i got my first stick a few days ago so i'm thinking maybe it's easier because it's in my head, not in my muscle memory yet. it works for me so... thanks alot
  • WarahkWarahk Joined: Posts: 1,104
    its 2 frames

    here are some of his 1 frame links
    f.HP --> c.MP/c.HP
    c.LP/c.MP --> c.MK/c.HK
    f.MP-->SRK
    Avatar by Tatsu.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Some other examples you can try:
    Ryu's cr.MP, cr.MP, cr.HK




    EDIT: rewrote a few things. Special thanks to everyone who's helped clarify things. :D


    so for that ryu combo you would do:

    lp+mp - lp+mp - lk+hk?
  • WarahkWarahk Joined: Posts: 1,104
    You don't need to plink the first c.MP. Also, i think its easier to plink HK with MK

    The notation you used looks like simultaneous presses. Plinking requires you to press the buttons in succession.
    Avatar by Tatsu.
  • KIRBYSIMKIRBYSIM Joined: Posts: 105
    Yeah, you don't need to p-link the first MP, but I do it all the time out of habit anyway.

    So for the Ryu example the command I'd enter would be:

    (while crouching the whole time)
    MP~LP -> MP~LP -> HK~MK

    You can p-link with any button that's considered to be "weaker" than the attack you're trying to execute (i.e. to p-link MP, you can enter MP~LP, or MP~LK. For HK, you can enter HK~HP, HK~MK, HK~MP, HK~LK, or HK~LP). But obviously it's easier to hit the button adjacent to whatever you're trying to pull off.

    For p-linking I think it's fairly important that you understand two things:

    1) when you do a slide input (press the second button one frame after the first button) like AA~BB, the first input (AA) will be repeated in the second frame (AA+BB).

    2) Whenever the game detects an AA+BB simultaneous input, it will always give you the strongest attack button in the following order:

    LP (weakest), LK, MP, MK, HP, HK (strongest).

    Therefore HK+HP is executed as HK.

    ***********

    Warahk mentioned that Ryu had a f.MP-->SRK one-frame link.

    I'm not a Ryu player so I've never tried this before, but I presume the command for hitting that one-frame would be:

    f.MP -> 623+MP~LK or HP~MK?

    Because if you try to p-link the shoryuken with two punch buttons like 623+ MP~LP, you'll get an EX shoryuken.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Yeah, you don't need to p-link the first MP, but I do it all the time out of habit anyway.

    So for the Ryu example the command I'd enter would be:

    (while crouching the whole time)
    MP~LP -> MP~LP -> HK~MK

    You can p-link with any button that's considered to be "weaker" than the attack you're trying to execute (i.e. to p-link MP, you can enter MP~LP, or MP~LK. For HK, you can enter HK~HP, HK~MK, HK~MP, HK~LK, or HK~LP). But obviously it's easier to hit the button adjacent to whatever you're trying to pull off.

    what if i was trying c.strong -c.strong - fireball. same thing except instead of the c.roundhouse, its a fireball.
    it would be c.strong -c strong~jab - fireball motion?
  • KIRBYSIMKIRBYSIM Joined: Posts: 105
    Yep.

    C.strong (wait half a second) p-link into c.strong (immediately) cancel into Hadouken.

    ******

    On another note, has anyone been able to do Ryu's forward+MP -> shoryuken? I gave it a go earlier, but it doesn't seem to connect. :/
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