Red Pantie Addict Anonymous: Sakura General Discussion!

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  • InfiniteGravityInfiniteGravity Joined: Posts: 13

    The title of this thread is sexist, good thing the post was made by a mod.
  • unwndunwnd Joined: Posts: 451
    Two more 50/50s after ex.tatsu in the corner that are unaffected by DWU

    Sagat: dash fwd, fireball, j.hp (non crossup)/j.mk (crossup) 50/50 (if no quickrise whiff cl.mp and repeat 50/50)

    Guile: dash fwd, fireball, j.hk (non crossup)/j.mk (crossup) 50/50 (if no quickrise whiff cl.mp and repeat 50/50)

    You lose some damage by ending the combo in fireball rather than otoshi but I guess it's worth it in exchange for a true 50/50.

    If you didn't see my other post a while back then the Sagat 50/50 also works on Fei, Yun and Yang, pretty sure there's similar setups on other chars but I really haven't been playing much lately and cba to hit the lab and find them.
  • CallistoCallisto Level 3 Fireball Trap Queen Joined: Posts: 1,605
    I probably need to work some corner stuff back in but I've pretty much abandoned everything that isn't fireball trap or late j.hp/hk > cr.lk passthrough, lol. I've started to feel like losing corner control just isn't worth it in a lot of matchups.

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  • unwndunwnd Joined: Posts: 451
    edited January 2015
    Yeah I don't go for any of the old 50/50 / unblockables anymore because it's a guess if they DWU and if I guess wrong I put my self in the corner and get no oki.

    Also that Sagat setup works on Seth/Dudley and if they don't quickrise it's an unblockable j.hp.
  • unwndunwnd Joined: Posts: 451
    edited January 2015
    Backdash option select for El Fuerte/Cody: cr.lk OS cr.mk, hits them in grounded recovery frames so you can visually confirm the backdash and cancel into srk.
  • CallistoCallisto Level 3 Fireball Trap Queen Joined: Posts: 1,605
    Have you been able to get it to where the CR.MK comes out soon enough to catch the dash, but you don't get it so soon that you can't block EX QBomb? It seems like you have to make a choice between one or the other.

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  • InfiniteGravityInfiniteGravity Joined: Posts: 13
    unwnd wrote: »
    Yeah I don't go for any of the old 50/50 / unblockables anymore because it's a guess if they DWU and if I guess wrong I put my self in the corner and get no oki.

    Also that Sagat setup works on Seth/Dudley and if they don't quickrise it's an unblockable j.hp.

    I consider those movements are still worth using, whenever you need that dmg fast and your opp is stopping every of your plays.
  • unwndunwnd Joined: Posts: 451
    edited January 2015
    Callisto wrote: »
    Have you been able to get it to where the CR.MK comes out soon enough to catch the dash, but you don't get it so soon that you can't block EX QBomb? It seems like you have to make a choice between one or the other.

    Yeah I don't think you can make it safe from ex.qbomb AND catch the backdash, anyway that is more of a meterless OS for Fuerte (unless you know the player in particular like to backdash a lot) because Fuerte has such good wakeup options with meter it isn't worth going for, I think it loses to ex.run, ex.qbomb and lets him out for free if he does ex.leg throw.

    I generally go for meaty cr.lk on Fuerte's wakeup if he has meter so it's safe from ex.qbomb wakeup and I can try to react if I see an ex.run with either a focus or a block if I think he will splash or jump back.hk if I think he will throw, I think I need to go into training and see if there's something else I can do in that situation to counter ex.run because otherwise it's kind of a guessing game, if I could find something that beats both ex.qbomb AND ex.run it would be nice because that shuts down a large part of his wakeup.

