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The "Official" SSBM Thread.

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Comments

  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Items were basically removed for one reason: the explosive capsule.

    Items fall in predetermined places, but randomly into those places (aka there are dozens of spots where they can spawn on a given map, and spawn randomly at one of those). Most never really bothered to learn the specific spots, not like that's easy or anything. One of the problems is that, due to this randomness, they can really screw someone over. Not like "they get a beamsword" screw-over, but more of a "hey I was attacking and that capsule blew up in my face" screw over. This has the potential to cause huge upsets in matches, which is why items have been removed. No matter what items you have, you always have capsules, and capsules always have an 1/8 chance of exploding in your face. That's the main reason for banning items entirely. There were some other reasons, but that's the primary one.

    As for the fox-samus thing, I didn't realize he couldn't take down the reflector right after a shot... hadn't tested that and I'm not a fox player myself. Either way though, fox's speed is enough to get him around missiles.
  • white shadowwhite shadow WHAT'S MY NAME NYUKAH?!!! Joined: Posts: 13,932 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Funny thing is that my friend is just as good as me but his Fox still gets hits with missiles many times a match. I'm telling you if a Samus player knows how to alternate missiles wisely it's no problem. How is Fox going to dodge 2-3 varying projectiles constantly even with his agility?

    BTW, after spending 99.99% of my SSBM competitive play with Samus, I want to learn a new character... Dr.Mario. I saw Capt. Jack using him and I was VERY impressed, the problem is that I seem so used to Samus' excellent priority, projectile-based moves, and awesome recovery skills I have a problem playing him. Any strats, basic gameplan. I know you're supposed to spam the heck out of the pills a shffl the AFA but I still can't seem to own. And his recovery even with the cape and Dr.Tornado is a big turnoff. It amazes me how Jack can make him seem like his recovery is excellent but the I try it and... :sad:

    Also I rarely throw or roll because that is how Samus is played and I got too used to that style but I guess I'll learn to use those often again, any tips? Thanx in advance.:smile:
    It could be Esther Baxter vs. Pat Morita in drag and half of this board would be like "black chicks don't really turn me on sooo..." - Randomnigga

    " Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?!!!"- Wayne Brady from Chappelle's Show. LOL!!!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    The reason why CJ makes it look like Doc has good recovery is because his DI is good. DI means that you influence where a move sends you by holding a certain direction. For instance, if you're hit up and right and are pressing up and left at the moment you're hit you'll go up much more then you'll go right, which results in even Doc being able to survive from most things. Appart from that there's not much to Doc's recovery, it's one of the worst in the game.
  • SynikaLSynikaL Melee Prophet Joined: Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    That's the thing I hate about lower tier characters doing well in majors. They start getting all "poplular".

    :shudder:

    Aww well. There's always Mario.

    -Xplicit
    (Damn, I'm on a posting spree)
    "Grandad, this food is destructive!"
    "Boy, what is wrong with you? This food is your culture."
    "Then the culture's destructive."

    -The Boondocks
  • white shadowwhite shadow WHAT'S MY NAME NYUKAH?!!! Joined: Posts: 13,932 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    SynikaL wrote:
    That's the thing I hate about lower tier characters doing well in majors. They start getting all "poplular".

    :shudder:

    Aww well. There's always Mario.

    -Xplicit
    (Damn, I'm on a posting spree)

    Thanks Mr.Silver I DI with Dr.Mario ALWAYS but not even DI can save him from a Sheik AFA. :sad:

    SynikaL I've been using Samus since day 1, Wes just mademe wanna play Samus on a whole new level. I barely play with any of the top tiers apart from Marth and that's basically because I liked him in Fire Emblem the anime. :razzy: Fox is boring to me and Sheik is OK but seems too easy to win with. I play Sheik occasionallu but when I win I feel dirty because I barely try. :badboy:

    I play Falco also but nothing to run home about, it's Samus that I'm really good with... relatively speaking ofcourse. :rofl:

    The reason I want to play Doc is because Captain Jack showed off some very impressive juggles that make me reminisce about good ol' SSB64 where combos made the game more fun than SSBM. IM:bgrin:
    It could be Esther Baxter vs. Pat Morita in drag and half of this board would be like "black chicks don't really turn me on sooo..." - Randomnigga

    " Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?!!!"- Wayne Brady from Chappelle's Show. LOL!!!
  • TrueSephirothTrueSephiroth Joined: Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Million, where do you live, if you live around close to Wisconsin, maybe I could hit you up, and we could get some smashing going, so that your skills will improve, btw Sinykal, glad to see that your doing this to bring Smash into the light of other gamers;), if your wandering this is Hmoob Koob from smashboards, yes, I'm a Street Fighter boy;), anyways, I'll help try to answer some questions as well;).

    Edited: For your questions White Shadow, I'll try to help answer them as well, as the best to my ability, for I would like to say that I am more than the average Smash player, anyways, to your questions.

    I play Samus on occassion, and sorry if I'm not an expert on her (Link is my character of choice) but when I use her, I CC when I can, imo I say it's the best CC in the game, because even at 0%, characters will fly into the air, allowing Samus to follow up with a running shoulder tackle, short sex kick, F. Smash, and if they fly high, use Samus's Uair then, just a few sets of examples.

    Also, vary your missiles, and charge shots, don't just blindly spam them, but use them to your advantage, lure them to you, change between her homing missiles to her super missiles, Samus has a very powerful and high priority sex kick so if they jump over it, to take you in the air, lay them down with a sex kick, or else if you have a super shot fully charged, jump in the air and lay it to them.

    Although this is rarely done, because Samus can spawm her missiles, but if an opponent is knocked off the stage and trying to get back on, with Samus's bombing ability, she can jump off the stage and get in a sex kick or back kick, whenever I jump off the stage with Samus, I usually jump off backwards, looking away from the opponent, and use my Back kick or her spike to kill my opponent, why do I do this? Well, because that way I can hook shot back on stage, not all stages will allow you to do this, nor will all the stages will you be able to jump off, but a few will give you that opportunity, especially Final Destination.

    Just a few basic things about Samus, there's much more, but again, I'm not an advent Samus player, hope that helps alittle. Also, Shiek may seem very easy to win with, but at higher lvls, you have to really be good with her to win as well, believe me, it's easily to F tilt and aerial Fair intermediate players, but against higher players, easier said then done.

    Falco, it's about the short hop laser spamming<---I hate this btw, and getting in your spikes with the reflector. A simple, yet difficult combo to do for Falco is when your close to the opponent, reflector, jump, reflector, double jump sex kick, if you did it right, with the first reflector, the opponent should fly into the air, then jump with them, reflector again, and they should fly higher, double jump and sex kick;)

    Hope some of these help, again, I'm not the best with the characters your asking, as I'm more of the swordsman player, Link, Marth, and Roy are my guys;)
    "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi

    Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting - Ryu
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    hi... Ive just started getting into this game properly and was wondering what missile cancelling with samus is and how to do it?

    Also, have they taken samuses extended grapple on the PAL version?
  • white shadowwhite shadow WHAT'S MY NAME NYUKAH?!!! Joined: Posts: 13,932 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    hi... Ive just started getting into this game properly and was wondering what missile cancelling with samus is and how to do it?

    short hop, Foward tilt/smash B, then fast fall. The missile will be launched as soon as she lands and you can either wavedash run shoot another missile/big blast w/e.

    True Sephiroth, thanks for your help, much appreciated.:karate: In all honesty I do most of the stuff you posted though.:sweat:
    It could be Esther Baxter vs. Pat Morita in drag and half of this board would be like "black chicks don't really turn me on sooo..." - Randomnigga

    " Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?!!!"- Wayne Brady from Chappelle's Show. LOL!!!
  • MuskerMusker o_oU Joined: Posts: 213
    Most fast characters can fight in this game just because of jumping A. Rush in and Jumping A, L cancel, roll, repeat.

