Kyo Strategies and Match ups

KamuiKamui Joined: Posts: 304
Since most strategies and tricks are matchup-dependent, it makes sense to group the two together. Discuss anything useful in actual matches here, from specific tactics, to character-dependent move counters, to overall gameplans. The more specific you get, the better. It would be greatly appreciated if you took the time to test out everything you plan on saying in training mode to make sure that it works and to provide some numbers for stuff like damage and dizzy amount.

Other than that, try not to piss anyone off or start any flame wars.
Ven - "This is scary...egotistical ol' Kamui and goofy ol' BonusKun VS. the wall of SNK otaku."
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Comments

  • epsilon_epsilon_ helpful Joined: Posts: 3,582
    Does c.mk work?
    i don't care what the critics say, violence is a beauuutiful thing!
  • Legendary GokouLegendary Gokou 210Nem Joined: Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    How does he do against Yama? I hate that match up .... Yama zones me for free. :(
    CFN: 210Nem
    SFV Karin
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    Q's about the Vega match-up:

    I know that Kyo needs (Or should) stay in the opponents face to get the most out of his game... But it is very difficult to establish this range against a good Vega player... One thing I am wondering is how to deal with playing at the range of his low strong trying to get in?? I have found that at that range a low jump fierce stuffs most of his anti air options from that range (Low fierce and stand roundhouse) not sure about the slide though... But just relying on just that will only get you so far...

    I guess what I am trying to get at is what do you do to try to get into that range? Any bait tactics to look for or do? What is the attack you should look out for and what attack you should be ready to use? Or maybe what is the general idea you should be thinking about?

    Side Note: I just saw a vid of A-Kyo vs. A-Bison and he blocked a one hit scissor (From a crouch position) and he hit him back with stand strong into combo... I am sure it looked like he was in the recovery of the kicks but then again it is hard to judge on vids... Can anyone confirm this?? I thought they were unpunishable by Kyo or at the very least highly difficult...

    Thanks in advance for any replies
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    More Uses For Kyo's Moves:

    -rdp+k:
    This move is actually really useful defensively. It's off the ground on the first frame, meaning it can't be thrown and will go over low shorts and stuff. If he gets hit out of it on the way up, he was airborne and nothing particularly threatening happens. Use it as a safe(r) way to get out of throw/low short mix ups rather than DPing.

    Another use is after a low jump attack done too high. Let's say you low jump fierce early on Sagat. Sagat blocks and is most likely going to hit you for free when you land with a low short combo. You cancel your low jump recovery into the rdp+k, which again is off the ground on the first frame. It goes over Sagat's low short and kicks him in the head, getting you the knockdown and mix up.

    -fierce rekkas:
    aside from their obvious use in combos or RCs, they also do a grip of chip damage and guard bar in a pinch. The whole string does 400 points of chip damage, well more than enough to chip anybody to death without having to worry about the feared "magic pixel". In fact, you can safely chip somebody to death that has about 2 pixels of life left for free with this.

    The fierce rekkas also does FAR more guard bar damage than a DP, making it so Kyo can guard break somebody whose guard bar isn't even flashing yet, and also from at around his low strong range (as opposed to having to be point blank like with DP guard breaks).

    -qcf+short, short:
    Believe it or not, if the second kick is blocked Kyo is not only safe, but has a fairly hefty frame advantage afterwards. You can use it to get in from more than half-screen away on those pesky players who like to jiggle and wait for whiffs, since they'll walk back and block it standing. However, most characters that are shorter than Sagat can crouch the 2nd hit and put the hurt on Kyo. Seem risky? Yeah, it does to me too. I saw Makoto getting away with it a LOT though. It also seems fairly abusable against Sagat-height characters.

    -standing forward:
    While it might be fairly meh as a regular anti-air, it works surprisingly well as an anti-cross up, covering Kyo's weak area directly above his head very well.

    -low fierce:
    another anti-air that is lackluster but works surprisingly well in a given situation. This move works well on low jumps, cleanly beating even Vega's low jump roundhouse (!). It did trade at times, but I don't think I ever saw it get cleanly beat.
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • YagamiYagami NOT a KOF fanboy Joined: Posts: 235
    Good shit. :D
    www.round1.sg <-- Singapore's premier fighting games website

    http://www.youtube.com/user/atatashai <-- My youtube feat SF4 matches
  • MasatakaMasataka Joined: Posts: 68
    I recently started playing against Yama players, and at first I had a hell of a lotta trouble. I think it's a fairly bad matchup but here are a few things I learned though..

    1) If he has a lvl 2 or 3 super on hand, and he use j.lk or lj.lk, jump back or low jump up after the block. At worst, you'll eat a snake arm, but there's a good chance that his throw super is coming.

    2) Once you get the knockdown, do not let up. If they're going to get out, they're going to use a super, so u can try to bait it out. However, if instead they use s.hp xx sand xx saa to get out, it's gonna be a lotta work to get in again.

    3) Know the range of s.hk, it's probably his easiest move to punish. So far, the best punisher I hav is s.hk xx lvl 3 cloud but if someone knows a better one, please post.

    The whole match will be a lot of baiting and punishing big whiffs. I try to bait a s.hk and super jump in for the cross up if possible, but it's hard. I generally jump a lot the match too, since it's not too hard to jd his snake arms (hear saaa tap back in air). If anybody has any more advice, I'd like them :)
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    Originally posted by Masataka
    Yamazaki
    Yeah, a good basic strategy is to stay as close as possible and make him screw up somehow. It can be really hard to get in, but I'm even more afraid when he comes looking for me! It's sooo easy to hit with his supers, definitely a scary opponent.

    Kyo, however, can cleanly stuff both his supers if he tries to wake up with them. If you bait out a wake up level 3, just do a level 3 wave super to stuff it. If he Guillotines, he'll jump right into the fire, and if he Drills, well you can't be grabbed out of a level 3 so he gets burned in that case too.
  • MasatakaMasataka Joined: Posts: 68
    I don't think it's safe to try to punish a wakeup level 3 w/ a level 3 cloud super, unless your opponent is SUPER predictable. If you made a mistake, and they didn't do it, it's a free combo into super for them.

