"Critique My Akuma!" Video Blog Thread

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  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Drunken Akuma Joined: Posts: 6,905
    Tornado throw is 5 frame startup. 2 frames to attack him him from the air, 2 frames to recover, 5th frame demon activates. If your safe jump is tight it will lose to demon.

    Dang Shin beat me to it.

    Yep in my experience a well timed safe jump OS U1 beats out everything Abel has. Back Dash, Roll, Sky Drop, T-Throw, etc all lose to it in one way or another.
    Under stress you will not rise to your expectations, you will fall to your level of training.
  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Drunken Akuma Joined: Posts: 6,905
    EX tornado throw will beat it though, right? Because if that's the case and I was an Abel player, I'd risk throwing that out every once in a while once Akuma has U1 because there's a big chance they'll go for a normal jump-in OS.

    It's actually still risky to go for that because if I choose to go for the grab you are screwed. In fact DF grab is really good against Abel since it catches several of his options.
    Under stress you will not rise to your expectations, you will fall to your level of training.
  • metallicabandmetallicaband DP & A TELEPORT ?!! Joined: Posts: 2,330
    It's actually still risky to go for that because if I choose to go for the grab you are screwed. In fact DF grab is really good against Abel since it catches several of his options.
    Yeah it's very risky since Akuma players love to abuse that DF grab vs him lol, dive kick rapes it as well (pretty sure a late dive kick is safer than DF grab because if they backdashed = free TT now that the grab has recovery), but if EX TT does work vs the OS U1, it's still at the very least an option other than being forced to block every time.

    Can you guys please go to training mode and verify that j.hk/DF palm OS U1 beats Abel's EX TT? I just tried a 4frame setup (sweep > instant dive kick OS U1, pretty sure I timed it right because the setup whiffs on Cammy who gets up a frame slower) and still got caught by the EX TT. The only thing I can imagine that I'm messing up is timing the OS input.
    Shin Akuma V-Trigger Kreygasm, make it happen Capcom .
    Vanilla SF4 > AE 2012: Main: Akuma | Alt: Bison
  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    I can't get it to work either, so maybe it does hit any safe jumped OS?
    Who's cuisine reigns supreme?!

    "Well I guess the future is rape and no one can stop it."
  • metallicabandmetallicaband DP & A TELEPORT ?!! Joined: Posts: 2,330
    I can't get it to work either, so maybe it does hit any safe jumped OS?
    I don't know much about the properties of landing and jumping frames, but if it means anything after doing a non-OS safejump (both 4f and 5f timings) and holding up, I still got thrown by EX TT.

    Also everything I checked was via the training mode dummy, so I'm not 100% sure if it'll be any different if done vs a real opponent, but I think it'll most likely be the same.

    EDIT:
    Tornado throw is 5 frame startup. 2 frames to attack him him from the air, 2 frames to recover, 5th frame demon activates. If your safe jump is tight it will lose to demon.
    Aren't landing recovery frames supposed to be 4 instead of 2 if you did an attack in the air or did I misunderstood what you said?
    Shin Akuma V-Trigger Kreygasm, make it happen Capcom .
    Vanilla SF4 > AE 2012: Main: Akuma | Alt: Bison
  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    EDIT:
    Aren't landing recovery frames supposed to be 4 instead of 2 if you did an attack in the air or did I misunderstood what you said?

    I'm pretty sure it two if you attack and zero if you don't. If it was 4 you could never safe jump a 5 frame reversal.
    Who's cuisine reigns supreme?!

    "Well I guess the future is rape and no one can stop it."
  • metallicabandmetallicaband DP & A TELEPORT ?!! Joined: Posts: 2,330
    I'm pretty sure it two if you attack and zero if you don't. If it was 4 you could never safe jump a 5 frame reversal.

    I was editing my post as you replied, will just do a new post:

    So I did some more searching to learn about the landing recovery frames properties and got the info from SRK's wiki pages (http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Street_Fighter_IV/Game_Systems/Landing_Frames_Trip_Guard).

