1-800-help-a-nub; The FAQ

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  • ClxJamesClxJames Still A Beginner... Joined: Posts: 2,548
    Yea, I thought Reversals have special frame properties like Counter Hits?
    Not all 09's are created equally - http://www.youtube.com/user/SheltonShenanigans
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Maybe you could add this. I've asked before and not gotten a clear answer.

    Why do focus attacks sometimes get stuffed by normal, non-armor-breaking attacks? I've seen it on youtube, but could not find an example at time of posting.
  • TwistTwist RadarTrap Joined: Posts: 698
    Maybe you could add this. I've asked before and not gotten a clear answer.

    Why do focus attacks sometimes get stuffed by normal, non-armor-breaking attacks? I've seen it on youtube, but could not find an example at time of posting.

    I think there's two ways that a FA can be stuffed by non-armour breaking normals:
    1. The normal(s) hit more than once
    2. The normal hits during the startup frames of the attacking part of a lvl1 or lvl2 FA (after you've let go of mk+mp but before its active frames). I think only lvl3 FAs have super armour.

    Can anyone confirm?
  • ZaotsuZaotsu Joined: Posts: 39
    Maybe you could add this. I've asked before and not gotten a clear answer.

    Why do focus attacks sometimes get stuffed by normal, non-armor-breaking attacks? I've seen it on youtube, but could not find an example at time of posting.

    Do you remember if the person used two attacks in a row? Focus attacks have the same properties as moves with armor, or vice versa, whichever way you wanna look at it. They only absorb one hit, so, for example, if you tried to FA someone and they used two quick jabs, you'd get knocked out of it.

    Edit: Wow, ninja'd.

    @ Above, I recall seeing both in matches, though I'm not sure about lvl 3 FA having super armor.
    SSFIV - Sakura, Cammy
    BlazBlue - Taokaka
  • TwistTwist RadarTrap Joined: Posts: 698
    This post by shiningsoul in the Rufus forum says:
    Saving Attack Lv1: 1~10F or 1F after button's are released: Has super armor.
    Crumples on ground Counter Hit. Puts opponent in jugglable state on air hit. From frames 5~11 or on hit/block can cancel into dash/back dash. If charged, saving attack hits on frame 12 after releasing the buttons.

    Saving Attack Lv2: 1~1F after button's are released: Has super armor.
    Crumples on ground hit. Floats opponent on air hit. From frames 5~ buttons released or on hit/block can cancel into dash/back dash. Charge time: 17-49F. If charged, saving attack hits on frame 12 after releasing the buttons.

    Saving Attack Lv3: 1~57F has super armor. Breaks super armor.
    Crumples on ground hit. Floats opponent on air hit. From frames 5~50 can cancel into dash/back dash. Charge time: 50F.

    I'm not sure if that applies to all characters' FAs, but it seems right...
    :tup:
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    The focus attack can only absorb one hit. What I am trying to describe is the first hit of a normal attack stuffing the focus attack.

    That is a good explanation, RadarTrap. Maybe during those 12 frames of startup upon release (or however many, depending on character) you lose the super armor. I will change my play to reflect this.
  • allstylesallstyles Joined: Posts: 79
    if you hit the focus attack when the focus is in the attacking frames, it does not have armor...
  • BentoBoxBentoBox Bop Alloy Joined: Posts: 668
    Aren't most non-fireball special moves armor-breaking upon reversal?
    Yea, I thought Reversals have special frame properties like Counter Hits?

    Yeah, I know that Shoryuken has armor breaking properties on reversal; does that apply to all non-fireball specials? I'll change that paragraph accordingly~
    Yo I been to this site a couple times, but I don't ever see any1 in the chat rooms or anything. Just wondering if it is always unactive or if I just got bad timing.
    Also, thanks for the info this stuff helps.

    Yeah, it is a shame that not many people take advantage of the Chat~ There's nothing I can really tell you at this point that would help other than hope that it picks up and gains popularity/exposure over the summer~
    Only dead fish swim with the stream~
  • TwistTwist RadarTrap Joined: Posts: 698
    Yeah, I know that Shoryuken has armor breaking properties on reversal; does that apply to all non-fireball specials?

    Yes it does. :angel:

    EDIT:
    Don't forget to take this out:
    However, there seem to be some exceptions to the rule. For example, Guile can FADC through the first hit of his cr.HK (sweep).

    It's incorrect. See my post above.
  • CuzCuz Joined: Posts: 544
    how do you cancel out of an ex move and dash back or forward? haha im serious tho.

