The Ongoing Tier Thread

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  • FSgamerFSgamer Cheap Tactics!!! Joined: Posts: 1,315
    N - Groove tiers
    Top

    I'd move Chun Li to top, slightly above Sagat.
    -Sagat has a good ground game with s.LK & c.HP, and lj.HK is pretty annoying, but he can only do big damage when he has a lvl 3 and he needs to get in to land that lvl 3.
    -Chun Li can do pretty good damage with lvl 1 super (which ends with sj.HK and sets up all kinds of nasty mix-ups afterwards, thus keeping Chun Li on the advantage) and she can combo into super from far away with s.MP. Also, she has good pressure strings with running c.LP & (cross-up) lj.LK. She has a good roll & counter-roll (counter-roll > super them in the back can save your life in some situations). I'm not really crazy about putting her first but she can do well as either user or anchor.

    Upper Mid

    I'd divide this in three groups:
    1) Hibiki, Cammy, Iori, Blanka
    2) Ken, Akuma
    3) Rolento, Honda, Guile, Kyo, Geese, Rock, Vega

    -Hibiki has good mix-ups, RC Distance Slash helps her ground game, RC Running Slash is a good "back up off me" move, lvl 3 Deadly Rave > lvl 1 Dash Super does great damage.
    -Cammy doesn't have parry/JD, but she still has great normals and good offense (easy ways to hitconfirm into super, good guard crush potential, etc). Guard crush/throw mix-ups become more dangerous when she's powered-up (she can guard crush faster and throws do significant more damage).
    -Iori is a pretty solid character overall. Good ground game, good mix-ups, very dangerous when up close, can do good damage without meter, builds meter fast, good guard crush patterns. The only cons is that his super does average damage and he can be pretty inconsistent sometimes.
    -Blanka is kind of like Sagat & Cammy in the sense that he can do well in pretty much any groove. lj.HK is hard to react to, RC Electricity is even more retarded when he's powered-up. If he had easy ways to combo into super he'd be higher in this list.

    -N-Ken is a very underrated character IMO. lj.HK is good for keeping pressure, (cross-up) lj.MK is annoying, running gives him good pressure strings (c.LP, s.HK > run, c.LP, s.HK/throw/lj.MK/etc), run c.MK xx lvl 3 is a great whiff punisher, power-up makes his mix-ups even scarier. If you want play rushdown Ken then you want to play N-Ken.
    -Akuma has good offense, kara canceled normals > Raging Demon work well, but he lacks a defensive move to get him out of pressure situations (something like Ken's RC Funky Kick), and he has low stamina.

    -Rolento can still runaway pretty well in N, he still has RCs, pretty solid character overall.
    -Honda & Guile are kind of the same category, they can still turtle well in N, they still have RCs, but they don't have stored lvl 3's like they do in C. Both are solid still.
    -Kyo has good mix-ups with low jumps, RC Rekka Kens help his ground game. Good character if you ask me, although not as good as P/K-Kyo.
    -Geese & Rock are good in N, IMO. Not having parry/JD makes a little hard for them to get in. Like Hibiki, they can combo Deadly Rave > lvl 1 Super, which leads to a lot of damage.
    -Vega can't easily combo into super but he has good normals, RC Rolling Claw (which becomes more annoying when he's powered-up), lj.HK is annoying, running c. MP is a great whiff punisher.

    I don't have enough knowledge to write a full list but I'd probably put Mai, Yamazaki, Kim, Dhalsim, Sakura, and maybe Eagle & Todo next, followed by Vice, Maki, Ryu, Morrigan, Bison, and maybe Terry in the bottom of the mid tier section.

    I know there are a lot lof characters missing, it's just that I don't have enough knowledge to decide where they should go.
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  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,211 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    n-yamazaki should be up there. imo, hes better than cammy in N
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • FSgamerFSgamer Cheap Tactics!!! Joined: Posts: 1,315
    n-yamazaki should be up there. imo, hes better than cammy in N
    I don't know much about Yamazaki. Could you elaborate on that?
    FSgamer aka FS7 --- Cheap Tactics for the Win ---

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  • casey_MDKcasey_MDK Original DOA scrub Joined: Posts: 302
    n-yamazaki should be up there. imo, hes better than cammy in N

    I should probably bump him, he's really buff. But...Better than Cammy? Overall, I don't particularly agree with that. There's NO character that can completely shut down Cammy. Cammy's hell of a lot easier to play, and generally much more effective.