    Here's what I understood so far and someone please correct me if I'm wrong:

    So when you perform a jump-in attack, there are 4 landing frames, you can't do shit on the first 2 and that's why 3 frame SRK's are impossible to safejump. It says that you you can block on the 3rd and 4th landing frames which is why we're able to safejump 4 frame reversals, but it also mentions that you can't special cancel or do Anything else but block during these 2 frames, since EX TT is a throw so it can't be blocked, is that the reason why it's beating the safejump?

    An example of a perfect 4frame safejump vs Abel's EX TT:

    Last active frame of Akuma's j.hk (or DF palm) > 1st frame of EX TT
    landing frame 1 > 2nd frame of EX TT
    landing frame 2 > 3rd frame of EX TT
    landing frame 3 (can block only) > 4th frame of EX TT
    landing frame 4 (can block only) > 5th frame and EX TT got active so you get grabbed because you can't do anything but block

    3 frame normal reversals are impossible to safejump as we already know, but when it comes to grab attacks, it seems like 1-5 frame startup grab moves are impossible to beat with normal safejumps if they have enough hit invincibility frames and get active after you land (i.e I tried with Gief 0 frame U1 it got active while I'm still in the air so it didn't work, even though the frame data says it has 3 active frames).

    For example these moves seem impossible to safejump normally:

    - Gief & Hawk's EX SPDs, they both have 4 frames of startup
    - Makoto EX grab, 5 frame startup but vulnerable to palm since it has armor
    - Akuma's U1, 4 frame startup

    These will lose if you delayed your jump-in on purpose so you'd hit them out after the hit invincibility frames are gone, but I don't think that can technically be considered as a safejump, because if the opponent has other normal relatively fast reversals, you'll lose to them.

    Also there are some moves in the game like Ibuki's U1 or Rog's U2 grabs, I'm pretty sure these are impossible to safejump if you did a perfect 4f safejump, but they have like 1 frame of invincibility so they will lose to jump-in's that aren't done as fast as possible (i.e 5f safejumps which is what most people time usually anyway).

    Again, if I said anything wrong please correct me guys because I don't want to confuse people with false information lol.
    Shin Akuma V-Trigger Kreygasm, make it happen Capcom .
    Vanilla SF4 > AE 2012: Main: Akuma | Alt: Bison
  • C2QC2Q Joined: Posts: 1,167
    Alright guys. This is my first upload of a replay. Still figuring out video settings but the quality seems good enough. Feel free to rip me apart.

  • VeNOM2099VeNOM2099 Step into my parlour Joined: Posts: 985
    Alright guys. This is my first upload of a replay. Still figuring out video settings but the quality seems good enough. Feel free to rip me apart.


    Not bad. Your opponent was pretty straight forward though and I believe you could've punished more of his jump ins with AA SRK or cr. HP. The only thing I can say is: Why did you FA crumple him after a Dizzy then do U1? Should've done the Ultra naked for more damage (maybe even the win).
    "Did I ever tell you... The definition of insanity?..."
    - Vaas (Far Cry 3)
  • C2QC2Q Joined: Posts: 1,167
    Thanks for the comments. Here are 2 more matches against a decent Ibuki player. I have 0 matchup experience against ibuki since i just started playing ssf4. Please comment



  • rugirugi original 09'er Joined: Posts: 1,730
    hey everyone I uploaded some new commentaries with akuma discussions on 50/50 mixups and some other stuff.. Some people have said they enjoyed it so i figured i'd post it here.

    http://www.youtube.com/rugiohhhh

    stop by and check them out, I'll post a new set focusing on some more akuma stuff later tonight.
    "Everybody wild monkeys until that banana clip peel." - Tsu-Surf
    "md cvs2 scene doesn't own a copy of cvs2" - 4r5
  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    Rugi, you gonna be at Evo this year?
    Who's cuisine reigns supreme?!

    "Well I guess the future is rape and no one can stop it."
  • rugirugi original 09'er Joined: Posts: 1,730
    afraid not man, i don't have the money for it this year.
    "Everybody wild monkeys until that banana clip peel." - Tsu-Surf
    "md cvs2 scene doesn't own a copy of cvs2" - 4r5
  • VeNOM2099VeNOM2099 Step into my parlour Joined: Posts: 985
    hey everyone I uploaded some new commentaries with akuma discussions on 50/50 mixups and some other stuff.. Some people have said they enjoyed it so i figured i'd post it here.

    http://www.youtube.com/rugiohhhh

    stop by and check them out, I'll post a new set focusing on some more akuma stuff later tonight.

