SVC - When It's So Bad It's Good

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  • Ben ReedBen Reed c. LK is my co-pilot Joined: Posts: 1,010
    This game...it really is kinda hard to hate. It fell just short of being good (if it had been just a little longer in production, REAL production, not development hell), and there's some fun cheesy stuff in there, but I wouldn't play it for anything other than a laugh.

    The aesthetic presentation was gorgeous, the mechanics were just all over the place. Putting aside the whole issue of GCFS, hit detection was all over the place, moves whiffed absolutely inexplicably at weird ranges, and the charge system sucked no less than six flavors of dick. (One of which was mule, for certain.) Playing Vega/Bison was like shotgunning bleach in SvC. Shadaloo deserves better.

    Guile's near-nonexistent charge time on Sonic Boom was pretty hilarious, as was Chun-Li and her, uh, everything.

    I'd be tempted to learn the game if I could ever find a properly wired SvC cabinet. As early as 3-4 years ago every damn hole-in-the-wall Orlando arcade had SvC (one of them even had two), and the only one on which the buttons were ever wired properly was the first one I ever played on God knows how long ago. (RIP Fashion Square Mall arcade, as mall arcades go you did not suck dick.)
    This post is +0 on block.
  • Branh0913Branh0913 Keep away king Joined: Posts: 3,642
    See I don't get that. Tron alone does not beat MSP; although you can say it makes a bad match-up because MSP's purpose is to get in and abuse Psylocke. But you're not looking at the entire match-up. Say whoever's on point (mags/storm) realizes that Tron is making trouble. They can play smart, bait the assist, use Storm hurricane instead, switch tron in, etc. Having Tron can make the match-up difficult but its not exactly counter picking MSP; they still I have lots of options. Also tron isn't invincible, so just as she comes out she can be beaten by another assist.

    What I mean by your example doesn't make sense is that God Tier is God Tier because they do everything Low tier does better. Saying they can use the same tools doesn't make the game "better" broken, its still broken, all the characters have access to the same tools and the tiers don't change. If you're point is the system is more creative and you can do more with it, than yeah that's true. Its the only I reason I play.

    As for you saying Geese/Zero/Orochi/whoever play the same and they're unbeatable, I don't agree. I also don't see how they play the same. Its similar to the 3S discussion in the lounge in that the parry is universal and all characters benefit from it but the top tier benefit the best. This is true in SvC, but at the same time I think its better for the low tier to have it than without.



    They have different movesets but all have the same goal. As a matter of fact, anyone in the game has the same goal. This is what you do. turtle, build meter, turtle, wait for one to attack, GCFS, win. Seriously, if you're doing anything more than that, then you're ding way more than you need to. So if it is someone like Guile vs Geese. Geese can build meter, run away, RTSD, do meterless combos, and with meter, do an infinite. What options does guile has, and how is he even using the system at all. Sure in 3s, low tier can use the system less effectively than top tier. In chaos they can't use the system at all. If you are Geese and you are losing to Hugo, then you are just a stupid player bottomline. There is prettymuch no reason you shold ever lose such a matchup.

    Overall, that's about all SVC turns into. A massive meter building, turtle fest. And the only difference is that top tier does it better than anyone else. And it's not just they do it a little better than everyone else, not even twice as good as anyone else. They do it 100% better than anyone else.

    I mean, I'm not going to hate your for hating this game. I have a friend who loves this game. But you're going to have to deal with the reality that people aren't playing this game because they are not uninformed about it. Back when I joined SRK, there was more than enough discussion about it. It's not that people didn't give this game a chance. On the contrary, people really wanted this game to be good. I wanted this game to be good. It's just not a competitive game, no matter how you cover your ears and pretend that it is. It's not. It's fun (I don't have fun with it), and maybe that's how you should be looking at it. There is no plausible way to justify it's competitiveness without being stupidly biased, or just falling into intellectual dishonesty.
    M.O.D.O.K Avengers - Minister Of Defense
    The Turtle Master, but my name ain't Splinter
    Hitting down/back so fast, you think I was using macros
  • Violent RyoViolent Ryo Mistuurrr KaraTEH! Joined: Posts: 382
    I refuse to play SvC Chaos competively, as there are too many broken characters/tactics.

    Also, some Capcom characters were really well made. I feel SNK did a better job of translating Capcom's characters than Capcom did in CvS with SNK characters.

