How to fix Mortal Kombat

124

Comments

  • Hanzo_HasashiHanzo_Hasashi Primal Rage rules Joined: Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I love MK II pacing overall. Lots of footsies and spacing. If you get nervous you could get killed in seconds. Jax and Mileena ruin the game to some exent IN MY OPINION. MK I is fun if you ban Sonya completely (yeah that hard is) lol.

    UMK3 and MKT n64 are my personal favs in that order.

    Ninja edit: I have yet to see a true HIGH level match of MKD, MKA, MKDC offline and MKDA. From MK4 I have seen it all. but for those "new" 3d games... Im still waiting...
  • ShotgunSteveShotgunSteve Goes by Henners Joined: Posts: 575
    UMK3 I've been playiong online lately feel free to add me on XBLA anyone. I'd like to learn more!
  • Tim StaticTim Static Kid Thunder!! Joined: Posts: 4,635 mod
    I UMK3 on the same stick I play SF with. American Layout, Sanwa parts (I have another with HAPP/iL parts). layout is like this

    HP HK R
    LP LK B

    my stick is wired for

    X Y LT
    A B RT

    It feels pretty natural to me as a layout. Sticks wouldn't be a problem if Midway let people customize their controls, for god sakes WHY NOT. Blah.

    Question, i can't find it on the UltimateMK.com, concencus on Trilogy? I have a feeling it's avoided besides to make exploit videos - what about it is not liked?

    wink, wink :wgrin:
  • BleeperBleeper Joined: Posts: 122
    Kinda off topic but worth mentioning to give a bit of "credibility" to MK.

    Watch this:



    Its a match from a recent MK Trilogy N64 tournament on Dominican Republic. Probably the VERY BEST MKT n64 players worlwide unless proved wrong. Even with that ass broken MKT engine (wich I love) the game can be mad fun at high level.

    Watch it and behold, pure madness, sick blocking and godlike reflexes. These guys are too good.

    EDIT:

    The next 2 parts:





    I wish I could travel there to play andget my ass whooped =(

    it actually looks like a serious game. Colour me surprised.
  • tatakitataki misplaced Joined: Posts: 7,692

    Oh wow I totally forgot about MK's funny layout.
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  • Smashbro29Smashbro29 Waiting for the new Framemeister... Joined: Posts: 7,185
    Is SF's storyline really worth saving?

    Because even SFA's storyline wasn't half as good as MK's, not to mention SF story universe and characters aren't exactly groundbreaking.
    :D

    I suppose you're right, I was outta line, however SF's story is still relevant because the new games are good, MK not so much.
  • ShotgunSteveShotgunSteve Goes by Henners Joined: Posts: 575

    nice. it's all preference though, i didn't play MK in the arcades except the very first time I played it. Playing it on a SF type layout for me is more comfortable.
  • GosBroDansFanGosBroDansFan Joined: Posts: 379
    I don't think the proportions are to blame for that, it's more that everybody, well, has the exact same normals. Same sweeps, same punches, etc. You can still change up the normals with realistic proportions.
    That said, of course there's also short and tall, etc people in the world if they wanna diversify the characters. Realistic proportions doesn't have to mean everybody's the same.

    That would be true if everybody had the exact same normals. Luckily they don't. As was said, pallet swaps share normals and I'd rather not have pallet swaps at all personally, but as you play UMK3 you figure out who has the more and less useful normals. Sonya's D+LK, Kano's sweep, Liu's kick, Shang's Uppercut, etc. Throughout the game there are differences in the moves. Enough differences that it is incorrect to say everybody has the same. They just aren't always apparent if you don't know the game well.

