The Ongoing Tier Thread

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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Popoblo...

    You seem to take my post way outta context. I never said I was the master of all Eagle matchups that you claim you are. But till you can use Eagle on your team consistently and prove me wrong, your all just theory and talk. You used team A Yare at the tournament I was at, and you used it at Evolution. I mean its great that you love the character that much, but I never see you use him except against a few players I had little doubt you could have beaten easily anyways. So as knowledgable as you are with Eagle, if you don't trust your ability to use him in a tournament, I (and most other people) have no reason to believe Eagle is all that. I mean you are the #1 supporter of Eagle, yet you use A Blanka/Sak/Bison. So how am I supposed to ever see a good Eagle player when they don't ever use their Eagles ever or flee to BSB when the going gets rough?

    So instead of making it look like everyone is dissing you, please prove it via action. You are a great A BSB player, but I hardly ever see or hear of your Eagle coming out when the going gets tough. So all those favorable matchups you claim... its hard to accept them.

    As far as Blanka, by hop I meant dash. And if Dash CC doesn't work... if it is free damage every time, then tell me how people from SBO2 finals to Evo to random ass local tournaments get hit by that shit? It hits everyone, there by is a pretty valid tactic.

    And BTW... please name a good Eagle player... I mean I've seen CFiend use him in COUNTER CHAR MATCHUPS and against PEOPLE HE COULD BEAT WITH RANDOM SELECT. I ain't ever seen anyone make Eagle a gotta have staple on a team like I have seen with Ken, Guile, Sak, Sagat, Bison, Blanka etc etc.

    You want me to play you next time Sak vs Eagle. I'll do so in casual play. I'll play C Sak vs Eagle. You can prove to me exactly how good this matchup is. I don't even play Sak, but I am pretty confident against Eagle.
  • popoblopopoblo Joined: Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    *snip*

    but wait, buktooth just said tourney performance doesn't mean much, and sawada could win evo with A-random character/bison/blanka. but whatever.

    yes, i was training with A-blanka/sak/bison because that was the team i wanted to use at cleveland and evo. i wanted bison's CC to comeback, that's all. i beat VDO using A-eagle, and he was my toughest competitor the entire tourney at cleveland. i beat RF in casual at evo and my eagle took out his whole sakura and 3/4 of his bison, and RF got top 8. i know i know, casual play doesn't mean anything, but RF wasn't messing around.

    dash CC with blanka doesn't work against eagle because eagle's crouching fierce punishes it so well, you just have to be looking for it or (gasp) just block after blanka hops at you instead of getting baited.

    good eagle players? roger williams and apoc. alex walbert and arturo used to use him. roger williams uses a lot of characters though, so he doesn't have one team that he always uses with eagle on it. combofiend used eagle to beat lots of socal players in tourney situations, like amir, valle, etc etc etc.

    okay, play C-sak against me. cuz if the match is so lopsided, then it'll be an easy win for you irregardless of how good your sakura is, right? doesn't sakura own eagle worse than sagat? we'll see.

    peace
  • MAGUS1234MAGUS1234 walk forward Joined: Posts: 3,993
    you really need to stop bringing your eagle BS in here..yes we know YOU think he is top..keep it at that.You jus completely cluttered this thread with eagle crap...again

    and he doesn't counter p-cammy..no one does...she is god

    hey buck would you agree that p-cammy is the single best character in the game??She jus never gets to show how good she is because the limitations of p- and the other characters that follow.I hinestly think if this game was 1 on 1 she would be the best ...hands down...discuss?
    I came to Keystone II and all I got was DP'd.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    yep... we'll see. Only reason for me to play C or N Sak is cuz i don't even know my successrate with her CC seeing as how i don't play A much anymore. But yea I'm down. See I'd rather settle shit by playing the game rather than us both post 2342341232123 word essays which ends up with "I'm right because I am right." So here's to hoping i don't have midterms around that time and I get to go there.

    And Buktooth was making a point about how some players are just that much better and can afford to use shitty chars and still win. Plus being backed by Bison/Sak makes for an easy comeback if that char sucks it up (and which may very well happen). So if anything we can play out set on Single match mode where we are forced to only use that char. I mean you can enter a tourny of players worse than you and win with A dan/sak/bison... doesn't mean A Dan is the shit. That was the point about Sawada. And tournament results matter if they happen in masses, not just a one player freak incident.

