Capcom admits Brawl is a fighting game

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  • alphazealotalphazealot Smashboards Owner Joined: Posts: 302
    And the world isn't flat.

    Who knew?
  • EDDUREDDUR Banana Joined: Posts: 981
    Woop-tee-doo.
  • FlugaFluga ???WHAT GOES HERE??? Joined: Posts: 351
    Too Bad Brawl is shit compared to its hacked versions.

    Despite this, its still not worth taking seriously.
  • GizaGiza SoCal Power Stoner Joined: Posts: 619
    Yep its a real fighting game. Like pretty fighter.
  • keninblackkeninblack Joined: Posts: 3,480
    Games a joke, play Melee.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Wtf?
  • keninblackkeninblack Joined: Posts: 3,480
    Wtf?

    Thats what people say when they play brawl right after playing Melee.

    Followed by "Why the fuck are we playing this? Lets go play Melee!"
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    wow!...cool
    and I like brawl and play it almost everyday, but melee and 64 are better IMO
  • *P*L*U*R**P*L*U*R* Joined: Posts: 43
    You know, us smashers trying harder and harder to validate ourselves to the fighting game community only invalidates us more.

    Why do you care?
    Super Smash Brothers- Apathy
    Blazblue- Litchi
    Street Fighter 4- Sakura
    Guilty Gear- Bridget
    Touhou- Marisa
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Thats what people say when they play brawl right after playing Melee.

    Followed by "Why the fuck are we playing this? Lets go play Melee!"

    Exactly what I said when I bought that crap game.
  • Clembo2021Clembo2021 Who reads this? Joined: Posts: 534
    So Capcom admits it's a real fighting game whilst Nintendo admits it's a party game? DOES NOT COMPUTE.

    Also Seth is just giving one man's opinion. Killian does not represent all of Capcom...
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Funny. After playing Brawl, I actually couldn't play Melee. I couldn't do anything more complicated than the basics. So I stuck with Brawl and it's story and learned to, you know, deal with it (And like it).

    So I sit on the end of the spectrum that likes Brawl. Its awfully lonely...Melee sucks :P
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    This caught my eye...
    I can?t imagine how crummy Marvel Vs Capcom 2 would be today if we had started banning things the first time we thought something was ?overpowered? or ?too random.?

    Then why do you guys ban neutral guard?
  • keninblackkeninblack Joined: Posts: 3,480
    Funny. After playing Brawl, I actually couldn't play Melee. I couldn't do anything more complicated than the basics. So I stuck with Brawl and it's story and learned to, you know, deal with it (And like it).

    So I sit on the end of the spectrum that likes Brawl. Its awfully lonely...Melee sucks :P

    Thats what you get for playing a slow wonky piece of shit.

    Just go packed to fast paced skill involved Melee. Doctors agree that your body will feel 80% better! :tup:
  • *P*L*U*R**P*L*U*R* Joined: Posts: 43
    Damn son.

    Play whatever you like.

    I admit though, when Brawl first came out, I more or less dropped melee for a month or so. Going back to Melee, everything felt hella fast. hell, you get used to it though.
    Super Smash Brothers- Apathy
    Blazblue- Litchi
    Street Fighter 4- Sakura
    Guilty Gear- Bridget
    Touhou- Marisa
  • FlugaFluga ???WHAT GOES HERE??? Joined: Posts: 351
    http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=120286

    Someone actually thinks Brawl is good.

    I know I have a soft spot in me for Smash, but the series only had Melee to give it its scene. 64 was had too much hit-stun, and Brawl takes very little skill to play unless your playing a shitty character.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=120286

    Someone actually thinks Brawl is good.

    I know I have a soft spot in me for Smash, but the series only had Melee to give it its scene. 64 was had too much hit-stun, and Brawl takes very little skill to play unless your playing a shitty character.

    I don't see what Melee has on Brawl...The only character that really takes little skill is Metaknight in Brawl. And, compared to Melee, there are more characters that are actually WORTH playing as.
  • *P*L*U*R**P*L*U*R* Joined: Posts: 43
    The thing is, Metaknight is considered in a league of his own while the rest of the cast gets stomped by him seeing as he has the highest priority in the game, alot of very reliable attack strings, can gimp easily and is ungimpable. He has no bad stages and his lightweight is offset by his great momentum cancel and redonkulous recovery(so he's more like a mid-heavy?).

    Hell, even Melee Fox had bad traits. While his fast falling speed allowed him to pressure better than most, it also made him susceptible to stupid combos and chaingrabs that only he, Falco and (to a lesser degree) Captain Falcon fell prey to. I also believe that he got more stun from being hit than others. Not to mention he's easy as crap to gimp/edgeguard.

