The Optical Joystick Discussion

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  • jdm714jdm714 Blue Blue Glass Moon Joined: Posts: 12,832
    kowal has all versions of the Perfect 360.
    Kit, Wico, and Happ.

    The very first was an aftermarket add-on kit to the Wico 8-Way Leaf Switch.
    The Optical was made by Perfect 360 to be added onto the Wico Joystick.

    Models were added in future to add to other Joysticks.
    You see the Adapter Plate to convert Happ Super and Ultimate.

    391.gif

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/Silverdoggg/WICO%20P360/DSCN0304.jpg
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/Silverdoggg/WICO%20P360/DSCN0305.jpg
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/Silverdoggg/WICO%20P360/DSCN0306.jpg

    And then Wico and Perfect 360 came together to make what you guys know as Wico Perfect 360.

    389.gif

    393.gif

    I have more information that I saved to do a super big writeup for this.
    But you guys have spilled it.
    I am doing no more.
    Laugh.
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  • Ketchy KechKetchy Kech RAZALASH Joined: Posts: 862
    Niiiice Info, JDM! i've never seen those things before....




    and those "optical" buttons look crazy =]
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  • megaultrasupermegaultrasuper Joined: Posts: 833
    A guy on arcadecontrols said he had some of those Wico P360 buttons in the past and says that they had "optical sensors". I don't really know what that means though. Does he mean a photogate?
  • spenzaliispenzalii Joined: Posts: 2,020
    what!?, blasphemous

    every single sf2 & sf3 cab i have ever used was happ concave. like ketchy said about the wico 360, there is this smash to the buttons too. makes playing so intense, tiring... BUT intense

    spenzalii knows

    Man, do I. Played so many battles in the local Time-Out I could have bought a cabinet back in the day. I could go on for hours about crappy cabinets, buttons that didn't work, sticks that only worked in one direction, you name it I've played it. Try doing anything with Chun Li without her forward kick...memories, I tell you! The sole reason I never got an arcade stick and made my own was they didn't have happ parts. No straight layout, no cherry switches, no heavy spring...not for the kid!

    Sorry guys, I've never played on an arcade machine in my life!
    It's awful, I know. Living here in Northern Virginia really doesn't give me much access to any arcades locally.

    Don't worry. I'm not that far out (PG County) and have seen the arcade scene as a whole disappear some years ago. You definitely missed some good times!
    And we build BALLER SHIT! (c) Matskat
  • kowalkowal smell like Sanwa Joined: Posts: 400
    all(6?) P360 ver:
    1. WICO Perfect 360 optical hub kit for all leaf switch base joystick
    2. WICO Perfect 360 spring action WICO leaf switch (soft spring:))
    3. WICO Perfect 360 Ultimate Joystick (with special hub) (I see only diagram on HAPP, I think optical hub fit too on CoinControl Joystick - Casino Stick)
    http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/50608300x.htm

    4. WICO Perfect 360 Super Joystick (with special hub) (I see this ver on e-bay, for me is best ver P360 base from Super is ideal)
    5. WICO Perfect 360 hub integrated look how normal HAPP P360 (hard spring)
    6. HAPP Perfect 360 hub integrated
    It's strange actually, the one person who I would've expected to have experimented on optical joysticks like a maniac would be kowal, but I didn't see a trace of either the Sanwa FLASH 1 or the ASCII Answer on his site. The only optical joystick I saw on his site was a WICO Perfect 360, and that was some really whack model I've never seen before

    I have ASCII
    there is no him on side but base from JLF is not useful to optics. Weak dynamics, joystick is too slow, any advantage resulting with optics.
    optics hub + pivot bearing + soft spring = mistake
    for me advantage from optics in only on fast centring stick - without pivot bearing
    believe me, this is not good joystick, only road and inaccessible
    now good FLASH equivalent is U360, I use original base from jap ver JLW, Ultimarc sell U360 with base from J-stick (JLW ver for Euro/US seller)
    theoretically base from JLW is better than from JLF (harder spring) but dynamics still sux, why? because U360 use pivot bearing.
    for shmup only SUZO UIC
    for fighter only Perfect 360
    Luftwaffe use only Suzo
  • jdm714jdm714 Blue Blue Glass Moon Joined: Posts: 12,832
    Man, six?
    That is crazy.
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  • brighennebrighenne Joined: Posts: 799
    Does anybody with a flash dust washer have a scanner? I would really appreciate a good scan of it :)

    edit- a really good picture from directly above might do.

