The Ongoing Tier Thread

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  • HAVHAV iori respawn Joined: Posts: 9,503
    Forum beef never dies
  • xX_Deus_XxxX_Deus_Xx ItsCool2BeDismissive Joined: Posts: 2,579
    Forum beef never dies

    were you here for his shit? it was epically scrubby. they were gonna fly gunter out to portugal to money match the guy and he backed down. he was sooooo scrubby. dozens of people were literally telling him how dumb he was for YEARS and he just kept going. the guy released "combovids" that used gameshark to make the combos go. it was ridiculous. he ran a cvs2 tourney and made a highlight reel that was all wakeup super, like it was exciting or something.

    AND NOW he wants to come into cvs2 forum and put in input? STFU GTFOH.
    Have fun, and be safe with it.

    Just kidding. Fuck shit up.
  • master akumamaster akuma akumacombos.com Joined: Posts: 447
    I forgot to mention something: many people see the best groove for Cammy as P-groove but I think should be K-groove.
    ^^^^YOU ARE A SCRUB.
    YOU SIR, ARE THE MOST SCUBBIEST PERSON THAT HAS EVER BEEN TO SRK. THERE IS NO ONE AS SCRUBBY AS YOU.

    So bad to me, almost hurts my feelings :yawn: (almost) hehe, btw: I like "scubbiest"
    CvS2 - C Vega,Hibiki,Morrigan,Cammy,Sakura,Blanka,Sagat
    SSF2T - Vega,Honda,Dhalsim,Chun
    A2 - Chun,Ryu
    Garou - Kain
  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,083
    bwahahaha, thats just plain hate, Deus. Yes, i remember his infamous "combovids", but give the guy a break, maybe he has gotten better?

    BTW, that list sucks.
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • xX_Deus_XxxX_Deus_Xx ItsCool2BeDismissive Joined: Posts: 2,579
    and now he takes pride in being the dumbest person in a forum of thousands.

    do the world a favor and dont have any children.
    Have fun, and be safe with it.

    Just kidding. Fuck shit up.
  • master akumamaster akuma akumacombos.com Joined: Posts: 447
    bwahahaha, thats just plain hate, Deus. Yes, i remember his infamous "combovids", but give the guy a break, maybe he has gotten better?

    BTW, that list sucks.

    My combosvids never got better; even after 10 years later I still go for the most basic/simple stuff (if 2 hit combo is enough to kill scrubs here in Portugal then there´s no need to perform 100 hit combo) :razzy:

    If you don´t mind could you give some of your inputs about at least the tiers characters?

    BTW: here is a combovid that I made about CvS2 almost 10 years ago

    I know, it´s just simple stuff.
    CvS2 - C Vega,Hibiki,Morrigan,Cammy,Sakura,Blanka,Sagat
    SSF2T - Vega,Honda,Dhalsim,Chun
    A2 - Chun,Ryu
    Garou - Kain
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    first and only warning deus. don't be a shithead

    as far as mid tier characters that may move up, assuming vice has already moved up, i'd say only maki and yun could possibly have what it takes. maybe kim? i don't think any of them are graduating any time soon though
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,083
    That video is atrocious, lol.

    Instead of posting your own tierlist, why dont you compare your thoughts with Buk list, and we can discuss why x character is in x position? For eg, P-Kyo:
    p-kyo (meterless like 4000 damage or something off of any close range parry, great oki)

    This is huge, a bnb that can be done of any close parry, does that much damage, opponent cant safe fall, carries to the corner, and better yet, gives chance to one of the best okizemes in the game.
    Kyo can semi option select cr.short/parry (giving him one of the best counterhit games), from that same oki, or kick throw (that cant be safe falled either, so the oki begins again), or give hell to big chars with lj.dn.Hp (cant be safe falled too!).
    All that is meterless. With meter, ever single parry, close and far, leads to super.. and if you are into the corner already, his big combo does a huge amount of damage.

