1-800-help-a-nub; The FAQ

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  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 6,388
    Ken's fireball comes out only 1 frame slower than Ryu's does.. is that enough of a difference to prevent him from zoning with his fireball the same way Ryu does?

    He also recovers two frames slower. Ryu's much, much better at zoning with fireballs.
  • Hotrod08Hotrod08 Joined: Posts: 101
    ilitirit & Glasgowkiss: ahh yes, I didn't realize Ken's srk comes out slower and that his fireball recovers two frames slower.

    Glasgowkiss: I can't believe I forgot about ken's kara-throw.. I use it all the time haha and yes, now that I think about it Chun-li and Cammy's dash throws are indeed deadly. Chun-li's hit overhead/aerial target combo owns...

    However, I've never seen Chun-li's overhead special comboed into anything, much less super since most chunners I've seen use EX for EX bird. Her df HK, a move that starts from off the ground, doesn't seem very ambiguous to me, although this could just be from me playing her a lot and knowing the exact range/spacing of it.
  • pennylanepennylane Joined: Posts: 382
    However, I've never seen Chun-li's overhead special comboed into anything, much less super since most chunners I've seen use EX for EX bird. Her df HK, a move that starts from off the ground, doesn't seem very ambiguous to me, although this could just be from me playing her a lot and knowing the exact range/spacing of it.

    Chun-li can combo into super from her overhead special (hazanshu). Using her super is becoming a little more common, from videos I've seen. It's 2-frame start-up makes it useful to counter lots of different attacks after block.

    I believe her df HK doesn't have to cross-up at the right ranges (on wake-up?), but I can never get it to work right. I recall seeing videos of it (but my memory sucks).
    Bay Area / USF4, SFV / PSN: Rufus_Gunderson
  • ExMachinaExMachina valar morghulis Joined: Posts: 276
    Am I missing anything else? Ken, Cammy, Chun-li don't have a command throw, ambiguous cross up, or special overhead attack, so why are they considered good rushers?

    Tiger Knee Cannon Strike is arguably the best anti-throw/tech in the game - Since she has such a high footspeed and excellent hitconfirms (c.LP/c.LK can be linked/chained easily into knockdowns), she will be tick throwing you. Once you start teching or trying to throw back, Cammy's set you up to land TK CS and get 300-400 damage easily.

    So yeah, fast meter building, a quick walk, TKCS, and high damage is what makes Cammy scary when she's in your face.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Don't forget to complete the trials. It helps your game a lot and gives you a better understanding of the game.
  • bytexbytex Huge Gaming Penis Joined: Posts: 490
    Either that or it teaches you how to pound your head against the wall in frustration over not getting "Normal 4, part 3" right for the 200th time in a row :smile:
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I have a question about armor breaking.

    Sorry if it has been asked before and answered but okay... When a character is charging a focus attack, sometimes I am able to break through it with a rising move (Cannon Spike, SRK) but sometimes I am unable to. What are the factors and properties that determine whether the armor will break or not if the move is not the character's "official" armor break special move?
  • ExMachinaExMachina valar morghulis Joined: Posts: 276
    ^Moves gain armor-breaking properties if they're done as a reversal. So if you do a wake-up special on the earliest possible frame when recovering, it will beat FAs.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    does that include other special moves? Or are they specific to rising moves?

    Like Spiral Arrow for example? (I main Cammy)
  • ExMachinaExMachina valar morghulis Joined: Posts: 276
    Yeah, any special move done as a reversal will armor-break, not just the dragon punches. So if you do Spiral Arrow immediately as you get up and get that "reversal" text, it will go through FAs.

    Mind you, wakeup isn't the only situation that you can reversal, though it's the most common one. You can also do it after recovering from blockstun and getting hit in the air with a move that doesn't knock down.

    (cool, I main Cammy too =D)
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  • TreasureDenTreasureDen Joined: Posts: 79
    Does anyone have a video shows exactly how to double tap link? Like if I want to do c.lp > c.lp > c.hp with a 1 frame link c.hp. How do I double tap to make it easier to link?
  • mr. newbiemr. newbie 2 frame reversals :D Joined: Posts: 671
    training mode. ps3. te stick

    when i set it to record it always ends up doing random things i did not do during the recording period. sometimes it just skips an entire ultra.

    why is this
    Its not a videogames videogame. Its certainly not a gamers videogame. Its candy for gamers, about videogames, expressed as a videogame.
  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 6,388
    training mode. ps3. te stick

    when i set it to record it always ends up doing random things i did not do during the recording period. sometimes it just skips an entire ultra.

