Tekken 6 Tier List?

.Cobra.Cobra Winds Of MadnessJoined: Posts: 2,554
Was just wondering if there was a somewhat accurate tier list for it? I've looked around and can't find one.

PGFX Kiu, AKA "Wesker".
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Comments

  • JarekovJarekov Thou Art A Bear Joined: Posts: 1,995
    http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=114839

    As of October 06, 2009:

    A+ = Steve, Law, Bob
    AAA = Bryan, Paul, Julia, Lars, Lili
    AA = Bruce, Baek, King (says NIN), Jack, Eddy, Feng, Nina
    A- = Roger, A.King, Heihachi, Kaz, D.Jin, Christie, Anna, Miguel, Leo, Lee, Alisa
    B+ = Lei, Dragunov, Marduk, Jin, Asuka, Ganryu,
    B = Hwo, Ling, Wang
    B- = Yoshimitsu. Raven, Bears
    C+ = Mokujin. Zafina

    Idk i think this list is fucked up, bryan is too beastly not to be in the top, i think Kazuya should be on the same plain as paul and lars because of his punishment and good spacing.
  • yah yaahh b*tch!yah yaahh b*tch! thats my b*tch Joined: Posts: 5,963
    So you couldnt seem to find one on Wikipedia or Tekkenzaibatsu? I mean it just took me 5 seconds to google "Tekken 6 tier list" and Google was already auto-spelling the rest of the sentence.


    Whatever.

    A+ = Steve Fox, Marshall Law, Bob
    AAA = Bryan Fury, Paul Phoenix, Julia Chang, Lars Alexandersson, Emily "Lili" Rochefort
    AA = Bruce Irving, Baek Doo San, King, Jack-6, Eddy Gordo, Feng Wei, Nina Williams
    A- = Roger Jr., Armor King, Heihachi Mishima, Kazuya Mishima, Devil Jin, Christie Montiero, Anna Williams, Miguel Caballero Rojo, Leo Kliesen, Lee Chaolan, Alisa Bosconovich
    B+ = Lei Wulong, Sergei Dragunov, Craig Marduk, Jin Kazama, Asuka Kazama, Ganryu
    B = Hwoarang, Ling Xiaoyu, Wang Jinrei
    B- = Yoshimitsu, Raven, Kuma, Panda
    C+ = Mokujin, Zafina
  • Minerva_SCMinerva_SC Get on my level Joined: Posts: 1,684
    outside of the top 3, you're gonna have a hard time getting a tier list that everyone can agree upon (japan, korea, u.s., ect). outside the top 3 it gets pretty inconsistent, atleast for the top 10 or so, but I guess thats to be expected from a game with so many characters. I think the only thing everyone can agree on s the bottom, aka zafina, yosh, raven, bears.
  • DillyDilly Joined: Posts: 294
    Only thing that stops bryan from being top is how much he loses on non-wall stages.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    geez, i knew Ling took a hit, but i didnt think she was THAT lower tier
  • yah yaahh b*tch!yah yaahh b*tch! thats my b*tch Joined: Posts: 5,963
    Oh be quiet already.

    The bottom tier is "C" for a reason. EVERYONE is competitive. In any other game c-tier is middle tier, it was very intentional to list the tiers like that. The bottom tier is only relative to the roster, not the actual engine, but the game is still fairly balanced with Zafina being the worst.

    And yes, wall-game plays a big part in tiers. You find that AA and up WRECK HAVOC on stages with walls. Most of them having combos that carry you alllllll the way to the edge of the ring. Tekken 6 is worse than SF in that getting pinned between a wall is gonna be a wrap on that ass.

    That list makes perfect sense, aside from a little fuzziness between AA and A.


    Its not really worth stressing the whole "I think ___ should be higher than _____" crap. Everybody is decent.
  • Sleepy ZeroSleepy Zero The Other Lee Player Joined: Posts: 545
    ::face palm:: God that tier list is bad.

    Bob and Steve are not Top 3. I doubt they are even Top 10.

    Here is a more accurate tier list.

    A: Law, Bruce, Lili, Baek, Nina, Julia, Bryan, Alisa, King, Steve
    B+: A. King, Kazuya, Heihachi, Bob, Jack-6, Paul, Lars
    B: Ganryu, Leo, Devil Jin, Lee, Lei, Anna, Dragunov, Feng, Marduk, Roger Jr, Jin
    B-: Ling, Wang, Bears, Capos, Miguel, Hwoarang, Yoshimitsu
    C+: Raven, Asuka, Zafina


    Now granted I still think this tier list needs more time to be developed but it's a hell of a lot more accurate than that piece of junk. I'd like to know how characters that can't launch punish standing -16 are top 3? They are not.
    Upstate OG
  • ZeonTheUnbornZeonTheUnborn The One IX Joined: Posts: 2,723
    I don't agree that lars is that low in the tier listing.
    I will win! I won't stop until I get them!

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  • yah yaahh b*tch!yah yaahh b*tch! thats my b*tch Joined: Posts: 5,963
    ::face palm:: God that tier list is bad.

    Bob and Steve are not Top 3. I doubt they are even Top 10.

    Here is a more accurate tier list.

    A: Law, Bruce, Lili, Baek, Nina, Julia, Bryan, Alisa, King, Steve
    B+: A. King, Kazuya, Heihachi, Bob, Jack-6, Paul, Lars
    B: Ganryu, Leo, Devil Jin, Lee, Lei, Anna, Dragunov, Feng, Marduk, Roger Jr, Jin
    B-: Ling, Wang, Bears, Capos, Miguel, Hwoarang, Yoshimitsu
    C+: Raven, Asuka, Zafina


    Now granted I still think this tier list needs more time to be developed but it's a hell of a lot more accurate than that piece of junk. I'd like to know how characters that can't launch punish standing -16 are top 3? They are not.

    Making up your own tier list because youre not a good enough player to understand why the characters are placed where they are still doesnt justify making the list to begin with.


    Your list is outrageous.
  • XLCowBoyXLCowBoy Join Date: June 1991 Joined: Posts: 599
    ::face palm:: God that tier list is bad.

