Rebalancing ST Remix

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  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,626
    u misunderstand his standard crazy lk looks like it should work like that but it doesnt ovrhead. On that same note it cant even seem to combo reliably, i believe it should either ovrhead or just b faster than it currently is so it can combo. It feels completely useless. Im not talking about the actual ovrhead version just standard version. Not to b snide but should vega really have an AA on top of those pokes he has?

    Is that a joke ?
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  • NorieagaNorieaga FADC x ROFLCOPTER Joined: Posts: 4,218
    I may be in the minority here...

    M. Bison (Dic)
    - Give him recovery on short scissor kicks. Every time a Dic scissor kicks me (no homo), he can combo it further without stopping. It becomes a cheese fest, and Dic already has amazing dizzy potential
    - Bison can also spam the standing short (knee press) infinitely, and the only counter I found was to throw somehow.

    Guile
    - slightly longer recovery on Booms

    Cammy
    - faster spin knuckle, its slow start means you must predict a fireball to use it properly
    - short front kick safe on block

    Zangief
    - slightly lower SPD priority

    Chun-Li
    - slightly lower jumping short priority
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Joined: Posts: 0
    Fei: Revert CW's back to turbo abilities along with his flame kick while maintainING the juggle potential of remix. Jumping RH cross-up from SSF2 returns along with the ability to cancel a rekka from any normal like SSF2.
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  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    The fact that this thread even exists says a lot about HD Remix. You shouldn't have to rebalance the "rebalanced" version of ST. :confused:
    STHD isn't perfect but it's much better then classic ST:nunchuck:
    EL OH EL EXCLAMATION POINT
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  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853
    These type threads need to die.

    They always come up and never go anywhere. Somewhere along they way there is going to some lame agruement that is going to last 7 pages between somebody who thinks he knows more than he really does, and another person who actually knows even less but thinks he knows the most.

    Good, bad, right, or worng, the game is what it is, it not going to change.
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  • FreshOJFreshOJ It's the God in me.. Joined: Posts: 1,485
    I may be in the minority here...

    M. Bison (Dic)
    - Give him recovery on short scissor kicks. Every time a Dic scissor kicks me (no homo), he can combo it further without stopping. It becomes a cheese fest, and Dic already has amazing dizzy potential
    - Bison can also spam the standing short (knee press) infinitely, and the only counter I found was to throw somehow.

    On your first point, ask yourself...if Dictator didn't have that move, how well would he be able to safely do block damage? It's pretty much the only safe and quick way he has to do that. Since he's not broken already, I think it's fine. Since you let him get that close, he gets a block damage mix-up. A reversal special move will stuff any follow-up poke and a reversal throw will counter any throw attempt.

    On your second point, I can see where you're coming from, given that he gets an amazing 9 frames of advantage from making contact....oh wait...you meant FAR standing short! Far standing short, while it is an excellent poke, isn't any faster than most jabs out there. He gets 5 frames of advantage from it, which is actually a little better than average, but he can't spam it infinitely. Eventually, you'll either be out of range or he'll try to walk up and he'll be open to a reversal throw or special move.
    Guile
    - slightly longer recovery on Booms

    Guile is...what...mid to high tier right now? He's perfect as is.
    Cammy
    - faster spin knuckle, its slow start means you must predict a fireball to use it properly
    - short front kick safe on block

    I agree with the first suggestion, but highly disagree with the second one. There's no reason for it when she has a safe Cannon Drill. Her problem isn't keeping people off of her. It's being able to crack turtle shells. That's part of why she's in the bottom tier.
    Zangief
    - slightly lower SPD priority

    Do you mean throw range or that it shouldn't grab you out of certain things if your feet are on the floor?

    If it's the former, consider Sirlin's SSF2T Tutorial where he tells you that the range for the SPD is shorter than his crouching roundhouse range. Since it hasn't changed, the only way you're getting grabbed by it is if he makes you afraid of the sweep. He's out-thinking you and he's being rewarded correctly for it.

    If it's the latter, remember that any move that either puts you in the air or has invincibility frames cannot be thrown. If you see a tick attempt coming, use one of those moves or...if he's close enough, throw him first with a reversal throw.

