The Ongoing Tier Thread

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  • PieguyPieguy 3.1415926535897932 Joined: Posts: 1,650
    terry has problems, but anti airs arent one of them. his aa game is solid

    here's my shot at ngroove tiers, based on chars that gain the most from ngroove, NOT based on who the best characters are:

    top:
    sagat
    chun
    iori
    blanka
    vice

    high mid:
    ken
    mai
    hibiki
    geese

    honorable mentions?:
    akuma
    yama
    honda
    rolento
    kyo
    rugal
    king
    morrigan
    ryu

    mid:
    hella fools

    low:
    balrog
    kyosuke

    outside of balrog and kyosuke, every character has something pretty substantial to gain from ngroove (even cammy, who at least gets run, low jump and meter control, all of which are vital to her)

    How is balrog low-tier in N? He uses meter fairly well and low jump fierce is pretty good no? His roll cancels are also decent.

    I'd imagine somebody like CAB doin pretty well with N-rog. That might be a player talent thing tho and not so much character strength.
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  • casey_MDKcasey_MDK Original DOA scrub Joined: Posts: 302
    terry has problems, but anti airs arent one of them. his aa game is solid

    here's my shot at ngroove tiers, based on chars that gain the most from ngroove, NOT based on who the best characters are:

    top:
    sagat
    chun
    iori
    blanka
    vice

    high mid:
    ken
    mai
    hibiki
    geese

    honorable mentions?:
    akuma
    yama
    honda
    rolento
    kyo
    rugal
    king
    morrigan
    ryu

    mid:
    hella fools

    low:
    balrog
    kyosuke

    outside of balrog and kyosuke, every character has something pretty substantial to gain from ngroove (even cammy, who at least gets run, low jump and meter control, all of which are vital to her)

    Interesting concept. Should we do all the groove tiering like this?

    I'd move even Kyosuke up to mid. I don't know a damn thing about Rog to be honest, but Kyosuke with N-groove gives him another pretty good AA option (rc flash), low jumps are helpful, and run works well with him IMO. Don't know much about his counter attack, and I can't remember his roll data...I think it's bad though. Merits a mid, IMO. Of course, I don't know much about Suk-zor either.
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  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    terry has problems, but anti airs arent one of them. his aa game is solid

    You're giving df.fierce way too much credit.:rolleyes:
  • LeezyLeezy In gaming, I age in dog years... Joined: Posts: 1,397
    I remember using Terry a long time ago...

    Iirc, early Crackshot/RC Crackshot was good and safe...DF Fierce is pretty useful, since his game spaces him well to always have an opportunity to use it (or at least that's how I was able to play him), Rising Tackle was pretty good ass AA too. I can't remember which normals I found to work well for him, but they're kinda like Guile's in the sense that you have to know which normal to use in every situation (different angles, attacks you're facing, etc.)...but they are effective. His ground game is ridiculous...I've seen scrubs spam on normals and shut fools out, let alone anyone good at this game that could figure out how to use them properly.

    He's got mixup potential on dash-in (low shorts into super, ghetto priority standing close 2-hit fierce...which hit confirms into a bunch of shit, throw)...low jump moves are pretty good...He's definitely playable in a bunch of grooves.

    But alas, in the end, you must be Mexican to play Terry...so I gave him up.
    Same old dog, same old tricks...
  • CMXCMX Hateful Henry Joined: Posts: 1,178
    What about Poongko that beastly A-Terry from Korea? He's not Mexican is he? >.>
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  • HellionHellion .5 Beat Combat Joined: Posts: 888
    Holy shit do you want to know what exact angle he is jumping at too? :rolleyes:

    I'm just saying that it's just one move man.
    He's one of those characters with multiple answers that apply in different situations, he doesn't have a final solution like Rock's s.HK.
    Leezy wrote:
    But alas, in the end, you must be Mexican to play Terry...so I gave him up.
    CMX wrote:
    What about Poongko that beastly A-Terry from Korea? He's not Mexican is he? >.>

    Must've been, in a previous life.
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    ST-Guile
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    I'm just saying that it's just one move man.
    He's one of those characters with multiple answers that apply in different situations, he doesn't have a final solution like Rock's s.HK.