    Character balance in relation to the top characters in Melee is better than the balance in Brawl. Not to mention, the engine in Melee actually makes approaching not as risky as Brawl's because you actually GET something out of our approach if successful.
    Super Smash Brothers- Apathy
    Blazblue- Litchi
    Street Fighter 4- Sakura
    Guilty Gear- Bridget
    Touhou- Marisa
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    The thing is, Metaknight is considered in a league of his own while the rest of the cast gets stomped by him seeing as he has the highest priority in the game, alot of very reliable attack strings, can gimp easily and is ungimpable. He has no bad stages and his lightweight is offset by his great momentum cancel and redonkulous recovery(so he's more like a mid-heavy?).

    Yeah. But it doesn't take much skill to do much as him. I think anyone who has played for more than 10 min can become a good Metaknight...Just because you don't need much know-how doesn't make Metaknight a bad character, just an easy one :P

    Hell, even Melee Fox had bad traits. While his fast falling speed allowed him to pressure better than most, it also made him susceptible to stupid combos and chaingrabs that only he, Falco and (to a lesser degree) Captain Falcon fell prey to. I also believe that he got more stun from being hit than others. Not to mention he's easy as crap to gimp/edgeguard.

    I've never seen C. Falcon get in very many chain grabs. Don't know if it was just the human factor of reaction times being off or what...but yeah, I didn't say that characters like Fox didn't have any weaknesses...Just that Brawl makes characters like Mr. G&W's weaknesses less noticeable.

    Character balance in relation to the top characters in Melee is better than the balance in Brawl. Not to mention, the engine in Melee actually makes approaching not as risky as Brawl's because you actually GET something out of our approach if successful.

    Well, that's only the top characters. You also need to include the lower tiers too :P. But, yeah, I see where your getting at. And approaches are always risky.

    So yeah. I also want to know why all the hatred for Brawl. It has to be more than just "Its not Melee." (Which is all I'm really seeing)
  • *P*L*U*R**P*L*U*R* Joined: Posts: 43
    i'm fairly certain that 80 percent of all the hate brawl gets is from people that never even gave the game a chance. they just looked at a bad video and decided the game was terrible. even mew2king said that brawl was fine as a competitive game. it's just not as good as melee.
    Super Smash Brothers- Apathy
    Blazblue- Litchi
    Street Fighter 4- Sakura
    Guilty Gear- Bridget
    Touhou- Marisa
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    getrapedbrawl.png

    lolwut
  • PercyPercy now on tour Joined: Posts: 207
    And the world isn't flat.

    Who knew?

    actually, it is.
    http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/

    Oh, and SSB64 owns shitty brawl hands down, melee is pretty damn good too.

    why? COOOMMBOOOOOOOS!
    online gay! need some offline love!
  • *P*L*U*R**P*L*U*R* Joined: Posts: 43
    getrapedbrawl.png

    lolwut

    I also recall him saying in one interview that brawl was fine as a competitive game but it just sucks compared to melee.

    Hell, how should I know. Jason is fickle as hell
    Super Smash Brothers- Apathy
    Blazblue- Litchi
    Street Fighter 4- Sakura
    Guilty Gear- Bridget
    Touhou- Marisa
  • cHaotixcHaotix Keep it classy. Joined: Posts: 757
    Fuck that, any game that punishes you randomly (tripping) is fucking stupid. There's a limit to your skill level just because of that retarded factor.

    I played both Melee and N64 Smash competitively (Used to play Isai regulalry in late 03-04) but Brawl is NOT a fighting game. Really pissed that I shelled out 250 bucks for that shitty game.

    People that suck at melee and 64 always try to find reasons to defend brawl. There's really no defense for an imbalanced game specifically tuned to be uncompetitive.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Fuck that, any game that punishes you randomly (tripping) is fucking stupid. There's a limit to your skill level just because of that retarded factor.

    I played both Melee and N64 Smash competitively (Used to play Isai regulalry in late 03-04) but Brawl is NOT a fighting game. Really pissed that I shelled out 250 bucks for that shitty game.

    People that suck at melee and 64 always try to find reasons to defend brawl. There's really no defense for an imbalanced game specifically tuned to be uncompetitive.

    If your tripping, short hop more often. From what I've seen, its replaced wavedashing (for the most part). Bitching about Brawl because you can't change how you play doesn't make it a shitty game, just you a shitty player.

    Melee is an awesome game, but complaining about games you don't like gets no one anywhere...and 250 bucks for any game (unless rare) is far too much...

