Kyo Strategies and Match ups

KamuiKamui Joined: Posts: 304
Since most strategies and tricks are matchup-dependent, it makes sense to group the two together. Discuss anything useful in actual matches here, from specific tactics, to character-dependent move counters, to overall gameplans. The more specific you get, the better. It would be greatly appreciated if you took the time to test out everything you plan on saying in training mode to make sure that it works and to provide some numbers for stuff like damage and dizzy amount.

Other than that, try not to piss anyone off or start any flame wars.
Ven - "This is scary...egotistical ol' Kamui and goofy ol' BonusKun VS. the wall of SNK otaku."
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Comments

  • epsilon_epsilon_ helpful Joined: Posts: 3,582
    Does c.mk work?
    i don't care what the critics say, violence is a beauuutiful thing!
  • Legendary GokouLegendary Gokou 210Nem Joined: Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    How does he do against Yama? I hate that match up .... Yama zones me for free. :(
    CFN: 210Nem
    SFV Karin
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Q's about the Vega match-up:

    I know that Kyo needs (Or should) stay in the opponents face to get the most out of his game... But it is very difficult to establish this range against a good Vega player... One thing I am wondering is how to deal with playing at the range of his low strong trying to get in?? I have found that at that range a low jump fierce stuffs most of his anti air options from that range (Low fierce and stand roundhouse) not sure about the slide though... But just relying on just that will only get you so far...

    I guess what I am trying to get at is what do you do to try to get into that range? Any bait tactics to look for or do? What is the attack you should look out for and what attack you should be ready to use? Or maybe what is the general idea you should be thinking about?

    Side Note: I just saw a vid of A-Kyo vs. A-Bison and he blocked a one hit scissor (From a crouch position) and he hit him back with stand strong into combo... I am sure it looked like he was in the recovery of the kicks but then again it is hard to judge on vids... Can anyone confirm this?? I thought they were unpunishable by Kyo or at the very least highly difficult...

    Thanks in advance for any replies
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    More Uses For Kyo's Moves:

    -rdp+k:
    This move is actually really useful defensively. It's off the ground on the first frame, meaning it can't be thrown and will go over low shorts and stuff. If he gets hit out of it on the way up, he was airborne and nothing particularly threatening happens. Use it as a safe(r) way to get out of throw/low short mix ups rather than DPing.

    Another use is after a low jump attack done too high. Let's say you low jump fierce early on Sagat. Sagat blocks and is most likely going to hit you for free when you land with a low short combo. You cancel your low jump recovery into the rdp+k, which again is off the ground on the first frame. It goes over Sagat's low short and kicks him in the head, getting you the knockdown and mix up.

    -fierce rekkas:
    aside from their obvious use in combos or RCs, they also do a grip of chip damage and guard bar in a pinch. The whole string does 400 points of chip damage, well more than enough to chip anybody to death without having to worry about the feared "magic pixel". In fact, you can safely chip somebody to death that has about 2 pixels of life left for free with this.

    The fierce rekkas also does FAR more guard bar damage than a DP, making it so Kyo can guard break somebody whose guard bar isn't even flashing yet, and also from at around his low strong range (as opposed to having to be point blank like with DP guard breaks).

    -qcf+short, short:
    Believe it or not, if the second kick is blocked Kyo is not only safe, but has a fairly hefty frame advantage afterwards. You can use it to get in from more than half-screen away on those pesky players who like to jiggle and wait for whiffs, since they'll walk back and block it standing. However, most characters that are shorter than Sagat can crouch the 2nd hit and put the hurt on Kyo. Seem risky? Yeah, it does to me too. I saw Makoto getting away with it a LOT though. It also seems fairly abusable against Sagat-height characters.

    -standing forward:
    While it might be fairly meh as a regular anti-air, it works surprisingly well as an anti-cross up, covering Kyo's weak area directly above his head very well.