    Post edited by unwnd on
  • CallistoCallisto Level 3 Fireball Trap Queen Joined: Posts: 1,605
    Yeah, usually I just go for meaty lights while downbacking without OSing the backdash since his backdash recovers so quickly, then if I see ex run absorb I just do jumpback HK, he gets out for free if he does nothing after run but it stuffs splash/propeller and given his low health I'd rather just let him stand up than risk getting knocked down myself.

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  • CallistoCallisto Level 3 Fireball Trap Queen Joined: Posts: 1,605
    Hey guys, I'm hoping to wrap up my tutorial over the weekend and I wanted to include links for other youtube channels with Sakura tips/tricks, if you or someone else has a channel I should include can you point it out?

    So far I have:

    Galiardi
    Myers
    Shano
    Leggo
    Foxx

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  • 0sh0sh AKA Vadsamoht Joined: Posts: 537
    Are you looking for channels of players or people that post tech, etc.?
    SFIV: Sakura (Poison?) | Skullgirls: Fortune/Bella | LB2: Yuki/Hibiki
  • CallistoCallisto Level 3 Fireball Trap Queen Joined: Posts: 1,605
    More towards people that post tech. I'm keeping the tutorial to mostly beginners stuff, e.g. showing 1-2 common safe jumps then adding a note of 'for more safe jumps, see Shano's blahbla *link*" and just trying to offer as many options as possible.

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  • 0sh0sh AKA Vadsamoht Joined: Posts: 537
    Yeah I did a search and didn't get much - most stuff is either match videos or only 1-2 videos on sakura amid tons of other videos.
    SFIV: Sakura (Poison?) | Skullgirls: Fortune/Bella | LB2: Yuki/Hibiki
  • unwndunwnd Joined: Posts: 451
    edited February 2015
    I think ex.tatsu buff makes it so you cant get any crossup ex.tatsu setups in the corner off backthrows, it just stays spinning in front of them til they rise. I noticed though that after backthrow in the corner you can jump fwd, lk.tatsu. It catches both normal and DWU and blows up people who try to stand/crouch tech on normal wakeup, if they DWU the tatsu is also slightly meaty (+2 on block I think), as a bonus it also causes Decapre's stinger to miss if she DWUs.
  • CallistoCallisto Level 3 Fireball Trap Queen Joined: Posts: 1,605
    edited February 2015
    Nice, I had found a 4f safe jump off it but I couldn't tell if tapdown made it consistent or if it had to be manual microstep back, that's a good option.

    Also barf @ EVO PS4 announcement, I having to adjust Tatsu loop timings between versions.

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  • TheBlackHombreTheBlackHombre Aesthetic Joined: Posts: 1,659
    Callisto wrote: »
    Nice, I had found a 4f safe jump off it but I couldn't tell if tapdown made it consistent or if it had to be manual microstep back, that's a good option.

    Also barf @ EVO PS4 announcement, I having to adjust Tatsu loop timings between versions.
    It's not that hard to adjust honestly. I can play ps3, 360, and pc version without a hitch; just takes a few games of playing to adjust.
  • CallistoCallisto Level 3 Fireball Trap Queen Joined: Posts: 1,605
    idk for some reason it's brutal for me; it can take me at least a few hours if not more. I think I rely on visual cues too much for them, lol

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  • unwndunwnd Joined: Posts: 451
    edited February 2015
    I only just realised if Honda does cr.jab xx hp.hands and the hands don't fully connect (common at max cr.lp range) then you can punish on block AND hit, mp.srk/far.hk/cr.mk all punish and you can even punish with raw u1. Also if you aren't sure that the last hits of hands will whiff you may aswell attempt the punish anyway because you'll just end up blocking/get hit if they don't whiff.
  • TheBlackHombreTheBlackHombre Aesthetic Joined: Posts: 1,659


    Shano with some tech! This is something I never truly utilized in my gameplay because I didn't know what worked on what character.
  • CallistoCallisto Level 3 Fireball Trap Queen Joined: Posts: 1,605
    edited March 2015


    Apparently you can't CL.HP xx H.Tatsu vs Honda, lol. Also happens vs. Dan, but just those two.