    Heh! I was checking out youtube on my GalaxyS when I happened to catch your videos and I was so happy that you're playing Akuma again! I'll have to re-watch the last two vids where you go into the D-Jay matchup as that's one of my worst ones...
    "Did I ever tell you... The definition of insanity?..."
    - Vaas (Far Cry 3)
  • ClxJamesClxJames Still A Beginner... Joined: Posts: 2,548
    Your video on the Dee Jay match up has helped me immensely. I suppose I just had to realize you cant Vortex him and have to beat him in the ground game
    Not all 09's are created equally - http://www.youtube.com/user/SheltonShenanigans
  • metallicabandmetallicaband DP & A TELEPORT ?!! Joined: Posts: 2,330
    Your video on the Dee Jay match up has helped me immensely. I suppose I just had to realize you cant Vortex him and have to beat him in the ground game
    Why wouldn't you be able to vortex him? Yeah his 4frame EX upckicks is a very good AA on wakeup, but Deejay is tatsu sweepable and after that Akuma can safejump his 4frame reversal with instant jump command dive kick, those are very good options to vortex him IMO.
    Shin Akuma V-Trigger Kreygasm, make it happen Capcom .
    Vanilla SF4 > AE 2012: Main: Akuma | Alt: Bison
  • dr4gz0rdr4gz0r My body can't take it Joined: Posts: 729
    Why wouldn't you be able to vortex him? Yeah his 4frame EX upckicks is a very good AA on wakeup, but Deejay is tatsu sweepable and after that Akuma can safejump his 4frame reversal with instant jump command dive kick, those are very good options to vortex him IMO.

    Mhh if the only thing we can do is safejumping with D+MK (how's his wakeup? if that's standard and that safejump is a 1framer, then it's even risky), our vortex is pretty much gone I'd say. I mean, you're just baiting stuff, that's not supposed to happen frequently against a good player - especially after you safejump them the first time.

    I played only a few matches against decent DJs, but not having hit the lab and lacking knowledge of the matchup, it as successiful to me to just play solid with fireball and groundgame. His air normals are ridicolous too, j.LK has like what, 12 active frames? That thing seems unbeatable at times lol.
    Go home and be a family demon.
  • rugirugi original 09'er Joined: Posts: 1,730
    Why wouldn't you be able to vortex him? Yeah his 4frame EX upckicks is a very good AA on wakeup, but Deejay is tatsu sweepable and after that Akuma can safejump his 4frame reversal with instant jump command dive kick, those are very good options to vortex him IMO.

    One of the fundamental things about vortex (at least to me) is that for every option there has to be an equally safe alternative option in terms of mixup. Even though 4 frame reversals are technically safe jumpable, it is nearly impossible to perform 4 frame safejumps with a high rate of precision as you could with a 5 frame dp. Sure you could set up a frame perfect command divekick for the same side, but what's to make him afraid of it if he knows thats your one and only option? Theoretically you COULD set up a crossup safejump against him but again, getting a 1 frame safejump is extremely difficult and not worth the risk in my opinion.
    "Everybody wild monkeys until that banana clip peel." - Tsu-Surf
    "md cvs2 scene doesn't own a copy of cvs2" - 4r5
  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    Let's face it, most vortex mix up options are not safe or easily avoidable. DF throw? Unsafe as hell and avoidable. X-up tatsu? Pretty easy to auto correct DP in most scenarios. Cross over palm? Eats spammy DPs.

    The point is the vortex is about establishing unpunishable and difficult to escape pressure with potential OS back up to force your opponent into a block. Once they choose to block then you can open them up with the other options. DeeJay is not different. Unlike 90% of the rest of the cast at least we have an easy and 100% safe setup to pressure him. It is the fear of this setup that allows you to use your other options.

    And if DeeJay chooses not to block.....he hits you with his up kicks. Oh well. At least he doesn't get to tack on an ultra like Ryu, Viper, Sagat....etc.
    Who's cuisine reigns supreme?!