    I think adding more variety to the moves could be interesting, but keeping normal human proportions and allowing there to be subtle differences as opposed to only having blaringly obvious ones makes the game more interesting to me, which is why I'd like to see the engine resurrected in a new game developed by the community to retain everything great and nothing worthless about UMK3.
  • Tim StaticTim Static Kid Thunder!! Joined: Posts: 4,635 mod
    Thank goodness for Shock and Dreemer :wgrin:
  • YieArKungFuYieArKungFu c.FP > you Joined: Posts: 240
    Why is everyone so obsessed with "fixing" Mortal Kombat. Face it, I loved Mortal Kombat up until UMK3 but damn. The series has been around since what 92 and has produced two "good" games, I wouldn't even say great. I mean you take out the violence and the fatalities and the graphics that were cutting edge at the time and Mortal Kombat would be forgotten like every other fighting game that came out in the mid 90's. Meanwhile what the mid 90's were to crappy fighting games, 2008-now are to good fighting games. MK2 and UMK3 are nostalgia that are fun to play every once in a while but in the end the underlying mechanics were never solid. I guess to answer your question the best way to "fix" Mortal Kombat is to make a game that is nothing like Mortal Kombat but at that point why not just make original characters and make something fresh. It'd be like restoring a dilapidated house. For the amount of work you put in you could build a new house that would be way better.
    TonFun is top teir.
  • tatakitataki misplaced Joined: Posts: 7,692
    That would be true if everybody had the exact same normals. Luckily they don't. As was said, pallet swaps share normals and I'd rather not have pallet swaps at all personally, but as you play UMK3 you figure out who has the more and less useful normals. Sonya's D+LK, Kano's sweep, Liu's kick, Shang's Uppercut, etc. Throughout the game there are differences in the moves. Enough differences that it is incorrect to say everybody has the same. They just aren't always apparent if you don't know the game well.

    I think adding more variety to the moves could be interesting, but keeping normal human proportions and allowing there to be subtle differences as opposed to only having blaringly obvious ones makes the game more interesting to me, which is why I'd like to see the engine resurrected in a new game developed by the community to retain everything great and nothing worthless about UMK3.

    3D fighting games like Tekken and VF maintain human proportion (they are 3D but their character models are not cartoonish but rather realistic) yet they have different moves for each character.
    Hell, even when 2/3 of the cast in Tekken has d/f+2 uppercut launcher, it still has different ranges (that you can really see) and totally different properties for each one (some are safe on block but launch only on counter, some are safe only launch standing, some launch every time but aren't safe etc.)
    The differences in UNK3 though are still too subtle, even if they do exist and have great impact.
    And is it really a crime to ask for them to look different from each other? It's the most logical thing to ask IMO.
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  • Hanzo_HasashiHanzo_Hasashi Primal Rage rules Joined: Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    3D fighting games like Tekken and VF maintain human proportion (they are 3D but their character models are not cartoonish but rather realistic) yet they have different moves for each character.
    Hell, even when 2/3 of the cast in Tekken has d/f+2 uppercut launcher, it still has different ranges (that you can really see) and totally different properties for each one (some are safe on block but launch only on counter, some are safe only launch standing, some launch every time but aren't safe etc.)
    The differences in UNK3 though are still too subtle, even if they do exist and have great impact.
    And is it really a crime to ask for them to look different from each other? It's the most logical thing to ask IMO.

    Try a 50% mid screen combo with Ermac on Sheeva. Come back with the results and tell me if its the same that lnding it on Lao for example
  • ShotgunSteveShotgunSteve Goes by Henners Joined: Posts: 575
    I like that all the characters have the same normals. I never thought that was a problem. Allowed finding a character to fit your style easier. Sure it's the end result of laziness on Midways part but I like it. Though the properties of differences could be exaggerated between characters more. Everyone has similar normals still - but the differences are more apparent for hit boxes, priority, lag, etc.
  • NemoDCNemoDC Joined: Posts: 271
    Kinda off topic but worth mentioning to give a bit of "credibility" to MK.