    Bob and Steve are not Top 3. I doubt they are even Top 10.

    Here is a more accurate tier list.

    A: Law, Bruce, Lili, Baek, Nina, Julia, Bryan, Alisa, King, Steve
    B+: A. King, Kazuya, Heihachi, Bob, Jack-6, Paul, Lars
    B: Ganryu, Leo, Devil Jin, Lee, Lei, Anna, Dragunov, Feng, Marduk, Roger Jr, Jin
    B-: Ling, Wang, Bears, Capos, Miguel, Hwoarang, Yoshimitsu
    C+: Raven, Asuka, Zafina


    Now granted I still think this tier list needs more time to be developed but it's a hell of a lot more accurate than that piece of junk. I'd like to know how characters that can't launch punish standing -16 are top 3? They are not.


    Top Korean players (Holeman, Nin.) put Lars as top tier, along with Alisa, Law

    Here's their list:
    BR Top 5~6

    A - Law, Lars, Bruce, Alisa, Lili/Baek

    B - Bob, Nina, Steve, King, Julia, Bryan

    Rest are below

    Bob is not a level below Nina, King, or Steve. Just no. He's waaaaay to versatile to even be considered to be on Kaz's/Hei's level. Only thing stopping Bob from being top tier again is his nerfed df2. That's it.
    If Tekken had a character that was a ball-sack, and it was playable, I'm pretty sure people would own with it. -FlyMike
  • TriplejjjTriplejjj Joined: Posts: 260
    Why is Paul ranked so highly? Imho Lee, Bruce and Leo are all candidates for a higher ranking. I must be missing something if Paul is only a step behind Law and Bob. Launching with b3 knee is good but what else does Paul have outside of his traditional whiff punish strength with phoenix smasher and wildly unsafe but unseeable demo man 50/50s?
    Fighting game enthusiast
  • Alice-chanAlice-chan KDP Alice-chan Joined: Posts: 1,029
    http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=114839

    As of October 06, 2009:

    A+ = Steve, Law, Bob
    AAA = Bryan, Paul, Julia, Lars, Lili
    AA = Bruce, Baek, King (says NIN), Jack, Eddy, Feng, Nina
    A- = Roger, A.King, Heihachi, Kaz, D.Jin, Christie, Anna, Miguel, Leo, Lee, Alisa
    B+ = Lei, Dragunov, Marduk, Jin, Asuka, Ganryu,
    B = Hwo, Ling, Wang
    B- = Yoshimitsu. Raven, Bears
    C+ = Mokujin. Zafina

    Idk i think this list is fucked up, bryan is too beastly not to be in the top, i think Kazuya should be on the same plain as paul and lars because of his punishment and good spacing.

    I agree with this.. it seems right. As the guy above me said the only thing I am wondering about is Paul being higher than Bruce. I'm not entirely sure on Pauls advanced play though so maybe he has something I haven't seen yet.
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  • XLCowBoyXLCowBoy Join Date: June 1991 Joined: Posts: 599
    Why is Paul ranked so highly? Imho Lee, Bruce and Leo are all candidates for a higher ranking. I must be missing something if Paul is only a step behind Law and Bob. Launching with b3 knee is good but what else does Paul have outside of his traditional whiff punish strength with phoenix smasher and wildly unsafe but unseeable demo man 50/50s?

    df2.
    If Tekken had a character that was a ball-sack, and it was playable, I'm pretty sure people would own with it. -FlyMike
  • e1j1e1j1 ..... Joined: Posts: 1,794
    Paul is solid but he's not top 5 material at all.

    Top 3 is easily in this order

    Law
    Steve
    Bob

    You can't deny just how bullshit these characters are.

    Nina
    Bruce
    Lili
    Baek
    Julia
    Bryan
    Lars

    follow but not in that order.

    Hei is easily the best of the Mishimas and debatable top 10. Alisa is ranked high on some lists because she probably has the best bdc in the game. Why people put King and Paul so high? I have no idea. Chreddy should be no where near top 10 either.
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  • Sleepy ZeroSleepy Zero The Other Lee Player Joined: Posts: 545
    No way in hell Bob is Top 10. He can't launch punish anything standing and he can't get a launch. How is he versitile? You people don't know the first thing about what makes a character top tier.

    You do realise unless a move is -20 Bob can not get a standing launch right? Has fastest standing launcher is i12 hit and punishable.

    All Bob gets from -12 to -16 is f+24. That's 37 damage and an Ok KD. That's terrible. What means essentially you can spam tons of launch punishable moves and get away with jab punishment. At i16 he gets u/f+1+2 1+2 which does good damage but compared to a launch it's garbage.

    His standing punishment is GARBAGE. It's really hard for him to get a launch. He's got to try to get a ch d/f+2 or somehow get you to run into and u/f+3. Which is not going to happen. His lows are good but not great. His tracking is ok. His strings have a whole lot of highs you can duck, his mids at the end of his strings are alway very punishable.

    He's completely overrated.

    By the way Kazuya is better than Bob. He does everything Bob does better than Bob does. You can't name a single thing Bob can do that Kazuya can't do better. Putting Bob infront of Kazuya in any tier list is utter luncy. Just cause you no ones told you it yet doesn't mean it's not true. Look at the moves, look at the frames. Kazuya is better than Bob.

    Let's compare to what I just said. Kazuya has EWGF which can come out at i13 which means technically he could EWGF punish for big damage anything -13 however it's more than likely it'll be used as a -14 punishment(which is much easier). Kazuya can launch all the way from -13 to -19 standing something Bob only wishes he could do.

    Kazuya also has more safe launchers. ff+3 and EWGF>CD+1.

    Kazuya has better pokes. b+24 is so godlike. The move is i14 hit confirmable with tons of frames on hit with really good range. d/f+4, EWGF, of coarse.

    Also Kazuya is better at Bob at his own greatest strenght. Bob's got a i14 WS launcher. Lol but Kazuya's TP is a frame faster and isn't launch punishable like Bob's. Where Kazuya can toss out TP without much worry Bob risk LAUNCH every time.

