The Optical Joystick Discussion

Ikagi-chanIkagi-chan Loves his HRAP2SA! <3Joined: Posts: 1,980
I thought it would be pretty cool to start a thread dedicated to the discussion of optical joysticks. These include:

- The Happ/WICO Perfect 360 joystick
- The Sanwa JLHS-8Y FLASH 1 joystick
- The ASCII Answer (Optical) joystick

as well as recent reproductions:

- Toodles' Spark
- Rollie Electronics and Happ Controls' reproduction FLASH 1

What is an optical joystick and why should I care?

What's so great about optics? Well, the beauty of optical joysticks is that unlike their microswitch counterparts, there's not a single component on the PCB that moves. That means as long as you're not running these things out-of-spec, they'll last a really long time. The optical joysticks invented thus far have required +5V power to power their sensors and LEDs. All 5 sticks listed above have however been successfully installed onto PlayStation 1 and 2 era sticks without much of a hitch. This would normally be an issue since PS1 and PS2 PCBs output at only +3.3V.

All of the original joysticks been out of production for a long time. The Sanwa HS-ASSY FLASH 1 PCB was discontinued in 2006; the old WICO Perfect 360s have been out of production for maybe a decade (someone fact check me on this) and the ASCII optical joysticks were just hard to find to begin with. So, needless to say, if you want an original, you're going to have to prepare a chunk of cash to get it.

HOWEVER, do not be mistaken that just because they're reproductions that Toodles' Spark or Rolllie's FLASH 1 are any worse. They are reproductions, but they are based on the same design principles and standards that original optical joystick PCBs work on. They will work the exact same.


Where can I buy an optical joystick?

As stated, if you're looking to get an original optical joystick, be prepared to get some cash on hand because depending on which joystick you want, you're going to have to spend a LOT of cash. Here are some figures regarding the average going rate I've seen for these joysticks here on SRK's Trading Outlet:

WICO Perfect 360: $100.00 +/- $20.00
Sanwa JLHS-8Y FLASH 1: $200.00 (!) +/- $20.00
ASCII Answer (Optical): $120.00 +/- $20.00

And here's the price for the reproduction optical PCBs:

Toodles' Spark: $55.00 + shipping
Rollie's FLASH 1: To be determined

Except for the newer production Happ Perfect 360s, which you can get commonly from LizardLick for $39.95 plus shipping and handling, every other optical joystick ever made is out of production. Go figure why they're so sought after; the last time people were able to get an optical joystick for reasonable prices was around in 2006! :wasted:

If you are a fan of American parts you can still get a Happ Perfect 360 joystick from places like LizardLick. Just be aware that the newer Happ Perfect 360 joysticks are manufactured by Happ in their factories in China and the first batches of P360s have had issues with various aspects of the build; pivot grinding issues, diagonals not registering, and other issues have been noticed in the newer P360s (none of these reported issues have anything to do with the optics. If there were any optics issues, it's because you're not powering your joystick properly).

However, that was a few years ago when Happ first made the switch to their China factories. Today, their P360s are mostly issue free, though WICO P360 owners will tell you the new P360s "Just don't feel the same." You can get a newer Happ P360 for around $40.00 USD from LizardLick, but for a WICO P360, you're going to need to do a bit of hunting for them and shell out some more cash. I've seen WICO P360s go for around $120.00 here on SRK. The easiest way to tell if it was made by WICO or Happ is to look at the bottom of the joystick. If it was made by WICO, it will have "WICO" written on the bottom. If Happ, it will say "HAPP P360." There have been some cases where some people got a P360 without any writing on the bottom at all, and it's mostly been assumed that these are WICO P360s, but just be sure to ask.

If you are fan of Japanese parts and are looking to use an optical joystick, looking for an ASCII Answer (Optical) is probably your best bet. They're incredibly good in terms of build quality and you can find them for significantly cheaper than a Sanwa FLASH 1. Of course, you typically won't find them sold as just the joystick. The ASCII Answer is pretty elusive only because when you look for any possible ASCII joystick that might have them, people are worried about whether the stick they're buying actually has an optical joystick since ASCII did manufacture sticks with microswitch joysticks. This detailed post by jdm714 however helps us out a lot. It covers the 6 ASCII sticks ever produced that used an optical joystick along with giving us the Japanese katakana for the joystick so that if you're feeling ambitious, you can hunt for them on Japanese auction sites.
For PlayStation
ASCII Stick 3 (?????????3)
?plugin=ref&serial=118

