-- Weightlifting & Nutrition Thread -- v9.0 Optimized

CrouchingTigerCrouchingTiger MacBauer who?Joined: Posts: 719
**Useful Links**
Men's Health detailed routine (very helpful)
Men's Health Fitness Forum
Diet Plans (for gaining, not losing)
Explanations of exercises
How to tone up those abs

Most of you probably didn't expect a thread like this from a skinny guy like me, but I don't think the old one still exists, so here's a new one.

Some beginning weightlifting suggestions can be found on these websites, such as this:
Great - you've decided to try bodybuilding. Perhaps you want to build mass, tighten up your midsection or slim down; those are all possible with strength training. Whatever your reason (and you should definitely write down your goals for starting and your realistic expectations of what you hope to achieve in the short and long term),m you should follow a clearly defined program.

Don't expect us to provide you with any so-called success; let's state for the record right now that some training methods are smarter and better than others, but nothing resembles a secret. Our role here is to teach and guide you through your first three months so that you can take your training to the next level and design a personal routine that meets your needs.

Is there one program that's right for everyone? No. Did you really expect that one routine would serve the needs of the female college basketball player who wants to make a more dominating presence on the court, the 45 year old businessman looking to firm his body and improve his health, and the young man interested in competitive bodybuilding? Every person who trains has different motivations, desires and genetic potential, and each must make his or her own adjustments in putting together a particular program. It's really not so difficult. But before you get started, here are some points you'll want to consider.

1. Get a physician's release if you are over 40 or have had any sort of previous injury or impairment.

2. Be realistic but positive. Assess your current condition and where you want to be in three months, one year and five years. Keep focused on your goals and know you'll achieve them.

3. Commit yourself to three months before making any judgements about whether it's working or not. The truth is, you're probably a bit impatient, and sculpting your physique takes time. Changes take place incrementally, but three months is long enough to notice some significant changes in strength and size. Persistence and dedication are characteristics that all successful bodybuilders have in common. Do you?

Designing Your Exercise Program

Before getting into your program, you need to develop an understanding of how and why you're building your exercise routine. Although we've gone ahead and designed a program for you, just about everything in ti can be changed depending on your particular circumstances. Your primary objective here, as a beginner, is to build a solid foundation - and not just any training program will take you there in an efficient manner. Study the following points to better understand your bodybuilding program.

Bodypart Training

Bodybuilders group exercises by bodypart and train one muscle group at a time. Working one are with 1-3 exercises ensures that you train it thoroughly. Experience says that this type of training is the most efficient for bodybuilding. (Circuit training, on the other hand, allows you to do movements for different bodyparts back to back with no rest in between).

Every major muscle group should be developed to prevent muscle imbalance and the risk of injury. The major muscle groups include legs (quadriceps, hamstrings, calves, glutes), chest, shoulders, back (Trapezius, lats, erectors), abdominals and arms (biceps, triceps).

Exercises

You can choose from any number of movements that target a particular muscle group, but beginners should stick with the basics to develop a solid foundation. The first exercise you do for a given bodypart should be a compound movement. (A compound or multijoint movement, unlike an isolation exercise, has movement at two or more joints and thus brings in a greater number of assisting muscle groups. Note: Some bodyparts like biceps, triceps and calves can be worked with pre-dominatantly isolation exercises.)

Some basic movements can be done in a number of ways; for example, you can do a bench press with a barbell, with dumbbells or on a machine. Eventually, you'll learn how to do them all and use the in your training arsenal.

Two similar exercises can target a muscle differently. For example, the bench press is a good exercise for most of the chest, but the incline press (essentially a bench press done on an incline bench) works the upper pectorals more effectively. When you put exercises together to form a routine, you'll want to include those movements that hit the same muscle in different ways. That's why you normally include 2-3 exercises when you work each bodypart.

Weights

During the first couple of training sessions, you'll want to go pretty light just to get a feel for how to do the movement correctly. After you feel comfortable with the form, begin adding weight.

Even an experienced lifted should always do his first set as a warm-up with practically no weight to flush to target muscle and connective tissue with blood. On the second set, add a couple of small plates and do the exercise again. Was it still east? If so, and assuming you used good form, add more weight. If you struggled to reach 12 repetitions, add just a little bit of weight. (Adding weight on successive sets is called pyramid training and is one of the safest ways to train.)

Continue adding weight until it becomes tough to complete 8-12 reps. Your goal is to train in the range where you reach muscular failure at 8-12 reps. Once you find a challenging weight, stick with it. So you'll become stronger and be able to increase the number of reps. Once you can do 12, it's time to increase your training poundage by about 10%. At this heavier weight, you won't be able to do 12 reps, but with time you'll once again be able to. Keep working in this fashion.

The principle behind this type of training is known as overload. It states that for improvements to occur, you must impose a demand on your muscles greater than what they're accustomed to (for bodybuilding purposes, about two-thirds of your maximal strength). Your muscles compensate for this strain on the cellular level by adding protein to grow thicker and stronger. At that point, the same load is no longer sufficient to induce further changes, more load must be added. That is, you must progressively add training stimulus to make continued improvements.

Keep track of your training poundage by recording your weights, sets and reps in a training log alongside a list of your exercises.

Some bodybuilders swing and heave, cheating for the sake of pushing heavier weights. Remember, the name of the game here is not weightlifting, but rather bodybuilding.
(to be continued)
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Comments

  • CrouchingTigerCrouchingTiger MacBauer who? Joined: Posts: 719
    (continued from above)
    Sets

    A set is a combination of any number of reps of a single exercise. As a beginner, you'll normally want to do 1-2 light warm up sets of each movement (especially the first movement for a given bodypart) before doing 1-3 heavier sets. That equals 2-4 total sets per exercise.

    Reps

    A rep is a single execution of one exercise. if you do a set of 10 bicep curls consecutively, that's 10 reps. During your first week or two, keep the weights very light so that you can complete about 15 reps in good form. This is a change for you to practice good form while you work on your neuromuscular coordination and lean the proper 'feel' for the movement. Developing that feel with become even more critical later on because it will tell you if an exercise is working.

    After that initial break-in period, to build size and strength you want to do 8-12 reps per set (after your warm-up set of 15 reps, which you should do at the start of each exercise). Use a weight that allows you to do the recommended number of reps and still reach muscle failure.

