The only ken thread you will EVER need

Higher-JinHigher-Jin MvC2 ModeratorJoined: Posts: 1,953
Here i put it as a attachment since it doesnt' seem towant to post (too long)

enjoy i hope i'll try to redo it with the formatting it had before
Either we all live in a decent world, or nobody does. - George Orwell
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Comments

  • The Bucket Of TruthThe Bucket Of Truth VINTAGE Michael Cole Joined: Posts: 764 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    herv is down dude :(

    i have a ken question though, why isnt ken used more? his assist is just like son son but it's invisible. i use him a lot and just thought a lot more people would play him because of how great his assist is..sigh i'll never get it?
    Kobayashi told reporters he had a sandwich and a glass of milk while being held.

    "I am very hungry," he said. "I wish there were hot dogs in jail."
  • Higher-JinHigher-Jin MvC2 Moderator Joined: Posts: 1,953
    redid it, tutorial vid should come out soon.
    Either we all live in a decent world, or nobody does. - George Orwell
  • specsspecs Excuse me, princess! Joined: Posts: 6,380 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Um, this may be hideously late, but I don't see any attachment w/ the FAQ... :wonder:
    Carlos and Dave Anime Rave is the BEST damn anime review show on the internet! AnimeRave.xyz
  • Higher-JinHigher-Jin MvC2 Moderator Joined: Posts: 1,953
    some of the stuff is outdated

    the ken cross up thing is semi useful right now but you have to know when it crosses up

    marvel has a really weird special move property where a special move doesn't "cross up" until the opponent's character's sprite turns around

    Ken works good with sent-A because he's slow enough to let the commmand cross up (qcb+ punch) work like it should

    i can post it up later but some of the stuff probably isn't all that useful.

    Just remind me via PM if you can i'll try to do it tommorow.
    Either we all live in a decent world, or nobody does. - George Orwell
  • specsspecs Excuse me, princess! Joined: Posts: 6,380 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Higher-Jin wrote:
    some of the stuff is outdated

    the ken cross up thing is semi useful right now but you have to know when it crosses up

    marvel has a really weird special move property where a special move doesn't "cross up" until the opponent's character's sprite turns around

    Ken works good with sent-A because he's slow enough to let the commmand cross up (qcb+ punch) work like it should

    i can post it up later but some of the stuff probably isn't all that useful.

    Just remind me via PM if you can i'll try to do it tommorow.

    Sure mang, will do. Thanks! :china:
    Carlos and Dave Anime Rave is the BEST damn anime review show on the internet! AnimeRave.xyz
  • Higher-JinHigher-Jin MvC2 Moderator Joined: Posts: 1,953
    I just want to say this is all i knew about ken when i played him but some of it is outdated/obvious

    This will be THE definitive ken thread. I will put everything and anything you will need to know in this thread. I am retiring from mvc2 before i go i want to share everything i know about this very good character, although he lacks some mobility he can very much compete with top tiers I can assure you that he has what it takes if anyone puts in the time to master ken they won't be dissapointed i dare say he can compete with rogue in low tier madness.

    I will put the most relevant information on the top and the more basic information at the bottom (such as his special moves >_> and other gamefaq like crap)

    Ken Things You Should Know

    first off let's start with frame data, you can find frame data on all characters at: http://www.video-opera.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=354

    This is very key since you need to know which attacks are better than others, barring priority this is exactly what frame data does. I will also try to put in some of their uses aswell.

    LP [3]

    Decent Priority most likely, only real use is to prevent starter from jumping away which will most likely only help against cable, beware timing should be stricter than mags since he is shorter and it comes out one from later than his.

    D+LP [3]

    A all purpose rush in attack when your goal is not to apply pressure to a blocking opponent but instead trying to beat out their light attacks (which isn't a good idea against most rush in top tiers, personally i have not experimented with this move).


    LK [3]

    His fastest far reaching normal, barring priority again I would have to say this is one of his better normals the ability to hit any crouching opponent and it's good range make it very abuseable especially since it should combo into down + MK at a little less than max range.

    D+LK [4]

    Don't let the 4 fool you, this is pretty much the standard with all non-top tier characters, even storm only has a 3 frame version of this and on top of that only 3 frame attacks which mean you should be able to at least trade on a switch (not with this move but with his others). His fastest low hitting move and important tool in his pressure, you never know when you may hit a opponent low.


    MP [5]

    Pretty useless.


    d+MP [6]

    Nice range easy to combo into but does not hit low, which makes it second to d+MK.

    MK [6]

    Hits twice , easy to combo off of hits so high you would've liked that you could use it instead of s. lp against starting match jumpers.

    d+MK [6]

    The far reaching shoto d+MK this move is vital to ken's mixups , has nice reach and will usually combo into hadoken xxx shoryureppa (more on this later since the shoryureppa doesn't do enough on it's own) and ALWAYS combo into shoryureppa.

    HP [7]

    Makes a shoryureppa combo more damaging but you will have to use d. lk, standing hp on a crouching opponent since adding a mk will cause S. HP to whiff.

    d+HP [8]

    His main launcher , below average horizontal range nice vertical range and priority but slow to come out, always use df+HP version if you feel suicidal and want to beat out a jump in.