    Yet you rate Kyo as high mid and not high / top tier. And there's a lot more going on for him (great normals, antiairs, supers, decent lj.game, decent crossup, etc)

    Also, the tier list uses the definite best version of each character, except when they are considered equal... yet you list two sagats, two cammys, two rolentos, etc

    And lastly, you list too much ranks between the tiers. High and high mid is the same category. Read the last page, we've been discusing a lot of your characters choices or positions.


    Buk: Still waiting for your answer, thanks.
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,083
    first and only warning deus. don't be a shithead

    as far as mid tier characters that may move up, assuming vice has already moved up, i'd say only maki and yun could possibly have what it takes. maybe kim? i don't think any of them are graduating any time soon though

    What?! Maki?
    lol
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • Mr. WarzardMr. Warzard CvS2 Commissioner Gordon Joined: Posts: 779
    I'm kind of amused that, even in 2012, a CvS2 thread can be randomly derailed for no reason.
    first and only warning deus. don't be a shithead

    as far as mid tier characters that may move up, assuming vice has already moved up, i'd say only maki and yun could possibly have what it takes. maybe kim? i don't think any of them are graduating any time soon though

    Sad, but true. We just don't have enough players right now to figure things out. There is a japanese C-Kim player who's been making noise (I always get the Japanese C-groove players confused these days - there are a lot now), so if he starts winning a lot maybe we can reassess things.

    (No disrespect at all to Leezy - we just don't have enough competition in NorCal for him to say he moves the character up himself!)

    Iyo's Maki was amazing, she has to be one of the least explored mid-tier characters. Her mobility makes her look like Rolento-lite at times.
    Holding a shovel over SF4's grave.
    CVS2: The Nine Ball of Fighting Games
    Apoc was right: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/556915/#Comment_556915
  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,179 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Master akuma has the least ridiculous tier list out of everyone posting over the last few months. There've been a lot of posts about random characters possibly being underrated/possibly higher in the tiers.....no. The game isn't even played to the point where it's fathomable for tiers to start shifting.
    Whiff your entire SOUL into c.MK in 3S.
    Footsies guide: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbpXplP_WFE
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    again, this game is way more explored than you think. the only videos people have seen out of japan came from a-cho, which is a single arcade that isn't even in tokyo. there have been lots of character specialists over the years, and out of the 48 or so characters in the game only like 8 never got high level representation
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • xX_Deus_XxxX_Deus_Xx ItsCool2BeDismissive Joined: Posts: 2,579
    again, this game is way more explored than you think. the only videos people have seen out of japan came from a-cho, which is a single arcade that isn't even in tokyo. there have been lots of character specialists over the years, and out of the 48 or so characters in the game only like 8 never got high level representation
    which 8 were those jw?
    Have fun, and be safe with it.

    Just kidding. Fuck shit up.
  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,179 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Yes we've all known about kyo, geese, yama etc. for a long time, but they will never be as good as the top characters, or even the high mid. That isn't to say that they aren't viable, it's just that people are throwing out random stuff and saying "yea, that makes them high mid" or "this moves them into top". I mean if people want to argue vice and yun being top or high mid because of character specialists, then i can make a really convincing argument for king moving up.
    Whiff your entire SOUL into c.MK in 3S.
    Footsies guide: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbpXplP_WFE
  • xX_Deus_XxxX_Deus_Xx ItsCool2BeDismissive Joined: Posts: 2,579
    actually there is an argument for king to move up.

    a-king might be better than n-king cuz she can actually use her meter. combine that with the most BULLSHIT roll in the game and you can get a few cheap roll throws in before a roll activate lol.

    and if we're talking vice and yun, can we might as well throw nako into the mix/ she has the same basic mixup heavy gameplay.

    i was saying before that maybe nako was underrated. i dont know if you guys are processing that differently and thinking that i was saying she should be bumped up, but if you were thinking that, thats not what im saying. im just saying shes underrated. as in more consideration and attention should be given to her abilities than is currently considered on this forum
    Have fun, and be safe with it.