  • hacksparrowhacksparrow Banned Joined: Posts: 331
    i did not mean laugh or kowal play optical. FOR SURE kowal plays hahaha. i mean if taeyoung, myoungshin, or crown made opticals
  • spenzaliispenzalii Joined: Posts: 2,020
    Just for kicks, I hooked my p360 up to a 3.7v lipo battery I had from a PS3 controller. It worked with no problem. Gives me hope for having a wireless stick with a P360. That said, I don't know what the current draw would be so how feasible it would be in practice is unclear. But at least in theory it could work...
    And we build BALLER SHIT! (c) Matskat
  • hacksparrowhacksparrow Banned Joined: Posts: 331
    i have a question about the tension.

    for a happ comp vs sanwa JLF there is a strong spring with 75of and soft spring with 200of

    now it is known on the 360 that the spring is ridiculously strong. how is the spring on the sanwa flash?

    ikagi? i know u have one lol, is the spring harder in the flash1 than a shelf JLF?
  • FreezerBFreezerB Joined: Posts: 1,343
    now good FLASH equivalent is U360, I use original base from jap ver JLW, Ultimarc sell U360 with base from J-stick (JLW ver for Euro/US seller)
    theoretically base from JLW is better than from JLF (harder spring) but dynamics still sux, why? because U360 use pivot bearing.

    Finally, some info about the U360!

    What are the exact issues with a pivot bearing stick in opticals?
    <Toodles> Seven boards assembled. All popped in and tested. All seven with the IC soldered on backwards.
  • jdm714jdm714 Blue Blue Glass Moon Joined: Posts: 12,832
    Hello guys.
    Look what I got.
    Guess what it is I show.
    all(6?) P360 ver:
    1. WICO Perfect 360 optical hub kit for all leaf switch base joystick
    2. WICO Perfect 360 spring action WICO leaf switch (soft spring:))
    3. WICO Perfect 360 Ultimate Joystick (with special hub) (I see only diagram on HAPP, I think optical hub fit too on CoinControl Joystick - Casino Stick)
    http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/50608300x.htm

    4. WICO Perfect 360 Super Joystick (with special hub) (for me is best ver P360 base from Super is ideal)
    5. WICO Perfect 360 hub integrated look how normal HAPP P360 (hard spring)
    6. HAPP Perfect 360 hub integrated

    ...

    With that, see which it is I have.

    Here are some pictures.

    70f1e2ad.jpg
    What is this? What could be?

    69235ede.jpg
    HEY! I see you.

    dfb9edb6.jpg

    9827e6bd.jpg
    Perfect 360, you so perfect.

    843ce627.jpg
    This is the Adapter to convert Joystick to use the Perfect 360.

    51634887.jpg
    Industrias Lorenzo; you tell me which model Joystick.

    1f909ec0.jpg
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    Visit J&J SoCal Modding's Blog for review of new Arcade Parts: http://jjsocalmodding.blogspot.com
  • megaultrasupermegaultrasuper Joined: Posts: 833
    I believe it might be a version the Il Compact joystick.

    Kowal discusses it here:

    http://www.kowal.itcom.pl/ArcadeParts_pliki/joyiLCJ48W.htm
  • jdm714jdm714 Blue Blue Glass Moon Joined: Posts: 12,832
    I know what I have.
    I'm asking you guys to say what I have.

    And yes, you are correct.

    This game ended too quick.
    That was not fun.
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    Visit J&J SoCal Modding's Blog for review of new Arcade Parts: http://jjsocalmodding.blogspot.com
  • kasprfotokasprfoto part time player, part time modder Joined: Posts: 774
    lol @ JDM. i got 2 of those same ones =)
  • kowalkowal smell like Sanwa Joined: Posts: 400
    please put good photo Super/Compcat or Ultimate ver I need this on my side front, up , down, izometrical, and hub photo

    next adapter ver - first P360? block terminals ver. nice
    wicop360ver7.jpg


    bonus: Its topic about optical joystick but I have base from Super Joystick with square restrictor:)
    Luftwaffe use only Suzo
  • XMetalXMetal Just Be Madness Joined: Posts: 368 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    hey i just wanted to post that my search for a sanwa flash has ended! i actually got two! one is a new one off of ebay sold by srk member and one from fujifilm who sold me his steve tren stick that comes with a flash. big thanks to ibeatu for the heads up on the stick fujifilm was selling! i def had a lot of support from you guys along the way, thanks so much everyone :smile:

    i also jsut wanted to add, i dunno what i did meus, but whatever it was, i'm sorry. we had done business before and it went smoothly, at least i thought we did, we both gave positive feedback and such, so i dunno what i did wrong but whatever it was, i'm sorry man.