    Magus....

    I agree about P Cammy. My friend plays her some, and it hard as hell to mount an offense on her. And if she gets you blocking, you can't even press buttons to get her off. Although if the game were in Single game mode, C Sagat and K Blanka would be dope as hell too. Just imagine, Blanka gets to keep those super bars too between rounds win or lose. Yea single match mode, K groove is a little more beefed up. A Sakura would be ok as well.
  • popoblopopoblo Joined: Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    MAGUS1234

    okay, i said eagle should be in the high mid tier, buk asked for clarification, and i gave it (but buktooth still hasn't countered my argument yet, so i was waiting for that). and yes, he does counter P-cammy. but fuck it, we'll play at the next evo to settle it.
  • gguseilagguseila Joined: Posts: 116
    imo i think of high tier as the chars with the most damage potential, priority, normals, and supers. and with that i mostly agree with buktooths list. the only thing i disagree with is vega, his speed and ability to build up bar quickly just makes him a different kind of top tier. his strengths are enough to make up for his weaknesses. oh ya and c-ryu should get some consideration also for upper mid.
  • LZJLZJ Joined: Posts: 545
    eagle > bison, guile, honda, cammy
    eagle x rolento, sakura, chun, blanka, sagat
    eagle < ???

    the x means hes even with but it all just is my opinion

    some people say eagle loses to sagat but i dont believe that bullshit. its mostly people who play roll-happy-sagats vs people who poke at the wrong times with eagle. then yeah sagat>eagle. but when eagle baits rolls and pokes smart. he can punish rolls for 50% custom combo or 50% level 2 into level 1. its very hard for eagle to get pressured because he has superior pokes, solid antiairs, a good roll vs fireballs (except sonic booms), and high damage combos. you shouuld take popoblo's post seriously. hes making some good points that people arent even listening to. theyre just disagreeing without knowing. sakura's RH gets punished by eagles standing fierce or even better activate standing fierce xx rush( A groove bullshit combo you know). and RC spin attack is a good lowjump stopper. even without RC he still has highcounter to deal with low jumps and low fierce at the right times. eagle is pretty toptier to me. i dont understand why people say hes not. hes got everything that toptier characters have and even more. ok bye.
    DO LESS
  • epsilon_epsilon_ helpful Joined: Posts: 3,582
    Screw Eagle. Does it really matter how good he is? Bottom line is hes not as good as any char in the top tier, or even most of the high-mid You can argue about matchups all you want, he just doesn't dominate as much as those guys, or even have really abuseable shit. Is he a good char? Yeah he is pretty good, but no one uses him because they can use Sagat who does the same things Eagle does, only better, and faster, and safer.
    i don't care what the critics say, violence is a beauuutiful thing!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    eagle has the goods for upper mid status. he's a great, solid character. he's just not one of the chosen gods of this game. i believe everyone can agree to that. can the topic please be changed?
  • snakedizzle209snakedizzle209 SnakeDux Joined: Posts: 777
    LZJ wrote:
    eagle > bison, guile, honda, cammy
    eagle x rolento, sakura, chun, blanka, sagat
    eagle < ???

    the x means hes even with but it all just is my opinion

    some people say eagle loses to sagat but i dont believe that bullshit. its mostly people who play roll-happy-sagats vs people who poke at the wrong times with eagle. then yeah sagat>eagle. but when eagle baits rolls and pokes smart. he can punish rolls for 50% custom combo or 50% level 2 into level 1. its very hard for eagle to get pressured because he has superior pokes, solid antiairs, a good roll vs fireballs (except sonic booms), and high damage combos. you shouuld take popoblo's post seriously. hes making some good points that people arent even listening to. theyre just disagreeing without knowing. sakura's RH gets punished by eagles standing fierce or even better activate standing fierce xx rush( A groove bullshit combo you know). and RC spin attack is a good lowjump stopper. even without RC he still has highcounter to deal with low jumps and low fierce at the right times. eagle is pretty toptier to me. i dont understand why people say hes not. hes got everything that toptier characters have and even more. ok bye.