    Muscle failure means that you cannot do any more reps with good form. If you can't do eight strict reps, the weight's too heavy. If you can do more than 12, the weight's too light. Adjust the weight for your next set. (Note: The numbers eight and twelve are not arbitrarily derived. Exercise scientists have conducted numerous tests and have found that working with a weight about 70% of your one-rep maximum produces the fastest results. Most bodybuilders can lift about 70% of their one-repetition maximum 8-12 times).

    Though you don't have to train to muscle failure to grow, you need to come pretty close. Bodybuilders call this intensity. How do you know if you're close to working at 100% intensity? Simple: If you can do another rep with good form, do it! If you can do still another, do it.

    After you build you base, you may want to experiment with a program that alternates periods of high reps (which build muscle endurance) to medium reps (builds muscle mass) with low reps (builds strength and power) and back up again. This is called cycling. The idea here is to progress to a higher level of strength each cycle. (Note: Advanced strength athletes like powerlifters use slightly different training methods, most notably the number of reps, that do bodybuilders. You'll get stronger as you build muscle, but training to maximuse strength isn't identical to the type of training that maximizes mass.)

    Proper Form

    We'll say this again and again, but it's far better to use a weight that allows you to perform the movement correctly than to cheat with a heavy weight that will, sooner or later, result in an injury.

    Speed of Movement

    Use a smooth, controlled motion during all phases of the lift. This deliberate rep speed produces the greatest results for bodybuilding purposes. Super-fast reps with ballistic movements and jerking can be harmful to muscles and connective tissues, while slow training accomplishes very little. In general, most bodybuilders use a formula that approximates a two-second positive contraction (raising the weight), a momentary squeeze of the muscle at the point of peak contraction, and a two-second negative contraction (lowering of the weight).

    Breathing

    Most people don't think much about breathing until they begin lifting weights, but it should still come naturally. Start each set with a deep inhalation and exhale as you push through the most difficult part of the lift. Inhale at the top (or the easiest portion of the lift) and exhale as you push.

    Rest between Sets

    In general, rest as long as it takes for you to feel recovered from your previous set. That normally ranges from 45-90 seconds. Larger muscle groups take a bit longer to recover; smaller muscle groups clear low pH levels are are ready to go more quickly. Don't fall into the all too common mistake of talking with your buddies for 3-4 minutes between sets, during which time your muscle can become cold. This is counterproductive and lengthens the time you spend in the gym.

    If you want to emphasize strength, take a little longer rest between sets. On the other hand, less rest means you won't be able to lift as heavy, but you'll be stressing your endurance. Of note: How much you can lift on a given set and the number of reps you do are directly related to the length of your rest period.

    Use a Full Range of Motion

    Use a full range of motion in your exercise movements. You want to work each target muscle through its natural range of motion for complete development and to prevent injury.

    Training Frequency

    Say you train your entire body on Monday. Should you do it again on Tuesday, or wait until Wednesday? The answer is that your body requires a minimum of 48 hours to fully recover after exercise, sometimes even longer. Physiological processes at the cellular level require rest and nutrients before you can train that same muscle group again. A good rule of thumb: If you're even slightly sore, you're not ready to train that bodypart again.

    If you're an advanced bodybuilder and split up your workout into, for example, one day for upper body and another for lower body, you can train on consecutive days as long as you don't repeat the same workout. As a beginner, you don't want to go more than 96 hours (four days) without training the same muscle group again. Timing too infrequently results in submaximal gains.

    The answer for the beginner, then, is to train every 2-3 days (or three times a week). A Monday - Wednesday - Friday (or similar) schedule is ideal.

    Training Duration

    If you follow the exercises, sets, reps and rest prescription, you should complete your resistance training in about an hour. Never mind those two hour plus sessions; who could possibly maintain the high level of intensity and mental fortitude of a marathon training session? What matters is the quality of your workout measured by the intensity you create, not the length of time you spend in the gym. Remember that.
  • CrouchingTigerCrouchingTiger MacBauer who? Joined: Posts: 719
    As for nutrition, people seem to agree more on it than they do the weightlifting aspect of a good fitness routine. Whereas there are several contradicting views on weightlifting, nutrition seems more straightforward. Again, a useful article from www.getbig.com :
    Daily Caloric Intake

    This is an area that has been used and abused a lot over the past several years. At one point, high calorie diets are in and a year later low calorie diets are back in fashion. The same holds true for Proteins, Carbohydrates and Fats. Opinions seem like they're changing on a daily basis and they are! The following formula is tried and true. lf you follow it and make adjustments where they're needed, you can't help but to achieve nutritional nirvana. Many complex formula's for figuring daily caloric needs have been introduced. My formula is a simplified and effective version.

    Take your current body weight or a realistic body weight goal (Up or Down), and multiply it by your desired factor (either 12, 15, or 18). If you want to lose weight or have a slower metabolism, multiply your weight by 12. For maintaining your current weight, multiply your weight by 15. And for hardgainers or those looking to gain weight, multiply your weight or desired weight by 18. This is a starting point for figuring out your daily caloric needs. (Example: Male who is 200lbs x 15 = 3000 calories per day, Female wh is 130 lbs x 15 = 1950 calories per day). You may need to adjust your caloric need by 50 - 100 calories per day should you stagnate and not be achieving your desired goals. This formula also works as a nice starting point for a bodybuilder looking to figure out the different caloric needs over the course of a year.

    A Pre-Contest bodybuilder would use their desired body weight multiplied by 12. An off-season bodybuilder would use their weight or desired weight multiplied by 15 or 18 depending on how fast their metabolism is and how lean they want to stay in the off-season. I personally use my body weight multiplied by 15. This allows me to grow and stay very lean in the off-season. This formula works equally well for both men and women.

    After figuring your daily caloric needs, you now need to figure out how many grams of protein, carbohydrates and fat you'll take in per day. Roughly 30-35% of your calories should come from protein, 50-60% from carbohydrates and 10-15% from fats. Each gram of protein or carbohydrate is equal to 4 calories. Each gram of fat is equal to 9 calories. Your calories should be partitioned somewhat equally throughout 5-6 meals or more per day. Higher calorie post workout meals are encouraged and will be discussed later in this article. Although vitamins and minerals will not be discussed in detail in this article, I do recommend everyone use some type of Mega Multi Vitamins or Vitamin Pack on a daily basis. Such supplementation provides daily insurance and eliminates the worry of meeting required needs for general health and recovery.