ASCII Stick Zero 3 (?????????ZERO3)
?plugin=ref&serial=154

ASCII Stick Justice (????????? ??????)
?plugin=ref&serial=146

For Dreamcast
ASCII Stick FT (?????????FT)
?plugin=ref&serial=80

ASCII Stick FT Special: SNK Version (?????????FT SP SNK?????)
?plugin=ref&serial=205

ASCII Stick FT Special: Capcom Version (?????????FT SP ?????????)
?plugin=ref&serial=204

Wiring up the ASCII Answer is a bit odd since it does not use a standard connector for its directions, voltage line, or ground. All we get with it is the wires that were attached to the original ASCII PCB. But courtesy of our encyclopedic resource, jdm714, we have a diagram for those who want to wire one up into another stick.

madcatzasciiwire.png

The colors correspond to each of the wires on the ASCII Answer PCB. Depending on whether you are using a Dreamcast or PlayStation 1 era ASCII Answer, your wire coloring may vary. This post by jdm714 tells of all the known color schemes so far:
Dreamcast has colors going Green, Brown, Gray, Yellow.
PlayStation has the colors going Green, Orange, Blue, Yellow.
The colors are different, but they are the same as diagrammed.

Alternatively, you can purchase a reproduction optical PCB to install into your Sanwa JLF in your stick of choice. The first contender is made by our resident PCB wizard, Toodles.

You might some PlayStation 1 era ASCII Answers had a purple wire (image courtesy of fujifilm, linked to by jdm714) instead of blue! But they wire up just the same. Bear in mind the diagram does not mean the ASCII Answer can exclusively be installed in a Mad Catz Arcade FightStick or with a Mad Catz PCB. It's just a reference diagram. It can be easily installed in any stick you want.

What about those reproductions? Resident PCB wizard Toodles has himself designed and manufactured an optical PCB designed for use in a Sanwa JLF joystick called the Spark. You can order one of these from his site. These are very reliable PCBs and are a very cost-effective solution if you want to try out an optical joystick for yourself.

Recently as well, Rollie Electronics in partnership with Happ Controls has begun reproducing the original FLASH 1 optical PCB designed for the Sanwa JLF joystick. I won't go into details, but you can find more information in their thread here:

http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-original-flash1-is-back-a-product-review.151531/

Anyways, enough background information. I'd like to propose the following discussion question:

What should we dub the ASCII optical joystick?

The term "ASCII Optical" is certainly easy to remember and is definitely precise enough for people to understand what you're talking about, but (it might be just me) I feel that it's very boring sounding. Happ/Wico had their "Perfect 360" bit going, a name signifying the perfection in movement that their optical joystick gave to the player. Sanwa's FLASH 1 had a reference to light in the name, and is almost synonymous with the phrase "High-Speed Response."

So what about ASCII? I personally think that we should dub it the "ASCII Answer" for two reasons:

1) It was, after all, ASCII's own "answer" to Sanwa's optical joystick.
2) For the deep, psychological part of the name, the term "answer" refers to how the ASCII optical joystick shall always be there to "answer" to whatever request you may make of it.

I dunno though; I thought my own attempt was pretty lame so let's get talking about the ASCII's new name or anything else optical.


Have at it gentlemen! :tup:
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Comments

  • Ketchy KechKetchy Kech RAZALASH Joined: Posts: 862
    glad that some good came out of hunt, i approve of this thread 100%! Although now rare, let's keep it alive and hope for a run of opticals, even if small, so that everyone can grab one ~
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  • beastSPLbeastSPL you must drink!! Joined: Posts: 448
    Im glad to be joining the club shortly ! good start on the info Ikagi !

    for anyone new to opticals and was curious how much a chunk of cash is... its anywhere in the ball park of 90-130ish for an ASCII, and anywhere between 200.00 and beyond for a FLASH1. We are just talking about the joystick itself. not to mention money but you got to be ready to devote some time hunting one down too, cant be lazy if youre looking for one thats for sure...
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  • meusmeus Joined: Posts: 2,051
    Good shit Ikag nice job on the post thread.
    Meus
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    tyhank you shoryuken1!!!!!!
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  • jdm714jdm714 Blue Blue Glass Moon Joined: Posts: 12,832
    Laugh.
    Will the your Dust Disc for ASCII Optical be the Answer?