    And that last section makes no sense. The only time anyone needs to defend Brawl is when someone who can't adjust from Melee bitches about it. And Brawl has turned to be quite competitive (and far more balanced than Melee no doubt).
  • keninblackkeninblack Joined: Posts: 3,480
    Wait were still talking about this?

    Stop playing brawl.

    Dust off your GC and actually play a game with skill. MELEE!
  • cHaotixcHaotix Keep it classy. Joined: Posts: 757
    If your tripping, short hop more often. From what I've seen, its replaced wavedashing (for the most part). Bitching about Brawl because you can't change how you play doesn't make it a shitty game, just you a shitty player.

    Melee is an awesome game, but complaining about games you don't like gets no one anywhere...and 250 bucks for any game (unless rare) is far too much...

    And that last section makes no sense. The only time anyone needs to defend Brawl is when someone who can't adjust from Melee bitches about it. And Brawl has turned to be quite competitive (and far more balanced than Melee no doubt).

    Why would I short hop when all I want to do is turn around and punish someone? Instead, I get punished randomly. And what if I'm playing with a character that has no killing aerials?

    What's the ratio for number of KO attacks for different characters? You're lying to yourself if you think it's balanced.

    I never said I was bad at brawl. I consider myself fairly good actually. But that isn't saying much because of the skill curve being almost non existent. It just is NOT a competitive game. That's all I said. Hell, even Sakurai stated that. It was tuned with the intent to be uncompetitive by the creators. What more proof do you need?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    It wasn't intended to be competitive, but it still is. And dwelling in the world of "what if..." doesn't really pose a question. It just leaves a situation that can happen to anyone. People short hop even without any killing aerials all the time.

    And the number of KO attacks shouldn't matter, just as long as there is an effective KO attack, which I believe everyone has.

    But anyway, just because Sakurai said it wasn't competitive doesn't make it any less competitive. I'm fairly positive that they never intended for people to discover wavedashing in Melee...

    And everyone, stop living in the past. Put away your GC and stop playing Melee.
  • keninblackkeninblack Joined: Posts: 3,480
    It wasn't intended to be competitive, but it still is. And dwelling in the world of "what if..." doesn't really pose a question. It just leaves a situation that can happen to anyone. People short hop even without any killing aerials all the time.

    And the number of KO attacks shouldn't matter, just as long as there is an effective KO attack, which I believe everyone has.

    But anyway, just because Sakurai said it wasn't competitive doesn't make it any less competitive. I'm fairly positive that they never intended for people to discover wavedashing in Melee...

    And everyone, stop living in the past. Put away your GC and stop playing Melee.

    Well if you want us to do that then what are we gonna play. I know myself and alot of people arent going anywhere near brawl.

    Lol fuck that.

    Dust off those GC's and play the good game.

    Hell the 64 version is 20 times better then whatever the fuck brawl was suppose to be.
  • *P*L*U*R**P*L*U*R* Joined: Posts: 43
    It wasn't intended to be competitive, but it still is. And dwelling in the world of "what if..." doesn't really pose a question. It just leaves a situation that can happen to anyone. People short hop even without any killing aerials all the time.

    And the number of KO attacks shouldn't matter, just as long as there is an effective KO attack, which I believe everyone has.

    But anyway, just because Sakurai said it wasn't competitive doesn't make it any less competitive. I'm fairly positive that they never intended for people to discover wavedashing in Melee...

    And everyone, stop living in the past. Put away your GC and stop playing Melee.
    soooo... blindly follow, right? is that what you're saying? we should just hop along with each iteration like the sf community does? *giggles*
    Super Smash Brothers- Apathy
    Blazblue- Litchi
    Street Fighter 4- Sakura
    Guilty Gear- Bridget
    Touhou- Marisa
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Well if you want us to do that then what are we gonna play. I know myself and alot of people arent going anywhere near brawl.

    Lol fuck that.

    Dust off those GC's and play the good game.

    Hell the 64 version is 20 times better then whatever the fuck brawl was suppose to be.

    It sounds like you've never even played the damned game.
    soooo... blindly follow, right? is that what you're saying? we should just hop along with each iteration like the sf community does? *giggles*

    People blindly follow all the time anyway. Much like how you form your opinion based on how someone else sees the game rather than your own experiences. But of course, you'll never admit it *giggles*
  • keninblackkeninblack Joined: Posts: 3,480
    It sounds like you've never even played the damned game.



    People blindly follow all the time anyway. Much like how you form your opinion based on how someone else sees the game rather than your own experiences. But of course, you'll never admit it *giggles*

    Lol I own the damn game.

    The game sucks.

    Also why would I hate a game when I havent even played it? That sounds silly.

    Eitherway, fuck brawl and play Melee.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Lol I own the damn game.

    The game sucks.