    If you really want, I'll go find the moves that bisons can beat but terrys cant. I listed that because it was the first thing that shot into my mind.
    Tell me terry's multiple answers. You've got me puzzled because besides a mediocre df.fierce and a bellow average d.fierce, hes got nothing (rt is okay but it requires a charge that you wont always have)
  • GREEKGREEK Ryu's been smoking that shit Joined: Posts: 563
    is the tier list on the first page of this thread, or the one on the srk wiki the right one?
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  • HellionHellion .5 Beat Combat Joined: Posts: 888
    If you really want, I'll go find the moves that bisons can beat but terrys cant.
    Don't bother.
    Tell me terry's multiple answers.

    That's a real broad demand, it really depends on the positional situation, character matchup and differences in things like jumping speeds, ranges of normals, type of groove, so on.
    I mean if he were top tier/upper mid and had an easy one button anti-air for everything it'd be a brain dead issue case closed I guess.
    Some will work, some will not, the issue being the knowledge level required, but since I don't have that kind of time I have to stick to my guns with reflexes and my comfort level with the ranges of my moves.
    If he's In Close and you're fighting someone who has an itchy short jump hk trigger finger mashing s.MP works (depending on range/character/player/ arc of jump), an early RC LK crackshot works, mashing on early far s.HP works depending on range / character / player tendancies/jump arc, at this range df+HP works too as it does hit forward of him as well as covering the area above his head, and it's quick at 3 frames. You have d+HP also but 'tis risque like you said.
    At Mid Range if they're regular/super jumping you could just run in and/or roll it to get by their hitbox and df+HP /d+HP/d+HK if their jump in would beat yours (or they're in C-Groove or A with meter, or if they're looking to parry/jd that shit to mess with them in which case you could further screw with them by canceling the df+HPinto something), RC LK Crackshot the second they take off the ground or MK version if they're doing some laggy special/super, or just df+HP, d+HP, d+HK (the usage depends on arc of jump/who you're fighting, etc. a back dash may be required, whatever)
    He has his lvl 1 Geysers which take up meter but he builds it pretty quick, only one hit though so watch those jd's/parries at this range too.
    At both of those ranges if you've been hitting their guard with low shorts to something else you have your charge so there's your Rising Tackle, preferably RC'd, and since you're at down you have your "pre-emptive" and/or early psychic anti-air RC LK Crackshot ready to go at a twitch. Just don't get baited.
    Max Range run up df+HP / d+HP / d+HK / RC Crackshot / RC Rising Tackle
    Lots of parry/jd bait situations if they regular/superjump on side of P/K groove if no charge.
    Had to gun deck this last one but pretty much it I gotta go
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  • CMXCMX Hateful Henry Joined: Posts: 1,178
    Must've been, in a previous life.

    http://youtube.com/profile?user=laugh25acw <--plenty of A-Terry footage at the beginning thanks to laugh.
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  • UtsusemiUtsusemi S.O.N.S Joined: Posts: 200
    Yay for N-Vice, one of the funnest characters in the game to play.
  • PieguyPieguy 3.1415926535897932 Joined: Posts: 1,650
    http://youtube.com/profile?user=laugh25acw <--plenty of A-Terry footage at the beginning thanks to laugh.

    I'm definitely no pro but the level at which those players are playing at isn't really that great. Like there's a lot of blatant mistakes that you just don't see happening at high levels of play. Tons of missed cancels and just sloppy play all together. A few missed CC's here and there too.

    If you're going to play Terry, you should play him in C imo cuz that's where he's most lethal. His dash is good and his super cancels are what make C shine for him.

    I've watched hundreds of videos on youtube from tons and tons of competitions and I have seen every single character except Terry, Benimaru, Ryo and Yuri completely beasting at high levels of play. If anybody can post videos of the characters I've listed doing well at tournament level, that'd be great.

    I went back and watched some videos from poongko and he's pretty good. I can't really say he'd win a tournament with his Terry but it's definitely above average. I saw some pretty dumb things that usually don't happen too often in some of the vids like a ton of rolling RT's. That shit gets you killed :\.

    I was mainly watching laugh vs poongko and while laugh is definitely skilled, he's no where near as nasty with vega as jwong, ricky or any of the japanese players that abuse the shit out of vega's priority, activation and rc ball. Still a decent watch that I might go back to later.
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  • HellionHellion .5 Beat Combat Joined: Posts: 888
    If you're going to play Terry, you should play him in C imo cuz that's where he's most lethal. His dash is good and his super cancels are what make C shine for him.

