-- Weightlifting & Nutrition Thread -- v9.0 Optimized

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  • NickRocksNickRocks SATSUI NO SABU Joined: Posts: 22,561
    if ur prepping steaks for a week then u have a nice life
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  • Songo[KthX]Songo[KthX] (*_*(O-('.'Q) Joined: Posts: 2,019
    edited May 7
    Even if you're doing ground beef you're measuring before hand, not after. A 1lb chub of ground beef is a 1lb chub before you cook it and its gonna be considered a 1 lb chub of ground beef after it's made.

    I also used steaks to simplify the argument, because yours is ridiculous.
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  • NickRocksNickRocks SATSUI NO SABU Joined: Posts: 22,561
    edited May 7
    The thing is u think its an argument when its really not

    You weight ur food for ur portions after cooking. And u count the portion sizes for ur macros. Boom. Simple

    For stuff like rice i measure out the amount thats going in, but when im making the portion is when im weighing it out too.
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  • ZeroZero Ruler of Dimension X Joined: Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    dab00g wrote: »
    People need to add gotch bible at least once or twice a week to their routines

    Your gains in strength, endurance, form, weight loss, speed, agility, and discipline are too strong

    Did a gotch bible set today. Will probably be dead in 3 hours.

    Pray for me.

    Since I live out in the sticks in Japan now (where there is no gym), I've been thinking about adding gotch bible once a week to complement my home routine. Just one question: do you actually play the whole deck?
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  • dab00gdab00g Joined: Posts: 20,067
    Yes, unless you are a weak individual

    Do the whole deck
  • ZeroZero Ruler of Dimension X Joined: Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    dab00g wrote: »
    Yes, unless you are a weak individual

    Do the whole deck

    Will do.

    And I'm glad to see you arn't dead. You are a key participant to this thread.
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  • UltimateChocolateUltimateChocolate Joined: Posts: 40
    i started working out again and i main type of workouts i've been doing is squat like workouts and any press workouts one day and then deadlifts and back/pull workouts the next time. after one of those i end each day on the row cardio machine for about 5 minutes, maybe jump rope too for a couple of minutes if i still have enough energy and then a 15 to 30 minute walk. i try to go 4 times a week. i hate having an arm day. i have no fitness goals beside just a bit of weight loss
    just want to know is this a good routine or should i add something.
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  • NickRocksNickRocks SATSUI NO SABU Joined: Posts: 22,561
    i started working out again and i main type of workouts i've been doing is squat like workouts and any press workouts one day and then deadlifts and back/pull workouts the next time. after one of those i end each day on the row cardio machine for about 5 minutes, maybe jump rope too for a couple of minutes if i still have enough energy and then a 15 to 30 minute walk. i try to go 4 times a week. i hate having an arm day. i have no fitness goals beside just a bit of weight loss
    just want to know is this a good routine or should i add something.

    Need more details
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  • NickRocksNickRocks SATSUI NO SABU Joined: Posts: 22,561
    edited May 9


    phil heath weighs his food cooked imagine that cookiemonster.gif
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  • ShinjiGohanShinjiGohan Joined: Posts: 5,078 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    imagine that, you can find people on both sides of the spectrum that say what you say.
  • NickRocksNickRocks SATSUI NO SABU Joined: Posts: 22,561
    imma believe a 6x mr olympia more doe
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  • nikeSBstunna89nikeSBstunna89 WOLVES Joined: Posts: 1,471
    it ain't that serious.
  • Songo[KthX]Songo[KthX] (*_*(O-('.'Q) Joined: Posts: 2,019
    imagine that, you can find people on both sides of the spectrum that say what you say.

    The autism spectrum for sure.
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  • ShinjiGohanShinjiGohan Joined: Posts: 5,078 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    NickRocks wrote: »
    imma believe a 6x mr olympia more doe

    imma believe someone that doesn't have the genetic gifts that a phil heath does.

    Are you going to ask someone who naturally can do something and never had to try. Or someone that had to experiment and try many different things to get the same results?

    Michael Jordan may be the goat, but he wouldn't know shit about coaching or training someone to be able to do the things he does naturally. Which is why lesser players end up being better coaches than MVPs.
  • NickRocksNickRocks SATSUI NO SABU Joined: Posts: 22,561
    NickRocks wrote: »
    imma believe a 6x mr olympia more doe

    imma believe someone that doesn't have the genetic gifts that a phil heath does.