    Also why would I hate a game when I havent even played it? That sounds silly.

    Eitherway, fuck brawl and play Melee.

    Hmm. Well, you'd be surprised how many people hate games they've never even played before (Primarily due to mass opinions saying the game sucks...)

    But whatever. I'm getting a little bored of this. You all hate Brawl and worship Melee. I'm the only one here that likes Brawl (Hell, I'm a little hard pressed to find someone else here who hasn't insulted Brawl). So yeah. I still don't see what makes Brawl so bad. Take Melee out of the equation for a fucking second. Imagine if Brawl was the first and only game. What the hell makes it so awful?
  • FlugaFluga ???WHAT GOES HERE??? Joined: Posts: 351
    Hmm. Well, you'd be surprised how many people hate games they've never even played before (Primarily due to mass opinions saying the game sucks...)

    But whatever. I'm getting a little bored of this. You all hate Brawl and worship Melee. I'm the only one here that likes Brawl (Hell, I'm a little hard pressed to find someone else here who hasn't insulted Brawl). So yeah. I still don't see what makes Brawl so bad. Take Melee out of the equation for a fucking second. Imagine if Brawl was the first and only game. What the hell makes it so awful?

    You haven't been paying attention.

    Brawl is terrible because of the developers not giving a shit about the only crowd that kept Smash in the spotlight for 8 years. After that, they wanted to intentionally kill the games competitive scene,which ironically was the only scene keeping the game alive. Now Smash is ruled by nerds and idiots who think they know shit about fighting games when they don't.

    The only reason you play Brawl is because of money. Nothing more. Melee is the only legit game in the series, and Isai only plays SSB64 and rapes anyone who plays him at it.
  • redrapperredrapper I don't even use this name no more... Joined: Posts: 622
    You haven't been paying attention.

    Brawl is terrible because of the developers not giving a shit about the only crowd that kept Smash in the spotlight for 8 years. After that, they wanted to intentionally kill the games competitive scene,which ironically was the only scene keeping the game alive. Now Smash is ruled by nerds and idiots who think they know shit about fighting games when they don't.

    The only reason you play Brawl is because of money. Nothing more. Melee is the only legit game in the series, and Isai only plays SSB64 and rapes anyone who plays him at it.

    By the way. Soylent Green's made it into the water supply, and the Government is tracking your calls as well. Good shit. Paranoia. Nintendo hates you. Yeah guys...

    That's why they gave you your most requested characters and spent millions licensing ridiculous amounts of remixed music for you. Good shit.

    Hey guys... it's 1999. There's this new game called Third Strike out and it's trash. It's not as fast as ST, and it seems really turtle oriented with all the parry's and such. Plus Fireballs are garbage in this game. There are only three really amazing characters-- Chun, Yun, and Ken, and everybody else is kind of eh. In fact, Chun and Yun win EVERY tournament! I think Yun is a bit too cheap. Let's ban him guys? No really. I mean, EVERY tournament, everybody just uses Yun and it's free! What's the point of even trying to use the ideas we learned from Street Fighter II, He's Yun, and he's like Jesus... so there's no point. This game is so defense oriented I hate it! Somebody can just wait for you to do something and just Parry! It's Stupid as fuck! You know what? I have an idea.

    Yeah. It's a new day and age. Why don't we just go and take The STREET FIGHTER III engine, and just tweak the mechanics so it's exactly like ST! GENIUS! Let's just do that. Fuck parry's! I don't want to learn this new shit. Who want's to take the trouble of adapting to a new game. It's so slow and you need to use Normals. WHO NEEDS NORMAL?! I don't like new things! I'm 18! I want to be the same for the next 4 years playing this game!

    ALL EVERYBODY DOES IS TURTLE! I WANT TO GO BACK TO ST! WHERE I CAN COMPLAIN HOW I CAN'T GET PAST SRKs BECAUSE THEY TAKE AWAY A QUARTER OF MY LIFE, AND FIREBALLS RAPE MY POOR HONDA! JESUS CHRIST THIS IS BULLSHIT!