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  • TheBlackHombreTheBlackHombre Aesthetic Joined: Posts: 1,659
    Thanks @shano again for the video. Towards the last half of the video, most of the "punishes" weren't really punishes since you did the air tatsu's preemptively. Regardless though, I'm gonna start using the neutral jump kara ex tatsu to punish people whiffing normals similar to how divekick characters play mindgames by neutral jumping.
  • funkiefunkie Become flawless or die trying. Joined: Posts: 190
    edited March 2015
    @Callisto
    You got mine
    www.youtube.com/user/funkiesan/videos
    Post edited by funkie on
    thyenote3.png
  • 0sh0sh AKA Vadsamoht Joined: Posts: 537
    Not counting frametraps to catch opponents during prejump, what would be the best way to catch an opponent that is trying to jump out or pressure in the corner? st.MK?
    SFIV: Sakura (Poison?) | Skullgirls: Fortune/Bella | LB2: Yuki/Hibiki
  • CallistoCallisto Level 3 Fireball Trap Queen Joined: Posts: 1,605
    L.Shou. If you hit them higher up you can convert it to L.Otoshi.

    Alternatively, level 2 Hado, that'll let you juggle after if they come down on top of it.

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  • TheBlackHombreTheBlackHombre Aesthetic Joined: Posts: 1,659
    I should start using that more often, I try to air to air with jump back MP typically. I AA like nobody's business with lp dp > mp dp midscreen though
  • unwndunwnd Joined: Posts: 451
    edited April 2015
    I went into training and found the characters that cr.lk OS cr.mk hits grounded so you can get a full combo by cancelling it into srk if they backdash. On some characters a perfectly meaty cr.lk and fastest possible chain with OS will catch them airborne so delay either the initial cr.lk or the chain and it will hit all the characters listed.

    Cr.lk, cr.lp~cr.mk OS (hits grounded) xx srk

    Can do off perfect meaty and fastest chain (slight delay works too):
    Zangief, Gouken, Cody, Fuerte, T.Hawk, Dee Jay, Adon

    Needs very slight delay on either the cr.lk OR the chain :
    Ryu, Ken, E.Honda, Akuma, Sakura, Oni, Abel, M.Bison (can also block EX PC), Rolento (beats hop back too), Poison


    I haven't really used this much in real games but it doesn't seem too hard to confirm their backdash and cancel the cr.mk. As you can see it's decent vs M.Bison especially as you can do this OS and still block reversals. Also I was surprised it caught Poison because I thought she had a gdlk backdash lol.

    Not sure if anyone will use this really but in theory it's pretty much the optimal OS for backdashes outside of U1 and it's always nice to play theoryfighter :^).
  • CallistoCallisto Level 3 Fireball Trap Queen Joined: Posts: 1,605
    It seems everywhere ever has the startup for Haru Ichiban listed wrong. Brady guide shows 6 for M/H versions and 7 for LK versions, SRK Wiki and FATool show 7 all-around for all 3. I tested several -6 moves yesterday and could reliably punish them with all three versions of reversal super, I'm pretty sure it's 6f startup on all three.

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  • LeggoLeggo Joined: Posts: 196


    Video I made on S.HK resets
  • unwndunwnd Joined: Posts: 451
    edited May 2015
    Nice vid man, this would definitely come in handy for closing out a game when you have meter to burn.

    You can also do a similar setup meterless by doing an early j.lk reset after ex.tatsu and walking forward a little then jumping and you'll get the reverse jump shenanigans, but it's harder to do than this version and also does less damage since you use j.lk instead of cl.hk. Also I don't think you can get an empty jump lk off that setup whereas with yours its almost a 50/50 but needs 2 meters so like I said it would be good to close out rounds or if you were in the last round in need of a big comeback or something.
  • shanoshano Joined: Posts: 284
    Very good stuff Leggo.
  • NinjaSpyNinjaSpy A Magical Liopleurodon Joined: Posts: 64
    Might be the wrong place to ask, but I'll try.