    Sure, Yama's got 50/50s, but Cammy can pressure you so well, she's JUST as likely to land that super, either through guard break (or punishing you for trying to stop a guard break), random ass fierce, or grab you to death (I SWEAR that grab range is not normal.)

    ...Of course, my Cammy knowledge is a lot better than my Yama knowledge. Perhaps someone else could get in on this?
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  • SmoothCatSmoothCat ダウンに戻る神 Joined: Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    lets get mad about video games

    i think im going to rant on my vlog about cvs2
    hahaha yo that av is killing me :rofl::rofl:
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  • LaicramLaicram Joined: Posts: 102
    I believe the dust has settled, and unless there's a mass-campaign for a character promotion/demotion, this should be the final list. It's been a fun group project! Thanks again to everyone who gave input on honing the list. It would have been inaccurate without your help.

    I hope new players will find this useful in gauging the potential strength of their c-groove teams. Enjoy - and remember not to take this list too seriously, because 1) the main tier thread matters more and 2) this is "close enough" guideline, so don't sweat the minor details ^^


    C-Groove tier list (final?)

    Top
    sagat

    High "widely regarded as great in C"
    blanka - strong defensively
    vega(claw) - strong defensively
    ken - high damage potential
    chun li - high damage potential
    cammy - see daigo
    rolento - see kim "ohayo1234", iyo
    honda - see mago
    guile - see choi, nakanishi, daigo

    Upper-Mid "tournament stand-outs"
    hibiki - see kurosu "cross"
    yama - see shiro
    iori - see kurosu "cross"
    sakura - choi
    ryu - see gao, danimitsu, choi
    maki - see iyo
    chang - see kousaka, mulder
    dhalsim - see iyo

    Mid "has yet to make an impact on the tournament scene"
    kim, kyo, m.bison(dic), rugal, eagle, balrog(boxer), geese, raiden, joe, yun, todo, rock, akuma, mai, terry

    Low "..."
    morrigan, vice, athena, yuri, beni, king, kyosuke, nak, haoh, ryo, gief, dan



    Good luck on the other tier lists! The remaining grooves are less explored, and that will make it hard to compile tiers that aren't "pure theory" after top/high.


    - Marcial
  • UtsusemiUtsusemi S.O.N.S Joined: Posts: 200
    ...Why is Bison Mid?....
  • FSgamerFSgamer Cheap Tactics!!! Joined: Posts: 1,315
    Good luck on the other tier lists! The remaining grooves are less explored, and that will make it hard to compile tiers that aren't "pure theory" after top/high.
    True.

    I'm waiting to see if anybody will come up with a tier list for S-groove.
    That should be interesting.
    FSgamer aka FS7 --- Cheap Tactics for the Win ---

    random CvS2 player
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    According to you, everything that yama sticks out is easily whiff punished into whatever poke x super :rolleyes: ive NEVER had ANYONE whiff punish st.mk but i guess the people i play against are just retarded:rolleyes:

    newsflash: some people are good at this game!

    if i lived in a world where nobody whiff punished anything, i'd be 5x evo champion
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • GunterJPNGunterJPN Ghetto Gief Joined: Posts: 380
    ...Why is Bison Mid?....

    Because he sucks, but not as much as the low tier.

    Standard normals.
    No abuseable RCs (AA Psycho Crusher is about it).
    Ho-hum level 2 cancel that more often than not is only setup with a roll.