    HK [11]

    His farthest reaching normal outside of foward + HK think of it as Psylocke's standing HP except much slower but will hit crouching opponents. Overall i never use this move , ever.

    d+HK[9]

    The "Shoto Sweep"

    and the worst version too, coming out the slowest of all the shotos (losing to ryu's by 1 frame) but still useful if you can make juggle off of it, namely off of psylocke sweep xxx snapout can be useful.

    df+HP [7]

    It's the same as D+HP except 1 frame is shaved off, and we all know how important frames are in this game :rolleyes:

    j. LP [4]

    Bad range, doesn't compare to J. LK at all.

    j. LK [3]

    The greatest j. normal he has. it hits behind him, comboes into j. mk which also hits behind him nice range stays out there for ever and because of how the hit box is so low you can use the instant over head method with this move (more on that later).

    j. MP [5]

    Rivals j. lk as one of the better air normals despite being a "Middle" move. You can wait the longest time to cancel your last attack into this, this move is the reason why you can do his jumping infinite nice damage and range too i suppose but really it's the long long window to combo into it that makes it useful especially in infinites.

    j. MK [6]

    Has cross up capabilities like j. lk, hard to land it as a cross up though but don't count it out it's still very good.


    j. HP [7]

    Used in the air as pressure and a way to get around by cancelling into a hurricane kick this move has it's uses. 2nd most hit stun of his air fierces.

    j. HK [6]

    Fastest air fierce he has also has the least stun. But it also pushes the enemy the least back which makes it the best choice to use in sentinal standing infinites (even though the timing is stricter you get more hits and more hits means a better chance to get them to the corner and finish the infinite)


    SNAP [8+0]

    Much faster than his regular version but still not that much better, 8 frames is 1 frame slower than mags keep that in mind.

    TAG [18]

    Tags are good but this information is almost irrelevant.

    F+HK (overhead)[25]

    His farthest reaching normal, the down side to that is that if you do it at max range you get only 1 hit instead of two leaving you with only 5 damage. All in all it's a overhead and that in itself is useful enough.

    J. U+HK [8]

    The slowest of his air fierces but with the most stun, you should definantly consider ending a corner infinite on sentinal with this so you can land and combo into shoryu reppa xxx hail. it has nice horizontal range so it may be a good candidate to use against sentinal but then again so may j. HK.

    J. U+MK [6]

    This move is only used for the infinite, strict window to cancel it off of anything so use with discretion.


    For those who don't know this is only how fast the attacks comes out it is not recovery frames or anything else.

    Since I covered his normal moves I feel like I should cover his throws aswell

    Ken HP throw

    This throw is only good in the air, you will catch people alot with this i think he has good range with it it is very useful against those trying to jump around to avoid you.

    Ken HK Throw

    A mashable throw, a very good mashable throw at that.. you probably get up to half life if the other doesn't counter mash, personally the most i've gotten is 32 damage. Joe Zaza gave me some good advice on how to mash in his wolverine forum i hope he doesn't mind if i share it with you right now. Before i do though i just want to remind you of how much of a threat this move is, it does good enough damage and it important in your mix up game between high low and throw.
    ONE of these days I'll get back to this thread properly. Until then, I'll answer Higher-Jin.

    Usually, mashing (which SHOULD be called 'wiggling') is less in the buttons and more in the stick. This would be useful if everyone were southpaws, but since most people are right handed, they put more emphasis on the buttons.

    When it comes to wiggling, "make the wood clack" is what I usually say (meaning: wiggle it fast and hard enough to knock the wood around the joystick). That's step one.

    Step two is learning to respect a stick's neutral position. People that play P-groove or 3S know what I'm talking about here. You can't parry instantly by going from block to forward. Well, you can... but it requires a smooth motion from back-to-neutral-to-forward. An easier way is to operate in neutral. Most people operate their defense from the back or down-back position.

    All in all, if you want to become a parry fiend (or are preparing to parry), then stay keen and watch for what's coming. Operate your defense from neutral to get them off steadily.

    WHAT'S ALL THIS GOT TO DO WITH MARVEL, JOE??

    Step two is: instead of making the wood clack (don't try to skip step one... make the wood clack first!), respect neutral and wiggle that way. The CPU will respond to the movements quicker if you wiggle with it in mind. In other words, step two is to NOT make the wood clack.

    Now the BUTTONS are a different story. I have a theory about the buttons that works whenever I care to test it, but I rarely do. The only useful and systematic way to accelerate mashing with the buttons is a 'lil thing I call "rotation."

    Take the four buttons your point attacks with. Start at LP and rotate clockwise (from LP to HP to HK to LK back to LP again). This can be done with your index (LP) to middle (HP) to ring (HK) to thumb (LK). One you're in that position, you can actually rotate clockwise or counter-clockwise. But it's what works best, depending on how fast you get rotations.

    OF COURSE you can learn to "palm" the method and OF COURSE you can TRY to skip a button to increase rotation speed... all I'm trying to point out is that perhaps Capcom intended for its CPU to process the phenomena (which is actually our theory) of "random mashing" this way. I've always been about precision when it comes to fighting games... this is the most precise I've gotten when it comes down to it.

    Don't take all this to the bank and expect me to be #1 MASHA!! It takes energy. Like I said before: sometimes I can do it well (damn well) and sometimes I can't. So :p

    Anyway, hope that helped.


    Ken MiX Up'S

    This will give you some ideas on how to use mix ups in your game with ken, I will use my team as the example Ken A/ Storm A/ Psylocke A.

    One of the key elements to getting in on someone with any character is mobility and baiting assists.

    Once you are in either by block stun via j. Fierce of your choice xxx huricane kick or just being in the right place at the right time, making the opponent whiff ect. if your not trying to beat out your opponent's attacks (ala wolverine/bonerine) you should be trying to mix it up.

    Here is the bread and butter mix up and i dont' really think it's possible to guess it based on how it looks.