    If anything else I'd play him in P.
    Prefer N.
    I like low jump too damn much to give it away for super cancels, and while his dash is good I prefer run, N still gives him AC's and he can deal a good deal of damage once he gets in or pop lvl 3 helps his Buster Wolf a good bit.
    I don't like air block unless I have air throw and Terry lacks that.
    He still has his RC's.
    A-Groove is still probably his best groove though, but I like having the ability to cancel d.lk's into something, and lvl 1 buster wolf to whatever followup or corner mixup isn't too shabby. If anything activation gives him ways to land and deal his damage that make up for his non-top-tierness.
    Like N but there are a lot of holes in his offense though.

    --
    Buk took out Ricky's Sak with RC slaps from Yuri before
    Tourney? Probably not, but it was still a match.
    --
    "No one quits SRK. NO ONE" -wepeel
    P-Kyo(2), Guile, Cammy
    ST-Guile
  • CMXCMX Hateful Henry Joined: Posts: 1,178
    I'm definitely no pro but the level at which those players are playing at isn't really that great. Like there's a lot of blatant mistakes that you just don't see happening at high levels of play. Tons of missed cancels and just sloppy play all together. A few missed CC's here and there too.

    If you're going to play Terry, you should play him in C imo cuz that's where he's most lethal. His dash is good and his super cancels are what make C shine for him.

    I've watched hundreds of videos on youtube from tons and tons of competitions and I have seen every single character except Terry, Benimaru, Ryo and Yuri completely beasting at high levels of play. If anybody can post videos of the characters I've listed doing well at tournament level, that'd be great.

    I went back and watched some videos from poongko and he's pretty good. I can't really say he'd win a tournament with his Terry but it's definitely above average. I saw some pretty dumb things that usually don't happen too often in some of the vids like a ton of rolling RT's. That shit gets you killed :\.

    I was mainly watching laugh vs poongko and while laugh is definitely skilled, he's no where near as nasty with vega as jwong, ricky or any of the japanese players that abuse the shit out of vega's priority, activation and rc ball. Still a decent watch that I might go back to later.

    I noticed you didn't type in Kyosuke, King, and Dan. so I assume they beasted at some scrub tourney?

    not everyone is at the same level as jwong, ricky or any jap players. comparing players who have been dominating tourneys for quite some time is pretty far fetched.
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  • PieguyPieguy 3.1415926535897932 Joined: Posts: 1,650
    I noticed you didn't type in Kyosuke, King, and Dan. so I assume they beasted at some scrub tourney?

    not everyone is at the same level as jwong, ricky or any jap players. comparing players who have been dominating tourneys for quite some time is pretty far fetched.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=055m9RL6gJU
    King in A pretty nasty.

    I've seen somebody beasting with kyosuke before. he was a pretty famous japanese player who specialized in low tier but I can't find the video right now. I think it was chikyuu.

    Dan is kind of self explanatory :wink:
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  • ramzaramza hmmm Joined: Posts: 2,481
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=055m9RL6gJU
    King in A pretty nasty.

    I've seen somebody beasting with kyosuke before. he was a pretty famous japanese player who specialized in low tier but I can't find the video right now. I think it was chikyuu.

    Dan is kind of self explanatory :wink:

    that video sucked
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  • CMXCMX Hateful Henry Joined: Posts: 1,178
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=055m9RL6gJU
    King in A pretty nasty.

    I've seen somebody beasting with kyosuke before. he was a pretty famous japanese player who specialized in low tier but I can't find the video right now. I think it was chikyuu.

    Dan is kind of self explanatory :wink:

    there are gaps in them poke strings and he got tick'd like crazy, roll activate twice and he got caught both times...

    I have to agree with ramza, it sucked. I check for other vids of him too, only other vid of him using A-King she got RAPED. i'm sorry but IMO King, Kyosuke, Dan don't survive long in a person's team in high level play for very long, so much work for so little dmg or getting raped cause people just ain't scared of them.
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  • PieguyPieguy 3.1415926535897932 Joined: Posts: 1,650
    there are gaps in them poke strings and he got tick'd like crazy, roll activate twice and he got caught both times...