    Protein

    Protein is essential for the repair and growth of muscle tissues. The amino acids derived from proteins form the building blocks for all cells in the human body. Without protein, your organs, hair, nails, immune system and every other part of your body would not survive. Those who work out need to supply their bodies with enough protein to carry out the bodies regular day to day functions along with recovering from your daily workouts. Daily protein requirements for active people have been disputed for years between sports medicine professionals and those who decide on the US RDA's. My personal opinion and that supported and accepted by most sports nutritionists and bodybuilding experts is 1 - 1.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight. This is a perfectly safe and very effective amount. Any less and your recovery and growth will suffer. Higher amounts of protein don't seem to be any more beneficial, either.

    Your protein intake should be approximately 30 - 35% of your total caloric intake. A 200 lbs male eating 3000 calories per day would want to consume 250 grams of protein per day, this would be 33% of his total calories. A 130 lb female eating 1950 calories per day would want to consume roughly 160 grams of protein per day, this would be 33% of her total calories. Your protein intake should be divided somewhat equally throughout all of your meals. If our 200 lbs male consumed 6 meals per day, he would want to consume 35-43 grams of protein per meal. If our 130 lb female were eating 6 meals per day, she would want to consume 20-30 grams per meal.

    Best Protein Sources: Protein Powders and Supplements, Turkey, Chicken, Fish (White), Lean Red Meat, Egg Whites.
    (to be continued)
  • CrouchingTigerCrouchingTiger MacBauer who? Joined: Posts: 719
    (continued from above)
    Carbohydrates

    Carbohydrates are the bodies preferred energy source. For the purpose of this article, I will break them down into two categories: Simple carbohydrates and Complex carbohydrates, Complex carbohydrates are carbohydrates that are broken down slowly and elicit a mild blood sugar response. With the exception of post workout meals, complex carbohydrates should represent the majority of the carbohydrates in your diet.

    Simple carbohydrates are only recommended during the first two hours following your workout. The reason for this is simple carbohydrates elicit a rapid rise and fall in your blood sugar levels. This not only causes you to feel sluggish and tired but it also causes such an insulin spike that the body begins to convert and store those simple carbohydrates as fat, sometimes even before the simple carbohydrates leave the liver. Needless to say you've triggered hormones that are more conducive to fat storage than they are to fat burning and muscle building.

    However during that two hour period following your workout, often considered the post workout window of opportunity, your body and your muscles are very receptive to simple sugars. Spiking your insulin levels at this time will not only help to begin refilling all your depleted glycogen stores but will also help you recover and feel revived from your intense workout. It is believed that 60 - 80% of your glycogen replenishment (carbohydrate storage & replacement) needs to take place within two hours after training. In other words, the quicker you can get the carbohydrates into those hungry muscles, the better your chances of having a great workout the next time out. It only makes sense that simple carbohydrates would work the quickest and get the job done with no drawbacks. But remember this is really the only ideal time for simple carbohydrates in your diet. During all other time frames, complex carbohydrates will help you to sustain a nice steady energy level that delivers a steady flow of carbohydrates to the muscle.

    Carbohydrates should make up 50-60% of the calories in your diet. As with proteins, you need to space your carbohydrates throughout your meals for the day. A good ratio would be 1 - 1.5 grams of carbohydrates per gram of protein in all your regular meals and 2-3 grams of carbohydrates per gram of protein in your two post workout meals. I mention two because one should come immediately at the gym usually in the form of a drink or bar or both depending on your size, and the other should come about 60-90 minutes later in the form of a meal at your home, office or other destination. These two meals should represent 30-45% of your total calories and carbohydrates for the day. If you use a higher carbohydrate pro workout meal (60-90 minutes prior to training), its perfectly fine to make adjustments in your other meals ratio's to balance out your daily percentages.

    If you do eat foods that contain simple sugars, an easy way to combat the insulin spike is to simply make sure your eating complete meals. In other words, taking in protein with simple sugars, or for that matter any carbohydrates will slow down the absorption rate for a much more favorable and growth promoting blood sugar profile.

    Best Complex Carbohydrate Sources: Oatmeal, Brown Rice, Beans, Hot Air Pop Corn, Green & Yellow Vegetables, Shredded Wheat, Yams, Sweet Potatoes.

    Best Simple Carbohydrate Sources: (Post Workout). American Body Buildlng's Critical Mass, XXL, Bulk Force, Amino Force, Carho Force, Steel Bar's, Amino Power, Super Shakes (The product of choice depends on your size and caloric needs). Foods include Boboli Pizza with Fat Free Cheese, Whole Wheat or Buckwheat Pancakes, Whole Wheat Pasta's, Syrian Bread sandwiches with real turkey or chicken, etc.

    Best Meal Replacements: American Body Building's High Voltage.

    Fats

    All the fat you need should occur naturally in your everyday diet. However, if your fat intake is extremely low (below 10%), I would recommend supplementing a tablespoon of flaxseed oil, olive oil or even a serving of peanuts just to make sure you get your essential fatty acids. Essential fatty acids do play a role in growth, recovery and day to day well being. My recommendation is your daily caloric intake consist of 10-15% fat.

    Mid Night Meals

    At one time or another you've probably been warned not to cat anything before bed or in the middle of the night because it will turn immediately to fat. This is Dead Wrong! One of the biggest mistakes a bodybuilder can make is to go 10 or more hours without eating. If you eat every 2 - 4 hours during the day to prevent catabolism, what logic could convince you to fast every night for 10 - 12 hours. This might be the easiest way to interrupt recovery and growth on a daily basis. The following recommendation might be the most important growth promoting tip you've ever received. Eat 1 - 2 times during the course of the evening. I'm not talking about a full meal but rather a small protein based meal. Carbohydrates are not all that important during the middle of the night simply because you're not doing anything but sleeping. However, protein will help to prevent catabolism and, during the all important Growth Hormone releasing sleep, promote anabolism. l'd recommend either drinking a protein shake, taking some amino's, eating 3 - 4 egg whites or having a cup of cottage cheese just before bed and then once again in the middle of the night when you get up to go to the bathroom. All you need is about 75 - 125 calories in each meal and don't forget to include them in your daily counts. Start eating in the middle of the night and you'll be growing around the clock, and don't worry, I guarantee you won't get fat.