    WOW!!! :wow: Are you finally considering Sakura to be top now? If so What is it that changed your mind? Her CCs and setups, her RC capabilities, the damage she can REALLY do with a good user or did you just see a good video. Anyways, Sakuras RH is maybe the best poke in the game, so if Eagle can stuff it then that makes him a better character than people think, but still, in the end Sakura > Eagle. Good match though. I also would have to say that Eagle is a pretty good matchup against Sagat. All I can say to prove it is that he owns Sagat's fierce. To be honest I dont really know why he isnt top tier. He's good and all, but I dont know about top.

    I would have to say that he's one of the best in the upper mid. But what would I know about Eagle. Theres only one fuckin' Eagle player in my entire area, but I know Eagle is good, because this guy owns alot of people with P-Eagle, Maki/Honda and R2 Yama. I dont really know if Eagles so good on P seeing as I dont know shit about Eagle. And for the record LZJ, you dont have to RC a spinning attack with Eagle to stop small jumps, he has plenty of normal AAs to keep Vega, Blanka, Bisons ETC. in check.

    IMO the chart is.....

    Top tier=Sagat, Cammy, Sakura, Bison, blanka, Vega, Geese, Guile

    Thats what I consider to be top IMO. I may be forgetting a few though, so nobody get on my nuts if I forgot an obvious top tier character.
    If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be somebody to ride you. - Bruce Lee
  • snakedizzle209snakedizzle209 SnakeDux Joined: Posts: 777
    Acually, IMO I think that Yamazaki and Rugal are still pretty high in mid tier. I dont know about Joe though. As a matter of fact I dont remember Joe ever dominating that much in CvS2.

    Rugal is an extreamly good character as well as Yama.
    spoony wrote:
    I know that if Yama has a weakness, it's that he's not exactly hot stuff in A-groove, so he's not going to get much play at all on any A-team.

    Yama has alot of weaknesses, but not because of his A-groove capabillities. Lots of characters suck on A-groove, but that doesnt really mean it's a weakness. Look at Sagat. Where are his CCs? Sagat is practically perfect. He may suck on A, but thats not really a weakness. As for A teams There are some characters that just arent made for A-groove. Doesnt make tham bad characters though.
    spoony wrote:
    Rugal? I remember some guys that were solid with him, but what happened to him anyway? Shouldn't RC fix his old weakness of unreliable AA?

    HUH?!?!?! Rugal didnt go anywhere. He's still used alot in C and N groove. And what exactly do you mean about Rugal not having any good AAs. Rugal is a huge threat there. It's best to play a good ground game against Rugal and stay in close. If you jump in or keep your distance you'll get owned. hmmmm... Sounds like a pretty good character to me.
    spoony wrote:
    Well, this thread went to hell pretty fast, and it didn't even require the input of sim_rock... is that guy still even around here?

    This thread hasnt went to hell... *cough YET cough*!!!!!
    If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be somebody to ride you. - Bruce Lee
  • LZJLZJ Joined: Posts: 545
    the people who say that eagle is shit compared to sagat really need to realize what the game is about. toptiers need many things to dominate over other characters. this is an obvious statement but you should all take into account what those things are. a good poke, antiair, damaging combo, some people would say abusable move or RC but i dont think its true. eagle's standing fierce punch alone dominates most characters in the game. the reach of this move is crazy and its uncrouchable (except for iori, maki, athena). many of you arent even making arguments to back up why you think sagat is light years better than eagle. the one advantage that sagat has is that he is able to combo in his supers from almost any of his pokes. thats a nice strength to have but you wont usually get this off in the heat of battle(expecially the people on this board who are just talking madness and repeating buk. yeah hes good but try figuring shit out for yourselves). the only person its a big factor against(toptier-wise) is cammy. she cant random cannonspike anymore against sagat because he can take off over half of her life if he has a level 2 or more. but i dont see sagat punishing sakura's RH with st. fierce into super very often at all. its nice he has it but nobody uses it enough to be "practical". i hate playing theory fighter but until i play everybody on this board i cant say shit cuz they'll just counter with blah blah blah its not true. anyways if anybody is up for a money match anywhere on the east coast gimme a pm. i'll play for up to $500.

    oh yeah snakedizzle that was my little cousin posting before just ignore all that bullshit.
    DO LESS
  • MAGUS1234MAGUS1234 walk forward Joined: Posts: 3,993
    the fact that some of you would say that s.fp is a dominating poke maks me realize the skill level im dealing with
    I came to Keystone II and all I got was DP'd.
  • jae hoonjae hoon Flames of Justice Joined: Posts: 12,824 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    LZJ wrote:
    the people who say that eagle is shit compared to sagat really need to realize what the game is about. .