    Question about Sagat. My general strategy is to run in and mix him up to death but a few problems I run into. First, his high tiger shot usually stops me dead in my tracks cuz it's hard to low jump over since I'm usually running. If I jab into just defend or duck, i'm not getting any closer. If I jump or super jump, i'm eating a tiger uppercut. When I finally almost get to attacking distance, c.hp comes out and makes it hard for me to attack to. I can guess a lot what attacks are coming out but sometimes I get outwitted and eat tiger uppercut and way too many c.hp's. Any tips on getting in/counters for his c.hp?
  • Mickey D'Mickey D' I feel for ya Mummy-B Joined: Posts: 1,828
    Kyo vs Blanka

    I find that fighting Blanka can be extremely difficult. I find it very hard to get in on Blanka mainly because of his reach. It's very hard for my Kyo to create situations where I can capitalize. Whenever Kyo tries to get in on Blanka, Blanka rebuttles with a nasty c.hp :mad:

    You guys got any tips for me cuz I'm stuck when it comes to a nicely played Blanka.

    Random things I have figured out:

    - After a blocked blanka ball, do: qcf mp, qcf mp, k. This is (from what I've experimented on) the only way that Kyo can hurt Blanka over a blocked blanka ball.

    - Kyo's down forward+kick doesn't seems quite reliable on getting in on Blanka when he's just sitting their for time to run out.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    kcxj/kamui, can either of you give some data on far/close s.HP? i've been trying it out as anti-air from far instead of s.MK. it seems to hit really meaty.
  • eightysixeightysix Team Nanpa Seiken Joined: Posts: 313
    Vs. Guile

    Here's some random crap I found out the other day. After a JD'ed Sonic Boom, try putting out a c.MK. It'll either totally stuff Guile's s.HK or trade with his c.MK. I've gotten Kyo's c.MK to stuff Guile's c.MK a few times, but it has to be really fast.
    お前はもう死んでいる。
    You're already dead.
  • eightysixeightysix Team Nanpa Seiken Joined: Posts: 313
    Mickey D' wrote:
    Kyo vs Blanka

    I find that fighting Blanka can be extremely difficult. I find it very hard to get in on Blanka mainly because of his reach. It's very hard for my Kyo to create situations where I can capitalize. Whenever Kyo tries to get in on Blanka, Blanka rebuttles with a nasty c.hp :mad:

    Play footsies with him and stay JUST outside the range of his c.HP. Once you see it stick out, counter it with Kyo's s.HK. Watch out for his slide though. Low-jump HP/HK snuff out any attempt of Blanka hitting you with his c.HP because of its start up.
    お前はもう死んでいる。
    You're already dead.
  • R | CR | C Hunter Rank 999 Joined: Posts: 1,495
    I've read several threads that talk about p-kyo being a mid/top tier character, but I haven't figured out what makes him so good in p-groove? I know he has a bunch of offensive attacks that get people dizzy, and a lot of mind games set up...but still...

    Anyone?
  • epsilon_epsilon_ helpful Joined: Posts: 3,582
    The main reason Kyo is good in P is because he has really damaging normal combos, and add that to that fact that each combo can send you to the corner to be pressured, he becomes pretty scary with parry. Also he has lowjump, and you're almost forced to just bock his c.shorts once the p player starts option select down parrying them.
    i don't care what the critics say, violence is a beauuutiful thing!
  • R | CR | C Hunter Rank 999 Joined: Posts: 1,495
    epsilon_ wrote:
    The main reason Kyo is good in P is because he has really damaging normal combos, and add that to that fact that each combo can send you to the corner to be pressured, he becomes pretty scary with parry. Also he has lowjump, and you're almost forced to just bock his c.shorts once the p player starts option select down parrying them.

    do you have any specific examples of why kyo is so good in p? 'cause his "really damaging normal combos" and lowjump is also available in other grooves. and about option selecting...what specifically makes HIM so good, 'cause anyone in p has it. other characters in p have damaging combos after parrying like iori's rekkas, or ken's face kick, or yamazaki's chian attacks, but that doesn't make them mid/top tier.
  • epsilon_epsilon_ helpful Joined: Posts: 3,582
    Iori needs rc, and Yama is better in other grooves Ioris Rekka combos barely do like any stun, and Yama's BNB doesn't knock down, AND is punsihable by fast supers. I just told you, for Kyo Parries lead into HUGE damage (parry, c.mp, mk juggle kicks, dp HK) youre in the corner now, and lost 1/4 life, and you're about 1/2 stunned, Yamazaki and Iori can't do that. And yeah kyo has low jump in other grooves, but he doesnt need the other things that come with them (he doesnt need like anything in N groove but Low jump, s-kyo sucks(and don't tell me omg he doesn't because he does))K and P just really suit Kyo.
    i don't care what the critics say, violence is a beauuutiful thing!
  • R | CR | C Hunter Rank 999 Joined: Posts: 1,495
    ookayy...
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    kyo's best grooves are definitely P/K,A,C,N/S

    because:

    a) all his combos start with either light attacks (bnb, linked into MP xx rekkas) or an up close attack (big punish, linked into launching kicks), neither are practical to finish with a level 1 super (qcf,qcf+P has shitty range, less damage than a launching kicks juggle, and lvl1 qcb,hcf+P won't combo off any of his starters).

    b) launching kicks -> flame super from anywhere on the screen does more damage than any combo into qcf,qcf+P (no matter what level), and at midscreen, kyo has huge damage combos off of launching kicks (launching kicks -> dp+MK -> flame super -> otg hit)

    so.. level 1 supers are useless for kyo, his alpha counter is unsafe, his roll is too shitty to punish anything. P/K is definitely his best, he's good with dash OR run, low jump is butter for him, and A and C grooves are just worth mention for their huge damage potential.

    but i'm just a scrub, don't listen to me.