    Summary

    As I stated in the beginning of the article, nutrition is by far the most important factor and is almost always responsible for either success or failure in bodybuilding and most fitness programs. Although very complex, a basic understanding can guide anyone in the right direction. As you progress in your bodybuilding and fitness programs and gain further understanding of the relationship between performance, recovery and nutrition, you'll be able to find certain nutritional strategies and manipulations that will help drive you to new heights. In future articles, we'll discuss such strategies and manipulations. Until the next issue, good luck to all and hopefully bodybuilding's nutritional jigsaw puzzle is a little easier for you to understand now.
  • CrouchingTigerCrouchingTiger MacBauer who? Joined: Posts: 719
    Now that I've covered the basics and reasons behind workout routines and nutrition plans, here is an actual routine. Supposedly, this is the routine Brad Pitt used for Fight Club. It can be found at various places on the intarweb.
    Monday Chest
    3 - 25 push ups
    3 - nautilus press 45,55,65
    3 - nautilus incline press 55,65,70
    3 - pec deck machine 40,45,50

    Tuesday Back
    3 - 5 pull ups
    3 - seated rows 75,80,85
    3 - lat pull downs 85,90,95
    3 - t bar rows 50,55,60

    Wednesday shoulders
    3 - arnold press 35,35,35
    3 - laterals 15,15,15
    3 - front raises 10,10,10

    Thursday Bicep/Tris
    3 - nautilus curl machine 20,25,30
    3 - ez curls cable 30,35,40
    3 - hammer curls 15,20,25
    3 - push downs 50,55,60

    Friday
    Treadmill 45 minutes 65-75% MHR

    Sat/Sun off

    Reps Range From 20-30 reps on all exercises

    Not a lot of weight, but only giving your self about 30 seconds of rest between sets keeps heart rate up which leads to burning fat and putting on a toned or ripped look.

    I think I'm gonna give that routine a try, because I would love to look like this, minus the cigarette and shadowy eyes of course.

    However, I have some questions about that routine. What are: nautiless press, pec deck machine, arnold press, hammer curls, push downs? Also, what's the difference between: seated rows, and t-bar rows? And what is "laterals" for shoulders? Lastly, what does MHR mean on the treadmill?

    Oh also, where are his legs and abs workouts? While I hear his legs are small, surely he has to do something else for his abs...
  • darthJonesdarthJones She is dancing you perv! Joined: Posts: 200
    anyone know what toby maguire's workout routine is. he was able to do that within 3 months on a vegetarian diet (or so i've read). that's awesome.
    the girl in my avatar is dancing. what did you think she was doing?
  • ercoerco Large Member Joined: Posts: 650
    MHR = Maximum Heart Rate
    Laterals = Pulling weight down from above your head to work your back.

    LOL, you wanna look like Brad Pitt? I find that funny, don't know why.

    EDIT: Toby was on Yoga Yoga Yoga workout.
    I like games
  • The FireboyThe Fireboy Joined: Posts: 936
    I was wondering if anyone was going to make this thread again, I was thinking about it last night, but I'd feel stupid since I'm not muscular and only looking to get that way. But for your questions, check Bodybuilding.com I think it was posted in the last thread, they have an area of the site that tells you (With pictures) just about every strength training exercise you could think of.

    And as of right now, I'm doing 8-10 reps and 5 sets. But my friends keep telling me to put on a lot of weight with less reps will work just as good, if not better. Anyone know if I should be doing HIT? Or just stick to my current ways of doing things?
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  • CrouchingTigerCrouchingTiger MacBauer who? Joined: Posts: 719
    I was wondering if anyone was going to make this thread again, I was thinking about it last night, but I'd feel stupid since I'm not muscular and only looking to get that way.
    Hey, don't feel bad. I'm in the exact same boat, and that didn't stop me. :karate:

    As for Toby McGuire, I don't know the details, but I remembering hearing he got that way in 5 months, not 3, and I think he strayed from his vegetarian diet a bit to get at least a little bit of protein. I also believe he spent roughly 5 hours a day doing exercises. A regular weight workout, probably some aerobics, and like someone else mentioned lots of yoga.

    I'm gonna try that Brad Pitt routine, like I already stated, coupled with some leg and ab workouts. Only thing I need now is a nutrition plan. All those numbers aren't easy to interpret in terms of food. I need someone to lay me out a weekly menu. :clap:
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    And as of right now, I'm doing 8-10 reps and 5 sets. But my friends keep telling me to put on a lot of weight with less reps will work just as good, if not better. Anyone know if I should be doing HIT? Or just stick to my current ways of doing things?

    Just as good at what?

    Low reps at high weight gives you bigger, stronger, twitch muscles.

    High reps at low weight gives you endurance muscle and a better cardio workout.

    There isn't any better, it just depends on what you want. And nothing says you can't mix them. Personally, I would rather be lean and muscular than just plain big.
  • The FireboyThe Fireboy Joined: Posts: 936
    Only thing I need now is a nutrition plan. All those numbers aren't easy to interpret in terms of food. I need someone to lay me out a weekly menu. :clap:

    I don't know too much since I just started as well, but from what I read is, it's a calorie game, and the best thing to eat would be anything with protein. And only a few carbs like starchy carbs as rice and what not, and then fibrous carbs like green vegetables but I'd look up on it, since I could be wrong (Or the entire article I read could be a lie. :xeye: )

    I had a similar question, I have a good protein intake for my body (I eat just about nothing but steak as of late.) But would something like whey protein shakes be worth it as I'm only trying to lose body fat currently, but retain as much muscle as I possibly can.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Just don't push it to the limit with the lifting, unless you don't mind a prolapsed colon.
  • True_TechTrue_Tech dragon the body Joined: Posts: 2,739 mod
    i personally frequent the mens health forum they always give good advice and i'm following the homegrown muscle program they have links below
    homegrown muscle
    http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article/0,2823,s1-1-0-0-199,00.html
    the fitness forum
    http://forums.menshealth.com/forum.jspa?forumID=1
    if you're a beginner like me homegrown is a good program to follow till you have enough knowledge to start your own

    ask them what you should eat and you'll get plenty of replies and links about a weekly plan and how you should eat and i'll tell you now what they'll tell you,eat 4 to 6 small meals a day to keep your metabolism boosted so it burns more fat and calories
  • CrouchingTigerCrouchingTiger MacBauer who? Joined: Posts: 719
    True_Tech wrote:
    eat 4 to 6 small meals a day to keep your metabolism boosted so it burns more fat and calories
    But is that what someone like me, who weighs 130 pounds, wants? I'm one of the few people out there who aren't trying to lose weight, but gain it. I don't wanna put on fat though, I wanna stay lean and just add muscle.

