The Ongoing Tier Thread

BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazingJoined: Posts: 1,713 mod
Ok. This is going to be the ONE tier list for CvS2 I want to see on SRK. Seriously. The next person that comes on here and makes a tier thread will get forcefully sodomized by Prince AND the entire Revolution.

Here's my tier list based on what I've seen in Japan and America. Discuss all you want in this thread, I'll make edits to this first posts as things develop. DON'T MAKE ANY MORE TIER THREADS!

Top Tier:

C-Sagat
A-Sakura
P-Cammy
A-Bison
several different flavors of Blanka
C/N-Chun
C-Guile
C-Honda

High-Mid Tier:

A-Hibiki
C-Rolento
N-Iori
K-Geese
K-Rock
P-Kyo
A-Vega
C-Ken

Mid Tier:
A-Todo
N-Maki
N-Vice
C-Rugal
C-Kim
C-Yamazaki
C-Dhalsim
C/A-Eagle
N-Akuma
N-Mai
K-Nakoruru
C-Yun
A-Joe
C/N-Ryu
N-Morrigan
K-Chang
A-Athena

Low-Mid Tier:
A-Yuri
A-Terry
A-Benimaru
K-Zangief
C-Balrog
K-Raiden
A-Dan
K-Ryo
C-Kyosuke
A-Haohmaru

Low Tier:
N-King

All the characters in the High-Mid Tier can be (and often are) considered Top Tier among different respected players.
-Campbell Tran

as of 12/02/09:

me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
bas: hahah of course no
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Comments

  • 56565656 ! Joined: Posts: 32
    Is Chun Li still considered to be top tier? I got the impression that she was dying (particularly C-Chun) and getting very predictable. She's still good, though.

    Anyway, great thread. I take it you'll only list the best groove(s) to represent each character which makes sense. Nice to see P-Cammy and C-Honda up there. I personally think A-Kyosuke is the worst, but it's not like it matters.
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    CVS2: P-Groove-Cammy,etc.
  • LZJLZJ Joined: Posts: 545
    even though buk is a decent cvs2 player hes not my hero. dont change my posts buk. :tup:
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  • HoneyBBQGrundleHoneyBBQGrundle Coco's dead! Joined: Posts: 980
    Buktooth wrote:
    The next person that comes on here and makes a tier thread will get forcefully sodomized by Prince AND the entire Revolution.

    Some members here might like that. Don't you think K Sagat should be top tier? What about K Cammy wouldn't she be 1st or 2nd tier?
    I do want to play Barbie Horse Adventures.
  • gig4lsgig4ls Joined: Posts: 415
    so Kyosuke has been bumped up from bottom tier, leaving King on her own?
    My cat has better footsies than me.
  • ocelot_357ocelot_357 Your pretty good kid Joined: Posts: 227
    LZJ wrote:
    ...

    You can't be serious are you? You obviously never seen shoshosho, and her excellent zoning abilitys. Not to mention her fucking crazy dive kick. Oh wait she has more, RC hurricane kick is the most annoying roll cancel in the game. That chick is a beast. :wow:

    :rock:
    When someone once asked Diogenes why he often laughed by himself, he said, "For that very reason."
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Personally, I'd bump claw Vega up in rankings... maybe even switch Vega for Honda. Did you tier in order, or is it just a general list of top and mid? Honda is a decent character, but IMO he's not top top tier.
  • popoblopopoblo Joined: Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    come on buk, you've got to be kidding if you don't think C/A eagle is in the high-mid tier. i guess i'll have to start winning some massive tournies with him to prove something, although combofiend and arturo have already proved his tourney validity.

    peace
  • jae hoonjae hoon Flames of Justice Joined: Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    LZJ wrote:
    ...


    Your kidding right Honda is a solid mid tier and Sak is almost godly in A Groove and decent in C.

    Athena doesnt get much love, I really think if utilized right she is close to high mid tier.