    Well you would have a point if you werent the same guy who said Sakura was one of the worst characters in the game when A Sak is one of the best characters if not the best character in the game.

    Eagle is good no doubt high mid imo but he isnt Sagat that is true. Like I said you can play no groove Sagat and still have a chance just because its Sagat.

    Now onto something else

    Buk or anyone else who feels like commenting on this. You rate A Hibiki as the better Hibiki but I always felt K was alittle bit better although either isnt a wrong answer. Im going to guess that the reasoning is that she has about 800 different ways to setup her CC which does increadible damage but I could be wrong.
    SRK Kobrai Kai - Kickin bitches in the face since 2001
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Whatever happened to Yamazaki being high-mid?
  • epsilon_epsilon_ helpful Joined: Posts: 3,582
    I think N Yama is very high mid. Besides dying to like Vega and Sagat. But then again like every high mid char dies to like 2 characters. K and C yama are pretty good too, but I believe N Yama is the best.
    i don't care what the critics say, violence is a beauuutiful thing!
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    I've had like 1/3rd of a reply typed up and sitting there for the last few days. It's crunch time at work right now... haven't really had time for SRK shenanigans except for the random modding here and there.
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • popoblopopoblo Joined: Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    first off, it's funny how you guys think i'm starting some big flame war and starting a crusade to make eagle top tier. i said HIGH MID, not top. also, this is a good discussion, not a stupid flame war. anyways....

    LZJ

    thanks, it's nice to see that somebody else agrees with me and gets what i'm saying.

    epsilon

    you don't make any sense. just because eagle doesn't have something abusable doesn't mean he can't be high mid tier. no top tier character has something that is ABSOLUTELY ABUSABLE. cvs2 has evolved more than that. for example, sakura's standing rh is good, but she can't spam it all day for the win. same with sagat and blanka's crouching fierce. what ultimately DEFINES a top tier character is their favorable matchups, and that's what makes yamazaki not so hot (aka bad matchups against vega and sagat). but yet eagle's favorable matchups aren't applicable? i don't get it. and no, eagle and sagat aren't comparable at all.

    snakedizzle209

    okay, you acknowledge that eagle can punish sakura's standing rh, yet sakura somehow magically still wins the match? you're not providing enough support to prove a point. i'd like to hear what else you think on the matchup. but you said it yourself- you don't know shit about eagle. RC lariat IS the best low jump AA, and you DO need to RC it (RC mp lariat of course). and P is probably eagle's 3rd best groove, so you haven't faced eagle in his best groove, but it's okay because you still got to see his potential. geese IS NOT top tier, i don't know where you got that from.

    jae hoon

    well, A-hibiki won't die to A-groove like K-hibiki will. and yes, you're right. hibiki has a bunch of guaranteed methods of damage with her CC. and there's all the mixups you can do if your CC is being blocked....

    BUKTOOTH

    i look forward to your reply:tup:.

    peace
  • DooMDooM Joined: Posts: 1,036
    you say geese is not top tier, but isnt he one of the 3 best K-characters? next to Blanka and Sagat?
  • epsilon_epsilon_ helpful Joined: Posts: 3,582
    I'll take K Cammy before Geese any day.
    i don't care what the critics say, violence is a beauuutiful thing!
  • Legendary GokouLegendary Gokou 210Nem Joined: Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I think Eagle is top tier. The only thing that hurts him is that his really good pokes have a lot of lag. If you're caught up in footsies, your opponent can just roll and punish you with whatever he wants since he's still in recovery for a while. I can see the arguement both ways, though.