    What are people's opinions on how strong Sakura is in Ultra now? I picked her up in 2012, but didn't really get "good" with her until Ultra times (was mainly on Ryu for the majority of my early SF4 days), so I never really played with j.hp or hard knockdown setups then.

    Personally, having mained her for a good chunk of Ultra now, I feel she can barely be considered as strong as she once was (when I was hearing she was top 10 material). She is just too one dimensional as a character. Yes, all it takes is the right cr.mk, the correct jump in, or a yolo ex tatsu, but thats all she is. In fact, I think she relies too heavily on cr.mk to get anything started, and against characters with good footsies she has a hard time ever getting any momentum going. You also need to be fairly on-point with her links also, which is a thing.

    No doubt her up-close pressure is amazing. Without that, she wouldn't be viable.

    Maybe in the days when j.hp beat legitimate anti-airs she was a bigger threat since people had to respect her jump in much more, but with that weakened I feel she just doesn't have enough solid options to get in. An above average ground approach with a meh air approach means less the opponent has to worry about. Not to mention her bad wake-up game; she is almost as screwed hard if the opponent is going in on her as much as they are if she is going in on them.

    Give her a solid fireball like Ryu's and I'd flip the script on everything. But that would be broken (or called Evil Ryu).
  • shanoshano Joined: Posts: 284
    Shes not top tier imo but she is still good man. It's just harder now because no more free corner escape tatsus, j.hp slightly weaker, ex tatsu +2 from +4, air tatsus midscreen to bait anti airs is not as reliable now, u2 to catch crossups pretty much gone, dwu(obviously), etc etc.

    If they fixed her EX DP getting blocked after first hit when going through a Fireball at a decent range then she would be really really good imo.

    She got great meterless damage, great stun, amazing anti air in cr.hp(problem is she does not get rewarded well for anti airing in terms of damage and stuff like some other chars do for example Ryu DP FADC Ultra), good mixups, yeah her footsie game is pretty predictable, backdash aint the greatest, good frametraps, ex hadouken buff is nice, st.hp buff is cool but very limited in use due to the startup.

    I wouldn't change her hadouken to be like Ryu's it would make her too good imo. Maybe adjust the recovery frames slightly or make her hadou go fullscreen is all i would change.

    So for buffs i feel all she really needs is EX DP fix and maybe a slight buff on her hadou recovery wouldn't hurt.
  • CallistoCallisto Level 3 Fireball Trap Queen Joined: Posts: 1,605
    Sakura is upper-mid, but that is a very compressed part of the list and the reasons she isn't higher has more to do with other characters' strengths than her weaknesses. Ultra is much more ground-based than AE, and she is one of very few characters that can turn a far range whiff punish into 400 damage and 500 stun.

    IMO this is the strongest version of her to exist when not accounting for what delayed wakeup did to the overall game. All she really needs is for Shouoken to be properly fixed. Her bad wakeup is her tradeoff for her offensive power; she still has all the tools in the world to keep from getting knocked down in the first place if you play solid. I really enjoy where she's at now, the way she requires a mix of old school footsies and new school execution.

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  • shanoshano Joined: Posts: 284
    Yeah pretty much, shes fine as is and very well balanced apart from her EX Shouken getting blocked on hit when reading a projectile at mid range.
  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,021
    edited May 2015
    You know how people joke that there are "25 characters in the top 10"? Sakura feels like one of those characters to me. She's not exceptional in this version, but she's definitely a force to be reckoned with. Not many characters have her damage potential, and very few have the option to reliably land said damage from a whiff punish. Her offensive game is very strong, obviously, both in terms of options and rewards. Her buttons are good and cover most bases in neutral. Her wakeup is pretty bad, but that's just something you have to live with.