    On the real though? This is SRK. when it comes to fighting games. You either Adapt or you move on, simple as that. A lot of those complaints I listed were legitimate complaints for 3s when it first came out(even though it was 10x an improvement over 2I). I played Brawl, Played Melee, Played 3s, Played ST, and now I play IV, and my advice? If you like a game, play it... if you don't, then do yourself a favor and shut the fuck up, because no one wants to hear your stupid opinion on how you hate so called "Game that came out over a year ago, and gives my community a bad name, but really it has nothing to do with that and the reason everybody hates my community is people like me come over and act like Nintendo is communist russia, and they hate their people, and they want them all to suffer and die in cold scruffy bear skin hats with a hammer and sickle. We piss and moan about how brawl destroyed our community and get angry at the game and beat it like a redheaded stepchild for some of it's sloppy mechanics, failing to realize Melee at first had many sloppy mechanics when it was introduced back in 2001, until many people looked past those mechanics and enjoyed the game for what it was. We also fail to realize that we are just scapegoating, because most of us ignore the main tenants of a fighting game-- the idea behind adapting and mindgaming, and instead blame our losses on a character whose abilities we don't attempt to circumvent, but instead attempt to complain about, and ban because we can't get past him. "

    It pisses me off so much... because I really enjoy those two games and people just fucking ruined them for me. I expected a lot more from the Smash community and I kept seeing posts like that one. If you don't like the game, just kindly shut the fuck up and go about your business. We don't hate you because of it. We hate you because you come here every so often and post childish rants on how it's the game's fault for everything, when really, it's the way you're acting towards it.

    Jesus Christ people, it's 2009. Grow up, would you?

    P.S. Don't bother responding. Don't care.
    I don't know what to put here.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    lol @ saying how the SF community reacted the same as the smash scene did, and then saying "we hate you" because we do the same thing.

    whatevs

    and really, when's the last time you cared about what SF character got added over how competitive the character is? When's the last time you said to yourself "hey, the gameplay really sucks but at least the music is good!"

    hahah I know I've never said that.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    lol @ saying how the SF community reacted the same as the smash scene did, and then saying "we hate you" because we do the same thing.

    whatevs

    and really, when's the last time you cared about what SF character got added over how competitive the character is? When's the last time you said to yourself "hey, the gameplay really sucks but at least the music is good!"

    hahah I know I've never said that.

    Still think, your one of many...
  • redrapperredrapper I don't even use this name no more... Joined: Posts: 622
    lol @ saying how the SF community reacted the same as the smash scene did, and then saying "we hate you" because we do the same thing.

    whatevs

    and really, when's the last time you cared about what SF character got added over how competitive the character is? When's the last time you said to yourself "hey, the gameplay really sucks but at least the music is good!"

    hahah I know I've never said that.

    Street Fighter III was originally trashed when it came to arcades. The first one was eh at best, the second one was decent but broken, and the third was great. Needless to say, 3s had outstanding graphics and sound design-- but people hated it at first. Same reasons.

    -It was too slow.
    -The mechanics of Street Fighter were still TOTALLY different.
    -The roster was criticized for not having enough SFII favorites included.
    -People though the game system rewarded turtling as opposed to offensive rushdown.

    There were a lot more, but that's how it was. Look up "History of Street Fighter" articles anywhere and you'll see what I mean. Why the hell you think it took Capcom so long to create IV?

    3s of course, is sick. And we look at it now in those terms. But honestly, nearly every complaint lobbied against Brawl since it's release by the smash community(Save for maybe tripping, which is pretty stupid.), is an identical, if not similar complained lobbied against SFIII. The "This game isn't competative" or, "this game will destroy our community" arguments ALL sound really familiar.

    EDIT: Oh... and the reason I said that we hate you for that-- is because much of the Smash community attempts to diffuse shit by scapegoating Brawl. But even more than that, most of them complain about shit that's really their flaw as players, and yet they blame it on the game.

    The tier list in that game is Biased( and I say this as a former Sonic player, who's character was moved up eight spots to mid[which I wanted to happen, but not for the reasons it did]), and has somewhat to do with matchups, but more so how to please the community and stop people from complaining. People bitch and moan about Brawl's effectiveness in the scene, yet fail to adapt. They write out long diatribes about how Brawl ruined the community, and how Melee should have just been the only game to have ever existed.

    Oh, and Brawl +. That project is so fucking ridiculous words can't even describe. Not once did the SF community, ever in anger of the game mechanics of any game go "Hey guys, lets go and change the mechanics back to ST mechanics and make it MORE competitive... feel me?" Alpha 3 was played as Alpha 3(including infinite's), 3s was played as 3s, and God damn it-- IV is played as IV. The immense amount of complaining from the Smash community is immature, and it doesn't make them look very intelligent when it's going on. In a few years, maybe they'll realize this in retrospect, but if not, then their community won't really take a step forward again. Just saying.
    I don't know what to put here.
  • *P*L*U*R**P*L*U*R* Joined: Posts: 43
    It sounds like you've never even played the damned game.



