*** Misconceptions of the SF4 Game System Mechanics - GREAT READ ***

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  • walnut shrimpwalnut shrimp Joined: Posts: 375
    I didn't see this mentioned under trip guard properties. If you do an empty jump, there are a few frames where even if you crouch block, you're still as tall as if you are standing.

    I notice this a lot trip guarding with Chun's st. fierce and st. roundhouse... both of them tend to whiff on crouching opponents, but if they empty jump, they'll be forced to block even if they are holding down-back.
  • wrrzawrrza CHINGCHONG Joined: Posts: 553
    I didn't see this mentioned under trip guard properties. If you do an empty jump, there are a few frames where even if you crouch block, you're still as tall as if you are standing.

    I notice this a lot trip guarding with Chun's st. fierce and st. roundhouse... both of them tend to whiff on crouching opponents, but if they empty jump, they'll be forced to block even if they are holding down-back.

    same with high tiger shots on wakeup. usually they go over you but on wake-up you're forced to block it even if you're down-back.
  • PigJazzPigJazz Not the Face Joined: Posts: 37
    If you could hit a button 60 times a second, would you be able to do every link perfectly? Or does the game impose some kind of penalty on you for attempting a link too early?
  • JohnickJohnick Joined: Posts: 229
    I wanted to main Ryu in the game but kept getting EX Shoryu coming out instead of my Ultra whenever I tried any FADC setups, was so bad it made me switch to Akuma, just went into training a minute ago after reading this and noticed I never miss hiss corner crouching short -> EX Tatsu -> Ultra setup cause you have so long to buffer the Ultra. Now when I try Shoryu -> FADC -> Ultra, I find I get the Ultra and a lot less EX Shoryu's come out, but the Ultra is usually too late and flys over their body. If I try and do it any faster, its back to EX Shoryu again, GAH!!! :shake:
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    I wanted to main Ryu in the game but kept getting EX Shoryu coming out instead of my Ultra whenever I tried any FADC setups, was so bad it made me switch to Akuma, just went into training a minute ago after reading this and noticed I never miss hiss corner crouching short -> EX Tatsu -> Ultra setup cause you have so long to buffer the Ultra. Now when I try Shoryu -> FADC -> Ultra, I find I get the Ultra and a lot less EX Shoryu's come out, but the Ultra is usually too late and flys over their body. If I try and do it any faster, its back to EX Shoryu again, GAH!!! :shake:

    Do a Tiger Knee motion for the last fireball motion. The reason EX Shoryus come out for most people is that they hit the buttons TOO EARLY. If you hit the buttons before you reach the last input on the joystick, the only "code" that can be recognized by the game is the Uppercut Motion, so the Shoryu comes out instead:

    :d::df::r::d::df:

    The last three inputs here are the DP code. So if you hit the buttons one input too early, the Shoryu registers. And the problem is, EVERYONE'S tendency is to hit the buttons too early. So what I've learned to do is "Tiger Knee" the last fireball. So I do:

    :d::df::r::d::df::r::uf: + :3p:

    Because of the natural tendency to hit buttons too early, you'll actually hit the buttons ON TIME. And you can cancel the pre-jump frames into a Special Move so even if you hit them on time, the Ultra comes out instead of the Jump anyhow.

    Using that method has helped my success rate on the Ultra tremendously. Try it out and see if it works for you.

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

    (AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
  • TheliTheli Joined: Posts: 1,586
    If you could hit a button 60 times a second, would you be able to do every link perfectly? Or does the game impose some kind of penalty on you for attempting a link too early?

    There is no designed penalty, I think. However, there is the question of if the game is capable of recognizing a button press for the same button every 60th of a second. Or if it would just think that the button is being held down for the entire time. This might be the reason that plinking is almost always superior to double-tapping. It would have the capability to get around this technical limitation, if that limitation does actually exist.

    “That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”

  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,181
    The first hit of Dhalsims EX yoga fire causes float knockdown isntead of standard knockdown when it hits anti-air and counterhit.

    The last hit of Dan's super causes the opponent to fall in a much lower arc if it is a counterhit.