    -low fierce:
    another anti-air that is lackluster but works surprisingly well in a given situation. This move works well on low jumps, cleanly beating even Vega's low jump roundhouse (!). It did trade at times, but I don't think I ever saw it get cleanly beat.
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • YagamiYagami NOT a KOF fanboy Joined: Posts: 235
    Good shit. :D
    www.round1.sg <-- Singapore's premier fighting games website

    http://www.youtube.com/user/atatashai <-- My youtube feat SF4 matches
  • MasatakaMasataka Joined: Posts: 68
    I recently started playing against Yama players, and at first I had a hell of a lotta trouble. I think it's a fairly bad matchup but here are a few things I learned though..

    1) If he has a lvl 2 or 3 super on hand, and he use j.lk or lj.lk, jump back or low jump up after the block. At worst, you'll eat a snake arm, but there's a good chance that his throw super is coming.

    2) Once you get the knockdown, do not let up. If they're going to get out, they're going to use a super, so u can try to bait it out. However, if instead they use s.hp xx sand xx saa to get out, it's gonna be a lotta work to get in again.

    3) Know the range of s.hk, it's probably his easiest move to punish. So far, the best punisher I hav is s.hk xx lvl 3 cloud but if someone knows a better one, please post.

    The whole match will be a lot of baiting and punishing big whiffs. I try to bait a s.hk and super jump in for the cross up if possible, but it's hard. I generally jump a lot the match too, since it's not too hard to jd his snake arms (hear saaa tap back in air). If anybody has any more advice, I'd like them :)
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by Masataka
    Yamazaki
    Yeah, a good basic strategy is to stay as close as possible and make him screw up somehow. It can be really hard to get in, but I'm even more afraid when he comes looking for me! It's sooo easy to hit with his supers, definitely a scary opponent.

    Kyo, however, can cleanly stuff both his supers if he tries to wake up with them. If you bait out a wake up level 3, just do a level 3 wave super to stuff it. If he Guillotines, he'll jump right into the fire, and if he Drills, well you can't be grabbed out of a level 3 so he gets burned in that case too.
  • MasatakaMasataka Joined: Posts: 68
    I don't think it's safe to try to punish a wakeup level 3 w/ a level 3 cloud super, unless your opponent is SUPER predictable. If you made a mistake, and they didn't do it, it's a free combo into super for them.

    Question about Sagat. My general strategy is to run in and mix him up to death but a few problems I run into. First, his high tiger shot usually stops me dead in my tracks cuz it's hard to low jump over since I'm usually running. If I jab into just defend or duck, i'm not getting any closer. If I jump or super jump, i'm eating a tiger uppercut. When I finally almost get to attacking distance, c.hp comes out and makes it hard for me to attack to. I can guess a lot what attacks are coming out but sometimes I get outwitted and eat tiger uppercut and way too many c.hp's. Any tips on getting in/counters for his c.hp?
  • Mickey D'Mickey D' I feel for ya Mummy-B Joined: Posts: 1,828
    Kyo vs Blanka

    I find that fighting Blanka can be extremely difficult. I find it very hard to get in on Blanka mainly because of his reach. It's very hard for my Kyo to create situations where I can capitalize. Whenever Kyo tries to get in on Blanka, Blanka rebuttles with a nasty c.hp :mad:

    You guys got any tips for me cuz I'm stuck when it comes to a nicely played Blanka.

    Random things I have figured out:

    - After a blocked blanka ball, do: qcf mp, qcf mp, k. This is (from what I've experimented on) the only way that Kyo can hurt Blanka over a blocked blanka ball.

    - Kyo's down forward+kick doesn't seems quite reliable on getting in on Blanka when he's just sitting their for time to run out.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    kcxj/kamui, can either of you give some data on far/close s.HP? i've been trying it out as anti-air from far instead of s.MK. it seems to hit really meaty.
  • eightysixeightysix Team Nanpa Seiken Joined: Posts: 313
    Vs. Guile

    Here's some random crap I found out the other day. After a JD'ed Sonic Boom, try putting out a c.MK. It'll either totally stuff Guile's s.HK or trade with his c.MK. I've gotten Kyo's c.MK to stuff Guile's c.MK a few times, but it has to be really fast.
    お前はもう死んでいる。
    You're already dead.
  • eightysixeightysix Team Nanpa Seiken Joined: Posts: 313
    Mickey D' wrote:
    Kyo vs Blanka

