Capcom admits Brawl is a fighting game

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Comments

  • AYO?!AYO?! Strong Style Hips. Joined: Posts: 19,032
    Never. They will never reverse their decision on items. Especially if MLG is involved.

    As soon as I played with items, it immediately made the game 10x better than without items.

    Since this was necro'd anyways: I find that Brawl is a hell of a lot better with items, I originally played no items thinking this was Melee and it'd be decent, but Brawl is pretty fucking stale unless you spice it up with the items, hell of a lot more fun as well.
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  • iQuickiQuick FADC to Dashboard Joined: Posts: 885
    I'm sort of in a toss up.

    I kind of like them both. I play brawl with my friends that couldn't keep up with me in melee. (who can't keep up in brawl either...) But it's less of a hood stomp when we play brawl.
  • Purple MantisPurple Mantis Welcome to my world Joined: Posts: 17
    Of course Brawl is a fighting game, why wouldn't it be?
  • GriffardGriffard bulbasaur is so cash Joined: Posts: 689
    I think it's accepted that Brawl is a less technical fighter than Melee, but still a legitimate one. I think it's less skill based, but only slightly. The removal of advanced mechanics like WDing didn't make it a strictly worse game imo.
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  • Purple MantisPurple Mantis Welcome to my world Joined: Posts: 17



    so much for brawl sucking
  • M.D.M.D. digs older chicks Joined: Posts: 4,188
    see what happens when you don't play with items?
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  • Jonas_Jonas_ Joined: Posts: 35



    so much for brawl sucking
    see what happens when you don't play with items?

    Pepito made the mistake of not taking the ledge. That is actually possible to do in Melee, unlike in Brawl where Meta Knight can just edge camp all day. Melee is not overrun by Jigglypuffs that would just win by edgecamping if it wasn't for some arbitrary, non-enforcable rule.
    Also, Tero didn't win that tournament. Pepito beat him in game 3, and he got kicked out of losers' bracket pretty early.

    Items create way more situations that are rewarding to the luckiest player and not necessarily the best. It's great that you guys think items are fun to play with, but fairness is more important than fun in a competetive inviroment.
    That doesn't mean tournament players don't have fun playing this game. If nobody had fun playing without items, there wouldn't be Smash tournaments.
  • EPFEPF Joined: Posts: 5



    so much for brawl sucking

    If only you knew ho the match up went.

    The match of Fox vs Jiggz is touch and go because up throw > Rest kills Fox almost instantly.

    Fox, while being a nimble character, cannot land any of his bread and butter due to mobility in the air and freakishly good DI. If Fox misses a tech on a platform due to up throw (Or assuming that the jiggz is fast enough to read said tech), that's a free stock.

    That and the Jiggz was being smart and baited Fox off the edge. Since Fox lost a stock there really wasn't much that he could do. It's not as if the player can do this in ANY match up, this one in particular was just in Jiggz favor. He would NEVER be able to do that to a character like Marth, who has tilts to match her aerials and amazing edge pokes like is jab, D-tilt, Neutral B and even his counter.

    As for Brawl, it sucks. Meta Knight is too dominant, and the community is way to over enthusiastic about MAKING the game balanced, or making it similar to Melee when they could just play Melee.



    Brawl isn't a fighting game, but a party game with fighting aesthetics.
  • GriffardGriffard bulbasaur is so cash Joined: Posts: 689
    Project M looks sweet, thanks for the link. I stopped going to SB a WHILE ago.
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  • EPsilon933EPsilon933 Joined: Posts: 176
    the community is way to over enthusiastic about MAKING the game balanced, or making it similar to Melee when they could just play Melee.



    Brawl isn't a fighting game, but a party game with fighting aesthetics.

    Actually, that's incorrect. When you ask barlw players to play with heavy gravity and reflect status, and ban MetaKnight, they always respond with something along the lines of "stop trying to make it into Melee." Also, barlw players are too easily intimidated to play Melee because of the tech skill in Melee.

    When you ask Melee players about legal stages, they try to ban stuff that favors characters too heavily (Mute City, Corneria), and yet when you offer to play PAL (a better balanced version of Melee) in America, they refuse and some will insult you.

    barlw is still a fighting game, it's just really bad.
  • Sensei RouzuSensei Rouzu Hero for fun Joined: Posts: 3,933
    I'm both okay with items and no items.

    In competition I think you should try to eliminate randomness as best as you can. Some items just seem boring and pointless like smoke bombs, and springs.
    Tournaments could alternate between item and no item tournaments.

    For item tournaments I think the following should be excluded.