    I just want to try out a Japanese Optical Joystick is all.
    Since 2006, I have wanted to try.

    I didn't show to SRK of my interest in one.
    But I really do want to experience.
    Still wanting to.

    I did get to play on Alex Valle's Wico Perfect 360.
    Housed in a Case from VOLTECH.
    It was cool feeling.

    But you know, it was circular.
    I want to know square.
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  • KyleKyle PS-14-Gangsta Joined: Posts: 4,735 mod
    Thanks a ton for this thread. I needed to close out of the Trading Outlet and quit buying things.

    I like "ASCII Answer." It's kind of corny but the name grows on you like the Wii. Maybe others have suggestions?

    Someone should hook jdm714 up. I'd let him borrow my stick to play around on if it wasn't the one I used. :smile:
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  • GalacticPhantomGalacticPhantom Joined: Posts: 263
    As a proud owner of an Ascii Answer ((booyah)), I gotta say Ascii's are great. I have one in one of my sticks and it's just amazing how smooth and sensitive they are. The stock spring however was pretty balls, but having just a standard JLF spring made the stick too loose. You kinda have to fiddle with it to get your perfect tension. For me, it's a LS-32 spring combined with a Home Depot spring.
  • ZweihanderZweihander Demon of Razgriz Joined: Posts: 51
    I like the name, emphasizes the switchless nature of an optical joystick since an answer is instant ect. ect. Still thinking of whether I should ever get one but maybe in the future, I'll attempt to hunt an optical down. Until then, good stuff.
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Not liking the name of ascii answer so i'm just gonna stick with ascii optical.

    but yeah, i gpt 2 ascii opticals and they are the best stick i've used so far. both of them are gutted from the ascii dreamcast stick but one of them feels looser than the other, maybe because of wear and tear.

    i didn't know that these sticks are getting rare and i bought them when they were still fairly cheap. nowadays, people charging $150 just for the stick alone is ridiculous.
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  • masturfadermasturfader Fr:Russia with glove Joined: Posts: 1,425
    People just call them "flash clones" or ascii optical. Why try to reinvent the wheel?

    Anyway, I'm a huge fan of optic joysticks. I use LS-32 springs for a bit more tension. Of course in my ASCII's everything is retrofitted w/ Sanwa parts where possible. (Shaft, actuator,spring holder etc.)
  • ImitrexImitrex Jiu-Jitsu!!!!! Joined: Posts: 1,291
    Honestly can't figure out the big deal with these things. Is it just because of rarity? I purchased an Ascii optical last year and can honestly say that I couldn't stand it. It was way too loose (yes I tried combining different springs etc). It seems much easier to feel the "corners" on an actual micro-switch stick than it does the optical.

    Used the thing for about two weeks, and replaced it with a JLF. It is now sitting in the box the JLF came in one of my computer desk drawers. I won't sell it though as I may give it another whirl some day.
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  • Ketchy KechKetchy Kech RAZALASH Joined: Posts: 862
    People just call them "flash clones" or ascii optical. Why try to reinvent the wheel?

    Anyway, I'm a huge fan of optic joysticks. I use LS-32 springs for a bit more tension. Of course in my ASCII's everything is retrofitted w/ Sanwa parts where possible. (Shaft, actuator,spring holder etc.)


    Probably because the connotation of the word "clone" makes it seem like its of less quality than the counterpart its modeled after, which apparently is not the case
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  • masturfadermasturfader Fr:Russia with glove Joined: Posts: 1,425
    Just call it an ASCII optical then. I prefer the sanwa's mainly for their forward thinking. How you can replace everything but the PCB. A gripe I have with the ASCII's is how the wires are soldered to the board. I crimped on QD's for easy swapping but its not the same storing a PCB with wires as opposed to one without.

    I love how you can engage an optical effortlessly with no pressure, the light-ning fast response is great. It did take some time to get used to, but now its my preference. I can still use a normal JLF, but if I get a choice, optics all the way!
  • GalacticPhantomGalacticPhantom Joined: Posts: 263
    I've never played with a Flash, but I heard both the Ascii's and the Flash's are very similar in performances.