    And, again, anybody that's near the bottom should *not* have anything nerfed. The SPD is fine as is.
    Chun-Li
    - slightly lower jumping short priority

    Jumping short doesn't cause a problem unless you don't properly anti-air it.
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  • MiloDCMiloDC You betcha! Joined: Posts: 473
    STHD isn't perfect but it's much better then classic ST
    EL OH EL EXCLAMATION POINT

    Apparently, NKI prefers classic ST.

    I definitely don't.

    Is there a poll somewhere? I wonder what the ratio of preference is, around here.
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  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    fresh - a normal reversal throw doesnt beat ticks. as far as i know thats never been the case
  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    fresh - a normal reversal throw doesnt beat ticks. as far as i know thats never been the case
    Heh what, it 100% does. If you're in range for your throw, you'll win on a throw after an opponent's tick every time, even if your opponent is doing a command grab. Reversal throws always beat non-reversal throws.
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  • Syxx573Syxx573 Jo Mama Joined: Posts: 8,963
    Does the person who has the longest throw range win if they do a tick outside of their opponent's throw range? Or are normals always shorter in range than everyone's throw range?
  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    Does the person who has the longest throw range win if they do a tick outside of their opponent's throw range? Or are normals always shorter in range than everyone's throw range?
    In a throw battle between 2 characters with different throw ranges where they're outside one character's throw range but still inside the other's, the character with the longer throw range will always win.

    You mean normal attacks? Some normals have shorter range than their character's throws, some have more.
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  • Syxx573Syxx573 Jo Mama Joined: Posts: 8,963
    Also, what about after meaty attacks? Doesn't that give the person an advantage on block in order to tick throw successfully? Just wondering about these things because you said that that reversal throws always beat non-reversal throws and I think there may be exceptions. Sorry if I seem like I'm trying to argue I just wonder about stuff like this and you guys are the real experts so I figured this would be a good time to ask.
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    The fact that this thread even exists says a lot about HD Remix. You shouldn't have to rebalance the "rebalanced" version of ST.

    Classic ST is the 5th rebalanced version of WW. SF2 has been constantly refined ever since the original WW. ST Remix is great as is, but I just wanted to make a wish list of what I thought would help balance the game even further, ESPECIALLY the bottom tier, Akuma and Honda.
    Also, what about after meaty attacks? Doesn't that give the person an advantage on block in order to tick throw successfully? Just wondering about these things because you said that that reversal throws always beat non-reversal throws and I think there may be exceptions. Sorry if I seem like I'm trying to argue I just wonder about stuff like this and you guys are the real experts so I figured this would be a good time to ask.

    I'm definitely not an expert, but IMO reversal throws do not always beat non-reversal throws. If your opponent is able to throw you, then you are also able to throw your opponent. Except of course if you were in recovery frames (eg whiffed Shoryuken, jumping/landing frames, etc), in which case your opponent gets a free throw. And if you were knocked down, you cannot be thrown for several frames after waking up.

    For example: if Chun Li does meaty st.Strong on a knocked down Fei Long, the st.Strong will put Fei in hitstun or blockstun (if he didn't reversal attack or reversal throw). Fei cannot be thrown during hitstun or blockstun, so Chun Li has to wait after doing the st.Strong to throw him. When Fei is out of hit/blockstun he can also throw Chun Li. If both players throw at the same time, the game will randomly give one character the throw, about a 50-50% chance.

    So even if Fei did a reversal throw after the st.Strong, he could still lose the throw battle to Chun Li, especially since she has more throw range than him. I don't know if command throws have priority over normal throws, but if I had to guess, I would say it's also a 50-50% chance that the throw could go to either character. I believe this is how it works, and anybody can correct me if I'm wrong.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    shit well, i had no idea bout that. either way thats likely to never happen since ticks like that rarely happen.
  • Coth_XCoth_X G(x) = (3/(1-3x)) - 3 - 3x - 27x^2 Joined: Posts: 4,340
    Is that a joke ?