    Bomb-ombs
    Motion sensor
    Maximum Tomato
    Heart Container
    smoke bomb (boring item and it seems pretty useless)
    spring(I just don't like it)
    poison mushroom
    mushroom
    Trophy
    pokeball
    star
    deku nut


    For most of these my reasons to seclude them include eliminating random instances that could weaken or strengthen a player. I know a lot do not like comeback mechanics and most of these items can reward players for playing poorly. Ex: you beat the crap out of a player dishing him out to a damage percentage of 110%. When you knock him across the screen a heart container just so happens to appear close to him, so when he gets back up he's down to 10%, WTF. Also it feels pretty stupid if you're down to 1 stock with your opponent and unknowingly while you're fighting a bomb-omb or Deku nut is on the opposite side of the stage. You get almost get knocked out of the stage, but when you get up there's a deku nut or bomb about to explode in your face.


    As far as stages I think all of them are fair game. All of the stages with hazards give you a signal when the hazard is coming or they're clearly visible, except for Spear Pillar, so that's the only one that should be excluded. On second thought I would exclude Hanenbow and the DK stages too, because the DK stage is bad map design and Hanenbow is just plain boring.

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  • Dr ButlerDr Butler Butler Doctor Joined: Posts: 183
    I respectfully disagree. Smash is a totally different animal. Fighting game strategy focuses on timing and psyche outs. Smash is much more focused on zoning. Fighters limit what you can do at certain times (gauges, supers, EX), but ultimately have more depth to their movesets, whereas Smash gives you the freedom to perform virtually everything as a free-action, but is ultimately more limited in each attacks overall function. It's more of a platformer, of maybe a sub-genre, like platformer-fighter.

    Fighting games aren't games about fighting; the genre refers to the mechanics that make the game work, and how you play. Saying 'derderrrr Smash has fighting = fighting game' is like saying that GTA is an FPS because it has guns, and gratuitous use of the color brown.
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  • 3SJ3SJ Vote Gary Johnson for The President of the United States Joined: Posts: 346
    Yeah there is no fighting in smash bros right? Is it a video game? Nahh not a video game either. Capcom is wrong.
    More socially liberal than the Democrats and more fiscally conservative than the Republicans.
  • -BEES--BEES- Joined: Posts: 14
    *P*L*U*R* wrote:
    i'm fairly certain that 80 percent of all the hate brawl gets is from people that never even gave the game a chance. they just looked at a bad video and decided the game was terrible. even mew2king said that brawl was fine as a competitive game. it's just not as good as melee.

    It's true that 80% of the hate is from people that never gave the game a chance. The other 20% is perfectly legitimate disappointment with the game though, from people who not only gave the game a chance, but even people who started with Brawl and moved on to Melee and the hacks so they could do awesome combos like they saw in all the videos that inspired them.
  • Hello?Hello? VICTORY POTATO CHIP! Joined: Posts: 55
    Brawl+ made the game a lot better.
    Less stupid stuff more fun.
    I just think it's silly when people say "Just go play melee." Yeah keep playing that game for another +10 years and never move onto the next one or the ones after Brawl. I enjoy a bigger character roster, texture/vertex hacks, psa's, music and level hacks.
    I guess I just like nice things.
  • specsspecs Excuse me, princess! Joined: Posts: 6,380 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Fighting game or not, Brawl is a terrible game.
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  • factory9factory9 ARCANA HEARTO TWEEEE Joined: Posts: 985
    Fighting game or not, Brawl is a terrible game.
    This. Like a billion times this.

    Brawl is probably the only fighting game I like even less than SF4. The only thing that it's good for are the mods that are coming out for it (like Project M get fucking hype)


    so much for brawl sucking


    Hey guys SF sucks a big fat dick.

    So does logic.
  • urkangijordiurkangijordi Spelled UrkAngiJordi Joined: Posts: 90
    If only smash could be played on a fight stick. I hate pads, and particularly Gamecube pads. Second most hated pad next to the classic NES pads.
    My username is actually spelled UrkAngiJordi (Pronounced Urk-Angee-Jordee)
    Ken and Mai are my favorite characters.
    Favorite fighting game franchises. Street Fighter, Virtua Fighter, Capcom VS SNK 2
  • factory9factory9 ARCANA HEARTO TWEEEE Joined: Posts: 985
    If only smash could be played on a fight stick. I hate pads, and particularly Gamecube pads. Second most hated pad next to the classic NES pads.

    Aw, son, you make me sad.

    The Gamecube controller was one of my favorite controllers ever. I got most multiconsole games for the Gamecube just because of the controllers.

    I'm pretty sure the MC Cthulu has some layout for playing Smash, but I don't really know how that is.
  • CryohCryoh Rock Shock Thunderous Beat Joined: Posts: 9,639
    Nah, wouldn't work. Stick would need analog inputs for the tilt and smash attacks.
  • lordvaatilordvaati Friendly Neighborhood Smash Player Joined: Posts: 173
    This. Like a billion times this.

    Brawl is probably the only fighting game I like even less than SF4. The only thing that it's good for are the mods that are coming out for it (like Project M get fucking hype)



    Hey guys SF sucks a big fat dick.

    So does logic.

    this is worse.