    Just kidding. Fuck shit up.
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    n-vice is a very solid character. strong neutral game, great antiair, low jump game and total bullshit offense. matches up decently against common characters:
    - 4-6 vs sagat
    - 6-4 vs blanka
    - 6-4 vs bison
    - 3-7 vs cammy
    - 5-5 vs sakura
    - 6-4 vs vega
    - 5-5 vs guile
    - 3-7 vs chun

    high-mid is a pretty easy call here; people just needed to see it happen

    nobody's moved up c-yun, but his offense is totally bs as well. neutral game is a liability vs top chars, which is why he stays where he is. i'd still consider his neutral game to be better than average though

    nakoruru is good. pretty clearly best low jump game in cvs2 (not counting orochi iori), synergizes well with her great frame traps (scare them into blocking, low jump or df+fierce). this is mitigated by her subpar damage and weak neutral game. she's one of those characters where even when things are going well, you feel like you're doing awesome then she dies and you've only done like 60% damage to the opponent

    the tiers are based off of character capabilities and matchups, not so much off of results. ranking characters off of results is too sloppy because unequal player skill factors in too much (rufus winning everything despite not being top tier), or unfamiliarity with the character (morrigan and vega winning more than they should)

    there are a few king specialists. she sucks, but her low jump game combined with her roll is one of her few redeeming features. it's also how you land supers with her

    i've never seen a truly high level haoh (eddie lee and justin dont count because they never developed the character beyond day 2), kyosuke (iyos doesnt count), dan, ryo (some japanese guy mained him but he wasnt very good), balrog (cab doesnt count, neither did anybody in america), yuri (iyos doesnt count)

    ...i guess that's it? some characters were only lightly represented (i can only think of one good terry and benimaru player, and they're the same guy, ver dropped athena way long ago, etc.)
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • xX_Deus_XxxX_Deus_Xx ItsCool2BeDismissive Joined: Posts: 2,579
    land supers with n-king? im under the impression she has no safe way to do that...?
    Have fun, and be safe with it.

    Just kidding. Fuck shit up.
  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,179 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Deus you're right about nak, I think she's really good. Decent AAs, good battery/easy mode custom.

    I totally agree with everything you posted buk, and that's my point. I think a lot of the under used characters are good, just not as good as everyone else in the high mid tier, which is reserved for the really good chars. I think just throwing in characters nullifies the purpose of separating out the mid level characters. I like A/C-yun, he serves his purpose of building meter along with a solid mix up game, but i wouldn't put him on the same level as say C-guile who does far better against a lot of different characters.

    Guess i'll go back to lurking this part of the forum until we get some good news.
    Whiff your entire SOUL into c.MK in 3S.
    Footsies guide: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbpXplP_WFE
  • Mr. WarzardMr. Warzard CvS2 Commissioner Gordon Joined: Posts: 779
    Yes we've all known about kyo, geese, yama etc. for a long time, but they will never be as good as the top characters, or even the high mid. That isn't to say that they aren't viable, it's just that people are throwing out random stuff and saying "yea, that makes them high mid" or "this moves them into top". I mean if people want to argue vice and yun being top or high mid because of character specialists, then i can make a really convincing argument for king moving up.

    LOL wait, are you saying kyo and geese aren't high-mid? Yama's a bit more controversial, but kyo and geese are undeniably high-mid. K Geese is top IMO.

