Capcom admits Brawl is a fighting game

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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Two things:Who cares if it's not on the SBR's official rule set. Tournament organizers are allowed to do what ever rules they want.
    Secondly, planking isn't hard to point out. They go to the ledge, and they just sit there. The only time it might get iffy is if someone is recovering, but even then you can tell if they are when they refuse to move from it. It's not hard to enforce, just say "Hey you, get off the edge and fight." If they want to make a big deal about it, a ref says "OK, you lost the tournament. GG."

    Except that ban isn't discrete, it doesn't draw a clear line between what is and is not banworthy behavior.


    What makes planking banworthy anyway? Gliding under the stage is one thing, but staying on the ledge and letting your opponent approach, what's the issue?
  • SmashchuSmashchu Joined: Posts: 124
    Except that ban isn't discrete, it doesn't draw a clear line between what is and is not banworthy behavior.
    Doesn't matter, tournament runner gets to decide. Whether or not it's ban worthy is really a matter of opinion.
    What makes planking banworthy anyway? Gliding under the stage is one thing, but staying on the ledge and letting your opponent approach, what's the issue?

    Because it gives them a unfair tactical position. Really, it's too easy to go to the ledge and hang there and wait to attack. It's one thing if the opponent could easily take it, but you have temp. invincibility.

    Oh, and as an aside, one flaw of the competitive Brawl community is the character bias. It tends to happen that the characters who are high stay high because their game developers at a faster rate then the lower guys. i see a tendency to look only at the top of the tier list and have only those characters advance. I see it in Melee too as the bottom grew and grew. Maybe someone can fill me in on how other fighting game communities develop their character games.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Doesn't matter, tournament runner gets to decide. Whether or not it's ban worthy is really a matter of opinion. [/quote[


    There's a very nice criteria that Sirlin created for just that occassion. Discrete, enforcable, and warranted.


    Because it gives them a unfair tactical position. Really, it's too easy to go to the ledge and hang there and wait to attack. It's one thing if the opponent could easily take it, but you have temp. invincibility.

    "Unfair", I'm sorry, but we're competitive communities, we're SUPPOSED to abuse game mechanics.


    "Unfair" is not a reason to remove something, it has to be legitimately broken, in other words, be able to totally dominate the metagame.


    As of now, I see no proof that planking gives mk 80-20 MUs with 90% of the cast or anything similarly broken.


    If you're banning for less, why? That's the kind of thinking that results in totally random bans, instead of allowing the metagame to grow by gradually finding what counters what and how.


    Honestly, check out playing to win, it has a great section on what is justified to ban.
  • SmashchuSmashchu Joined: Posts: 124
    There's a very nice criteria that Sirlin created for just that occassion. Discrete, enforcable, and warranted.
    Discrete-yes, as most players only use the ledge to get back, or to attack others when they are off the stage (such as in Melee). Planking is when you keep doing it to gain the advantage
    Enforcable-Yes.
    Warrantable-Matter of opinion.
    "Unfair", I'm sorry, but we're competitive communities, we're SUPPOSED to abuse game mechanics.
    Since when. There is no great rule book on how to do these.

    I could probably give 1001 examples, but I don't have the time or patience for that kind of research.
    "Unfair" is not a reason to remove something, it has to be legitimately broken, in other words, be able to totally dominate the metagame.
    Can't "unfair" and broken be used interchainable. Isn't broken something that gives someone a great advantage, meaning it's unfair for those who don't use it.
    If you're banning for less, why? That's the kind of thinking that results in totally random bans, instead of allowing the metagame to grow by gradually finding what counters what and how.
    Items are banned. Stages are banned. Why is this somehow exempt?
  • KumaOsoKumaOso Trust Your Instincts Joined: Posts: 3,752
    Since when. There is no great rule book on how to do these.

    I could probably give 1001 examples, but I don't have the time or patience for that kind of research.
    It's kind of the accepted practice. The point of anything competitive is to win after all. It's like using a certain interpretation of the law in your favor.