    I find that fighting Blanka can be extremely difficult. I find it very hard to get in on Blanka mainly because of his reach. It's very hard for my Kyo to create situations where I can capitalize. Whenever Kyo tries to get in on Blanka, Blanka rebuttles with a nasty c.hp :mad:

    Play footsies with him and stay JUST outside the range of his c.HP. Once you see it stick out, counter it with Kyo's s.HK. Watch out for his slide though. Low-jump HP/HK snuff out any attempt of Blanka hitting you with his c.HP because of its start up.
    お前はもう死んでいる。
    You're already dead.
  • R | CR | C Hunter Rank 999 Joined: Posts: 1,495
    I've read several threads that talk about p-kyo being a mid/top tier character, but I haven't figured out what makes him so good in p-groove? I know he has a bunch of offensive attacks that get people dizzy, and a lot of mind games set up...but still...

    Anyone?
  • epsilon_epsilon_ helpful Joined: Posts: 3,582
    The main reason Kyo is good in P is because he has really damaging normal combos, and add that to that fact that each combo can send you to the corner to be pressured, he becomes pretty scary with parry. Also he has lowjump, and you're almost forced to just bock his c.shorts once the p player starts option select down parrying them.
    i don't care what the critics say, violence is a beauuutiful thing!
  • R | CR | C Hunter Rank 999 Joined: Posts: 1,495
    epsilon_ wrote:
    The main reason Kyo is good in P is because he has really damaging normal combos, and add that to that fact that each combo can send you to the corner to be pressured, he becomes pretty scary with parry. Also he has lowjump, and you're almost forced to just bock his c.shorts once the p player starts option select down parrying them.

    do you have any specific examples of why kyo is so good in p? 'cause his "really damaging normal combos" and lowjump is also available in other grooves. and about option selecting...what specifically makes HIM so good, 'cause anyone in p has it. other characters in p have damaging combos after parrying like iori's rekkas, or ken's face kick, or yamazaki's chian attacks, but that doesn't make them mid/top tier.
  • epsilon_epsilon_ helpful Joined: Posts: 3,582
    Iori needs rc, and Yama is better in other grooves Ioris Rekka combos barely do like any stun, and Yama's BNB doesn't knock down, AND is punsihable by fast supers. I just told you, for Kyo Parries lead into HUGE damage (parry, c.mp, mk juggle kicks, dp HK) youre in the corner now, and lost 1/4 life, and you're about 1/2 stunned, Yamazaki and Iori can't do that. And yeah kyo has low jump in other grooves, but he doesnt need the other things that come with them (he doesnt need like anything in N groove but Low jump, s-kyo sucks(and don't tell me omg he doesn't because he does))K and P just really suit Kyo.
    i don't care what the critics say, violence is a beauuutiful thing!
  • R | CR | C Hunter Rank 999 Joined: Posts: 1,495
    ookayy...
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    kyo's best grooves are definitely P/K,A,C,N/S

    because:

    a) all his combos start with either light attacks (bnb, linked into MP xx rekkas) or an up close attack (big punish, linked into launching kicks), neither are practical to finish with a level 1 super (qcf,qcf+P has shitty range, less damage than a launching kicks juggle, and lvl1 qcb,hcf+P won't combo off any of his starters).

    b) launching kicks -> flame super from anywhere on the screen does more damage than any combo into qcf,qcf+P (no matter what level), and at midscreen, kyo has huge damage combos off of launching kicks (launching kicks -> dp+MK -> flame super -> otg hit)

    so.. level 1 supers are useless for kyo, his alpha counter is unsafe, his roll is too shitty to punish anything. P/K is definitely his best, he's good with dash OR run, low jump is butter for him, and A and C grooves are just worth mention for their huge damage potential.

    but i'm just a scrub, don't listen to me.