    How about their lows. Kazuya d/b+4, Hellsweep, stomp, and d/b+3 are better than Bob's d+3, WD+4,1+2, d/b+3, and d/b+44.

    I've brought this discussion up with everyone. There is no way in hell you can say Bob is better than Kazuya.

    Bob lacks too many tools. When you can't launc till 20s on the feet you can not be top tier. That is too much of a problem.
    Upstate OG
  • Sleepy ZeroSleepy Zero The Other Lee Player Joined: Posts: 545
    Lars is not top either. Lars' lows are ALL launch punishable. His moves leave him at way to many negative frames to take advantage of step or his u/f+3 and b+1+2. He's got like what one +frame move on block. He can't keep any kind of momentum. So basically if you sit back and be patient Lars has to come to you and he has to do it in incredibly risky ways. His throws are ass and so are his lows. Also outside of f+1+2, ff+1+2, his mids do crap for damage.

    Now Lars' turn around is that if he get a launch and a wall is around he can do a hell of a lot of damage. However without walls his damage is very mediocre and since it's really hard to get those launchers and risky too. You're looking at a character with too many holes in his game to be top tier.

    Really you're going to tell me Lars is better than someone like King? A character with better everything. Better damage period, better punishment, better tracking, better throws, better lows(that's saying something cause King's lows SUCK), way more +frame moves, better safe launchers, and better CH moves.

    Seriously. Why would anyone think Lars who has waaaayy too many problem would be Top 10? There are just better characters. Top 15 Top 20 sure. Top 10? In the mix with characters who are lacking way less? I don't think so.
    Upstate OG
  • Sleepy ZeroSleepy Zero The Other Lee Player Joined: Posts: 545
    Steve isn' Top 5 either. His standing punishment is worse than bobs. The max damage he gets all the way to -22 standing is like 112 which is 30 damage. Granted in the higher teens he can land ff+2 but that's not the point. Steve has crap WS launchers too. I mean damn. People it's not that hard to tell when a character has a serious fatal flaw that stops them from being top tier.

    I'm not even sure if Steve should break Top 10. His damage is just so good when he finally gets a hit that you can't dismiss it but man does he have tons of problems.
    Upstate OG
  • JarekovJarekov Thou Art A Bear Joined: Posts: 1,995
    Hei is easily the best of the Mishimas and debatable top 10. Alisa is ranked high on some lists because she probably has the best bdc in the game. Why people put King and Paul so high? I have no idea. Chreddy should be no where near top 10 either.

    King has some wicked fucking damage juggles off of very easy shit even without walls. He has a couple usable lows, but throws are whats going to get people ducking. He has a decent punishment game.

    Idk king just seems very versatile and when you get into setups and mindgames no character comes close to him in terms of the rewards. If you can turtle well and avoid getting caught in stupid shit and look for holes in someones game with king you can destroy them.
  • XLCowBoyXLCowBoy Join Date: June 1991 Joined: Posts: 599
    You're comparing Bob as if he should play like Kazuya. He doesn't work that way. Everything he does is about HC's, setups, crushes, and frame advantages. He's not a heavy punishment character like Kaz or Lars are.

    Moves which are HC? df1 > 2, f2>3, uf1+2>1+2. Save for df1>2, the others wall splat.
    He can punish at any 10f with 112.
    df1 and b2 refloats/catches back rolls. Both are safe.
    cd1 is safe. Launches on normal. This move has massive priority.
    21 is a 10f HM NC string, safe on block, and Bob has one the longest reaching 10f jabs in the game.
    df2 is SAFE. You can throw that out without worrying about being punished, and it will crush jabs and beat a lot of moves for a CH launch.
    b224 is safe.
    d24 knd's on normal, wall splats.
    b3 wall splats, hits grounded.
    d1 leaves opp in FC on block or normal, knd's on ch, and can be cc'ed repeatedly to keep them on the ground. d1 cc d1 loop against a cornered opponent can actually finish a match. d1 also has deceptive range, and out-prioritizes a ton of moves.
    d21 is safe.
    WD game? WD into uf3/hellsweep/ws4/fc df21_df24/b3 mixup.
    He also has a WD throw which wall splats.
    WS 22 leaves opp in FC on normal/block
    bb4 crushes lows and floats on normal. b2 is guaranteed after to lift into juggle.
    uf3 /uf1+2>1+2 crushes a lot of lows and sweeps, save for very low ones like Law's or Lili's db4.
    FC df21 is safe. Mixup with FC df24.
    1+3 throw leaves opponent open to refloats/oki if they move too early. Guaranteed db3 if they don't.
    WD Oki (WD into uf3 or hellsweep or CH throw).
    WD Mixup with CD throw (CD throw / CD into 1+3 throw), or ff1+2 launch throw gives Bob a good throw game.
    d4 on hit leaves jabs uninterruptible.
    d434 floats rollers and wall splats. You can actually do bb4, d434 W!, b41 B!, df1, d3+4. Just from crushing a low.
    He has good (really good) wall carry, and has a good wall game (df1, d3+4 or b22, d3+43).
    If no B! before a W!, you can SS/BD then use db2 as a floater. e.g: f23 and cd1 will side W! to Bob's right, then followed by SSR~db2,2,uf1+2,1B!, d23.
    SS1+2 KND's on normal, W! and gives Bob an extra "step" when he SS'es, nullifying his size disadvantage.

    etc. etc.

    ---- Bottom line is: don't play Bob entirely like a Mishima. He has WD mixups, but a number of the similarities pretty much end there.

    I'd cover Lars too, but I need to get back to work. Remember, that's not my list, that list was stated by Holeman and Nin, but echo'd by other players like Rain, etc.
    If Tekken had a character that was a ball-sack, and it was playable, I'm pretty sure people would own with it. -FlyMike
  • JarekovJarekov Thou Art A Bear Joined: Posts: 1,995
    ::face palm:: God that tier list is bad.

    Bob and Steve are not Top 3. I doubt they are even Top 10.

    Here is a more accurate tier list.