    Are you going to ask someone who naturally can do something and never had to try. Or someone that had to experiment and try many different things to get the same results?

    Michael Jordan may be the goat, but he wouldn't know shit about coaching or training someone to be able to do the things he does naturally. Which is why lesser players end up being better coaches than MVPs.

    |: okay bro
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  • ShinjiGohanShinjiGohan Joined: Posts: 5,078 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    My point being is the Phil Heath could gain muscle either way. Doesn't make a difference for him.

    Someone that has a harder time gaining muscle or dieting would be a better source of information.

    Just like you don't ask someone that never had to train to be able to dunk a basketball to teach you how to dunk. You ask someone that trained their ass of and learned how to dunk.

    To keep it FGC related, you don't ask Justin Wong for advice, he'll only give you advice that only he and other elite players could pull off. You want advice from someone that could tell you how to do something that is actually within your grasp.
  • thurstthurst What's my age again? Joined: Posts: 11,511 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I have come back to ask the buff guys in here for some advice. So I did 5 weeks of strict strongman 5x5, then had a hard deload after I seized my back and shoulders. Now I'm back but on a 3x5 routine instead( I hit 270 lbs at 5 rpm on squats).
    My current issue is that the deadlifts are way too much after squats. Would it be advisable to switch from squats 3x a week to squats 2x a week in favor of having a solo deadlift day? I'd fill the squat slot for that day with a couple of accesory workouts and just have that be my overhead press/DL/accessory day. On that note, I've been having MAD trouble with the overhead press. I had reached a max of 115lbs on an olympic barbell but now I'm back at 105 and almost struggling a bit. Maybe I should switch to a narrow barbell/dumbells? I've been told to do it on the olympic barbell for the sake of engaging the lats and stabilizers but I feel like I'm weakening....

    Anyhow my current regime is:

    Workout A: 3x5 squats, 3x5 bench press, 3x5 bent over rows, 3x8 lat pulldows, 3x8 insert tricep workout here
    Workout B: 3x5 squats, 3x5 deadlift, 3x5 overhead press, 3x8 bicep curls, 3x8 calf raises.

    Progress is mostly steady but I just did a deload 3 workouts ago and would hate to plateau so early on again....i'd love any kind of advice.

    @Citrus_monkey Unless the dude that created StrongLifts changed it, you're only supposed to do 1x5 for deadlifts precisely because it's a lot of work for your back. It's been awhile since I dod SL or SS, but I'm fairly certain deadlifts are only supposed to be done 1x5.
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  • dab00gdab00g Joined: Posts: 20,067
    Add neck bridges, upas, and countdown pushups and stretches to your work
  • ZeroZero Ruler of Dimension X Joined: Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    OK, so my town opened a gym this month and I no longer have to work out at home. It's small, it's only has one squat rack and one bench, no dumbells, and machines too light to be of any use, it's expensive, and only open 3 hours a day (on weekdays), but it's a gym dammit.

    I'm back!
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  • nikeSBstunna89nikeSBstunna89 WOLVES Joined: Posts: 1,471
    edited May 25
    You're an idiot if u pay for that. Only open 3 hours a day? Dafuq?
  • dab00gdab00g Joined: Posts: 20,067
    Zero wrote: »
    OK, so my town opened a gym this month and I no longer have to work out at home. It's small, it's only has one squat rack and one bench, no dumbells, and machines too light to be of any use, it's expensive, and only open 3 hours a day (on weekdays), but it's a gym dammit.

    I'm back!

    You in japan right? I would look into bjj gyms

    If you find a good bjj place you will meet other foreigners into fitness

    Gyms in japan are basically tiny studios

    Whack as hell
  • Negative-Zer0Negative-Zer0 Joined: Posts: 9,649
    Keto is a good diet for cutting right? Getting rid of carbs is very very hard for me of do. Cut out bread pasta rice and all fruits. My food options are basically chicken, steak, eggs, bacon, and various vegetables.

    Don't know how NickRocks did it but I am happy to test this diet out. Been on keto for 1 day so far.
    “I was trying to take the easy way out by running away from everything. No matter the pain, I will keep living. So when I die, I'll feel I did the best I could.” - Koala
  • Songo[KthX]Songo[KthX] (*_*(O-('.'Q) Joined: Posts: 2,019
    Keto is a good diet for cutting right? Getting rid of carbs is very very hard for me of do. Cut out bread pasta rice and all fruits. My food options are basically chicken, steak, eggs, bacon, and various vegetables.