    anyway, thanks again! i will be enjoying sanwa optical goodness soon :wgrin:
  • brighennebrighenne Joined: Posts: 799
    hey i just wanted to post that my search for a sanwa flash has ended! i actually got two! one is a new one off of ebay sold by srk member and one from fujifilm who sold me his steve tren stick that comes with a flash. big thanks to ibeatu for the heads up on the stick fujifilm was selling! i def had a lot of support from you guys along the way, thanks so much everyone :smile:

    i also jsut wanted to add, i dunno what i did meus, but whatever it was, i'm sorry. we had done business before and it went smoothly, at least i thought we did, we both gave positive feedback and such, so i dunno what i did wrong but whatever it was, i'm sorry man.

    anyway, thanks again! i will be enjoying sanwa optical goodness soon :wgrin:

    Congratulations!

    Now I've got to ask, do you have a scanner?

  • XMetalXMetal Just Be Madness Joined: Posts: 368 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    brighenne, naw i dont' have one. i dunno if i can but if i get access to one, i'll scan the washer for you
  • ibeatuibeatu 107 positive feedback gone :( Joined: Posts: 2,990
    hey i just wanted to post that my search for a sanwa flash has ended! i actually got two! one is a new one off of ebay sold by srk member and one from fujifilm who sold me his steve tren stick that comes with a flash. big thanks to ibeatu for the heads up on the stick fujifilm was selling! i def had a lot of support from you guys along the way, thanks so much everyone :smile:

    i also jsut wanted to add, i dunno what i did meus, but whatever it was, i'm sorry. we had done business before and it went smoothly, at least i thought we did, we both gave positive feedback and such, so i dunno what i did wrong but whatever it was, i'm sorry man.

    anyway, thanks again! i will be enjoying sanwa optical goodness soon :wgrin:


    no problem =p
  • Ikagi-chanIkagi-chan Loves his HRAP2SA! <3 Joined: Posts: 1,980
    hey i just wanted to post that my search for a sanwa flash has ended! i actually got two! one is a new one off of ebay sold by srk member and one from fujifilm who sold me his steve tren stick that comes with a flash. big thanks to ibeatu for the heads up on the stick fujifilm was selling! i def had a lot of support from you guys along the way, thanks so much everyone :smile:

    i also jsut wanted to add, i dunno what i did meus, but whatever it was, i'm sorry. we had done business before and it went smoothly, at least i thought we did, we both gave positive feedback and such, so i dunno what i did wrong but whatever it was, i'm sorry man.

    anyway, thanks again! i will be enjoying sanwa optical goodness soon :wgrin:

    Bit late to the party, but congratulations XMetal! I'm glad you managed to finally get your hands on a FLASH 1, 2 of them at that! :lol:
  • XMetalXMetal Just Be Madness Joined: Posts: 368 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    thanks ikagi chan :smile: did you end up finding any differences between the ascii and the sanwa?
  • charliedrumscharliedrums Joined: Posts: 127
    The problem isn't the board (and the problem is not the sensors either, no matter what Sanwa may want to say. Paired IR LED and photosensors are easy to find). The problem is that I can't cheaply design and manufacture the housing needed to go on the board. PCB fabrication is popular and mature enough that getting boards professionally made is pretty damn easy and cheap. Injection molding can be cheap, but requires a hefty upfront cost for the milling of the mold. That's the problem I currently have, and where it's been stuck at for 2+ years. Protoypes for testing a design could easily run $200 each, and would have to be done before laying out, oh, $3,000 or so for an injection mold, and another $3000 for a run of 1,000. Injection molding is cheap, as long as you're looking at 100,000+ units in a batch.