    I'm more scared of C-Geese than C-Bison, but since the mid tier isn't subdivided, I can live with them in the same tier.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    edit: forget it, everything yama sticks out is easily whiff punishable :rolleyes:
  • ramzaramza hmmm Joined: Posts: 2,481
    newsflash: i didnt say whiff punish anything, i said st.mk

    ...wtf are you talking about

    regardless, it'd be naive to think that some things in matchups aren't worth considering because they're "hard". i find it a strain to whiff punish sagat cr fierce with chun strong, but good players do it.
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  • MGSMGS RTJRecon Joined: Posts: 1,016
    does choi even use c-Ryu anymore most matches i see now have him playing ken or sakura its been a long time since i've seen a really good c ryu.

    i missed the whole yama vs cammy debate. i think yama can handle her as good as anyone else in the game can. don't underestimate the fact that he can push her away with one block string maybe i suck but i like yama poking against cammy. yeah she can punish his whiffs be he can punish hers as well not saying he's gonna make a super come out of his st. hk but he's got more life and takes more life hit for hit. not to mention the oh so annoying rc snake arm
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  • casey_MDKcasey_MDK Original DOA scrub Joined: Posts: 302
    N - Groove tiers draft 2

    Top (no particular order)

    Sagat (He's Sagat.)
    Chun (Good ground game with running jabs, standing strong, crouching strong (goes under a LOT) low jump fierce , low jump shorts, great lvl 1s, great RCs.)
    Blanka (Running shorts for pressure aren't too bad, low jump RH is a bitch, RC elec, great pokes...He's Blanka.)

    Upper Mid (no particular order)

    Cammy (It's her worst groove IMO, but she's freakin Cammy. Unless fierce and roundhouse are broken, you'll do fine. But IMO, she's not top without JD / parry)
    Akuma (Health is so bad...Good damage even without meter, builds meter great, two frame shoryuken, air fireball is good, decent RCs...But GOD, that life...)
    Hibiki (Great pokes, good lvl 3, low jump strong / roundhouse, RC run slash / distance slash is okay. Overall, solid as a character, just a little laggy)
    Iori (Go watch Buk vids)
    Vega (He doesn't gain much from N, but he's still good. Great pokes, RCs, low jumps are okay. Builds great.)
    Guile (The loss of lvl 2 cancels really, really sucks. Low jumps aren't too bad, good pokes, keeps you out great. Sonic Hurricane!)
    Ken (He's Ken, he's hella flexible. low jumps help him a lot, RC funky kick, easy to hit confirm super. Pokes are a little lacking. Great shoryuken.)
    Honda (My Honda knowledge is lacking...He's still got roll though. And his RCs are just too good. Grab mixups ftw.)
    Rolento (Great run away, great mix ups, low jump strong, builds meter. Hang em)

    Mid (no particular order)

    Athena (CROUCHING FIERCE! Good pokes, RC command grab is good, but lack of damage keeps her from the top)
    Dhalsim (Can keep you out fairly well, has a surprisingly decent close up game. Good supers.)
    Eagle (pokes are good, but a little laggy. RC gives him a nice AA. Good low jumps.)
    Geese? (Doesn't gain much from having roll, except RC reppukens. Having three stocks can help is guard crush game, which is already awesome. Could be high mid, but no JD is kinda...Eh. I'm still uncertain if I should move him up a tier or not...)
    Joe (Solid mid tier. Good normals. Jab FB is good for corner pressure. Fuck that sweep...Roll is nothing great, neither are his low jumps. Annoying enough to be a solid mid tier)
    Kim (Short short short super. Woooo. His RCs aren't great, but that roll is good. Harder to tigerknee his kicks, but those aren't particularly necessary to his game. Low jump RH is great. Good pokes.)
    Kyo (puts out some decent damage. Good RCs, low jumps, I'm sure everyone knows, are good. No parry / JDs leave some holes in his game...)
    Bison (counter xx Lvl 3 is fun, but is baited out pretty easy. Good supers, low jump Roundhouse is great, but I'd take dash over run any day. Good, but not great.)
    Mai (Fast run, great low jumps, easy hit-confirm xx lvl 3, but outside of burning meter doesn't do much damage.)
    Maki (Pop grab ftw. Relies a little too much on risky mixups, but does great damage when she nails something. Not bad RCs, but I don't really like her low jumps. Good pokes. If it was easier to combo without having to burn life with her, she might have been high mid.)
    Morrigan (maybe high mid thanks to buk...her match-ups, shit health, and inability to do a lot of damage without meter are the questionable part though. Doesn't need low jump, but she DOES need run. Pretty good pokes, can confuse the shit out of people,)
    Nako (Don't know much about Nako, but from what I've seen she's a solid mid, and N groove isn't really gonna change that.)
    Raiden (My Raiden knowledge is lacking as well...can't seem to find a good AA for him)
    Rock (Basically K Rock without JD. It's an awesome tool for him, but without it, he's down to mid.)
    Ryu (Solid all around. Nothing particularly outstanding. Decent pokes, good fireball, hit confirm super with shorts.)
    Sakura (Meter-building bitch. Run isn't too bad with her. Neither is low jump. Nothing too spectacular from N.)
    Todo (Chip fiend. RC command grab is great. Roll kinda sucks. Hard to tigerknee fireball, and it's a GREAT tool.)
    Vice (Very good as a battery, but only average as far as damage goes. If she could combo to super, I'd definitely bump her a tier. But she LOSES damage potential in the corner. WTF. And no, tigerknee legs straight up is not a practical option.)
    Yama? (maybe high mid...maybe. Pop grab super is fun. Still has those damn 50/50s. Run helps his rushdown / guard crush game, low jump roundhouse is buff. Still not sure on if I should bump him...I really want to though. Still need more input. )
    Terry (Good roll, lj.HK, easy ways to combo into super off close fierce & low shorts (even at lvl 1), good damage off lvl 1 super (lvl 1 Buster Wolf > Burning Knucle, or lvl 1 Buster Wolf > lvl 1 Power Geiser), good damage potential with full meter (lvl 3 Buster Wolf > lvl 1 Power Geiser) - credit to FSgamer)