    Watch this:


    The dude's invisi-Smoke was the bee's knees. =D
  • Hadouken foxHadouken fox Arcade stick Newb Joined: Posts: 101

    1) 2D
    3) Mortal Kombat 2 gameplay style
    3) add Hit Stun
    4) More variation with "normal" moves
    5) 3 games and all had a very abusable Back+LK sweep...let's change that
    6) back to block
    7) add super meter
    8) change run to FF instead of a button
    9) maybe a parry or just defend defense move
    10) less abusive LP spam.

    now looking at these view points this looks like you put up a very valid idea on how the game could be improved if midway would fucking listen.

    Most 3d fighters don't work very well IMHO the only one that seems to work the best would be tekken.

    as for Mk2 style game play i will agree with you on that. the flaws in programing did lead up to some good juggles, combos ect. and to see that again in the mk franchise would be a refreshing start.

    as for a hit stun feature i could take it or leave it. i know it's to keep other players from saving their asses with nothing but blocking but i don't see a need for that in MK.

    as for normal moves lets just say this. 4 attack buttons may be nice. but...we could do a bit more with combonations with the buttons and which way the directions went. sort of like with deadly aliance.

    as for the back+Lk sweep move. yeah lets take that out. that allways leads to trip spamming.

    setting block to holding back would make it easier for the player to set up a good defense and possibly free up the controls for say 3 styles of attacks you know light, medium and hard.

    adding a supper could be a good idea to say add extra damage to some of the characters special moves. Ie: a special grab move with scorpion's harpoon.

    Double tapping foward to dash would be easier instead of holding a run button. and as said before could free up controlls for 3 variations of attack strengths.

    as for parries they put those in since Mk armmageddon but i think they could change that for instead of givnig you only 3 per match they could set it up like in SFIII 3rd strike.

    and as for cutting down on LP spam...well yeah im against turtleing all the way so i'll agree with you on that.
    Hadouken Fox....Showing furry love for his fellow gamers.

    :qcf:+:hp: = The only move noobs know.
  • Hadouken foxHadouken fox Arcade stick Newb Joined: Posts: 101
    I love MK II pacing overall. Lots of footsies and spacing. If you get nervous you could get killed in seconds. Jax and Mileena ruin the game to some exent IN MY OPINION.
    UMK3 and MKT n64 are my personal favs in that order.

    i will agree with you Mileena and jax and possibly Kitana all seem to have this string of programming that causes them to quickly Counter anything you throw at them. Mellina can counter with her telleport kick, and roll attack, jax has his ground pound, air slice and also his air throw and Kitanna has this really annoying habbit of being an Anti-air fighter.
    Hadouken Fox....Showing furry love for his fellow gamers.

    :qcf:+:hp: = The only move noobs know.
  • Black ShroudBlack Shroud Spirits Society Joined: Posts: 1,167
    as for parries they put those in since Mk armmageddon but i think they could change that for instead of givnig you only 3 per match they could set it up like in SFIII 3rd strike.
    MKA had unlimited parries
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    [ Ten Chi Kai Byaku ] at [ http://spirits.kaillera.ru/tckb/ ]
  • sPaB RoGsPaB RoG Low Tier No Fear Joined: Posts: 884
    they should beta test there games =|
    El Fuerte - Whole Lotta Magic
    "There's a difference between Talent and Genious"
  • Tim StaticTim Static Kid Thunder!! Joined: Posts: 4,635 mod
    now looking at these view points this looks like you put up a very valid idea on how the game could be improved if midway would fucking listen.

    Most 3d fighters don't work very well IMHO the only one that seems to work the best would be tekken.

    as for Mk2 style game play i will agree with you on that. the flaws in programing did lead up to some good juggles, combos ect. and to see that again in the mk franchise would be a refreshing start.

    as for a hit stun feature i could take it or leave it. i know it's to keep other players from saving their asses with nothing but blocking but i don't see a need for that in MK.

    as for normal moves lets just say this. 4 attack buttons may be nice. but...we could do a bit more with combonations with the buttons and which way the directions went. sort of like with deadly aliance.

    as for the back+Lk sweep move. yeah lets take that out. that allways leads to trip spamming.

    setting block to holding back would make it easier for the player to set up a good defense and possibly free up the controls for say 3 styles of attacks you know light, medium and hard.

    adding a supper could be a good idea to say add extra damage to some of the characters special moves. Ie: a special grab move with scorpion's harpoon.