    Can we get some actually confirmations and even some numbers ((engage distance mostly)) on both sticks? I think it would be interesting information to see.
  • masturfadermasturfader Fr:Russia with glove Joined: Posts: 1,425
    I do own both types. However, no hard numbers. Ive used them side by side and could not feel a difference. I was very surprised that slagcoin had no info in optical other than the perfect 360.
  • jdm714jdm714 Blue Blue Glass Moon Joined: Posts: 12,832
    There is no tactical or audible confirmation to know when the photodiodes register.
    Is that right?

    Jimmy up an LED Ball Top.
    Then would know.
    Laugh.
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  • masturfadermasturfader Fr:Russia with glove Joined: Posts: 1,425
    You are right JD on the no confirmation of input.

    I am actually. Kaytrim is selling me a kit. Not actually needed b/c I usually hit the gates. more for fun and looks...lol
  • KyleKyle PS-14-Gangsta Joined: Posts: 4,735 mod
    for anyone new to opticals and was curious how much a chunk of cash is... its anywhere in the ball park of 90-130ish for an ASCII, and anywhere between 200.00 and beyond for a FLASH1. We are just talking about the joystick itself. not to mention money but you got to be ready to devote some time hunting one down too, cant be lazy if youre looking for one thats for sure...
    Anyone know the original retail pricing? Toodles said he paid $50 a few years back. I'm guessing that was the going rate.

    Also, here's a picture of the Flash1. Per may have a better one somewhere.

    SanwaFlash2009.jpg
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  • jdm714jdm714 Blue Blue Glass Moon Joined: Posts: 12,832
    Yes, I saw that picture from AkihabaraShop.jp too.

    And yes, that is true what Toodles bought for.

    Himura Amusement sold complete Sanwa JLHS-8Y FLASH1 for $58 in 2006.
    Himura Amusement sold complete Sanwa HS-ASSY was $50 in 2006.

    Since 2001, Sanwa sell FLASH1.
    A Sanwa JLHS-8Y FLASH1 was 3,500? price.
    A Sanwa JLHS-8YT FLASH1 was 3,800? for price.
    A Sanwa JLHS-8S FLASH1 was 3,800? for the price.
    A Sanwa HS-ASSY was 2,900? for the price being sold.

    Went low stock in 2003, and said will be discontinued.
    In 2004, it became discontinued.
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  • Ikagi-chanIkagi-chan Loves his HRAP2SA! <3 Joined: Posts: 1,980
    Glad to know this thread is appreciated! :clapdos:

    Honestly, although it's been said for a long time now, I'm pretty sure that the reason the Sanwa HS-ASSY FLASH 1 hasn't been brought back into production was due to the fact that those PCBs were built for Sanwa by Wico, the dudes who did the optics for the original Happ Perfect 360. As a side note, modern Perfect 360s just use Wico's design. Happ is the one who manufactures them in China.

    Although the design is owned by Sanwa, I think the issue is that Sanwa doesn't find it worthwhile to make any more optical joysticks since all the arcade owners seem fine with the JLF and it was comparatively more expensive to produce than the JLF. It's like the whole OBSF-30 vs. OBSF-30RG thing. Although the OBSF-30RG performs far better, it's twice as costly to purchase, even if you don't have to change it out as often. Arcade operators probably didn't buy the FLASH 1 very often since it wasn't deemed really that much better of a bargain and would've been a bit of an extra pain to wire up due to the +5V requirement. And if people don't buy it, then eventually Sanwa will kill the product. Look at what happened with their old school legacy joysticks from the 1990-2000 era.

    In summary, I think that the comparatively large price tag of the FLASH 1 to the JLF coupled with the fact that Wico went under were the reasons it went out of existence and the fact that it probably didn't sell as well as they wanted before will make them apprehensive of making a new production run, considering the fact that they'll have to charter a completely new company to make the PCBs for them and that takes a LOT of resources. Unfortunately, I doubt that even AkihabaraShop.jp could convince Sanwa to make an exclusive run of their FLASH 1's for them either for those same reasons. It's not like the meshballs which are comparatively inexpensive to produce since they already have active balltop manufacturing.
  • jdm714jdm714 Blue Blue Glass Moon Joined: Posts: 12,832
    The Sanwa JLW-TM-8 is no more.
    But the Sanwa JLW-UM-8 is still going.
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  • Ikagi-chanIkagi-chan Loves his HRAP2SA! <3 Joined: Posts: 1,980
    The Sanwa JLW-TM-8 is no more.
    But the Sanwa JLW-UM-8 is still going.