    "Well I guess the future is rape and no one can stop it."
  • MuaythaiFanMuaythaiFan Jackpot! Joined: Posts: 50
    Thanks for the comments. Here are 2 more matches against a decent Ibuki player. I have 0 matchup experience against ibuki since i just started playing ssf4. Please comment



    gotta get those anti airs when she jumps in! a few hints when ur fighting ibuki
    1.when she gets a hard knock down on you and trys kunai mix up. On you're wake up focus to take the kunai n dash out, Ibuki can os Neck breaker on you're teleport even tho she didn't do it. Practice that in training mode. comes in handy vs a good Ibuki player
    2. you can safe jump her on wake up she has a 5frame start up on her Dragon kick even ex dragon kick. oh and if you safe jump her n she does an Ex dragon kick most of the time they'll throw a kunai right after. so after you block the ex dragon kick focus absorb kunai dash and punish accordingly.
    3.her double head stomp is very noticeable over all @1:55 in ur first video block high Focus to absorb kunai dash forward and punish accordingly.
    4. when you use Cr.med punch in a block string say for instance you do Cr.jab-Cr.jab-Cr.strong wait like 1sec then do another Cr.strong to catch them pressing a button to get a counter hit to sweep works very well. try to incorporate that in you're game play.
    5. Get down Os sweep to catch Back dashes on wake up.
  • metallicabandmetallicaband DP & A TELEPORT ?!! Joined: Posts: 2,330
    Let's face it, most vortex mix up options are not safe or easily avoidable. DF throw? Unsafe as hell and avoidable. X-up tatsu? Pretty easy to auto correct DP in most scenarios. Cross over palm? Eats spammy DPs.

    The point is the vortex is about establishing unpunishable and difficult to escape pressure with potential OS back up to force your opponent into a block. Once they choose to block then you can open them up with the other options. DeeJay is not different. Unlike 90% of the rest of the cast at least we have an easy and 100% safe setup to pressure him. It is the fear of this setup that allows you to use your other options.

    And if DeeJay chooses not to block.....he hits you with his up kicks. Oh well. At least he doesn't get to tack on an ultra like Ryu, Viper, Sagat....etc.

    What Shin said, couldn't have said it better myself.

    Being able to tatsu > sweep a character alone screams "Vortex" IMO, even a simple empty jump late cr.tech OS can open up the opponent to the rest of your options if he was punished once, let alone a true safejump that gives you free pressure even if he blocked.
    Shin Akuma V-Trigger Kreygasm, make it happen Capcom .
    Vanilla SF4 > AE 2012: Main: Akuma | Alt: Bison
  • dr4gz0rdr4gz0r My body can't take it Joined: Posts: 729
    Let's face it, most vortex mix up options are not safe or easily avoidable. DF throw? Unsafe as hell and avoidable. X-up tatsu? Pretty easy to auto correct DP in most scenarios. Cross over palm? Eats spammy DPs.

    The point is the vortex is about establishing unpunishable and difficult to escape pressure with potential OS back up to force your opponent into a block. Once they choose to block then you can open them up with the other options. DeeJay is not different. Unlike 90% of the rest of the cast at least we have an easy and 100% safe setup to pressure him. It is the fear of this setup that allows you to use your other options.

    And if DeeJay chooses not to block.....he hits you with his up kicks. Oh well. At least he doesn't get to tack on an ultra like Ryu, Viper, Sagat....etc.

    I cannot agree more, and after all vortex is all about safe options to beat opponents' weapons couple with OS to cover every possible circumstance. When we force our way in with that, we know that they are eventually going to block, and that's when we can risk more with the command grab.

    But my point is, a good DeeJay with great knowledge of the matchup (or you know, just able to recognize a safejump), why should stop doing that?

    Are we really killing characters (I mean, not easily) if all we can do is bait a reversal or simply get our D+MK safejump blocked and do what, counterhit and throw pressure?

    Honestly, I'll just call that some kind of castrated vortex (or free ground pressure), which a solid player can caintain/handle quite easily.
    Go home and be a family demon.
  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    I cannot agree more, and after all vortex is all about safe options to beat opponents' weapons couple with OS to cover every possible circumstance. When we force our way in with that, we know that they are eventually going to block, and that's when we can risk more with the command grab.