    OK so I was thinking about this and had an idea. What if you get a skilled wood worker to fashion a mock up housing a little bit smaller in dimensions than the actual housing and then vacuum form it. Smaller in dimension so when it?s vacuumed formed it comes out the right size. I?ll admit it?s going to take a whole lot of time to do them manually but was thinking more of like a test run. Making your own vacuum form machine is relatively easy and cheap. Just thought it could work to test a couple of housings to see if they fit. Here?s a video of vacuum forming to better explain what I?m talking about.
  • ComradeTaoComradeTao Rock It! Joined: Posts: 1,278
    Actually, you should look into reaction injection molding. It's similar to injection molding but instead of using heat to melt the plastic you mix two chemicals together that polymerize in the mold. That means you don't need an expensive heat/pressure resistant mold to produce whatever you're trying to make (in this case, the optical component housing) and you can produce smaller amounts more cost effectively.

    http://www.armstrongmold.com/pages/rim1-tech.html

    A place like this might be able to provide better info.
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  • AnnihilationscapeAnnihilationscape The World Warrior Joined: Posts: 720
    Welp, I was thinking about getting a second one for myself but I'm dead broke... so if anyone wanted to get an Ascii clone, here's your chance for a pretty good price:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/IMPORT-ASCII-Sega-Dreamcast-Arcade-Fighting-Stick-JP-/230435135998?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35a70121fe

    Total would come to $108, not bad at all for an optical.

    I'm not the seller, but that's the same person I got mine from. I hope someone from here snags it :)
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  • Ikagi-chanIkagi-chan Loves his HRAP2SA! <3 Joined: Posts: 1,980
    thanks ikagi chan :smile: did you end up finding any differences between the ascii and the sanwa?

    Haha, sorry to say XMetal, but I haven't done my tests yet. Been really busy as of late and I still haven't figured out a reliable way to test the throw and all. :xeye:

    But, rest assured, I'll test it in due time. :tup:
  • XMetalXMetal Just Be Madness Joined: Posts: 368 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    i wanted to post that after doing some tests, there seems to be a clear difference between the ascii optical and the sanwa flash. i didn't take measurements but i'm certain the engage distances on teh sanwa flash are shorter, thereby increasing the engage zones and evening out the difference in engage zones between the primary directions and the diagonals. the ascii seems like it's acutally a jlf clone in regards to the engage distances and engage zone. when you use the jlf or ascii on a octo gate or circle gate, the diagonals are much harder to hit because the diagonal engage zones are so small. in marvel, fast fireball motions don't come out sometimes because you miss the diagonal. i notice this mostly with sentinel doing fast fly and with cable's ahvb. with sentinel he simply dooesn't fly (or unfly) sometmise and with cable you usually get the super jump with fierce. this does NOT happen with the sanwa flash.

    i did lots of experimenting awhile ago with teh jlf and reducing the engage distance for using with the octo and circle gate. one thing i tried was putting pieces of paper inside the switches of the jlf, the way per does in his "ultimate mod", to reduce the engage distances, and increase the engage zones. this increase in engage zone benefits the diagonals much more than the primary directions, thereby evening out the discrepancy between the two, depending on how many pieces of paper you put in. the ascii optical seems to have the exact same engage zones as the jlf. the sanwa flash engage zone feels like it's a jlf modded with a piece of paper inside the switches, the thickness of which is 2 post-it notes. again i did'nt take exact measuerments or anything, but the feel difference is pretty dramatic and i'm surprised nobody mentioned this before.

    as a rule of thumb i would say if you like the square gate, go with the ascii. if you like octo or circle, go with the flash. hope people find this useful :smile:
  • masturfadermasturfader Fr:Russia with glove Joined: Posts: 1,425
    I use square on my Flash and Ascii with no problems whatsoever.
  • XMetalXMetal Just Be Madness Joined: Posts: 368 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    never meant to say anyone would have a problem, just pointed out that the jlf is made for the square specifically and the ascii's engage zone more closely resembles that of teh jlf than the sanwa flash does. my note is mostly for marvel players anyway as street fighter isn't nearly as execution heavy and the differences between input methods are more noticable in marvel
  • masturfadermasturfader Fr:Russia with glove Joined: Posts: 1,425
    With your tests did you retro fit the ASCII with a sanwa shaft? The shafts ate typically shorter in the ASCII.
  • XMetalXMetal Just Be Madness Joined: Posts: 368 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    actually yes i did. could that account for the difference? does the shorter shaft change the depth of the shaft below the control panel or only the height above it?