    why is this

    It's because of things like hit pause, cancelling, getting knocked down, and switching directions. The record feature records your inputs, not your moves. So if you do a move that immediately follows another one (or is buffered from it), it might come out differently if the previous move hit because hit pause adds a bit of delay so the moves go slightly out of sync.
  • ewalbewalb Joined: Posts: 76
    i dont know where else to put thsi but does anyone know where i can pick up one of those "no you cannot" shirts that sherryjenix was wearing or one of the "lets go justin" shirts?
  • KulanaKulana Just a Scrub Joined: Posts: 14
    Not sure if the OP is still around but alot of the blogs he posted haven't been posted on in a very long time. Still good info, but could be noted by the links?
  • Niko9193Niko9193 NVNiko Joined: Posts: 864
    I'm not a nub but I have dumb question. Why if I'm doing a block string combo on Balrog and he mashes a cr jab, I don't get CH like the rest of the cast?
  • DannkkDannkk Joined: Posts: 1,761
    A normal has startup frames, active frames and recovery frames. Active frames are when the attack will hit someone, and the frames that you're opponent can get a counterhit on.
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  • T37 RampageT37 Rampage DGAF Joined: Posts: 1,264




    These videos should be required watching for all new players.
    anime swag
  • Hotrod08Hotrod08 Joined: Posts: 101
    I understand that there is no such thing as priority in SFIV, and it's all about when/where active frames of attacks are, when/where vulnerable hitboxes are, plus whether or not someone had invincibility frames.

    With that said, why am I able to randomly, CLEANLY poke (i.e not a trade) a boxer spamming crouching light punches with..say... Claw's crouching medium punch some times, but get beat or traded by Boxer most of the other times?

    I assume that Boxer's vulnerable hit box is where it should logically be throughout his attack (i.e. anywhere but his fist) and I assume Claw's active hit box during the active frames of his attack are where it logically should be too (just his claw).

    Boxer's crouching jab has 2 frames of startup, 2 active frames, and 5 recovery frames.
    So a Boxer's spamming jab looks like this:

    frame 1: startup
    frame 2: startup
    frame 3: hit
    frame 4: hit
    frame 5: recovery
    frame 6: recovery
    frame 7: recovery
    frame 8: recovery
    frame 9: recovery
    frame 10: startup
    frame 11: startup
    frame 12: hit
    frame 13: hit
    frame 14: recovery
    frame 15: recovery
    frame 16: recovery
    frame 17: recovery
    frame 18: recovery
    frame 19: startup
    etc. etc.

    Claw's crouching medium punch becomes active on frame 4. So am I simply getting lucky and starting up Claw's crouching medium punch out of Boxer's reach and/or during Boxer's recovery frames and hitting Boxer during the Boxer's startup/recovery frames?

    If Claw is OUTSIDE the boxer's range, then Claw is safe on the startup and recovery frames of his cr. medium punch and Claw is able to hit him on 7 out of 9 frames (Boxer's 2 + 5 frames of startup and recovery).

    So looking at a repeatedly jabbing Boxer, let's look at just two jabs back-to-back which is 18 frames. If Claw is JUST INSIDE Boxer's hitting range (i.e. if Claw is close enough so that he would be vulnerable to a hit during his startup animation) I can only start up Claw's jab on frames 5, 6, 7, 8 to cleanly hit boxer with it. So I only have a 4/18 chance of beating him. So can I say that Claw's cr. medium punch only has a 2/9 chance of cleanly beating Boxer's jab spamming if Claw is JUST WITHIN the Boxer's hitting range?

    If Boxer and Claw are RIGHT NEXT to each other, any repeated non-comboing, non-knockdown attack pushes two players away from each other on hit or block so we don't look at repeated jabbing, we look at just a single usage of each attack... Boxer's cr. light punch always beats Claw's cr. medium punch, since Boxer's attack comes out at 3 frames, while Claw's comes out in 4.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    On a similar topic, can someone explain exactly how fast refresh/linking works with cancels, and how I can avoid locking myself into a fast refresh/linking cycle so I can cancel into a special?

    For example, on Bison, one of the main combos is something like cr.lk, cr.lk, cr.lk, lk.sk.

    If I spam the LK button like a motherfucker, I'm inclined to enter into a fast refresh/linking cycle that will mean that I can't cancel the final LK into a scissors kick, right?

    Maybe it's only light punches, not kicks, and that might be why people do that cr.LP, st.lp, cr.mk, SK of the flavor of your choice combo, but this whole thing isn't documented nearly as well as one might hope in the frame data, FAQs, etc, with the best explanations I've found being like two sentences of description.