    edit: oops for asking again on s.HP.. that seems good anyway, it seems to work like bison's AA s.HP

    i would guess now that c.HP is 4 frames, it seems as easy to link as a MP after c.LK/c.LP/c.MP.. how's c.LK, c.LP, c.HP xx MP/HP rekkas sound for practicality, c.HP has more range than c.MP but less than far s.MP from my testing
  • HellionHellion .5 Beat Combat Joined: Posts: 888
    I have trouble dealing with Zangief.
    Playing A-Kyo against RC C-Zangief.
    The guy's played against my Kyo long enough to know what his mixups are, and almost all of them can be punished by the SPD in my experience. I'm almost always forced to play footsies against Gief, unless I land a good d.LK leading to a custom
    "No one quits SRK. NO ONE" -wepeel
    P-Kyo(2), Guile, Cammy
    ST-Guile
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    don't try anything on wakeup if he knows your mixups, he can RC lariat/SPD through any thing you try. i would try whiffing a c.MP over him and then backdashing so he tries an RC, then punish with far s.MP xx rekkas/LK launch kicks. gief can also catch you out of activation with either super so chill at a good distance, i would stay inside his fierce range and zone with c.MP, far s.LK, far s.HK, and df+HK. try on baiting all his RCs on the ground, as none of them are safe if whiffed.

    edit: gief's huge hitbox gives kyo even more damage on his rekka combos:
    c.LK, c.LP, c.LK, far s.MP xx rekkas
    c.LK, c.MP, far s.MP xx rekkas
    c.MP, c.HP xx rekkas

    his s.HP and s.MK also land on gief, s.MK seems to have a little invincibility on his foot.

    GC strings:
    c.LK, c.LP, c.LK, c.MP, df+HK/c.MK
    c.LK, c.MP, c.MP, df+HK/c.MK
    c.LK, c.LP, c.HP xx qcf+HP,hcb+P -> mixup

    gief should get GCed fast, kyo owns him on the ground if he can't psychic lariat you 100% of the time

    if he whiffs (or you block the first hit of kick version) either lariat, combo him starting with c.LK (c.MP will miss against punch lariat RCed or not, but mashed c.LKs will punish either version)
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    go under with df+HK, otherwise i dunno.. it outranges far s.HK

    low jumping straight up and d+HP could hit his limb, i know that kick stays out for forever
  • eightysixeightysix Team Nanpa Seiken Joined: Posts: 313
    So, who here actually lands the counter-hit walk up c.LKs? Most of the time, I just getted smacked back for even walking forward. Then I hit myself on the head for not empty small-jumping instead. Any tips on how to get it to work?
    お前はもう死んでいる。
    You're already dead.
  • epsilon_epsilon_ helpful Joined: Posts: 3,582
    Do them after a knockdown. Like sweep, meaty c.short, walk up c.short x2(counter hit), s.mp xx rekkas.
    i don't care what the critics say, violence is a beauuutiful thing!
  • eightysixeightysix Team Nanpa Seiken Joined: Posts: 313
    epsilon_ wrote:
    Do them after a knockdown. Like sweep, meaty c.short, walk up c.short x2(counter hit), s.mp xx rekkas.

    Well obviously you do it after a knockdown. It's weird because I just keep getting jabbed at anyways when I have like +6 after the meaty c.LK. Eh, my timing is probably just off. Oh, and is it possible for the meaty c.LK to beat out DP wakeups if timed right?
    お前はもう死んでいる。
    You're already dead.
  • epsilon_epsilon_ helpful Joined: Posts: 3,582
    No, this isn't 3s haha. Fully invince dps ALWAYS beat meaties. Btw you have even more than +6 off the short, because it's meaty. Idk how many hit frames the short has though, but even if you messup you should usually have +7 at least. Just work on your timing, and if they mash, start using meaty c.mp/s.mp on em. After 1 or two c.mp xx juggle kicks, dp hk or c.mp x2 xx rekkas, they'll probably stop mashing.
    i don't care what the critics say, violence is a beauuutiful thing!
  • eightysixeightysix Team Nanpa Seiken Joined: Posts: 313
    epsilon_ wrote:
    No, this isn't 3s haha. Fully invince dps ALWAYS beat meaties.

    Hahaha, I thought so. I could have sworn I've seen Makoto counter-hit a DP before. Oh well, the other guy probably tried to jab him or something on wake-up.
    Btw you have even more than +6 off the short, because it's meaty. Idk how many hit frames the short has though, but even if you messup you should usually have +7 at least. Just work on your timing, and if they mash, start using meaty c.mp/s.mp on em. After 1 or two c.mp xx juggle kicks, dp hk or c.mp x2 xx rekkas, they'll probably stop mashing.

    I've been thrown out of a meaty c.LK before by people I play. Then I start thinking to myself, "Wtf, this ain't ST!" :rofl:

    Exactly the info I'm looking for. I keep forgetting about the meaty s.MP mixup since Kyo has too many in his arsenal as it is. Good to know there are still some reliable people who give out good info on SRK. :tup:
    お前はもう死んでいる。
    You're already dead.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    meaty tip of c.MP is better for real, link far s.HK (counterhit) or rekkas (any hit, or HP rekkas for GC)
  • eightysixeightysix Team Nanpa Seiken Joined: Posts: 313
    ragnafrak wrote:
    meaty tip of c.MP is better for real, link far s.HK (counterhit) or rekkas (any hit, or HP rekkas for GC)

    I've linked a sweep on a counter-hit c.MP before. I got a wtf look from the other guy. :rofl:

    Honestly though, I'd say s.MP is better because it's much more meaty and you can tag ANOTHER c.MP after it into rekkas.
    お前はもう死んでいる。
    You're already dead.
  • epsilon_epsilon_ helpful Joined: Posts: 3,582
    Yeah, also when you start training them to start blocking c.shorts, the fun REALLY begins. They wake up you throw. Whiff c.short, throw. Tick meaty c.short, throw. c.short wait, c.short, c.mp xx rekkas.
    i don't care what the critics say, violence is a beauuutiful thing!
  • eightysixeightysix Team Nanpa Seiken Joined: Posts: 313
    Vs. Sakura

    Uh, found this out totally by accident (which is like 90% of how I figure shit out), but against Sak's whiffed s.HK, Kyo can s.LP it back a lot how you can jab Blanka after a whiffed c.HP.

    I know some of you are going to complain because it doesn't do enough damage, but is that what really matters here? Just let the Sak player know that whoring s.HK won't work all the time. And if they try and get smart by trying to walk into range, press your s.HK with Kyo as quick as you can and you'll hit her for free. Reset, avoid random RCs, get knockdowns and don't get hit by shosho. GGPO.

    I <3 theory fighter. :encore: :rofl:
    お前はもう死んでいる。
    You're already dead.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    df+HK Pressure, Mixup and Guard Crush Strings

    First, the frame data.