    Anti-Air Counterhit Lvl.2 FA causes the same thwirling animation that CH TU has.
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Combo Hunter", A Street Fighter V Season 2 Combo Video
  • CYBORG COPCYBORG COP CYBER COP Joined: Posts: 435 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    How does super/ultra freeze work in this game? The frame tables list 1 + X (some number) for every super/ultra in the game, with frame 1 always being invincible. What does this notation mean? Is there a translation from the Japanese guides?
  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,181
    That one frame is when the freeze happens.
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Combo Hunter", A Street Fighter V Season 2 Combo Video
  • CYBORG COPCYBORG COP CYBER COP Joined: Posts: 435 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    There's more to it than that though. Here's my thoughts.

    For most supers, the the game advances by 1 frame in slow motion during the dark screen. You can visually see this happening. This doesn't seem to apply to grab supers like Raging Demon and Zangief's FAB. If a fireball is 1 frame away from connecting when you activate super, the fireball will actually connect during the dark screen. The opponent can however block (high or low) during the dark screen even if he wasn't already blocking (proof that blocking high or low is instant?). No other action is allowed during the dark screen. Also, you know how if Chun Li goes for chip super, you have no choice but to block, i.e. you cannot counter out of it even if you are in neutral. Chun's super is 1+1 startup, suggesting that you can't do anything but block for at least 1 additional frame after dark screen.

    Ultras (and the previously mentioned grab supers) are different because the frame advance does not occur during the dark screen. It seems like the frame advance occurs after the dark screen (I forget the details of how I tested that, will get back to you). And there doesn't seem to be any rule about only being able to block during/after the dark screen like with supers. So what's the significance of writing 1+X for the startup number; you could just clump the 1 and the X together. There's some unknown meaning behind that 1 frame.
  • CYBORG COPCYBORG COP CYBER COP Joined: Posts: 435 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    To verify that the frame advance occurs AFTER the dark screen for ultras:

    With EMPTY ULTRA and FULL SUPER bars, I recorded Seth doing LP fireball from full screen. Just before it connects, activate super with 3P (super comes out because ultra is empty). The fireball connects during the dark screen.

    Now with FULL ULTRA bar, play it back. He will activate ultra in place of super (but with the exact same timing), and you can see that the fireball connects AFTER the dark screen. Also, note that you can mash ultra/super/whatever to avoid the fireball, so you can do more than just block immediately following the dark screen.
  • BowlofwaterBowlofwater CptCharisma Joined: Posts: 67
    does anyone know a good threat or post on understanding throws. like its properties and stuff on waking up after jumps in empty or attacking, throwing ppl when they are jabbing. like i have bad habit of thinking i can mash low jab to get out of throws, and apparently throws r invincible to it or something. i dunno, sigh
  • SinisterMephistoSinisterMephisto Joined: Posts: 13
    Charge Time
    This is not a that big of a misconception, but many people/sites say that charge moves take 2 seconds to fully charge up. However, almost all charge moves (with the exception of Vega who has 42-frames and 60-frames for his move set) require 55 frames of charge. And since the game engine runs at 60 frames per second, it actually requires less than a second for gaining the charge.

    where did the 2 seconds come from?
  • john4pjohn4p Joined: Posts: 817
    where did the 2 seconds come from?
    Here's the SF2 US manual: replacementdocs: Downloads / / Street Fighter II

    Excerpt from Guile's page (Sonic Boom description): "Using the control pad, press :l: and hold it for 2 seconds. Then press :r: and push any punch button."

    Dunno if this wrong information already was in the original Japanese manual as well.


    edit: Note that in this manual it's explicitely written: "A student of Master Sheng Long, Ryu has developed into a pure warrior."
  • m16ghostm16ghost Joined: Posts: 1,810
    Does anybody know if there's a frame of throw invulnerability following block or hit stun?

    Bison's cr.jab is +2 on block, yet it's possible to whiff a tick throw point blank following the jab. I'm sure this happens with other characters that have +2 moves as well.
  • CYBORG COPCYBORG COP CYBER COP Joined: Posts: 435 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I tested this a while back while off-topic in a Hakan thread, lol. Basically, you become invulnerable to throws for 2 frames anytime you become eligible for a reversal, i.e. leaving blockstun/hitstun, waking up, or landing on your feet after being hit out of the air. You forfeit this invincibility if you do an ultra or super. Consequently, a reversal SPD from Zangief is unthrowable because it is 2 frames startup. But reversal Yoga Catastrophe, LP/HP Abel supers, and even Angry Scar remain 100% vulnerable to grabs.
  • m16ghostm16ghost Joined: Posts: 1,810
    I tested this a while back while off-topic in a Hakan thread, lol. Basically, you become invulnerable to throws for 2 frames anytime you become eligible for a reversal, i.e. leaving blockstun/hitstun, waking up, or landing on your feet after being hit out of the air. You forfeit this invincibility if you do an ultra or super. Consequently, a reversal SPD from Zangief is unthrowable because it is 2 frames startup. But reversal Yoga Catastrophe, LP/HP Abel supers, and even Angry Scar remain 100% vulnerable to grabs.