    Which part? His standard crazy lk is slow as fuck. The vega comment is me raging because I asked n the ken thread and got no help for that matchup, I hate vega because I cannot figure out how to fight him properly.
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  • SweetJohnnyVSweetJohnnyV Streets ahead! Joined: Posts: 1,981 mod
    Does the person who has the longest throw range win if they do a tick outside of their opponent's throw range? Or are normals always shorter in range than everyone's throw range?

    The way I've always understood it is like this. Basically, on each frame the game:

    1. Reads input
    2. Figures out if characters changed state (Started a move, did a throw, etc)
    3. Figures out who is getting hit, blocking, throwing.

    Also, I believe that throws > attacks UNLESS the attack makes you invincible or unthrowable. An unthrowable state occurs when the move makes you leave the ground (ex. Blanka's up-ball).

    So, for example, on wake-up:

    Meaty fierce punch vs reversal frame throw: Throw wins.
    Meaty SRK vs reversal frame throw: SRK wins.

    Since you can't be thrown for 13 frames after waking up, an opponent that wants to throw you has to use ticks(normal attacks) to keep you busy for that time. The net result is that you can always reversal attack OR reversal throw the first tick.

    After you block the tick(s), you both become throwable. At that point:

    Throw vs reversal frame throw: Coin toss.
    Throw vs reversal attack: Attack wins.
    Throw outside your throw range vs reversal throw attempt: The reversal attempt results in a regular attack, so you get thrown.


    Don't take this as gospel. I could be wrong about this. But that's the way I think it works.
  • RaakamRaakam Ryu apprentice Joined: Posts: 273
    The person being ticked has the advantage on counter throwing, assuming they are in range. As soon as the block/hit stun ends, they have the ability to counter throw before the opponent can.

    Scenario 1:
    Chun does st.mp to a cornered Ken:

    Ken can wake up reversal DP and make Chun-li regret the meaty attempt.

    Ken can wake up reversal throw. The only time wake up throws don't work is if the opponent is a) too far away, b) invincible (Initial frames of super, dp) c) in the air.

    The st.mp lands:

    As soon as the block stun ends, Ken can reversal throw. If he times it right, Chun-li loses 100% of the time.

    In counter throwing cases, Turbo users have a tremendous advantage. Assholes.

    Ken can screw up the timing. If he does it a little late, it's possible both him and Chun-li attempted to throw on the same frame, in which case the game randomly decides.

    Ken can reversal DP. He is invincible and cannot be thrown and hits Chun-li if she is trying to throw him. She gets a normal move and eats Ken's dp in the face.

    Scenario 2:

    T-Hawk attempts a st.mk against a cornered Dictator from the proper range (I'm sure Kuroppi or Jiggly could let you know where that is):

    T-Hawk is out of Dictator's throw range and thus cannot be counter thrown. Dictator can wake up reversal Devil's Reverse and use the invuln frames to get out (maybe).

    The tick lands.

    A) Dictator can attempt a reversal Devil's Reverse to escape. He can get away or the Hawk player guessed right and made him eat a psychic DP.

    Or

    B) Dictator attempts anything else and eats a Typhoon/Super. He is too far to counter throw and has nothing to escape.

    Stolen from the wiki:
    Reversals

    A reversal is defined as any time you go from a non-neutral state directly into a move (normal, special, super, or throw), without ever going to neutral state. A non-neutral state is any state that your opponent inflicts on you: block stun, hit stun, getting up after being knocked down, dizzy, or being knocked out of the air.

    Easiest example: your opponent knocks you down, and as you're getting up, you time a DP perfectly so that it comes out on the first frame possible. You never go to neutral state - you go directly from getting up animation to DP animation. You get a reversal message, and 1000 points! (Note that you only get a reversal message for specials and supers.)