    Don't know how NickRocks did it but I am happy to test this diet out. Been on keto for 1 day so far.


    uh... permanent cutting or temp?
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  • Negative-Zer0Negative-Zer0 Joined: Posts: 9,649
    Keto is a good diet for cutting right? Getting rid of carbs is very very hard for me of do. Cut out bread pasta rice and all fruits. My food options are basically chicken, steak, eggs, bacon, and various vegetables.

    Don't know how NickRocks did it but I am happy to test this diet out. Been on keto for 1 day so far.


    uh... permanent cutting or temp?

    temp
    “I was trying to take the easy way out by running away from everything. No matter the pain, I will keep living. So when I die, I'll feel I did the best I could.” - Koala
  • white shadowwhite shadow WHAT'S MY NAME NYUKAH?!!! Joined: Posts: 13,402 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Keto is a good diet for cutting right? Getting rid of carbs is very very hard for me of do. Cut out bread pasta rice and all fruits. My food options are basically chicken, steak, eggs, bacon, and various vegetables.

    Don't know how NickRocks did it but I am happy to test this diet out. Been on keto for 1 day so far.

    Yes, yes it is. Compared to most diets involving caloric restrictions, keto barely causes any muscle catabolism. Bear in mind that the intial weight loss you'll see in the first week will be mostly water weight and your workouts will feel under par due to your muscles being drained of glycogen.

    Coincidentally, I've also started it again this week.
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  • NickRocksNickRocks SATSUI NO SABU Joined: Posts: 22,561
    i did keto for the first 3 months of the year lost alot of fat its a good diet for that

    currently i just count my macros and im recomping
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  • thurstthurst What's my age again? Joined: Posts: 11,511 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Don't forget nuts. I couldn't have lasted on keto for a year without almonds, peanuts and walnuts. Macadamian nuts are the perfect keto food, but they're pretty expensive (at least in Korea).
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  • Negative-Zer0Negative-Zer0 Joined: Posts: 9,649
    So I went to the doctor and she showed me that my blood pressure was constantly 130/76 and that is in prehypertension ranges. I don't know if its my diet or what but should I get off of keto or keep at it?
    “I was trying to take the easy way out by running away from everything. No matter the pain, I will keep living. So when I die, I'll feel I did the best I could.” - Koala
  • NickRocksNickRocks SATSUI NO SABU Joined: Posts: 22,561
    you can stay in keto just stop eating so much salt
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  • fei longfei long pilot kids master Joined: Posts: 46 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    That looked easy bro!
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  • white shadowwhite shadow WHAT'S MY NAME NYUKAH?!!! Joined: Posts: 13,402 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    So I went to the doctor and she showed me that my blood pressure was constantly 130/76 and that is in prehypertension ranges. I don't know if its my diet or what but should I get off of keto or keep at it?

    Are you sure you're in keto? Try buying some keto pee sticks to make sure because usually it's harder to maintain salt and other minerals in the body due to frequent urination. If you're not fully in keto, due to the amount of sodium in meats, cheeses and other high fat foods you will definitely see some blood pressure changes.
    It could be Esther Baxter vs. Pat Morita in drag and half of this board would be like "black chicks don't really turn me on sooo..." - Randomnigga

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  • nikeSBstunna89nikeSBstunna89 WOLVES Joined: Posts: 1,471
    This cut is going amazing. Down 8 lbs in 3 weeks. I've been doing 3 days of cardio a week for about 35-40 minutes each time on top of my 6 day training schedule. I'm definitely trying to hurt some feelings this summer.
  • ShinjiGohanShinjiGohan Joined: Posts: 5,078 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    So I went to the doctor and she showed me that my blood pressure was constantly 130/76 and that is in prehypertension ranges. I don't know if its my diet or what but should I get off of keto or keep at it?

    Are you sure you're in keto? Try buying some keto pee sticks to make sure because usually it's harder to maintain salt and other minerals in the body due to frequent urination. If you're not fully in keto, due to the amount of sodium in meats, cheeses and other high fat foods you will definitely see some blood pressure changes.