    People blindly follow all the time anyway. Much like how you form your opinion based on how someone else sees the game rather than your own experiences. But of course, you'll never admit it *giggles*
    lol you know the funny part? i play both melee AND brawl. don't jump down my throat because of some retards that blindly follow what melee elitists say. i like brawl. i prefer melee over brawl. i prefer brawl plus over both of the damn games. i DON'T think mk should be banned even though he gets stupid sometimes. Also the brawl plus argument is frigging stupid. the main point of brawl plus was to a) add hitstun and b) make all characters viable. not to make it melee 2.0 as you people so lovingly call it. if you guys didn't have arcade roots, which kinda shits on any intentions of modifying the game, you probably wouldn't have as big of an issue with it. we have different roots. nintendo gave us the option of tweaking the settings to our liking and we took it a step farther by making brawl plus.
    Super Smash Brothers- Apathy
    Blazblue- Litchi
    Street Fighter 4- Sakura
    Guilty Gear- Bridget
    Touhou- Marisa
  • *P*L*U*R**P*L*U*R* Joined: Posts: 43
    also, to the people that use the quote of sakurai not intending brawl to be competitive. developer intent means nothing when the game ships. the game is at the mercy of the community, not the other way around. we're on some v for vendetta type shit.
    Super Smash Brothers- Apathy
    Blazblue- Litchi
    Street Fighter 4- Sakura
    Guilty Gear- Bridget
    Touhou- Marisa
  • FlugaFluga ???WHAT GOES HERE??? Joined: Posts: 351
    Street Fighter III was originally trashed when it came to arcades. The first one was eh at best, the second one was decent but broken, and the third was great. Needless to say, 3s had outstanding graphics and sound design-- but people hated it at first. Same reasons.

    -It was too slow.
    -The mechanics of Street Fighter were still TOTALLY different.
    -The roster was criticized for not having enough SFII favorites included.
    -People though the game system rewarded turtling as opposed to offensive rushdown.

    There were a lot more, but that's how it was. Look up "History of Street Fighter" articles anywhere and you'll see what I mean. Why the hell you think it took Capcom so long to create IV?

    3s of course, is sick. And we look at it now in those terms. But honestly, nearly every complaint lobbied against Brawl since it's release by the smash community(Save for maybe tripping, which is pretty stupid.), is an identical, if not similar complained lobbied against SFIII. The "This game isn't competative" or, "this game will destroy our community" arguments ALL sound really familiar.

    EDIT: Oh... and the reason I said that we hate you for that-- is because much of the Smash community attempts to diffuse shit by scapegoating Brawl. But even more than that, most of them complain about shit that's really their flaw as players, and yet they blame it on the game.

    The tier list in that game is Biased( and I say this as a former Sonic player, who's character was moved up eight spots to mid[which I wanted to happen, but not for the reasons it did]), and has somewhat to do with matchups, but more so how to please the community and stop people from complaining. People bitch and moan about Brawl's effectiveness in the scene, yet fail to adapt. They write out long diatribes about how Brawl ruined the community, and how Melee should have just been the only game to have ever existed.

    Oh, and Brawl +. That project is so fucking ridiculous words can't even describe. Not once did the SF community, ever in anger of the game mechanics of any game go "Hey guys, lets go and change the mechanics back to ST mechanics and make it MORE competitive... feel me?" Alpha 3 was played as Alpha 3(including infinite's), 3s was played as 3s, and God damn it-- IV is played as IV. The immense amount of complaining from the Smash community is immature, and it doesn't make them look very intelligent when it's going on. In a few years, maybe they'll realize this in retrospect, but if not, then their community won't really take a step forward again. Just saying.

    Except for the small part about Brawl taking very little skill to actually play compared to other simplistic fighters on the market. All you have to do in Brawl is learn Meta Knight and you will win. Its literally a matter of character choice over skill.
  • redrapperredrapper I don't even use this name no more... Joined: Posts: 622
    Except for the small part about Brawl taking very little skill to actually play compared to other simplistic fighters on the market. All you have to do in Brawl is learn Meta Knight and you will win. Its literally a matter of character choice over skill.

    I don't agree with that statement. Personal experience dictates as such. Honestly, the character I chose when I played the game had a 7-3 matchup with MK, and was considered low tier. I didn't have nearly as much of a problem with MK as I do with Chun in 3s playing Ryu.

    This is where I think the community splits. But at the same time, if you do agree with the aforementioned statement, just play melee and SHUT THE FUCK UP about Brawl. We hate your community because people don't just shut the fuck up and play their own game. The more you come here and complain about how you hate brawl, the more you're digging a whole for yourselves. The converse is the same. If you're coming here to defend Brawl and how "It is a competative game, and you're not like them..." shut the fuck up. Just play your game, and stop justifying your existence. You're digging a hole.