    PASBR:PaRappa,Drake
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  • factory9factory9 ARCANA HEARTO TWEEEE Joined: Posts: 985
    this is worse.
    Shit, I forgot about that.

    I was just lazy and picked out the first SF4 Sagat mirror I could find.
  • urkangijordiurkangijordi Spelled UrkAngiJordi Joined: Posts: 90
    factory9, I'm not a pad person in general. In the heyday of NES, Super NES, and Sega Genesis I used to use a joystick for everything. That is once one was available. To this day if the game can be played on stick, I use a fight stick to play it. I tolerate pads for modern games with the Xbox 360 (or Xbox 1 controller S) being my favorite (still has nothing on the godlike Sega Saturn pads).

    It's a personal preference, but to learn Smash means I'd have to get past that. Since I'm already playing games like SF4, I never needed Smash. Mad respects to it though.
    My username is actually spelled UrkAngiJordi (Pronounced Urk-Angee-Jordee)
    Ken and Mai are my favorite characters.
    Favorite fighting game franchises. Street Fighter, Virtua Fighter, Capcom VS SNK 2
  • specsspecs Excuse me, princess! Joined: Posts: 6,380 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I think it's accepted that Brawl is a less technical fighter than Melee, but still a legitimate one. I think it's less skill based, but only slightly. The removal of advanced mechanics like WDing didn't make it a strictly worse game imo.

    The problem wasn't Nintendo removing stuff like WDing and SHFFLing; regardless of the unjustified booing the move got from the so-called "hardcore" crowd, those are just steps to make the game more about strategy and less about awesome muscle memory (see also: Sirlin, and fuck the haters).

    The problem is Sakurai not knowing what the fuck he's doing coupled with a) people spending money on the game, lining Nintendo's pockets and b) people heaping praise on a game that doesn't deserve one iota of it.

    A *thoughtful* developer would sit down and think about how to make a Smash Bros. game compelling and playable both at a "casual" and a more competitive level, and everywhere in between, perhaps with an eye for ways to train and improve beginners. He would look at the basics (hit guys so they fly farther and eventually can't return to the playfield) and decide whether he could design around them or he should scrap them. If he chooses the former, he can design characters and mechanics that keep runaway from dominating (read: NOT tripping). Keep items or scrap them? If you keep the items, think of ways to make them part of the competitive matchup; maybe remove the randomness? Have a spawn timer appear on screen with a picture of the item that will drop in 10 seconds, and that way players can incorporate this new element to their matchup.

    My ego is huge, but I mean it when I say Nintendo could hire me, give me the resources/final say, and I'd give them a superb, deep, thoughtful Smash game that would deserve its praise.

    Also, as always: tripping is a garbage mechanic. It doesn't stifle competition only: it damages every level of play, top to bottom. It's worse than fucking parrying, and parrying destroys what makes Street Fighter Street Fighter. Tripping is worse than that, because at least the parry requires an input and intent.
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  • SmashchuSmashchu Joined: Posts: 124
    The problem wasn't Nintendo removing stuff like WDing and SHFFLing; regardless of the unjustified booing the move got from the so-called "hardcore" crowd, those are just steps to make the game more about strategy and less about awesome muscle memory (see also: Sirlin, and fuck the haters).

    The problem is Sakurai not knowing what the fuck he's doing coupled with a) people spending money on the game, lining Nintendo's pockets and b) people heaping praise on a game that doesn't deserve one iota of it.

    A *thoughtful* developer would sit down and think about how to make a Smash Bros. game compelling and playable both at a "casual" and a more competitive level, and everywhere in between, perhaps with an eye for ways to train and improve beginners. He would look at the basics (hit guys so they fly farther and eventually can't return to the playfield) and decide whether he could design around them or he should scrap them. If he chooses the former, he can design characters and mechanics that keep runaway from dominating (read: NOT tripping). Keep items or scrap them? If you keep the items, think of ways to make them part of the competitive matchup; maybe remove the randomness? Have a spawn timer appear on screen with a picture of the item that will drop in 10 seconds, and that way players can incorporate this new element to their matchup.

    My ego is huge, but I mean it when I say Nintendo could hire me, give me the resources/final say, and I'd give them a superb, deep, thoughtful Smash game that would deserve its praise.

    Also, as always: tripping is a garbage mechanic. It doesn't stifle competition only: it damages every level of play, top to bottom. It's worse than fucking parrying, and parrying destroys what makes Street Fighter Street Fighter. Tripping is worse than that, because at least the parry requires an input and intent.
    This theme of this post is : "OMG I HATE BRAWL. Wait, what's that? PEOPLE LIKE IT! ARRG, THEY LIKE IT MORE THAN MELEE. GGGRRRRRRRR. SAKURAI SUCKS. I CAN MAKE A BETTER GAME."

    Brawl has done just fine as the numbers prove it. The game has sold 10 million according to VGchartz (maybe be more around 9 as VGchartz likes to over track a lot) and is the second most played Wii game according to the Nintendo Channel. The game deserves praise because it's good and people obviously like it.