    But my point is, a good DeeJay with great knowledge of the matchup (or you know, just able to recognize a safejump), why should stop doing that?

    Are we really killing characters (I mean, not easily) if all we can do is bait a reversal or simply get our D+MK safejump blocked and do what, counterhit and throw pressure?

    Honestly, I'll just call that some kind of castrated vortex (or free ground pressure), which a solid player can caintain/handle quite easily.

    Safe jump dive kick can be mixed with x-up tatsu or empty jump low. There is still mix up from this setup to open him up and keep the vortex going. It's not a castrated vortex, each character requires specific setups to get the most out of your pressure, DeeJay is no different. I don't even understand why DeeJay is even an issue for the vortex as you can take more chances against him because he can't parlay his upkicks into 400 damage like Ryu, Viper, Sagat, Cammy, etc, yet why is nobody complaining about vortexing those characters?

    DeeJay is not difficult to vortex, you simply must be satisfied with the options that work best. Besides vortexing DeeJay shouldn't be the goal in this match. Akuma can zone him out for extended periods.
    Who's cuisine reigns supreme?!

    "Well I guess the future is rape and no one can stop it."
  • dr4gz0rdr4gz0r My body can't take it Joined: Posts: 729
    Safe jump dive kick can be mixed with x-up tatsu or empty jump low. There is still mix up from this setup to open him up and keep the vortex going. It's not a castrated vortex, each character requires specific setups to get the most out of your pressure, DeeJay is no different. I don't even understand why DeeJay is even an issue for the vortex as you can take more chances against him because he can't parlay his upkicks into 400 damage like Ryu, Viper, Sagat, Cammy, etc, yet why is nobody complaining about vortexing those characters?

    DeeJay is not difficult to vortex, you simply must be satisfied with the options that work best. Besides vortexing DeeJay shouldn't be the goal in this match. Akuma can zone him out for extended periods.

    Eww, we can't use divekicks and we're forced to a easily noticeable safejump setup which just bring ground pressure (which is far worse then our usual vortex pressure). Thanks but no thanks, I'll keep considering that a weaker vortex. Also, I still find crossup tatsu to be a lot less effective against good players.

    To me, the fact that we have to zone him out is exactly the consequence of the fact that our vortex options are more limited against him. This doesn't mean we can't win, faaar from it, just we got to do things differenty.

    Btw, what's the issue with Cammy and Sagat? Their wakeup is far easier to handle, assuming you are not dropping setups and timings - yeah, they bring the hurt on us in that case, but we're mostly speaking of options here, and with slower wakeup and 5f reversal, they really have a hard time.
    Go home and be a family demon.
  • metallicabandmetallicaband DP & A TELEPORT ?!! Joined: Posts: 2,330
    Eww, we can't use divekicks and we're forced to a easily noticeable safejump setup which just bring ground pressure (which is far worse then our usual vortex pressure). Thanks but no thanks, I'll keep considering that a weaker vortex. Also, I still find crossup tatsu to be a lot less effective against good players.

    To me, the fact that we have to zone him out is exactly the consequence of the fact that our vortex options are more limited against him. This doesn't mean we can't win, faaar from it, just we got to do things differenty.

    Btw, what's the issue with Cammy and Sagat? Their wakeup is far easier to handle, assuming you are not dropping setups and timings - yeah, they bring the hurt on us in that case, but we're mostly speaking of options here, and with slower wakeup and 5f reversal, they really have a hard time.

    Cammy wakes up 2 frames slower after forward throw, which is more annoying than it is useful (forward throw > x2 dashes immediate j.hk will whiff, you have to time the jump-in manually). As for for the rest of their wakeup times it's all slower by 1 frame, I don't see how that's much helpful really, sweep > instant command dive kick will whiff.

    Waking up a frame slower after forward throw becomes useful vs characters like Dudley, you can automatically safejump his 4f EX jet upper after forward throw x2 dashes j.hk, but in most cases I see different wakeup times being more annoying than useful, because it means more manual timing and character specific setups.
    Shin Akuma V-Trigger Kreygasm, make it happen Capcom .
    Vanilla SF4 > AE 2012: Main: Akuma | Alt: Bison
  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    Eww, we can't use divekicks and we're forced to a easily noticeable safejump setup which just bring ground pressure (which is far worse then our usual vortex pressure).