    You might be seeing a normal special cancelled with FA + Dash (44 or 66). When you cancel with FA you get that yellow ex glow.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    great thread. you have collected and organized a great list. Thanks!
  • BentoBoxBentoBox Bop Alloy Joined: Posts: 668
    Added a Q about input shortcuts. For some, its a godsend (I personally had a hard time performing 2x QCF motions on a square gate) for others, it's a hindrance. Anyways, if you didn't know about them, it might make your life a lot easier, especially if you're starting out!
    Only dead fish swim with the stream~
  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 6,388
    Where can I find execution window frame data? In other words, how many frames do you have to execute :qcf: + :p: for the game to recognize it as a fireball?

    edit:
    Apparently DP's have a fixed 15 frame window in HDR.
    All Dragon Punches are easier because the timing window to perform them is no longer random - you now always get a 15 frame window
    http://www.sirlin.net/articles/street-fighter-hd-remix-design-overview.html

    Are SFIV's input windows fixed or random/probabilistic?
  • TwistTwist RadarTrap Joined: Posts: 698
    Where can I find execution window frame data? In other words, how many frames do you have to execute :qcf: + :p: for the game to recognize it as a fireball?

    Unless you can accurately measure time in tiny fractions of seconds that info isn't actually going to help you. You're best off going into training mode and trying, through trial and error, to find the feel of how slowly you can do it before the move doesn't come out. SF4 is very lenient in this respect.

    To answer your question though, I don't think that info has been made public and it would be very difficult to accurately reverse engineer it through experimentation.
  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 6,388
    Unless you can accurately measure time in tiny fractions of seconds that info isn't actually going to help you.

    Well I'm thinking of writing a little program that accepts button inputs and based on frame data it will tell you what moves will execute. Maybe it can be used as a combo-trainer or something like that. I can't make it too advanced if I don't have realistic data though.

    [edit]
    Something like this with less flash and more detail.
  • eoneoeoneo i quit a sf Joined: Posts: 501
    Is it possible to FA from a non-special move cancelable normal (eg ken cr. rh/hk)?

    No.

    However, there seem to be some exceptions to the rule. For example, Guile can FADC through the first hit of his cr.HK (sweep).

    i was arguing with someone about this. he said FADC-ability had nothing to do with special or super cancel properties. i won. haha

    so it turns out, normals can be FADC'd if

    a) they can be special cancelled, OR
    b) they can be super cancelled.

    so yeah, i know for sure that guile and boxer can SUPER cancel from their sweep, and that's why they can FADC out of them. same goes for ryu and dan's close HK. the only other example that comes to mind is ryu's far standing MP. i don't play enough other characters to site more examples, though haha. i know the original japanese frame data from a long time ago listed cancellability though. haven't had a chance to see the new one yet.

    i thought it was a retarded feature to be able to super cancel a sweep at first, but then i realized it's probably an option to bait and punish an FA from the opponent.
    BEARcade
  • BentoBoxBentoBox Bop Alloy Joined: Posts: 668
    Good stuff eoneo :D! Thanks a lot~

    Modified the OP.
    Only dead fish swim with the stream~
  • TreasureDenTreasureDen Joined: Posts: 79
    I have a question for focus armor.

    As seen in this video at 1:57 :

    How do you block the c.mk and could still do focus attack to absorb the hadoken? I try this and I'm stuck in block stun. Even when I release the joystick, my character will still block, I can't get the focus attack to come out.
  • Stuart HaydenStuart Hayden Outspoken User. Joined: Posts: 11,639
    Cool.
    R.I.P Seth Michael Hayden
    R.I.P Troy Lane Rogers

    Fuck Dan Marino
    Fuck $RK

    www.breakdancingrobot.com
  • epy0nkaruepy0nkaru Pad Warrior Kain Joined: Posts: 386
    Careful guys, I think you're talking about two separate things. I think the original wording of that line in the FAQ needs re-writing to make it clearer, but it is correct.

    BentoBox's FAQ was saying that if you do a 'special move cancellable' normal move, then you can cancel it with a FA - but if you do a 'NON special move cancellable' normal then you can't cancel it with a FA.

    epy0nkaru is saying that you can FA a 'NON special move cancellable' normal that your opp has thrown out.

    ...at least that's the way I read it... :sweat:


    no no i meant that GUILE can cancel out of the first hit of his cr.hk
    Rose
  • ZaotsuZaotsu Joined: Posts: 39
    I have a question for focus armor.

    As seen in this video at 1:57 :

    How do you block the c.mk and could still do focus attack to absorb the hadoken? I try this and I'm stuck in block stun. Even when I release the joystick, my character will still block, I can't get the focus attack to come out.