    I know you won't bother looking anyway outside of VGChartz for sales information in order to create a remote conclusion.
    Can't "unfair" and broken be used interchainable. Isn't broken something that gives someone a great advantage, meaning it's unfair for those who don't use it.
    Sort of, but it's not black and white in these contexts. If it's broken, it can't be countered. Stuff like chaingrabs are not broken because they can be avoided or countered.
    Items are banned. Stages are banned. Why is this somehow exempt?
    Those are banned in order to make match outcomes based more on skill than anything like strategically using randomly placed items or using stage hazards to win.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Discrete-yes, as most players only use the ledge to get back, or to attack others when they are off the stage (such as in Melee). Planking is when you keep doing it to gain the advantage
    Enforcable-Yes.
    Warrantable-Matter of opinion.


    I'll deal with discrete.


    What ACTUAL ACTION IS BANNED? Where do you draw the line between planking and not planking? "Doing it to gain the advantage" doesn't specify a specific action so the distinction is fundamentally arbitrary.


    Which essentially means, when you go to enforceability that it's all judge's decision, so players have no idea what is or is not banned.



    "Planking is banned" fails on the basis of discrete and enforceable (and there's no proof it's warranted), try again.

    Since when. There is no great rule book on how to do these.

    I could probably give 1001 examples, but I don't have the time or patience for that kind of research.

    ...

    You're not a competitive gamer, you lack the "play to win" attitude.


    The fundamental idea behind competitive gaming is that you do anything to increases your chances to win as long as it does not violate the rules.


    Why, because quite frankly, there will be people who will do the "cheap stuff". and if it doesn't violate the rules, it just breeds ill feelings. At the same time, that's what advances the metagame, so why should be be ostracizing these people? Since competitive gaming is built around the idea of picking the best player, we hold them up as examples of what we should be doing.


    That's how people here play and think about competition, if that's not what you're interested in, then let me ask you seriously, why are you here? Maybe smashboards, maybe, but SRK, this probably feels like a cesspool of all you hate about gaming.


    Can't "unfair" and broken be used interchainable. Isn't broken something that gives someone a great advantage, meaning it's unfair for those who don't use it.

    Not really, unfair is a subjective statement unless it's referencing to the rules of the competition. If used subjectively (since there's no universal ban, I would assume that this is how you're using it), then it essentially means that a tactic violates your personal sense of ethics.

    If used objectively, then it means it violates the rules of the competition, which is a reasonable use.


    Broken on the other hand, means that it objectively over-centralizes the metagame. In other words, it creates a situation where independant of everything else, only a very select few tactics/ characters are viable.

    Items are banned. Stages are banned. Why is this somehow exempt?

    Items aren't banned, if an item appears I can pick it up any time. Characters that generate items can still generate them.


    What you're talking about is a blatant mis-use of language, the only way that items are "banned" is if giant fire-flower high-gravity stamina matches are banned, and no items matches are banned in all-brawl and ISP.


    They're not banned, a competitive standard was chosen that excludes them, one standard is chosen, it's required for a competitive community to exist. Saying that another arbitrary standard is banned is a charge that could be leveled against any standard and is meaningless.



    As for stages, it's a matter of proven degrees. Walk-off stages, DDD 0-deaths the majority of the cast there off a single grab. Hyrule temple has circle camping, so only sonic is viable. I could go on, but you get my point, stages are easy to ban, discrete, and the banned ones generally have very obvious reasons.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    actually "planking" is banned in a sense.

    the ledgegrab limit rule still applies, it's just absurdly easy to bypass this by getting just under the limit, which is not all that difficult for a character with 5 jumps, a recovery which can't be interrupted, and unbeatable aerial priority.

    Right now, the community is looking to ban "scrooging," or gliding under the stage. This is another tactic that Metaknight can employ to stall or "play defensively" as some put it.