    edit: oops for asking again on s.HP.. that seems good anyway, it seems to work like bison's AA s.HP

    i would guess now that c.HP is 4 frames, it seems as easy to link as a MP after c.LK/c.LP/c.MP.. how's c.LK, c.LP, c.HP xx MP/HP rekkas sound for practicality, c.HP has more range than c.MP but less than far s.MP from my testing
  • HellionHellion .5 Beat Combat Joined: Posts: 888
    I have trouble dealing with Zangief.
    Playing A-Kyo against RC C-Zangief.
    The guy's played against my Kyo long enough to know what his mixups are, and almost all of them can be punished by the SPD in my experience. I'm almost always forced to play footsies against Gief, unless I land a good d.LK leading to a custom
    "No one quits SRK. NO ONE" -wepeel
    P-Kyo(2), Guile, Cammy
    ST-Guile
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    don't try anything on wakeup if he knows your mixups, he can RC lariat/SPD through any thing you try. i would try whiffing a c.MP over him and then backdashing so he tries an RC, then punish with far s.MP xx rekkas/LK launch kicks. gief can also catch you out of activation with either super so chill at a good distance, i would stay inside his fierce range and zone with c.MP, far s.LK, far s.HK, and df+HK. try on baiting all his RCs on the ground, as none of them are safe if whiffed.

    edit: gief's huge hitbox gives kyo even more damage on his rekka combos:
    c.LK, c.LP, c.LK, far s.MP xx rekkas
    c.LK, c.MP, far s.MP xx rekkas
    c.MP, c.HP xx rekkas

    his s.HP and s.MK also land on gief, s.MK seems to have a little invincibility on his foot.

    GC strings:
    c.LK, c.LP, c.LK, c.MP, df+HK/c.MK
    c.LK, c.MP, c.MP, df+HK/c.MK
    c.LK, c.LP, c.HP xx qcf+HP,hcb+P -> mixup

    gief should get GCed fast, kyo owns him on the ground if he can't psychic lariat you 100% of the time

    if he whiffs (or you block the first hit of kick version) either lariat, combo him starting with c.LK (c.MP will miss against punch lariat RCed or not, but mashed c.LKs will punish either version)
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    go under with df+HK, otherwise i dunno.. it outranges far s.HK

    low jumping straight up and d+HP could hit his limb, i know that kick stays out for forever
  • eightysixeightysix Team Nanpa Seiken Joined: Posts: 313
    So, who here actually lands the counter-hit walk up c.LKs? Most of the time, I just getted smacked back for even walking forward. Then I hit myself on the head for not empty small-jumping instead. Any tips on how to get it to work?
    お前はもう死んでいる。
    You're already dead.
  • epsilon_epsilon_ helpful Joined: Posts: 3,582
    Do them after a knockdown. Like sweep, meaty c.short, walk up c.short x2(counter hit), s.mp xx rekkas.
    i don't care what the critics say, violence is a beauuutiful thing!
  • eightysixeightysix Team Nanpa Seiken Joined: Posts: 313
    epsilon_ wrote:
    Do them after a knockdown. Like sweep, meaty c.short, walk up c.short x2(counter hit), s.mp xx rekkas.

    Well obviously you do it after a knockdown. It's weird because I just keep getting jabbed at anyways when I have like +6 after the meaty c.LK. Eh, my timing is probably just off. Oh, and is it possible for the meaty c.LK to beat out DP wakeups if timed right?
    お前はもう死んでいる。
    You're already dead.
  • epsilon_epsilon_ helpful Joined: Posts: 3,582
    No, this isn't 3s haha. Fully invince dps ALWAYS beat meaties. Btw you have even more than +6 off the short, because it's meaty. Idk how many hit frames the short has though, but even if you messup you should usually have +7 at least. Just work on your timing, and if they mash, start using meaty c.mp/s.mp on em. After 1 or two c.mp xx juggle kicks, dp hk or c.mp x2 xx rekkas, they'll probably stop mashing.
    i don't care what the critics say, violence is a beauuutiful thing!
  • eightysixeightysix Team Nanpa Seiken Joined: Posts: 313
    epsilon_ wrote:
    No, this isn't 3s haha. Fully invince dps ALWAYS beat meaties.