    If it looks like people are "throwing out random stuff," it's probably because nobody feels like providing a geometric proof here. If you disagree, it would help to give a few reasons why.
    Holding a shovel over SF4's grave.
    CVS2: The Nine Ball of Fighting Games
    Apoc was right: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/556915/#Comment_556915
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    im not sure what you're worrying about. none of these characters we're talking about are moving up. i was asked which characters are 'borderline', and i gave a few and supplied reasons. everybody's staying in midtier because that's what they're capable of

    i think i agreed to like 4 moves, but never changed the OP (hibiki to top, vega to top, honda down to high mid, vice to high mid)

    you're also not considering the right versions of these characters. nako is far better in k or ngroove instead of agroove, and yun is much better as a 'user' character; when he has access to level 2s he can kill a character incredibly fast

    king lands supers basically two ways: low jump rh hit confirm straight into qcb super, or two low shorts into qcb super. you can antiair with that super too, but its too inconsistent to get decent damage out of it
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,083

    ...i guess that's it? some characters were only lightly represented (i can only think of one good terry and benimaru player, and they're the same guy, ver dropped athena way long ago, etc.)

    Isnt Yane the best Terry player? And Izumi the best Benimaru?

    And what exactly are Maki strenghts for you to consider her as one of the best midtiers?
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • exdeathexdeath Joined: Posts: 6
    One question:
    This game has the ratio system where we can choose 1 or 2 or 3 chars (that I heard somewhere that its some useless/not balanced system and you must always get 3 chars).
    Anyway.
    Lets imagine we made some tier system based on the ratio one, were some chars would cost 1 slot, others would cost 2 slots and others 3 slots ( or just 1/2 chars or 2/3 chars if there arent enought variety between the chars), how this tier list system would be?
  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,083
    It would be like CvS1, where everyone picked four R1, two R1 and a R1 or 2 R2, leaving those with 3 or 4 points useless.
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • exdeathexdeath Joined: Posts: 6
    It would be like CvS1, where everyone picked four R1, two R1 and a R1 or 2 R2, leaving those with 3 or 4 points useless.
    The cvs1 ratio system is some ultra shitty system, most of the chars (if not all) aren't different enought to deserve different ratio cost.

    Here in my idea, the amount of slots each char cost (1, 2 or 3) would be created by the players (like the tier list we usually create by games) and would be able to upgraded/changed over time.
    If some character cost 3 ratio points, he WOULD be worth 3 characters of ratio 1.
    Here we already tested the game alot to be able to create a better ratio list.
  • RidianFableRidianFable Meh Joined: Posts: 2,628
    ratio 3 yamazaki got a lot of play.
    Hirayama. I'm a ronin.

    707-Mashf3st
    559-RidianFable
  • Great_Dark_HeroGreat_Dark_Hero Mai Darkness Joined: Posts: 2,735
    Hey guys. Are there any noteworthy N-Mai (well any groove really but N and K seem to make her the most viable) players I can analyze for their game play? For the past several days, I've been keeping track of Real Honest Sundays for keeping track of CVS2 game play and how the players implement the characters...
    Steam ID: http://steamcommunity.com/id/GDHTP | Twitch Channel: great_dark_hero
    PSN: Dark_Ice_Saiko
    KOFXIV: Shun / Mai / Beni [Luong, Geese, Sylvie, Kyo, King, Terry]
    DOA5LR: Mai[Nyotengu, Kasumi]
    Tekken 7: ???
    BBCF: Hakumen[Azaerl, Nine, Izayoi]
    SFV : ???
    Come to dreamcancel.com for KOFXIV FAQS, wiki-updates, and mini-guides!

  • Mr. WarzardMr. Warzard CvS2 Commissioner Gordon Joined: Posts: 779
    Rai is the godfather of Mai play (K-groove). You can study him for things like how to land super, and general gameplan as well.

    What you won't get by watching him is how to effectively use roll canceling (RCing). There are so few n-groove players on youtube that it may be tough to find vids of N-Mai players (someone else chime in if you know of any, none are coming to mind).