    If you like Melee better... good shit. Just go play it. But don't come around here talking shit on a game you don't like, because all you end up doing is making yourself look like a twelve year old GameFAQs member, who won't stop whining about stupid shit no one cares about.
    I don't know what to put here.
  • *P*L*U*R**P*L*U*R* Joined: Posts: 43
    We also fail to realize that we are just scapegoating, because most of us ignore the main tenants of a fighting game-- the idea behind adapting and mindgaming, and instead blame our losses on a character whose abilities we don't attempt to circumvent, but instead attempt to complain about, and ban because we can't get past him. "

    Just saw this. MK was never officially banned so I dunno where you're getting this from. Also, if I recall correctly, your community banned Akuma not only from ST but from HDR too. PLEASE don't give the smash community shit for having a DEBATE over whether to ban Mk or not when you guys banned him at evo even though alot of the community it seems didn't think that he should be banned.

    Way to set an example, guys. :rofl:
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I wholeheartedly agree with with a lot of what you have to say.

    But you have to realize that the community is HUGE, just split into a Brawl population and a melee population, albeit with people who play both in the middle. It's not about just shutting up and playing your own game, because that would split the community even more. The bitching you claim to be annoying, although you are every bit justified in thinking so, is really not as prevalent as you might think. For the most part on the forums, Brawl players stay in their boards and Melee players do the same.

    The tier list is not biased. Sonic was moved up with the discovery of Aerial Spin Charge + other techniques and the overall improvement of his matchups and tournament placings. Wario rose significantly as well, with players Fiction figuring out how to use him most effectively and placing very high in tournaments.

    I don't see anything wrong with Brawl+. It's simply an entirely community-driven project designed to make the game more fun and more balanced. There's nothing wrong with that if people decide to. In fact, I sense a spot of hypocrisy. You tell us to "shut the fuck up and play our own game" and yet you bitch about Brawl+? :|
  • *P*L*U*R**P*L*U*R* Joined: Posts: 43
    The tier list is not biased. Sonic was moved up with the discovery of Aerial Spin Charge + other techniques and the overall improvement of his matchups and tournament placings. Wario rose significantly as well, with players Fiction figuring out how to use him most effectively and placing very high in tournaments.

    Completely right. Smash's metagame advancement is so completely player-driven and time-dependent that you have to give the game time before you can consider character rankings, etc. I remember back when Link was higher on the Melee tier list because no one had really mastered L-canceling and Links OOS options are pretty silly against people that attack your sheild(lololol SPin attack!). Hell, that was back when Sheik was the best in the game too and people begged for her to be banned.
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  • redrapperredrapper I don't even use this name no more... Joined: Posts: 622
    Just saw this. MK was never officially banned so I dunno where you're getting this from. Also, if I recall correctly, your community banned Akuma not only from ST but from HDR too. PLEASE don't give the smash community shit for having a DEBATE over whether to ban Mk or not when you guys banned him at evo even though alot of the community it seems didn't think that he should be banned.

    Way to set an example, guys. :rofl:

    There's a very, very big difference. In ST-- Akuma can't be dizzied, he has an air fireball, half his moves are invincible, and he's DELIBERATELY made impossible to beat. In fact most of the times his hit box disappears.

    In HDR, I don't really agree with the Akuma ban... but then again, other people will give you reasons for it.

    The debate over MK I thought was stupid, because he's a character who's just good at a lot of things. He's not OP, or Broken. There are ways to beat him and everybody just see's fit to complain about how OP he is and how they can't get past any of his normal shit.

    And maybe I should rephrase this last part: Every couple of months, the board has a bunch of Smash players come here and explain to us how it's not their community's fault for the perception they have been given-- and they attempt to circumvent all of the blame on Brawl. THAT'S what I'm talking about. It's unbelievably childish.

    And if you want me to stop bitching about Brawl+, then fine. I was just illustrating for you why SRK has such a problem with the whole thing. I did this so that people would stop making these stupid threads, and talk about the mechanics of this game as opposed to "LOL, U PLY BRAWLZ! ROFL! GO PLY MELEE. KTHXBYE!"

    If you think it's hypocritical. Then fine. Keep posting about it. But You still sound like twelve year old's whining whenever you do it... and a good portion of SRK just get's annoyed whenever you do. I'd love to see Brawl AND Melee at an Evo in the future(in the PROPER way), but with the way this community acts on these boards... I'm not so sure it's going to happen.
    I don't know what to put here.
  • FlugaFluga ???WHAT GOES HERE??? Joined: Posts: 351
    I don't agree with that statement. Personal experience dictates as such. Honestly, the character I chose when I played the game had a 7-3 matchup with MK, and was considered low tier. I didn't have nearly as much of a problem with MK as I do with Chun in 3s playing Ryu.