    You can always do a reversal, no matter what your opponent is doing. Even if your opponent is doing a meaty attack to you as you land or as you get up, you can still reversal. Because throws are zero-frame (read: they have no start-up), a reversal throw will beat a meaty. Reversal throws can be used to escape things such as Boxer's [throw, walk under, meaty cr.Forward, throw] loop. (Throw him as you land, while he is trying to do the meaty cr.Forward.)

    and

    Randomness

    Unfortunately, in ST there is a fair amount of randomness. Known randomness includes:

    * The amount of damage done by a move (This can be extreme)
    * "dizzy meter" length. i.e. "How long it takes you to become dizzy"
    * The amount of dizzy damage done by a move
    * The charge times for special/super moves (Can vary up to 3 frames)
    * Ryu's [cr.Short->cr.Short xx super] simply won't combo half the time, even when timed perfectly.
    * Gief's standing 720 (He'll just jump half the time, even when timed perfectly)
    * Who gets the throw when both players input the command on the same frame.
    * Getting a normal move when attempting a wake-up throw against a meaty attack
  • FreshOJFreshOJ It's the God in me.. Joined: Posts: 1,485
    Guys...let's not overcomplicate this.

    Remember...the reversal window is a one frame window that still counts as hit/block stun. That means, the person *not* in hit/block stun *cannot* throw the person that is in hit/block stun. Meanwhile, the person that's in the reversal window...the person in the last frame of their hit/block stun...*can* throw someone within their throw range *or* perform a special move.

    If you need further explanation, this is covered quite well in Sirlin's ST tutorial. You'll even get video to see what I typed playing out before your eyes.

    The fact that a person in hit/block stun can throw or special move one frame before their attacker is why tick throws, air-reset throws, and throws on wake-up are actually escapable. If they weren't...well...then...yeah...they'd be cheap. :)
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  • Syxx573Syxx573 Jo Mama Joined: Posts: 8,963
    right right i get the basics and that i was more interested in the nitty gritty stuff and exceptions...

    for example I am convinced that well timed meaties are un(throw) reversible.... like there is a certain window ... like a small window where if you time your meaty right they can't do anything other than block or get hit.
  • SweetJohnnyVSweetJohnnyV Streets ahead! Joined: Posts: 1,981 mod
    I am convinced that well timed meaties are un(throw) reversible.... like there is a certain window ... like a small window where if you time your meaty right they can't do anything other than block or get hit.

    Incorrect. The only way to do a meaty that cannot be countered by a reversal throw/attack is if the meaty attack is done from such a far distance that you are outside of the range of their throw or reversal attack.

    For example, if you do Gief's far crouching roundhouse from MAX range, so that just the tip of it hits, you might be far enough away to avoid being hit by a reversal SRK or to be thrown. If instead, you do Chun's close fierce punch as a meaty everyone should be able to reverse your attempt.

    The only reason why it seems like some of these things work is that people don't always nail the timing.
  • VirtuaFighterFourVirtuaFighterFour VirtuaFighter.com Joined: Posts: 1,572
    right right i get the basics and that i was more interested in the nitty gritty stuff and exceptions...

    for example I am convinced that well timed meaties are un(throw) reversible.... like there is a certain window ... like a small window where if you time your meaty right they can't do anything other than block or get hit.
    A reversal special (that has invulnerable frames or attack hit boxes on the first frame) or a reversal throw will beat any meaty ground attack every time.

    That's why safe jumps are so great, you can option select your opponent with a well timed jump. If they reverse then you land safely in and block, if they don't reverse then they either block or eat your jump in.
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  • KhiempossibleKhiempossible NAGEHAME User Joined: Posts: 3,254
    Incorrect. The only way to do a meaty that cannot be countered by a reversal throw/attack is if the meaty attack is done from such a far distance that you are outside of the range of their throw or reversal attack.

    For example, if you do Gief's far crouching roundhouse from MAX range, so that just the tip of it hits, you might be far enough away to avoid being hit by a reversal SRK or to be thrown. If instead, you do Chun's close fierce punch as a meaty everyone should be able to reverse your attempt.

    The only reason why it seems like some of these things work is that people don't always nail the timing.

    risk/reward

    chun's cl.fp xx lightning legs is like 40% + probable dizzy lol
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  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,626
    Which part? His standard crazy lk is slow as fuck. The vega comment is me raging because I asked n the ken thread and got no help for that matchup, I hate vega because I cannot figure out how to fight him properly.