    What is your usual vortex pressure say against Cammy? What is it you are doing to her that makes those set of options so superior to ones against DeeJay?
    Also, I still find crossup tatsu to be a lot less effective against good players.

    No crossup tatsu against Cammy then?
    To me, the fact that we have to zone him out is exactly the consequence

    It's a consequence of the fact that zoning is the most difficult thing for DeeJay to deal with.

    In any matchup you want to apply the strongest strategies.
    Btw, what's the issue with Cammy and Sagat?

    I don't have an issue with Cammy or Sagat, I just figure that if you have issues with DeeJay you might have issues with these as the setups require manual timing and they get waaayy more punish if you fuck up your pressure than DeeJay does.
    Who's cuisine reigns supreme?!

    "Well I guess the future is rape and no one can stop it."
  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Drunken Akuma Joined: Posts: 6,905
    Eww, we can't use divekicks and we're forced to a easily noticeable safejump setup which just bring ground pressure (which is far worse then our usual vortex pressure). Thanks but no thanks, I'll keep considering that a weaker vortex. Also, I still find crossup tatsu to be a lot less effective against good players.

    To me, the fact that we have to zone him out is exactly the consequence of the fact that our vortex options are more limited against him. This doesn't mean we can't win, faaar from it, just we got to do things differenty.

    Btw, what's the issue with Cammy and Sagat? Their wakeup is far easier to handle, assuming you are not dropping setups and timings - yeah, they bring the hurt on us in that case, but we're mostly speaking of options here, and with slower wakeup and 5f reversal, they really have a hard time.

    I just got back from a 65 man tournament in Seattle where I just waxed a DJ player to make top 16. You can vortex him quite well. You just have to know your options.
    Under stress you will not rise to your expectations, you will fall to your level of training.
  • dr4gz0rdr4gz0r My body can't take it Joined: Posts: 729
    What is your usual vortex pressure say against Cammy? What is it you are doing to her that makes those set of options so superior to ones against DeeJay?

    Um I thought we were clear on this, we can pretty much divekick them with ease and stuff their reversal, forcing them to stay put and gain momentum. You don't do that against DeeJay. Maybe it's no biggie for you guys, but it helps quite a bit here.

    Also, the fact that they wake up slower and that I'm not forced to rely on very strict safejump helps: I might screw the safejump and make it whiff, but it'd still be safe. If I mess up against DeeJay I'm more likely to get hit. That's a plus to me.
    No crossup tatsu against Cammy then?

    I never said that lol, you'd end up neglecting options. I also found DeeJay's reversal to autocorrect pretty good, whereas I find it easier to stuff Cammy's uppercut.
    It's a consequence of the fact that zoning is the most difficult thing for DeeJay to deal with.

    In any matchup you want to apply the strongest strategies.

    Aww Shin, if you could vortex him like, dunno, Gouken, you wouldn't just zone him out. We can't, thus we zone him (pretty good, too).
    I don't have an issue with Cammy or Sagat, I just figure that if you have issues with DeeJay you might have issues with these as the setups require manual timing and they get waaayy more punish if you fuck up your pressure than DeeJay does.

    I get what you mean, and yeah, being a low tier player as me it does hurt more against say Cammy or Sagat, it's not good to lose 50 % health off a reversal lol.

    But assuming you can time your stuff, you should have an easier time against slower reversal chars...
    I just got back from a 65 man tournament in Seattle where I just waxed a DJ player to make top 16. You can vortex him quite well. You just have to know your options.

    What are our options then? Do we have anything besides those safejump setups we mentioned?
    Go home and be a family demon.
  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    Um I thought we were clear on this, we can pretty much divekick them with ease and stuff their reversal, forcing them to stay put and gain momentum. You don't do that against DeeJay. Maybe it's no biggie for you guys, but it helps quite a bit here.

    You can divekick Cammy with ease? Really?

    Have you ever played a Cammy who could do a delayed spike?
    Also, the fact that they wake up slower and that I'm not forced to rely on very strict safejump helps: I might screw the safejump and make it whiff, but it'd still be safe. If I mess up against DeeJay I'm more likely to get hit. That's a plus to me.