    Popoblo - I'd like to take you up on C-Eagle vs P-Cammy offer. I think he can counter Cammy well, but not P-Cammy. I'd be glad to be proven wrong.
    CFN: 210Nem
    SFV Karin
  • stream3stream3 Joined: Posts: 234
    any tips on beating K-eagle? that fool rapes me everytime
  • FatalFuryDFatalFuryD Feint Cancel Addict Joined: Posts: 956
    popoblo wrote:
    cheese_master

    FatalFuryD

    eagle can land his CC and do REAL damage easier in A-groove than comboing into his super in P/K. it's that simple.

    NOW i know why apoc said he doesn't post much about eagle, because people think you don't know your shit and wonder why you haven't gotten top 8 at evo with him or some stupid shit.

    peace

    I was asking about Vega. interesting anyway. but besides that, state exactly what your problem is with me cuz you're flamin folks who didn't even say shit on you
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  • popoblopopoblo Joined: Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Doom

    i've never heard geese even mentioned anywhere near the TOP tier. upper mid, absolutely, just not top tier. and i thought the top 2 characters in K-groove were sagat and cammy, not blanka, at least that's what i read in an old post from buk. i don't play K-groove=)

    Legendary Gokou

    you're right, eagle's standing fierce and crouching rh have a good amount of lag. that's why it's imperative for ANY eagle player to never press standing fierce unless it's for whiff punishing. otherwise, eagle will get smoked by rollers and jumpers all day. eagle isn't a "pattern" character, but more of a reactionary character who takes a lot of patience to be good with. besides, i think eagle's best poke is his crouching mk.

    C-eagle? no way man, i only play A-eagle. it's the same reason i don't play chun li in tournaments anymore- you miss her combo and have her kick super blocked, you're FUCKED. you're eating some massive damage. i've missed eagle's link into super in C-groove too many times, so i've learned my lesson. if i miss my link into CC, i can still do a safe blocked CC string and i'm not wide open, which is nice. but i look forward to our P-cammy vs A-eagle matchup:karate:.

    FatalFuryD

    my bad, i wrote eagle when i meant to put vega. i edited that, sorry. you asked about vega, so why should i write stuff about eagle in response to your question? it's difficult to combo into vega's claw super in P/K grooves when it's much easier to just activate and get damage easier. and my closing comment was just a general one, not directed towards you at all. people just started to give me some heat, so i put that. no problem with you at all man.

    peace
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    i keep reading that yama dies to sagat. not true. roundhouse and rc dust and snake keep him out and stop a lot of his rush. his standing lk becomes less of an annoyance because yama zones anyways. maybe it's just me but i see it as a fair fight. sagat has the advantage because he's sagat and he dominates everyone, but the fight is nowhere near one sided.
  • DooMDooM Joined: Posts: 1,036
    yea im not sure, it was two of Ino's characters + Geese afaik? :P

    Anyway, I've played alot of Eagle for quite some time, he can be hell for P and K-groovers unless theyre psychic, but I do remember the match from ECC9 I think, it was Eddie Lee vs Jason Cole or something? anyway, A vs K, and Eagle was like dominating the match, getting all the good hits vs Sagat, Sagat did 2 random fireball supers and Eagle got caught and Sagat won, that's my definition of fucked up for an Eagle player =(
  • snakedizzle209snakedizzle209 SnakeDux Joined: Posts: 777
    popoblo wrote:
    okay, you acknowledge that eagle can punish sakura's standing rh, yet sakura somehow magically still wins the match? you're not providing enough support to prove a point. i'd like to hear what else you think on the matchup. but you said it yourself- you don't know shit about eagle. RC lariat IS the best low jump AA, and you DO need to RC it (RC mp lariat of course). and P is probably eagle's 3rd best groove, so you haven't faced eagle in his best groove, but it's okay because you still got to see his potential. geese IS NOT top tier, i don't know where you got that from.