    edit: i'm looking at the ascii shaft i have here and it looks exactly the same as the jlf. i dunno if other models came with different shafts though. the ones i have come from the dreamcast models
  • Ikagi-chanIkagi-chan Loves his HRAP2SA! <3 Joined: Posts: 1,980
    actually yes i did. could that account for the difference? does the shorter shaft change the depth of the shaft below the control panel or only the height above it?

    edit: i'm looking at the ascii shaft i have here and it looks exactly the same as the jlf. i dunno if other models came with different shafts though. the ones i have come from the dreamcast models

    While some ASCII joysticks did have shorter shafts, the engage angle or distance won't be affected. The bottom half of the shaft has the same length as you'd find on an official Sanwa shaft, it's just that the top half is different. It's the same way with the budget Hori sticks actually; they're shorter than official Sanwa shafts, but they engage at the same distances.

    I'm glad to hear your impressions though, XMetal. To be honest, I'm like masturfader in this argument; I haven't felt a lick of difference between my ASCII Answer (Optical) and my Sanwa FLASH 1. :wonder:


    I will be getting concrete numbers in the near future so ya'll can relax if you're of the variety who rides on fact as opposed to testimonies. kowal, if you're still browsing this thread, how did you go about testing joystick engage distances and angles?
  • XMetalXMetal Just Be Madness Joined: Posts: 368 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    i see. thanks for your input ikagi, i been wanting to hear it. if you can get your hands on one, try to get a round gate made out of a two way gate so the throw is small. on the ascii basic fireballs just don't come out often. my statement was based on feel so while i feel pretty sure about what i found, i'd be very curious to see if i'm wrong. i'll be waiting on your exact measurements :coffee:
  • Ketchy KechKetchy Kech RAZALASH Joined: Posts: 862
    i see. thanks for your input ikagi, i been wanting to hear it. if you can get your hands on one, try to get a round gate made out of a two way gate so the throw is small. on the ascii basic fireballs just don't come out often. my statement was based on feel so while i feel pretty sure about what i found, i'd be very curious to see if i'm wrong. i'll be waiting on your exact measurements :coffee:

    Your findings may be the reason why I love the round gate on my sanwa flash......HMmMmM
    || MvC3: Ironman, Tron, Super Skrull || SSF4 v.2012: Guy || || BB CSII: Tsubaki Yayoi ||
    || UMvC3: R. Raccoon, Dr. Strange, Ryu || 3SOE: Elena || SkullGirls: Painwheel / Double (?) || *

    ---Avatar by Savaii64
  • eightballaheightballah Joined: Posts: 353
    I just purchased a DC FT Capcom Special stick. The stick is REALLY mushy feeling. I assume the spring (if they use springs?) is worn out. Can I use a JLF or Sem. spring? I haven't torn the stick apart yet. Is there other parts of it that fail?
  • stroggstrogg KKKramer Joined: Posts: 1,371
    Picked up a "Sanwa Modded" ascii optical last night for $100

    I'm not sure what that means exactly, it has an ascii octo gate, but what looks like a sanwa balltop/shaft. I'll have to wire it up soon.
    Need your stick modded?
  • NefarsusNefarsus Joined: Posts: 300
    Hi, i've been looking into trying out new sticks, and am definitely interested in trying out optical. I came across this stick http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/414F886PHYL.jpg . I see it is called the ASCII FT2 but haven't had any luck in finding information on it. When I search that name, it brings up a fightpad.

    Is this an optical stick? Has anyone had any experience with it? What is a general value on it? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
  • meusmeus Joined: Posts: 2,051
    Hi, i've been looking into trying out new sticks, and am definitely interested in trying out optical. I came across this stick http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/414F886PHYL.jpg . I see it is called the ASCII FT2 but haven't had any luck in finding information on it. When I search that name, it brings up a fightpad.

    Is this an optical stick? Has anyone had any experience with it? What is a general value on it? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

    No that stick doesnt have optical on it. Only micro-switches.
    Meus
    i fvcjumkne love street fighter
    tyhank you shoryuken1!!!!!!
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  • jdm714jdm714 Blue Blue Glass Moon Joined: Posts: 12,832
    What meus said.
    The First Post, First Page has a Quote of me showing which ASCII has Optical.
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  • LostcaseLostcase Capoeirista Joined: Posts: 449
    Going to scout flea makets around me for an ASCII stick, I'm bound to find one.
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