    Same for Joe as well. :karate:
    SRK Kobrai Kai - Kickin bitches in the face since 2001
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    Some members here might like that. Don't you think K Sagat should be top tier? What about K Cammy wouldn't she be 1st or 2nd tier?
    Each character only gets their best version on the tier list. If we were to tier each character in every possible groove, it would come out to 264 entries on the tier list. Would you want to do that?
    popoblo wrote:
    come on buk, you've got to be kidding if you don't think C/A eagle is in the high-mid tier. i guess i'll have to start winning some massive tournies with him to prove something, although combofiend and arturo have already proved his tourney validity.
    And notice that both Combofiend and Arturo have dropped him. =D
    Anyway, winning tourneys with any character doesn't prove any kind of top-tierness in CvS2. Sawada could probably take Evolution with A-Zangief/Blanka/Bison. Doesn't really mean much. Anyway, the high-mid tier was composed solely of characters that are pretty much top tier, and often are considered top tier by many respected people. How many people besides yourself believe that Eagle is top tier?
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,192 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I think eagle is high mid. Damage potential, counters sagat pretty well and does ok against other top characters, good defense and range. It just takes a lot to be decent with him.
    Whiff your entire SOUL into c.MK in 3S.
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  • jae hoonjae hoon Flames of Justice Joined: Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Eagle is a good high mid character imo.

    I think K Hibiki has an advantage over A Hibiki though and that P Kyo is top tier not high mid.
    SRK Kobrai Kai - Kickin bitches in the face since 2001
  • LZJLZJ Joined: Posts: 545
    it feels like i'm living in crazytown the way everybody keeps on bringing up Sakura and Honda when they talk about toptier. you people just needs to play good Blanka and Sagats.
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  • Pimp WillyPimp Willy "I guarantee we got a rat in the house!" Joined: Posts: 10,774 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I think C-Rolento is definitely not his best groove. I would put A-Rolento above C-Rolento any day. Even better, I would say P-Rolento is really good. At Evo, everytime I turned around I was playing a P-Rolento it seemed. He has much more potential in P or A than in C.

    As far as Eagle, I saw Combo play him in the round robin pools on friday at Evo. So he hasn't completely dropped him.

    I am very surprised to see Honda and Guile on Top tier. High-Mid maybe, but I don't see them as Top tier. Who besides Daigo/Mago uses them successfully?

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  • popoblopopoblo Joined: Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Buktooth wrote:
    And notice that both Combofiend and Arturo have dropped him. =D
    Anyway, winning tourneys with any character doesn't prove any kind of top-tierness in CvS2. Sawada could probably take Evolution with A-Zangief/Blanka/Bison. Doesn't really mean much. Anyway, the high-mid tier was composed solely of characters that are pretty much top tier, and often are considered top tier by many respected people. How many people besides yourself believe that Eagle is top tier?

    yeah, i noticed arturo droppped him awhile ago for C-sakura, and he plays C-sagat/sakura/r2 blanka now. but i thought combofiend either played A-eagle/rock OR rugal/r2 bison.........OR K-rolento/cammy/sagat. but i thought combofiend still played him, he did at evo at least.

    and if winning tourneys doesn't prove any top tierness in cvs2, then how else does a character prove its validity? how well a character performs in certain matches? if that's the case, then eagle counters 6 of your 8 TOP TIER (with the exception of C-guile and C-sagat, and i don't know much about the guile matchup, and the sagat matchup isn't retardedly lopsided or anything). how can a character who does that well not even be considered HIGH MID tier? eagle isn't top tier, i'm not going to say that, but high mid? absolutely. apoc and roger williams (ratio1beatdown) believe eagle is ranked highly, and they're pretty respected players IMO.

    what do you think is holding eagle back then if you don't consider him high mid?

    peace
  • LZJLZJ Joined: Posts: 545
    What is a SAWADA?
    DO LESS
  • FatalFuryDFatalFuryD Feint Cancel Addict Joined: Posts: 956
    Sawada is name of a Japanese player.

    What makes A-vega so great?
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    the same thing that makes vega great in any groove, jump and walk
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    LZJ I think you're a cool dude, but if you keep posting nonsense in threads with the intention of sidetracking them and causing flame wars, I'm gonna have to ban you.

    Popoblo: countering 6 out of the top 8 characters? I'm having trouble believing that. You should probably elaborate more on those match ups, then I'll see what I can come up with in terms of counter-points.
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • popoblopopoblo Joined: Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Buktooth wrote:
    Popoblo: countering 6 out of the top 8 characters? I'm having trouble believing that. You should probably elaborate more on those match ups, then I'll see what I can come up with in terms of counter-points.

    yes, countering. eagle vs......

    A-Sakura
    P-Cammy
    A-Bison
    several different flavors of Blanka
    C/N-Chun
    C-Honda

    is at LEAST 6-4 in eagle's favor, because that would be the most basic definition of a counter (5-5 would be a tie). i've elaborated on all of those matches in my eagle thread, and i won't re-post all that info, so i'll keep it short.