    I played the 64 one a LOT, but I played Melee as well during the first year it was out. I understand the game engine almost fully... but I'm wondering why Roy isn't rated up there with marth? Is it because his A moves are slower? I always thought Roy had a harder hit to him, but after watching some of the japanese guys go at it Marth vs Marth on that page that was posted, I See why marth is rated as high as he is. I was impressed that they could L cancel that well, but still nothing that I haven't seen before, or couldn't imagine them doing.

    ps.Who counters Fox?
    Two rules:
    Learn the system. Abuse it.
  • Ho0v-ManHo0v-Man Something clever Joined: Posts: 500
    Musker wrote:
    Most fast characters can fight in this game just because of jumping A. Rush in and Jumping A, L cancel, roll, repeat.

    I played the 64 one a LOT, but I played Melee as well during the first year it was out. I understand the game engine almost fully... but I'm wondering why Roy isn't rated up there with marth? Is it because his A moves are slower? I always thought Roy had a harder hit to him, but after watching some of the japanese guys go at it Marth vs Marth on that page that was posted, I See why marth is rated as high as he is. I was impressed that they could L cancel that well, but still nothing that I haven't seen before, or couldn't imagine them doing.

    ps.Who counters Fox?

    Actually, they can both do the exact same amount of damage. The thing that makes Marth better besides the obvious speed advantage is that Roy's maximum damage is dealt at the middle of his sword while Marth's is hit at the tip of his sword. Also, Sheik and Fox kinda counter each other.
    I don't have enough space for a really cool signature I found about vampire sex and whatnot. Screw you SRK...screw you.
  • N_paulN_paul aka Peaches Joined: Posts: 718
    I guess you could say that no one actually counters Fox, what with his crazy rushdown and everything. But he's also the most technical character in the game. Shiek is practically a fluke that wasn't supposed to be able to finish as easily, prehaps they didn't think about the whole D smash and fair thing. Not to mentio down throw. Yeah, Shiek's good, but so are Marth and Fox. I'm a Peach user myself, She can do the Float Cancel :P
  • SynikaLSynikaL Melee Prophet Joined: Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Marth is the closest thing to a Fox "counter" as it comes.

    Fox and Falco pretty much rape each other.
    H00v-Man wrote:
    Also, Sheik and Fox kinda counter each other.

    Please elaborate....


    -CynicaL
    "Grandad, this food is destructive!"
    "Boy, what is wrong with you? This food is your culture."
    "Then the culture's destructive."

    -The Boondocks
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I like playing as Roy over Marth. First thing you have to even know when playing seriously with him is what Marth has "over him". It's more than just his slower A moves, most of them are the same speed as Marth's coming out they just have worse recovery time on them.

    - speed. Roy is very slow compared to Marth. Both his initial dash and run is better than Roy's, most of the cast in the game for that matter besides the speed folks (Fox/Falcon).

    - grab/throws. Marth has better grab range. Last I checked, besides Kirby, Marth had the best grab range in the games minus characters who use projectiles (Links/Samus) or tongues (Yoshi).
    Roy isn't that bad though, he is right behind Marth.

    Roy's throws are stronger but this works against him as he can't chain grab or followed up techs to grab again that easy (or at all) compared to Marth and you're limited to what options you have to follow up after the throws cause he throws the opponent too far away. All of Marth's throws leads into the tip of his sword one way or another. Roy's only good throw over Marth's is his Up throw, which can kill at lower %s quicker but Marth's can lead into combos so that balances that out.

    - power. Someone sat down and did a test of all Roy/Marth attacks and the results were Marth did more damage overall in his attacks compared to Roy.

    But more importantly in this game, it's the knockback difference of these two. Hitting with the weak part of Marth's sword gives off about the same effect as hitting with the sweetspot of some of Roy's attacks while on the other hand hitting with the weak part of Roy's sword gives you little to no knockback at all. There are a few attacks of Roy's that are lenient like his fTilt and dSmash.

    Hitting with the sweetspot of Marth's fSmash has insane knockback. A tipped fTilt, uTilt knocks back pretty far as well.

    - weight. Roy seems heavier than Marth or he falls faster, one or the other so that makes his recovery worse when knocked off.

    Probably more stuff but that's the important stuff so yeah, Marth is much higher than Roy for a reason
  • Ho0v-ManHo0v-Man Something clever Joined: Posts: 500
    SynikaL wrote:


    Please elaborate....