    I think that this is all bullshit and MK should be banned already instead of just placing more and more rules aimed right at him.
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    arrow of god sounds like a scrub.
    8tROOXi.png
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    lol

    the scrub mentality

    maybe so

    but it's either you ban MK slowly by gradually limiting what he's best at (stalling, timing out) or quickly by just banning him outright

    I vote that we should save some time.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Evo wouldn't listen to SBR who is the "God" of the Smash community, and they acted childish over it. Is that why they got 200+ players showed up at EVO in 08? I would like to think that this is why the Smash scene now has an items rule set, when it wouldn't even have been considered two years ago. I completely agree with you, so don't get me wrong.

    First off, I was for items at the start of the brawl community, but after plenty of tournaments using items were tested, we all pretty much agreed on abandoning items once again. Items were tested in melee for tourney play, and then dropped. Items were tested in Smash 64 for tourney play and dropped. The same thing that was acceptable previously for reasons to ban items applied exactly the same way in the 3rd game. I mean Akuma being banned in HD-Remix seemed a little premature to many people, but it was obviously based in logic, and the most important members of the Street Fighter competitive community agreed nearly unanimously to ban him. Isn't that what matters, that the respective fighting game community, not the randoms, but the people who play in tournaments, win in tournaments, are sponsored, run the tournaments, start and maintain the competitive websites, are big names get a tournament that has rules that aren't completely contradictory to the things that they have helped establish.

    We heard goofy terminology like "stage control" to try and suggest that items were not all that random in deciding who wins. All you have to do is really watch the finals match of Evo 2k8 to realize how gamebreaking they can be.

    We all did not act childish over it. There have been plenty of tournaments for brawl that have had a much higher turnout than Evo2k8, too many to count on my fingers, so it's unimportant how many people went, in fact it will prove our point. The fact is, not many big names went to Evo2k8, no motivation. I mean Evo is THE fighting game tournament. The fact that the biggest baddest leaders of this community run it, and they are outspoken against smash's legitimacy as a fighting game and legitimacy as being competitive, shows the obvious bias. It was obvious to all of us that they really just wanted to alienate the community. They ran a wifi online tourney with WAY jacked up rules as a testrun of their ruleset, despite the fact that we had 4-5 tournaments a week for a long time already as OUR testrun for what works.

    It was obvious to us that they ran the tournament to make a mockery of smash, they had no intention of working together with our ruleset. I mean the MLG ruleset was used in melee in Evo2k7, why weren't they doing items then? And look how long it took them to pick up smash as a game for Evo, YEARS, despite it having a very successful competitive circuit, sponsors, etc... Heck more people showed up for Melee in 2k7 than almost every other game, and yet they still didn't like smash as a fighting game, still talked trash about it, still said it wasn't competitive, and still said it was a kids game, it's a party game, etc...

    This whole thing is just obvious bias being displayed by the top ranking members of the street fighter community and their power over rules/games/etc... at Evo.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    First off, I was for items at the start of the brawl community, but after plenty of tournaments using items were tested, we all pretty much agreed on abandoning items once again. Items were tested in melee for tourney play, and then dropped. Items were tested in Smash 64 for tourney play and dropped. The same thing that was acceptable previously for reasons to ban items applied exactly the same way in the 3rd game. I mean Akuma being banned in HD-Remix seemed a little premature to many people, but it was obviously based in logic, and the most important members of the Street Fighter competitive community agreed nearly unanimously to ban him. Isn't that what matters, that the respective fighting game community, not the randoms, but the people who play in tournaments, win in tournaments, are sponsored, run the tournaments, start and maintain the competitive websites, are big names get a tournament that has rules that aren't completely contradictory to the things that they have helped establish.

    We heard goofy terminology like "stage control" to try and suggest that items were not all that random in deciding who wins. All you have to do is really watch the finals match of Evo 2k8 to realize how gamebreaking they can be.

    We all did not act childish over it. There have been plenty of tournaments for brawl that have had a much higher turnout than Evo2k8, too many to count on my fingers, so it's unimportant how many people went, in fact it will prove our point. The fact is, not many big names went to Evo2k8, no motivation. I mean Evo is THE fighting game tournament. The fact that the biggest baddest leaders of this community run it, and they are outspoken against smash's legitimacy as a fighting game and legitimacy as being competitive, shows the obvious bias. It was obvious to all of us that they really just wanted to alienate the community. They ran a wifi online tourney with WAY jacked up rules as a testrun of their ruleset, despite the fact that we had 4-5 tournaments a week for a long time already as OUR testrun for what works.