    Thanks for that info jdm714. I edited my post for accuracy.
  • masturfadermasturfader Fr:Russia with glove Joined: Posts: 1,425
    I dont think its too farfetched to think the flash will be remade. The ASCII's use a PCB made by Omron. Guess who makes the microswitches that Sanwa uses?
  • Ketchy KechKetchy Kech RAZALASH Joined: Posts: 862
    So I have a question about the Old P360. My next project is a slim Happ case (gunna be made by Voltech) and I really would like to stay optical and use a P360. Ive heard all kinds of criticisms about the new one, and read that the problem can be solved by changing the acutator (?) making it smaller. Supposedly someone custom makes them for the P360. Can anyone provide some info? jdm? ;]
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  • Half-RoHalf-Ro Omae wa mo shinderu.... Joined: Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Although some people swear by the smaller actuator, I tried it and it just never felt like my Wico. I luckily ran across a new old wico p360 for my stick. But, yeah, new p360's are no good. I almost remember a thread about them and the light diodes being misaligned or something along the lines of that.
  • eczangiefeczangief GOD OF 1-HANDED ROM Joined: Posts: 1,877
    Cool thread. I had fun with my ASCII Optical ( which was sold to Kyle in a blitzkrieg strike ), but I also really like the reassuring click that comes with a microswitch stick. I wonder, did the engage distance vary from Flash to Flash (or clone to clone as it may be)?

    Also, how can I tell whether my p360 is a old or new generation?
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  • KyleKyle PS-14-Gangsta Joined: Posts: 4,735 mod
    I found this while digging around. TheRealNeoGeo gives a proper explanation of its demise. That thread is also entertaining on another level and is worth the read.

    http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=149069&p=5040677&viewfull=1#post5040677
    JLHS (Flash) was not made anymore because the sensors on it was not made by the manufacturer anymore so Sanwa had to end production, it has nothing to do with about beeing not popular I have gotten the answers from Sanwa themselves on this.

    The Flash is worth it IMO :), I had almost 20 in total of these masterpieces but they are all sold now :( (needed money).
    P.S: It is so nice playing Ikaruga on it!!!
    Also, how can I tell whether my p360 is a old or new generation?
    I'm pretty sure the old ones have WICO written on the base.
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  • Ikagi-chanIkagi-chan Loves his HRAP2SA! <3 Joined: Posts: 1,980
    I found this while digging around. TheRealNeoGeo gives a proper explanation of its demise. That thread is also entertaining on another level and is worth the read.

    http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=149069&p=5040677&viewfull=1#post5040677

    DAMN that was a good read. opips2 is WAY too good. :clapdos:

    Shame he never posts around here anymore...:sad:

    It's interesting that Sanwa had to discontinue due to issues finding a manufacturer for the sensors. I would've thought before anything that the whole out of business Wico would've caused the most issues with continued production. And Toodles' points about leaving it powered have made me freaking scared now. I'm definitely unplugging my sticks after every session. :confused:

    As for the Wico thing, Kyle's right; the old school Wico sticks had "WICO" printed on the base of the Perfect 360. Although truth be told, I haven't heard anything wrong with the Perfect 360s produced nowadays. I know Ed Farias from Arcade-in-a-Box claimed he stopped using the P360 due to the original pivoting issues, but as far as I know, they fixed the problem. Sure, they obviously won't feel the same as the original Wico build quality, but damn if it won't be close. At least, I assume so; I've never used a newer Perfect 360 before. Last one I played on was on a Marvel vs. Capcom 1 machine back in like 2000. I wish I was like jdm714 though; it would be tight to play on Alex Valle's stick! I wonder what kind he uses? A custom? Maybe a MAS Systems stick? :wonder:
  • jdm714jdm714 Blue Blue Glass Moon Joined: Posts: 12,832
    Valle has a Wico Perfect 360 in a VOLTECH Case.
    The Buttons are Happ Competition.

    Alex also carries around his TE.

    Laugh.
    He lives in my city.
    Few minutes from my house.
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  • masturfadermasturfader Fr:Russia with glove Joined: Posts: 1,425
    Wanna hear something funny, but really sad? I just got a reply from Per at Aki. He is so awesome!