    -CynicaL
    It's very similar to a Fox/Falco match how they rape each other. On the surface the match is kind of in Fox's favor, or so you'd think. The fact that Sheik is so good balances it out. It's kind of like Cable vs. Sentinel. You'd assume that Cable would just have this, but Sentinel is so versatile that the ownage goes either way anymore. Sheik is the best character for a reason. Regardless what opponent she faces, she always has some strategy against that character that ends in chain throw. But honestly, I've thought for a while that Sheik, Marth, and Fox should just be equal in the tiers. When they fight each other, it seems to come down to skill.
    I don't have enough space for a really cool signature I found about vampire sex and whatnot. Screw you SRK...screw you.
  • hanz0hanz0 Devil Hanzo Joined: Posts: 774
    smash brothers is a kiddy game move on, nothing to see here :confused:
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    What marth has over roy that no one seems to mention is bad character matchups.

    Marth has less "bad characters match up" and the bad character match ups for marth are incomparable to roys.


    The three characters that i can think of that beats roy semi-way more than any characters can beat marth are...

    Shiek (Advanced Shiek (Highly experience and no noobs) who understands the game and shiek rapes roy), Ice climber (Neo's idea, but I trust him since his roy is the best in the U.S.), Samus.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I love SSBM, it's tied with GGXX as favorite fighting game.

    But either way, I usually use Dr. Mario as my main character, and also Jigglypuff and Marth.

    Any tips for Marth? I'm not so hot with him...
  • SynikaLSynikaL Melee Prophet Joined: Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Ho0v-Man wrote:
    It's very similar to a Fox/Falco match how they rape each other. On the surface the match is kind of in Fox's favor, or so you'd think. The fact that Sheik is so good balances it out. It's kind of like Cable vs. Sentinel. You'd assume that Cable would just have this, but Sentinel is so versatile that the ownage goes either way anymore. Sheik is the best character for a reason. Regardless what opponent she faces, she always has some strategy against that character that ends in chain throw. But honestly, I've thought for a while that Sheik, Marth, and Fox should just be equal in the tiers. When they fight each other, it seems to come down to skill.


    ...Honestly.

    I'm not trying to be a dick here...but that post didn't tell me a damn thing about how "Shiek and Fox counter each other".

    I'd like to know exactly why you 'feel' the way you do about this matchup. That was just an over-generalized blanket contention.

    Can Shiek chain-grab Fox? Is Shiek easy to shine spike? I need some specifics. I'm not saying you're right/wrong, just curious as to why you feel this way.

    Again, sorry if that comes off as a bit 'prickish'.


    -Syn
    "Grandad, this food is destructive!"
    "Boy, what is wrong with you? This food is your culture."
    "Then the culture's destructive."

    -The Boondocks
  • Zan-kunZan-kun Joined: Posts: 293
    SSBM is freakin awesome.....

    Too bad its looked upon as a kiddy game.

    My best characters are Kirby and Capt Falcon. Kirby's throws freakin pwn especially playing a suicide Kirby :devil: . Its almost impossible to pull of in real play, but it can be done. Kirby is freakin fast with his wavedash, and l-canceled <A and down-A attacks can do some damage. He's too light though...

    I want to be the best Kirby player, at least in Texas. Too bad I hardly get to play against anyone. I'm a little rusty though since I've been on punishment for 12 weeks. All of my skillz are gone. They'll come back though.
    Aka Malajax on GGPO and elsewhere.
  • Ho0v-ManHo0v-Man Something clever Joined: Posts: 500
    SynikaL wrote:
    ...Honestly.

    I'm not trying to be a dick here...but that post didn't tell me a damn thing about how "Shiek and Fox counter each other".

    I'd like to know exactly why you 'feel' the way you do about this matchup. That was just an over-generalized blanket contention.

    Can Shiek chain-grab Fox? Is Shiek easy to shine spike? I need some specifics. I'm not saying you're right/wrong, just curious as to why you feel this way.

    Again, sorry if that comes off as a bit 'prickish'.