    1. vs A-Sakura, standing fierce her whiffed divekicks and whiffed standing rh, you CAN use mp counter to nullify RC hurricane kicks and fireballs if your reflexes are that good, but it isn't necessary. RC lariat crossups, crouching fierce jump ins. no real point to jump in.

    2. vs P-Cammy, RC lariat her jump ins (the day somebody parries all 4 or 5 hits of that and then punishes me is the day i quit cvs2, it's not practical). standing fierce her whiffed standing rh, stuff her walk up advances after a standing fierce with a crouching mk, link a standing fierce (IF cammy doesn't have a level 3) and she's pushed out again. obviously watch for parry setups after she walks in after a close standing fierce. press standing mk if you get nervous, it trades with cammy's standing rh at WORST. no real point to jump in.

    3. vs A-Bison, RC lariat jump ins, standing fierce periodically from long ranged, or just continually walk up and press crouching mk. bison can't do much in this matchup. NEVER jump in, because you already own the ground game and bison's AA options are too good.

    4. vs Blanka, crouching fiere jump ins, standing fierce blanka's crouching fierce in recovery. eagle's crouching forward > blanka's. use crouching rh periodically. mp counter eats RC electricity. blanka hops, he gets a stick in the grill (standing fierce). NEVER jump in, you're giving damage to blanka.

    5. vs C/N-Chun Li, RC lariat crossups, crouching fierce jump ins. chun li has to REALLY space her standing strong perfectly to punish eagle's crouching forward because the range is deceptive, so that will be eagle's primary poke in the matchup with a few standing fierces. eagle can selectively jump in with jumping mk. the biggest thing is to RC lariat crossups, because people like to think eagle can easily be crossed up, which definitely isn't the case.

    6. vs C-Honda, mp counter eats headbutts AND honda hands, or if you're in C-groove, you can do late air block, crouching roundhouse to punish a headbutt (thanks kcxj). same thing on the ground game, crouching forward and standing fierce. NEVER jump in.

    plus eagle has the 2nd most damaging level 2 super, dizzies surprisingly well, is a great battery, above average vitality, and 8000+ CC regular ground CC, with an easy link into CC so he doesn't have to guess (does around 6500 i think).

    remember, i've gone into more detail in the eagle thread, so you can check the finer points in there because this is the bare bones of it all. and remember, when in doubt, hit crouching forward :tup:.

    maybe people don't play eagle because it takes too much patience. lifetimeboy should play eagle, he's definitely got the patience. that's what gets me sometimes, i want to use eagle's awesome jump ins when i shouldn't be jumping at all.

    peace

    PS- so when i said that eagle counters team BAS, that actually has some validity. while eagle shouldn't be OCV'ing the team for free, he does have favorable (6-4 or better) matchups with A-sakura/bison/blanka. just wanted to clarify that.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    To counter what Popoblo said about Eagle vs A groove Sakura...

    Punishing a whiffed RH with Eagle's st FP might be possible... but is it practical? Like I mean Sagat can also punished whiffed st RH from her (and with much more damage potential) but trust me when I say, it is not the most practical thing in the world. Cuz if you have to be at very very particular distance to punish her whiffed RH. I don't see much point to it, cuz she has so good walking speed, by the time you are ranging that exact distance, she can just walk on in and st RH from closer. I see Eagle's cr RH as Blanka's slide... while it is good, using it a bit much can also lead to you losing the match. I mean if Eagle lands a cr RH, so what he tripped them (and due to backward flying knockdown) he reset the match as well. Now if they predict and jump/roll the RH, Eagle is in hell. IMO.

    I personally think Sak beats Eagle worse than she "beats" C/N Sagat. Cuz C/N Sagat has plenty of tools in overcoming the ground game defiencies (such as one hit and you die) where as Eagle's one hit and you die comes only from up close. He doesn't have the same tools to get in close to Sak like Sagat (roll).

    Can't say much about Bison... because IMO matchups don't really apply to Bison. Cuz without meter he sucks, with meter, well he can beat anyone.

    I dunno about P Cammy... cuz she is kinda retarded hard to fight in theory fighter but in reality... land a combo and you are fine.

    As far as Blanka goes... IMO... in theory Eagle does beat Blanka often. But fact of matter is Blanka is so good he usually wins the matchup in reality. I mean have I never see eagle beast on Blanka ever. I instead see him annoy Blanka... and then lose still to something like hop CC (which is a valid tactic... ain't nobody hitting someone out of a hop 100%, hell people can't hit people out of rolls 100%, hops are faster).