    It was obvious to us that they ran the tournament to make a mockery of smash, they had no intention of working together with our ruleset. I mean the MLG ruleset was used in melee in Evo2k7, why weren't they doing items then? And look how long it took them to pick up smash as a game for Evo, YEARS, despite it having a very successful competitive circuit, sponsors, etc... Heck more people showed up for Melee in 2k7 than almost every other game, and yet they still didn't like smash as a fighting game, still talked trash about it, still said it wasn't competitive, and still said it was a kids game, it's a party game, etc...

    This whole thing is just obvious bias being displayed by the top ranking members of the street fighter community and their power over rules/games/etc... at Evo.

    Holy shit. This is the most correct thing I have ever read. Ever. Carry on good sir, carry on.
  • bigdaddy4bigdaddy4 im legit Joined: Posts: 321
    when you have to make a bunch of rules to limit one characters abilities he should be banned imo but who cares brawl is such a joke
  • bigdaddy4bigdaddy4 im legit Joined: Posts: 321
    lol

    the scrub mentality

    maybe so

    but it's either you ban MK slowly by gradually limiting what he's best at (stalling, timing out) or quickly by just banning him outright

    I vote that we should save some time.

    previous comment was meant for this
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    when you have to make a bunch of rules to limit one characters abilities he should be banned imo but who cares brawl is such a joke

    People that say brawl is a joke are usually jealous of it's tournament turnout in person so many times. We have so many tournaments with over 300 entrants for brawl and for melee, yet SRK still plays down super smash like it's just a fad, or it's not competitive, or it's a joke in general.
  • Violent By DesignViolent By Design Joined: Posts: 318
    I don't really see what relevance Capcom has in whether Brawl is a fighting game. Brawl isn't anything like other Fighters, and the entire point of a genre is to group a bunch of video games by similarities. Super Smash hardly has any similarities with other 2D fighters.
  • SmashchuSmashchu Joined: Posts: 124
    First off, I was for items at the start of the brawl community, but after plenty of tournaments using items were tested, we all pretty much agreed on abandoning items once again. Items were tested in melee for tourney play, and then dropped. Items were tested in Smash 64 for tourney play and dropped. The same thing that was acceptable previously for reasons to ban items applied exactly the same way in the 3rd game. I mean Akuma being banned in HD-Remix seemed a little premature to many people, but it was obviously based in logic, and the most important members of the Street Fighter competitive community agreed nearly unanimously to ban him. Isn't that what matters, that the respective fighting game community, not the randoms, but the people who play in tournaments, win in tournaments, are sponsored, run the tournaments, start and maintain the competitive websites, are big names get a tournament that has rules that aren't completely contradictory to the things that they have helped establish.
    What tournaments? Items were banned right on the spot. This was a major criticism from EVO that the Brawl community was using the same rules from Melee despite it was a different game. The equivilant of this would be banning Akuma in SF3 and SF4 because, well, he's Akuma.

    We heard goofy terminology like "stage control" to try and suggest that items were not all that random in deciding who wins. All you have to do is really watch the finals match of Evo 2k8 to realize how gamebreaking they can be.
    Except it proves that items require skill.

    Ken was good, but he lost because he didn't know how to use the items. He got a Smash Ball a lot and CPU just rolling dodged behind him. That's pretty sad on Ken's part. The problem is the Brawl community has a predetermination about items so no matter how well EVO 08 went, it will always be bad in their eyes. Watch with a new train of thought and you'll see what I mean.
    We all did not act childish over it. There have been plenty of tournaments for brawl that have had a much higher turnout than Evo2k8, too many to count on my fingers, so it's unimportant how many people went, in fact it will prove our point. The fact is, not many big names went to Evo2k8, no motivation. I mean Evo is THE fighting game tournament. The fact that the biggest baddest leaders of this community run it, and they are outspoken against smash's legitimacy as a fighting game and legitimacy as being competitive, shows the obvious bias. It was obvious to all of us that they really just wanted to alienate the community. They ran a wifi online tourney with WAY jacked up rules as a testrun of their ruleset, despite the fact that we had 4-5 tournaments a week for a long time already as OUR testrun for what works.
    When did you NOT act childish about it.

