I know that if Yama has a weakness, it's that he's not exactly hot stuff in A-groove, so he's not going to get much play at all on any A-team.
Rugal? I remember some guys that were solid with him, but what happened to him anyway? Shouldn't RC fix his old weakness of unreliable AA?
Well, this thread went to hell pretty fast, and it didn't even require the input of sim_rock... is that guy still even around here?
the people who say that eagle is shit compared to sagat really need to realize what the game is about. .
eagle can land his CC and do REAL damage easier in A-groove than comboing into his super in P/K. it's that simple.
NOW i know why apoc said he doesn't post much about eagle, because people think you don't know your shit and wonder why you haven't gotten top 8 at evo with him or some stupid shit.
okay, you acknowledge that eagle can punish sakura's standing rh, yet sakura somehow magically still wins the match? you're not providing enough support to prove a point. i'd like to hear what else you think on the matchup. but you said it yourself- you don't know shit about eagle. RC lariat IS the best low jump AA, and you DO need to RC it (RC mp lariat of course). and P is probably eagle's 3rd best groove, so you haven't faced eagle in his best groove, but it's okay because you still got to see his potential. geese IS NOT top tier, i don't know where you got that from.
jae hoon wrote:
Well you would have a point if you werent the same guy who said Sakura was one of the worst characters in the game when A Sak is one of the best characters if not the best character in the game.
Eagle is good no doubt high mid imo but he isnt Sagat that is true. Like I said you can play no groove Sagat and still have a chance just because its Sagat.
Now onto something else
Buk or anyone else who feels like commenting on this. You rate A Hibiki as the better Hibiki but I always felt K was alittle bit better although either isnt a wrong answer. Im going to guess that the reasoning is that she has about 800 different ways to setup her CC which does increadible damage but I could be wrong.
are you from new jersey? i'd love to play you some time.
jae hoon wrote:
Lol no and yes I do know who you are. I just find it rather surprising that you would say something like that. I would think you would be joking about that but it sounded pretty serious as this isnt the first thread you have said it in. Its common knowledge about how good Sak is and to say she isnt is just rather stupid honestly.
In from Washington actually but im deploying in this Hell called Iraq.
Spoony: To expound alittle more, Joe has trouble stopping small jumps, he doesnt have a reliable ground AA, so C groove eats him alive and he has not backup AA besides super for people who can parry well. He is to reliant on his crouching short for a reliable super combo. He has no air game to speak of. Those are some reasons why he might not be considered mid top tier.
He does however have a bit of an underrated roll, its not great but its good enough. He has an excellent pressure and chip damage game. His crouching jabs and crouching shorts are fast. I dont need to mention his lvl3 double upper. His screw upper is surprisngly quick and is good for people who love to small jump. He has an Iori like super combo. He has good speed to get across the playing field. He has a good projectile if used correctly and not abused. He also has a good RC with his RC Crazy Hands, the crazy hands are linkable to but its hella hard to pull off.
Um Geese has three bad match ups in my book, Yama Vega and Geese.
Because they can all out range him, well except for geese.
Nick T. wrote:
One thing I learned is that you may be good at RCing, but under pressure there's still the fuck up factor. You fuck up, you're dead.
Geese owns Vega for free. All you have to do is keep the pressure on and keep him out of the air.
Ok first off, Sakura isnt' ALL about RC. And with Sakura the more pressure your under the better, because if there trying to rush you then just roll cancel. And fucking up isnt really a factor. If you fuck up then it's your fault and not the character's fault. If your really worried about fucking up then just practice. And you say that Sakura sucks without RC. Thats not true at all. you said that all she has is st. RH and st. jab, but st.RH is one of the best pokes in the game and you can just use that, her BnB, a reliable AA and CCs just to make her an extreamly good character. She's TOP tier without RC, but RC is what make her GOD tier.
LZJ I have one question for you. Everyone seems to think that you are Josh Wong. Is this true?
snake: vega rapes geese. too much speed and range. k geese is probably the best to have in the match up because of jd and the lucky super factor, but rushing vega down is really difficult. you'll end up eating standing'crouching mp and rc ball all day.
you said sakura isnt all about RC then you said if theyre trying to rush you then roll cancel. rushdown doesn = blindly running in and pressing buttons of your choice. its a lot of things combined. you cant just say RC through it.
standing roundhouse is good but people need more than a good poke to be toptier. toptier is more about the upperhand advantages that arise from certain situations.
All that trash talking about Eagle this, Eagle that is seriously hurting my eyes. WTF? Three pages of this garbage? I'd like if people stopped always getting offended over small matters for once and maybe post some helpful info instead of just making up stuff.
Is it really that offensive that some random scrub thinks Sakura sucks? Either bet it or stfu and let him voice his opinion already.
As far as K Hibiki goes, IMO she is not as good as A Hibiki, but K Hibiki does have alot tricks that can help her land supers and she has more offensive options than A Hibiki.
And whoever somewhere in here said Ryu was upper mid tier is on crack... Ryu sucks. Ryu is the worst shoto and IMO bottom 10 in the game
Uh... Sagat has more than cr FP. He has st LK, st FP, cr MK, st MK, and long ass cr LK. So uh... he has more than cr FP.
So yea... don't use Sagat's cr FP as if he had only one poke to compare to Sak's RH. 99% of the time cr FP is a pain to deal with because he has 12341234234239423952345 other pokes he can do to throw you off. St LK is the gayest of them all... as a Sagat player, IMO it should build meter
N-Groove is Hibiki's best groove and A is second. Too many reasons for me to list. Does anyone agree?