    EDIT:::

    Buk, what is your take on Yamazaki?
  • dialupsuckydialupsucky FINAL SHOWDOWN Joined: Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    not really anything to do with the thread, but I consider 6-4 a character beats another character but stuff like 7-3 to be a counter character.
  • FatalFuryDFatalFuryD Feint Cancel Addict Joined: Posts: 956
    ragnafrak wrote:
    the same thing that makes vega great in any groove, jump and walk

    Would't P and K be better than A then?
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I think Eagle is at least High-Mid, not top. I agree with Popo's list except Sakura, i think it's 5:5. I think that Eagle's good on paper, it's just that he's a little too laggy.

    edit:

    Fatal Fury: I think the reason why Vega is better in A, is because he just gets meter real fast, and that makes you kill peoples faster, and that kind of makes up for his vitality weakness. Vega is too weak in the vitality area, and you really can't rush down with him effectively that's why I don't like K vega. P-Vega is good, but you get more supers in A, and maybe get 1/2 full bar before he dies.
  • CrotchMonkeyCrotchMonkey G-R-A-S-P Joined: Posts: 691
    ive always been told N-Ken was better than C-Ken. im pretty sure you said it yourself buk.

    is N-Ken just a personal preference or what?
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Xaronth wrote:
    ive always been told N-Ken was better than C-Ken. im pretty sure you said it yourself buk.

    is N-Ken just a personal preference or what?

    I'm not buk, but I think the reason why people tell you N-Ken is better to use is because he can get inside better. C-Ken has a harder time getting inside. And the reason why C-Ken is better is because of killer supers, it's just a little harder to get in with C ken.
  • YansomaYansoma Meh Joined: Posts: 379
    I know that one person being good with characters doesnt make them good( Iyo with N-Maki/Dhalsim/Rolento). But damn, Ashley Hernandez' K-Guile and VDO's P-Joe/Raiden/Zangief are -ridiculous-.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    the only "real" toptiers are blanka and sagat. sakura and honda are pretty much the worst characters in the game. i still cannot believe they are ranked so high. sagat and blanka are obviously the best, while a bunch of people are below them. cvs2 isnt like other games where you can use anybody and win. its not so bad as marvel though and you are only capable of using 4 characters if you want to play competitively however without blanka and sagat or atleast 1 more uppermidtier character then you cannot play and expect to win.

    TOP
    - blanka, sagat

    UPPERMID
    - cammy, eagle, vega, yamazaki, geese, bison, hibiki, rock, joe, rugal, akuma, and balrog

    LOWERMID
    - dhalsim, sakura, maki, zangief, ryo, athena, guile, chun-li, raiden, yuri, ryu, ken, iori, kyo, terry, nakoruru, morrigan, mai, hoahmaru, rolento, kim, dan, yun, todo, king, and benimaru

    BOTTOM
    chang, honda, kyosuke, vice

    this is pretty much what the general tiering of cvs2 is today. i think i got everybody.
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,215 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Ha, that's funny. Vice isn't low tier by far.
  • LZJLZJ Joined: Posts: 545
    Buktooth wrote:
    LZJ I think you're a cool dude, but if you keep posting nonsense in threads with the intention of sidetracking them and causing flame wars, I'm gonna have to ban you.

    why would say youre gonna ban me when i'm just voicing out my opinion and other people come at me with their bullshit remarks. this place is for discussing things so just let me discuss things.
    DO LESS
  • m1kekimm1kekim acquire currency! Joined: Posts: 453
    where do you guys think C Rugal fits into this tier picture? He looks pretty good on paper - and with meter (lvl 2) he can be deadly.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    akumamaster: please destroy your tier list.
  • SmoothCatSmoothCat ダウンに戻る神 Joined: Posts: 2,121 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Buck Why is p kyo better then k kyo i owuld like to know that if u can please?
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  • m1kekimm1kekim acquire currency! Joined: Posts: 453
    IMO I think confirmed top tier would only be Sagat C, Blanka C/A, Bison A, Sakura A. Some other people like C Guile, Ken, Chun are pretty good cause the people who win tournies with those players are really good in general at fighting games.
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,249 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    imo, the only characters that are top tier are sagat,blanka,sak,cammy and bison.

    i think bison is a better character overall in K groove, but his CC is too buff.

    yamazaki should be ranked higher. he has a solid ground game, good jump ins, and good RCs. i guess his supers arent cutting it nowadays tho and he has some very bad matches against runaway characters. still, hes a better character than chun li, imo.
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

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  • Mr.SNKMr.SNK . . . . -B Joined: Posts: 1,809 mod
    I'm no pro but Bison is only Tier like in A- and you have to be really carefull.