    What good would keto sticks do? If he is working out enough to be using the ketones as fuel there shouldn't be any ketones left in his blood or urine stream. Now if he isn't workout out enough and has a surplus of ketones then yeah, it'll be in your piss. But you don't want that. You want to actually use said ketones otherwise you risk going into ketoacidosis.
  • Citrus_monkeyCitrus_monkey Joined: Posts: 1,898
    thurst wrote: »
    I posted this on Discord, but I'll post it here, too. Hit my deadlift PR last week.


    Good shit man, good form to boot.

    I've been making progress and slowly breaking my plateaus, feeling fairly proud atm. Finally managed to do squats at 280, 5x5. Finally broke my deadlift plateau too, at a 1RPM of 410 and 5 RPM of 385. Have had a few of my peers say i've been looking bigger lately too; feels fucking good.
  • white shadowwhite shadow WHAT'S MY NAME NYUKAH?!!! Joined: Posts: 13,402 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    So I went to the doctor and she showed me that my blood pressure was constantly 130/76 and that is in prehypertension ranges. I don't know if its my diet or what but should I get off of keto or keep at it?

    Are you sure you're in keto? Try buying some keto pee sticks to make sure because usually it's harder to maintain salt and other minerals in the body due to frequent urination. If you're not fully in keto, due to the amount of sodium in meats, cheeses and other high fat foods you will definitely see some blood pressure changes.

    What good would keto sticks do? If he is working out enough to be using the ketones as fuel there shouldn't be any ketones left in his blood or urine stream. Now if he isn't workout out enough and has a surplus of ketones then yeah, it'll be in your piss. But you don't want that. You want to actually use said ketones otherwise you risk going into ketoacidosis.

    Ketoacidosis doesn't occur on a keto diet or otherwise unless said person already has serious metabolic issues; diabetic ketoacidosis is another thing altogether and caused by a complete near to complete lack of insulin production. You're not going to use up 100% of the ketones in your body from working out because your body on keto is consistently releasing it for maintenance- unless you're literally starving, there will be traces left to show you that it's occurring at volume above what you'd see in a normal, carb-fueled diet, where glucose would be the primary source of energy.
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  • ShinjiGohanShinjiGohan Joined: Posts: 5,078 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    wrong
  • Citrus_monkeyCitrus_monkey Joined: Posts: 1,898
    Everyone I know who has done or is doing ketosis looks like shit, cant lift or do cardio. Plus a couple of friends who have done bodybuilding for longer say it's garbagepoopy.
  • ShinjiGohanShinjiGohan Joined: Posts: 5,078 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    As you get rid of carbs as your fuel source and replace them with fat so those can be broken down into ketones for fuel. What hormonal changes do you think your body is doing? Seriously? Your body stops producing insulin because it isn't needed (hint, you aren't taking in any sugar sources for insulin to be used on, so insulin production drops dramatically).

    Instead your body is now producing glucagon instead where your body uses a process known as gluconeogenesis. Your body can't use both insulin and glucagon at the same time. The more you have of one, the less you have of another.










    maybe try studying up on how ketosis actually works.
  • white shadowwhite shadow WHAT'S MY NAME NYUKAH?!!! Joined: Posts: 13,402 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    As you get rid of carbs as your fuel source and replace them with fat so those can be broken down into ketones for fuel. What hormonal changes do you think your body is doing? Seriously? Your body stops producing insulin because it isn't needed (hint, you aren't taking in any sugar sources for insulin to be used on, so insulin production drops dramatically).

    Instead your body is now producing glucagon instead where your body uses a process known as gluconeogenesis. Your body can't use both insulin and glucagon at the same time. The more you have of one, the less you have of another.


    Yes I'm well aware of glucagon and how the process works. Where the misunderstanding lies is that a lack of regulatory insulin due to an overworked pancreas in diabetics- which is what causes diabetic ketoacidosis, is different from the low basal insulin production for those doing the keto diet. This isn't as simple as switching one hormone on and the other off like a light switch. If one hormone is completely lacking or ineffective (i.e., insulin) your body can't solely rely on hormonal backups to remain healthy longterm, which is why diabetics get the deadly ketoacidosis. This is what I'm saying. There's a difference between crops not growing because they're not in season yet, and crops not growing because the ground has been salted.



    @1:27 "There's low amount of insulin, but it's still there."