    This is where I think the community splits. But at the same time, if you do agree with the aforementioned statement, just play melee and SHUT THE FUCK UP about Brawl. We hate your community because people don't just shut the fuck up and play their own game. The more you come here and complain about how you hate brawl, the more you're digging a whole for yourselves. The converse is the same. If you're coming here to defend Brawl and how "It is a competative game, and you're not like them..." shut the fuck up. Just play your game, and stop justifying your existence. You're digging a hole.

    If you like Melee better... good shit. Just go play it. But don't come around here talking shit on a game you don't like, because all you end up doing is making yourself look like a twelve year old GameFAQs member, who won't stop whining about stupid shit no one cares about.


    Smash is hated here simply because of the communities response to Evo 08 and the whole items rule set. If ANYTHING, the Smash community acted idiotic and they still refuse to accept their game for what it is and won't listen to any reasons why either. Its more immature than any FPS community out there.
    There's a very, very big difference. In ST-- Akuma can't be dizzied, he has an air fireball, half his moves are invincible, and he's DELIBERATELY made impossible to beat. In fact most of the times his hit box disappears.

    In HDR, I don't really agree with the Akuma ban... but then again, other people will give you reasons for it.

    The debate over MK I thought was stupid, because he's a character who's just good at a lot of things. He's not OP, or Broken. There are ways to beat him and everybody just see's fit to complain about how OP he is and how they can't get past any of his normal shit.

    And maybe I should rephrase this last part: Every couple of months, the board has a bunch of Smash players come here and explain to us how it's not their community's fault for the perception they have been given-- and they attempt to circumvent all of the blame on Brawl. THAT'S what I'm talking about. It's unbelievably childish.

    And if you want me to stop bitching about Brawl+, then fine. I was just illustrating for you why SRK has such a problem with the whole thing. I did this so that people would stop making these stupid threads, and talk about the mechanics of this game as opposed to "LOL, U PLY BRAWLZ! ROFL! GO PLY MELEE. KTHXBYE!"

    If you think it's hypocritical. Then fine. Keep posting about it. But You still sound like twelve year old's whining whenever you do it... and a good portion of SRK just get's annoyed whenever you do. I'd love to see Brawl AND Melee at an Evo in the future(in the PROPER way), but with the way this community acts on these boards... I'm not so sure it's going to happen.

    MK makes half the roster unplayable against him alone. He is broken, but not to the level of ST Akuma.

    Brawl+ is for people who refuse to play Melee, but want to play Brawl.

    Too bad Ness's Fair rapes everyone lol.
  • *P*L*U*R**P*L*U*R* Joined: Posts: 43
    Smash is hated here simply because of the communities response to Evo 08 and the whole items rule set. If ANYTHING, the Smash community acted idiotic and they still refuse to accept their game for what it is and won't listen to any reasons why either. Its more immature than any FPS community out there.



    MK makes half the roster unplayable against him alone. He is broken, but not to the level of ST Akuma.

    Brawl+ is for people who refuse to play Melee, but want to play Brawl.

    Too bad Ness's Fair rapes everyone lol.

    if we're going to generalize, brawl plus is for people that refuse to play brawl and want to play 'melee 2.0' with brawl characters. either way, it's wrong. brawl plus is a different game, just like brawl and melee. its a blend of elements from the previous 3 smash games into one awesome game.
    Super Smash Brothers- Apathy
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    Street Fighter 4- Sakura
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  • Sanji HimuraSanji Himura Joined: Posts: 582
    Smash is hated here simply because of the communities response to Evo 08 and the whole items rule set. If ANYTHING, the Smash community acted idiotic and they still refuse to accept their game for what it is and won't listen to any reasons why either. Its more immature than any FPS community out there.
    Evo wouldn't listen to SBR who is the "God" of the Smash community, and they acted childish over it. Is that why they got 200+ players showed up at EVO in 08? I would like to think that this is why the Smash scene now has an items rule set, when it wouldn't even have been considered two years ago. I completely agree with you, so don't get me wrong.


    MK makes half the roster unplayable against him alone. He is broken, but not to the level of ST Akuma.
    I would like to see that evidence, if you don't mind. I have already seen the tier lists and the match up formula, so don't go bringing those up again.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    The items ruleset is still in testing and as far as I know, has not had any major tournament exposure.

    MK is OP in the sense that he had neutral or favorable matchups with every character on any legal stage. He is definitely not broken, as he can be beaten, but he is obviously a far better character than any other.


    Whatever man, there are always gonna be idiots who do stupid things. A few weeks ago we had some guy post in the melee discussion forum about how we should all quit playing a shit game and buy a 360, play Halo or something. Laughs were had and the thread was promptly locked.
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