    But for Tears it's easy C-Sagat A/C/K-Blanka C/P/K-Cammy A-Sakura as for mids which were listed on the first page would be C-Guile K-Geese and soforth.

    Certain grooves have top tiers, like P- would be CAmmy Vega Kyo
    K- would be Geese Sagat Cammy A- is what we think and know it is, Sak Bison Blanka N- is tuff I would say shotos would be on top for that groove but hey who knows, S- is debate able but Terry/shotos Chun Cammy
    C- is Sagat Chun and blanka.


    Guys that can be taken into into the mid high concept would be like C-Honda (Hop 360 and rc HHS is to damn good) K-Rog K-Rock and some others.

    Call me a wiedo call me a freak call me don nutz cause I can't compete. ;)

    P.S. hey smooth it's because one parry can go into dizzyville with hella damage. He's just better with parry then JD.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    seems to me buc's list is very accurate. imo, what seperates the top from mid tier is their matchups overall to the rest of the cast. but don't forget, tier lists change all the time as game play evolves. it's usually a battle for spaces 5 through 10 for who's best.
  • popoblopopoblo Joined: Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    cheese_master

    honestly, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. seriously. whiff punishing sakura's standing roundhouse with eagle's standing fierce is easier than doing it with sagat's. it is still difficult, but that isn't the FOCAL point of the matchup. i said my post was a bare bones explanation, remember?

    if eagle lands a crouching rh.....then he just landed a crouching rh. that's why you're selective about when you throw them out too, so characters with quick rolls or jumps don't smoke you.

    sak beating eagle worse than sagat? what is that based on? play sakura against me at the next cleveland tourney, i'll own you. you've never seen a good eagle player, so don't even talk about it.

    matchups don't apply to bison? eagle plays so safe against bison that situations don't arise for him to land his CC.

    eagle vs blanka, have you ever even seen a good eagle player? i don't remember playing eagle much at the last tourney i saw you at, so that doesn't count. i'll be sure to use him all the time at the next tourney to show you my matchups aren't just theory fighter.

    hop into CC? that's free damage for eagle. blanka hops at you, you press crouching fierce EVERY TIME. now blanka has 2 kinds of hops, KKK command hop and his dash. he dashes into CC, you press crouching fierce while he's still air born. if he KKK hops at you, you press crouching fierce. if he RC KKK hops at you, eagle's crouching fierce has enough hit frames that it'll catch blanka while he's landing (because blanka's KKK hop has more recovery than his dash).

    besides, people can't punish rolls 100% because rolls are invulnerable to normals until the very end. blanka is vulnerable that WHOLE time while he's airborn, so it's not too safe. huge difference man.

    please, don't post if you don't know what you're talking about.

    dialupsucky

    okay, EAGLE HAS FAVORABLE MATCHUPS WITH 6 OF THE 8 TOP TIER CHARACTERS. better? favorable matchups and counters seemed kind of similar, but whatever. you need to get back into cvs2 man.

    FatalFuryD

    vega can land his CC and do REAL damage easier in A-groove than comboing into his super in P/K. it's that simple.

    NOW i know why apoc said he doesn't post much about eagle, because people think you don't know your shit and wonder why you haven't gotten top 8 at evo with him or some stupid shit.

    peace
  • snakedizzle209snakedizzle209 SnakeDux Joined: Posts: 777
    ocelot_357 wrote:
    Oh wait she has more, RC hurricane kick is the most annoying roll cancel in the game. That chick is a beast. :wow:

    :rock:

    Acually how can Sak's RC be more annoying than electriciy or Chunli's leg shit. But she is a beast without a doubt. I think Buk's chart was pretty acurate in listing Sak as 2nd, but who else is better than Sagat in CvS2.

    Anyways nomore flame wars guys. That shit was getting old.
    If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be somebody to ride you. - Bruce Lee
  • dialupsuckydialupsucky FINAL SHOWDOWN Joined: Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    heh.... well I didnt want to start a arguement I was just saying, that kinda like a lot of characters beat other characters, but I think countering another character is like a whole nother story shrug...

    As for getting back in the lol.. Nah im 2 years with out praciting it about now, and the game doesnt look like any more fun then it used to be. Still seems like the same game lol. Thanks anyway.
  • CrotchMonkeyCrotchMonkey G-R-A-S-P Joined: Posts: 691
    akumamaster: please destroy your tier list.

    i second that notion
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