    Which creates a disparity. The game has shown that a lot of people bought it and a lot of people play it. Yet you say it is terrible. So who is right. Likely it is Sakurai, the man who has made bigger games than you and proven time and time again that he make make the bacon where you whine on a message board because you can not.
  • specsspecs Excuse me, princess! Joined: Posts: 6,380 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    This theme of this post is : "OMG I HATE BRAWL. Wait, what's that? PEOPLE LIKE IT! ARRG, THEY LIKE IT MORE THAN MELEE. GGGRRRRRRRR. SAKURAI SUCKS. I CAN MAKE A BETTER GAME."

    Brawl has done just fine as the numbers prove it. The game has sold 10 million according to VGchartz (maybe be more around 9 as VGchartz likes to over track a lot) and is the second most played Wii game according to the Nintendo Channel. The game deserves praise because it's good and people obviously like it.

    Which creates a disparity. The game has shown that a lot of people bought it and a lot of people play it. Yet you say it is terrible. So who is right. Likely it is Sakurai, the man who has made bigger games than you and proven time and time again that he make make the bacon where you whine on a message board because you can not.

    This post is almost overwhelmingly stupid and I haven't yet decided whether it's worth the tearing apart it truly deserves.

    I'm thinking a "reluctant yes." More in a minute.
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  • specsspecs Excuse me, princess! Joined: Posts: 6,380 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    All right, it's go time.

    Actually, wait, let me roll a d100 first. If I get a 1, I "trip" and can't post... 52. Awesome.
    This theme of this post is : "OMG I HATE BRAWL. Wait, what's that? PEOPLE LIKE IT! ARRG, THEY LIKE IT MORE THAN MELEE. GGGRRRRRRRR. SAKURAI SUCKS. I CAN MAKE A BETTER GAME."

    Actually, you stupid fuck, the theme of the post was "Smash Bros. Brawl is a shitty game that doesn't deserve its praise." You can tell because I specifically mentioned that the game doesn't deserve its praise, implying a) it's a game and b) has received praise I don't feel is deserved. The other theme was "It's too fucking bad a better developer with at least a close-to-triple digit IQ didn't get put on this project, because maybe, instead of just a commercially successful game, we may have had one that's both commercially successful and mechanically sound."

    Any casual observer might ask why the fuck this Smashchu character is fashioning the most ludicrous Glenn Beck level strawman in the world to defend a shitty video game -- one that did financially well and, by all rights, doesn't need his defense -- but that's not even scratching the surface of how utterly ridiculous this post is. As mentioned, I'm almost overwhelmed by its Anti-Dr. B levels of jackassery; the empty left half of my scrotum, where I lost all feeling, has started sending signals to my brain to just give up on this. What I just described is medically impossible, yet here we are.
    Brawl has done just fine as the numbers prove it. The game has sold 10 million according to VGchartz (maybe be more around 9 as VGchartz likes to over track a lot) and is the second most played Wii game according to the Nintendo Channel. The game deserves praise because it's good and people obviously like it.

    Congratulations! You're an idiot!

    Watch this. Watch:

    - McDonalds is the best restaurant in the world. The numbers it pulls in proves it deserves all the good people say about it.
    - World of Warcraft is the best game in the world. I know this because what the fuck else do people play approaching its subscriber base?
    - Marvel vs. Capcom 3 Ryu is better than Super Street Fighter 4 Ryu by virtue of MvC3 Ryu having 999,000 more hit points.

    Maybe in whatever fantasy-ass reality you live in, popularity and financial success translates directly into mechanical merit, but here on planet Earth, in the Sol system, Milky Way galaxy, meta-universe 69DRB1MSXY, merit and money are not the same thing. Yes, it's true: a homemade sandwich with fresh ingredients is cheaper and way better for you than a Big Mac, despite you desperately trying to shine-cancel reason.
    Which creates a disparity. The game has shown that a lot of people bought it and a lot of people play it. Yet you say it is terrible. So who is right. Likely it is Sakurai, the man who has made bigger games than you and proven time and time again that he make make the bacon where you whine on a message board because you can not.

    Michael Bay has a lot of money and a lot of fans. Therefore Michael Bay is a great -- actually, fuck it, I'm listening to my phantom testicle on this one. Eat shit.
    Carlos and Dave Anime Rave is the BEST damn anime review show on the internet! AnimeRave.xyz
  • SmashchuSmashchu Joined: Posts: 124
    I'm very angry
    Oh my, you are a very frustrated individual. Maybe you should calm down. No use getting mad about a videogame.

    I'll try to keep this just to the actual arguments.
    Actually, you stupid fuck, the theme of the post was "Smash Bros. Brawl is a shitty game that doesn't deserve its praise." You can tell because I specifically mentioned that the game doesn't deserve its praise, implying a) it's a game and b) has received praise I don't feel is deserved. The other theme was "It's too fucking bad a better developer with at least a close-to-triple digit IQ didn't get put on this project, because maybe, instead of just a commercially successful game, we may have had one that's both commercially successful and mechanically sound."