    A: Law, Bruce, Lili, Baek, Nina, Julia, Bryan, Alisa, King, Steve
    B+: A. King, Kazuya, Heihachi, Bob, Jack-6, Paul, Lars
    B: Ganryu, Leo, Devil Jin, Lee, Lei, Anna, Dragunov, Feng, Marduk, Roger Jr, Jin
    B-: Ling, Wang, Bears, Capos, Miguel, Hwoarang, Yoshimitsu
    C+: Raven, Asuka, Zafina


    Now granted I still think this tier list needs more time to be developed but it's a hell of a lot more accurate than that piece of junk. I'd like to know how characters that can't launch punish standing -16 are top 3? They are not.

    this is pretty off. tier lists are regional quite a bit but julia alisa king are not top tier. and lars has a 40 dmg low that u cant block on reaction, coupled with everything he does being mid makes him mean. steve is also a beast, i dont even need to explain that.
  • TriplejjjTriplejjj Joined: Posts: 260
    df2.

    I'll definitely agree with you on the fact that Paul has an above average df2, but so does Leo, and when you compare Paul's strengths to Bruce's crazy cd2 and cd3, plus what is arguably the best wall carry in the game it just doesn't stack up. Well, I'm still happy old man Phoenix is at the very least a solid mid-card contender
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  • k4polok4polo Your Lethal Assassin Joined: Posts: 4,486
    outside of the top 3, you're gonna have a hard time getting a tier list that everyone can agree upon (japan, korea, u.s., ect). outside the top 3 it gets pretty inconsistent, atleast for the top 10 or so, but I guess thats to be expected from a game with so many characters. I think the only thing everyone can agree on s the bottom, aka zafina, yosh, raven, bears.

    You lie. Zafina is Top tier. She has so many safe moves and her moves are lightning fast. :).

    On a serious note, in the SBO vids, there was a huge variety of characters actually. The winning team of SBO was Lili, Julia and Wang. I saw an Alisa player,and a Lars player.

    The point is that this game is very diverse as oppose to maybe BB: CT for instance where for the most part, top tier dominated.
    "Where there is light, there's a shadow"
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    USFIV: Rolento, Poison, Seth
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  • ZeonTheUnbornZeonTheUnborn The One IX Joined: Posts: 2,723
    this is pretty off. tier lists are regional quite a bit but julia alisa king are not top tier. and lars has a 40 dmg low that u cant block on reaction, coupled with everything he does being mid makes him mean. steve is also a beast, i dont even need to explain that.

    Not to mention that most of Lars NC's are fast or just plain evil when punishing. And U/f+3
    I will win! I won't stop until I get them!

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  • JarekovJarekov Thou Art A Bear Joined: Posts: 1,995
    You lie. Zafina is Top tier. She has so many safe moves and her moves are lightning fast. :).

    On a serious note, in the SBO vids, there was a huge variety of characters actually. The winning team of SBO of SBO was Lili, Julia and Wang. I saw an Alisa player, a Lars.

    The point is that this game is very diverse as oppose to maybe BB: CT for instance where for the most part, top tier dominated.

    Blazblue was pretty balanced considering it only has 12 characters and like 4 characters can dominate... you have a 1/3 chance of picking a character that can dominate... thats better then most games:wink:
  • k4polok4polo Your Lethal Assassin Joined: Posts: 4,486
    Blazblue was pretty balanced considering it only has 12 characters and like 4 characters can dominate... you have a 1/3 chance of picking a character that can dominate... thats better then most games:wink:

    I guess if you think about it from that angle. Then you are correct.
    "Where there is light, there's a shadow"
    SFV: Nash, Karin, Cammy, Urien
    USFIV: Rolento, Poison, Seth
    MK X: Kotal Kahn, Mileena
    UMvC3: Nemesis, Felicia, Strider
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Ibuki and Juri BUFFZ Joined: Posts: 51,519 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Yeah sleepy zero forgot that juggles are only the second biggest thing in Tekken now. It's all about who can counter hit the hardest. Lars is a beast on counter hit. So is Steve, Law and BOB!!

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  • JarekovJarekov Thou Art A Bear Joined: Posts: 1,995
    Yeah sleepy zero forgot that juggles are only the second biggest thing in Tekken now. It's all about who can counter hit the hardest. Lars is a beast on counter hit. So is Steve, Law and BOB!!

    steve being the biggest beast.... i think.
  • XLCowBoyXLCowBoy Join Date: June 1991 Joined: Posts: 599
    I'll definitely agree with you on the fact that Paul has an above average df2, but so does Leo, and when you compare Paul's strengths to Bruce's crazy cd2 and cd3, plus what is arguably the best wall carry in the game it just doesn't stack up. Well, I'm still happy old man Phoenix is at the very least a solid mid-card contender

    Leo rocks too IMHO, but CH Deathfist Leo does not have. :sweat:
    If Tekken had a character that was a ball-sack, and it was playable, I'm pretty sure people would own with it. -FlyMike
  • darksoul173darksoul173 HORI AT THEE Joined: Posts: 1,095
    Lars is not top/high tier???
    one of the best if not the best punisher in the game (F24 F1+2 etc)
    70-80+ dmg from almost everything without walls 100+ with walls
    Lars is tier
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  • Shin OniShin Oni Mr. Gimmicks Joined: Posts: 6,269
    I laugh at people who say Steve isn't top or even considered being top.

    That Euro trash has a answer for everything. Juggles/wall carries/okis/CH for free. Like really. Anyone who know's even the basics with Steve and knowledge of how T6 plays can make you look bad.

    Bob and Lars has fucking mixups. Plus being fast...easy bounding...I don't even have to go further.

    I've only touched T6 since the console version dropped and I can tell you with common sense and just a few matches with decent Steve players the dude is godly.
    I don't got those.
  • yah yaahh b*tch!yah yaahh b*tch! thats my b*tch Joined: Posts: 5,963
    Chreddy should be no where near top 10 either.


    They arent. But they are AA tier (Christie only being lower because Eddy has longer limbs.)