    But anyway SvC is a lot of fun in casual matches and I feel SNK should release a (re-balanced)remake for XBL, PSN, or WiiWare. (assuming the 'netcode' is playable)

    A good remake would be a popular game on these Live arcade networks.
    KOFXIII: Ryo Rob Tak (Art of Fighting Team)
    KOF 98UM: EX-Ryo Brian Kyo Terry Eiji Tak
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  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    snip

    The only thing I disagree with is turtling. No, that is NOT how high level play in SvC works out and that's simply put because you build meter better doing just the opposite. Its just impossible. You also make these blanket statements like every good character has an infinite. This isn't Samurai Spirits III. And this goes for a ton of fighting games; where you build meter and use them to achieve the same goal. Did you forget this was a fighting game? The better characters are better because they take advantage of the system better. This is nothing new; we already know.

    BTW your last paragraph is just redundant. You know why? Because I and many others have said EXACTLY what you just said; the game's flawed. Check. There's problems at the competitive level. check. We play it because we like the system and have fun with it in spite of its flaws. Check. We look at it more as a casual diversion than a serious one. Check. I notice you've done that with just about every post you've replied to me in this thread. You quote me, but you go off on a tangent and argue things that no-one talked about to begin with. No-one is blind to the game's flaws; you're totally missing the point which is simple: Its fun to certain people. You don't get that (or perhaps refuse to) but that's not my problem. You are arguing points to yourself, by yourself.
    snip
    snip

    Pretty much these. This is what I've been saying from the beginning.
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • Branh0913Branh0913 Keep away king Joined: Posts: 3,642
    The only thing I disagree with is turtling. No, that is NOT how high level play in SvC works out and that's simply put because you build meter better doing just the opposite. Its just impossible. You also make these blanket statements like every good character has an infinite. This isn't Samurai Spirits III. And this goes for a ton of fighting games; where you build meter and use them to achieve the same goal. Did you forget this was a fighting game? The better characters are better because they take advantage of the system better. This is nothing new; we already know.

    BTW your last paragraph is just redundant. You know why? Because I and many others have said EXACTLY what you just said; the game's flawed. Check. There's problems at the competitive level. check. We play it because we like the system and have fun with it in spite of its flaws. Check. We look at it more as a casual diversion than a serious one. Check. I notice you've done that with just about every post you've replied to me in this thread. You quote me, but you go off on a tangent and argue things that no-one talked about to begin with. No-one is blind to the game's flaws; you're totally missing the point which is simple: Its fun to certain people. You don't get that (or perhaps refuse to) but that's not my problem. You are arguing points to yourself, by yourself.


    If you want to play the game for fun, then I can't argue with your taste. I personally have never found the game particularly fun (CFE is a better crappy fun game). In terms of turtling. Let me give you a scenario. Geese has full max meter. Do you rush him down? I would like to see how that works out. If he blocks you (which is easy), then he gets a free GCFS, and we all know what happens after that. Actually if Geese wanted to, he can rush you down indefinitely. You could GCFS him as a weaker character, but of course he has ways of stopping it. One is to bait it, then do a super. consdering you have like 8 opporunties to do a super on a full max bar, he can kill you totally by baiting GCFS attempts. So you're better at having him eat your guard bar. And if try to GC him to knock him back, you waste guard meter, and he's right back on that ass again.

    Seriously, you have NEVER played against a good Geese, or against one who abuse all of the blatant cheapness. There are SO many things Geese can do to you for free. And yeah, if Geese have full meter, you're better off turtling him. you sure as hell aren't going to rush him down, unless you're ROB Iori or Zero. But overall, the game just comes down to who'll get who in an infinite or some stupidly high damage combo based on a setup from just attacking someone. Yes, this game gives you no incentive to attacks someone. I mean you could, but it's just a stupid idea. You get free combos off of GCFS, and any other setup is completely unsafe. There really no point in doing anything but waiting for your opponent to do something.
    M.O.D.O.K Avengers - Minister Of Defense
    The Turtle Master, but my name ain't Splinter
    Hitting down/back so fast, you think I was using macros
  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    snip

    You're theory fighting again. I've fought PLENTY of good Geeses. Your argument falls apart because of several reasons:

    1) Not every attack is GCFS punishable.
    2) Why must I attack? Why can't I grab?
    3) Turtling is worse than looking for an opening, because when he's in MAX mode he gets a repukken pressure string in the corner. So he starts to lock you down. No, you go on the offensive. You obviously can't start too many fireball wars with him either since double repukken is a two-hit projectile. If he starts making the mistake of using Repukken blockstrings, you can GCFS through those outside of the corner.
    4) Not every character has the same zoning, damage, movement options
    5) GCFS still takes meter, even in max mode

    Its a really dumb character, but you seem to be unaware of some options. I could make the same blanket statement about Goenitz and say every match-up is pointless due to tornados. Nevermind people like Gouki and Shiki have teleport; Guile can fit in Sonic Booms between the gaps while building meter and so on.
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • Branh0913Branh0913 Keep away king Joined: Posts: 3,642
    You're theory fighting again. I've fought PLENTY of good Geeses. Your argument falls apart because of several reasons:

    1) Not every attack is GCFS punishable.
    2) Why must I attack? Why can't I grab?
    3) Turtling is worse than looking for an opening, because when he's in MAX mode he gets a repukken pressure string in the corner. So he starts to lock you down. No, you go on the offensive. You obviously can't start too many fireball wars with him either since double repukken is a two-hit projectile. If he starts making the mistake of using Repukken blockstrings, you can GCFS through those outside of the corner.
    4) Not every character has the same zoning, damage, movement options
    5) GCFS still takes meter, even in max mode

    Its a really dumb character, but you seem to be unaware of some options. I could make the same blanket statement about Goenitz and say every match-up is pointless due to tornados. Nevermind people like Gouki and Shiki have teleport; Guile can fit in Sonic Booms between the gaps while building meter and so on.



    LOL, you're talking theory dude. I really wish my old chum Antonio could have met you and broke out his Geese. you aren't doing none of those things to a good Geese man. I'm not theorizing anything. Trust me, back in 2006 when I use to play this game at the arcade. Yes AT the arcade. Not on XBL. Not on GGPO or 2DF. No back when I played it at the ARCADE, this is what has happened to me personally. I've brainstormed numerous ways to beat Geese or Zero (PM Pokchop who used him and got to be really cheap with him). Or ask players like Norm the Storm, who did retarded lockdowns with Mars People, and could slaughter you with ROB Iori. Or my fiend Jarvis who could rape your guard bar with violent Ken. Overall, I've played with people who took this game seriuously. I've seen first hand the retarded stuff in this game. And guess what, I saw it years ago. I mean, you can rant, and intellectualize all you want. But at the end of the day you're only playing catchup.
    M.O.D.O.K Avengers - Minister Of Defense
    The Turtle Master, but my name ain't Splinter
    Hitting down/back so fast, you think I was using macros
  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    Right back at Square one

    I'm done, dude. I mean, its like totally impossible some characters might have a good match-up against God Tier, its just impossible. All characters move the same, act the same, perform the same. Its all Geese.

    Here I thought we were talking about match-ups and how to get around certain strats and we've regressed full circle again. Good stuff.
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • Branh0913Branh0913 Keep away king Joined: Posts: 3,642
    I'm done, dude. I mean, its like totally impossible some characters might have a good match-up against God Tier, its just impossible. All characters move the same, act the same, perform the same. Its all Geese.

    Here I thought we were talking about match-ups and how to get around certain strats and we've regressed full circle again. Good stuff.



    I know you're TRYING to be sarcastic. But you're statement couldn't be anymore true. I do realize that I do present a negative vibe to this thread. But in reality it sucks that SVC did turn out the way that it did. The game had a lot of potential. And for casual matchs, I guess it's okay every once in awhile. I'm just a very rigid player. And I hate the risk/reward in this game. To me it's really annoying, and it makes it very hard to see this game as anything but a total mess. I understand people enjoy games for different reasons. But I hate that there is very little I can do safely in this game.

    Though I have to say I do somewat like Dhalsim in this game. He's really fun to play with, and his drills are really annoying.
    M.O.D.O.K Avengers - Minister Of Defense
    The Turtle Master, but my name ain't Splinter
    Hitting down/back so fast, you think I was using macros
  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    SvC is like Project Justice.