    Double tapping foward to dash would be easier instead of holding a run button. and as said before could free up controlls for 3 variations of attack strengths.

    as for parries they put those in since Mk armmageddon but i think they could change that for instead of givnig you only 3 per match they could set it up like in SFIII 3rd strike.

    and as for cutting down on LP spam...well yeah im against turtleing all the way so i'll agree with you on that.
    i will agree with you Mileena and jax and possibly Kitana all seem to have this string of programming that causes them to quickly Counter anything you throw at them. Mellina can counter with her telleport kick, and roll attack, jax has his ground pound, air slice and also his air throw and Kitanna has this really annoying habbit of being an Anti-air fighter.


    You ressurect this stupid thread for THIS? I see your sig and yet i read a total noob post.

    I will say this as nicely as i can:

    gtfo.

    thank you
  • Tim StaticTim Static Kid Thunder!! Joined: Posts: 4,635 mod
    they should beta test there games =|

    The arcades died.
  • Pablo_the_MexPablo_the_Mex Blond Kanye Status Joined: Posts: 8,181
    MK is all about that furry love.

  • MENTHOLMENTHOL PUMP IT Joined: Posts: 219
    Boon's latest tweet:

    Here are those MK9 beta codes I promised you: TEERH-ONRUS-TNUBT-NO Hope you enjoy the beta! Just kidding...I ain't got shit. ;) about 14 hours ago via web

    (THERES-NO-RUN-BUTTON)

    We're fucked. Let's start getting hype for MK10 instead.
  • MEGAMAZMEGAMAZ Joined: Posts: 43
    Old thread but;

    The only thing MK needs to be good is insane graphics and insane ammounts of gore. Make it look like God of War 3 and it will do very well.
  • nk4enk4e Trying to adapt... Joined: Posts: 680

    I saw a T5 cabinet with that layout
    "The ultimate skill is to take up a position where you are formless.... Those who are able to adapt and change in accord with the enemy and achieve victor are called divine...."-Sun Tzu
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    So your master plan of "fixing" MK turns out to be transforming it into Street Fighter?
  • TimstuffTimstuff Chillin' out maxin' relaxin' all cool Joined: Posts: 434
    IMO turning MK into Street Fighter would be dumb. They should just try to make it play like an updated version of UMK3 first and foremost and then add from there, since that's the most well liked game in the series by hardcore fans and is generally the most balanced (although not without problems, obviously). I don't mind modifying how regular punches and kicks work to be a little more Tekken-like, but in general I don't want them to loose the "Mortal Kombat-ness" of the series by just aping another fighting game wholesale and adding in a few MK elements.

    Maybe they should consider dropping the 3rd movement plane all together and just using 2D hit boxes the way SF4 does. Basically, I want the next MK to be to UMK3 what SF4 was to SF2T (although in all fairness, SF did have some excellent installments in between like SFA3 and SF3TS). A return to order for the series with modernized gameplay.

    As for my button layout preference, in MAME I prefer the setup of HP, B, HK, LP, R, LK for MK2 with the top row being HP, R, HK in MK3. It really annoys me that in niether the Armageddon port of UMK3 or the PS3 port of MK2 that I can customize the button layout, though, because I just don't feel right having the punch and kick buttons right next to each other.

    While MK's button layout isn't versatile enough for me to feel like it's worth building a stick around, I gotta say whenever I see a HAPP stick it makes me smile. :D
  • Hadouken foxHadouken fox Arcade stick Newb Joined: Posts: 101
    MKA had unlimited parries

    oh wait yeah. but they had you hold down a button while pulling back or something when a simple tap foward and expert timing with your enemie's attack would have done well.
    Hadouken Fox....Showing furry love for his fellow gamers.