    I have to agree with ramza, it sucked. I check for other vids of him too, only other vid of him using A-King she got RAPED. i'm sorry but IMO King, Kyosuke, Dan don't survive long in a person's team in high level play for very long, so much work for so little dmg or getting raped cause people just ain't scared of them.

    Is it really limited to King, Kyosuke and Dan though? Benimaru, Yuri, Haohmaru and Yun are all so weak that you just aren't afraid of them.

    But man, this discussion has gone way off course from what it started at. Is terry worth playing at a competitive level? It seems like the only reason you'd play him is if you just liked the character in general. He's mid tier at best and most seem to agree from what's been said so far.
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  • HellionHellion .5 Beat Combat Joined: Posts: 888
    If u see A groove geif or c dhalsim ala gunter/iyo then there is little problem playing what u like here n there so long as you at least learn the matchups n not jump around or throw fireballs like an idiot
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    P-Kyo(2), Guile, Cammy
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  • AznmnkyAznmnky Mr. Robot Joined: Posts: 395
    But alas, in the end, you must be Mexican to play Terry...so I gave him up.

    :clap::clap::clap::clap:

    It's funny cuz it's true.

    K groove taught me how to tech throws better.

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  • bodlerbodler The Unmixupable Joined: Posts: 1,074
    Is it really limited to King, Kyosuke and Dan though? Benimaru, Yuri, Haohmaru and Yun are all so weak that you just aren't afraid of them.

    .


    my ranking among those sucky characters.

    1: yun
    2: kyosuke
    3:king
    4:hao
    5:yuri
    6:dan
    7:benimaru


    i think beni is the worst char in the game, he has 0 range, the only reliable thing he has is his drill kick.

    yun is my first choice for 1 spot c groove, but i always play him with super high tiers to back his low health.
  • boxbox Joined: Posts: 1,611

    i think beni is the worst char in the game, he has 0 range, the only reliable thing he has is his drill kick.


    Drill kick is horrible IMO. Beni's range is decent. Crouching short, crouching forward, standing forward, towards+forward, standing RH, towards + roundhouse, crouching roundhouse are all good ranged normals.

    He's got a couple good anti-airs. jumping fierce. RC DP+kick. Air-throw.

    He's also got an easy BnB combo with crouching shorts into qcf+kick.

    In A-groove he's got easy ground CC, anti-air CC, and chip-damage CC. I think his downfall just comes in his damage-output to stamina ratio.
  • PieguyPieguy 3.1415926535897932 Joined: Posts: 1,650
    I think king takes the cake for games worst character. She has very average priority and it's extremely hard to hit with her supers. Her stamina is below average as is her stun, and her normals aren't very good either. Plus, every special she has leads to huge recovery and they're kind of difficult to use/hit with.
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  • MGSMGS RTJRecon Joined: Posts: 1,055
    Instead of ranking the characters in a general sense why not rank the games best pokers, best mix up game, block strings, and high damage categories just to name a few. for example

    best mix up(On wake up) characters imo.
    1. Rock
    2. Hibiki
    3. RC blanka
    4. Sakura
    5.Vice

    vice may be a stretch but on wake up she's extremely difficult to deal with because you don't know whats coming next.

    granted it'd probably be better if someone like buk made the tiering for this one because he has so much knowledge of most of the characters in the gamel
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  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    Uhh Blanka is much better on wake up than Rock. What does hibiki have on wakeup? Slow overhead or shorts? Vice is a beast as they're waking up. Meaty close strong or mk and either a. lvl 1 super throw, b. wait to see what they do. c. low shorts


    edit: yamazaki is really good on wake up too.
  • MGSMGS RTJRecon Joined: Posts: 1,055
    i should say i'm pretty biased..but i think rocks wake up game is better than blanka..