    Close as possible

    B n B mix up

    D. LK , D. MK (call psylocke)(make sure you called psy) Lp roll or HP roll.

    What happens with this is you either cross them up or you don't off of down lk, down mk at point blank a lp roll is too short to cross them up while hp roll makes it just about every time so you will force your opponent to make a decision and even then you dont' HAVE to call psylocke, you can call storm. (IMPORTANT: while i was playing this team i was having trouble juggling off of psylocke (ala magneto), i find it much easier to just launch them straight of of psylocke and adjust your air hurricane kick to how high they are, you generally want to start it as soon as your pushing up against their body, and it's much easier to do it off a neutral jump and slowly start moving foward on them or else you will whiff completely, his air hk comboes are his threat like cable's ahvb x 3, they are a reason to fear him and if he resets you(i'll show you how) you are dead)

    If your choosing to call storm i would suggest you call her earlier than psylocke because she takes a while to come out.

    You can also choose to do the basic mix up, c.lk into f+HK (overhead) if you think you can get away with it.

    but by rolling to the other side and with storms block stun via typhoon you can choose to go for the over head or just apply pressure, storm's block stun allow for extra pressure you can even choose to roll back to the original side and overhead just to make them more nervous.

    If you get them nervous, get them to block not attack that's when you can do things like this.

    C. lk, C. Mk (call storm) roll on the other side and Kick throw.

    You see by getting them used to calling storm early they'll know that if they try to counter attack you they'll get hit by a typhoon if you call her later than normal her start up will allow you to throw them before they are even hit by the typhoon

    There are even MORE storm mind games.

    such as up close lk hurricane kick + call storm, that in it self is a cross up because you land on the other side, and thanks to the block stun youc an apply pressure right away via overhead or low attacks, you can even tick them with crouching lk and throw them. This of course only works if they are crouching however if they switch to blocking high to avoid this you can use fierce kick hurricane kick and cross them up anyways.

    You do eight chips of block damage with storm and ken's lk hurricane anyways if they block so it's a useful technique to use along with his other cross ups.

    LASTLY , very important.

    The overhead fake out.... some opponents may immediately block high if they see you standing cuz they know of the over head.

    You can trick them by walking foward standing lk into down mk immediately standing lk looks ALOT like the beginning of the over head so this is very useful to use. Also with storms' block stun you can fit in 2 overheads TWO this is important because on the first or second overhead you can choose to do standing lk into crouching mk instead which is very threatening.

    I hope this helps.


    Air Hurricane Resets

    After landing a air hurricane kick in certain circumstances you are given the opportunity to reset your opponent for another killing them for certain some times. This is generally not a good idea off of a launch directly from psylocke (unless you juggle). Keep in mind that how you hit the hurricane kick will determine which kind of reset you can use i'll list the situations on each reset.

    The Ken-neto Reset.

    Situations:

    1.Off of ground launch (usually after being hit by storm's alpha assist)

    Down+Lk , Launch, Air j. lk xxx Fierce hurricane kick.

    2. off a juggle off of psylocke's assist.

    Psylocke hits, d. lk (juggle) launch , hurricane kick (all 4 hits)

    3. Off of psylocke hit into straight launch (no juggle) when approaching a corner.

    When landing your opponent should land a little earlier than you, you can mash out a lk right before you land which is really suddle since he seems to be doing hardly anything at all, which is a overhead you then land and do crouching lk, crouching mk call psy walk foward and launch again or if by yourself you can just do a shoryureppa.

    The Pop up reset

    Situations

    1. off of a ground launch into a air hurricane kick with no j. lk

    What happens is that you and your opponent will just about recover at the same time with you most likely recovering a little sooner.

    If your opponent tries to hit you you can mash out a jumping lk and if you do you'll "Pop him up" what happens here is that you can either walk under and c. lk launch from the other side or you can take a safer route in jump up foward lk (cross up) + psylocke when you land, since it hits behind you you'll hit him from the other side while he is in the air.


    Those are the 2 main resets.

    now on to something very neglected yet very useful.

    Invincibility , Reversals, and you

    Ken has alot of emphasis on invincibility in his moves, his jab and fierce srk both have alot of invincibility so of course his assist does too. He has 2 instant start up supers with invincibility and another one that isn't instant start up but it's invincible too and is much better to counter rush ins.

    I am really unsure if the srk is instant in it's start up, but i would have to say it is which makes it a great counter to tri jumps much like's cyclops is. I would have recommend using the jab version for 6 damage less it leaves you less open and always does it's damage if it connects. Be warned it gives sentinal unfly. It's also hard to get out on time without anticipation.

    I would have to recommend a shinryuken for a reversal against wake up mix up games just don't get predictable use these moves sparringly they are good just not abuseable.

    Just a quick reference:

    Jab Srk : Invincible while on fire

    Fierce Srk: Same as Jab Srk

    Shoryureppa: Instant start up, invincible for the first uppercut was made to be really easy to combo into, you can dhc AFTER the last hit into hail ect. you can also dhc into butterfly super when youa re starting to lift them off the ground on the third uppercut (easier on sentinal). Also note that it does good chip if dhced into hail or Shoryureppa, Psy Thrust, Hail.

    Shinryuken: Instant start up, invincible all the way up, can avoid a whole hail storm, great reversal if you miss dhc you'll have alot of time to while your opponent can't really do anything

    Shippu Jinrai Kyaku: Invincible on start invincible and early in the super (the first kick maybe second kick) it's very good and doesn't leave you as open as shoryu reppa/shinryuken, but you are still vulnerable although sentinal without psylocke/cyclops but with commando will have a hard time punishing you so you can do it almost for free (don't count on it though)

    in short learn how to do reversals with ken, they will save you and it's a lost art in mvc2 so even more unexpected. On that note some people may not know but you can "tick moves" like you can put the input a little earlier than you are able to do the move as long as you finish the input by the time your character isa ble to do it he'll do it instantly which is very useful in doing reversals... What? you didn't think you had to put foward , down , down foward punch in one frame did you :P

    Crossing up with Ken

    Ken has a few moves that can help you cross up. I will also cover his instant over head in this section.