    "Hello again,

    Funny that you ask, I threw away four off them before Christmas Day >_<.
    I will see if I have any left and e-mail back if I find any."
  • Ikagi-chanIkagi-chan Loves his HRAP2SA! <3 Joined: Posts: 1,980
    Wanna hear something funny, but really sad? I just got a reply from Per at Aki. He is so awesome!

    "Hello again,

    Funny that you ask, I threw away four off them before Christmas Day >_<.
    I will see if I have any left and e-mail back if I find any."

    Oh jeez, that would be an amazing proportion of suck if it turns out he did throw some away! Also, masturfader, as much as I know you want as many FLASH 1's as you can get, do hit me up if Per has any spares. I'm still trying to get my hands on one. :xeye:
  • jdm714jdm714 Blue Blue Glass Moon Joined: Posts: 12,832
    Ikagi-chan, after you get one, I will make a Thread for me.
    Laugh.
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  • masturfadermasturfader Fr:Russia with glove Joined: Posts: 1,425
    sorry guys. i was talking about flash stickers. not an actual PCB or anything like that.
  • Ikagi-chanIkagi-chan Loves his HRAP2SA! <3 Joined: Posts: 1,980
    Ikagi-chan, after you get one, I will make a Thread for me.
    Laugh.

    Yeah, absolutely! Go for broke jdm714. :rock:

    sorry guys. i was talking about flash stickers. not an actual PCB or anything like that.

    Oh, haha! Well, actually, that'd still be pretty nice to have around. Keep us posted on this one; I might just want to have a FLASH 1 sticker around just for the hell of it! :lol:
  • KyleKyle PS-14-Gangsta Joined: Posts: 4,735 mod
    Oh jeez, that would be an amazing proportion of suck if it turns out he did throw some away! Also, masturfader, as much as I know you want as many FLASH 1's as you can get, do hit me up if Per has any spares. I'm still trying to get my hands on one. :xeye:
    This post leaves me pessimistic about him having any. It's a few years old though.

    http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=55127.0
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  • dav3ybdav3yb Quarter Man Joined: Posts: 1,119
    someone resurrected a REALLY old thread some time ago, where toodles was apparently trying to make an optical pcb for a sanwa stick. i dont recall all that was said, or why the project was dropped/put on hold... but i could see someone fetching quite a bit from it.
  • jdm714jdm714 Blue Blue Glass Moon Joined: Posts: 12,832
    Toodles said too much price to make the Casing for PCB.
    And problem with the DC-DC.

    http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=126941

    flashpcbxv2.jpg

    flashcomparejo5.jpg

    455535853_43f1f92e20_b.jpg
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  • ToodlesToodles da Fetus of Gawd! Joined: Posts: 10,778
    The problem isn't the board (and the problem is not the sensors either, no matter what Sanwa may want to say. Paired IR LED and photosensors are easy to find). The problem is that I can't cheaply design and manufacture the housing needed to go on the board. PCB fabrication is popular and mature enough that getting boards professionally made is pretty damn easy and cheap. Injection molding can be cheap, but requires a hefty upfront cost for the milling of the mold. That's the problem I currently have, and where it's been stuck at for 2+ years. Protoypes for testing a design could easily run $200 each, and would have to be done before laying out, oh, $3,000 or so for an injection mold, and another $3000 for a run of 1,000. Injection molding is cheap, as long as you're looking at 100,000+ units in a batch.
  • jdm714jdm714 Blue Blue Glass Moon Joined: Posts: 12,832
    No one with money wants to help Toodles out? :sad:
    J&J SoCal Modding: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/113434/
    Visit J&J SoCal Modding's Blog for review of new Arcade Parts: http://jjsocalmodding.blogspot.com
  • brighennebrighenne Joined: Posts: 799
    Yeah photosensors are easy, they're abundant in paintball.

    Have you done any work on the housing so far? I actually know someone at a company that does molded products: http://fibernet.ipower.com/index.html

    I could talk to her and see if I can't get a decent price.

  • beastSPLbeastSPL you must drink!! Joined: Posts: 448
    I would donate as much as my expenses would allow me twice a month to toodles for a optical run.. We could call em " Toodles Vision " or something to that's a play on optical .. If you sold the pcbs(think of this as a Flash 1 upgrade kit) at a 50-70 And sold 1000 kits, I'm pretty sure profit would be dope, only if it were that simple. Let It be known if I get into some deep pocket cash I'll sponsor this project lol
    modding TEs to do funny things.
    need to add HSS-0130 to my collection!!
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