    :qcf:+:hp: = The only move noobs know.
  • SheikhDeeboSheikhDeebo Joined: Posts: 12
    mortal kombat always had a weak fight engine, in all honesty I can't see it reaching the standards of today's fighters, unless there's a complete change. Although I must admit I did enjoy MK Deception as a side game to play
    (Insert Royal Name)Deebo

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  • TimstuffTimstuff Chillin' out maxin' relaxin' all cool Joined: Posts: 434
    The problem I had with MKD was that it had that lame dial-a-combo system instead of using actual timing to pull the combos off, an d the combos felt a bit too pre-determined. Even with those problems though, I thought that the game was a blast to play and me and my friends/brothers got a lot of playtime out of it, even with the deeper and more refined Soul Calibur 2 on the shelf too.
  • nano5896nano5896 BlightedAgent Joined: Posts: 282
    IMO, just make it like UMK3, 2D, and fix the juggle system. That's what I want from MK.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Make Kung Lao's Mortal Kombat: Armageddon ending happen irl, imo.
  • Black ShroudBlack Shroud Spirits Society Joined: Posts: 1,167
    2 examples of what's wrong with MKD (without taking infinites into account)
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  • Tim StaticTim Static Kid Thunder!! Joined: Posts: 4,635 mod
    IMO, just make it like UMK3, 2D, and fix the juggle system.

    fix the juggle system how?

    MK2 - UMK3 pretty much had it right, if not damn near perfect
  • Black ShroudBlack Shroud Spirits Society Joined: Posts: 1,167
    The darkest secrets of MK are finally out:
    full list of MK9 clues - Midway Boards(c)
    [ Samurai Shodown Spirits Society ] at [ http://spirits.kaillera.ru ]
    [ Ten Chi Kai Byaku ] at [ http://spirits.kaillera.ru/tckb/ ]
  • Tim StaticTim Static Kid Thunder!! Joined: Posts: 4,635 mod
    The darkest secrets of MK are finally out:
    full list of MK9 clues - Midway Boards(c)

    your killin me, bro.

    you need to be banned from there :)
  • Black ShroudBlack Shroud Spirits Society Joined: Posts: 1,167
    People out there already think that Im some guy who is suddenly hatin' on all "the best" 3D MK games, which goes against their opinion.

    Also an example of their logic: If you are hating on an 3D MK game, you are hating on work of Boon, and if you are hating on work of Boon, you are a hater to MK as a franchise, and therefore the #1 enemy of these self-proclaimed "true MK fans" :D
    [ Samurai Shodown Spirits Society ] at [ http://spirits.kaillera.ru ]
    [ Ten Chi Kai Byaku ] at [ http://spirits.kaillera.ru/tckb/ ]
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    People out there already think that Im some guy who is suddenly hatin' on all "the best" 3D MK games, which goes against their opinion.

    Also an example of their logic: If you are hating on an 3D MK game, you are hating on work of Boon, and if you are hating on work of Boon, you are a hater to MK as a franchise, and therefore the #1 enemy of these self-proclaimed "true MK fans" :D

    Haha, that made me laugh :'). I personally stopped playing most MK games after MKD, and after replaying a little bit UMK3 with friends, I can safely say if they return to this formula, I'd be game.

    Seriously, UMK3 was pure fun, even when I was younger I remember playing the heck out of MK3 on PC xD.
  • ShotgunSteveShotgunSteve Goes by Henners Joined: Posts: 575
    Bumping a thread to look back on.

    How many of our "ideas" and "concepts" to fix the franchise ended up in MK9?

    I know alot of mine did :D
  • grandabxgrandabx Flameater Joined: Posts: 654 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Fix mk9?

    I think the game is too focused on special moves and needs a better back and forth with normals, command normals and specials. Specials have too much priority and every move/action in the game should have a counter or two(or three). Like having Kung Lao's spin attack being able to be countered by certain command attacks.

    Give everyone more diversity in their non-special moves. Add Command air attacks, get rid of the back-kick stiff kick everyone has in the air(the same with the current overhead punch) and add more variety in ground attacks. Like more attacks you have to block high or low. All air attacks should require you to block high. How about having some throws that only grab a low-blocking player?