    -Syn

    No prob. I realize I did in fact lack specifics in my last post. Fox is a fast-faller. So the fact of the matter is that Sheik has a little bit of a hard time chain-throwing Fox at low percentages. And chain-throwing is Sheik's main game. That's why Fox counters Sheik.

    Fox needs to get in to land a hit to win. Sheik has the tools to keep him from doing that. Needles, down-smash, and well-timed up tilts neutralize his rushdown. Doing any of these things the right way gets that percentage high enough so Sheik can chain-throw Fox 'til the cows come home (come to think of it...I live in Alabama and I don't even know what that phrase means.). That's why Sheik counters Fox.

    Hope I got it that time. :tup:
    I don't have enough space for a really cool signature I found about vampire sex and whatnot. Screw you SRK...screw you.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Does anyone know what the differences are between the PAL and the NTSC versions?
  • N_paulN_paul aka Peaches Joined: Posts: 718
    I don't know where to find specifics, but I hear the thing they changed most was Shiek's dthrow(or at least one of the most substantial things)..
    And some charcters specs are different, I think Bowser is heavier or something. A couple of glitches were removed from the game, not sure which ones. I have heard it's more balanced though.

    EDIT: perhaps I should put in something concrete. Once a shiek gets Fox off (particularly with a fair because of his fastfall) he's pretty much dead because his recovery is horrid. Probably one of Foxes harder matchups. I don't know much about Fox myself, so I'm not really sure what his greatest weapons against a Shiek are.

    I'd say one of the better ways to counter a Shiek is Peach. Turnips aren't so important, but it's Peach's float game that makes it harder for a sheik. I'm not too familiar with topend play. I just know a lot of stats and can do some technical stuff. I do understand the physics though.

    For instance, the wavedash is simply an airdodge into the ground. Depending on weight and traction (mostly traction) the character will slide a certain length. Of course, if you crouch cancel or run you stop sliding. Most notable is Luigi of course. Also, if you tilt the stick at more of a down slant, your wavedash will go a shorter distance.

    Crouch canceling is another important aspect of the physics, you basically slide less if you are lowering your center of gravity (ie crouching). most notable with samus. Also, try doing it against Roy's dancing blade moves. It'll often stop it dead.

    Of course, all physics are different for each character. Weight doesn't necessarily make a charcter fall faster, and traction is always something to think about. Most interesting traction is the Ice Climbers. They seem to have better traction on "icy" surfaces.

    That's just a bunch of useless stuff that comes from knowing the game. Hope I didn't get anything wrong. Oh, and smashboards.com is an excellent source.
  • MuskerMusker o_oU Joined: Posts: 213
    Shine? O_o
    Two rules:
    Learn the system. Abuse it.
  • Janitor NedJanitor Ned Joined: Posts: 139
    Shine refers to Fox using his Reflector Shield at point blank range so it shocks the opponent. It can be used to spike the opponent into a KO.

    Btw, I play Ganondorf.
  • SynikaLSynikaL Melee Prophet Joined: Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Bring Up My Post :p



    -CynIcaL
    "Grandad, this food is destructive!"
    "Boy, what is wrong with you? This food is your culture."
    "Then the culture's destructive."

    -The Boondocks
  • AlphaDragoonAlphaDragoon ._. Joined: Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I haven't played SSBM in awhile, brings back memories. I used to post a lot on Smash Boards (until I started coming here, lol).

    Anyway, my main guy is Roy (who I still say is better folks think he is...). I just like how he's played (before anybody brings the whole "Marth is teh R0X0Rz" garbage) and I do pretty decent with him. But since I'm not a "competitive player" I never mastered L-cancel, WD and such.

    BTW to those of you who still visit Smash Boards regularly, what ever happened w/the Ranking Project? Is it still ongoing or what?
    Spirit Juice on a new SE game:
    "If it's not Xenogears Episode IV I don't give a fuck what Square-Enix does."
  • SynikaLSynikaL Melee Prophet Joined: Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    A few members made a site devoted to developing a ranking project:

    http://s4.invisionfree.com/ssbmrpritt/index.php?act=idx


    ...unfortunately the place is a desserted wasteland. It'll more than likely never amount to anything.If I had my way, the RP would have been put together at smashboards -- the heart of the community.


