Aqua Snake, post: 3919752 wrote:
Is there anyone who thinks Zangief still has a disadvantage against Ryu?
Well you should probably watch Snake Eyez and Alex Valle's match at West Coast Warzone 2 and see how difficult Snake Eyez has it against Alex Valle.
......... with a Xbox 360 controller no less.
GoldenArch, post: 3919756 wrote:
Although, in fairness to me, it was 6-4 Ken at one point!
Jizzon, post: 3919759 wrote:
Aqua Snake, post: 3919763 wrote:
KAOSPIDER, post: 3919764 wrote:
Those are very interesting thoughts, Aqua. While you might be on to something regarding DeeJay, I'd be hardpressed to agree with you on Vega.
I think Fei's worst matches, in order are: Vega, Honda, DeeJay & Balrog. I'd argue that Sim is about even--or just slightly in Sim's favor. It is easier to get in against a quality Sim than it is a good Vega but I'm digressing.
Think about this Aqua: Vega doesn't really have to pressure in this match--he can simply read and react, making this a Very bad matchup. Fei has to do more guessing and take more risks in order to win.
Rekka < Vega cr.LP, cr. MP, cr. MK, cr.HK. It is also unsafe on block in most instances.
CW < flip kick, cr.HK to go underneath it. Or, when the CW hits, there is a good chance that Vega simply throws/flipkicks Fei anyway to reset the playing field or start crossup games.
Flame kick is highly unsafe against Vega as even the LK version is very vulnerable on block and that gives Vega a free poke/sweep. Additionally, Vega's cr.HK is mostly safe against the flame kick (it misses Vega most of the time)--again setting up a throw/poke situation.
What is worse is that when Fei finally manages to get close to Vega, he has an inferior throw range and the flame kick loses to the backflip kick. Sure, Vega takes a risk doing the backflip kick but use the LK version which is harder to punish online. Besides, most will use the flipkick as an anti-air to punish jumps and CW anyway.
Trying to outpoke Vega is a guessing game that I'm sure most Vega players will eagerly play. For every st. HK that Fei misses, he will eat a cr. HK for the knockdown/crossup shenanigans.
The knockdown will be more easily scored by Vega which exacerbates the fact that Fei is easily crossed up, despite the "option select" FK/CW. Add the very fast and maneuverable wall dive to the mix and it is possible to consistently disrupt Fei's counter inputs...in turn, setting Fei up for flying body slams.
The wall spike is just superfluous in this match and is really only used as a finisher or to punish Fei's jumping counters to wall dives. Those wall dives themselves are really just icing on the cake in this match, since Vega rarely has to leave his feet to win.
I've seen Branta and Blueblood tear through supreme Feis like Rice scot free enough to know that it isn't just a slight advantage for Vega.
In short, Vega has this match firmly in hand all around: close range (cr.LP anyone?), mid range, long range, and air superiority.
KAOSPIDER, post: 3919764 wrote:
Fei vs Vega Matchup
The Osprey, post: 3919767 wrote:
This reminds me a lot of the Blanka vs Vega Matchup. ... His walldives are 100% useless
philcito, post: 3919768 wrote:
Matchups for my characters, IMO.
vs Chun Li: 4-6 -> jab SRK is very good against Chun, I might not agree here.
vs Blanka: 5-5 -> Ken has a big advantage here, cr. mp + jab SRK
vs Guile: 4-6 -> The tatsu isn't as good but you should be able to win the fireball wars
vs Sagat:4-6 -> This may also be closer, Ken can use SRK to catch Sagat's limbs off a tiger shot
vs Zangief: 5-5 -> I feel this is 6-4 for Dee-Jay due to his slide and cr. mk
vs Vega: 4-6 -> This is the total opposite, its a horrible match for Vega (I main him)
Fulaani, post: 3919769 wrote:
That is not completely true. It's not like vs other characters but it can beat an upball clean if spaced properly. But then you can actually whiff punish it after Vega lands, still risky but Baconology was able to still be annoying with it against my Blanka. (bit laggy though).
Norieaga, post: 3919770 wrote:
Cool stuff, I left a few comments Not knocking your opinion or anything, just providing some insight which may change your mind! Then again, I'm no pro so take my changes at face value.
philcito, post: 3919768 wrote:
vs Balrog: 4-6
KAOSPIDER, post: 3919766 wrote:
To be fair, Rice has a great mixup/all around game. But that is neither here nor there.
I don't think that play style matters a ton in this match--a Vega that knows his stuff should be able to handle this pretty readily. (It's too bad that Fei can't out-turtle Vega.)
What sort of mixups are you referring to? Anticipatory jump in attacks/crossups on a sliding Vega? Single or double rekkas into CW/flame kick/throw? Baiting slide and then attempting overhead?
Tick throw/fake tick attempts?
These are all risky actions. Even tick throw attempts aren't a sure bet. If Vega times the counter throw properly, you're thrown back into the corner and Vega is out of it...but cornering an alert Vega is a tremendous task.
I'm not saying that Vega has absolutely no risk in this match (any action or inaction is inherently a risk) but I'd venture to say that his necessity for risk-taking is far less than Fei's. Can you point out any significant risks that Vega has to take in order to overcome Fei?
Finally, if Vega chooses to mixup, he has the edge there as well.
You're right about the flipkick, Aqua. I should have added that I'm on PSN where things seem faster--sometimes so fast that you don't see them happen.
jdm, post: 3919774 wrote:
Fei will always have a disadvantage against DeeJay. 7-3 DeeJay.
Aqua Snake, post: 3919776 wrote:
It's all about baiting in this matchup. No need to FK, or CW to fight Vega. The two things he has to defend himself on wakeup is Flipkick and reverse throw (He has what, 2 throw buttons? Either way reverse throw is risky). Him being a charge character makes it a tad easier. It's risky for both players which is why its not that bad of a matchup IMO. But Fei's reward for baiting correctly is much bigger since Vega can't produce huge damage for mistakes as well as Fei can.
If only you were on XBL, then maybe we could go hunting for all the good Vega players. :(
GoldenArch, post: 3919775 wrote:
A couple of questions:
1. What's usually your opening move against Boxer?
2. How often do you safe jump after a knock down?
philcito, post: 3919780 wrote:
my usually opening moves against rog are:
1. wait for him
2. Jump backwards... jab jab if he jumps/ strong srk if he tries to make some of those charged moves then i hadouken.
I usually safe jump against every character, then jump over him/her with a strong punch canceled to tatsu(ask to OneHitParry about our matchups) if he blocks i kara cancel to kneebash or safe jump, medium kick, crouch medium kick canceling to hadouken or an overhead kick.
Last time we went ftw 10.
KAOSPIDER, post: 3919777 wrote:
Do you have any videos that one could refer to? I have a hard time imagining that the Vega-Fei match can be boiled down to simply baiting. It would seem that, at the very least, Fei would sustain poke/throw damage if he guesses wrong. How do you overcome Vegas that create space and then sit on down-back? If Fei Rekkas, he'll be poked and if he jumps, he'll be flipkicked/st.HK.
And I just looked over the old Vega thread and they essentially echoed my sentiments. The only chance that Fei has to consistently win this match is for the Vega to cease turtling.
Big O, post: 3919789 wrote:
At first I felt that Zangief beat Ryu and Bison, by about 60-40. Now I think the fake fireball and smart usage of his super (which he builds so easily with lk tatsus) keeps the fight about even. Bison can be played safe enough to avoid a lot of Zangief's tick setups, and his new dr lets him escape occasionally.