    Hahaha, I thought so. I could have sworn I've seen Makoto counter-hit a DP before. Oh well, the other guy probably tried to jab him or something on wake-up.
    Btw you have even more than +6 off the short, because it's meaty. Idk how many hit frames the short has though, but even if you messup you should usually have +7 at least. Just work on your timing, and if they mash, start using meaty c.mp/s.mp on em. After 1 or two c.mp xx juggle kicks, dp hk or c.mp x2 xx rekkas, they'll probably stop mashing.

    I've been thrown out of a meaty c.LK before by people I play. Then I start thinking to myself, "Wtf, this ain't ST!" :rofl:

    Exactly the info I'm looking for. I keep forgetting about the meaty s.MP mixup since Kyo has too many in his arsenal as it is. Good to know there are still some reliable people who give out good info on SRK. :tup:
    お前はもう死んでいる。
    You're already dead.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    meaty tip of c.MP is better for real, link far s.HK (counterhit) or rekkas (any hit, or HP rekkas for GC)
  • eightysixeightysix Team Nanpa Seiken Joined: Posts: 313
    ragnafrak wrote:
    meaty tip of c.MP is better for real, link far s.HK (counterhit) or rekkas (any hit, or HP rekkas for GC)

    I've linked a sweep on a counter-hit c.MP before. I got a wtf look from the other guy. :rofl:

    Honestly though, I'd say s.MP is better because it's much more meaty and you can tag ANOTHER c.MP after it into rekkas.
    お前はもう死んでいる。
    You're already dead.
  • epsilon_epsilon_ helpful Joined: Posts: 3,582
    Yeah, also when you start training them to start blocking c.shorts, the fun REALLY begins. They wake up you throw. Whiff c.short, throw. Tick meaty c.short, throw. c.short wait, c.short, c.mp xx rekkas.
    i don't care what the critics say, violence is a beauuutiful thing!
  • eightysixeightysix Team Nanpa Seiken Joined: Posts: 313
    Vs. Sakura

    Uh, found this out totally by accident (which is like 90% of how I figure shit out), but against Sak's whiffed s.HK, Kyo can s.LP it back a lot how you can jab Blanka after a whiffed c.HP.

    I know some of you are going to complain because it doesn't do enough damage, but is that what really matters here? Just let the Sak player know that whoring s.HK won't work all the time. And if they try and get smart by trying to walk into range, press your s.HK with Kyo as quick as you can and you'll hit her for free. Reset, avoid random RCs, get knockdowns and don't get hit by shosho. GGPO.

    I <3 theory fighter. :encore: :rofl:
    お前はもう死んでいる。
    You're already dead.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    df+HK Pressure, Mixup and Guard Crush Strings

    First, the frame data.

    :df::hk:
    400+800 damage
    +0/+0
    11/[4]/8/[4]/20
    First hit must be blocked low
    Second hit can be blocked high

    This move is awesome for a lot of reasons. Here's my strategy list and setups for it.

    When you land the move, hit or blocked (doesn't matter since the frame advantage is the same, zero), it's not a bad idea to pull the move again immediately. They'll be forced to take it or block it again, giving you the same situation as before. Perform the move again or go for mixups.

    The startup is 11 frames. The startup seems like a lot, but since the move is completely safe if it hits because of the zero frame advantage, the only way you can be screwed by using it is if they hit you out of it before it comes. If you mix up when you use the move, this is almost impossible.

    If you step back a bit before you do the move, the first hit will whiff and the second hit will land. This gives your opponent 23 frames to react to the movement, which is enough to pull off a anticipitory shoruyken or other quick invincible move on confirmation of movement. However, the first motion of the move looks a hell of a lot like Kyo's :d::mk:.

    :d::mk:
    900 damage
    -5/-5
    7/[9]/16

    After taking the step back, do the :d::mk: instead. If they attempt to hit you out of the second hit, they'll whiff and you'll have an chance at a free combo. If they sit there blocking, it's a message for them not to try anything as you slide in.