    The DeeJay safe jump is very easy. I'm not sure how you could mess it up.
    I never said that lol, you'd end up neglecting options.

    I suppose so, but x-up tatsu is just as poor against a Cammy who won't block as it is a DeeJay who won't block.

    If your opponent is unwilling to block your unsafe vortex options are going to be pretty ass.
    I also found DeeJay's reversal to autocorrect pretty good, whereas I find it easier to stuff Cammy's uppercut.

    You're stuffing a spike with x-up tatsu?
    Aww Shin, if you could vortex him like, dunno, Gouken, you wouldn't just zone him out. We can't, thus we zone him (pretty good, too).

    I guess I would but if we could do that then vortex would be the best option. The reverse is also true. We vortex Gouken because he is impossible to zone.
    I get what you mean, and yeah, being a low tier player as me it does hurt more against say Cammy or Sagat, it's not good to lose 50 % health off a reversal lol.

    But assuming you can time your stuff, you should have an easier time against slower reversal chars...

    I don't have a problem timing stuff and hence I don't have a problem with DeeJay.

    I would rather fight DeeJay than Cammy....
    Who's cuisine reigns supreme?!

    "Well I guess the future is rape and no one can stop it."
  • lockd0wnlockd0wn Joined: Posts: 408
    Yeah I wanna know how dude can stuff Cammy's DP with dive kicks consistently, if at all. >_>
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  • VeNOM2099VeNOM2099 Step into my parlour Joined: Posts: 985
    I can see what dr4gz0r is getting at because I too have so much trouble vortexing Dee Jay (good DJ players, mind you). It's their damned up kicks (all versions) that seem to auto-correct so easily that it's not even funny: you get stuffed no matter what you try, so you're forced to rely on zoning, which, BTW, good Dee Jay players can blow up by doing EX Sobat from just past mid screen and still tag you on FB recovery. And yes, I've tried to be ambiguous about projectile timing but that move's a really good deterrent against chucking plasma if they're NOT a full screen away.

    Of course, it could all be because I'm still a scrub. But I feel this matchup is more akin to Bison than Cammy or Sagat in that safe jumps O/S knowledge yields better results than the Vortex.

    And, umh... Yeah... Stuffing Cammy's DP with divekicks??
    "Did I ever tell you... The definition of insanity?..."
    - Vaas (Far Cry 3)
  • めっさつめっさつ Joined: Posts: 108
    I just got back from a 65 man tournament in Seattle where I just waxed a DJ player to make top 16. You can vortex him quite well. You just have to know your options.
    Can you please elaborate on your vortex options against Dee Jay? Thanks in advance.
    笑止
  • famefame I live to Demon Rage, Ansatsuken practictioner. Joined: Posts: 49
    sup, just started playing ssf4 ae a while ago, i am still at scrub level, transitioning from a pad to a stick too. also i never played 3rd strike, so i dont know ao to escape trows, ao do escape or refuse a trow?
    Follower of the Ansatsuken (the Assassin's Fist). The Satsui no Hado is the way.
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    I wanna fight and beat the best.
  • dr4gz0rdr4gz0r My body can't take it Joined: Posts: 729
    You can divekick Cammy with ease? Really?

    Have you ever played a Cammy who could do a delayed spike?

    It works decently against her, it doesn't work at all against DeeJay. That's all I need to know.

    And yeah, that too. You just don't have to divekick 100 % of the time (you know better than me), just to say.
    The DeeJay safe jump is very easy. I'm not sure how you could mess it up.?

    It's tighter then safejumping Cammy man. I'm not saying it's impossible or something, I did it yesterday 100 % of the time against Yun in about 20 matches - and if I can manage that...

    Btw what's his wakeup speed? Should be either 1 or 2f the time for the D+MK.
    I suppose so, but x-up tatsu is just as poor against a Cammy who won't block as it is a DeeJay who won't block.

    If your opponent is unwilling to block your unsafe vortex options are going to be pretty ass.....

    I dunno, maybe it's just me who gets hit easier by DeeJay than Cammy during Tatsu crossup...

    This remind me of Makoto btw. I just don't do x-up tatsu anymore against her till I get some free time to see if it's really possible to use it against Mak - seems to get beaten badly by her new fukiage...
    You're stuffing a spike with x-up tatsu?