    And I said your wrong in that it sold a lot and people still play it (meaning those sales were not just hype and fizzle out). In fact, it deserves a lot of praise. Very few games in this day and age can sell more than 3 or even 5 million and people are still playing it. Here is the thing though: commercial success mean successful games. It is simple as a lot of people enjoyed it and thus spent money on it. That's what you and anyone else does when they like something. By getting a lot of money, they made a lot of people like it. It shows as play data tells us it is of very high quality and not a parlor trick to make money.

    But the argument comes up "Just because it sells doesn't mean it's good." This is only brought up because that person doesn't like X and wants to try and cheapen the victory. Sales are a perfect measure of quality as they are unbiased and are based on something real. They are based on people spending their hard cash on something. You know very well you wont just throw away money, and you'd rather spend it wisely.
    Congratulations! You're an idiot!

    Watch this. Watch:

    - McDonalds is the best restaurant in the world. The numbers it pulls in proves it deserves all the good people say about it.
    - World of Warcraft is the best game in the world. I know this because what the fuck else do people play approaching its subscriber base?
    - Marvel vs. Capcom 3 Ryu is better than Super Street Fighter 4 Ryu by virtue of MvC3 Ryu having 999,000 more hit points.

    Maybe in whatever fantasy-ass reality you live in, popularity and financial success translates directly into mechanical merit, but here on planet Earth, in the Sol system, Milky Way galaxy, meta-universe 69DRB1MSXY, merit and money are not the same thing. Yes, it's true: a homemade sandwich with fresh ingredients is cheaper and way better for you than a Big Mac, despite you desperately trying to shine-cancel reason.
    I don;t think you understand business, and it's a shame too. It controls ever facite of your life. Why do people go to McDonalds? It's because it gives them something they want. They want food that is cheap and fast and McDonalds provides that.

    Now let's think about videogames. What do they provide? Entertainment of course. We can go deeper, but they provide entertainment. Smash Brothers provides a great multiplayer experience and it does it well. So it fits it's role. When this happens, you make a lot of money, assuming you can pull it off. The WoW example is the same thing. It provides people a huge world and lots to do (and a game that will never get boring). Blizzard did this well and they kept a lot of players. If people have been playing for that long, it must be a damn good game. Why wouldn't it? Why would all those people keep playing.

    You mentioned that Smash doesn't deserve it's praise. Now, I say it does. Why? Because it made a lot of money (which means Nintendo gets more Smash games. There is a reason SF went dark for a while). People also played it for a long time and more than any other Wii game. That must mean they like it a lot. All of this points it to being of high quality. Not low.

    I can see the counter argument. "Oh, those people are wrong. They don't like quality." This would make no sense. This means I can say you don't like quality. Who is more likely to be correct? A lot of different people or one guy on the internet who can only write in angry post. Who would make a better game? Sakurai, who worse games still make 1-2million and a lot of huge hits as well Kirby, a big series, or one guy who doesn't like Brawl? I'd vote for Sakurai as you haven't convinced me otherwise. You just got mad I didn't agree.

    But you seem to angry. Take a look at this. You might lighten up :D
  • specsspecs Excuse me, princess! Joined: Posts: 6,380 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Oh my, you are a very frustrated individual. Maybe you should calm down. No use getting mad about a videogame.

    I'll try to keep this just to the actual arguments.

    I rather strongly doubt you'll do that. More likely you'll stick hard and fast to your failed "sales" reasoning.
    And I said your wrong in that it sold a lot and people still play it (meaning those sales were not just hype and fizzle out). In fact, it deserves a lot of praise. Very few games in this day and age can sell more than 3 or even 5 million and people are still playing it. Here is the thing though: commercial success mean successful games. It is simple as a lot of people enjoyed it and thus spent money on it. That's what you and anyone else does when they like something. By getting a lot of money, they made a lot of people like it. It shows as play data tells us it is of very high quality and not a parlor trick to make money.

    WHAT A SHOCK.

    I never questioned Brawl's commercial success, I questioned its merit as a game. You very deliberately ignored that -- or are too stupid to realize that's what I said, despite concise English -- and started on this straw-graspy "but it sold a lot, please don't make fun of my favorite game" bullshit.
    But the argument comes up "Just because it sells doesn't mean it's good." This is only brought up because that person doesn't like X and wants to try and cheapen the victory. Sales are a perfect measure of quality as they are unbiased and are based on something real. They are based on people spending their hard cash on something. You know very well you wont just throw away money, and you'd rather spend it wisely.

    I don;t think you understand business, and it's a shame too. It controls ever facite of your life. Why do people go to McDonalds? It's because it gives them something they want. They want food that is cheap and fast and McDonalds provides that.

    lol @ you telling anyone about what they do or don't understand, when you can't even fathom -- or refuse to admit -- someone pointing out that, holy shit, this well-received, praised game is actually, when scrutinized, extraordinarily shitty.
    More of the same bullshit.