    :df::hk:
    400+800 damage
    +0/+0
    11/[4]/8/[4]/20
    First hit must be blocked low
    Second hit can be blocked high

    This move is awesome for a lot of reasons. Here's my strategy list and setups for it.

    When you land the move, hit or blocked (doesn't matter since the frame advantage is the same, zero), it's not a bad idea to pull the move again immediately. They'll be forced to take it or block it again, giving you the same situation as before. Perform the move again or go for mixups.

    The startup is 11 frames. The startup seems like a lot, but since the move is completely safe if it hits because of the zero frame advantage, the only way you can be screwed by using it is if they hit you out of it before it comes. If you mix up when you use the move, this is almost impossible.

    If you step back a bit before you do the move, the first hit will whiff and the second hit will land. This gives your opponent 23 frames to react to the movement, which is enough to pull off a anticipitory shoruyken or other quick invincible move on confirmation of movement. However, the first motion of the move looks a hell of a lot like Kyo's :d::mk:.

    :d::mk:
    900 damage
    -5/-5
    7/[9]/16

    After taking the step back, do the :d::mk: instead. If they attempt to hit you out of the second hit, they'll whiff and you'll have an chance at a free combo. If they sit there blocking, it's a message for them not to try anything as you slide in.

    If they try to jump over the :df::hk: as you start it, you will find the arc of their jump and the travel of your move will put you in the pefect position to :bdp::hp: them as they float over you to the other side. You will be under most crossups, and since the dp move has lots of invincibilty, it'll cut through all that crossup priority, too. This doesn't work as well with tall-jumping characters, but more with the shoto-type jumpers.

    If you want to keep them on the ground for sure, pull out the old far standing roundhouse, :hk:. 7 frame startup means they're not going to jump, and if they do, you'll hit them. Also try the :d::mk: at close range (also 7 frame startup) to give them double worries about not holding down and back. (Jump start up on the PNK grooves is 6 frames, to account for small jump.)

    This move makes it really easy to incorporate into your guard crush strings. After a rekka chain, if you can put in some crouching shorts, then link it into the kick slide, it's free GC damage. Continue with the mixups and you'll easily cut half their gauge. Activate in N-Groove for even more damage.

    It's one of Kyo's best abuseable moves. Take care not to over-abuse it, of course. Incorporate it into your game as with any other move.
  • Legendary GokouLegendary Gokou 210Nem Joined: Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    eightysix wrote:
    Vs. Sakura

    Uh, found this out totally by accident (which is like 90% of how I figure shit out), but against Sak's whiffed s.HK, Kyo can s.LP it back a lot how you can jab Blanka after a whiffed c.HP.

    I know some of you are going to complain because it doesn't do enough damage, but is that what really matters here? Just let the Sak player know that whoring s.HK won't work all the time. And if they try and get smart by trying to walk into range, press your s.HK with Kyo as quick as you can and you'll hit her for free. Reset, avoid random RCs, get knockdowns and don't get hit by shosho. GGPO.

    I <3 theory fighter. :encore: :rofl:

    Kyo can hit Sakura with his sweep. His reaches out farther than Sakura's st rh by a few pixels. If I see Sakura throwing it out carelessly, I start throwing out sweeps in retaliation (if I'm not in close).
    CFN: 210Nem
    SFV Karin
  • Mickey D'Mickey D' I feel for ya Mummy-B Joined: Posts: 1,828
    So I was at a tournament the other day, and this guy kept on doing:

    c.lk, c.mp, qcf lp x2....(stop) I try and hit him, he counter hits me with c.lk into combo.

    So whats the deal? I tried to punish him. Is there an advantage after the 2nd rekka? I tried to throw him, tried to c.lk/c.lp him after he stopped but it just didn't work!

    Can someone break the frames down for me?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    Mickey D' wrote:
    So I was at a tournament the other day, and this guy kept on doing:

    c.lk, c.mp, qcf lp x2....(stop) I try and hit him, he counter hits me with c.lk into combo.

    So whats the deal? I tried to punish him. Is there an advantage after the 2nd rekka? I tried to throw him, tried to c.lk/c.lp him after he stopped but it just didn't work!

    Can someone break the frames down for me?

    If you blocked the (first and) second rekka, he's at a -11 (dis)advantage, so you should be safe to sweep at the very least.

    If he hit you, on the other hand, he's at -2, which leads to favorable mixup opportunities for him. The only thing you can do in this situation is to block or pray for a perfect timing 2-frame startup close standing jab to trade (if you're close enough), which is not worth the risk.


    An attack chain I love to do with Kyo is if the rekka combo hits, I stop after the second and start it again with the c.lk, c.mp rekka chain again. If they try anything to punish it, they'll eat the chain again. I stop this second chain at the second hit again, which causes the other guy to freeze, which leads to a free kick throw and wakeup mixup.

    The nice thing about this is that any time after the first time you try it, they're likely to turtle up as the second hit connects. Instead of finishing off the successful combo with the kick or a risky overhead, just stop and throw them first thing. At worst, they'll tech out of it (or you'll tech out of their throw, if you're trying overheads, which can be thrown out of).
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,184 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    WindyMan wrote:
    If you blocked the (first and) second rekka, he's at a -11 (dis)advantage, so you should be safe to sweep at the very least.

    If he hit you, on the other hand, he's at -2, which leads to favorable mixup opportunities for him. The only thing you can do in this situation is to block or pray for a perfect timing 2-frame startup close standing jab to trade (if you're close enough), which is not worth the risk.


    An attack chain I love to do with Kyo is if the rekka combo hits, I stop after the second and start it again with the c.lk, c.mp rekka chain again. If they try anything to punish it, they'll eat the chain again. I stop this second chain at the second hit again, which causes the other guy to freeze, which leads to a free kick throw and wakeup mixup.

    The nice thing about this is that any time after the first time you try it, they're likely to turtle up as the second hit connects. Instead of finishing off the successful combo with the kick or a risky overhead, just stop and throw them first thing. At worst, they'll tech out of it (or you'll tech out of their throw, if you're trying overheads, which can be thrown out of).