    Rock has 50/50 set ups for life and no one can always guess right. when you think he's gonna 360 you and you try to stop it with a jab or grab you get countered with a cr.lk,cr.hk then you're back on the ground back to the mind games this time he might 360 you or do the same thing again. but its up to the Rock player you are the one who has to do something about it..basically turning it into a huge guessing game. he could shiftxx360, he could counter he's got a lot more options than blanka imo

    blanka's is much safer but pretty much all you have to do is block down back on wake up vs blanka and there isn't much he can do except chip you with the cage or make an attempt to throw you which is pretty easy to stop. the thing about blanka as with most top tiers is they don't have to do much in the terms of aggressive fighting you're the one who has to be more aggressive to beat their ridiculously good normals. you already know whats coming against blanka the problem is doing something about it

    Hibiki's wake up game is cold ..you have the close rh. that hits low, QCB slash that passes through..you have to block it on the opposite direction, cr. shorts, close mpxxoverhead, naked overhead, cl mpxx counter, naked counter, empty small jump crouching shorts....or she could just grab you that is a ton of shit to account for while you are waking up facing a good hibiki player.

    I'm not the best qualified person to make a list like this was just putting it out there as an idea.

    Morrigan's wake up game is cold but not enough players play her but if more played her like buk does she'd definitely make this list
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  • CMXCMX Hateful Henry Joined: Posts: 1,178
    Uhh Blanka is much better on wake up than Rock. What does hibiki have on wakeup? Slow overhead or shorts? Vice is a beast as they're waking up. Meaty close strong or mk and either a. lvl 1 super throw, b. wait to see what they do. c. low shorts


    edit: yamazaki is really good on wake up too.

    Hibiki has a meaty cross up for a super hitconfirm with her qcb.fierce, the overhead, s.strong xx overhead, meaty s.forward into c.short, c.jab xx slash, or small jump for her ambiguos cross up, and if against the wall using her dodge xx run into the corner for a cross up but who falls for this anyway?

    EDIT: MGS beat me too it. although the empty jump into shorts is a given for any char that can start their combo off with a short, same goes for the grab. the counters are a bit iffy since their only good if you can read your opponents common wake up choices.
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  • HAVHAV iori respawn Joined: Posts: 9,503
    Hibiki's run into the corner trick works in A because it allows for the dodge-> jump RH for an instant overhead, so her high/low game is better than it would be otherwise.

    Only problem with Hibiki's oki game is that she rarely gets knock downs that she can follow up on.
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,248 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Instead of ranking the characters in a general sense why not rank the games best pokers, best mix up game, block strings, and high damage categories just to name a few. for example

    best mix up(On wake up) characters imo.
    1. Rock
    2. Hibiki
    3. RC blanka
    4. Sakura
    5.Vice

    vice may be a stretch but on wake up she's extremely difficult to deal with because you don't know whats coming next.

    granted it'd probably be better if someone like buk made the tiering for this one because he has so much knowledge of most of the characters in the gamel

    add kyo on the list too
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • CMXCMX Hateful Henry Joined: Posts: 1,178
    Hibiki's run into the corner trick works in A because it allows for the dodge-> jump RH for an instant overhead, so her high/low game is better than it would be otherwise.

    Only problem with Hibiki's oki game is that she rarely gets knock downs that she can follow up on.

    sadly theres almost no chance in setting that up since Hibiki (at least mines) almost never (maybe 1) land a kd or a throw close enough to the wall to work it. maybe yours does but I dont know haven't seen it since that 1 time OTK did it in a vid I saw.
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  • kid_krushkid_krush 黒人の名前はOMGsupafly!! Joined: Posts: 88
    Instead of ranking the characters in a general sense why not rank the games best pokers, best mix up game, block strings, and high damage categories just to name a few. for example

    best mix up(On wake up) characters imo.
    1. Rock
    2. Hibiki
    3. RC blanka
    4. Sakura
    5.Vice

    vice may be a stretch but on wake up she's extremely difficult to deal with because you don't know whats coming next.

    granted it'd probably be better if someone like buk made the tiering for this one because he has so much knowledge of most of the characters in the gamel
    add kyo on the list too


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  • HAVHAV iori respawn Joined: Posts: 9,503
    sadly theres almost no chance in setting that up since Hibiki (at least mines) almost never (maybe 1) land a kd or a throw close enough to the wall to work it. maybe yours does but I dont know haven't seen it since that 1 time OTK did it in a vid I saw.