    Its better if its not taken very seriously. I don't play the game too much now as the scene I had back in Germany (Wiesbaden) is gone and I'm kinda weak at it now. Commands don't come out like I want to even in the PS2 version, I can't seem to use my Guard step on point like before unless I use the command version, keep getting cyber elves when I don't want them, etc but its an interesting diversion and good to mess around with.

    If you don't like it that's perfectly fine, but isn't what the thread is supposed to be about.
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • Pablo_the_MexPablo_the_Mex Blond Kanye Status Joined: Posts: 8,231
    I had a shit ton of fun with SvC back in the day. My university got this thing on release day and I played it HELLA. Guile was/is awesome. We have a gameworks up here and you still find random mexicans and koreans going at it.

  • raymkraymk Joined: Posts: 350
    This game...it really is kinda hard to hate. It fell just short of being good (if it had been just a little longer in production, REAL production, not development hell), and there's some fun cheesy stuff in there, but I wouldn't play it for anything other than a laugh.

    The aesthetic presentation was gorgeous, the mechanics were just all over the place. Putting aside the whole issue of GCFS, hit detection was all over the place, moves whiffed absolutely inexplicably at weird ranges, and the charge system sucked no less than six flavors of dick. (One of which was mule, for certain.) Playing Vega/Bison was like shotgunning bleach in SvC. Shadaloo deserves better.

    Guile's near-nonexistent charge time on Sonic Boom was pretty hilarious, as was Chun-Li and her, uh, everything.

    I'd be tempted to learn the game if I could ever find a properly wired SvC cabinet. As early as 3-4 years ago every damn hole-in-the-wall Orlando arcade had SvC (one of them even had two), and the only one on which the buttons were ever wired properly was the first one I ever played on God knows how long ago. (RIP Fashion Square Mall arcade, as mall arcades go you did not suck dick.)
    Ah hit detection hit detection how did i hate thee its actually one of the first things i noticed in the game.
    Also i think almost all charge times characters except for vega were like guile in his sonic boom. I also loved the fact that ryu uppercut was the only one were you had to input the motion without going over which I thought was weird i'm sure somebody else noticed that as well.

    Anyway i agree with you post in a nutshell maybe if they didn't worry about endings the game could have done better, but i like the pre-battle quotes those were badass those are a keeper :)
  • AlexanderAlexander Joined: Posts: 977
    Big guilty pleasure. It's not very good, but it's infinitely amusing. Plus it has Zero, Violent Ken, a bad ass Mr. Karate, and that demon from Gargoyle's Quest/Ghosts 'n Goblins. The dialog as the start of the match is great, as is the opening intro.
  • SweetJohnnyVSweetJohnnyV Streets ahead! Joined: Posts: 1,981 mod
    The problem with Chaos is that no one abuse GCFS quite like Geese, Iori, Zero or a lot of the hidden charaters do.

    That's why I don't understand why competitive players didn't just ban the hidden characters. It's not like Akuma ruins ST or Gill ruins 3S. People just go "Those guys are retarded. Not allowed". Done. Yes, Chun and Guile are good. And, it's been a long time, but if I remember correctly I think Tessa has an infinite cross-up thing. Still, those characters can be beaten and that tactic can be avoided. I mean, it's not perfect. What fighting game is? But sans hidden characters I think it's reasonably decent.
  • *Above Omnipotence*Above Omnipotence Semi-Supreme Being Joined: Posts: 305
    (physical form)

    My Tessa owns all. (evil laughs)
    I'm 2nd. to God's power. I'm the semi-supreme being.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Joined: Posts: 0
    Every fighter has flaws, some are more visable and frequent then others but that still doesn't mean a game can't be enjoyable or fun to play. SVC might not be a good game in the conventional sense, but it's a fun game that has competitive value to a degree. If the hidden characters are banned, and certain tactics are removed I think the game would have incredible viability as a fighter. I personally enjoy SVC over CVS2,SF4 and even some KOF tittles.
    "What one person sees as degrading and disgusting and bad for women might make some women feel empowered and beautiful and strong."
    - Sasha Grey
  • mIRCmIRC GOD OF SMPTE Joined: Posts: 7,445
    Adding this to my old shitty games I play to look cool list.
  • raymkraymk Joined: Posts: 350
    tessa was one of the good things about the game as were the secret characters. They were cool characters to get except riot iori they just weren't presented well, but i guess when they wanted secret characters they wanted them gods lol
  • clue2025clue2025 Brazilian Jiu-jitsu player Joined: Posts: 2,805
    I was just looking for this for XBox cause it's backwards compatible :rofl: I'll look into doing the infinites. Any game where Hugo can juggle someone forever is OK in my book.