    -Syn
    "Grandad, this food is destructive!"
    "Boy, what is wrong with you? This food is your culture."
    "Then the culture's destructive."

    -The Boondocks
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I've decided to try and get into this game seriously, however, I'd like to play Ness. Any tips somebody can give me? And yeah, I'm in the process of checking Smashboards now. =)
  • SynikaLSynikaL Melee Prophet Joined: Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    That's awesome you decided to give the game a shot. Smash and a Cube go considerably cheap nowadays. Good luck.

    Dunno much about Ness, though he used to be my main when I first started playing the game (I can't believe what Hal did to him in the transition from the first game ;_;).

    Learn to DJC (Double Jump Cancel). A technique used by Mewtwo, Peach and Ness. You simply cancel your first jump by jumping twice in a quick succession. This helps make Ness more mobile while in the air. Back Throw is a good kill move, so is back aerial....unfortunately that's all I got >_<. You said you where checking out Smashboards, so that should be your first order of businiess. Good luck again!


    -SynikaL
    "Grandad, this food is destructive!"
    "Boy, what is wrong with you? This food is your culture."
    "Then the culture's destructive."

    -The Boondocks
  • TrueSephirothTrueSephiroth Joined: Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Yeah, Shine Combo's are very overrated, but they are still broken, by overrated, I mean that although it can kill extremely low at 45%, it's extremely difficult to do, so until I start seeing the Top Fox player's use shine combo's for more than half the time of there gameplay and use it consistantly where they can do it on cue, much like an infinite with Magneto in MvC2, then I will see it as more of a threat.

    However, it's very powerful and it is a broken tatic that Fox can wield...but I really hate his Up Smash above all of his other moves, this is probably one of the most overpowered moves in the game, along with Peache's downward smash and Marth's tip shot's. Alpha, it's cool to see you try and pick up this game, I won't lie to you though, your in for a tough road, as Ness wasn't as grand as his original SSB ver. and he's difficult to use at a high lvl, but I will definetly commend you if you can take Ness to that lvl;)...that is what I plan to do with my Link, I'm so sick of getting 5th place, as that's the highest I've ever taken Link to in a tournament, I have yet to make him in the Top 3 at the tournies that I attend too, so it goes to show just how much more I must learn. :karate:
    "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi

    Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting - Ryu
  • SynikaLSynikaL Melee Prophet Joined: Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Yeah, Shine Combo's are very overrated, but they are still broken, by overrated, I mean that although it can kill extremely low at 45%, it's extremely difficult to do, so until I start seeing the Top Fox player's use shine combo's for more than half the time of there gameplay and use it consistantly where they can do it on cue, much like an infinite with Magneto in MvC2, then I will see it as more of a threat.

    LOL

    You should download some vids of Mofos' Fox...

    He crazy.


    -Syn
    "Grandad, this food is destructive!"
    "Boy, what is wrong with you? This food is your culture."
    "Then the culture's destructive."

    -The Boondocks
  • TrueSephirothTrueSephiroth Joined: Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I've seen them, it's great, but as I said, it's not what makes Fox good, he's got other things that already make him good. His shine combos are still overrated, because they aren't implemented alot into top fox players yet, unless it's utilized as much as Magneto's infinites or combo reset's, and by I mean by that, it must become Fox's game in order for him to win, which on majority of the Fox players, it's only very situational, it's still a good tatic to learn though;)
    "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi

    Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting - Ryu
  • SynikaLSynikaL Melee Prophet Joined: Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Sorry Koob but you're wrong.


    If a Fox isn't utilizing shine combos, then that Fox isn't top. Shine is one of the best moves in the game. It's an anti shield grab that can lead to combos. If we'd been having this discussion before TG6 last year, then you'd have a decent point. But any Fox player worth his salt today utilizes Shine combos where ever applicable (read: alot of places).

    Sorry, but you need to play/watch better Foxes.