    Also, lol at bold.
    It was obvious to us that they ran the tournament to make a mockery of smash, they had no intention of working together with our ruleset. I mean the MLG ruleset was used in melee in Evo2k7, why weren't they doing items then? And look how long it took them to pick up smash as a game for Evo, YEARS, despite it having a very successful competitive circuit, sponsors, etc... Heck more people showed up for Melee in 2k7 than almost every other game, and yet they still didn't like smash as a fighting game, still talked trash about it, still said it wasn't competitive, and still said it was a kids game, it's a party game, etc...
    Yes, because they want to destroy the Smash Brothers competitive community (although I wish they would). Makes perfect sense. It can't be that all the information they gave EVO was just examples of what might happen rather then hard facts and actual tournament results. OH no, it must be because they hate Smash.
  • KumaOsoKumaOso Trust Your Instincts Joined: Posts: 3,752
    Yes, because they want to destroy the Smash Brothers competitive community (although I wish they would). Makes perfect sense. It can't be that all the information they gave EVO was just examples of what might happen rather then hard facts and actual tournament results. OH no, it must be because they hate Smash.
    We all know you despise it, but why?
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  • orochizoolanderorochizoolander 2LANDER! Joined: Posts: 15,634
    All smash games are fighters by definition because fighting isn't just a component of the game it is the game and all the mechanics are built around the concept of fighting, just because the smash games don't feature traditional ko's and aren't as deep as other fighters doesn't make them any less of a fighter in and of themselves. Capcom admitting it's a fighter is like admitting neon green is green.

    I haven't played any smash game in at least a year but it looks like items are still banned lol, when will smash players learn to stop being scrubs and start playing to win?
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  • FlugaFluga ???WHAT GOES HERE??? Joined: Posts: 357
    All smash games are fighters by definition because fighting isn't just a component of the game it is the game and all the mechanics are built around the concept of fighting, just because the smash games don't feature traditional ko's and aren't as deep as other fighters doesn't make them any less of a fighter in and of themselves. Capcom admitting it's a fighter is like admitting neon green is green.

    I haven't played any smash game in at least a year but it looks like items are still banned lol, when will smash players learn to stop being scrubs and start playing to win?

    Never. They will never reverse their decision on items. Especially if MLG is involved.

    As soon as I played with items, it immediately made the game 10x better than without items.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    wow never knew of this..

    surprising

    i lol'd.
  • AYO?!AYO?! Strong Style Hips. Joined: Posts: 19,032
    Never. They will never reverse their decision on items. Especially if MLG is involved.

    As soon as I played with items, it immediately made the game 10x better than without items.

    Since this was necro'd anyways: I find that Brawl is a hell of a lot better with items, I originally played no items thinking this was Melee and it'd be decent, but Brawl is pretty fucking stale unless you spice it up with the items, hell of a lot more fun as well.
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  • iQuickiQuick FADC to Dashboard Joined: Posts: 885
    I'm sort of in a toss up.

    I kind of like them both. I play brawl with my friends that couldn't keep up with me in melee. (who can't keep up in brawl either...) But it's less of a hood stomp when we play brawl.
  • Purple MantisPurple Mantis Welcome to my world Joined: Posts: 17
    Of course Brawl is a fighting game, why wouldn't it be?
  • GriffardGriffard bulbasaur is so cash Joined: Posts: 689
    I think it's accepted that Brawl is a less technical fighter than Melee, but still a legitimate one. I think it's less skill based, but only slightly. The removal of advanced mechanics like WDing didn't make it a strictly worse game imo.
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  • Purple MantisPurple Mantis Welcome to my world Joined: Posts: 17



    so much for brawl sucking
  • M.D.M.D. digs older chicks Joined: Posts: 4,188
    see what happens when you don't play with items?
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  • Jonas_Jonas_ Joined: Posts: 35



    so much for brawl sucking
    see what happens when you don't play with items?