    Well, there are certain matches where I work my opponent into the corner, but more often, since I'm in A, after a landed custom, the fight is in the corner anyway. My back's to the corner, but there are options that I can take on my opponent's wake-up that will put them into the corner, and leave them open for that cute little trick. Example, I can go for cross-up (or non-cross-up, for those that know my steez) run slash xx low slash, then run back into the corner, for another high/low/throw/left/right mix-up.
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,248 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    everyone forgot to put honda on the list of the top oki characters. dude is a beast after a knockdown.

    i would say hes the 2nd most scariest character after a knockdown. maybe not 2nd, but close.
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • MizukiMizuki ayy lmao Joined: Posts: 3,200
    Yeah, where the fuck is Honda?
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  • PieguyPieguy 3.1415926535897932 Joined: Posts: 1,650
    RC throw, RC hands, s.fierce. Honda that cheap sob -_-.
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  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,248 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    dont forget to sumo splash and (rc) headbutt too
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • skisonicskisonic Joined: Posts: 1,131 mod
    sadly theres almost no chance in setting that up since Hibiki (at least mines) almost never (maybe 1) land a kd or a throw close enough to the wall to work it. maybe yours does but I dont know haven't seen it since that 1 time OTK did it in a vid I saw.


    I really think instant overhead is a misnomer, especially for a situation like this, being as how you have to actually have to hop back into the air, and at that point anything is overhead. Most players arent gonna block the RH the first couple times but players with above average reaction get used to it. Which brings me here.


    2:44

    sometimes i forego rh and just go for a shallow short, especially if i think my opponent is going to see it coming. The short gives you more time in the air, just to make the setup up look different and bait something out, (short comes out in 4 frames, RH in 9)
    Basically the RH you have to hit it with pretty strict timing, and I know an experienced Hibiki player is gonna feel it. So the short will give me that time to make him think "the RH isnt coming", so I'll go for it (which often nets a counter hit), and mixup a throw or go for c.short, which again is often c.hit because the frame advantage is deceptive as well.
    Bonus: since you get a nice throw setup, here you can kick throw into corner! Now you get get run into the corner !! (last time I tried this I got so excited I did it all kinda late though and ate a DP or something :sad:)

    just some other stuff to consider.
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  • CMXCMX Hateful Henry Joined: Posts: 1,178
    sometimes i forego rh and just go for a shallow short, especially if i think my opponent is going to see it coming. The short gives you more time in the air, just to make the setup up look different and bait something out, (short comes out in 4 frames, RH in 9)
    Basically the RH you have to hit it with pretty strict timing, and I know an experienced Hibiki player is gonna feel it. So the short will give me that time to make him think "the RH isnt coming", so I'll go for it (which often nets a counter hit), and mixup a throw or go for c.short, which again is often c.hit because the frame advantage is deceptive as well.

    i've gone for the set up twice since that post and i noticed the strict timing since my 1st attempt it whiffed and i forgot what happened after. the 2nd time i did it earlier and landed the hit but no connection for the bnb. depending on the timing of the set up i feel it could lead to different types of mix ups if the opponent has seen this set up before.
    Making Designer Combos
  • HAVHAV iori respawn Joined: Posts: 9,503

    2:44


    Please don't link to that match. :shake::sad::shake:
  • skisonicskisonic Joined: Posts: 1,131 mod
    Please don't link to that match. :shake::sad::shake:

    sorry man, i didnt want to but i thought it wouldnt really go over very well without a vid to illustrate the point.
    Its okay you had just gotten wonged out, it happens to everyone.

    one last note, to my knowledge, the most damaging combo you can get off that back hop is hopback RH, sRH xx run slash, but this is often tough because of how s.rh comes out out sort of slowly

    Alternatively, what i would see other players do (I mean i stole the whole hop back RH setup from Sage anyway, he was the first person I saw do it), go for standard shorts,jab, mp slice combo. But I wont even mess with that against bison.*

    This may go without saying, but a good alternative is s.mp, which you can obviously then cancel overhead if you feel like, gives you +2 on block if not, and on hit easily easily 2in1 runslash.

    *edit: actually I cant say I wont, cuz I did in that or the next fight. Here was my genius thinking "ILL SURVIVE THE SCISSORS KICK AND MAYBE HE WILL ACTIVATE OUT OF FRUSTRATION AND WASTE THE METER TO DO THE POSSIBLE 100 POINTS OF DAMAGE I HAVE LEFT". not smart.
    Internationally known. East coast home.

    I bet some people thank god for the internet and the keyboard everynight when they pray. "NOW I CAN SAY WHATEVER I WANT!" - big|dave
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