    Channeling your inner Sensei Rouzu doesn't change the fact that you haven't acknowledged, refuted, or even considered anything I said. You saw criticism and immediately pulled the "it sells so it must be good" card, which easily loses to anyone who points out that the majority of people on this planet believe in ghosts, yet ghosts don't exist.

    You're an idiot, plain and simple. That's not opinion, that's not ego, that's not anger, it's fact.

    EDIT - I also wanted to point out that it's rather funny you're desperately trying to convince yourself that I'M the one who's salty when you're the one so quick to defend criticism of Brawl's mechanics by covering your ears and going LALALA. Angry indeed.
    Carlos and Dave Anime Rave is the BEST damn anime review show on the internet! AnimeRave.xyz
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    I bet you're all terrible at your respective "fighting games".
    8tROOXi.png
  • Zmoney2006Zmoney2006 ifitswrong Joined: Posts: 29
    (*sigh*) typical forum community. Anywayz, while there are books that I could right both attacking and defending this game the fact of the matter is that it's a successful failed game. It made the money that it set out to make at the same time it offended/let down the fans from the previous predecessor. The mechanics that made melee as fun and exciting as it was were removed or modified and replaced with other ones that were not recepted in the same light as the past ones. Mechanics and strategies that worked in previous titles no longer were applicable and newer and debatebly less effective ones had to be developed. The pace was also reduced to help newcomers be able to react and adapt quicker then before. The emphasis of the game shifted from high-speed competitive play to a slower yet more easy to pickup play in order to increase revenue and establish more fans. Whether this game was a success or not depends on what it was that you as the consumer was looking to get out of this game. If it was an experience similar to melee style than you would be one of the many disappointed. If you were looking for a completely new game with new mechanics, characters, and style, then you were one of the few delighted. Overall in terms of revenue this game was a success. While both sides have valid arguments let's just buckle down and hope that the next iteration to come within the next few years encompasses the best of both worlds from melee and brawl where that perfect smash game just might exist.
    UMVC3: Main team = Spencer (H. Grapple Shot) / Dante (shots) / Doom (Missles)
    Side team 1 = "Team InYoFace" = Firebrand (Demon Missle Charge) / Ammy (Cold Star) / Strange (Bolts)
    Side team 2 = "Team Combos4Dayz" = Dante (Jam) ) / Sentinel (Drones) / Doom (Missles)
    Side team 3 = "The Big and The Bad" = Nemesis (Launcher) / Haggar (Double Lariat) /Sentinel (Drones)
  • specsspecs Excuse me, princess! Joined: Posts: 6,380 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I've never seen such a gross oversimplification be so large and text-wall-y.
    Carlos and Dave Anime Rave is the BEST damn anime review show on the internet! AnimeRave.xyz
  • Hello?Hello? VICTORY POTATO CHIP! Joined: Posts: 55
    Brawl is the best! :):D;):rock::razzy::woot::china:
  • Smashbro29Smashbro29 Waiting for the new Framemeister... Joined: Posts: 7,185
    It's very simple guys: All 3 Smash Bros. games are fighters and while the first 2 I could see at a tournament or whatever, the 3rd one fails so hard technically (I'll explain after this point) that it's more akin to one of those Naruto/DBZ fighters when it comes to being taken seriously.

    Brawl fails on a technical level (technical level meaning for the competitive crowd) is as follows:

    1. Character balance - Let's ignore MetaKnight for a moment, anyone ever play as Snake? Ever notice how he's faster, stronger, has the most retarded hitboxes ever and has more options then well.... 85% of the cast? Yeah, this is AFTER Meta Knight can kick his sorry ass just imagine a Jigglypuff/Sonic or (this one always makes me laugh) a Link vs one of these beasts? It's practically un-winnable. Not "OMG SENTINEL" or "OMG YUN"! cheap. I'm talking Hercule vs GoGeta in a DBZ game bad.

    2.No hitstun -There is pretty much 0 hitstun in SSBB meaning if Player 1 hits Player 2 with an attack he/she/it/potato will only reel back momentarily.
    This is a flaw for two reasons:
    1. No combos - There are no combos. PERIOD. (no the 3 hit jab strings don't count). You get a hit and that's it, no following it up, no reason to ever practice playing the game, not something a hardcore fan of a series would be happy about.
    2. Getting hit after scoring a hit - This happens all the time and the truth is it's bullshit, if you're still lost as to what I mean allow me to explain:
    Imagine you were playing SF2SSAAE (Street Fighter 2: Super Special Awesome Arcade Edition) and after all the intense mind games and blocks you score a hit, now naturally you would attempt to follow it up to score more damage but even before your attack animation finished your opponent HIT YOU BACK. So you keep playing and this time you're smarter, as soon as you land the attack you block but once again before you can even move onto the next action you get hit. This happens CONSTANTLY in SSBB, try playing Sonic vs Zelda or Lucario vs Anyone it's not something that only competitively focused players should care about that is FLAWED gameplay.