    Her main RC is going to be RC fan, which she'll use exactly like roll-groove Ryu does (a laggy, long-range, invincible poke). Check out GAO's C-Ryu for ideas on how to effectively use RCed projectiles.
    Holding a shovel over SF4's grave.
    CVS2: The Nine Ball of Fighting Games
    Apoc was right: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/556915/#Comment_556915
  • xX_Deus_XxxX_Deus_Xx ItsCool2BeDismissive Joined: Posts: 2,579
    Hey guys. Are there any noteworthy N-Mai (well any groove really but N and K seem to make her the most viable) players I can analyze for their game play? For the past several days, I've been keeping track of Real Honest Sundays for keeping track of CVS2 game play and how the players implement the characters...
    most real honest sunday players arent the highest calibur... leezy being the definite exception. and even then, youre not going to see leezy at 100%, because of the calibur of players he is playing against.

    the best play you can see today is in japanese videos, or you may have to dig for some really old stuff.
    Have fun, and be safe with it.

    Just kidding. Fuck shit up.
  • Great_Dark_HeroGreat_Dark_Hero Mai Darkness Joined: Posts: 2,735
    Ah okay! I do more resrarch on the Japanese videos for better game play management as well as Rai himself.
    I really should take a good look at GAO's C-Ryu input on RC projectiles!
    RC projectiles are a extremely good resource for poking and keeping things as safe as possible in order to
    ensure the win. Multiple play style adjustments and good reaction
    also helps. I find this game to be pretty well balanced... but, the player really
    needs to understand what they are doing (I think Dan and King are the only legitimately bad characters in
    a manner of speaking) Thankfully, RC rectifies a lot of the characters bad situations in many ways and ratio system
    here also gives the players something to think about.
    I really appreciate the help on Mai research guys! Thanks! I do believe that Mai is pretty viable in this game. I periodically resort to K groove depending on circumstances.
    Steam ID: http://steamcommunity.com/id/GDHTP | Twitch Channel: great_dark_hero
    PSN: Dark_Ice_Saiko
    KOFXIV: Shun / Mai / Beni [Luong, Geese, Sylvie, Kyo, King, Terry]
    DOA5LR: Mai[Nyotengu, Kasumi]
    Tekken 7: ???
    BBCF: Hakumen[Azaerl, Nine, Izayoi]
    SFV : ???
    Come to dreamcancel.com for KOFXIV FAQS, wiki-updates, and mini-guides!

  • xX_Deus_XxxX_Deus_Xx ItsCool2BeDismissive Joined: Posts: 2,579
    personally i think dan's c-ryu is more impressive. you'll have to find old vids of him playing..

    also... you might not feel this game is that balanced once you go against a clean and competent a-groove player. just imo.
    Have fun, and be safe with it.

    Just kidding. Fuck shit up.
  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,083
    Hey guys. Are there any noteworthy N-Mai (well any groove really but N and K seem to make her the most viable) players I can analyze for their game play? For the past several days, I've been keeping track of Real Honest Sundays for keeping track of CVS2 game play and how the players implement the characters...


    Suscribe to LionX on Youtube, he uploads frequently japanese CvS2 videos:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/Lionx
    Isnt Yane the best Terry player? And Izumi the best Benimaru?

    And what exactly are Maki strenghts for you to consider her as one of the best midtiers?

    I know this game is dead, but could you please answer this, @Buktooth ?
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    you have to remember, pretty much all cvs2 vids come out of the Osaka/Kyoto region. At least back when cvs2 was relatively healthy, those players were weaker than Nagoya players, which were much weaker than Tokyo players. You can't really tell who is the best player of any character by watching videos; your sample size is too small

    these days? I have no idea what the state of the game is. maybe these yane and izumi guys are the current best representatives of their characters

    maki has a really strong neutral game, which is about 75% of what you need to be successful in cvs2. her level 3 does crazy damage, and can be combed from any s.mk, s.hp, or bushin chain to whiff grab, link fierce. she has grab supers that force the opponent to move (at level 2 or higher). she has great corner setups and post-throw setups. she can build meter crazy fast with back run -> forward run -> back run spam. rc punch is useful. rc back run -> jump is useful defensively. in agroove she has a great antiair cc, anti projectile cc, and can juggle a cc off of a corner punch throw (in or out of cc)

    she's weak against ranged low jumps, and her non-super damage output is bad; awful outside of point blank range
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • YariX0083YariX0083 @RaasuX Joined: Posts: 139
    Why wasn't there more content out of Tokyo and Nagoya? Did they just not record anything?
  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,083
    This is the tier discussion thread, we have a thread for team / character suggestion:

    http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/team-formation-discussion-suggestions-etc.14631/