    Anyone willing to give me a more in-depth answer?
  • GlasgowkissGlasgowkiss Joined: Posts: 119
    The fast linking/mashing that you find you cant cancel from is called chaining. You've got to aim for a precise rhythm to link moves rather than chaining moves. I believe you can chain the first two c.lks of bisons BnB and so long as you properly link the third, then you can hit the lk.sk, but links are the best policy: 1 press per hit unless you're using advanced techniques.

    Try messing about with a metronome till you find the beat of the links if you have trouble with it. That helped me through sagats trials and then its almost the same for bison and balrogs BnBs.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    The fast linking/mashing that you find you cant cancel from is called chaining. You've got to aim for a precise rhythm to link moves rather than chaining moves. I believe you can chain the first two c.lks of bisons BnB and so long as you properly link the third, then you can hit the lk.sk, but links are the best policy: 1 press per hit unless you're using advanced techniques.

    Try messing about with a metronome till you find the beat of the links if you have trouble with it. That helped me through sagats trials and then its almost the same for bison and balrogs BnBs.

    Hey, thanks for the suggestion. I picked up a metronome app for my Treo and ran that while working on the trial (and I also realized that hard trial 3 was the combo I was working on, so easier than doing it in training mode when you get instant feedback).

    I finally got it, but apparently my biggest problem was not letting the buttons reset fully before trying to hit the next c.lk. Once I focused on "down-up, rest, down-up, rest, down-up" with the metronome with the downs as quarter notes and the ups as sixteenth notes, I got it pretty quickly.

    I need to get some buttons with stronger springs than the stock ones on the SFIV SE stick, though.
  • GlasgowkissGlasgowkiss Joined: Posts: 119
    Cool, if you can think about it in terms that detailed then you'll do fine! You are tempting me to revisit my failed midi tracks for combos idea. Yeah I'm too much of a hack to think in notation . . . :D
  • AuthenticBlazeAuthenticBlaze Joined: Posts: 67




    These videos should be required watching for all new players.

    I am a new player and thank you for those videos:tup: Mainly because I learned what spacing,baiting, and zoning are and mean. Also I learned about hit confirming and a tip to make sure I get this down and not just do a BnB and then get punished for it. Also this vid helped me understand how I should try to mixup my game. I will try some of this stuff in training but definitely will play some online and see what is killing me or what is making me lose. Thanks for the info.
    Victory is the sweetest feeling
  • AuthenticBlazeAuthenticBlaze Joined: Posts: 67
    *snip*
    Scrubby question incoming! What is a metronome?
    Victory is the sweetest feeling
  • AuthenticBlazeAuthenticBlaze Joined: Posts: 67
    Sorry for asking this question and then finding out what it meant. Heres the real question I want to ask. For the metronome how would you use it to help you with a combo in sf4?
    Victory is the sweetest feeling
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    what exactly does "AA" refer to? wouldn't generally ask this question but typing AA into any search engine (forum or otherwise) won't give me the results I want

    if it matters at all I see it a lot in the abel discussion, though I don't think it's an abel exclusive abbreviation
  • toddler316toddler316 Drunk Shit Hustler Joined: Posts: 8,085 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    what exactly does "AA" refer to? wouldn't generally ask this question but typing AA into any search engine (forum or otherwise) won't give me the results I want

    if it matters at all I see it a lot in the abel discussion, though I don't think it's an abel exclusive abbreviation

    Assuming this isnt a troll attempt.
    AA stands for anti air.
    In abels case your prolly seeing it in refrence to c.FP,Falling sky,and C.mk.
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  • GlasgowkissGlasgowkiss Joined: Posts: 119
    Sorry for asking this question and then finding out what it meant. Heres the real question I want to ask. For the metronome how would you use it to help you with a combo in sf4?

    Many characters have combos that require lots of inputs at the same pace. A series of kicks or jabs for instance. You can either use the frame data to calculate the tempo, then set a metronome to that, or, slightly easier, just keep adjusting the metronome till pressing in time with it makes the attacks link.

    http://www.seventhstring.com/metronome/metronome.html
  • AuthenticBlazeAuthenticBlaze Joined: Posts: 67
    Many characters have combos that require lots of inputs at the same pace. A series of kicks or jabs for instance. You can either use the frame data to calculate the tempo, then set a metronome to that, or, slightly easier, just keep adjusting the metronome till pressing in time with it makes the attacks link.

    http://www.seventhstring.com/metronome/metronome.html

    So your saying for example I have one of akumas hardest combos and it has links,cancels,and plinks that this "metronome" will help me learn when I should press the buttons?
    Victory is the sweetest feeling
  • bytexbytex Huge Gaming Penis Joined: Posts: 490
    This "metronome" is an item that helps bands and musicians stay on the beat, it'll just output a series of steady clicks at the exact same intervals for years. So it should be called metronome not "metronome". And since the link combos require a steady input beat, if you match the metronome to the link speed in the game, it'll help you hit the buttons at the right timing all the time.