    After looking at that link briefly, I would indeed like to look like this and this. Or at least somewhere between Pitt/that. I just don't wanna get too big ya know.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Heres an assload of articles about weight gain diets and what not.

    http://bodybuilding.com/fun/bbinfo.php?page=MassGainDiets
  • RomieRomie Joined: Posts: 204 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Yayyyy, it's back.

    I've been meaning to start another thread, but I don't come to the boards as much anymore... damn school...
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    i'm interested in toning down my midsection.
    could you guys point me toward the right direction/website/diet?

    I'm doing alright so far, but i can tell i'm not doing the right thing by just doing 100 sit-ups at night. so yeah, i'd appreciate some tips.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    nautilus is just a brand that makes workout machines.
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/browse.html/102-1663641-7812960?node=3408311&no=3684491&me=AZPP3FBYJ6TUE

    so he is just doing a bench and incline bench machine.
  • CrouchingTigerCrouchingTiger MacBauer who? Joined: Posts: 719
    i'm interested in toning down my midsection.
    could you guys point me toward the right direction/website/diet?

    I'm doing alright so far, but i can tell i'm not doing the right thing by just doing 100 sit-ups at night. so yeah, i'd appreciate some tips.

    I think you might find this useful: http://www.soyouwanna.com/site/syws/abs/absFULL.html

    It basically says you're going to need to cut the fatty foods (it explains how to figure all that out), and NOT do situps. Crunches are more effective, whereas situps are too easily done improperly, causing strain on your back and not enough focus on your abs. Also it says situps will add bulk to your obliques (love handles) which would increase your midsection. Not what you're looking for. Do crunches and leg raises, as described in that article. It's a fairly short read. Read it. :)

    And cool LordViper, I thought that might be what it was. What about the other exercises I had in question? RPDrookie said hammer curls are just as if you were holding the dumbell like a hammer, vertically. What about the rest?

    Also that Men'sHealth link seems very informative, but I've only skimmed over it as of now. I'll add that to the first page so newcomes can find the info quickly.
  • True_TechTrue_Tech dragon the body Joined: Posts: 2,739 mod
    But is that what someone like me, who weighs 130 pounds, wants? I'm one of the few people out there who aren't trying to lose weight, but gain it. I don't wanna put on fat though, I wanna stay lean and just add muscle.

    After looking at that link briefly, I would indeed like to look like this and this. Or at least somewhere between Pitt/that. I just don't wanna get too big ya know.
    yeah thats what you want cause you always want to burn fat so that you gain more muscle and less fat but gaining just means you eat more calories then you can burn theres plenty of calorie calculators on different sites where you put in your stats and it tells you how much to eat to get this and this so to like gain so much weight, you'd eat so many calories. gotta love technology
  • HeaTHeaT mindgames Joined: Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    But is that what someone like me, who weighs 130 pounds, wants? I'm one of the few people out there who aren't trying to lose weight, but gain it. I don't wanna put on fat though, I wanna stay lean and just add muscle.

    After looking at that link briefly, I would indeed like to look like this and this. Or at least somewhere between Pitt/that. I just don't wanna get too big ya know.

    if you want to look like that thats at least 10 years of SERIOUS lifting and nutritioning...

    laterals for sholders are where you grab dumbbells in each hand and starting from you sides lift them up laterally untill they are parallel to the floor, like when someone tells you to lift your arms to take your chest measurement...

    im outi

    Roberth
    I stream games - twitch.tv/heatzgaming
    Youtube channel - youtube.com/heatfury
  • HernyHerny WORST time Joined: Posts: 305
    Nice!!
    I, myself, am a SCRAWNY guy....like REAL skinny and I've always been too embarrassed to go to the gym since I am kind of weak too.....
    So, What am I supposed to do...? To start off?
    I've read some of it, and I am not 100% sure which one is right for me?
    Help?

    Oh....and would it be GAY if people start posting pics of how they look NOW? like a Before & After thing..... -_-
    So gay =P
  • ercoerco Large Member Joined: Posts: 650
    Ok, hope you guys can help me out here.

    I can stand to lose a few pounds, and just tone up in general. I don't have access to a gym at my apt complex, nor do I want to spend $150 + $30/month to join a gym in my neighborhood, but I do have a good set of adjustable dumbells. Any help here, or am I just much better off going and spending the money to join Bally's or 24hour?
    I like games
  • CrouchingTigerCrouchingTiger MacBauer who? Joined: Posts: 719
    Herny wrote:
    Nice!!
    I, myself, am a SCRAWNY guy....like REAL skinny and I've always been too embarrassed to go to the gym since I am kind of weak too.....
    So, What am I supposed to do...? To start off?
    I've read some of it, and I am not 100% sure which one is right for me?
    Help?
    Same here. I finally just bit the bullet and went though. You should too. Everybody has to start somewhere. All the buff guys you see in there used to either look like you, or were fat. Besides, I think in most cases you'll find that you're not the only scrawny one in there.


    HeaT: 10 YEARS?? Wow. Toby McGuire went from basically where I am to the way he is in Spiderman in 5 months. I don't have the time to spend on it like he did, nor the professional trainers and nutritionists to help me... so I imagine I could achieve what he did in a year to a year and a half. Maybe those pics I posted were a bit too much heh. My target weight is 160-170... how much do you suppose those guys weighed?
  • RomieRomie Joined: Posts: 204 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Brad Pitt can't be more than 170lbs (Fight Club days). And McGuire can't be more than 150.

    Norton in AHX was wayyyyyyyy bigger than any of them. No idea why he got so small again.
  • CrouchingTigerCrouchingTiger MacBauer who? Joined: Posts: 719
    Romie wrote:
    Brad Pitt can't be more than 170lbs (Fight Club days). And McGuire can't be more than 150.
    Yeah, from what I've read Pitt was 160ish during Fight Club. How much do you think these guys weigh? 1 2
  • Rhio2kRhio2k Senior Member Joined: Posts: 11,417 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    blood_sin wrote:
    Just don't push it to the limit with the lifting, unless you don't mind a prolapsed colon.