    But since this forum is dead, N-Ryu, Ken are the best. They can play first and second spot. N-Sak is algo REALLY good, underrated character. N-Claw is also good, but mainly as a battery only character, and N-Dic is meh, but can play the user spot pretty decently.
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • popoblopopoblo Joined: Posts: 2,147
    Buktooth wrote: »
    n-vice is a very solid character. strong neutral game, great antiair, low jump game and total bullshit offense. matches up decently against common characters:
    - 4-6 vs sagat
    - 6-4 vs blanka
    - 6-4 vs bison
    - 3-7 vs cammy
    - 5-5 vs sakura
    - 6-4 vs vega
    - 5-5 vs guile
    - 3-7 vs chun

    high-mid is a pretty easy call here; people just needed to see it happen

    randomly played cvs2 at an arcade in cincinnati and got me interested again. curious on your thoughts on the blanka and bison matchups to both be in vice’s favor at 6-4? I would initially think that n-vice has a stronger matchup against bison minus the CC, but her aggressive nature makes 1 mistake against a full-metered bison = 75-80% life. here’s what i’m thinking...

    for vice vs blanka

    -RC grab his meaty wake-up electricity (which really takes away easy-mode blanka for lots of players)
    -shoulder blocked blanka balls, RC shoulder jumps ins (or just use low fierce or standing RH depending on range)
    -low jump fierce when in range
    -lots of standing strongs? i think the ground game would be tough, but the range where blanka would low RH sweep would be her low jump fierce range.

    for vice vs bison

    -lots of standing strongs
    -punish a blocked PC hard with shoulder to whip to mixup oki
    -punish the devil's reverse with RC shoulder (and headstomp after you block the initial hit IF they don't fly away with the glitch)
    -low fierce/standing RH/RC shoulder his jump-ins

    i miss cvs2, online play would be amazing!

  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,083
    @popoblo you have to tag people now so when they log in they`ll see they are mentioned in a thread. so @Buktooth could you please enlighten us?
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,185 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    popoblo wrote: »
    Buktooth wrote: »
    n-vice is a very solid character. strong neutral game, great antiair, low jump game and total bullshit offense. matches up decently against common characters:
    - 4-6 vs sagat
    - 6-4 vs blanka
    - 6-4 vs bison
    - 3-7 vs cammy
    - 5-5 vs sakura
    - 6-4 vs vega
    - 5-5 vs guile
    - 3-7 vs chun

    high-mid is a pretty easy call here; people just needed to see it happen

    randomly played cvs2 at an arcade in cincinnati and got me interested again. curious on your thoughts on the blanka and bison matchups to both be in vice’s favor at 6-4? I would initially think that n-vice has a stronger matchup against bison minus the CC, but her aggressive nature makes 1 mistake against a full-metered bison = 75-80% life. here’s what i’m thinking...

    for vice vs blanka

    -RC grab his meaty wake-up electricity (which really takes away easy-mode blanka for lots of players)
    -shoulder blocked blanka balls, RC shoulder jumps ins (or just use low fierce or standing RH depending on range)
    -low jump fierce when in range
    -lots of standing strongs? i think the ground game would be tough, but the range where blanka would low RH sweep would be her low jump fierce range.

    for vice vs bison

    -lots of standing strongs
    -punish a blocked PC hard with shoulder to whip to mixup oki
    -punish the devil's reverse with RC shoulder (and headstomp after you block the initial hit IF they don't fly away with the glitch)
    -low fierce/standing RH/RC shoulder his jump-ins

    i miss cvs2, online play would be amazing!