    She feels like a character that requires you to play well with to win. At the same time, she actually rewards you very well if you play well, which is more than enough to offset her weaknesses in my opinion. She has no truly terrible matchups either, as far as I know.

    tldr: she's a good character.
  • NinjaSpyNinjaSpy A Magical Liopleurodon Joined: Posts: 64
    That ex.dp thing still whiffing on predicted fireball at midscreen still makes me sad.

    I've just been focusing on her negatives recently, so my post may have given the impression that I think she is worse than I actually believe. I definitely agree; she is too good to just be mid with the potential reward she gives when you actually get in. I always feel I can win if I can land one cr.mk.

    She doesn't need any dramatic buffs to make her really good. Some tweaks to frame data or some slight hitbox extensions and she could be amazing. I do believe she could use a slight buff, but no idea in what way to make it both relevant and not broken.
  • unwndunwnd Joined: Posts: 451
    edited May 2015
    I really think she's somewhere in the middle, there are just so many good characters now that it's hard placing her above 30 other characters, no doubt she's still good and very viable though.
  • NinjaSpyNinjaSpy A Magical Liopleurodon Joined: Posts: 64
    edited May 2015
    Edit: deleted. Just moved question to question thread.
  • JoeyJarsJoeyJars Joined: Posts: 100
    I hate that ex shoryu doesnt fully connect through fireballs sometimes, I still get screwed by it and am dumbfounded when it misses... My biggest struggle is defense, against some characters I just can't protect my air space , especially ones that can change their air trajectory. That and constant safe jump pressure. I don't think she is really strong here, could just be me though. Usually makes me switch to my more experienced Dee jay :(
  • CallistoCallisto Level 3 Fireball Trap Queen Joined: Posts: 1,605
    That's sort of the point of her design; if she had great defense in addition to the massive damage and stun she'd pretty busted. The important thing is to remember all of the tools you have available; CR.HP will lose to people using things that change their jump arc, but that extra time they have to spend in the air means whatever they're doing will probably get smashed by NJ.MP.

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  • 0sh0sh AKA Vadsamoht Joined: Posts: 537
    edited May 2015
    I always see people mention how busted EX Shou is, but why is it that I'm the only one who finds the same issue with EX tatsu just as annoying? I never see anyone else asking for changes on that.

    I've actually dropped SFIV so it makes little difference to me in the long run, but only asking for once change means that you're only ever likely to get that one change.
    SFIV: Sakura (Poison?) | Skullgirls: Fortune/Bella | LB2: Yuki/Hibiki
  • NinjaSpyNinjaSpy A Magical Liopleurodon Joined: Posts: 64
    ex.tatsu generally doesn't whiff as bad as ex shou. Also, you don't often use tatsu to punish fireball, whereas ex shouken looks tailor made to beat fireballs. When you want it, tatsu generally gives you results while shouken basically never does (unless you're close enough for cr.mk, which is generally a range players don't throw as much fireballs, and your cr.mk is the better threat). ex shouken can only really be a hail mary wakeup option, or a risky frame trap that leads to damage (for 3 meter), when it could be a fantastic part of Sakura's main game plan (punish bad fireballs). Ex tatsu is currently a "get in your face" free card or a good combo extender, both of which it does very well. It can sometimes punish things, which is when it could start whiffing, but that isn't its main purpose (at least imo).

    Plus, a whiffed ex tatsu is +2 on block, while whiffed shouken equals full punish.