    CvS2 , SF2 style cross ups.

    as already said , j. lk, and j. mk can cross up. For those who don't know what that is, some moves have a hit box that hits so far behind them that you can do it while jumping over the opponent thus hitting him on the other side. The best way to land his cross up is aiming his j. lk right on top of their head then doing j. mk right after.

    Incoming Character Cross - Ups

    There is only 1 and Dj-b13 came up with it before i did and i only explored it more cuz i saw it on one of his videos.


    Character comes in (after death or snap out) dash under, call assist , command roll (down, back , p).

    You can also mix it up by wave dashing since his dash is the same animation as his roll and even makes the same sound you can do some nasty mix ups with this.

    The method of doing it is like this if you keep getting hadoukens when you cross over.

    Which ever side you were originally on when you dashed under, do down, back ,p (command roll) in relation to that so if you started on 1p side when you dash under even though you are now in 2 p side do the command roll as if you were on 1p side.

    Hope that helps if you can't do it.

    and finally

    Instand Over Head

    Most characters when just starting to jump can cancel into a normal, this is very useful for low tiers that don't have tri jumps. If pressing up foward with lk with ken you can even hit a crouching opponent with a overhead lk pretty much right away and if you called psylocke before you did that she will combo off of it which means you have a chance to juggle. You won't land fast enough to do a launch without juggling like you normally would so a juggle is the only chance you have. You can also use instant overheads with most other characters... i didn't come up with this.

    Hurricane kick cross up

    this is really impractical (doesn't even hit high) but just so you know as long as your opponent's back is turned you cannot hit him with the spinning leg of your hurricane kick.

    when you jump over wait for his sprite to turn around then do it will most likely hit. On another note if you do it close enough to the ground you can combo into shoryureppa afterwards but it is very risky and should be mainly done to show off/mix it up i would have to say.


    Ken's Mobility and Stats

    Ken takes 106% damage which is the same as mags and storm.

    This also makes him a alot better assist, i would have to say that ken and storm have some good things going for it so if you ever feel like dhcing ken out after a blocked shoryu reppa do it, he has one of the best aaa in the game.


    now on to his mobility. His hurricane kick is good to make him move foward and even from a neutral jump simply press foward and then press the hurricane kick right after and see what happens. He also has a air fireball which can slow down his decent (vs . sentinal unblockable) A decent way to get around is jumping HK into hurricane kick but mags can sometimes beat that with jumping short somehow (gay). He can also super jump foward and cancel into lk hurricane immediately or hk hurricane lk will allow him to recover right above their heads and hk will have added protection possibly although he spins more after wards.
    His hurricane kick during jump is very vital to closing the gap against storm which can be a pain to wave dash against. Just remember controlling your descent is very important so know what does what and use at your discretion ken has no double jump but he has access to all his moves in the air (barring the roll) and are very helpful to his mobility and play on point overall.

    I'd also like to note that he can cancel into all 6 hits on the ground which means you can do, d. LK, D. HP, then go into the overhead off of that.


    Ken The meter builder

    This may be misleading this is just a very small technique and it's not safe against anyone who is not run away storm, i dont' know how useful this technique can be but i'd like to let you know. Standing hp into jab srk is just about as good as cyke's double fierce, jab srk build's a fierce worth of meter (also leaves you completely open) but this is very useful against storm in case they are building meter and you want to dhc out or whatever. Just wanted to let you know.

    Ken the team player

    Ken really has to rely on his assists to get in his air hurricane kick comboes down and to use most of his cross ups. With assists i'd put him almost on par with mags (Note: due to the special move property i found out after i wrote this i no longer think this) because even though he doesn't have the type of mix up mags has he brings invincibility, better stamina, and a better assist to the table. Not to mention even more damaging comboes.

    I would suggest using ken until he is KOed some of the time depending on the match up because ken by himself probably won't be as useful as Ken with assists (not to say he's useless, vs. even top tiers he can most likely hold his own at least as much as if not more than commando can) the thing is he can mix up with either assist so even if they kill psy or storm it's not like strider+doom he has mix ups with both and can survive with both.

    Not to mention than Storm + Ken means unavoidable hail storms.

    Ken beats out almost every assist for free, make them remember that and if you make ken's assist cover the few spots they can counter attack you you basically get a free hail on their assist for free, not to mention ken does a little more damage than commando when all 3 hits connect and that's not bad at all for a a invincible assist.

    I'd also like to mention that storm and psylocke isn't that bad either and this team overall works very well together (much like msp).

    One quick note, most times lightning storm won't dhc into shinryuken but if dhcing into psylock in between and the very top of her butter fly super connects (where they get popped up a little at the end) it will dhc into shinryuken which still does a decent ammount of damage even as a combo ender (27 damage i would guess).

    Ken Infinites and Special Notes

    Ken has 2 infinites that work on most characters and many variations on one that works on a standing sentinal.

    In the corner, hurricane infinite:

    After psylocke or just catching them in the air somehow:

    Jumping lp, jumping mp, hurricane kick repeat (must be neutral jump).

    A note about this is that you can do it for up to 84 hits for some reason resulting in 132 damage. It is a very very good idea to try to land this if you can, its' very easy to do.

    Normal jump infinite (anywhere)

    After psylocke, jump up lp, j. mp, j. u. mk

    this is tough , i cant' even do it consitently, it's most useful after a corner shinryuken since you can add like 10 points of damage.