    Not reliably, at times not at all if it's what you're asking (not that I worked on it either). Wait a second, does this happen only to me? What the hell...

    Still better then getting stuffed every time by the evil upkicks... :P
    I guess I would but if we could do that then vortex would be the best option. The reverse is also true. We vortex Gouken because he is impossible to zone.

    This just gave me a headache lol.
    Go home and be a family demon.
  • C2QC2Q Joined: Posts: 1,167
    2 more replays of mine. Please comment.



  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Drunken Akuma Joined: Posts: 6,905
    Can you please elaborate on your vortex options against Dee Jay? Thanks in advance.
    What are our options then? Do we have anything besides those safejump setups we mentioned?

    Against DJ you have to use more of a reverse safe jump. You start by establishing your empty jump mix ups and attempt to set up your regular jump ins. You'll see Tokido using a lot of these actually because they tend to be great against opponents who love to block. Also when Deejay is out of meter you can use your normal vortex. You can also use dive kicks if he is really reversal happy.

    Once you establish that you opponent is starting to react to the empty jumps, then you can start mixing in your regular "safe" jumps. If you show you are willing to empty jump then a lot of players won't reversal so if you do a really late attack after jumping. If your timing is good then your opponent can't tell the difference between the two so he is stuck just blocking.
    Under stress you will not rise to your expectations, you will fall to your level of training.
  • MooiboyRoyMooiboyRoy Dutch Beast Joined: Posts: 387
    I'm a bit lost in this matchup.
    Anyone care to help?


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  • C2QC2Q Joined: Posts: 1,167
    Bison and Dudley are the other matchups i really have trouble with. Here is a game with a bison and dudley. I need to know what to do in both matchups when under pressure because i tend to eat a lot of shit while trying to escape.



  • VeNOM2099VeNOM2099 Step into my parlour Joined: Posts: 985
    Bison and Dudley are the other matchups i really have trouble with. Here is a game with a bison and dudley. I need to know what to do in both matchups when under pressure because i tend to eat a lot of shit while trying to escape.




    That Dudley wasn't very good... Always focusing when he was within sweep range. It was so predictable. If he would've played against me, I would've Ultra'd his butt so many times for doing it! Against a better Dudley, you would've gotten punished for all those careless st. HK you threw (though I am guilty of doing the same many times!). I did like your match against the Bison player though. Again, the only thing I can say for sure that I saw wrong in most rounds is that you don't AA enough.

    I know how hard it is sometimes to judge the right distance and not want to let go a careless SRK that would leave you hanging for a juicy punish from your opponent, but that's why I use cr. HP more often. Especially when my opponents like to use ambiguous cross-ups since the cr. HP gets those easily while an SRK may whiff...
    "Did I ever tell you... The definition of insanity?..."
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  • AndyGAndyG Joined: Posts: 448
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn7IWp1-dXs
    (Not sure how to do hotlinking. tried [me dia=youtu be]Zn7lWp1-dXs[/me dia] without the spaces, and it showed up blank.)

    Here's the first video of my Akuma. I'm new to Street Fighter, but not fighting games. This is partly a quality test, but I told myself today that no matter who the first good player I played was, I'd upload it. So here's a match against Chris Hu's Oni.

    My own comments on the match:

    I need to not try to put wake up pressure on Oni via jumping so much. I play a little Oni and his big DP can grab you out of the air easily even if you're right over the top of his head, autocorrect or not. I kept doing it because he seemed afraid to do anything about it.

    I don't know why I missed that free punish in the first round. Either I thought he was a little closer and c.MKxxHK tatsu would connect, or I just cracked and wasn't ready to walk up and do a real punish. There were no lag problems, so no excuses. Later in the round he messes up a FADC into ultra, but that's because he didn't do the right input. You should do FADC >> dash >> QCB QCF 3P; Oni crosses under his opponent for a split second so QCFx2 doesn't work 90% of the time.

    I'm pretty glad I had the presence of mind to hit the other direction to get ultra demon to come out when he tatsus over my c.MK. :D

    Rip into me, other than the dropped combos (very rare for me, I must've been intimidated by the name, I haven't played many big names in SF! I'm free to fame D: )
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