    Pepito made the mistake of not taking the ledge. That is actually possible to do in Melee, unlike in Brawl where Meta Knight can just edge camp all day. Melee is not overrun by Jigglypuffs that would just win by edgecamping if it wasn't for some arbitrary, non-enforcable rule.
    Also, Tero didn't win that tournament. Pepito beat him in game 3, and he got kicked out of losers' bracket pretty early.

    Items create way more situations that are rewarding to the luckiest player and not necessarily the best. It's great that you guys think items are fun to play with, but fairness is more important than fun in a competetive inviroment.
    That doesn't mean tournament players don't have fun playing this game. If nobody had fun playing without items, there wouldn't be Smash tournaments.
  • EPFEPF Joined: Posts: 5



    so much for brawl sucking

    If only you knew ho the match up went.

    The match of Fox vs Jiggz is touch and go because up throw > Rest kills Fox almost instantly.

    Fox, while being a nimble character, cannot land any of his bread and butter due to mobility in the air and freakishly good DI. If Fox misses a tech on a platform due to up throw (Or assuming that the jiggz is fast enough to read said tech), that's a free stock.

    That and the Jiggz was being smart and baited Fox off the edge. Since Fox lost a stock there really wasn't much that he could do. It's not as if the player can do this in ANY match up, this one in particular was just in Jiggz favor. He would NEVER be able to do that to a character like Marth, who has tilts to match her aerials and amazing edge pokes like is jab, D-tilt, Neutral B and even his counter.

    As for Brawl, it sucks. Meta Knight is too dominant, and the community is way to over enthusiastic about MAKING the game balanced, or making it similar to Melee when they could just play Melee.



    Brawl isn't a fighting game, but a party game with fighting aesthetics.
  • GriffardGriffard bulbasaur is so cash Joined: Posts: 689
    Project M looks sweet, thanks for the link. I stopped going to SB a WHILE ago.
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  • EPsilon933EPsilon933 Joined: Posts: 176
    the community is way to over enthusiastic about MAKING the game balanced, or making it similar to Melee when they could just play Melee.



    Brawl isn't a fighting game, but a party game with fighting aesthetics.

    Actually, that's incorrect. When you ask barlw players to play with heavy gravity and reflect status, and ban MetaKnight, they always respond with something along the lines of "stop trying to make it into Melee." Also, barlw players are too easily intimidated to play Melee because of the tech skill in Melee.

    When you ask Melee players about legal stages, they try to ban stuff that favors characters too heavily (Mute City, Corneria), and yet when you offer to play PAL (a better balanced version of Melee) in America, they refuse and some will insult you.

    barlw is still a fighting game, it's just really bad.
  • Sensei RouzuSensei Rouzu Hero for fun Joined: Posts: 3,933
    I'm both okay with items and no items.

    In competition I think you should try to eliminate randomness as best as you can. Some items just seem boring and pointless like smoke bombs, and springs.
    Tournaments could alternate between item and no item tournaments.

    For item tournaments I think the following should be excluded.

    Bomb-ombs
    Motion sensor
    Maximum Tomato
    Heart Container
    smoke bomb (boring item and it seems pretty useless)
    spring(I just don't like it)
    poison mushroom
    mushroom
    Trophy
    pokeball
    star
    deku nut


    For most of these my reasons to seclude them include eliminating random instances that could weaken or strengthen a player. I know a lot do not like comeback mechanics and most of these items can reward players for playing poorly. Ex: you beat the crap out of a player dishing him out to a damage percentage of 110%. When you knock him across the screen a heart container just so happens to appear close to him, so when he gets back up he's down to 10%, WTF. Also it feels pretty stupid if you're down to 1 stock with your opponent and unknowingly while you're fighting a bomb-omb or Deku nut is on the opposite side of the stage. You get almost get knocked out of the stage, but when you get up there's a deku nut or bomb about to explode in your face.