    Check the frame data again. Jab rekka's first hit is at -5, mp first hit is -10, fp version is -11. Second hit for lp and mp is -2 hit, -11 blocked, fp version is +1 hit, -8 blocked. The first hit of the jab rekka is as safe as Iori's, so that is the one you should use if your opponent is blocking. I can only RC the mp/hp rekkas though, If I try to RC the lp version, I get the double kicks. If your rekkakens are hitting, I don't see why you wouldn't finish the combo, it sets up an ambiguous roll cross-up and you get the knock down. The only time you should be doing that is if you go for the counter hit rekka if you first one gets blocked.
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,184 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    eightysix wrote:
    I've linked a sweep on a counter-hit c.MP before. I got a wtf look from the other guy. :rofl:

    Honestly though, I'd say s.MP is better because it's much more meaty and you can tag ANOTHER c.MP after it into rekkas.

    s.mp is overrated. You can get as much frame advantage as s.mp off off c.mp. Difference is, if you mess up the meaty you are at +6 always. If you mess up the meaty with s.mp, you are at +/- 0. Regular c.mp lets you link a c.mp.
  • epsilon_epsilon_ helpful Joined: Posts: 3,582
    crouching medium punch can be parried high or low, as opposed to standing medium punch which must be parried high.
    i don't care what the critics say, violence is a beauuutiful thing!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    Check the frame data again. Jab rekka's first hit is at -5, mp first hit is -10, fp version is -11. Second hit for lp and mp is -2 hit, -11 blocked, fp version is +1 hit, -8 blocked.

    Well, he did say qcf+mp x2, meaning he was talking about the second hit in the rekka chain, for which my numbers are right.

    In either case, you are about 90% safe with the first hit of the LP rekka. The further away you are when you connect, the safer you are. People with stupid fast sweeps can tag you out of it, but generally you're good to abuse it.

    epsilon_ wrote:
    crouching medium punch can be parried high or low, as opposed to standing medium punch which must be parried high.

    Standing strong also does 100 more damage and reaches farther. It's just to thing to punish Bison Scissor Kicks.
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,184 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    WindyMan wrote:
    Well, he did say qcf+mp x2, meaning he was talking about the second hit in the rekka chain, for which my numbers are right.

    In either case, you are about 90% safe with the first hit of the LP rekka. The further away you are when you connect, the safer you are. People with stupid fast sweeps can tag you out of it, but generally you're good to abuse it.




    Standing strong also does 100 more damage and reaches farther. It's just to thing to punish Bison Scissor Kicks.

    My bad, I thought you were also refering to the first and second hit of the rekkas in general, thats how it sounded. I was just saying -11 for the first hit was incorrect, but you didn't mean it for that. Not only is s.mp longer, it's just as fast being 4 frames. But I swear I blocked a 2-hit knee press and I was out of range to use it, I got CC'd and died, lol. Sometimes you are so far away after a blocked rekka, the opponent can't do anything except lvl3. See how far away you are if Sagat blocks c.mp, c.lk, s.mp xx qcf+mp.
  • Legendary GokouLegendary Gokou 210Nem Joined: Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    This is kind of a random post, but .....


    Look for counter hit cr mp. If its counter hit, you can easily link st rh xx level 2 or 3 cloud super. Really good damage, especially with C groove.
    CFN: 210Nem
    SFV Karin
  • HellionHellion .5 Beat Combat Joined: Posts: 888
    The timing on far s.MP xx qcf+LP is very strict on punishing Bison's scissor kicks. I know just about the best way to hit is block standing, dunno about blocking late or early. Seems easier to block then let it go to neutral and hit MP. On occasion I've landed d.MP by accident, has to do mostly how I buffer the motions in during the animations of MP. Probably doing the down motion as soon as I hit the button.
    There's no mashing at all on that technique, and window of opportunity is very small.

    Will JD'ing the first of the two hits help in this, or must you always JD the last hit to get that extra edge?

    What are key things to watch against when fighting Bison?

    His Slide, RC Scissor kicks... When he's up close his BnB (I'm guessing it's d.LPx2, d.LK xx LK Scissor Kicks) How fast are his jabs, about the same as Kyo's shorts?
    I heard his air-to-air is good, with j.HK...

    I would imagine once Kyo gets the knockdown the game would be slightly in favor of him short of random activate slides or somesuch to beat his meaty attacks. Maybe activate slide isnt' the best option vs Kyo's d.LK, I dunno. How fast does slide come out?
    In such cases it's almost a guessing game for both players wouldn't you say?
    "No one quits SRK. NO ONE" -wepeel
    P-Kyo(2), Guile, Cammy
    ST-Guile
  • HellionHellion .5 Beat Combat Joined: Posts: 888
    K-Kyo vs A-Blanka on knockdowns

    Who has the upper hand on knockdown situations here?
    I just skimmed some later Blanka threads and it looks as if A-Blanka can fuck up Kyo's game a good deal.

    I don't know what the proper response for blocked RC Electricities, but my first instinct would be to d.MP xx lift kicks, etc. It's kinda easy to see RC electricity coming because it almost looks like he tries to get as damned close as possible to you. (It's a hella lot easier for me to JD all hits of that BS compared to JD'ing the measly 3 hits of Kaiser Wave. Gotta JD faster for that one)

    Problem is whiffed RC Electricity, throw, getting you to block without actually blocking and then throwing your ass. In addition to his short jump crossups to BnB's.

    It's like Blanka becomes just as dangerous as Kyo point blank.
    Doesn't have the kickthrow, but he doesn't need it because in the end he's top tier.

    Besides it looks like the kickthrow is too slow for up close and personal bouts with Blanka. Punch throw would be more ideal there.
    "No one quits SRK. NO ONE" -wepeel
    P-Kyo(2), Guile, Cammy
    ST-Guile
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    The biggest thing I keep in mind when playing Kyo vs Blanka is to go easy on the d/f+HK moves. Blanka is a jump happy character and I'm going to eat falling j.HK combos all day and get dizzy if I brainlessly stick out my d/f+HK move like I spam it against other characters.

    Blanka d.HP limb can be whiff punished from far away with Kyo's far s.HK or d.HK.

    Random rdp+LK move also has priority over Blanka's extended limbs, and Kyo gets the knockdown too.

    DON'T let Blanka cross you up. Kyo's dp+HP sucks in that it has a bad habit of going under jump-ins when you're not careful about your distancing. Since Blanka has a nasty jumping crossup attack with his j.MK, ALWAYS be ready to hit your Kyo close s.MK or jump back fierce.