    @popoblo I played a lot of C-Vice she does decent but vs hardcore RC turtles you gonna have a rough time. Once close she does well due to her grab/low shorts mix ups. God I miss this game. You can play online with Demul but its laggy if they arent near your area.
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,236
    Guys, I'm curious about Honda - what does make him top tier in this game ? I recently tried Cvs2, and checked the tier list, and I was surprised seeing Honda so high on the tier list. I usually play him in Sf4 and Sf2, and usually he is mid tier at best. So what makes him so good in this game ?


  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,164 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Emanuelb wrote: »
    Guys, I'm curious about Honda - what does make him top tier in this game ? I recently tried Cvs2, and checked the tier list, and I was surprised seeing Honda so high on the tier list. I usually play him in Sf4 and Sf2, and usually he is mid tier at best. So what makes him so good in this game ?

    RC everything
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • Mr. WarzardMr. Warzard CvS2 Commissioner Gordon Joined: Posts: 779
    Ouroborus wrote: »
    Emanuelb wrote: »
    Guys, I'm curious about Honda - what does make him top tier in this game ? I recently tried Cvs2, and checked the tier list, and I was surprised seeing Honda so high on the tier list. I usually play him in Sf4 and Sf2, and usually he is mid tier at best. So what makes him so good in this game ?

    RC everything

    Pretty much this. Specifically, RC hands is a major problem for a lot of characters to deal with, and RC command grab makes Honda super-scary up close. Honda has to whittle characters down because it's harder for him to inflict big damage, but he has the tools to do so.
    Holding a shovel over SF4's grave.
    CVS2: The Nine Ball of Fighting Games
    Apoc was right: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/556915/#Comment_556915
  • Trouble BrewingTrouble Brewing Super Coffee Fighter V Joined: Posts: 5,174 mod
    Emanuelb wrote: »
    Guys, I'm curious about Honda - what does make him top tier in this game ? I recently tried Cvs2, and checked the tier list, and I was surprised seeing Honda so high on the tier list. I usually play him in Sf4 and Sf2, and usually he is mid tier at best. So what makes him so good in this game ?
    1) He's probably only high-mid these days.

    2) Like they said, RC everything.

    3) I would also argue that CvS2 rewards fundamentals better than AE.
    The artist formerly known as Starcade RIP
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,236
    edited July 2013
    I'm a complete noob at this game, so what is RC ? I've heard about it a lot, but I just couldn't figure out what it is. Honda has the same moves as always - headbutt/splash/hands/oicho ans Super, so what is this RC ?

    Also, I heard that another reason wy Honda does really well in this game is because his traditional weakness - fireball characters - is not a big issue in this game (also I'm not too sure why - because of rolling ? )

    EDIT: oh, I just read Buktooth faq - RC meaning roll cancel, sorry for the stupid question.

    So how does Honda plays in this game, compared to other iterations ? (SF2, Alpha 3, Sf4). I'm asking here, since Honda subforum seems kinda dead.


  • Trouble BrewingTrouble Brewing Super Coffee Fighter V Joined: Posts: 5,174 mod
    Try checking youtube for CvS2 tournament footage to get an idea.
    The artist formerly known as Starcade RIP
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,164 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Emanuelb wrote: »
    I'm a complete noob at this game, so what is RC ? I've heard about it a lot, but I just couldn't figure out what it is. Honda has the same moves as always - headbutt/splash/hands/oicho ans Super, so what is this RC ?

    Also, I heard that another reason wy Honda does really well in this game is because his traditional weakness - fireball characters - is not a big issue in this game (also I'm not too sure why - because of rolling ? )

    EDIT: oh, I just read Buktooth faq - RC meaning roll cancel, sorry for the stupid question.