    If they try to jump over the :df::hk: as you start it, you will find the arc of their jump and the travel of your move will put you in the pefect position to :bdp::hp: them as they float over you to the other side. You will be under most crossups, and since the dp move has lots of invincibilty, it'll cut through all that crossup priority, too. This doesn't work as well with tall-jumping characters, but more with the shoto-type jumpers.

    If you want to keep them on the ground for sure, pull out the old far standing roundhouse, :hk:. 7 frame startup means they're not going to jump, and if they do, you'll hit them. Also try the :d::mk: at close range (also 7 frame startup) to give them double worries about not holding down and back. (Jump start up on the PNK grooves is 6 frames, to account for small jump.)

    This move makes it really easy to incorporate into your guard crush strings. After a rekka chain, if you can put in some crouching shorts, then link it into the kick slide, it's free GC damage. Continue with the mixups and you'll easily cut half their gauge. Activate in N-Groove for even more damage.

    It's one of Kyo's best abuseable moves. Take care not to over-abuse it, of course. Incorporate it into your game as with any other move.
  • Legendary GokouLegendary Gokou 210Nem Joined: Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    eightysix wrote:
    Vs. Sakura

    Uh, found this out totally by accident (which is like 90% of how I figure shit out), but against Sak's whiffed s.HK, Kyo can s.LP it back a lot how you can jab Blanka after a whiffed c.HP.

    I know some of you are going to complain because it doesn't do enough damage, but is that what really matters here? Just let the Sak player know that whoring s.HK won't work all the time. And if they try and get smart by trying to walk into range, press your s.HK with Kyo as quick as you can and you'll hit her for free. Reset, avoid random RCs, get knockdowns and don't get hit by shosho. GGPO.

    I <3 theory fighter. :encore: :rofl:

    Kyo can hit Sakura with his sweep. His reaches out farther than Sakura's st rh by a few pixels. If I see Sakura throwing it out carelessly, I start throwing out sweeps in retaliation (if I'm not in close).
    CFN: 210Nem
    SFV Karin
  • Mickey D'Mickey D' I feel for ya Mummy-B Joined: Posts: 1,828
    So I was at a tournament the other day, and this guy kept on doing:

    c.lk, c.mp, qcf lp x2....(stop) I try and hit him, he counter hits me with c.lk into combo.

    So whats the deal? I tried to punish him. Is there an advantage after the 2nd rekka? I tried to throw him, tried to c.lk/c.lp him after he stopped but it just didn't work!

    Can someone break the frames down for me?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Mickey D' wrote:
    So I was at a tournament the other day, and this guy kept on doing:

    c.lk, c.mp, qcf lp x2....(stop) I try and hit him, he counter hits me with c.lk into combo.

    So whats the deal? I tried to punish him. Is there an advantage after the 2nd rekka? I tried to throw him, tried to c.lk/c.lp him after he stopped but it just didn't work!

    Can someone break the frames down for me?

    If you blocked the (first and) second rekka, he's at a -11 (dis)advantage, so you should be safe to sweep at the very least.

    If he hit you, on the other hand, he's at -2, which leads to favorable mixup opportunities for him. The only thing you can do in this situation is to block or pray for a perfect timing 2-frame startup close standing jab to trade (if you're close enough), which is not worth the risk.


    An attack chain I love to do with Kyo is if the rekka combo hits, I stop after the second and start it again with the c.lk, c.mp rekka chain again. If they try anything to punish it, they'll eat the chain again. I stop this second chain at the second hit again, which causes the other guy to freeze, which leads to a free kick throw and wakeup mixup.

    The nice thing about this is that any time after the first time you try it, they're likely to turtle up as the second hit connects. Instead of finishing off the successful combo with the kick or a risky overhead, just stop and throw them first thing. At worst, they'll tech out of it (or you'll tech out of their throw, if you're trying overheads, which can be thrown out of).
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,199 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    WindyMan wrote:
    If you blocked the (first and) second rekka, he's at a -11 (dis)advantage, so you should be safe to sweep at the very least.