    Blanka can mash on close s.HK to cleanly go over your low shorts. Don't stop using d.LK altogether (as that move must be blocked low so it's still good), but consider using d.LP to fish for counter hits or attack out of option select situations every now and then.

    Kyo d.MP beats the slide. So hit d.MP a lot when you're not actively doing something.

    Kyo far s.HK has very high priority over Blanka's common ground attacks. Use it to go over d.LK, d.MK, and d.HK. You can stuff d.HP's cleanly as they come out too.


    It doesn't matter how slow the throw is. When the opponent guesses block, he's going to get thrown no matter what. You set up the opponent to want to block by going for counter hits low jabs repeatedly on him.

    One of Kyo's biggest damage openings is off his option select throw/low jab actually. Get point blank and make it totally look like you want to go for "block low for a split second, kick throw." Only instead of doing kick throw, wait your split second and then do low jab instead. At point blank range, Kyo's d.LP has superior priority over Blanka's slower low short, so use it!

    Kyo can also do d.LP, kick throw perfectly and it leaves the opponent in the ideal wakeup situation for you to mix him up. Throw him again! :rofl:

    The only time I ever go for the punch throw is when I want to grab a wakeup RC elec. Even in that instance, I think I might be able to grab with the kick throw also if I practiced the timing enough.

    Although this probably doesn't even apply here because command grabs are different than regular grabs, know that Buktooth is really awesome at grabbing wake-up RC elec with his Iori command grab (which is even slower than Kyo's kick throw) in case you're still worried about throw speed.


    I hope I didn't misinterpret your post (sorry if I did), but anyway...

    RC elec gives Blanka +10 on the block (you knew that right?). When Blanka times his follow up d.HK right (within a three frame window), you can let go of the stick and still be stuck in block stun.

    Most Blanka's don't do that though. They hit their d.HK so there's a gap for you to mash on something (like the d.MP I think you're talking about), and you get counter hit and forced to block RC elec again as you get up.

    Whenever I block RC elec, I either...

    1. Continue blocking and look to see if Blanka does anything other than d.HK

    or

    2. dp+LP against Blanka's limb when he tries to follow up . (won't work if he linked his d.HK within three frame window)

    I never try to jump away or let go of my low block, and I certainly never try to hit Blanka with a d.MP after blocking HP elec though. Am I even in range for d.MP after blocking anyway?

    =========

    Fighitng against RC electricity:

    If Blanka whiffs RC elec, you get a FREE far s.MP xx punch chain combo if you're in range.

    If Blanka is mashing on his elec after whiffing, you get a free dp+HP.

    If Blanka whiffs RC elec at your max far s.HK range, do Kyo far s.HK xx cloud super (counters Blanka clean even if he mashes).

    I bet you could do max range d.MP xx up kicks on Blanka mashing elec too since there's an invincible hitbox at the tip of Kyo's first. I didn't test it, but I have a feeling the MK upkicks won't reach though...

    ----

    I don't mess with trying to guess throw or dp against Blanka doing meaty RC elec on me. I just block and let him chip me as I get up because the chip damage is less than guessing wrong and eating counter hit HP elec damage (and get knocked down again) anyway.

    The only thing I keep my eye open for is when Blanka goes for whiff RC elec, throw gimmick. In that case, I immediately attempt to counter his throw with a d.LP combo.

    You can do the same thing with K-groove JD by tapping d/b for a split second as you get up, immediately hit d.LP afterwards to do option select JD RC elec/throw counter.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    epsilon_ wrote:
    crouching medium punch can be parried high or low, as opposed to standing medium punch which must be parried high.
    I'll remember that for the next time I play against P-groove. Why don't you just post and say "blah, blah, blah.. blah blah... blah"

    as for kyo vs blanka.. this match sucks, because (as kang said) blanka can mash s.HK and beat your low short game.. I like to stick to c.MP/close s.HK up close against blanka.. since it will either trade with low shorts or beat his s.HK clean if he decides to be a bitch.. walking out of close s.HK range to get far s.HK is of course great since it will beat almost all of his normals. c.MP can be good against c.HP if you time it well. whiffing c.MPs at his max c.HP range is good, buffer qcf+HP and if it counterhits you can connect a HP rekka chain. i don't like trying to AA blanka, because his fast jumps/crossups can get you whiffing dp+HP, and close s.MK seems to get beat by j.HK randomly, i would stick to jump back HP/MP/LP

    against blanka balls (this is where P/K-kyo shines):
    - block low/high reversal qcf+MP (hits blanka out of the air)
    - block low/high mistimed qcf+MP (either gets you blocked rekka, which is safe, or a full rekka chain)
    - block low/high reversal RC qcf+MP (guaranteed rekka chain)
    - block low/high mistimed RC qcf+MP (might not be as safe, but if this happens you have a better situation if he does RC ball, RC ball)
    kcxj wrote:
    If Blanka is mashing on his elec after whiffing, you get a free dp+HP.
    this makes kyo the best character at uppercutting mashed electricities.. this shit has crazy range..
  • epsilon_epsilon_ helpful Joined: Posts: 3,582
    what? lol. thats pretty useful against p groove.
    i don't care what the critics say, violence is a beauuutiful thing!
  • HellionHellion .5 Beat Combat Joined: Posts: 888
    kcxj wrote:

    Although this probably doesn't even apply here because command grabs are different than regular grabs, know that Buktooth is really awesome at grabbing wake-up RC elec with his Iori command grab (which is even slower than Kyo's kick throw) in case you're still worried about throw speed.

    Whoa. That must have something to do with the 7 frame "can't throw me on wakeup" thing and the timing on Iori's 8 frame startup scum gale...
    Add to that the 1 or 2 frames on RC electricities...Or is it since Blanka's going for wake-up RC electricity that he looses the save and Iori can throw him at any point during the gamble?

    Is it like this... "OH, Iori's trying to grab me with that gay ass Scum Gale."
    "Heheh. Bastard can't RC that." (Move continues)
    RC Electricity gets grabbed because of the properties shared with
    the roll, and looses 7 frame window too so he can be thrown.
    "WTF???"

    Or is it Buk knows lots of people might think to abuse the RC electricities on wakeup like a perfect dragonpunch if Iori's standing over them to knock his ass off, and as a result does it anyway slightly earlier than they wake up to grab their RC reversal attempts?

    Sounds cool either way.