    As far as stages I think all of them are fair game. All of the stages with hazards give you a signal when the hazard is coming or they're clearly visible, except for Spear Pillar, so that's the only one that should be excluded. On second thought I would exclude Hanenbow and the DK stages too, because the DK stage is bad map design and Hanenbow is just plain boring.

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  • Dr ButlerDr Butler Butler Doctor Joined: Posts: 183
    I respectfully disagree. Smash is a totally different animal. Fighting game strategy focuses on timing and psyche outs. Smash is much more focused on zoning. Fighters limit what you can do at certain times (gauges, supers, EX), but ultimately have more depth to their movesets, whereas Smash gives you the freedom to perform virtually everything as a free-action, but is ultimately more limited in each attacks overall function. It's more of a platformer, of maybe a sub-genre, like platformer-fighter.

    Fighting games aren't games about fighting; the genre refers to the mechanics that make the game work, and how you play. Saying 'derderrrr Smash has fighting = fighting game' is like saying that GTA is an FPS because it has guns, and gratuitous use of the color brown.
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  • 3SJ3SJ Vote Gary Johnson for The President of the United States Joined: Posts: 346
    Yeah there is no fighting in smash bros right? Is it a video game? Nahh not a video game either. Capcom is wrong.
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  • -BEES--BEES- Joined: Posts: 14
    *P*L*U*R* wrote:
    i'm fairly certain that 80 percent of all the hate brawl gets is from people that never even gave the game a chance. they just looked at a bad video and decided the game was terrible. even mew2king said that brawl was fine as a competitive game. it's just not as good as melee.

    It's true that 80% of the hate is from people that never gave the game a chance. The other 20% is perfectly legitimate disappointment with the game though, from people who not only gave the game a chance, but even people who started with Brawl and moved on to Melee and the hacks so they could do awesome combos like they saw in all the videos that inspired them.
  • Hello?Hello? VICTORY POTATO CHIP! Joined: Posts: 55
    Brawl+ made the game a lot better.
    Less stupid stuff more fun.
    I just think it's silly when people say "Just go play melee." Yeah keep playing that game for another +10 years and never move onto the next one or the ones after Brawl. I enjoy a bigger character roster, texture/vertex hacks, psa's, music and level hacks.
    I guess I just like nice things.
  • specsspecs Excuse me, princess! Joined: Posts: 6,380 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Fighting game or not, Brawl is a terrible game.
    Carlos and Dave Anime Rave is the BEST damn anime review show on the internet! AnimeRave.xyz
  • factory9factory9 ARCANA HEARTO TWEEEE Joined: Posts: 985
    Fighting game or not, Brawl is a terrible game.
    This. Like a billion times this.

    Brawl is probably the only fighting game I like even less than SF4. The only thing that it's good for are the mods that are coming out for it (like Project M get fucking hype)


    so much for brawl sucking


    Hey guys SF sucks a big fat dick.

    So does logic.
  • urkangijordiurkangijordi Spelled UrkAngiJordi Joined: Posts: 90
    If only smash could be played on a fight stick. I hate pads, and particularly Gamecube pads. Second most hated pad next to the classic NES pads.
    My username is actually spelled UrkAngiJordi (Pronounced Urk-Angee-Jordee)
    Ken and Mai are my favorite characters.
    Favorite fighting game franchises. Street Fighter, Virtua Fighter, Capcom VS SNK 2
  • factory9factory9 ARCANA HEARTO TWEEEE Joined: Posts: 985
    If only smash could be played on a fight stick. I hate pads, and particularly Gamecube pads. Second most hated pad next to the classic NES pads.

    Aw, son, you make me sad.

    The Gamecube controller was one of my favorite controllers ever. I got most multiconsole games for the Gamecube just because of the controllers.

    I'm pretty sure the MC Cthulu has some layout for playing Smash, but I don't really know how that is.
  • CryohCryoh Rock Shock Thunderous Beat Joined: Posts: 9,639
    Nah, wouldn't work. Stick would need analog inputs for the tilt and smash attacks.
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