    The only thing Chreddy is missing is a quick punisher. Which would make them over the top IMO (imagine if uf+3+4 gave +frames) HSD and RLX mixups are too strong in Tekken 6. They have built in evasive attacks, stances that cant be thrown, that go under mids and highs, good damage off staple launchers, excellent wall carry, nasty combo reset game, juggles off of quick lows and good damage. Not to mention your fate is sealed if they get started in a stance loop mixup in the corner.

    Chreddy could use a little more speed and a decent punisher, but they are definetely way better than over half the cast.


    But what bugs me is it will be almost what...13 years since Chreddy was introduced to the series? and they still get the most hell. Mostly from people who never spent any time learning about what they can do, which is one of the reasons they are such a threat this time around.


    And mind you, ill be controversial and say that the Japanese play a good Chreddy, but they dont stance enough. Even Qdogg plays a pretty stoic Chreddy. Somebody needs to really come out the woodworks with some unheard of shit and wow the crowd.
  • JarekovJarekov Thou Art A Bear Joined: Posts: 1,995
    They arent. But they are AA tier (Christie only being lower because Eddy has longer limbs.)

    The only thing Chreddy is missing is a quick punisher. Which would make them over the top IMO (imagine if uf+3+4 gave +frames) HSD and RLX mixups are too strong in Tekken 6. They have built in evasive attacks, stances that cant be thrown, that go under mids and highs, good damage off staple launchers, excellent wall carry, nasty combo reset game, juggles off of quick lows and good damage. Not to mention your fate is sealed if they get started in a stance loop mixup in the corner.

    Chreddy could use a little more speed and a decent punisher, but they are definetely way better than over half the cast.


    But what bugs me is it will be almost what...13 years since Chreddy was introduced to the series? and they still get the most hell. Mostly from people who never spent any time learning about what they can do, which is one of the reasons they are such a threat this time around.


    And mind you, ill be controversial and say that the Japanese play a good Chreddy, but they dont stance enough. Even Qdogg plays a pretty stoic Chreddy. Somebody needs to really come out the woodworks with some unheard of shit and wow the crowd.

    Ive seen some nasty eddie vids and i would totally pick him up but idk wtf im doing whenever i start using him:sweat:

    isnt b.3f. pretty fast, it deals 30 dmg if the knee hits which aint too bad?
  • e1j1e1j1 ..... Joined: Posts: 1,794
    RLX mixups are ass now, thats why.

    Zero please post that in the TZ tier list thread....I'd really like to see some opinions on what you think.
    "Go join a fraternity and step your game up!"
  • DillyDilly Joined: Posts: 294
    King has some wicked fucking damage juggles off of very easy shit even without walls. He has a couple usable lows, but throws are whats going to get people ducking. He has a decent punishment game.

    Idk king just seems very versatile and when you get into setups and mindgames no character comes close to him in terms of the rewards. If you can turtle well and avoid getting caught in stupid shit and look for holes in someones game with king you can destroy them.

    King's punishment game is more than decent. It's not the best in the game(really, does anyone punish as well as kaz?) but it is definitely GREAT.
    this is pretty off. tier lists are regional quite a bit but julia alisa king are not top tier. and lars has a 40 dmg low that u cant block on reaction, coupled with everything he does being mid makes him mean. steve is also a beast, i dont even need to explain that.

    King is top ranks, EASY.

    What people don't seem to get about king is that he's the ultimate turtle... Look at his standard "jab" punishment... Not just at what's "guaranteed" but the throw mix-ups as well... I mean -10 you get a GS attempt, -11_-12 you get a MB_GS_ISW mix-up which is literally a guessing game to break... If his back is to the wall a TINY mistake can cost you the match because GS to the wall hurts... Badly. Sure, it's not guaranteed, but it's 100% a GUESS of what he's doing, there's no reaction breaking this because all options have the same exact arm animation and it's buffered so no tell tale movements. This alone makes small mistakes HUGE against king.

    He deals 81 off hop-kick without walls with u/f+4, f+3, 2, f+2,2,2 b! ISW.... -15 is a scary place to be with him. From FC he gets FC d/f+2, d/f+4,3, b+2,1+2 b!, ISW(on bigger characters he can switch out b+2,1+2 for f+2,2,2) for huge damage too.

    b+1 will make people cry, believe that. Safe on block, hit confirmable 2 follow-up which leaves the opponent standing at a huge disadvantage, and on CH he gets a juggle. This is king's magic number 4. It also whiff punishes like crazy with it's massive reach. Of course, even from standard magic 4 he gets b+1, d/f+4,3, b+1,4 100% reliably. I know it's possible to land Magic 4, f+2,2,2 b! but I can't confirm ISW is possible from it as every time I've attempted it's whiffed and I'm pretty accurate on my b! ISW so I think it may not be possible, but if anyone else has managed it PLEASE let me know!

    Non-chickenable reversals, with guaranteed oki after... Off his kick reversal he gets guaranteed ground throw attempts.

    Irish whip follow-ups are nasty too. One of them guarantees 2 ground throw attempts, and if neither is broken you're looking at HUGE damage here. Ground throws are 100% a guessing game, as 1+3 and 2+4 both give the same animation.

    f,f~n+1+2 ch fishing is fun, leading to a free b+3 or possibly even b+1,2 is distance is right. Free wall-splat at wall, 100% safe to attempt.

    If king hits you, it hurts bad, but in T6 king is much better off playing defensive than as a bull. There really is no one that gives him problems in this game, as he has an answer for everyone and everything.

    f+4 is one of the best tracking moves in the game. Crushes lows effectively, safe on block, splats, KD on hit.

    Nin lists him as top 5, and I definitely take nin's word on how good a character is. There's just no match up that king doesn't have the tools to win, plain and simple.

    As for Julia... If you don't list her as a top character, you've clearly never seen just how dangerous the girl is.

    Right off the bat, second best throw in the game, Mad Axes. Only 1 frame slower than GS, requires a VERY quick break, great oki position after.