    The vega comment you silly man.
    Haunts: Is it lag or just impeccable footsies and spacing, I don't know.
    MiloDC: I beat YuuVega -- yes, that YuuVega -- the first time I played Claw seriously in my entire life.
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    for example I am convinced that well timed meaties are un(throw) reversible.... like there is a certain window ... like a small window where if you time your meaty right they can't do anything other than block or get hit.
    In general reversal throw will win, but there are certain times (seemingly random) where even a perfectly timed reversal throw won't work. Instead of a throw, you'll hear a reversal normal move come out (even though you were point-blank, and holding back). You can still block in this situation, because [normal move + block] on the same frame results in hearing the normal move but still blocking.

    I still have no idea why this happens, but I can reproduce it fairly easily.
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  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    In general reversal throw will win, but there are certain times (seemingly random) where even a perfectly timed reversal throw won't work. Instead of a throw, you'll hear a reversal normal move come out (even though you were point-blank, and holding back). You can still block in this situation, because [normal move + block] on the same frame results in hearing the normal move but still blocking.

    I still have no idea why this happens, but I can reproduce it fairly easily.

    Really? Wow, I've never seen that. The only thing close to this that I've experienced is Chun Li's Reversal Upkick. 9 out of 10 times I'll get it, but once in a while I'll hear her say "Yap!", but nothing comes out and I'm still blocking. Weird. And seems to happen only with Chun Li.
  • Syxx573Syxx573 Jo Mama Joined: Posts: 8,963
    In general reversal throw will win, but there are certain times (seemingly random) where even a perfectly timed reversal throw won't work. Instead of a throw, you'll hear a reversal normal move come out (even though you were point-blank, and holding back). You can still block in this situation, because [normal move + block] on the same frame results in hearing the normal move but still blocking.

    I still have no idea why this happens, but I can reproduce it fairly easily.

    OK Thanks!!! I always wondered about this. I knew I wasn't crazy though :)
  • Coth_XCoth_X G(x) = (3/(1-3x)) - 3 - 3x - 27x^2 Joined: Posts: 4,340
    The vega comment you silly man.

    It seems I can only beat vegas that try too many wall games, when they just turtle and poke I might as well just let them win.
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  • Data BeastData Beast Joined: Posts: 591
    I'd like to see a 'SF Anniversary' patch for HD Remix that adds 'old' versions of each character with elements from WW, CE and HF.
  • FreshOJFreshOJ It's the God in me.. Joined: Posts: 1,485
    ^^

    Well...the only thing about that is doing such a thing would *completely* unbalance the game. I believe a fairly reliable tier list for Anniversary Edition is in the Shoryuken.com Wiki. Check out the tiers there and you'll see what I mean.
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  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,626
    Fuck yeah CE Bison !
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  • Data BeastData Beast Joined: Posts: 591
    ^^

    Well...the only thing about that is doing such a thing would *completely* unbalance the game. I believe a fairly reliable tier list for Anniversary Edition is in the Shoryuken.com Wiki. Check out the tiers there and you'll see what I mean.

    What I meant was that there would be a single rebalanced 'old' version of each character with elements from WW, CE and HF. It'd be like what Sirlin did with the SSF2 and SSF2T characters in HD Remix. I always thought that this is what they should have done in the first place.
  • FreshOJFreshOJ It's the God in me.. Joined: Posts: 1,485
    What I meant was that there would be a single rebalanced 'old' version of each character with elements from WW, CE and HF. It'd be like what Sirlin did with the SSF2 and SSF2T characters in HD Remix. I always thought that this is what they should have done in the first place.

    Oh...I get it now. :) I think that could be interesting.
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  • Josh-TheFunkDOCJosh-TheFunkDOC Double Dutch! Joined: Posts: 2,404 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    In general reversal throw will win, but there are certain times (seemingly random) where even a perfectly timed reversal throw won't work. Instead of a throw, you'll hear a reversal normal move come out (even though you were point-blank, and holding back). You can still block in this situation, because [normal move + block] on the same frame results in hearing the normal move but still blocking.

    I still have no idea why this happens, but I can reproduce it fairly easily.

    I think I can actually offer some decent guesses for this.

    Some normal moves may have unhittable boxes at their tip or some other weird area. I know this is the case with Boxer's low strong, at least. Hell, I use it as a meaty against Akuma since reversal DPs just whiff right through it.