    Hm thanks. What scenarios did you test? I was trying to come up with other possible theories as to why this would happen.

    That implies that in AE, EX-GH-> spd would whiff, because the opponent would be throw invulnerable for two frames following the +1 on hit EX-GH.
  • CYBORG COPCYBORG COP CYBER COP Joined: Posts: 435 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I might try it again to be sure, but if I remember correctly...

    To test wakeup, I did a meaty raging demon on Gief. If he does reversal spd (2 frames), the spd wins every time. Then I replaced Gief with Hakan's spd (3 frames) and the Demon won every time.

    To test landing, I reset Gief/Hakan out of the air into a meaty raging demon, and the results were the same.

    I tested by trial and error for blockstun/hitstun. I took a move that was +2 on hit (like someone's cr.LP), then tried to see if I could get a normal throw to whiff. It did. Same thing for block. Then I tested with +1 on hit/block and no matter how many times I tried I couldn't get a whiff. Remember, normal throws are active on frames 3 and 4, so even if the opponent is throw invincible on frame 3, he can still get grabbed on frame 4 if the invincibility wears off.

    Insert a reversal super or ultra in any of those situations to see that it forfeits the throw invulnerability.

    Also, if you have access to those hitbox videos, in the video that demos Cody's Bad Spray, i believe you can see 2 frames on wakeup with no blue (grabbable) hurtbox.
  • CYBORG COPCYBORG COP CYBER COP Joined: Posts: 435 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    That implies that in AE, EX-GH-> spd would whiff, because the opponent would be throw invulnerable for two frames following the +1 on hit EX-GH.

    You would have to delay the spd of course.
  • m16ghostm16ghost Joined: Posts: 1,810
    I might try it again to be sure, but if I remember correctly...

    To test wakeup, I did a meaty raging demon on Gief. If he does reversal spd (2 frames), the spd wins every time. Then I replaced Gief with Hakan's spd (3 frames) and the Demon won every time.

    To test landing, I reset Gief/Hakan out of the air into a meaty raging demon, and the results were the same.

    I tested by trial and error for blockstun/hitstun. I took a move that was +2 on hit (like someone's cr.LP), then tried to see if I could get a normal throw to whiff. It did. Same thing for block. Then I tested with +1 on hit/block and no matter how many times I tried I couldn't get a whiff. Remember, normal throws are active on frames 3 and 4, so even if the opponent is throw invincible on frame 3, he can still get grabbed on frame 4 if the invincibility wears off.

    Insert a reversal super or ultra in any of those situations to see that it forfeits the throw invulnerability.

    Also, if you have access to those hitbox videos, in the video that demos Cody's Bad Spray, i believe you can see 2 frames on wakeup with no blue (grabbable) hurtbox.

    Good stuff. I was trying to figure out good tests for the hit and blockstun, and I was playing around with Fei's command grab, and I basically came to the same results you did. I didn't think of doing meaty demon setups or checking Cody's bad spray video though, that is pretty brilliant.
  • safira218safira218 Joined: Posts: 2
    ur soul is mine

    Akuma can Far HK -> Far HK/Sweep (First one has to hit once)
    Akuma can Cr.MP -> Far HK
    Bison can HK -> HK
    Chun Li can F.HK to Ultra so i hear (Haven't seen or tested it)

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  • DaveTheRaveDaveTheRave DaveTheRave Joined: Posts: 86
    I've read thru and can't find it on the post so sorry if I'm mistaken. The DRagon punch shortcut Iactually use is tap forward then tap diagonal down. The shortcut for crouching dragons is to slide joystick forward back forward whilst crouching. I've also noticed that there are loads of shortcuts in the game, can someone post a link to someone who has mastered them al.
  • QmangxboxliveQmangxboxlive Joined: Posts: 31
    2012 ae yun juggle
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