    Sentinal Infinite:

    (can be done of a cross up which is very easy to do on sentinal, you can also use U. HK as a cross up against him if he is standing)

    jump up foward [lk, mp, mk, hk] repeat in brackets.

    you can do it much longer if you do the hk not too low to the ground and do the jumping lk immediately after you jump since hk has so little hit stun. If you get to the corner you can switch to a infinite that has more stun on the heavy which is most likely easier to do.

    credit to scrubkiller , well that's who i learned it from.

    here is what he does in the corner he calls it the "iron man"

    you can do lp, lp, mk , hp like iron man's infinite in the corner, but when switching from the

    jump up foward [lk, mp, mk, hk] repeat in brackets.

    infinite, i suggest you end your last rep of that one with a hp so it's easier to get in the lp for the "ironman".





    Ken Move Commands and damage ratings

    This is very basic.

    Hadouken: Down , Foward, P [12 damage Light or Heavy]
    Hurricane Kick: Down, Back, K [18 damage light, 22 heavy]
    Shoryuken: Foward, Down, Down+foward , P [20 damage light, 26 heavy]
    Command Roll (cross up) Down, Back , P [No damage]

    Air Hadouken: Down, Foward , P [same as ground]
    Air Hurricane Kick: Down, Back, K [63 damage if all 4 kicks connect about 17 damage for each kick before the third]
    Air Shoryuken: Foward, Down, Down+Foward , P [Light : 14, Heavy: 18]

    All these moves are useful, learn them all.


    One note about the roll you can be throw out of it i believe (like captain america's roll) you can fake them out and dash into a down lk to teach those guys a lesson. You also cannot get on the other side in the corner should their back be to the wall you can use this to fake them out and make them think you are going to cross them up.


    Lastly a hadoken can also be very helpful in covering psylocke from mags and can also be cancelled into a reversal super should they try to jump over it to clober you.


    I'd like to thank all those who sat through this whole guide, and i'll miss this game. Ken can be really good and i hope someone picks em up but if someone even uses him for casual play that would be cool.


    - Higher Jin

    note: at the time i was retiring but it didn't actually happen ;P
    Either we all live in a decent world, or nobody does. - George Orwell
  • specsspecs Excuse me, princess! Joined: Posts: 6,380 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Thanks, Higher-Jin! You're my hero for today. :china:
    Carlos and Dave Anime Rave is the BEST damn anime review show on the internet! AnimeRave.xyz
  • MagnetoManiacMagnetoManiac EX MagMan™ Joined: Posts: 6,697
    Very nice, you took ken to a new level, I've always loved playing MSK(Y) and Scrub2k5(Ken AA) and alot of other ken teams. Very good shit, you make low tier characters look top.
    凸 (⊙▃⊙) 凸 Hold that
    Team "Get that shit outta here"
    So, do YOU know the match-up?! - team gdlk
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Actually I play Ken/Storm/Sent regularly, casual or not. But plays here in Singapore are always casual. So doesn't matter.

    Ken's invincibility scares me. Alot. Shoryureppa punishes whiffed random rocket punches.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    that was a good ken thread higher-jin.

    i got this tight ken combo also. its kinda similar to the overhead mixup you talked about.
    basically, it's a "3s" (3rd strike) style combo. if you play ken in that game, you know what i'm talkin about.
    anyways i did this combo with ken and storm projectile assist..

    you know how people block low against ken cuz they expect low short kick, low medium kick XX shoryureppa? well, i tried this trick. since the guy was blocking low, i did the command overhead (torwards+roundhouse) and right before i did i called out storm proj assist. both hits from the overhead connected and the 3 hits from the storm projectile assist also connected. since the guy was still in hit stun, i did shoryureppa super right after ken recovered from the overhead, and it connected. i probably could have dashed and launched to the air HK combo (does more than shoryureppa), but I just did the easy combo. this combo is tight because it looks like ken's back+mk overhead XX SA3 combo in 3rd strike. if crouching characters took a little more damage in marvel (like they do in 3s), this combo would be even better.

    also, HJ, i've been trying to learn other "3s combos."

    i know low short, low medium, standing fierce XXshippu works in the corner, but in midscreen it wont connect. how do u connect shippu midscreen?low short, low forwardXXfireballXXshippu? also, how much more damage does low short, low medium XXfireballXXshoryureppa compared to low short,mediumXXshoryu?

    also, shippu (qcb+2k) is usually ken's weakest super in this game, but did you know that if you mash the kick buttons ken goes higher and does more kicks and adds more damage to the super? somebody told me about that at the arcade, and it does work.

    and one more thing. i noticed that if you are on the ground and do a fierce shoryuken, you can cancel the first hit into shinryuken. its kinda hard to do. but i was thinking ,you know how psylocke can do her uppercutXXbutterfly to DHC out safely, and cyke can do gene spliceXXmega optic blast to DHC out? maybe ken can do that to safely dhc out while also doing damage(remember, the SRK and the supers are invincible), so for example he could do fierce SRK XXshoryureppa (or shinryuken) DHC right away to hail storm and it will connect. if you cancel into the shoryureppa, the super wont connect by itself, but they will still be in hit stun from the first hit of the SRK, so hail storm will combo
    another you can do if you have 2 meters, is, if they are jumping with attack, counter into ken (if he's on Anti air assist), cancel first hit of fierce SRK into shinryuken, and it will connect.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Ill E wrote:
    that was a good ken thread higher-jin.
    and one more thing. i noticed that if you are on the ground and do a fierce shoryuken, you can cancel the first hit into shinryuken. its kinda hard to do. but i was thinking ,you know how psylocke can do her uppercutXXbutterfly to DHC out safely, and cyke can do gene spliceXXmega optic blast to DHC out? maybe ken can do that to safely dhc out while also doing damage(remember, the SRK and the supers are invincible), so for example he could do fierce SRK XXshoryureppa (or shinryuken) DHC right away to hail storm and it will connect. if you cancel into the shoryureppa, the super wont connect by itself, but they will still be in hit stun from the first hit of the SRK, so hail storm will combo
    another you can do if you have 2 meters, is, if they are jumping with attack, counter into ken (if he's on Anti air assist), cancel first hit of fierce SRK into shinryuken, and it will connect.