    And as efficient as the human body is it's not 100% efficient; if you have some decent measure of bodyfat and you're on a ketogenic diet, you will have detectable amounts of ketones in your urine, especially if you're just starting. The amount that is detectable will lessen over time as your body adapts, but it won't be zero

    It could be Esther Baxter vs. Pat Morita in drag and half of this board would be like "black chicks don't really turn me on sooo..." - Randomnigga

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  • ShinjiGohanShinjiGohan Joined: Posts: 5,078 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Really, so you'll just ignore the videos above where Jerry Wards gf and clients have gone to the doctors and got their blood work done and the doctors didn't detect any ketones in the blood.

    Just flat out ignore actual blood work...

    You don't need diabetes to be at risk for ketoacidosis. Ketoacidosis is a metabolic state associated with high concentrations of ketone bodies, formed by the breakdown of fatty acids and the deamination of amino acids. The two common ketones produced in humans are acetoacetic acid and β-hydroxybutyrate.

    If you aren't using the ketones that you are creating by breaking down fats for energy then why are you even on keto to begin with? Just as its possible to have too much sugar in your blood which results in diabetes, its possible to have too many ketones in your blood.
  • white shadowwhite shadow WHAT'S MY NAME NYUKAH?!!! Joined: Posts: 13,402 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Really, so you'll just ignore the videos above where Jerry Wards gf and clients have gone to the doctors and got their blood work done and the doctors didn't detect any ketones in the blood.

    Just flat out ignore actual blood work...

    You don't need diabetes to be at risk for ketoacidosis. Ketoacidosis is a metabolic state associated with high concentrations of ketone bodies, formed by the breakdown of fatty acids and the deamination of amino acids. The two common ketones produced in humans are acetoacetic acid and β-hydroxybutyrate.

    If you aren't using the ketones that you are creating by breaking down fats for energy then why are you even on keto to begin with? Just as its possible to have too much sugar in your blood which results in diabetes, its possible to have too many ketones in your blood.

    I never said diabetes was the only way to get ketoacidosis, which is why I specifically said "diabetic ketoacidosis" when applicable. I'm also well aware that there are other factors that can trigger ketoacidosis (hyperthyroidism, alcoholism, etc.), which aren't the norm for a healthy human being. Just because you're in ketosis doesn't mean the average human is going to metabolize every microgram of ketones, especially when they've recently started the diet and haven't adjusted to it. I'm not talking about 6% body fat bodybuilders filling themselves up with various "supplements" and immense amounts of surplus protein, doing who-knows-what to their biochemistry, but average people losing weight with high-average levels of bodyfat.



    Those first 2 videos didn't really offer any noteworthy evidence of anything and the latter 2 didn't tell me anything new, so I didn't find it necessary to comment on.


    Funnily enough, the comment section was a lot more interesting:
    Everything you said from the start of the video to the end of the video was completely incorrect. First off, the mere removal of carbohydrates is not enough to put you in ketosis. How many grams of protein are you eating on your "keto" diet? There in lies your issue of why your strips are clear. Its not because you're magically burning off every micromole of ketones you're producing, its because you're producing and burning glucose via gluconeogenesis from your high protein intake.

    Second off, MCT oil prevents the break down of ketones? Really? I would suggest you pick up a used biochemistry textbook next time you get a chance, because this is a complete fabrication of human physiology. What actually happens, is that ketone bodies aren't like amino acids or sugars where we consume macromolecules that directly break down into the usable energy product.. Rather, they are produced via lipid metabolism. So it is completely incorrect to say that MCT oil would prevent you from burning ketones and much more accurate to say that MCT oil would be broken down into the said ketones to be burned off.

    And finally, MCT oil would cause ketoacidosis? This statement is 100% misinformed and frankly I expected better.