    Are you standing right next to Ken when he does his c.mk? If he does it from about the farthest that he can, and then cancels into a Hadoken, you can put in a focus attack in the middle. I guess the little extra distance that the Hadoken has to follow gives your character enough time to get out of blockstun.
    SSFIV - Sakura, Cammy
    BlazBlue - Taokaka
  • S-LaughterS-Laughter Joined: Posts: 342
    I didn't read passed the first posts, I saw there was no stun information. I'm playing fuerte, and the stun is a strong part of his game. Can I please get some info on stun?

    edit: And by stun, I mean daze?
    < SF5 - Steam zentooshi - CFN Shosuko - PS4 S-Laughter - CFN Rainbo-nana-Mika >
  • TwistTwist RadarTrap Joined: Posts: 698
    no no i meant that GUILE can cancel out of the first hit of his cr.hk

    Yeah eoneo's post above cleared it up for me. I was confused.... :sweat:
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Good thread with good info.

    It'd be better without all the upfront fellatiating of the SRK "OG Superstars" though. I can see why you've done it since it's pretty much required for an 09'r to start all posts talking about how scruby he is and how unworthy of the "experts" time he is in order to not get flamed or neg-repped.

    It's a message board. About a video game. You can get anymore nerdy than that. There's nothing to worship here.

    Good info though.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I have a question.

    I always thought a j.mk, c.jab, c.jab for example would give me enough frame advantage to do a throw or followup move safely without having to worry about an enemy jab for example. But nevertheless I often eat a SRK or jab etc. while doing a double c.jab. How is that possible with frame advantages/blockstun?

    Thanks.
  • BentoBoxBentoBox Bop Alloy Joined: Posts: 668
    Good thread with good info.

    It'd be better without all the upfront fellatiating of the SRK "OG Superstars" though. I can see why you've done it since it's pretty much required for an 09'r to start all posts talking about how scruby he is and how unworthy of the "experts" time he is in order to not get flamed or neg-repped.

    It's a message board. About a video game. You can get anymore nerdy than that. There's nothing to worship here.

    Good info though.

    They were not all "OG Superstars". As stated, most of the questions' answers were given in the SF4 BEGINNERS THREAD by random members of the SRK community, old and new, and I just wasn't comfortable with taking all credit for simply compiling information coming from other people's mouths. Take it as referencing if you will; nothing in my tone indicated worshiping... I'm simply thanking them~
    Only dead fish swim with the stream~
  • TroNTroN Greetings Program! Joined: Posts: 105
    Excellent thread that answers many of my questions. Thank you!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    The shortcuts should help me. Lately I've been accused of spamming specials. But, I'm trying to pull of an ultra or super. I end up with a special. I guess stick control help too?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    gauging a new players progression

    I haven't played since SF2, picked up SF4 and found a strong nostalgic connection plus a whole new level of play obviously since SF2. Problem is with all the changes since SF2 Ive found my skills are barely ably to carry me through very easy arcade mode. The last 3 weeks Ive put about 60 hours into the championship mode and now find myself half way through the G2-E rank, after seeing the GP points required to rank up to the next levels if feel like I'm moving very slowly. I know it takes a lot of time to get better at this game and was just wondering how much time/progress new players like me are clocking. I want to make it clear that I'm not complaining just looking for help to benchmark my progress!
  • BentoBoxBentoBox Bop Alloy Joined: Posts: 668
    Updated with Hotobu's Guide at the top of the Helpful Links section~
    *NEW* -SRK's Hotobu Guide/Lexicon
    Hotobu wrote a massive guide/lexicon which breaks down every single term and system pertaining to SF as simply as possible. Gathers pretty much all the relevant information you'll find on sonichurricane.com and other sites of the like in one convenient location!
    Only dead fish swim with the stream~
  • Nemesys_SyndromeNemesys_Syndrome What the?! Where?! Joined: Posts: 2,412
    I haven't played since SF2, picked up SF4 and found a strong nostalgic connection plus a whole new level of play obviously since SF2. Problem is with all the changes since SF2 Ive found my skills are barely ably to carry me through very easy arcade mode. The last 3 weeks Ive put about 60 hours into the championship mode and now find myself half way through the G2-E rank, after seeing the GP points required to rank up to the next levels if feel like I'm moving very slowly. I know it takes a lot of time to get better at this game and was just wondering how much time/progress new players like me are clocking. I want to make it clear that I'm not complaining just looking for help to benchmark my progress!

    You're in the same boat as me. I'm also in the G2-E rank as well. Although I've mostly given up on playing CE rankings (almost). But it's a slow and steady uphill battle. It does take awhile. Although you can pick a DP masher and fly through the competition as well. lol.
  • JoontheBaboonJoontheBaboon Ken Masters. Joined: Posts: 1,518
    Hey guys, I'm having a little problem: I have a '46 Samsung 1080 P / 120 HZ / LCD HDTV. Both my controllers on my PS3 had slow response time, but when I connected the HDMI cable it was responsive. I got the Tournament Edition Fight stick today but for some reason the joy stick has slow response time (only the joystick, not the buttons). I've tried my friend's TE Fight Stick on XBOX 360 and it wasn't like this.