    3. Shielding and dodging- This is very simple. The shields last too long and being able to dodge multiple times in the air destroys any kind of offense (don't forget we already can't combo).
  • kid craft 24kid craft 24 Best Sonic player in New England(retired) Joined: Posts: 8
    Brawls a good game but in no way is it designed to be played competitively at the tourney levels such as SF. That one thing the smash community doesn't and will never understand. Which is why they don't bother to use items, regardless of there so called "randomness".

    I find that excuse as a reason to avoid learning to adapt to items. As the items aren't completely random they do spawn at certain intervals for each spawn setting : High-10-13 medium-15-18 low 20-24 seconds. Only thing that so far can't be judged ahead of them spawning is what item will appear. If the community of brawl or smash in general (although melee doesn't really need items as it can handle a competitive scene without them) learned to adapt rules towards using items and blending them into the current meta-game I'm sure it would be a lot better.
  • Hello?Hello? VICTORY POTATO CHIP! Joined: Posts: 55
    It's very simple guys: All 3 Smash Bros. games are fighters and while the first 2 I could see at a tournament or whatever, the 3rd one fails so hard technically (I'll explain after this point) that it's more akin to one of those Naruto/DBZ fighters when it comes to being taken seriously.

    Brawl fails on a technical level (technical level meaning for the competitive crowd) is as follows:

    1. Character balance - Let's ignore MetaKnight for a moment, anyone ever play as Snake? Ever notice how he's faster, stronger, has the most retarded hitboxes ever and has more options then well.... 85% of the cast? Yeah, this is AFTER Meta Knight can kick his sorry ass just imagine a Jigglypuff/Sonic or (this one always makes me laugh) a Link vs one of these beasts? It's practically un-winnable. Not "OMG SENTINEL" or "OMG YUN"! cheap. I'm talking Hercule vs GoGeta in a DBZ game bad.

    I think you're wrong on this one. I've played with people on a competitive level and it doesn't seem to matter what characters are picked despite how balanced or unbalanced they are, people overcome weaknesses in characters. I've been able to beat Metaknight using Link online and offline. Jigglypuff and Sonic are two of my favorite characters (even though Rest isn't the same). So it really doesn't matter how some characters play; in most cases it's how the player uses the character.

    Go learn about metagame buddy

    http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Metagame
  • orochi ryuorochi ryu Tevale Joined: Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    agree to disgree?
  • ShadolooDollShadolooDoll Joined: Posts: 2,932
    Read between the lines!

    Capcom admits Brawl is a fighting game....
    .....at gunpoint.
  • specsspecs Excuse me, princess! Joined: Posts: 6,380 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I think you're wrong on this one. I've played with people on a competitive level and it doesn't seem to matter what characters are picked despite how balanced or unbalanced they are, people overcome weaknesses in characters. I've been able to beat Metaknight using Link online and offline. Jigglypuff and Sonic are two of my favorite characters (even though Rest isn't the same). So it really doesn't matter how some characters play; in most cases it's how the player uses the character.

    Go learn about metagame buddy

    http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Metagame

    Congratulations on completely failing to understand the post you're replying to. PROTIP: check your own knowledge before telling someone to check theirs.
    Carlos and Dave Anime Rave is the BEST damn anime review show on the internet! AnimeRave.xyz
  • Hello?Hello? VICTORY POTATO CHIP! Joined: Posts: 55
    Congratulations on completely failing to understand the post you're replying to. PROTIP: check your own knowledge before telling someone to check theirs.
    Alright well I'm sure you're going to type out 4 or 5 paragraphs about where I went wrong and how bad this game is etc. etc.
  • specsspecs Excuse me, princess! Joined: Posts: 6,380 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Alright well I'm sure you're going to type out 4 or 5 paragraphs about where I went wrong and how bad this game is etc. etc.

    I'll address what you posted before editing, which was asking where you went wrong.

    You're dismissing balance concerns on the basis that, yes, a player can potentially win with a sub par character. You're also implying that meta balance means no real problem exists, as evidenced by your curt referral to a meta balance article. This is similar to the age old apologist argument that anything is good "for what it is"; by this logic, I can rule out any perceived imbalance from a fighter by simply claiming that since even a subpar character has (semi-)favorable matchups and/or situational amazingness, there's a meta balance and therefore all is right with the world. It's flawed logic.

    This is not to say the dude what you were replying to is dead on in his balance assessment, but if there are flaws to his argument, address said flaws; don't make up Smashchu logic and stick to it like dogma.
    Carlos and Dave Anime Rave is the BEST damn anime review show on the internet! AnimeRave.xyz
  • Smashbro29Smashbro29 Waiting for the new Framemeister... Joined: Posts: 7,185
    Now this is gonna sound lame of me now that I see how angrily I've written that post out. But I was actually hoping to discuss my points maybe come to a head with it all. So I'm gonna ignore your insult and extract the points.