    Lower Mid - Low

    Everybody else...Someone feel free to do this section for me...>.>;
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  • CMXCMX Hateful Henry Joined: Posts: 1,178
    does choi even use c-Ryu anymore most matches i see now have him playing ken or sakura its been a long time since i've seen a really good c ryu.

    i missed the whole yama vs cammy debate. i think yama can handle her as good as anyone else in the game can. don't underestimate the fact that he can push her away with one block string maybe i suck but i like yama poking against cammy. yeah she can punish his whiffs be he can punish hers as well not saying he's gonna make a super come out of his st. hk but he's got more life and takes more life hit for hit. not to mention the oh so annoying rc snake arm

    that full BnB block string can also lead to death since Cammy can reversal time punish it with her kick super.
    Making Designer Combos
  • FSgamerFSgamer Cheap Tactics!!! Joined: Posts: 1,315
    N - Groove tiers draft 2
    Add Terry to the mid tiers.
    Good roll, lj.HK, easy ways to combo into super off close fierce & low shorts (even at lvl 1), good damage off lvl 1 super (lvl 1 Buster Wolf > Burning Knucle, or lvl 1 Buster Wolf > lvl 1 Power Geiser), good damage potential with full meter (lvl 3 Buster Wolf > lvl 1 Power Geiser).
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  • casey_MDKcasey_MDK Original DOA scrub Joined: Posts: 302
    Add Terry to the mid tiers.
    Good roll, lj.HK, easy ways to combo into super off close fierce & low shorts (even at lvl 1), good damage off lvl 1 super (lvl 1 Buster Wolf > Burning Knucle, or lvl 1 Buster Wolf > lvl 1 Power Geiser), good damage potential with full meter (lvl 3 Buster Wolf > lvl 1 Power Geiser).

    Okay, I'll add him on. I've been on the fence about him for a while now.
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  • Kikou-shouKikou-shou Delete the streaming Joined: Posts: 51
    I find terry has an annoying amount of knock back. While by no means top he is solid in pretty much every area in the game, but doesnt excel in many specific areas. Just my opinion, but Id put him in upper mid.
    15 years of playing Chun. Wish I didn't suck.
  • PieguyPieguy 3.1415926535897932 Joined: Posts: 1,650
    Am I the only one who thinks Terry has some of the worst specials in the game? Power wave is average at best (it ain't no reppuken that's for sure w/ 16 frame startup). Power dunk is just crap and burn knuckle has TERRIBLE startup and leaves you open for days after a block. Rising tackle would be better if it didn't have average priority (honestly how can u give a charge d, u+p bad priority?). Crack shoot would be a ton better if it was lower to the ground, but its good point is it's very safe on block.

    I will admit though that terry has some pretty good pokes and above average super cancels which is why he isn't a second King.

    It seems like if you like Terry, you should be playing rock :\.
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  • JJJJJJ Joined: Posts: 2,176
    True.