    Or it could be the frame-dropping issue with higher game speed, similar to how safe-jumping against Ryu is a 50/50 proposition even with perfect timing.
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  • GanelonGanelon Joined: Posts: 1,101
    That's because the throwable hitbox (same as the vulnerable hitbox?) is too far and you'll either block if you messed up or get hit if you try to reversal throw on time. But that's not what NKI is talking about. Sometimes, a point blank move with attack and vulnerable hitboxes definitely within throw range won't be reversal thrown and you'll just block but also hear the sound effect for that button's normal.
  • MackdaddiMackdaddi The Great Dictator Joined: Posts: 754
    I love threads like this, just for the "theory fighter" arguments that pop up.I doubt that we'll see a rebalancing patch for this game, just purely for financial reasons from capcom, and i already think that HDR is the purest form of street fighter i've seen to date, so even if it's never re-rebalanced it's still my all time fave SF game, but here are my 2 cents on some of the more irksome things that could do with a change or 3.

    I'm trying to stay away from the "buff my favourite character and nerf everyone else" bullshit here and think of the overall game balance.

    Honda: Take away the stored ochio.Along with the lack of a whiff animation it's a major advantage that he doesn't need up close. In return give him back his stored super, and make the startup invulnerable to fireballs, not just the mid air part.The rationale for this is that it can be soooooo hard for honda to get into mid distance against the likes of turtling deejay that he needs an option from full screen.Also make the firece HHS even easier to mash out.I don't think that how fast you can mash should be an obstacle to whether you can get a special move or not, it should be available whenever you need it.Make the HHS do less chip damage across the board to compensate, and give the fierce one more pushback on block to push honda farther away.Leave the super as punishable on block, and make the fierce torpedo less safe on block so it's not as spammable.
    Jab torpedo should also be able to go through akuma's 3 hit red fireball, instead of getting hit by hits 2/3.This is just lame and adds to akuma's bullshit keep out tactics where he's already got a big advantage in that match.

    Ryu: Nothing except a few wierd random niggles like some combos not working even if you time them perfectly.I think they got it more or less right with him.Love the fake fireball's effect on his mind games.

    Ken: Some way to nerf the spam Jab dragon punch tactic that's so abused online because of lag.This is a tricky one, because the techniqie only works onlne, and is quite punishable offline, but the miniscule window to punish that's so random online just results in a spammable move that ken can do way too much with little risk.Spam should be punishable, not nearly risk free.Also slightly nerf the horizontal range of his fierce DP.Seems silly that i can jump back to evade it, and still get hit by it at the very apex, way late in it's trajectory.

    Deejay.Make it even easier to mash out all 4 hits on the MGU.It's a pretty worthless move as it is, except for in combos, it shouldn't whiff and leave you vulnerable after 1 or 2 hits.Sirlin fixed the same kind of issue by making ken's firece dragon punch juggle for 3 hits instead of sometimes whiff after the first one.If you get in and hit with an MGU you should get all 4 hits, to make it useful, not eat a reversal cause of the variable hit timings depending on how fast you mash.Also a tiny nerf on the startup of the max out projectile, because it's stoopid fast.

    Blanka: Completely buff his super.It's shit, and nobody falls for the "hold the button to delay it" trick.So many characters can just spam crouching jab on reaction once they see it start up, and will beat it clean.Take away the slow startup and make it come out instantly and travel around the same speed as dictator or honda's super instead but be somewhat vulnerable on block.

    Guile: Fix the "can't combo into super with the new motion" bug.Also make the mid air backbreaker move a more deliberate choice, instead of something that gomes out by accident when a guile who's in mid air and has started charging down back hits HK to kick you, and gets a backbreaker back throw by accident instead for twice the damage.Either nerf the damage by 50% to make it the same amount as a HK, or make the move a forward air throw only so he has to lose charge to go for it.Everything else is fine.Love the new overhead, and the speed feels just right.

    Boxer: Fix the TAP negative edging glitch, and less invincible startup on buffalo headbutt.Nothing else.