Ryu may not have as much going for him as Ken or even Akuma, but he still has enough to make him really good. He owns on N-groove and is pretty good on other grooves. Way higher than bottom ten. IMO he's smack dab in the middle of tier listing. And he isnt the worst shoto. Lol, Dan is, if you want to count him.
What was that supposed to mean? Are you dissin' me or what?
Keep in mind that I said Sagat was Top tier even without his BEST poke. st LK sucks. It's only half decent for linking supers. Cr MK is extreamly good I'll have to agree. St Mk sucks ALOT. Cr LK is really good though.
You forgot the all mighty st jab(c). Good for ticks and pressure. I use st jab(c), cr LK, cr MK, cr FP and st FP on the taller opponents(and to punnish blanka balls). I never said that Sagat only had one good poke. I just said that he was top tier even without his BEST poke.
i would have the say that hibiki benefits the most from A groove not from N groove. the only thing i see N groove hibiki having over A hibiki is her low jump. run isnt bad either but she isnt much of a rushdown character so walk suits her just fine. its pretty useful for every character. A hibiki has counter and then activate, throw then activate, the most A groove custom combo mixups, useful rollcancels, and since shes best as a turtle character(my opinion) A groove suits her quite nicely. N groove has some nice traits as well such as counter breakstock super, rollcancels, running low jab, etc but however i dont think its as good as A groove for her.
Ok people for the record this is not an arguement so dont even think it.
LZJ, your only reasons for A-Hibiki arent acurate. All you list is a bunch of stuff that N-groove has too. You say that she has useful set ups to CCs, well N-groove has setups to big combos too. You can combo into her root 3 going my way then do that one super, fuck I forgot it's name. Thats around 10000 easy damage. and you can counter into that same super since you can store shit so fast in N. So the whole damaging combo thing sort-a falls through for you. And you said that she has useful RCs. You're forgetting that N-groove is just as RC accessable as A. You said she was a good turtle character, well you can turtle on N too. You just have more options incase you need to change up your style when the tables turn. What about counter movement, It works really good with Hibiki. And Small jump. All this gives N-hibiki a slight edge over A. A Hibiki's still good though.
In the end you have all the same options as A plus more.
I dont wanna' argue about Sagat, because Sagat is a very versitile character. If you know how to use him then whatever pokes you may have can be used effectively.
cheese: to elaborate, geese's entire game revolves around getting inside and pressuring. that isn't going to happen against vega. his range with mp won't allow it. it sounds too simple, but believe me, that mp will shut geese the fuck down. and you're right, vega is faster than most other charcters and outranges them too. but i was just saying why he beats geese, not everyone else.
snake: standing lk with sagat is really good. stuffs a lot of attacks, including sagat and blanks's cr fp.
and n hibiki is amazing if you put in the time. but i think a hibiki is just a little better. resets, all those cc set ups, and she still has rc. but what do i know? i like k hibiki.
man, BAS using A-Honda just proves how damn good Honda is. No damaging CC at all, just pure RC cheese. And he switches out A-Sak for Honda.
Really? I did not know N groove Hibiki could combo a super WITHOUT hittin you.
As far as Ryu being bottom 10, I actually might have overexaggerated. But he is low tier IMO. I think Kim is better than Ryu as well as chars like Mai and Terry.
N groove turtles are usually not as effective as A turtles because the subsystems of N groove are designed to get you close to the opponent. i'm pretty sure that was capcom's point to putting in low jump. breakstock is best used as a rushdown tactic. you break your stock while your opponent's guard is going down. countermovement is decent but you have to remember that hibiki's roll isnt that good in the first place. a fast roll like kim or iori is pretty effective but hibiki's roll is slow vulnerable. even if you counterroll sagat doing cr. fierce and tigersuper he can still hit you. also the way that activation is instant makes a powerful turtling tool. when youre guard is going you can activate to keep yourself alive and with hibiki's activate it can be scary for rushers since theyre so close to hibiki. if theyre point blank range you can now mix them up with a low lk or with a RH throw. N groove can combo into super yes i forgot to add that but its not as good i dont think. activation is by far better than level 3 super. we're allowed to argue but only over the game.
I think alot of people are overrating Vega due to Ricky being just damn good and having fast ass reflexes. IMO the Vega players that win, are the ones who have excellent reflexes and very very very good knowledge of footsies. And even then, he is tedious as fuck to use.
snake: standing lk with sagat is really good. stuffs a lot of attacks, including sagat and blanks's cr fp.
Sagat's s.lk sucks? LMAO it's probably the single most dominating normal in the game.
that doesn't seem too surprising though. his sakura has always been his weakest point on his team, then his blanka and bison always picked up the slack. this way, you almost GUARANTEE his second character to come in with meter, and honda can grind down the fight so that he either takes out the opponent's first character or leaves him with little life.
what i found most surprising about the switch out was his team order, A-honda/BLANKA/r2 bison. i would imagine blanka would be last instead of bison. any ideas on why that is? BUKTOOTH, you said sawada could take evo with A-zangief/blanka/bison, any reasons why you think that team order is stronger (ie blanka/bison instead of bison/blanka)? maybe it's because people play A-sakura/bison/blanka IN THAT ORDER in japan, so blanka doesn't have to worry about being chipped to death by sakura. even then, sakura's custom isn't really guaranteed against a competent blanka.