    If he hit you, on the other hand, he's at -2, which leads to favorable mixup opportunities for him. The only thing you can do in this situation is to block or pray for a perfect timing 2-frame startup close standing jab to trade (if you're close enough), which is not worth the risk.


    An attack chain I love to do with Kyo is if the rekka combo hits, I stop after the second and start it again with the c.lk, c.mp rekka chain again. If they try anything to punish it, they'll eat the chain again. I stop this second chain at the second hit again, which causes the other guy to freeze, which leads to a free kick throw and wakeup mixup.

    The nice thing about this is that any time after the first time you try it, they're likely to turtle up as the second hit connects. Instead of finishing off the successful combo with the kick or a risky overhead, just stop and throw them first thing. At worst, they'll tech out of it (or you'll tech out of their throw, if you're trying overheads, which can be thrown out of).

    Check the frame data again. Jab rekka's first hit is at -5, mp first hit is -10, fp version is -11. Second hit for lp and mp is -2 hit, -11 blocked, fp version is +1 hit, -8 blocked. The first hit of the jab rekka is as safe as Iori's, so that is the one you should use if your opponent is blocking. I can only RC the mp/hp rekkas though, If I try to RC the lp version, I get the double kicks. If your rekkakens are hitting, I don't see why you wouldn't finish the combo, it sets up an ambiguous roll cross-up and you get the knock down. The only time you should be doing that is if you go for the counter hit rekka if you first one gets blocked.
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,199 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    eightysix wrote:
    I've linked a sweep on a counter-hit c.MP before. I got a wtf look from the other guy. :rofl:

    Honestly though, I'd say s.MP is better because it's much more meaty and you can tag ANOTHER c.MP after it into rekkas.

    s.mp is overrated. You can get as much frame advantage as s.mp off off c.mp. Difference is, if you mess up the meaty you are at +6 always. If you mess up the meaty with s.mp, you are at +/- 0. Regular c.mp lets you link a c.mp.
  • epsilon_epsilon_ helpful Joined: Posts: 3,582
    crouching medium punch can be parried high or low, as opposed to standing medium punch which must be parried high.
    i don't care what the critics say, violence is a beauuutiful thing!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Check the frame data again. Jab rekka's first hit is at -5, mp first hit is -10, fp version is -11. Second hit for lp and mp is -2 hit, -11 blocked, fp version is +1 hit, -8 blocked.

    Well, he did say qcf+mp x2, meaning he was talking about the second hit in the rekka chain, for which my numbers are right.

    In either case, you are about 90% safe with the first hit of the LP rekka. The further away you are when you connect, the safer you are. People with stupid fast sweeps can tag you out of it, but generally you're good to abuse it.

    epsilon_ wrote:
    crouching medium punch can be parried high or low, as opposed to standing medium punch which must be parried high.

    Standing strong also does 100 more damage and reaches farther. It's just to thing to punish Bison Scissor Kicks.
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,199 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    WindyMan wrote:
    Well, he did say qcf+mp x2, meaning he was talking about the second hit in the rekka chain, for which my numbers are right.

    In either case, you are about 90% safe with the first hit of the LP rekka. The further away you are when you connect, the safer you are. People with stupid fast sweeps can tag you out of it, but generally you're good to abuse it.




    Standing strong also does 100 more damage and reaches farther. It's just to thing to punish Bison Scissor Kicks.

    My bad, I thought you were also refering to the first and second hit of the rekkas in general, thats how it sounded. I was just saying -11 for the first hit was incorrect, but you didn't mean it for that. Not only is s.mp longer, it's just as fast being 4 frames. But I swear I blocked a 2-hit knee press and I was out of range to use it, I got CC'd and died, lol. Sometimes you are so far away after a blocked rekka, the opponent can't do anything except lvl3. See how far away you are if Sagat blocks c.mp, c.lk, s.mp xx qcf+mp.
  • Legendary GokouLegendary Gokou 210Nem Joined: Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    This is kind of a random post, but .....


    Look for counter hit cr mp. If its counter hit, you can easily link st rh xx level 2 or 3 cloud super. Really good damage, especially with C groove.
    CFN: 210Nem
    SFV Karin
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