    Help?
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    Twitter.com/JoontheBaboon
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    im a newbie and for the life of me cannot figure out the fadc->ultra with any character. ive been practicing with ryu just to get the basics of it. but right as i come out of dash the opponent is half way back to the ground. and by the time i finish inputting the ultra he's already hit the ground. i've read countless threads on how to do it, watched every single youtube video on how to do it. spent from 11:30pm until 7am with not one successful attempt. sigh. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
  • TwistTwist RadarTrap Joined: Posts: 698
    im a newbie and for the life of me cannot figure out the fadc->ultra with any character. ive been practicing with ryu just to get the basics of it. but right as i come out of dash the opponent is half way back to the ground. and by the time i finish inputting the ultra he's already hit the ground. i've read countless threads on how to do it, watched every single youtube video on how to do it. spent from 11:30pm until 7am with not one successful attempt. sigh. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    It's just practice mate. Everybody has difficulty with this move when they first try to learn it. This thread has good suggestions on how to break it down and practice the individual components before putting them all together.

    For me (and everyone else I'd imagine) you start out not being able to do it at all. Then eventually you can do it sometimes in training mode. Then you can do it most of the time in training mode. Then you get lucky one day and do it in a match. Eventually you can pull it out regularly in matches, but only when you're lucky and they don't block. Then finally you'll reach the point where you can do it regularly in matches and only throw out the ultra if the shoryuken was successful.

    I don't know about anyone else but I certainly didn't become comfortable with it in one night....
  • CuzCuz Joined: Posts: 544
    im a newbie and for the life of me cannot figure out the fadc->ultra with any character. ive been practicing with ryu just to get the basics of it. but right as i come out of dash the opponent is half way back to the ground. and by the time i finish inputting the ultra he's already hit the ground. i've read countless threads on how to do it, watched every single youtube video on how to do it. spent from 11:30pm until 7am with not one successful attempt. sigh. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    You don't have to wait until FA hits the oponent to input the dash. You can dash the moment your character starts moving for his strike. If you look in the Guile forum there's a video of how to fadc into his ultra, it'll give you a good example of how early you can dash cancel.
  • BentoBoxBentoBox Bop Alloy Joined: Posts: 668
    Acrid, I would suggest trying to get it down with Gouken first as I do believe he has the biggest window to input the Ultra after the FADC~ It goes Ex palm (srk motion) -> FADC -> Ultra/Super.

    And like Cuz said, you can dash really early, so at first you should just practice on getting your SRK -> FADC down, just to get the dash timing down, and once you're confident with said timing, buffer your 2x QCF right after you've dashed (you don't need to wait for your character to dash on screen) and press 3P right after your character actually DOES dash.

    Alternatively, you can :dp:+:p: -> [:mp:+:mk:+:qcf::qcf:] -> :3p:; if you do it fast enough, the two :r:s in the 2x QCF will actually buffer your dash as well as count as your ultra motion~ Though I would suggest to learn it the normal way first,as you get more proficient with your inputs, you might want to give this a try.
    Only dead fish swim with the stream~
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    tried again. still can't get it. tried with gouken. im pretty sure what im doing wrong has to do with the timing between the dash and the ultra-input. oh well. practice'll pay off i guess. thank you all for the help. i really appreciate it. pce.
  • HotobuHotobu Simpsonized Joined: Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG


    :r: Helpful Links:

    *NEW* -SRK's Hotobu Guide/Lexicon
    Hotobu wrote a massive guide/lexicon which breaks down every single term and system pertaining to SF as simply as possible. Gathers pretty much all the relevant information you'll find on sonichurricane.com and other sites of the like in one convenient location!

    I'm not trying to self promote here, but apparently my FAQ has gotten a decent number of hits, and I'm looking for some feedback.
  • IceWillyIceWilly SJC into NOTHING Joined: Posts: 331
    quick question.

    Why do certain moves break armor... that are not in fact armor breaking? Honda's butt splash for one has shattered me mid focus. Given him counter hit as well. I do not believe I released the FA prior to him hitting me, but i am not ruling it out.

    The only thing I can think of is that it was a reversal sumo splash from a wake up.

    So the question becomes... in what situations are non armor breaking moves in fact able to break armor. (assume standing focus attacks, not moves with EX armor)

    Reversals?
    Reversals only on wakeup?
    All specials performed as reversals?

    Thanks for the clarification
  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Joined: Posts: 10,369
    any special as a reversal, on wakeup or otherwise, will break armor
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