    4~2,1.. This move, when used correctly, is so good it's crazy. 100% confirmable, used point blank it makes a decent poke, used out-side of jab range it's an unseeable low that KD's and wall-splats. Did I mention it can't be crushed by normal means? It seems as though only Asuka can crush it with b+3, but I need to further test it. Jumps get floated by the 2 into juggle, so no hop kicking it. IMO this is easily one of the best lows in the game. IIRC it's -12 on block and -4 on hit if the 4~2 both connect, but if the 2 whiffs the 1 follow up is guaranteed... This OWNS tech rollers, as now the 2 naturally whiffs on side-roll or so it seems. In other words, side roll at the wall? SPLAT! No need to space it.

    She can launch -13 with f,f+3 if you buffer it into the guard. Do I really need to explain this?

    Her wall game.... Seriously. Do I need to even talk about this? Definitely one of the best wall carries in the game, no questions asked. I've seen her one or two characters length away from the wall, HER back toward the wall, and she carried her opponent to the wall and splatted him to follow up with d,d/f+1,2 on electric fountain... That's just sickening. We're talking clear across the stage!!!

    I don't play Julia myself, I've played against enough GOOD ones to know that without a shadow of a doubt she's top tier. If you haven't see how deep the BS goes with her then you'd think she's just another character... It wasn't until people discovered the secret behind 4~2,1 in the DR days that julia became top-tier in DR. As people notice more of her insanity, you'll see her keep moving up that chart. She's definitely one of the most over-looked characters in the roster.
    Blazblue was pretty balanced considering it only has 12 characters and like 4 characters can dominate... you have a 1/3 chance of picking a character that can dominate... thats better then most games:wink:

    if only 33% of the characters are viable at high level, it's not balanced period.
    Lars is not top/high tier???
    one of the best if not the best punisher in the game (F24 F1+2 etc)
    70-80+ dmg from almost everything without walls 100+ with walls
    Lars is tier

    Kaz punishes better than lars. There isn't anything punishable that kaz has to let slide. Seriously.

    I still don't know where'd I'd personally place Lars as I haven't fought enough of them though.
    Steve isn' Top 5 either. His standing punishment is worse than bobs. The max damage he gets all the way to -22 standing is like 112 which is 30 damage. Granted in the higher teens he can land ff+2 but that's not the point. Steve has crap WS launchers too. I mean damn. People it's not that hard to tell when a character has a serious fatal flaw that stops them from being top tier.

    I'm not even sure if Steve should break Top 10. His damage is just so good when he finally gets a hit that you can't dismiss it but man does he have tons of problems.

    I'm hoping that -22 is a typo.

    Anyway, steve's big savior is how much poking efficiency has increased in tekken 6 br. 9 measly 20 damage pokes and it's KO, and sneaking in 9 hits with someone as frame friendly as steve isn't too difficult. Even then though, personally, I don't see on paper how steve could possibly be top. While his wall game is absolutely insane, and he does punish non-launchable lows better than practically everyone and CH b+1 is the stuff tears are made of(considering all of the +f moves he carries), on paper his placement still just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Oddly enough no one has really been able to explain why he's top either. They just all say he is.

    Of course, now that everyone has access to tekken 6, I bet we'll see a lot of shifting in the tiers.
  • yah yaahh b*tch!yah yaahh b*tch! thats my b*tch Joined: Posts: 5,963
    What you fail to realize is even though some characters have a lot of tools, the characters that are supposedly "better" have ANSWERS for a lot of their tactics.


    You are making these characters out to be great relative to themselves.

    Theres really no use in arguring tiers if you dont know what every character is capable of.


    EDIT: and the game is over a year old, just because its on console doesnt mean the tiers will change. if something brand spanking new is discovered and revolutionizes how x character is played, and x character begins to win tournaments then PERHAPS they could move a little.

    Personally I think the top 5 have something very important that makes them so good : frame advantage. Bob and Steve can become disorienting with the amount of frame traps they can pressure on you in a matter of seconds. Its difficult to know whats going on if you dont at least know how to play a scrub Steve. Really, everybody is pretty good in Tekken 6, so now its about nitpicking individual traits and properties to really rank them over the rest of the cast.
  • DillyDilly Joined: Posts: 294
    Things are still being discovered... Game may have been out for a year, but an example is that it was just now discovered that asuka CAN get a launch off FC d/f+2 even though it was assumed for the entire year that she couldn't. A perfectly timed CC d/f+2 will launch, but it has to be perfectly timed to the frame.

    New combos are being discovered, new traps, new oki tricks... As I stated earlier... Julia was considered horrible when t5: DR first came out... months down the line someone noticed if the 2 whiffed in 4~2,1 the whole string connected... She went from close to bottom to the top. Some countries(Japan) considered her better than Kaz and a top 3 character... Off ONE discovery.

    Another solid example is how long it was before people found out just how powerful bryan's taunt was compared to how long he had the ability to do so.

    Yeah, tiers aren't decided so quickly, there's still plenty of BS to be discovered, and before a LOT of top players didn't have access to the game. Not only that, but a lot of people aren't going to try out stuff that they're unsure of because if it back-fires it costed them money, in some areas $1.50 per game!

    btw, I can put that same info I just posted up against what the others in the cast have and you'll see it still fits all the same...
  • XLCowBoyXLCowBoy Join Date: June 1991 Joined: Posts: 599
    Kaz punishes better than lars. There isn't anything punishable that kaz has to let slide. Seriously.

    I still don't know where'd I'd personally place Lars as I haven't fought enough of them though.