    The only catch to that I might say(or guess as you're better with Frames), is Iori's Scum Gale vs Kyo's "Issetsu Seoi Nage" is that Kyo could only do that once Blanka got up, and it'd come out as a s.HK unless he waited those 7 frames right? Unless Blanka's reversal RC electricties came out instead, with reversal timing it looks like it'd beat the kickthrow either way.

    You're right though, get the other guy to blockin and eating counter-hits he'd be susceptible to a kickthrow here and there. The windows of opportunity here in those instances are very small anyway, fast paced. To mash on RC electricity in these instances mustn't be so easy as some said because even mashing it takes precision right?
    kcxj wrote:
    Whenever I block RC elec, I either...

    1. Continue blocking and look to see if Blanka does anything other than d.HK

    or

    2. dp+LP against Blanka's limb when he tries to follow up . (won't work if he linked his d.HK within three frame window)

    I never try to jump away or let go of my low block, and I certainly never try to hit Blanka with a d.MP after blocking HP elec though. Am I even in range for d.MP after blocking anyway?

    Actually I didn't know it was +10, alls I knew was if whiffed Electricity was certainly punishable thanks to some framedata I read on here somewheres. Actually I think that was one of your posts. Like 13 frames recovery or somesuch.

    I meant I always go for JD's if Blanka's that close, if I guessed right I keep up the rhythm and JD all the hits and punish with d.MP (Think you could s.HK too in that instance) If I guessed wrong I'd be blocking anyway and taking more guard crush and chip from this green bastard. Problem was when he mixed up and threw. Never landed d.MP after blocking but after reading this I guess there's no point. :sweat: Thx.

    SOOOO

    Of the two options you mentioned you do blocking elec. You could keep blocking, which seems like the end result would be block electricity and d.HK (in that 3 frame window) or a nicely timed reversal dp+Lp which can get stuffed by that very same d.HK?

    Sounds like a lot of options are removed if Blanka's on the offensive with that shit. You mentioned far s.HK xx cloud super, (I remember that the tip of his foot is invincible right?) could you retaliate with that after blocking the whole string?
    kcxj wrote:

    I bet you could do max range d.MP xx up kicks on Blanka mashing elec too since there's an invincible hitbox at the tip of Kyo's first. I didn't test it, but I have a feeling the MK upkicks won't reach though...

    That seems kinda cool, I'll try this out and see how that works.
    kcxj wrote:
    You can do the same thing with K-groove JD by tapping d/b for a split second as you get up, immediately hit d.LP afterwards to do option select JD RC elec/throw counter.

    Now that sounds interesting. I didn't think K-Kyo had option selects like P-Kyo did.

    Hey thanks for the input. It's rare for me to fight top-end A-groove teams now-a-days. It still looks like that in the end though point blank, Blanka effectively makes the match even..:xeye:
    "No one quits SRK. NO ONE" -wepeel
    P-Kyo(2), Guile, Cammy
    ST-Guile
  • HellionHellion .5 Beat Combat Joined: Posts: 888
    ragnafrak wrote:
    walking out of close s.HK range to get far s.HK is of course great since it will beat almost all of his normals.

    I know theory fighter could be a bitch, but couldn't RC Blanka on reaction hop through whiffed s.HK and punish with a CC?
    (Just saying he see's the startup and mashes it)

    c.MP can be good against c.HP if you time it well. whiffing c.MPs at his max c.HP range is good, buffer qcf+HP and if it counterhits you can connect a HP rekka chain.

    That's cool. APOC says he invented that years ago, the technique of buffering specials/supers on good pokes like Eagle's d.MK for counterhits.
    Never actually incorporated this into my game... Too stuck on walking d.LK's. Looks good, no risk and tip of Kyo's fist is Godly after all...

    What are some good counterhit-setups to get at c.HP max range?
    Maybe kickthrow, walk back slightly bit d.MP?
    Kickkthrow, d.LK (can one short reach at that range?) d.MP?
    Walk up d.LK x 3 *pause* d.MP?

    Or maybe just kickthrow and meaty d.MP? If Blanka wakes with electricity shouldn't this move counter-hit just because of the invincible tip? Even if he blocks it and you cancel into qcf+HP you can go into his fierce rekka mixups so its all good, especially at the closing of a match right?
    "No one quits SRK. NO ONE" -wepeel
    P-Kyo(2), Guile, Cammy
    ST-Guile
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    Hellion wrote:
    Of the two options you mentioned you do blocking elec. You could keep blocking, which seems like the end result would be block electricity and d.HK (in that 3 frame window) or a nicely timed reversal dp+Lp which can get stuffed by that very same d.HK?
    If you get swept trying trying dp+LP, that means your DP didn't come out at all. You must of let go of low block by accident when you inputted your f, d, df joystick motion.

    There's no stuffing involved.

    Whenever Blanka does d.HK at the exact same time Kyo does dp+LP, Kyo will always win, period.

    What I meant was that the Blanka player doesn't always perfectly link his d.HK after a blocked HP elec within that three frame window though. That's why it's a good idea sometimes to attempt to dp+LP Blanka's anticipated d.HK or input a JD attempt.
    Hellion wrote:
    You're right though, get the other guy to blockin and eating counter-hits he'd be susceptible to a kickthrow here and there. The windows of opportunity here in those instances are very small anyway, fast paced. To mash on RC electricity in these instances mustn't be so easy as some said because even mashing it takes precision right?
    A throw is a throw. I use a throw as an attempt to do damage to people when I anticipate that they will block. Other than when you're trying to throw a wake-up RC electricity attempt, I can't think of any real significant instances where it makes a difference whether you used the punch throw or the kick throw. I DO know that kick throw has just as much range as the punch throw but leaves you in much better position than the punch throw does though.
    Hellion wrote:
    Actually I didn't know it was +10, alls I knew was if whiffed Electricity was certainly punishable thanks to some framedata I read on here somewheres. Actually I think that was one of your posts. Like 13 frames recovery or somesuch.
    The HP elec is +10 on the BLOCK. Blanka gets to move ten frames before you do while you're still stuck in block stun.