    I'm waiting to see if anybody will come up with a tier list for S-groove.
    That should be interesting.

    I can probably write one, but the categories would be something like characters with abusable lv 1 supers and characters who can win with just dodge counters. no one would care anyway..lol
  • MGSMGS RTJRecon Joined: Posts: 1,016
    that full BnB block string can also lead to death since Cammy can reversal time punish it with her kick super.

    which is why you wouldn't do it when she has a lvl 3 available but i thought that was pretty obvious. my point is he can deal with her
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  • HellionHellion .5 Beat Combat Joined: Posts: 888
    Am I the only one who thinks Terry has some of the worst specials in the game? Power wave is average at best (it ain't no reppuken that's for sure w/ 16 frame startup). Power dunk is just crap and burn knuckle has TERRIBLE startup and leaves you open for days after a block. Rising tackle would be better if it didn't have average priority (honestly how can u give a charge d, u+p bad priority?). Crack shoot would be a ton better if it was lower to the ground, but its good point is it's very safe on block.

    I will admit though that terry has some pretty good pokes and above average super cancels which is why he isn't a second King.

    It seems like if you like Terry, you should be playing rock :\.

    Powerwave following certain knockdowns under certain conditions is a good meaty starter for some guardstrings/hi 'n low/throw mixups.
    Full screen it's not half bad for getting in/forcing the opponent to try something.
    Otherwise don't touch it.

    Burn Knuckle/powerdunk are strictly for combos only, though you can RC Burn Knuckle through repetitive shit.

    RC LK Crackshoot isn't half bad for guard strings following a max range s.mk; kinda sets it up so that it's almost Cammy-esque in the same manner as a well placed cannon drill. Invincible, it's descent DP bait in this manner. RC MK could be used to nail predicted jump in attempts at the same range or just slightly further out, and if you didn't you at least still have df+HP, d+HP or if you've got meter lvl 1 or pop lvl 3 Power Geysers.

    Rising Tackle is alright.
    LP version to beat pokes on the ground on wakeup, if blocked you recover fast enough to block or go for a counter-hit vs some characters (depending on various factors such as walk speed, normals, abusable RC's)
    MP/HP can be used as descent anti-airs, just have to do them late so their invincibility kicks in.
    Hell Ryu's DP can be "beat" once it's invulnerability's gone, so I fail to see your point on this count unless you're simply doing it at the wrong time.

    Rock is not a better Terry per se, nor is Terry a worse Rock; they are completely different characters. Never mind the similarity in some of their moves, the data and feel are completely different from run speeds, low jumps, and normals, cancels, and supers.

    Kikou-shou wrote:
    Just my opinion, but Id put him in upper mid.
    Nah, he's strictly mid at best man.
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  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,211 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    power dunk used to be so good in cvs1 or so i heard.
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • PieguyPieguy 3.1415926535897932 Joined: Posts: 1,650
    Powerwave following certain knockdowns under certain conditions is a good meaty starter for some guardstrings/hi 'n low/throw mixups.
    Full screen it's not half bad for getting in/forcing the opponent to try something.
    Otherwise don't touch it.
    Agreed. Just your normal projectile but average at best.
    Burn Knuckle/powerdunk are strictly for combos only, though you can RC Burn Knuckle through repetitive shit.
    The way burn knuckle is designed with that stupid jumping jack animation always made it a turn-off to me for RCing.
    RC LK Crackshoot isn't half bad for guard strings following a max range s.mk; kinda sets it up so that it's almost Cammy-esque in the same manner as a well placed cannon drill. Invincible, it's descent DP bait in this manner. RC MK could be used to nail predicted jump in attempts at the same range or just slightly further out, and if you didn't you at least still have df+HP, d+HP or if you've got meter lvl 1 or pop lvl 3 Power Geysers.
    Crackshoot definitely has its uses I will agree, but I just wish it wasn't so designed so poorly in terms of how it hits. It's definitely safe to throw out, especially RC'd, but it contacts people at the very end of the animation, and it is arced very high. This makes it very predictable and less dangerous as your opponent has more time to react accordingly whether it be to parry, jd or roll. If it worked like Kim's Hangetsu Zan (fast and hits low) and was safe on block, well that'd make it a winner.
    Rising Tackle is alright.
    LP version to beat pokes on the ground on wakeup, if blocked you recover fast enough to block or go for a counter-hit vs some characters (depending on various factors such as walk speed, normals, abusable RC's)
    MP/HP can be used as descent anti-airs, just have to do them late so their invincibility kicks in.
    Hell Ryu's DP can be "beat" once it's invulnerability's gone, so I fail to see your point on this count unless you're simply doing it at the wrong time.