    Online in Brawl DOES NOT COUNT! It's pretty much all casuals 4 Player FFAs with items on any stage, that just doesn't count (we're not even getting into the horrendous lag). As far as offline goes, I don't know which 6 year old cousin of yours you beat with those characters but whoever they are they CLEARLY aren't playing them correctly (I myself admit that while Meta Knight is cheap I've never taken the time to learn him and as such can probably lose as him) Link vs MK is comparable to Dan vs Guy in SFA3. Sure Dan has a shot if the Guy player is inexperienced.

    Not to mention that only one of my points have been addressed.
  • Triple RTriple R Joined: Posts: 39
    Online in Brawl DOES NOT COUNT! It's pretty much all casuals 4 Player FFAs with items on any stage, that just doesn't count (we're not even getting into the horrendous lag).

    You do know about the AllisBrawl ladder, right? That's where most serious people do their online stuff. It's good for 1v1 practice. No need to torture yourself with smashing with "anyone."
  • Renegade TX2000Renegade TX2000 Joined: Posts: 786
    if brawl did have items as a tourney standard I might come back permanently but for now, keep smash off the srk forums. Theres a good reason why i don't bother to go on smashboards anymore. Srk forums>>>Smashboards whole site.

    I also came from the brawl community and meh i don't regret leaving so far.
  • Smashbro29Smashbro29 Waiting for the new Framemeister... Joined: Posts: 7,185
    You do know about the AllisBrawl ladder, right? That's where most serious people do their online stuff. It's good for 1v1 practice. No need to torture yourself with smashing with "anyone."

    I am well aware of the ladder. Most people don't and maybe I was wrong for doing so but I assumed neither did that guy.

    Items will never be implemented owing to the fact that their placement and which item (unless you just turn one item on) you get are both random and therefore it's just not fair if items spawn next to one player. By the way, coming in with Brawl as your first game and quitting is perfectly understandable. Come back when Project:M is ready.
  • specsspecs Excuse me, princess! Joined: Posts: 6,380 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    A David Sirlin designed Smash game would make me cum buckets of cum buckets.
    Carlos and Dave Anime Rave is the BEST damn anime review show on the internet! AnimeRave.xyz
  • kid craft 24kid craft 24 Best Sonic player in New England(retired) Joined: Posts: 8
    Items could perfectly be blended into competitive play just everyone makes a big deal over the fact that they can't predict what item shows up. And just because an item spawns near a player doesn't mean it's unfair when the exact same thing it bound to happen to you. Items spawn closer to the player who is losing even if it's by 1%. and they have set spawning areas just they rotate which one of those areas to spawn at. If the smash community took the time and effort they could find a way to balance the game through items. which in turn would fix most if not all the issues they face with characters like MK and CG's and camping, planking, etc. Items also add another layer of strategy to the game which could prove to advance the meta game further and maybe even faster than what it's currently at. I fear for the next smash bros mainly because right out of the gate it's going to have to follow the same standard rules (3 stock no items and a timer). Smash is a fighter but one that completely segregates what makes it such a unique fighting game. If i wanted to play a fighting game without items i would enjoy it more playing SF or any other game actually geared towards not having them present. Smash is certainly a fighting game but not a traditional one yet everyone or should i say mostly everyone in the competitive smash community tends to thing otherwise in a desperate attempt to make the game they care about match the standards of traditional fighters when it just can't be done.
  • KarateLincolnKarateLincoln Eighting's Number One Fan Joined: Posts: 496
    I'd like to congratulate the OP on such a magnificent bait.
  • EbonyBlackEbonyBlack Joined: Posts: 15
    Sure it's a fighter. It's a great one at that.
    Soulcalibur is my favorite fighting game series. I also like Tekken, MK, and SSB.
    Join the fight for Hwang's return into the Soulcalibur series today! For Facebook users:
    http://tinyurl.com/3oejql6
    Otherwise join here: http://www.petitiononline.com/2611873/petition.html
    Thank you kindly!
  • PKSkylerPKSkyler Viewtiful and Stylish! Joined: Posts: 6,998
    http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=120286

    Someone actually thinks Brawl is good.

    I know I have a soft spot in me for Smash, but the series only had Melee to give it its scene. 64 was had too much hit-stun, and Brawl takes very little skill to play unless your playing a shitty character.

    64 was great. Imo one of the best. Melee will forever be hype. Brawl is just so stupid. Every top player that makes money picks Meta Knight, or the RARE Snake.
    Kick, Punch, its all in the mind. Casino, Dojo, its all in the mind.
    "He may look like a mere boy, but dont let that fool you. He has PSI abilities that defy all scientific explanation. He can use teleportation, levitation, pyrokinesis, and psychokinesis."
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