    Dictator: Give standing jab even more priority as an anti air.It would strengthen bison's corner game, but not by too much, a big damage anti air would give him too much advantage combined with his offense.The idea that somebody posted of giving him a teleport to escape corner traps is ludicrous.It would make him seriously overpowered.

    Akuma:Shit where do i start.It's all been said before, but key ones are a recovery on landing from air fireball, inability to do hi/low mixup with air fireball/crMK, no inescapable demon glitch, and all the usual broken bullshit.

    There are also loads of annoying things about the game design.There are other threads about these so i won't go into detail, but an option to kill the rubbish music all over the menu screens would be good, as well as both players having to hit OK to start the game in the lobby so you're not sucked into another match when you wanted to leave.An option to leave a spectator match would be good too, and generally making lobbies easier to get out of without disconnecting (aside from while actually fighting of course) would be good to have.

    Killing the menu screens to study the hitboxes in training mode, and a record mode to set up training on specific situations would also be priceless.An option for a 2 player training mode via xbox live would be cool for teaching people combos etc.
    これはあなたの墓があります......This place shall become your grave
  • TschesaeTschesae Joined: Posts: 178
    Oh you won't nerf my DJ^^

    Dee Jays gameplay is very much about his MOs and nerfing them would make him much worse. He's really fine as he is now. A bit like Ryu.


    I think rebalancing just Honda would make this game almost perfect. He generates the most unfair matchups of all the characters I think. I don't really know the effects of taking away the stored Ochio but to me it sounds good. Fierce HHS really do a lot of chip dam, especially when done on wakeup. Maybe just increase the pushback? Honda should be a powerful character and his HHS should feel damaging. Making the super go through fireballs on startups seems fair but then increase the pushback or Honda wins the round if he lands his Super.
  • FreshOJFreshOJ It's the God in me.. Joined: Posts: 1,485
    ^^

    Actually, I think that's a very good point. Nerfing Dee Jay's Max Out's would make his matchup with Ryu, who is already his worst matchup, even worse than it is now. Ryu's Hadoukens, which don't need a charge, easily help him win projectile wars against Dee Jay. Worse startup would make it easier for characters to jump and punish the Max Out and Ryu would stand to benefit *greatly* from that.
    Onaje Everett
    Still in S.D., representing the Almighty.
    READ MY FAQ!!! (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/file/939066/56195)
  • FreshOJFreshOJ It's the God in me.. Joined: Posts: 1,485
    Blanka: Completely buff his super.It's shit, and nobody falls for the "hold the button to delay it" trick.So many characters can just spam crouching jab on reaction once they see it start up, and will beat it clean.Take away the slow startup and make it come out instantly and travel around the same speed as dictator or honda's super instead but be somewhat vulnerable on block.

    If you try to use Blanka's Grand Shave Roll SC to catch people off-guard from more than their optimal poking range, it'll never work that way. Instead, use it the way it's intended...to anti-air any jump in and to catch limbs. As long as your opponent touches Blanka while he's in that forward bounce, they'll get popped up for you to juggle them. It's effective horizontal range may be short, but it is useful. (Just not as useful as other supers that are out there, though.)

    I think Blanka would be **really** scary if he had his "Direct Lightning" (Was that the name? I forget.) Souped Up Horizontal Ball SC from CvS2. (Note how good that super made him in that game.) It would probably be even more scary good than a Shinkuu Hadouken or Crazy Buffalo! I don't think that would be a good thing, personally. Maybe the solution is to make Blanka bounce further forward for the beginning of the Grand Shave Roll? Maybe the distance of a Short "Rainbow" Roll? *shrug*
    Onaje Everett
    Still in S.D., representing the Almighty.
    READ MY FAQ!!! (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/file/939066/56195)
  • TschesaeTschesae Joined: Posts: 178
    We should do a meeting with some software programmers and test through this shit for some days => that would really help us improving the balancing even more
  • KhiempossibleKhiempossible NAGEHAME User Joined: Posts: 3,254
    blanka's new super works fine. anti airing people for 40% + safe chip and positioning on wakeup is perfectly fine. It'll even psychic punish fireballs from half screen. yomi!
    "Win when you can; lose when you have to; but always play cheap" - Familyman
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