    Re: Lars

    db21 is safe, super long range, ducks highs, hits mid, tracks, will refloat catch back rolls
    df2 is safe, ducks some highs, and on CH gives inescapable crumple stun which leads to a big damage wall carry combo.
    b1 is safe, long range, can't be ss'ed/ducked/crushed
    b22 is safe
    21 is a 10f HM string. last hit (3_4) can be delayed. The 4 in 214 is a homing move to catch SS'ers, and the 3 is a mid that KND's on normal to catch crouchers. Both wall splat.
    df1 is safe, ducks highs, will refloat rollers
    df3 is safe, can be used to setup DE mixups
    b34 is HC afaik (I personally prefer using fb21 as a punisher, but I've seen people use this as a long range setup)
    uf4 is safe, crushes a number of moves (mid mids, low mids, and crouch moves)
    uf3 crushes highs and lows, hits grounded, will lift a back roller. in a combo, causes high W! splat
    db4 should be used only at max range and as a CH move. One of the fastest, longest low sweeps in the game.
    db13 is NC, and has really long range.
    f24 is NC, huge damage, and W! to Lars' left
    ff1+2 is -11f with pushback. Basically unpunishable except by 11f magic 4's, or really long 10f jabs
    d2 leaves opp in FC on normal and on block, and 0f, and Lars recovers standing.
    f1+2 will crush jabs at max range (Lars steps back slightly).
    WS21 leaves opp in FC, and WS2~DE will create space. WS2 will catch back rollers, and hit side rollers.
    WS21 and FCdf1+2 are -12f on block. Only ws4 punishable.
    iWR3 is plus frames on block, mid, crushes lows, super long range. You can buffer it too.
    iSW buffering.
    uf1+2 throw wall splats. shoulder guaranteed after afaik.
    db1+2 ducks highs, avoids short mids.
    b1+2 ducks highs, wall splats, can be used in combo for wall carry/wall splat.
    db23 in combo has great wall carry and wall splats. You can do f1+2, db2, db23 W! dash df1+2 B!, df1, db21, shoulder.
    fb21 is 14f and is a super long range punisher. It will punish Paul's DF on max pushback. It hits mid too, so moves that recover crouching will still be hit.
    db2 can go into SE.
    df3 can go into DE.
    WS2 can go into SE and backwards DE.
    b3 can go into SE.
    f21 can go into SE.
    SS2 is safe, KND on normal.

    etc.

    Kaz doesn't have a db21
    df1 is -10, can't be used as a mid poke
    f3 is -13
    df2 is -12
    1+2 is -14
    db2 is too slow to used outside of a combo
    22 is -10.
    twin pistons is 13f with nerfed range, and -13 on block
    df321 - only the knee is safe. 2 is -11, 1 is -19
    No hopkick launcher to crush lows (uf3 is safe, but no guaranteed anything on hit)
    No throw game
    Poor SS game (no viable SS launcher)

    etc.

    The problem with Kaz is that practically everything you throw out carries some sort of punishment risk, because he doesn't really have safe pokes to setup with.
    If Tekken had a character that was a ball-sack, and it was playable, I'm pretty sure people would own with it. -FlyMike
  • DillyDilly Joined: Posts: 294
    I was replying to the guy who said Lars is one of, if not the best punisher. I said nothing about anything else... I never said kaz is top, or even that kaz is higher than lars. Only that kaz is DEFINITELY hands down the better punishment character. This is something very few would argue with.

    13f standing launcher, 13f ws launcher(if this is out of range CC~ewgf comes EXTREMELY quick, faster than most characters ws launchers). DEWGF is probably still the best whiff punisher in the game. Also, SS~ewgf is VERY viable, for the record... I only mention it because it's detrimental to his whiff punishing game.

    I'm not going to discuss the rest, as I don't main kaz, but in terms of punishment, which is all I brought up, kaz easily beats out lars.

    Nice to know what Lars has though, but you did ignore a few things kaz does, but I'll tell a kazuya player continue that conversation.
  • XLCowBoyXLCowBoy Join Date: June 1991 Joined: Posts: 599
    I was replying to the guy who said Lars is one of, if not the best punisher. I said nothing about anything else... I never said kaz is top, or even that kaz is higher than lars. Only that kaz is DEFINITELY hands down the better punishment character. This is something very few would argue with.

    13f standing launcher, 13f ws launcher(if this is out of range CC~ewgf comes EXTREMELY quick, faster than most characters ws launchers). DEWGF is probably still the best whiff punisher in the game. Also, SS~ewgf is VERY viable, for the record... I only mention it because it's detrimental to his whiff punishing game.

    I'm not going to discuss the rest, as I don't main kaz, but in terms of punishment, which is all I brought up, kaz easily beats out lars.

    Nice to know what Lars has though, but you did ignore a few things kaz does, but I'll tell a kazuya player continue that conversation.

    Well, I'll agree that he has the best standing punisher in the game (EWGF), and some great damage combos to go with it, but... I can't say much for the rest of his game.

    Either f3 or 1+2 should have been safe imho.
    If Tekken had a character that was a ball-sack, and it was playable, I'm pretty sure people would own with it. -FlyMike
  • DillyDilly Joined: Posts: 294
    Oh, I'm not going to say much on his game either... Kaz has become a punishment character first and foremost now. He does have the tools needed to win, but if you throw anything out there that whiffs or is unsafe, he's going to make you a sad panda. He's not the beast he once was, but he's not as bad as people act like he is.
  • XLCowBoyXLCowBoy Join Date: June 1991 Joined: Posts: 599
    He's not the beast he once was, but he's not as bad as people act like he is.

    Yep. This pretty much sums it up.
    If Tekken had a character that was a ball-sack, and it was playable, I'm pretty sure people would own with it. -FlyMike
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Ibuki and Juri BUFFZ Joined: Posts: 51,519 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Yeah its funny that lars is still an anomoly for a lot of tekken players. I just picked up lars cuz he looked fun. I'm basically coming back from a 3 year hiatus from tekken play (not even competitive tekken play at that) and the tekken people I met up with at nec seemed to be reakky intrigued by what lars could do. It was funny showing veterans of the game new stuff but that's why I like new characters.

    For me I can see why steve is difficult to play and people tend to stay away from him in tourneys even though he's tops. Though it seems like if steve plays perfectly u just won't win. His ability to constantly carry plus frame momentum makes him extremely strong in a game where just looking for a launch is no longer the key strategy.

    Kunoichi is always in V Trigger

    BUFF CITY.  Population IBUKI


    SFV: Ibuki (Main Bae), Juri (Buffed Bae), Chun Li (Needs Buffs Bae)

    KOF XIV: Nakoruru/Iori/KDash

    SFIV: Nobody hate that shit (PROTIP: Everyone on SRK hates SFIV)

    3S: Ibuki (main), Alex

    If I ever pick up Xrd: Johnny

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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    They arent. But they are AA tier (Christie only being lower because Eddy has longer limbs.)