    It needs more ways to start a combo then just the basic standing position. Low chains, air chains and chains that start during specific frames in a successful grab attempt. things like that.

    X-ray should be deeper than just a generic high damage comeback move. Since they already added exterior damage, why not have mini X-rays(that can be countered) that do small amounts of damage, but weaken specific special/normal/ attacks your opponent can do depending on which limb was injured. I wrote in more detail about this on the "james chen thinks mk9 lacks depth" thread in the mk section.

    I just think they need to build more around their block button so it doesn't seem so safe. Also making each character a specific type(grappler, zoner, rushdown, ect.) so they can focus on making them the best they can be in that field.

    What people want I can say in two words:discovery and creativity.
    I remember when people thought Bison doing the psycho crusher back and forth across the screen in SF:CE was cheap.
    GGXX: As long as I apply myself, I can win with anyone.
  • Exia 00Exia 00 #deathtoanime Joined: Posts: 904
    Fix online. Some balance tweaks.

    By playing this game you can tell it's unique. Making it more like other fighters isn't fixing it; it's changing it to your preference.

    Not directed towards anyone. Just seems like the majority doesn't exactly want to fix the game.
  • KhentimentiuKhentimentiu Scrub-tacular Joined: Posts: 417
    the negative edge needs to go too lots of people are having problems with it, and personally id like to see the ends of the stages more defined sometimes its hard to tell if your in a corner
  • ShotgunSteveShotgunSteve Goes by Henners Joined: Posts: 575
    Fix mk9?

    you didn't really read the thread did you lol? It was before MK9 was officially announced, and it was just talking about how the franchise in general could be fixed. lol
  • otterotter CFN: otter- Joined: Posts: 4,650
    they still have a problem with generic movesets. Identica aerials, uppercuts, and to a lesser extent, sweeps. also wtf is up with half the cast being able to teleport, lock on, and attack with one motion. that is not fun. there is no thinking or ambiguity.
  • AzuroAzuro C L E B O Y Z Joined: Posts: 1,132
    I don't get how teleport attacks aren't fun, but to each his own. They are designed with MK9's mechanics in mind, so obviously they fit a lot better than they would've otherwise.
    www.testyourmight.com
  • SkuddSkudd Downback Fighter IV Joined: Posts: 216
    Holy shit how did I miss this thread?
    6) back to block
    Get out get out get out get out get out get out get out get out get out get out get out. This is not Street Fighter, this is a bad stupid goddamn idea, GET THE FUCK OUT.

    Seriously, lol, that is the worst idea ever, don't ever bring it up again.
  • KwonKwon Joined: Posts: 41
    The Netcode for starters!

    In a week i am sure.
  • ahdonyeahdonye Joined: Posts: 165
    So your "fix" for Mortal Kombat is turning it into Street Fighter? While you're at it, why don't you simply go play SF?

    FYI there's a "parry" in the 3D MKs for PS2, it's not like the SF3 one and more akin to SFA's Alpha Counter than anything else, though. Also I think it's cute how you equate "parry and just defend" mechanics with the immediate betterment of another series. :rofl:

    ...While I'm at it, sorry to everyone else if this is a troll thread and I answered it seriously.

    So hit stun is only a SF thing? Never knew that ;)
  • ahdonyeahdonye Joined: Posts: 165
    Holy shit how did I miss this thread?

    Get out get out get out get out get out get out get out get out get out get out get out. This is not Street Fighter, this is a bad stupid goddamn idea, GET THE FUCK OUT.

    Seriously, lol, that is the worst idea ever, don't ever bring it up again.

    Way to go mr. internet bully
  • ShotgunSteveShotgunSteve Goes by Henners Joined: Posts: 575
    edited June 2013
    accidental post
  • OrochiDemonOrochiDemon Joined: Posts: 1,537
    How about no more buttons for blocking, running and getting rid of changing stances?
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