    Maaco can't fix THAT kind of blow-out. :lol:
    Roger: Well, Anita's pregnant, and-
    Cruella: Well, what can I say? Accidents will happen.
    Roger: We're having puppies, too.
    Cruella: *Gasp* Puppies!? *Leer* My, you have been a busy boy!
  • RomieRomie Joined: Posts: 204 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Yeah, from what I've read Pitt was 160ish during Fight Club. How much do you think these guys weigh? 1 2

    Depends on how tall he is. He looks around 175lbs. If he's taller, then he'd weigh more.
  • glassglass half empty Joined: Posts: 555
    i was recommended to go to http://www.wannabebigforums.com, but haven't checked much of it out.

    i did find a little motivational article taken from T-mag.com:
    http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=573&page=1&pp=25
    No rest for the wicked.
  • True_TechTrue_Tech dragon the body Joined: Posts: 2,739 mod
    Herny wrote:
    Nice!!
    I, myself, am a SCRAWNY guy....like REAL skinny and I've always been too embarrassed to go to the gym since I am kind of weak too.....
    So, What am I supposed to do...? To start off?
    I've read some of it, and I am not 100% sure which one is right for me?
    Help?

    Oh....and would it be GAY if people start posting pics of how they look NOW? like a Before & After thing..... -_-
    So gay =P
    look at the homegrown link its made for people who either workout at home or a gym they have exercise you can do with dumbells or like me i only have a barbell with enough weight to be a challege so for every exercise theres 2 or 3 ways to do it depending on what you have
  • CrouchingTigerCrouchingTiger MacBauer who? Joined: Posts: 719
    Herny wrote:
    Nice!!
    So, What am I supposed to do...? To start off?
    Before you start any weight plan, you should probably spend a couple of weeks jogging or doing other sorts of cardio, and using some really light weights and doing a lot of repetitions. That way you will build your endurance, something you'll need if you are to actually go for heavy weights and no more than 90 seconds rest between sets (the general recommendation). Also, using light weights to start off will let you get used to doing the proper motion. If you start off right away with tough stuff, and you end up doing it wrong, you're not beneffiting as much. Quality over quantity. It's better to use weight you can have good form with and do correctly, than to use a large amount of weight for an ego boost or bragging rights.

    edit: not saying you don't want to challenge yourself. Definately push it to the limit, just know what that limit is.
  • CrouchingTigerCrouchingTiger MacBauer who? Joined: Posts: 719
    I just calculated my nutritional intake for the day, and here are the results:

    cheese - 70
    5g fat
    2g carb
    4g protein

    eggs - 70 x 2
    4g fat
    1g carb
    6g protein

    juice - 110 x 2
    26g carb
    2g protein

    bacon - 35 x 4
    2.5g fat
    2g protein

    tuna - 60 x 2.5
    1g fat
    13g protein

    mayonaise - 100 x 2
    11g fat

    bread - 60 x 8
    .5g fat
    12g carb
    3g protein

    pot pie - 400
    23g fat
    37g carb
    10g protein

    jelly - 50 x 2
    13g carb

    peanut butter - 190 x 2
    16g fat
    7g carb
    8g protein

    milk - 130
    5g fat
    12g carb
    8g protein



    -fat- 41%
    1003.5

    -carb- 39.5%
    964

    -protein- 19.5%
    474


    -total calories-
    2441.5


    Well, I'm meeting the caloric formula of "current weight * 18" in order to gain, but I'm getting the calories from the wrong area it seems. I had no idea I consumed that much fat. That frozen pot pie was unhealthy, as is my regular mayo. I should buy nonfat kind.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    okay, most of the sources out there preach that to cut-up, your body must use up (external activity and internal functions combined) more calories than one consumes in a given day. i assume that the human body is smart enough to know when it's getting less energy than it's using.

    what exactly does this mean? besides cutting up (by either fat or muscle shrinkage)...will you be feeling hungry all the time? (body's way of saying it needs more energy), feel fatigued, etc.?
  • CrouchingTigerCrouchingTiger MacBauer who? Joined: Posts: 719
    ^ I'm not sure. I don't think that's accurate. In order to be cut, I believe you have to have a combination of muscle, and low body fat. I don't believe you would have to burn more calories than you intake daily... like you said, I don't think that would be good. You should probably be burning off most/all of your fat calories though, however that works. Cardio, and lots of it basically.

    Don't quote me on this, I don't know the magic to getting cut yet. ;) It shouldn't be hard for me though, my metabolism is like an unstoppable freight train. I just need to get the muscle.

    Question. I read from several sources that 55:30:15 is the ratio of carbs:fat:protein that you should strive for... but that getbig site says that's the ratio of carbs:protein:fat. Is consuming as little as 15% fat healthy? Not to mention how hard that would be to consume that little fat.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    i assume that the human body is smart enough to know when it's getting less energy than it's using.

    what exactly does this mean? besides cutting up (by either fat or muscle shrinkage)...will you be feeling hungry all the time? (body's way of saying it needs more energy), feel fatigued, etc.?

    Unfortunately, it isn't. The body has weird mechanisms that you have to overcome. For example, dropping your cholesterol intake sharply, your body will start producing cholesterol on its own and you end up with higher cholesterol than when you started dieting.

    The immediate effect of burning up calories than you eat will result in several things, among which you already mentioned. You feel more tired easily, you feel hunger more easily, etc. Of course, in losing weight you also put less stress in your heart and muscles, so long term effect would feeling less tired and less hungry.

    CrouchingTiger:

    If I remember correctly, the formula to losing weight would be to cut down 1000 calories (daily) from whatever diet you should be following based on your body mass index. This would result in approximately pound loss per week, given normal activities. The loss of 1000 calories also limits the resulting "binge" eating that results from dieters feeling hunger all the time.

    For each 9.3 calories of excess enermgy entering the body, 1 gram of fat is stored.

    55:30:15 Carb:protein:fat is approximately correct, at least for normal activity ("Dietary Guidelines for Americans", US Deparment of Agriculture and Deparment of Health and Human Services). You are correct, however, in saying that different sources argue (the second book I picked up listed 45:14:45, which means 45% comes from fat).

    Sorry, don't have data for those in an body building regimen. In any case 15% fat is next to impossible to achieve unless you prepare all your food yourself. As for 15% fat being healthy, sure it is. The body has ways to compensate... and I actually have to look for a case where a person suffered a condition from lacking eating fat (will get back on it).
  • True_TechTrue_Tech dragon the body Joined: Posts: 2,739 mod
    okay, most of the sources out there preach that to cut-up, your body must use up (external activity and internal functions combined) more calories than one consumes in a given day. i assume that the human body is smart enough to know when it's getting less energy than it's using.

    what exactly does this mean? besides cutting up (by either fat or muscle shrinkage)...will you be feeling hungry all the time? (body's way of saying it needs more energy), feel fatigued, etc.?

    every time you cut you lose *some* muscle but if you exercise and eat right you lose less muscle and more fat, and no you won't feel hungry if you're eating as planned because you can always have a healthy snack i'm partial to jerky myself, really you're eating more,because you have more then the usual 3 meals a day
  • CrouchingTigerCrouchingTiger MacBauer who? Joined: Posts: 719
    If you lose muscle when you cut, should I be doing this "Brad Pitt routine?" Cuz I don't have much muscle to begin with, I'm 130lbs. I have next to no fat as well, but still... Cuz at 20-30 reps a set (which I can't even do that many yet), I would assume the main goal of this workout is to cut up.