    Hey I didn't know that. I dun think most Ken players know that too. Kudos to you for posting that!!!. :tup:
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    ArTiCwInD wrote:
    Hey I didn't know that. I dun think most Ken players know that too. Kudos to you for posting that!!!. :tup:

    thanks. i actually learned about the alpha counter into ken AAXXshinryuken from this other ken player. i actually mistyped it. i meant to say, if they do a JUMP-IN ATTACK, (like cable's jump in fierce), counter into ken ,cancel 1st hit of SRK into shinryuken.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    But if you also realise, u need a safe tag because of hailstorm, the counter thing works as well, since Shinryuken goes through it totally.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    ArTiCwInD wrote:
    But if you also realise, u need a safe tag because of hailstorm, the counter thing works as well, since Shinryuken goes through it totally.


    just tested the ken stuff on my DC yesterday. you can actually cancel after the SECOND HIT of the fierce shoryuken, before he gets off the ground. yesterday i said cancel after the 1st hit. so i tested this yesterday, i did fierce shoryuken, then canceled to shoryureppa DHC to hailstorm, and the combo meter was still at 2 (the 2 hits from the SRK), and they were knocked up in the air on fire/ in hit stun from the SRK and the hailstorm comboed from the SRK (not the super).
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Lol, counter hailstorm. But that takes 3 meters. Harsh.

    I'd rather counter shoryureppa. Since the fierce shoryuken is invulnerable, you have sort of like 2 invlun hits for shoryureppa. The usual shoryureppa is only invuln first hit.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    ArTiCwInD wrote:
    Lol, counter hailstorm. But that takes 3 meters. Harsh.

    I'd rather counter shoryureppa. Since the fierce shoryuken is invulnerable, you have sort of like 2 invlun hits for shoryureppa. The usual shoryureppa is only invuln first hit.


    you can't counter SRK XXshoryureppa.because the SRK normally doesnt combo into shoryureppa(but it does combo into shinryuken). if you try to cancel, they will be knocked into the air and the shoryureppa wont connect, and they'll land and punish you when ken lands for the super. like i said the idea of doing fierce SRK XXshoryureppa is not to combo into it(because they dont combo it each othe) but to DHC to hailstorm because it comes out instantly when you DHC, fast enough that they are still in hitstun from the SHORYUKEN, not the super.

    edit: you could counter into ken's projectile assist XXshoryureppa, but.. who uses ken's projectile assist? its useless.
  • Higher-JinHigher-Jin MvC2 Moderator Joined: Posts: 1,953
    Well listen, the reason you can cancel out of the srk on the ground is because at first it is grounded but since ken has no air supers this is why he can't do anything after it leaves the ground. You can do akuma's uppercut and in the air before the recovery period do the air fireball super.

    Yea you can use the overhead+ assist it's just that ken has a slow overhead so try to keep that in mind he can also cancel out of it after a launch (c.hp) or really any normal that isn't a roundhouse.

    as for the shippu question the short awnser to how you combo it midscreen is you don't, it also isn't worth the damage which is only a little more than shoryureppa it's more of a different kind of blow through super.

    A legit use for shippu is call sabretooth b or doom b and do a shippu you get the invincibility without the risk of shoryureppa which has too long a recovery period to be covered by most assists. Remember shippu is invincible on most if not all of it's start up before the super flash (when he lifts up his leg) he is then invincible for the first kick or so

    The comboes I tend to use for shoryureppa are:

    c. lk, c. mk shoryureppa (this is a max range combo and can work at most distances )

    c. lk, standing hp, hadouken xxx shoryureppa (max damage combo will only work up close on most crouching characters)

    c. lk, c. mk, hp hadouken, shoryureppa (the compromise combo, it works from further distances than the max damage combo and does a bit more damage then the max range combo)

    Hope these help, another interesting note is that you can make the shoryureppa relatively safe (not ahvb safe mind you) by doing a team hyper combo with sabretooth-b
    Either we all live in a decent world, or nobody does. - George Orwell
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Usually against Cable, almost nothing is safe.

    I got this question regarding Ken's qcb + p. How safe is it? It works for crossing-up now and then after a blockstring. But you can be caught by Psylocke, etc.

    But there's this tricky thing about Shoryuureppa which I can say has saved me randomly a couple of times. Ken comes down BEHIND the opponent after a whiffed Shoryuureppa. Not in front.

    So yeah, opponent whiffs s.hk, etc. and I get a free launch into air combo.

    I'm using Ken/Storm/Sent(y) or Ken/Storm/Colossus(dash) now. Used to play Ken/Storm/Doom. But Sent is too good with this team.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    ArTiCwInD wrote:

    I got this question regarding Ken's qcb + p. How safe is it? It works for crossing-up now and then after a blockstring. But you can be caught by Psylocke, etc.

    But there's this tricky thing about Shoryuureppa which I can say has saved me randomly a couple of times. Ken comes down BEHIND the opponent after a whiffed Shoryuureppa. Not in front.

    So yeah, opponent whiffs s.hk, etc. and I get a free launch into air combo.

    I'm using Ken/Storm/Sent(y) or Ken/Storm/Colossus(dash) now. Used to play Ken/Storm/Doom. But Sent is too good with this team.