    Simply put, I don't have much experiences where a bad ex tatsu ruined me too bad, while I vividly remember reacting to fireball and losing because of it.
  • 0sh0sh AKA Vadsamoht Joined: Posts: 537
    I find EX tatsu to be particularly useful against Ryu/E.Ryu when your opponent is playing a heavy fireball/cr.MK game because it goes over both of those options if you get a read, and the drop isn't so bad if all they do is block after the drop (as you said you're at frame advantage, can frametrap/throw, etc.) but the thing is that in my experience people just blocking the EX tatsu isn't always what happens - I've lost against quite a few Ryu/E.Ryu players that have won because of my EX tatsu over a fireball only hitting with the first hit, and them then getting a DP FADC'd into ultra/combo/their own wakeup pressure. Shou is easier to punish because you can just wait for it to end, but even without meter you can pretty reliably DP her out of tatsu it if it drops (and if it doesn't you were eating the move anyway, so nothing lost for trying).

    I agree that EX Shou is by far the greater concern, I just don't see why people only complain about the one move when ideally capcom would fix both.
    SFIV: Sakura (Poison?) | Skullgirls: Fortune/Bella | LB2: Yuki/Hibiki
  • shanoshano Joined: Posts: 284
    @0sh On the subject of EX Tatsu i just made this video showing all the chars she can launch from round start distance. :)


    Ryu, Ken, Evil Ryu, Sakura, Rose are sketchy to do against depending on distance.
  • unwndunwnd Joined: Posts: 451
    I find ex.sho really useful against Poison because of the way the hurtbox on her fireballs are, and Poison players are usually content to spam fireball from any range like they're unbeatable. You can literally hold forward vs her and react to the fireball startup with ex.sho from a pretty decent range, similar to how gief uses ex.green hand. But in general the move is fucking awful at what it does, I've had Vega players meaty me with a point blank cr.mp when I wake up ex.sho and the 2nd rep gets blocked FROM POINT BLANK RANGE.

    It DEFINITELY should have some sort of vacuum effect or something to guarantee full hits if the first rep connects, and that's not even going into the fact that it needs 3 bars to be made safe, is useless against airborne opponents AND is 12f startup so a lot characters can safely meaty you with an OS behind it to practically shut down your entire wakeup.

    In a perfect world (realistically) it'd be ~10f startup with the guaranteed full hits but I seriously doubt there will be any more changes to the game at this point, it's a shame it didn't get some sort of buff when Ultra/1.04 dropped seeing as how good few characters got decent buffs to their reversals (e.g. Gouken, Cody, Juri, Fuerte, Dee Jay, Ibuki, Abel), anyway it's definitely not useless and it converts into MAJOR damage if you land it but i'm still gonna curse Capcom every time it drops that 2nd rep.
  • shanoshano Joined: Posts: 284
    @unwnd But they did buff EX Shouken in the Arcade build then they reverted it when Console version dropped.
  • unwndunwnd Joined: Posts: 451
    Lol did they really? I didn't even know that, I don't know what they did to it but clearly Sak was just broken with a properly functioning ex.sho I guess...
  • shanoshano Joined: Posts: 284
    Yeah EX Shouken full hits on Ryu at just over round start distance.



    Was stoked was the first thing i tried when i got USF4 lol lets just say i was bit salty haha.
  • TOLUNGTOLUNG Joined: Posts: 3
    Overall, she is still very good, her damage output with cr MK make her never a bottom tier. Always get a comeback chance.

    But fighting Ryu is quite hard nowadays. Ryu fireball is so fast that if you absorb the fireball with SA, you have to retreat. If you go for dash forward, you will get hit by another fireball. While at that distance, you have to read for an ex tatsu/h. tatsu, but sometimes the 3rd hit of H. Tatsu will WHIFF, and Ryu get a free punish afterward.
    If you react to the fireball with EX DP, unluckily your second part of the DP will be blocked, no matter what.

    I'll see the H. Tatsu/Ex DP whiff are design fault which shall be properly fixed.

    IMO fixing Ex DP will be very sufficient to make her more solid (but not OP), either add a vacuum on first part, or lengthen the hitbox of the second part will do the trick.

    And it will be happy to see the Omega Tatsu followup kick can be added too, which can result a better damage output when you read a fireball, instead of just 60 damage :)
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