    Should I be doing heavier weights and less reps until I gain some weight/muscle, THEN switch to this type of workout? It's all so complicated. :sad:
  • RomieRomie Joined: Posts: 204 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    If you lose muscle when you cut, should I be doing this "Brad Pitt routine?" Cuz I don't have much muscle to begin with, I'm 130lbs. I have next to no fat as well, but still... Cuz at 20-30 reps a set (which I can't even do that many yet), I would assume the main goal of this workout is to cut up.

    Should I be doing heavier weights and less reps until I gain some weight/muscle, THEN switch to this type of workout? It's all so complicated. :sad:

    No. Generally speaking, you should keep the same rep and set scheme ALL the time. Doesn't matter if you're cutting or bulking. You should be using heavy weight and less than 10 reps all the time. More reps than that is for endurance training. Low reps build strength and mass.

    The only difference between cutting and bulking is diet and cardio, the training should be the same.
  • True_TechTrue_Tech dragon the body Joined: Posts: 2,739 mod
    at 130 you should be bulking but still make sure you watch what you eat because that and exercise is the different between gaining more muscle or gaining more fat
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I remember there were some tips in one of the old threads about how to go about problems working out the chest. I haven't made much progress lately.
  • RomieRomie Joined: Posts: 204 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    jamessalas wrote:
    I remember there were some tips in one of the old threads about how to go about problems working out the chest. I haven't made much progress lately.

    Then you should change your routine a little bit. Incline DB presses are by far the best exercise there is for chest.

    Or you could change your rep scheme. If you do 6-8 reps, you might want to aim for 10. You'll definately feel a difference.
  • HernyHerny WORST time Joined: Posts: 305
    OK, I thought it over for the past week
    I've finally decided and realized who had the perfect body (Not intended to sound gay)

    Bruce FUCKING Lee
    Its perfect, plus its just the right size for chinese ppl (not too big or small)
    BUT, how can i achieve this??? Any special rountine?
  • True_TechTrue_Tech dragon the body Joined: Posts: 2,739 mod
    Herny wrote:
    OK, I thought it over for the past week
    I've finally decided and realized who had the perfect body (Not intended to sound gay)

    Bruce FUCKING Lee
    Its perfect, plus its just the right size for chinese ppl (not too big or small)
    BUT, how can i achieve this??? Any special rountine?

    only if you plan on training like bruce lee he was known to train up to 14 hours a day, i would tell you just find a good workout program you like and follow and just watch what you eat
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Heres perfect.
  • MagnusMadnessMagnusMadness Senior Citizen Joined: Posts: 1,282
    crouching tiger.....without steroids it's gonna take you a long fuckin time to gain 40 pounds of muscle....I'd say with the way u describe ur metabolism ur looking at at least a couple years.

    Also people gotta realize that 67% of what u look like is what you eat...if ur not taking in enough protein in a given period of time u might just be wasting ur time in the gym...

    Another reason u should eat like 6 meals a day is so ur body can actually use all the protein you give it...I wanna say most people's bodies can't really take in more than 35-40 grams of protein at one sit in...and you really should be aiming to take in a gram of protein for every pound you weigh.

    Also...some proteins are better and more "complete" than others..and that's why I drink a couple protein shakes a day...You guys may already know this but one of the most perfect, naturally occuring protein is egg whites...boil some eggs...peel the whites off...season em with a little salt and pepper and go to town.

    I weighed 145 in high school and am now at almost 170

    And about getting cut...unless ur pretty overweight..the muscle mass you put on will help metabolize fat tremendously..but you can also try staying away from salts and stuff with sodium cuz without the water weight you'll see a big difference and ur skin will look a little thinner.
    Have no Way as Way
    Have no Limitation as Limitation
  • CrouchingTigerCrouchingTiger MacBauer who? Joined: Posts: 719
    Actually I finally settled on a routine and have been going at it for about a month now. I already feel better, and though I haven't gained maybe more than a pound yet, there is actually a slight noticable difference.

    While I've settled on a good routine, I'm still trying to iron some of the wrinkles out of my diet plan, but once I get that final piece of the equation, the gains should be flowing in hopefully.

    This is my routine:

    ---Monday---
    Barbell Benchpress 3x8
    Dips 3x8
    Standing Military Press 3x8
    Side Lateral Raises 3x8

    ---TUESDAY---
    30min cardio

    ---Wednesday---
    Wide-grip Chins 3x8
    Bent-over Barbell Rows 3x8
    Barbell Curls 3x8
    Dumbell Shrugs 3x8

    ---THURSDAY---
    30min cardio

    ---Friday---
    Squats 3x8
    Stiff-legged Deadlifts 3x8
    Calf-Raises 4x8
    Decline/Weighted Crunches 3x20

    ---SATURDAY---
    rest

    ---SUNDAY---
    30min cardio

    My diet has been for the past week, roughly 2500 cals a day at 45:35:20 ratio of carbs:protein:fat. When I run out most of my current food and have to go to the grocery store again, I plan on getting food to fit this diet:

    [quote=Bigfella from www.muscletalk.co.uk]

    *** Rapid weight, while staying lean ***
    By Bigfella ? MuscleTalk Moderator

    For me this is the best method for adding rapid weight while dropping bodyfat and maintaining leanness. I have tried and tested this in practice with many experienced and novice trainers.

    Begin with a maintenance diet (one that holds body weight steady). It must be minimum 1g protein/lb bodyweight, 15% from healthy fats and the rest from mostly complex carbs.

    12lb lean mass in 6 weeks is possible by doing the following:

    Add 1000kcal to each daily intake from above in the form of 450kcal of protein, 450kcal of carbs (which may be maltodextrin) and 100kcals of fats, this will give 7000kcals excess per week which equates roughly to 2lb bodyweight, small adjustments maybe needed as you gain but essentially this is pretty close.