    I was just saying that in the end Sakura just has more going for her. Her whole game doesnt just revolve around her RH. I dont play Eagle, but I DO play Sakura, so I know what kind of shit to look out for when playing another character. And it doesnt matter that I havent played Eagle in his best groove, but that doesnt mean I dont know how to play against him. And your completely right, I dont know shit about Eagle. I was just saying that Eagle has some good AAs, because I get stuffed every time. I use K-Vega alot and Small jump is a big part of my style with Vega. I get stuffed by an Eagle who cant even RC. And against characters that are fast in terms of SJ, then isnt an RC move a little hard to do on reflex. Come on man. Theres no need to be so hostile. If anything I was agreeing with you. And I was just posting my opinion about Geese being top. I doubt he's in the mid tier even if it is high in the mid tier. He's got too much going for him to not be up there with Sagat and them.

    IMO
    Sagat, Cammy, Sakura, Blanka, Bison > Geese

    Geese > everyone else
    If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be somebody to ride you. - Bruce Lee
  • m1kekimm1kekim acquire currency! Joined: Posts: 453
    since no one seems to be answering these questions .. i'm gonna post here until i get some sort of response.

    where do K/C Rugal, K Geese, and C, N, K Yama fall in terms of tiers? Are they all mid? Apparently from the first post, it would seem so. But I've heard Rugal is lower mid - which I find hard to believe. IMO K Geese is pretty damn good (good priority, high damage when raged, smallest hit box, high life meter, etc), and only like 2 people every brought him up. A couple people brought up Yama - who seems to have high damage potential and a god like Standing roundhouse. Could someone give a good in depth look at their teiers?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    So what are the major weaknesses of Rugal, Joe, and Yama?

    And just where does Nakoruru stand? She's clearly not top, but in every discussion I see she alternates between the high-mid/low-top and the just plain low (!). RC hawk-grab overhead (can't remember it's name... I don't play her) seems awfully good, what with the invincibility cover on her going up, and the speed with which she comes down... In fact, the combining of at least that RC (doesn't even need the RC to be good..) with run seems to give her terrific pressuring power in N. But since I don't see her played much at all, I can't say much.
  • jae hoonjae hoon Flames of Justice Joined: Posts: 12,824 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Joe's weakness is Blanka and Yama.
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  • vasAZNion13vasAZNion13 Thank you Gene. Joined: Posts: 2,368
    Buktooth: i'm just wondering what's your stand on Maki? seeing how you used to play her, can you explain why you think the way you think about Maki's rank on the tier listing.
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  • LZJLZJ Joined: Posts: 545
    jae hoon wrote:
    Well you would have a point if you werent the same guy who said Sakura was one of the worst characters in the game when A Sak is one of the best characters if not the best character in the game.

    Eagle is good no doubt high mid imo but he isnt Sagat that is true. Like I said you can play no groove Sagat and still have a chance just because its Sagat.

    Now onto something else

    Buk or anyone else who feels like commenting on this. You rate A Hibiki as the better Hibiki but I always felt K was alittle bit better although either isnt a wrong answer. Im going to guess that the reasoning is that she has about 800 different ways to setup her CC which does increadible damage but I could be wrong.

    are you from new jersey? i'd love to play you some time.
    DO LESS
  • jae hoonjae hoon Flames of Justice Joined: Posts: 12,824 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    LZJ wrote:
    are you from new jersey? i'd love to play you some time.


    Lol no and yes I do know who you are. I just find it rather surprising that you would say something like that. I would think you would be joking about that but it sounded pretty serious as this isnt the first thread you have said it in. Its common knowledge about how good Sak is and to say she isnt is just rather stupid honestly.

    In from Washington actually but im deploying in this Hell called Iraq.

    Spoony: To expound alittle more, Joe has trouble stopping small jumps, he doesnt have a reliable ground AA, so C groove eats him alive and he has not backup AA besides super for people who can parry well. He is to reliant on his crouching short for a reliable super combo. He has no air game to speak of. Those are some reasons why he might not be considered mid top tier.

    He does however have a bit of an underrated roll, its not great but its good enough. He has an excellent pressure and chip damage game. His crouching jabs and crouching shorts are fast. I dont need to mention his lvl3 double upper. His screw upper is surprisngly quick and is good for people who love to small jump. He has an Iori like super combo. He has good speed to get across the playing field. He has a good projectile if used correctly and not abused. He also has a good RC with his RC Crazy Hands, the crazy hands are linkable to but its hella hard to pull off.
    SRK Kobrai Kai - Kickin bitches in the face since 2001
  • LZJLZJ Joined: Posts: 545
    jae hoon wrote:
    Lol no and yes I do know who you are. I just find it rather surprising that you would say something like that. I would think you would be joking about that but it sounded pretty serious as this isnt the first thread you have said it in. Its common knowledge about how good Sak is and to say she isnt is just rather stupid honestly.