    If he whiffs the RC elec, you can punish it like you would whiff punish any other whiffed move. Just be quick about it since Blanka's whiff animation IS very short (but still punishable never the less.)
    Hellion wrote:
    Sounds like a lot of options are removed if Blanka's on the offensive with that shit. You mentioned far s.HK xx cloud super, (I remember that the tip of his foot is invincible right?) could you retaliate with that after blocking the whole string?
    Blanka is at -3 after you block his d.HK.

    You can't punish him for that.

    So no, you don't have any guaranteed retaliations after Blanka does that HP elec (blocked), d.HK string on you.

    Even when you JD the d.HK, Kyo still doesn't have a move that reaches in time to get a guaranteed hit on Blanka. If would be sweet if you could do Kyo far s.HK xx super after JDing the sweep like you can with K-Sagat's JD, four frame d.MK xx super, but you can't.

    The Kyo far s.HK is too slow at seven frame startup.

    ==========

    Blanka's RC hop move sucks and only scrubs do that, so I don't know why you're theory fightering about that move. I'm not the slightest bit afraid of that LAGGY RC command hop and neither should you be as well. I HOPE my opponent likes to do it randomly on me actually, so I can destroy him for it.

    I also don't know ANY good Blanka players that mash on s.HK at close range btw in response to the Ragnafrak post. Again, that's some useless theory fighter stuff and I was just sayin'...

    ... you never know when your opponent might go random on you though, or if you're using d.LK TOO much, he might catch on and randomly throw out a close s.HK just to keep you honest.

    I would hardly call Blanka's s.HK a move that makes this match totally suck for Kyo and "shut down" his low short game though.


    Why are you guys even responding to year old epsilon posts if you're just going to make some "blah, blah, blah" comments (literally)? :rofl:
  • HellionHellion .5 Beat Combat Joined: Posts: 888
    kcxj wrote:

    So no, you don't have any guaranteed retaliations after Blanka does that HP elec (blocked), d.HK string on you.
    Damn. That sucks.
    So dp+LP is it?
    Would that buy Kyo enough time to go on the offensive against A-Blanka, with save fall and all?
    Or try to back away after the whole string and play the match again typical Kyo-like, careful 'til you get the knockdown?
    kcxj wrote:

    Blanka's RC hop move sucks and only scrubs do that, so I don't know why you're theory fightering about that move.

    Sorry, I don't see vids often and I've never fought good A-Blankas. Just scrub A-Blankas that abuse all his RC's. The only character I'm able to fight him with and defeat is a highly offensive Nakoruru, and I attribute that to their lack of experience fighting her.
    In my experience if my Kyo beats that A-Blanka, he usually defeats the whole team and I believe then that the guy doesn't really know how to play against Kyo when he's on the offensive and I'm not really learning anything.

    My best bet is to head to SVGL this New Years vacation (I'm stuck in Mississippi)
    And play the most games I can before I come back here and vegetate some more.
    Unless there's any competition at all within driving distance, which I doubt. Florida maybe? Texas?
    kcxj wrote:
    Why are you guys even responding to year old epsilon posts if you're just going to make some "blah, blah, blah" comments (literally)? :rofl:

    Well, I was just responding to Ragnafrak. I am starting to piece together all the posts you've done on Kyo (yeah I read them all) and understand plenty of what you can do to Blanka at range, but with Kyo's up close and personal game it looks like all A-Blanka's got to do is just RC Electricity away and hope with a smile on his ugly mug. It almost litterally looks like the only thing he needs to do to make Kyo think more.

    Actually now that I think on it JDing the electricities isn't hard, if you knock his ass down and stand over him in your experience would he be inclined to RC elec on wake up till you punish him consistently for it? Hell multiple JD's to kickthrow for instance?

    Another Angle
    I found the thread on RCing the electricity in general discussion, was wondering how good exactly Kyo can walk d.LK's (OR d.LP's) on his ass. The timing is very strict I would imagine, dealing Kyo's frame advantage vs Blanka's 2 frame jabs to RC electricities here.
    Just gotta land that first d.Lk/d.LP when Blanka's standing up.

    Sorry if I am frustrating you here with the questions and all. Just wanted to come up to speed so I'm not throwing all my money away when I do visit Cali.:wonder:
    "No one quits SRK. NO ONE" -wepeel
    P-Kyo(2), Guile, Cammy
    ST-Guile
  • HellionHellion .5 Beat Combat Joined: Posts: 888
    qcf+MK, MK

    I saw what Buk posted about this move, so I tested it against Sagat, Yamazaki, Geese, Zangief and found out some stuff.

    Sagat

    This was the most interesting of them.

    Poke wise, Kyo can tag Sagat with the second hit of this move and throw out a far s.MP or d.MP (if he's close enough) and counter-hit everything Sagat has.

    DP wise, Jab/strong DP's trade counter hits, but Fierce always beats Kyo there. Haven't tried going low with d.MK, but I would imagine the results would be worse off due to its slightly slower startup.

    Just due to the fierce DP, I imagine reversal Supers would naturally do the same.

    Geese

    Poke wise, I couldn't get his close s.LK to come out on one his of the lift kicks, so I had Kyo do it closer and go for a d.MP, and of course Geese would counterhit. Tried having Kyo do s.LP, d.LK, etc. Results were similar, but slightly sporadic. Counterhits would go either way. Timing must be on point here.

    Yamazaki

    Poke wise, I'm not too familiar with the speeds of Yamazaki's pokes, but I was almost sure he had slower moves than Kyo had. Just mashing s.LP seemed to counter-hit Kyo all the time no matter what Kyo pushed. Dunno if this has to do with the characters height vs Kyo's height or anything and he might've been simply poking Kyo's arm past the assaulting hitbox. I dunno.

    Reversal Grab super always landed.

    Zangief

    Poke wise, I didn't bother. I just went for reversal SPD's, beat Kyo every time. Maybe though I could go for a super so the flash and invincibility will have SPD whiff and punish Gief for it, seems like it'd work. What if he RC's 360+K and gets the walking grab? Dunno yet but it could best Kyo there.


    Blanka

    I know Buk said Sagat sized characters, I tried on Blanka anyway due to many people on SRK calling him a "fatty" due t to hitbox size.

    He could of course duck it. I block standing anyway.
    Responded with the d.LP, s.LP and counter-hits were in his favor of course.:bluu:

    Will try some more stuff and update the post later on.
    "No one quits SRK. NO ONE" -wepeel
    P-Kyo(2), Guile, Cammy
    ST-Guile
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