    Now the above diet is for week one only, and as each week goes by, you are going to load protein which accelerates the accumulation of lean muscle tissue, do this by adding 25g (100kcal) of protein to each day?s food intake and reduce 25g (100kcal) of carbs (maltodextrin). This new dietary change is followed for a week and then performed again the next week and so on for all 6 weeks; the results of the loading can be remarkable if rest, training and food choices are optimal.[/quote]
  • RomieRomie Joined: Posts: 204 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Actually I finally settled on a routine and have been going at it for about a month now. I already feel better, and though I haven't gained maybe more than a pound yet, there is actually a slight noticable difference.

    While I've settled on a good routine, I'm still trying to iron some of the wrinkles out of my diet plan, but once I get that final piece of the equation, the gains should be flowing in hopefully.

    This is my routine:

    ---Monday---
    Barbell Benchpress 3x8
    Dips 3x8
    Standing Military Press 3x8
    Side Lateral Raises 3x8

    ---TUESDAY---
    30min cardio

    ---Wednesday---
    Wide-grip Chins 3x8
    Bent-over Barbell Rows 3x8
    Barbell Curls 3x8
    Dumbell Shrugs 3x8

    ---THURSDAY---
    30min cardio

    ---Friday---
    Squats 3x8
    Stiff-legged Deadlifts 3x8
    Calf-Raises 4x8
    Decline/Weighted Crunches 3x20

    ---SATURDAY---
    rest

    ---SUNDAY---
    30min cardio

    My diet has been for the past week, roughly 2500 cals a day at 45:35:20 ratio of carbs:protein:fat. When I run out most of my current food and have to go to the grocery store again, I plan on getting food to fit this diet:

    You really need to add more to that routine. I see almost no isolation work there, and way too many sets to stimulate your muscles.

    For chest alone, I'd do at least 9 sets. 8 for quads, 4 for hams, 5 for calves, 6 for tricep, 6 for bicep, 4 for each head of the shoulder, 6 for traps, 8 for lats and middle back, 4 for lower back.
  • MagnusMadnessMagnusMadness Senior Citizen Joined: Posts: 1,282
    that's a decent workout I guess....I notice ur not doing any kinda incline press and that's essential..You'll also want to throw in a decline press exercise as well...dips do hit the very bottom of ur chest, but only ever so slightly.

    Other than that..ur hittin the major muscle groups, but after about another month...u should seperate ur muscle groups into different days and start to REALLY tax them...cuz that's the only way ur going to put on some mass...I've been at this a couple years off and on but this past 6 or 7 months I've gotten serious and alot more hardcore. Here's my weekly routine...but I can already here the naysayers tellin me I'm over training

    Day 1: Chest and Tri's

    dumbell press
    Incline dumbell press
    dumbell flies
    hammer strength decline press
    cable cross decline flies
    dips
    tricep pull downs
    curl bar nosebreakers
    dumbell kickbacks

    Day 2: Back and Bi's

    Pull ups (ABSOFUCKINLUTELY necessary)
    wide grip lat pull downs (in front of neck to simulate a pull up motion)
    more lat pull downs on a different machine and slightly closer grip
    Don't know what this is called but u take a dumbell and lay over a flat bench and hold it out and let it go back behind ur head and pull it back up over u...(this is sposed to stretch ur ribcage out while workin ur lats at the same time)
    One arm dumbell rows
    Seated rows with a different grip
    dumbell curls
    concentration curls with a curl bar
    hammer curls with cables.
    Sometimes a couple exercises for forearms too here of late.

    Day 3: Shoulders and traps

    seated dumbell military press
    military press on a cybex machine
    lateral raises
    frontal raises
    I hit the rear delts on a machine for flies, u just turn around and do reverse flies...and I down set those
    barbell smilies
    side shrugs with dumbells
    frontal barbell shrugs (be sure to roll the weight each rep and hold to make sure u hit the back of ur traps too)

    Day 4: Legs

    Squats on a smith machine
    Leg press
    Leg extensions
    6 sets of reverse curls for hams on two different machines
    6 sets of calf raises on two different machines...one seated and one standing.

    (Sometimes) Day 5: Either Chest again or Bi's/Tri's

    Repeat chest workout

    Or do 9-12 sets each of whatever I feel like doing for bi's and tri's

    I also try to do abs at least 3 times a week whenever I can.
    Have no Way as Way
    Have no Limitation as Limitation
  • CrouchingTigerCrouchingTiger MacBauer who? Joined: Posts: 719
    Hmm, I cut down my routine because I was previously "overtraining." I don't really know what kind of isolation work I should be doing right now, nor how I would add any in without overtraining once again.

    Not only that, but I'm usually too wasted after that to do any remaining isolation exercises: On Mondays, after benches and dips, I don't really have anything left in my chest for another exercise, and barely enough left in my triceps for a military press. The only reason I even do laterals is because I feel my shoulders are by far my weakest area, so I figured I could work them a bit harder than everything else. Wednesdays, my biceps are pretty worked after the chins and rows, so all they have left in them is enough for some type of curls. I had originally settled for concentration curls, but was advised to go for barbell curls. On Fridays, my legs DEFINATELY won't be doing any extensions after squats. I might could get in some leg curls, but the SLDL's seem to work my hamstrings pretty good anyway.

    The reason I have the days split up like they are is due to what muscles are synergistic to the rest. Chest/tris/shoulders all get worked together, as do back/bis. My routine is basically a traditional push/pull/legs routine. I think I would prefer a four day routine, giving shoulders/traps their own day apart from chest/tri, but I was again advised against that, being told that unless my shoulders are already becoming defined, they shouldn't get their own day. And as I already stated, my shoulders being my weakest point, they are far from defined right now.

    If you want to lay out a workout plan for me Romie, feel free to heh. But every time I try to add in an isolation exercise, I start to feel like "well if I'm isolating this, why not isolate that?" And before I know it I have 15 exercises per session lined up, and I'm back in the overtraining boat again.

    As for chest, I do probably need an incline in there... I was planning on swapping it out with the flat bench after a couple months when I change my routine up a bit. But dips feel like they hit my chest pretty hard, particularly if you cross your feet behind you and lean forward. I certainly didn't see the point of dips and decline presses, so I opted for one over the other.
  • CrouchingTigerCrouchingTiger MacBauer who? Joined: Posts: 719
    Any thoughts on that Romie/MagnusMadness? As another example, today was back/bicep day, and my biceps literally couldn't do another curl near the end of my third set of BB curls. Chins and BB Rows were already taxing my biceps, and curls finished them off.
  • ercoerco Large Member Joined: Posts: 650
    no ab work at all?
    I like games
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