    There are several free metronome programs for PC's you can find in google. Musicians use clicktracks output to all the headsets at once while recording, or hardware metronomes to keep everyone playing the exact same tempo. It is not related directly to SF4 in any way or form, could just be used as a tool to help with the combo timing.
    Of course combos rely on cancels aswell as links, so you can't listen to the metronome all the time.
  • AuthenticBlazeAuthenticBlaze Joined: Posts: 67
    How do I use it for the game though? Give me an example please! I would love to use this but I have no clue how it would work.
    Victory is the sweetest feeling
  • GlasgowkissGlasgowkiss Joined: Posts: 119
    Sagats hard trial 2 is three c.lks then hard tiger uppercut. The 'beat' for the c.lks is roughly 174 BPM. Take sagat into training mode (or hard trials if you have it), set the dummy to auto-block, then use the metronome here http://www.seventhstring.com/metronome/metronome.html at that speed (click the wooden thing to start it). If you press lk at that speed you should get the three c.lks to link perfectly every time.

    It's not useful for many combos but when you are starting out it can help you learn a few of the tricky ones and help your overall sense of timing.
  • bytexbytex Huge Gaming Penis Joined: Posts: 490
    The "danger" of becoming used to a click track is the same in this game as with musicians.
    You become so used to the steady click sound that you can't play in sync when it's not there (like on a stage).
  • GlasgowkissGlasgowkiss Joined: Posts: 119
    Too much of a bother to set up a metronome for that to be a danger :D but yeah, you should only need to do it for a few nights to get your rhythm tight.
  • AuthenticBlazeAuthenticBlaze Joined: Posts: 67
    Thanks Guys!!! One more question how did you find out the BPM of Sagats 3 cr.lk's? I need to know that so i can get one of bisons trials done.Thanks in advance:tup:
    Victory is the sweetest feeling
  • GlasgowkissGlasgowkiss Joined: Posts: 119
    Either use the frame data and maths which is a bit of a headache or just slowly raise the speed of the metronome until the attacks start to link. Put the training dummy on auto-block, hit him with the attack at a tempo slightly below what you think is right, if attacks subsequent to the first are blocked, raise the speed slightly. You want to hit a sweet spot that isn't LOTS faster because then you'd be 'chaining' the attacks and you cant cancel into specials from chained attacks.
  • AuthenticBlazeAuthenticBlaze Joined: Posts: 67
    I want to do it the frame data way lol. How would I do that? Add all the frames together of the moves?Please explain and thank you.
    Victory is the sweetest feeling
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Thanks Guys!!! One more question how did you find out the BPM of Sagats 3 cr.lk's? I need to know that so i can get one of bisons trials done.Thanks in advance:tup:

    Bison's BPM was a bit slower than what he said for Sagat. I found ~152-160 to be optimal.

    Also, keep in mind that the last c.lk to actuate the scissors needs to be done as fast as possible after the third c.lk.

    Anyway, just work on it one link at a time.

    Charge, c.lk into scissors.

    then 2x c.lk

    then 2x c.lk into scissors (might take you a lot of attempts).

    Then start working the third c.lk in, and after some time you'll get lucky.
  • GlasgowkissGlasgowkiss Joined: Posts: 119
    I don't know exactly and there would be a few irritating things to work out but go here.

    http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2009/feb/17/how-read-frame-data-street-fighter-4/

    I think you'd add up the startup active and recovery frames to tell you the time it takes for a move to execute and recover. Then you're subtract the recovery from the previous move and the startup of the next move from the hitstun of the previous move to work out how many frames you have to hit the next button.

    boxer jab links

    4 (startup) + 2 (active) + 7 (recovery) = 13 frames
    13 (hitstun) - 7 (recovery from previous moves hit frames) - 4 (startup before next moves hit frames) =2 frames to hit the link? That doesn't sound right but fuckit ill carry on to the next bit of maths.

    If we assume leniency of a frame then, thats button presses spaced by 14 frames to link them. There are 60 frames in a second and 60 seconds in a minute so thats 3600 frames per minute. 3600 divided by 14 is 257? Which I don't think is right but you can probably find some fuckup in my working.
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