    The thing is, Ryu's DP can be beat but it's invulnerability window is HUGE. 8 full body followed by 4 upper body compared to 4 full body and 14 upper is just no comparison. When you jump in on Rising Tackle with upper tier characters who have high priority jump-ins, you usually trade unfavorably which I find incredibly dumb. It's very hard to always time your RS to hit late. Also, Rising Tackle's design being a charge down is a big weakness imo because it doesn't mesh with Terry's other abilities. You're constantly losing your charge and it just doesn't seem favorable to use RT when you can s.rh which is an above average normal. Getting rising tackle to hit is just a pain in the ass too cause they have to be super close.
    Rock is not a better Terry per se, nor is Terry a worse Rock; they are completely different characters. Never mind the similarity in some of their moves, the data and feel are completely different from run speeds, low jumps, and normals, cancels, and supers.

    I know they're different characters but it just seems that all of rock's specials that mirror terry's just seem better. Better projectile, hard edge > burn knuckle and rock has slightly more invincibility (upper) on his rising tackle. But yes, they play completely different and one of em is a lot better then the other :confused:. Mid at best for sure.

    A bit off-topic but why do new people who start this game always choose terry? Like nobody ever starts CvS2 and picks up a character like dhalsim or geese. Is he just appealing or something cause of the FF series?
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  • ramzaramza hmmm Joined: Posts: 2,481
    A bit off-topic but why do new people who start this game always choose terry? Like nobody ever starts CvS2 and picks up a character like dhalsim or geese. Is he just appealing or something cause of the FF series?

    probably not the exact reason, but I see alot of Mexicans picking Terry in CvS1...and the one time i saw said mexican play cvs2 he went straight to terry. oh ya, if you've never played cvs1 terry is extremely gay. basically mash on roll while pressing on fierce to tech throws. and how could i forget roll> rising tackle...
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  • PieguyPieguy 3.1415926535897932 Joined: Posts: 1,650
    hahaha random. It's actually the same thing here at my local arcade. Why do Mexicans like terry? But then again, why do asians like rice and why do black people like chicken? Who knows?
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I'm curious. Bison for which groove is mid tier??? I hope no one is saying A. I think he would be at least a high mid. He has decent pokes in all the groves, he has AWSOME short jump double punches, and he builds meter quick [maybe not as quick as A Sak or Rolento, but still good enough]. Im just saying, he would be high mid, to top tier [as a matter of fact, all the "Boss" Characters are high mid at least if Im not mistaken].
  • PieguyPieguy 3.1415926535897932 Joined: Posts: 1,650
    I'm curious. Bison for which groove is mid tier??? I hope no one is saying A. I think he would be at least a high mid. He has decent pokes in all the groves, he has AWSOME short jump double punches, and he builds meter quick [maybe not as quick as A Sak or Rolento, but still good enough]. Im just saying, he would be high mid, to top tier [as a matter of fact, all the "Boss" Characters are high mid at least if Im not mistaken].

    Bison is mid in pretty much everything other than A :\. Maybe slightly better in C or N simply because of RC psycho crushers but in general, Bison is an A-groove take it or leave it. Stupid fence painter.
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  • m216xlegendxm216xlegendx samsho cluck Joined: Posts: 380
    Ive played this game since it came out, but never at any high competetive level ,just amongst my friends.

    my question is can terry be used good enough to beat the best players with the best characters. Terry has always been my favorite but it seems he pretty low on the totem poll , thanks in advance.
    You couldnt beat the shi& out a bag of shi%.
  • HellionHellion .5 Beat Combat Joined: Posts: 888
    The way burn knuckle is designed with that stupid jumping jack animation always made it a turn-off to me for RCing.
    He's gathering ki man, he's not born with natural power like Kyo or Iori, plus he's white so it just doesn't come naturally to him, give him a break:rofl:

    This makes it very predictable and less dangerous as your opponent has more time to react accordingly whether it be to parry, jd or roll.
    Well, if they roll the RC LK on reaction you'll recover from the whiff animation before they can do anything so you're good.
    Parry and JD they'd have to be regular jumping and not low jumping, which a lot of characters with good low jumps would be a little more prone to do.
    So far as anticipation goes, if Terry's anticipating a P or K groover jumping after a blocked string throwing out the LK version is a relatively safe bet because you'll be on your feet and they parry or JD, the parry they continue flying overhead and JD they bounce back.
    Getting punished if the RC Short Crack Shoot was anticipated at this "Critical Point" as Sirlin calls it would require some really good anticipation and fast reflexes and a good fast heavy jump in attack.

    In reality though most Terry's dont do shit like this, all I see from these scrub Terry's are roll->rising tackle.


    You're constantly losing your charge and it just doesn't seem favorable to use RT when you can s.rh which is an above average normal. Getting rising tackle to hit is just a pain in the ass too cause they have to be super close.
    Well it's strictly a wakeup option, and when they're on the ground next to you, a.k.a. "super close," LP Rising Tackle beats what they do, provided it's not RC'd, if blocked it's generally safe from most everything. Whiffed (ala anticipated) of course you're hurting.
    He has other anti-airs and he's a pressure, in your face sort of character besides.

    But yes, they play completely different and one of em is a lot better then the other :confused:. Mid at best for sure.
    Well Terry's about guard crush and Rock landing his shinku nage mixups, which all lead to supers, which is why I said Terry is sorta Chun-li esque in the lvl 1 super department in N-groove, and Iori-esque in getting in...
    His Buster Wolf is generally safe on Block, the Shin Knuckle isn't
    Rock's Raging Storm is better than Power Geyser, but Terry playing offensively can use Power Geyser to knock opponents back into the corner the same way Rock can "trap them" with his Raging Storm.
    He just lacks a good RC which could be used as a poke like Iori, as well as Iori's far s.HK. He makes up for that with his other normals, which complement his low jump fairly well.
    Rock doesn't really Guard Crush or play footsies the same way Terry potentially could (and I stress, could), Rock has more tricks and mixups to land his supers with and an even more annoying sweep and his godly s.HK for anti-air, he's arguably the better character in the zoning department.
    A bit off-topic but why do new people who start this game always choose terry? Like nobody ever starts CvS2 and picks up a character like dhalsim or geese. Is he just appealing or something cause of the FF series?

    Dunno.
    "No one quits SRK. NO ONE" -wepeel
    P-Kyo(2), Guile, Cammy
    ST-Guile
  • RenegadeRenegade Joined: Posts: 3,128 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I'm going to defend C-Bison a bit here. C-Bison is really solid. His normals are great, great crossup, and very easy ways to combo either a lvl2 or a lvl3.
    On certain characters or during certain animations, Super Psycho Crusher will bounce an opponent back into it, resulting in massive damage! It's also stupid quick, causing many moves in the game to become dangerous to do (Blanka/Vega Slide, Blanka Ball hit, Hibiki Slash hit, Sagat S.Forward, most sweeps).
    Also, he has a safe (-2) Lvl 2 that has a damaging cancel. Really good if your oppenent leaves holes in his poke strings or is a bit too predictable (i.e. canceling into fireballs)

    Anyway, not saying C bison is godlike or anything, but I don't see C Iori, C Maki, C Chang, or C Dhalsim owning him up at all.
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  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    He has other anti-airs

    Wanna rethink that one?
  • boxbox Joined: Posts: 1,611
    Wanna rethink that one?

    Down-forward Fierce is a good anti-air for Terry. As is RC-power dunk, however it is very angle specific.
  • UtsusemiUtsusemi S.O.N.S Joined: Posts: 200
    I'm going to defend C-Bison a bit here. C-Bison is really solid. His normals are great, great crossup, and very easy ways to combo either a lvl2 or a lvl3.
    On certain characters or during certain animations, Super Psycho Crusher will bounce an opponent back into it, resulting in massive damage! It's also stupid quick, causing many moves in the game to become dangerous to do (Blanka/Vega Slide, Blanka Ball hit, Hibiki Slash hit, Sagat S.Forward, most sweeps).
    Also, he has a safe (-2) Lvl 2 that has a damaging cancel. Really good if your oppenent leaves holes in his poke strings or is a bit too predictable (i.e. canceling into fireballs)

    Anyway, not saying C bison is godlike or anything, but I don't see C Iori, C Maki, C Chang, or C Dhalsim owning him up at all.