    1) yeah i know what you are talkin about with the shoryureppa. unless they pushblock it, its kinda safe, especially if their back is in the corner. for some reason, ken lands behind them, especially if they have a slow launcher(like sent), ken is pretty safe. Also, I was playing against somebody playing ken the other day, i was using ruby heart, he did shoryureppa while i was in the corner but i blocked, anyways, i pushblocked after the 1st uppercut (or 2nd, i cant remember :confused: ), but anyways i pushblocked,and right before ken did the 3rd uppercut, i threw him out of the super by accident! I did the fierce throw with ruby heart by accident, i didnt know you can throw ken out of a super... (kinda like how you can throw dudley out of his uppercut super in 3S)

    2) the roll (qcb+p), i dont know how safe it is.. but i did notice that you can cancel into it, just like a regular special move. I didnt know you could do that. so you can call a assist + standing roundhouseXXroll ,even better, call assist, do crouchin lk XXroll, then do the overhead on the other side of them and hopefully they are still blockin low.

    also, articwind, i play collosus/ken/sent sometimes. the colossus corner air combo DHC into shinryuken is a tight combo.
  • Higher-JinHigher-Jin MvC2 Moderator Joined: Posts: 1,953
    I wouldn't rely on that shoryureppa trick all they have to do is wait a little bit and then launch you.

    The command roll isn't really all that safe but it's kinda good if they push block you because when they do you can do a roll and gain some distance and get in a little easier.

    You can use it to cross up sometimes but here are some other neat tricks:

    when you knock out someone and a another person is coming in dash under them and then put in the command roll command if you keep getting hadoukens you may have to input the command backwards so it will work so try it in training mode first.

    What will happen is that you will cross up your opponent twice and you can mix up between crossing them up once or twice along with a assist makes it a little tricky to block.

    Also a good cross up with ken and a assist is:

    C. lk, c. mk hp command roll or lp command roll (one will cross up the other won't) and sent a
    Either we all live in a decent world, or nobody does. - George Orwell
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Higher-Jin wrote:

    when you knock out someone and a another person is coming in dash under them and then put in the command roll command if you keep getting hadoukens you may have to input the command backwards so it will work so try it in training mode first.

    What will happen is that you will cross up your opponent twice and you can mix up between crossing them up once or twice along with a assist makes it a little tricky to block.

    yeah, thats a good trick. sometimes when they are coming in and are near the corner, i call storm proj assist and do a fierce roll, and if they try to do an attack when they are coming in they get hit by storm's assist from behind, then ken can do a air combo or shoryureppa
  • Higher-JinHigher-Jin MvC2 Moderator Joined: Posts: 1,953
    Higher-Jin wrote:
    Sent drones are too slow it's better to use rocket punch assist even then there is some vulnerability when using the roll and it is suceptible to push block.

    If you are dead set on using ken try to make a strategy that centers on landing a hurricane kick combo (lands all four hits of the hurricane kick in a air combo) and if you can't do that consistently then you should know these comboes:

    c. lk, c. mk xxx shoryu max range
    c. lk, standing hp xx hp hadouken xxx shoryu max damage
    c. lk, c. mk, hp hadouken xxx shoryu

    He has good priority on his j. hp and you can sometimes do jump up foward hp xxx hurricane kick.

    His up+hk has alot of hit stun and crosses up but it's kinda hard to use try to aim it at the top of their head. Another thing to note that since it has alot of hit stun if you connect with it you can dash in and do a light attack into launch which is something that is usually harder to do.

    Also make sure you learn about ken's invincibility.

    Ken sent isn't really a good duo IMO if you use the rocket punch + roll cross up keep this in mind:

    if you do it up close, hp roll will cross up and lp roll will NOT which leads to mix up games.

    Ken has some real problems having a mix up game so maybe you can try rogue V so you can land some of your comboes.

    Some other tips are:

    - Free Shippu attempts when used with doom b

    - Free shoryureppa when THC with sabretooth b (although not cable safe)

    - Free uppercut attempts when used with sent g

    i wouldn't suggest ken if you are a beginner

    he also has two infintes but they are hard to land and one is only done in the corner and I personally can't really do the mid screen one


    just something i wrote down in the sent forum alot of this you prolly know or i have already said but there are a few things i want to bring up which is rogue's assist and the fact that on a landed up+hk you can dash in and do a hurricane kick combo.
    Either we all live in a decent world, or nobody does. - George Orwell
  • Nep2uneNep2une Joined: Posts: 122
    Ken/Storm/Tron

    Rolling and double rolling with tron plus hurricane kick cross ups are just filthy, one combo equals nearly dead character
    plus he has little need for supers unless you need him out so he's a decent meter builder.

    If you have Tron on your team AND you get lucky and land his sentinel infinite you can reset sent easily with the roll or a hurricane kick and tron, once he's in this infinite don't let him out alive!!! He has to be Ken's worst match!

    Come to think of it all of the big four rape him easily :-( even magz unles your blocking really well.
    North Shore BABEH!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I'd just like to follow-up on a few stuff.

    a) Tick-throwing with Ken into Sent drones? Anyone tried?

    b) What the hell is Ken's infinite on Sentinel?

    c) How do you get out of a situation where opponent blocks a d.lk, d.hp chain?

    And on regards to fighting Magneto, its impt to keep your pressure ON Magneto, not the other way around. IMHO I try to move in on Magneto with lk hurricane kicks and controlling space with Sent drones. And think about it, the less you block, the lesser chance you screw up blocking a tri-angle jump.

    And worse to worse if your opponent's Magneto or Storm comes in tri-jumping over your head, qcf + 2ks would solve your problem. The plus point, you get your guy with a chance of DHC into hail AND it deters a second try without the opponent thinking.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    :clown: :clown: yea i dont get y ken isnt used thst much he is one of my favorite characters
    besides akuma and wolverine
    i think that ken is the best for the best. :encore:
  • GreenGreen jay's dad Joined: Posts: 2,267
    God damn. Those "resets" off the 4-kick air HK are too fucking good.