    -Syn
    (and stop trying to compare everything to Capcom games. it doesn't help your arguments at all)
    "Grandad, this food is destructive!"
    "Boy, what is wrong with you? This food is your culture."
    "Then the culture's destructive."

    -The Boondocks
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    My Luigi is the best in the world...
  • TrueSephirothTrueSephiroth Joined: Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    SynikaL wrote:
    Sorry Koob but you're wrong.


    If a Fox isn't utilizing shine combos, then that Fox isn't top. Shine is one of the best moves in the game. It's an anti shield grab that can lead to combos. If we'd been having this discussion before TG6 last year, then you'd have a decent point. But any Fox player worth his salt today utilizes Shine combos where ever applicable (read: alot of places).

    Sorry, but you need to play/watch better Foxes.


    -Syn
    (and stop trying to compare everything to Capcom games. it doesn't help your arguments at all)

    Wow, I must have popped someone's bubble, show me a video where a Fox players uses the shine combo for more than 60% of his gameplay, and it better be ALOT of the Top Fox players. Yes it can lead to combos, but he has other tatics that can already lead him to combos, also I've watched CJ and Masahi play Fox so I guess these guys aren't "top" especially Masashi with Fox... :rolleyes: . I've even watched Isai's Fox as well, and he doesn't go on a rampage with the shine combo. It's still very situational. Also what's wrong with comparing it to another fighting game to prove a point? It actually helps alot, because I'm comparing the two as to state my reason, in other fighting games, what makes a character good is something that they have which they can abuse ALOT, Yun has Genei-Jin it's a MUST HAVE and a MUST MASTER if you choose another super art over Genei-Jin then Yun is no longer Top Tier, Misturugi in SC2, kB2 makes him very good and it's a MUST HAVE for his gameplay, Jin in T4 it's all about landing the JFLS on counter-hit and it's a MUST HAVE, in GG Sol's got his ridiculous Dust Loops that is a MUST HAVE, given they where nerfed slightly for XX Reload. If you want me to choose from something that's not from a different fighting game, alright then;), Falco's short hop laser spam is a MUST HAVE because it will set him up for many things, mainly to come to the enemy, and allow to use reflector's into his spikes or else his air game with the reflector. We see this alot, as all Top Falco players spam the laser hopping pratically everychance they can get.

    Foxes entire gameplay doesn't revolve around "shine combos" which is why I signify it as overrated. You make it sound like as though I said Foxes shine combo's "aren't good" and "aren't used at all", yes, they are extremely good and they are still used. However what I'm saying is I don't see Fox players killing everyone in 45% damage in the majority of the matches I've played up against, and watched, I don't see Fox players doing shine combos ALL THE TIME, because if all Fox players utilized the Shine Combo as much as you say or give it credit for, he'd be above Shiek, instead of having Shiek above him, because the shine combo is that dangerous where if it was used that much, it would make Fox a far more dangerous character than Shiek.

    Once your hit, your pretty screwed unless the player screws up, which can and will happen. The shine combos are powerful, I didn't deny that, heck, he'd still own even if he didn't have the shine combos just because of how fast and overpowered he is. He's got short hop's with neutral a, there fast and powerful. He even has the laser spamming which can rack up solid percentage, his godly Up Smash(imo one of the broken moves in the game because of it's speed, protection, recovery, and yes damage and k.o. potential), his running attack, to how long it lags, the damage and combo potential from this, and alot of characters can easily get Up smash afterwards because they are airborne and they can't even recover...yes, this is just alittle spectrum of his potentials and what he can do, shine combo is also one of them, but Foxes game is not built entirely on shine combos, thus the reason why I say they are overrated, I don't overrate it on it's power, don't get me wrong there, I just overrate it that it isn't used as much as people claim it to be.