    So how does Honda plays in this game, compared to other iterations ? (SF2, Alpha 3, Sf4). I'm asking here, since Honda subforum seems kinda dead.

    roll cancelling makes special moves invincible to everything except throws. so imagine his headbutt, hands and ochio going thru everything. thats cvs2 honda in a nutshell.

    also, his headbutts are much safer on block in cvs2. only a few specials can punish it on block. compound that will roll cancelling, it makes a good poke. imagine honda's ex headbutt with much more invincibility and going thru projectiles but losing to throws. thats why roll cancelled headbutt is so good. non roll cancelled headbutt still has invincibility and are even invincible to throws.

    the majority fireballs sucks in cvs2 with the exception of guile. most of the fireballs in the game are over -10 on block or hit. it can also be easily avoided by rolling, just defends and parries. roll cancel headbutt and roll cancel hands goes thru fireballs.

    compared to sf4 honda, cvs2 honda is just much stronger due to his roll cancels. sf4 honda has better normals and safer sumo splashes.

    alpha 3 honda is not worth mentioning and easily one of the worst characters in the game. headbutt has no priority and all of his normals sucks.

    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • YariX0083YariX0083 @RaasuX Joined: Posts: 139
    I've never tried RCing 360 motions w/ Honda or Rock (K-Groove user). When do you input roll? At the input right before you complete the 360?
  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,179 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    YariX0083 wrote: »
    I've never tried RCing 360 motions w/ Honda or Rock (K-Groove user). When do you input roll? At the input right before you complete the 360?
    What makes honda's RC grab so good is how fast it is. Throw it out there and if they avoid it by jumping you can potentially punish because of the near instant recovery.
    Whiff your entire SOUL into c.MK in 3S.
    Footsies guide: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbpXplP_WFE
  • Mr. WarzardMr. Warzard CvS2 Commissioner Gordon Joined: Posts: 779
    YariX0083 wrote: »
    I've never tried RCing 360 motions w/ Honda or Rock (K-Groove user). When do you input roll? At the input right before you complete the 360?

    Yes, same concept as RCing any other move. Bear in mind that it's really hard with Rock because of all the overlapping qcf/qcb moves he has. It's easier with Honda not to get some other move to come out, which is why it's more practical to learn to do and use it with Honda.

    Holding a shovel over SF4's grave.
    CVS2: The Nine Ball of Fighting Games
    Apoc was right: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/556915/#Comment_556915
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,164 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    YariX0083 wrote: »
    I've never tried RCing 360 motions w/ Honda or Rock (K-Groove user). When do you input roll? At the input right before you complete the 360?

    270+P.

    start with forward and roll it all the way to upback, then hit roll and as soon as you release roll, immediately hit another punch while finishing the joystick motion to up. if you want to roll cancel with the lp version, hit lk when you reach to the upback part with the joystick and roll your finger from lk to lp while finishing upback to up.

    rock's command grab (roll cancelled or not) is much harder to do in any non low jump groove. the reason being that all of the characters with the 360 motion (zangief, honda, raiden) characters doesn't leave the ground until frame 5 while all other characters leave the ground on frame 2. capcom did that so it would be easier to do 360 moves without jumping. however, they forgot about rock, so he he has a 2 frame window to go from back to up without jumping. good luck with that.

    low jump grooves has 6 frames of startup for jumping (both regular and low jump). this is why is much easier to do rock's command grab in a low jump groove.
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • YariX0083YariX0083 @RaasuX Joined: Posts: 139
    I see. I only use K Rock. I can usually walk forward and get the command grab w/o jumping. Now I know why.
  • popoblopopoblo Joined: Posts: 2,147
    [/quote]

    @popoblo I played a lot of C-Vice she does decent but vs hardcore RC turtles you gonna have a rough time. Once close she does well due to her grab/low shorts mix ups. God I miss this game. You can play online with Demul but its laggy if they arent near your area.[/quote]

    Solid, C-vice is vintage, reminds of me Chari doing work back in the day. I tried to learn A-vice and she has a lot of good CC options in theory, just the lack of a solid ground game outside of run and low jump really hurts her.

    And I could never find anyone to play cvs2 near me in its prime, so online would likely be VERY laggy based on what you're saying.

    peace

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