    Thank you.
  • HellionHellion .5 Beat Combat Joined: Posts: 888
    Wanna rethink that one?

    Not really.
    I know we had this discussion on that point before comparing Yama's similarly angled poke to Terry's df+HP, but it's not half bad if spaced correctly, and it takes up a descent amount of space.
    No his walking speed isn't the best for that but he can run forward df+HP.
    It comes out in 3 frames.
    It also cancels.
    While I am sure there are pokes that beat it priority wise, it still anti-airs.
    d+HP is Bison-like in usage.

    Anti-airs aside, Terry doesn't exactly strike me as a character capable of holding his own attrition wise for turtle style players outside of A or P Groove.
    He's best when attacking.

    He's not top tier or nothing so he won't OCV no K-CBS teams or A-Are on his own, at best maybe you'll be able to take out one character and hurt another hopefully.
    "No one quits SRK. NO ONE" -wepeel
    P-Kyo(2), Guile, Cammy
    ST-Guile
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    So he has a whopping total of 1 anti air that is so so because it has almost no reach. Thats a lot. D.hp looks like bisons, comes out like bisons, but doesnt have the priority that bisons does. D.hp gets stuffed by shit that bisons beats clean (sagat j.rh comes to mind)
  • HellionHellion .5 Beat Combat Joined: Posts: 888
    D.hp gets stuffed by shit that bisons beats clean (sagat j.rh comes to mind)

    Sagat's j.hk,
    low jump groove or not?
    if low jump groove, is he low jumping?
    Is this his preferred way of jumping in?
    no, then he regular/superjumps instead?
    Is it P/K?
    No wait, it's a Non low jump groove, so he likes jumpin HK's 'cause they straight up beat d.HP?
    Does he mash HK before he reaches the apex of any of his jump ins?
    Does he mash HK just past that for the combo/guard crush pattern?
    Is this the only jumpin that this Sagat does?
    Does he jump in a lot?
    "No one quits SRK. NO ONE" -wepeel
    P-Kyo(2), Guile, Cammy
    ST-Guile
  • CMXCMX Hateful Henry Joined: Posts: 1,178
    Don't you think thats taking it out of porportion? gridman is stating how much Bison's c.fierce priority is over Terry's by using an example everyone has seen plenty of times in matches. I use c.rh for an AA with Terry >.> its funky but it works for me.

    As for this AA with Terry, it is kinda going no where. since we all aren't on the same page as others. we are thinking differently then the other.
    Making Designer Combos
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    Sagat's j.hk,
    low jump groove or not?
    if low jump groove, is he low jumping?
    Is this his preferred way of jumping in?
    no, then he regular/superjumps instead?
    Is it P/K?
    No wait, it's a Non low jump groove, so he likes jumpin HK's 'cause they straight up beat d.HP?
    Does he mash HK before he reaches the apex of any of his jump ins?
    Does he mash HK just past that for the combo/guard crush pattern?
    Is this the only jumpin that this Sagat does?
    Does he jump in a lot?

    Holy shit do you want to know what exact angle he is jumping at too? :rolleyes:
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    terry has problems, but anti airs arent one of them. his aa game is solid

    here's my shot at ngroove tiers, based on chars that gain the most from ngroove, NOT based on who the best characters are:

    top:
    sagat
    chun
    iori
    blanka
    vice

    high mid:
    ken
    mai
    hibiki
    geese

    honorable mentions?:
    akuma
    yama
    honda
    rolento
    kyo
    rugal
    king
    morrigan
    ryu

    mid:
    hella fools

    low:
    balrog
    kyosuke

    outside of balrog and kyosuke, every character has something pretty substantial to gain from ngroove (even cammy, who at least gets run, low jump and meter control, all of which are vital to her)
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
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