    Bolded the relevant part, which sounds much more logical.
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  • thurstthurst What's my age again? Joined: Posts: 11,511 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I lifted when I was on keto and felt fine. Doing judo while on keto was tough at first, but once my body adjusted my cardio came back and I was fine, too.
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  • ShinjiGohanShinjiGohan Joined: Posts: 5,078 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I never said diabetes was the only way to get ketoacidosis, which is why I specifically said "diabetic ketoacidosis" when applicable. I'm also well aware that there are other factors that can trigger ketoacidosis (hyperthyroidism, alcoholism, etc.), which aren't the norm for a healthy human being. Just because you're in ketosis doesn't mean the average human is going to metabolize every microgram of ketones, especially when they've recently started the diet and haven't adjusted to it. I'm not talking about 6% body fat bodybuilders filling themselves up with various "supplements" and immense amounts of surplus protein, doing who-knows-what to their biochemistry, but average people losing weight with high-average levels of bodyfat.
    and exactly how do you know how much protein that they're taking in? Or are you talking out of your ass again?
    Those first 2 videos didn't really offer any noteworthy evidence of anything and the latter 2 didn't tell me anything new, so I didn't find it necessary to comment on.
    except for the bloodwork which you ignored.
    Everything you said from the start of the video to the end of the video was completely incorrect. First off, the mere removal of carbohydrates is not enough to put you in ketosis. How many grams of protein are you eating on your "keto" diet? There in lies your issue of why your strips are clear. Its not because you're magically burning off every micromole of ketones you're producing, its because you're producing and burning glucose via gluconeogenesis from your high protein intake.

    Second off, MCT oil prevents the break down of ketones? Really? I would suggest you pick up a used biochemistry textbook next time you get a chance, because this is a complete fabrication of human physiology. What actually happens, is that ketone bodies aren't like amino acids or sugars where we consume macromolecules that directly break down into the usable energy product.. Rather, they are produced via lipid metabolism. So it is completely incorrect to say that MCT oil would prevent you from burning ketones and much more accurate to say that MCT oil would be broken down into the said ketones to be burned off.

    And finally, MCT oil would cause ketoacidosis? This statement is 100% misinformed and frankly I expected better.

    Bolded the relevant part, which sounds much more logical.

    [/quote]

    Pretty much assuming that he and his clients were all taking in 3x their body weight in protein then huh. So when you can't attack the facts you make up your own and then attack that position. There was a logically fallacy named after this, what was it again? Ah right the strawman.

    This isn't that complicated here. If you want to loose weight via ketosis, then the ketones you want to be burning off is your own body fat. Not MCT oils, not the 100 grams of unsaturated fat that you ate today. But that from your own body.

    But here you are thinking that you can stuff yourself with fat and MCT oils, let ketosis break it down into ketones but never actually use it up and let your blood saturate with ketones is a good thing.
  • maxxmaxx DIO THE DESTROYER Joined: Posts: 35,857 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
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  • white shadowwhite shadow WHAT'S MY NAME NYUKAH?!!! Joined: Posts: 13,402 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited June 27

    and exactly how do you know how much protein that they're taking in? Or are you talking out of your ass again?

    I think the real question is how do you know that they aren't, why should it be safer for me to assume that they're using every bit of ketones in their body? When you eat a normal diet your body has residual fats, proteins, and other nutrients that show up in your blood, urine, and stool. So I'm supposed to believe that the body will be 100% efficient at using ketones and only ketones until there isn't even a trace? Not only that, but the metabolic breakdown and uptake of ketones is so fast and efficient that it barely stays in the bloodstream to be detected? That would make our bodies in keto one of the most thermodynamically efficient mechanisms in existence, up there with photosynthesis.

    Logic would lead me (and many others in the comments) to believe that it's more likely they're not in keto, hence the lack of ketones in their bloodwork. It doesn't take 3x your body weight in protein to kick anyone out of keto, just higher than necessary amount. It happens quite often.

    You still haven't provided me with any sufficient facts, I don't know why you're getting so ornery. I never committed the "dreaded" strawman because I've pretty much attacked your arguments directly and simply disagreed based on a lack of direct evidence correlating they guy's statements and said results. Bloodwork and hearsay aren't enough for me to up and believe rather outlandish claims contradictory to what I've researched and experienced myself.

    In the past I've been on keto for months on end, doing HIIT, sprints and bar workouts and still have ketones show up, albeit not as much as when I started but still visibly there. Regardless, I've even stated that my initial advice was based on the assumption that he's just starting out keto, when the presence of ketones are generally much higher.
    This isn't that complicated here. If you want to loose weight via ketosis, then the ketones you want to be burning off is your own body fat. Not MCT oils, not the 100 grams of unsaturated fat that you ate today. But that from your own body.

    This is going in circles. Just because your body uses ketones for energy doesn't mean it won't show up on some level in your blood and to a lesser extent, urine. Otherwise, the many ordinary, often overweight people on the diet who use keto sticks to detect the ketones for dietary purposes would all be suffering from dire ketoacidosis and there would be alarm bells ringing in the fitness community. That obviously isn't the case.