    The only thing Chreddy is missing is a quick punisher. Which would make them over the top IMO (imagine if uf+3+4 gave +frames) HSD and RLX mixups are too strong in Tekken 6. They have built in evasive attacks, stances that cant be thrown, that go under mids and highs, good damage off staple launchers, excellent wall carry, nasty combo reset game, juggles off of quick lows and good damage. Not to mention your fate is sealed if they get started in a stance loop mixup in the corner.

    Chreddy could use a little more speed and a decent punisher, but they are definetely way better than over half the cast.


    But what bugs me is it will be almost what...13 years since Chreddy was introduced to the series? and they still get the most hell. Mostly from people who never spent any time learning about what they can do, which is one of the reasons they are such a threat this time around.


    And mind you, ill be controversial and say that the Japanese play a good Chreddy, but they dont stance enough. Even Qdogg plays a pretty stoic Chreddy. Somebody needs to really come out the woodworks with some unheard of shit and wow the crowd.

    Quoted for Truth!!!!
    You basically said everything I wanted to say about Chreddy. T6 Chreddy is way better than 5Dr. There mix up game got a whole lot better but your right about the punishment. The only thing I can remotly think of is u/f4 for some type of low crush. More and more people are saying that Chreddy is a force not to be reckoned with this tume around. Look at Impact Clash tourney results. There was a Chreddy in top 5. There were some pretty heavy hitter at that tournament in ATL. If Chreddy was evasive in 5DR, they are hella evasive this time around! Untechable throw setup off of HSP! RLX got a tad faster. Too many things they got better at! I love it!
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Ibuki and Juri BUFFZ Joined: Posts: 51,519 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    U just have to watch misty's eddy on tekken crash to see what eddy is capable of. One of the best mix up characters in the game.

    Kunoichi is always in V Trigger

    BUFF CITY.  Population IBUKI


    SFV: Ibuki (Main Bae), Juri (Buffed Bae), Chun Li (Needs Buffs Bae)

    KOF XIV: Nakoruru/Iori/KDash

    SFIV: Nobody hate that shit (PROTIP: Everyone on SRK hates SFIV)

    3S: Ibuki (main), Alex

    If I ever pick up Xrd: Johnny

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  • e1j1e1j1 ..... Joined: Posts: 1,794
    RLX mixups are not good....

    Korea also thinks Miguel is good....

    *shrugs*
    "Go join a fraternity and step your game up!"
  • JarekovJarekov Thou Art A Bear Joined: Posts: 1,995
    i learned a couple basic mixups with eddie and i beat an 800 win marduk my first match.... i really think eddie has potential to be a beast, i didnt even have any juggles, just mixups and i stomped this guy.
  • JarekovJarekov Thou Art A Bear Joined: Posts: 1,995
    Quoted for Truth!!!!
    You basically said everything I wanted to say about Chreddy. T6 Chreddy is way better than 5Dr. There mix up game got a whole lot better but your right about the punishment. The only thing I can remotly think of is u/f4 for some type of low crush. More and more people are saying that Chreddy is a force not to be reckoned with this tume around. Look at Impact Clash tourney results. There was a Chreddy in top 5. There were some pretty heavy hitter at that tournament in ATL. If Chreddy was evasive in 5DR, they are hella evasive this time around! Untechable throw setup off of HSP! RLX got a tad faster. Too many things they got better at! I love it!

    you wanna get some games in and work on some eddie shenanigans and matchups? Im pretty proficient with most of the cast and i want to take eddie to the next level.
  • Sensei RouzuSensei Rouzu Just Another Brotha on SRK Joined: Posts: 3,907
    I didn't think that many people played with Julia The only real thing these lists mean is that more people play with certain characters. which is why mokujin is at the bottom because hardly know one can really become a master mokujin player. You have to know everyone's movesets and adjust them to mokujin's height.

    Listening to : Nas / N.W.A / ChocQuibTown / David Wise / Kool Keith / Sadistik / Undogmatic

  • Shin OniShin Oni Mr. Gimmicks Joined: Posts: 6,269
    I didn't think that many people played with Julia The only real thing these lists mean is that more people play with certain characters. which is why mokujin is at the bottom because hardly know one can really become a master mokujin player. You have to know everyone's movesets and adjust them to mokujin's height.

    Julia was considered top early T6.0...along with Hwo/Baek. Run with that.

    Hwo obviously dropped but Julia and Baek still have tools to hang. The game in general is fairly balanced and everyone has gotten more than enough play. It's just now people can fool around more since it's on the console so there's a possibility of finding a few more things.

    and I've seen a lot of people run with Mokujin for jokes or for reals. It's not like it's hard to know at least the basics of everyone and at least 1 BnB juggle. Plus You're getting a bit of an advantage when Moku runs with Bears/Jack since your limbs are longer. More reach, more to work with.
    I don't got those.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Ibuki and Juri BUFFZ Joined: Posts: 51,519 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Yeah fuck tiers in Tekken. It's not a big deal any ways. You're all trying to get counter hits and sidestep each other's shit. Pick a character that can do that and you're good. That's probably what I like most about the game. As long as you are passionate about a character you can do things with them. No point in getting into long winded discussions about tiers like the SFIV thread. That's one of the reasons I started playing this game...to get away from the tier discussion. The character I use just happens to be pretty gdlk tier wise.

    Kunoichi is always in V Trigger

    BUFF CITY.  Population IBUKI


    SFV: Ibuki (Main Bae), Juri (Buffed Bae), Chun Li (Needs Buffs Bae)

    KOF XIV: Nakoruru/Iori/KDash

    SFIV: Nobody hate that shit (PROTIP: Everyone on SRK hates SFIV)

    3S: Ibuki (main), Alex

    If I ever pick up Xrd: Johnny

    PSN: PervyJin01

    CFN: PervyJin01 (PS4) Twitch: c88deviljin01

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