    It's situational and there is not that many situations to utilize it, otherwise I'd be seeing Masashi whip shine combo's all the time since Fox is his main character, and to how hard it is to actually shine combo correctly adds to why it isn't utilized all the time. I'm not overrating it's power and uses, it's definetly there, however I'm saying it's overrated because it's not used into Foxes game as much as it's being said. If you can prove me wrong, that Fox NEED'S shine combos in order to be Top Tier, and that Fox NEED'S shine combos because it is the foundation of his gameplay, meaning that a Fox player will use Shine Combo's in almost everysingle situation given to them, I'm more than happy to change my views...don't go all ape on me now;)
    "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi

    Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting - Ryu
  • SynikaLSynikaL Melee Prophet Joined: Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    What the crap? I'm not reading all that, sorry. Your posts are just too long, I'm sure you can manage to get your point across with less content.

    But it's more than obvious you don't know what you're talking about.

    You cite Masashi's Fox as an example? Ha ha. Masashi is considered to be one of the worst Fox's that actually win. Everyone hates Masashi's Fox lol.

    Shine is very essential to Fox's game. Sorry if you don't realize that.

    *shrugs*


    -CynIcaL
    "Grandad, this food is destructive!"
    "Boy, what is wrong with you? This food is your culture."
    "Then the culture's destructive."

    -The Boondocks
  • TrueSephirothTrueSephiroth Joined: Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Show's just how conceited you are, and yes, I do type alot, but I'm explaining my reasons as to why it's overrated. To say the least, Masashi would destroy you with his Fox, and if you didn't notice, I also mentioned Captain Jack, and he's an excellent Fox player. I never said Foxes shine combo's weren't "effective" because you seem to narrow yourself to believe that's what I'm implying, what I'm saying I'm saying is that it's overrated because it's only situational, because if it was used for almost the majority of the Fox player's gameplay, wouldn't you think shine combo's would be displayed more in matches?

    Fox would be over Shiek, if Shine Combo's where abused tremendously, however THEY ARE NOT. The reason why I said it's overrated because you don't need to shine combo to win all the time, and this reads true in all the matches, download all the top Fox players, and you'll notice how shine combo's are used situationally only. Download a video of Magneto in MvC2 and watch how much Mag's gameplay has the triangle jump incorporated into it, download a video of a game even you like to play, GG and watch the top Sol Players utilize the Dust Loops, why do I post these, because to show you that these are essential to there gameplan, and without it, they wouldn't be as great, take away Mag's triangle jump and his gameplay falls by alot because he can't be a dominant pressure player also tons of his arsenal would be gone without it, take away Sol's high damaging ridiculous dust loops and he's going to go down, because this is where he can land big damage. If you took away Foxes shine combo's he's still a monster even without it and would still be top tier nonetheless, catch my point, I hope so.

    You still have YET to PROVE to me or show me someone who uses Foxes shine combos in more than half of his gameplay...even I'm on DC+++ and I have yet to download and see a vid where shine combo's is displayed as the #1 key to Foxes victory. Shine combo's are still situational, you can't spam it like Falco's laser spamming, which is ESSENTIAL and is a MUST HAVE and MUST DO because without the short hop laser spamming Falco gameplan would fall by many notches, I've seen many matches where a shine wasn't even pulled off, and if it was, it was only used at certain times, and yet the Fox player wins the victory. If you can't comprehend what I'm saying.

    *shrugs*
    "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi

    Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting - Ryu
  • white shadowwhite shadow WHAT'S MY NAME NYUKAH?!!! Joined: Posts: 13,932 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    ^ That's true. Most "awesome" stuff with Fox is mostly theoretical and rarely used in gameplay except in the most perfect of circumstances. I've seen too many *recent* Fox match vids to notice this.

    Go on Smashboards and everybody will be like, "OMG Shine combos/infinites rulorz!1!11!!!" and they do... they just require a technical mastery that no top player has shown to me consistently (minus training mode).
    It could be Esther Baxter vs. Pat Morita in drag and half of this board would be like "black chicks don't really turn me on sooo..." - Randomnigga

    " Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?!!!"- Wayne Brady from Chappelle's Show. LOL!!!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Nj Kotc - Smash !!!!!

    On May 14 we will be hosting a SSBM event. If you have what it takes, this is the place to be.

    www.njhalo.com/smash
  • TrueSephirothTrueSephiroth Joined: Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Awesome, where's that tournie at? Hopefully not too far from where I live:)...is it in Minnesota?
    "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi

    Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting - Ryu
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