    My two cents (with Team Shoto):

    Ken/Ryu-proj - (j.u+hk) c.lk+Ryu xx HP roll c.lk c.hp ^ ...
    Ryu/Akuma-exp - (j.hk) c.lk+Akuma c.mk xx LK Tatsu (wait for Akuma's hits to end) TK SH, ~50%
    pride is beautiful
  • AQUA-PURAAQUA-PURA @theasianloner Joined: Posts: 1,634
    u no, mvc2 is all about combos, this ain't sf3 where combos, karas, and links come on by. u need combos in this game have u ever seen ken connect a hadouken with a jinrai?? NO

    in this game even mega-man has better combos, sakura tops mega-man too, akuma is pretty good but i'd rather stick with one big air-fire ball instead of something like 32 super-duper-weak ones
    i think they mada shotos real weak in this game too so at least i'm at u guys side too
    "DingDangDoom... BITCH MAKE ROOM!" - DDD
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    ken + tron = the shit

    s.hp+tron, roll, s.hp, s.hp, fireball xx QCF+2p

    or you can launch instead of the 3rd hp for the glitched hurricane kicks
  • Cardo PCardo P Joined: Posts: 27
    hey off topic or whatever but after doin about 50 to 60 hits with the Kenfinite what's the timin in doin his shinryuken afterwards sometimes I hit sometimes its blocked any suggestions
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    You can juggle with a deep s.lp, s.lp, shinryuken
  • RisunoMeijinRisunoMeijin +39 on block Joined: Posts: 641
    u no, mvc2 is all about combos, this ain't sf3 where combos, karas, and links come on by. u need combos in this game have u ever seen ken connect a hadouken with a jinrai?? NO

    in this game even mega-man has better combos, sakura tops mega-man too, akuma is pretty good but i'd rather stick with one big air-fire ball instead of something like 32 super-duper-weak ones
    i think they mada shotos real weak in this game too so at least i'm at u guys side too

    Um....You can ground magic series HadoxxShippu...just need to take hits out of magic series if they arent on the wall so they dont get pushed back. On the wall if I remember correctly you get FS OTG or an unrollable OTG for free after Shoryu Reppa. This can be further linked into shin shoryu, or an air combo with the Tatsumaki ender with mixup options afterwards.

    Ken has good combos. Hell, Ken has sent only infinites and normal sized char infinites that can both be ended with a super. Seriously, Ken has really good combo potential in this game.

    Also, whiff cancels are important with a lot of characters. This is pretty much the same as a using a kara move in most cases.

    And also, megaman doesn't really revolve around combos. Im pretty sure the most damaging solo megaman combo is gonna be around the same damage as the most damaging solo Ken combo, even if you start megaman's combo with j.FP, which is rocket punch damage.
    Hint of Lime is GODLIKE.
  • Cardo PCardo P Joined: Posts: 27
    Man Ken's corner infinite is all the way real, I say go for it whenever u get the chance once perfected its too easy then end with super hella damage & like Rogueish said u can infinite on almost all charaters. Mash that "Kenfinite" shit!!!
  • HollowHollow International asshole Joined: Posts: 1,257
    VDO vs Shawn, seeing who has the better Ken

    ..you pretty much win the round on straight up man juice once you activate FRKZ..
    -QwertyHero
    youtube.com/lordhollow
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Man Ken's corner infinite is all the way real, I say go for it whenever u get the chance once perfected its too easy then end with super hella damage & like Rogueish said u can infinite on almost all charaters. Mash that "Kenfinite" shit!!!
    Also you can do a j.lp, j.lp, j.hp, j.hurricane kick (doesnt matter which one) cancel into his shoryureppa (only let the first wave hit) and DHC. Of course all DHC wont work but some useful ones are proton cannon, hailstorm, colossus headbutt (thats for VDO). You cant cancel into hsf but if you delay the timing a tad you can cross up with it and all three sets of drones will hit.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    More ken notes...
    You can also connect a shinryuken to ken's MIDSCREEN infinite (j.lp, j.lp j. up+lk).

    If the character is a big sprite doing j.lp, j.lk, j. up+lk is easier and you can also use this variation if you sense that the character is getting to low to make the next rep of his j.lp, j.lp j. up+lk version combo however the timing on the next rep is a little tricky so i normally will try to s.lp, s.lp shinryuken.

    When you land either of ken's standing infinites (j.lp, j.lp, j.lk, j.hp or j.lp, j.lp, j.hp, hurricane kick) on sentinel you should attempt to combo him until you reach the corner and finish with s.lp, s.hpxxqcb+kk super instead of shoryureppa. It can be mashed for more damage.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    ken, I have a question in question there is a specific time to do more damage with the grip of kicking or a combination of buttons please help
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    If you want quick easy damage but havent got the corner infinite perfected yet you can do j.lp, j.lp, j.hp xx into hk hurricane kick, launcher (before the opponent hits the ground) sj.lp, hk hurricane kick.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I am interested in this widely grip in particular, as it would be a little of the things I missing ken
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Extra note if you hit your opponent with a deep cr. roundhouse and decided to shinryuken you can add more damage by tacking on a hadoken before the shinryuken. Combo will go cr. rh, s. lp. hadokenxxshinryuken. It is not a bread and butter combo and should only be used for flash.
  • dodgers2213dodgers2213 Joined: Posts: 3,028
    what is the recomended assist for Ken to use?

    I know his Hadouken is just about usless since it disappears about half way across the screen.

    I been using his Shoryuken anti-air and never tried his expansion type. Is that usefull?

    I'm pretty new at the game and have mostly played Marvel vs capcom 1. I got into this one when I found out there was an arcade near my house and it was only a quarter per play Played about 20 matches against my friend
    The team i have had the most success was Iron Man (projectile), Ken (ant-air), Cammy (dash)
    Steam- Dodgers2213
    PS4-- Dodgers2213
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