    But here you are thinking that you can stuff yourself with fat and MCT oils, let ketosis break it down into ketones but never actually use it up and let your blood saturate with ketones is a good thing.

    Now this is an actual strawman. I never stated this.

    It could be Esther Baxter vs. Pat Morita in drag and half of this board would be like "black chicks don't really turn me on sooo..." - Randomnigga

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  • Bravo!Bravo! Joined: Posts: 167
    edited June 29
    How much would a decent weight bench cost in your opinion?
  • ShinjiGohanShinjiGohan Joined: Posts: 5,078 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG

    and exactly how do you know how much protein that they're taking in? Or are you talking out of your ass again?

    I think the real question is how do you know that they aren't, why should it be safer for me to assume that they're using every bit of ketones in their body? When you eat a normal diet your body has residual fats, proteins, and other nutrients that show up in your blood, urine, and stool. So I'm supposed to believe that the body will be 100% efficient at using ketones and only ketones until there isn't even a trace? Not only that, but the metabolic breakdown and uptake of ketones is so fast and efficient that it barely stays in the bloodstream to be detected? That would make our bodies in keto one of the most thermodynamically efficient mechanisms in existence, up there with photosynthesis.

    Logic would lead me (and many others in the comments) to believe that it's more likely they're not in keto, hence the lack of ketones in their bloodwork. It doesn't take 3x your body weight in protein to kick anyone out of keto, just higher than necessary amount. It happens quite often.

    You still haven't provided me with any sufficient facts, I don't know why you're getting so ornery. I never committed the "dreaded" strawman because I've pretty much attacked your arguments directly and simply disagreed based on a lack of direct evidence correlating they guy's statements and said results. Bloodwork and hearsay aren't enough for me to up and believe rather outlandish claims contradictory to what I've researched and experienced myself.

    In the past I've been on keto for months on end, doing HIIT, sprints and bar workouts and still have ketones show up, albeit not as much as when I started but still visibly there. Regardless, I've even stated that my initial advice was based on the assumption that he's just starting out keto, when the presence of ketones are generally much higher.

    But blood work is science and you are flat out ignoring science. Making up some idea that he and his clients all ate too much protein and kicked themselves out of keto. aka your strawman. A body builder and a personal trainer of over 25 years experience. This isn't some weekend gym goer like most of us, he takes it a lot more seriously than us. You literally changed the argument because you can't argue with the science of his blood work.

    This is going in circles. Just because your body uses ketones for energy doesn't mean it won't show up on some level in your blood and to a lesser extent, urine. Otherwise, the many ordinary, often overweight people on the diet who use keto sticks to detect the ketones for dietary purposes would all be suffering from dire ketoacidosis and there would be alarm bells ringing in the fitness community. That obviously isn't the case.

    Your body uses what it needs. You have over 2200 grams of fat in each pound of fat within your body. If you body needs 500 grams of fat it will break down 500 grams of fats. It won't keep on breaking down fats that you body doesn't need because you aren't active enough. If you only needed 100 grams of fats then that's what it'll break down.
    Now this is an actual strawman. I never stated this.

    You have been flat out saying that it doesn't matter how many ketones are in your bloodstream under the caveat of a working metabolic system. I'm calling BS on that.

  • BB_HoodyBB_Hoody Nice plane you have there. Be a Shame if something went wrong in flight and it crashed Joined: Posts: 4,640
    edited July 3
    Hey started working out again about a week back. Tomorrow will begin week 2. I work out 4 days a week 2 days working on arms shoulders and back. 2 days on legs. No cardio because, fuck cardio I don't like it. I prefer dumbells/free weights. But if I want to put on size and strength are barbell workouts a must? I.E Bench press squats etc.

    For nutrition

    Breakfast: Bowl of Cream of Wheat or Steel cut oatmeal made with milk, with walnuts, and blueberries or strawberries, cinnamon and honey. 2 scrambled eggs. Glass of OJ, and glass of water

    Post workout meal: 2 peanut butter jelly sandwhiches, glass of milk, and glass of water

    Lunch: 2 baked chicken legs, rice, and steamed broccoli or carrots. 2 glasses of water

    Dinner: Spahgetti or mac and cheese with a side of veggies, 16 oz of water

    snack: Protein bar, 2 glasses of water.

    I'm thinking of adding natural high protein pancakes to my diet to add more variety to breakfast. So any suggestions?