    In from Washington actually but im deploying in this Hell called Iraq.

    Spoony: To expound alittle more, Joe has trouble stopping small jumps, he doesnt have a reliable ground AA, so C groove eats him alive and he has not backup AA besides super for people who can parry well. He is to reliant on his crouching short for a reliable super combo. He has no air game to speak of. Those are some reasons why he might not be considered mid top tier.

    He does however have a bit of an underrated roll, its not great but its good enough. He has an excellent pressure and chip damage game. His crouching jabs and crouching shorts are fast. I dont need to mention his lvl3 double upper. His screw upper is surprisngly quick and is good for people who love to small jump. He has an Iori like super combo. He has good speed to get across the playing field. He has a good projectile if used correctly and not abused. He also has a good RC with his RC Crazy Hands, the crazy hands are linkable to but its hella hard to pull off.

    youre going to iraq? thats too bad. goodluck, dont lose your head :tup:
    DO LESS
  • jae hoonjae hoon Flames of Justice Joined: Posts: 12,824 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Actually im already here, ive been here for like 7 or 8 months, I lost track.

    Just out of curiosity, why did you say Sak sucks.
    SRK Kobrai Kai - Kickin bitches in the face since 2001
  • LZJLZJ Joined: Posts: 545
    read my argument. you know why i said it.
    DO LESS
  • Mr.SNKMr.SNK . . . . -B Joined: Posts: 1,809 mod
    Um Geese has three bad match ups in my book, Yama Vega and Geese.

    Because they can all out range him, well except for geese.
    A article on how to get better at fighting games, give it a read you might learn something.
    http://shoryuken.com/blogs/mr-snk/learning-how-get-better-fighting-games-1456/#comments
    Random E.Honda footage/My Youtube page.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/MrSNK
  • Nick T.Nick T. Joined: Posts: 3,976
    People are failing to realize what LZJ is trying to point out. He's arguing that if a character has certain strengths/weaknesses that may/may not make them top tier, those factors should be considered first before throwing in the "RC through it." remark. Thats why he mentioned basics in his first post and why he mentioned Sakura was a bad character. If there weren't RC she would be a horrible character. All she would have is st. RH and st. jab.

    One thing I learned is that you may be good at RCing, but under pressure there's still the fuck up factor. You fuck up, you're dead.

    That's all he's trying to say.
    "It's not your characters' weakness, but weakness in yourself.
    Practice it hard and you can beat anybody." -Kuni
  • snakedizzle209snakedizzle209 SnakeDux Joined: Posts: 777
    MrSNK wrote:
    Um Geese has three bad match ups in my book, Yama Vega and Geese.

    Because they can all out range him, well except for geese.

    Geese owns Vega for free. All you have to do is keep the pressure on and keep him out of the air.
    Nick T. wrote:
    One thing I learned is that you may be good at RCing, but under pressure there's still the fuck up factor. You fuck up, you're dead.

    Ok first off, Sakura isnt' ALL about RC. And with Sakura the more pressure your under the better, because if there trying to rush you then just roll cancel. And fucking up isnt really a factor. If you fuck up then it's your fault and not the character's fault. If your really worried about fucking up then just practice. And you say that Sakura sucks without RC. Thats not true at all. you said that all she has is st. RH and st. jab, but st.RH is one of the best pokes in the game and you can just use that, her BnB, a reliable AA and CCs just to make her an extreamly good character. She's TOP tier without RC, but RC is what make her GOD tier.

    LZJ I have one question for you. Everyone seems to think that you are Josh Wong. Is this true? :confused:
    If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be somebody to ride you. - Bruce Lee
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    snake: vega rapes geese. too much speed and range. k geese is probably the best to have in the match up because of jd and the lucky super factor, but rushing vega down is really difficult. you'll end up eating standing'crouching mp and rc ball all day.
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