    I remember playing this in an arcade when I first got into fighters and I couldn't do shit, it was so different to me but I kept trying anyway, then got it for like $2 at Game Crazy.
    Sorry I am standing so far away...I don't want any of your game rubbing off on me
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  • ShishiohShishioh Starbreaker Joined: Posts: 2,921
    Regular Akuma was so sick in this game....
    "Hitboxes have nothing at all to do with the way a fighting game plays. they are just a means to an end."-Random Discus user
    Written exactly like that.
  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    This thread finally got moved? Finally, now we can get some PRODUCTIVE discussion going.
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • jasonCjasonC Fish Bar Zombie Joined: Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    People still play this at Chinatown Fair pretty seriously lol. People say Tessa is top tier. When, if ever, I do play I main sim. Sim is pretty good in the game. His drills are fast and head drill covers a lotta distance quick. When you are in close, you can do like a ghetto triangle jump (quick overhead) with his foot drills to catch ppl trying to low poke you. Then mix it up with a quick slide into throw. These tactics are not vulnerable to GCFS. Meaty yoga flame was hard to beat if they didn't have meter. And if you got counter hit in corner, you could combo in super or yoga fire if you had no meter. Up flame was good anti air that knocks ppl all the way back. Exceed was good anti air, but hard to get in otherwise - bad controls made it hard for me to GCFS -> Exceed, but maybe my execution sucks. Teleports were ok - made him disappear a long time so he could run away from supers or whatever. Air teleport into air super was gimmicky but fun lol.

    and lol i saw this in FGD not KOF forum...oh well.
  • AnakronAnakron Alpha Male Joined: Posts: 2,391
    lmao genjuro with a command grab that puts opp in juggle and being able to do auto combo dm off of it
    #SNKPlaymore on rizon
    isn't it funny that capcom put a mechanic called focus into a game designed for people with ADD
  • blinky77blinky77 *sip* Joined: Posts: 1,367
    There's two - count 'em, TWO SVC Chaos machines in the Huntsville arcade. Pretty good game I think. Obviously not to be taken seriously from what I've read here but still good fun.
  • raymkraymk Joined: Posts: 350
    genjuro you know i actually forgot he was even in the game lol. You know i find it funny that none of the svc or cvs games added k', but it seems that all of them have the original sf2 chracters making up more than half the capcom roster. They could at least have gotten some alpha characters if they were going to use SF characters
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Joined: Posts: 0
    Yeah Im glad it got moved, so now we can begin some serious discussion. I main ryu, I played the hell out of this game back on the original xbox and I think I got to a compotent level of skill. I always came accross good players that used the cheats (shin akuma,shin karate,) but inspite of the broken nature of the hidden characters I had quite a bit of fun. On that note, is there any high level footage of ryu?
    "What one person sees as degrading and disgusting and bad for women might make some women feel empowered and beautiful and strong."
    - Sasha Grey
  • PreppyPreppy act like you're used to it Joined: Posts: 14,163 admin
    I don't really know of any high level footage of SvC. :sad:

    http://zachd.com/mvc2 : My giant archive of fighting game videos, centered around MvC2.
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  • Branh0913Branh0913 Keep away king Joined: Posts: 3,642
    There use to be some vids in circulation back in the days. I know I came across a few Chinese ones, but they are long gone unforuntately. I wonder if there is someone out there who has kept them or uploaded them to youtube?
    M.O.D.O.K Avengers - Minister Of Defense
    The Turtle Master, but my name ain't Splinter
    Hitting down/back so fast, you think I was using macros
  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    Yeah Im glad it got moved, so now we can begin some serious discussion. I main ryu, I played the hell out of this game back on the original xbox and I think I got to a compotent level of skill. I always came accross good players that used the cheats (shin akuma,shin karate,) but inspite of the broken nature of the hidden characters I had quite a bit of fun. On that note, is there any high level footage of ryu?

    You haven't even read your own thread.

    Check back to Fiol's post where he linked vids.
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Joined: Posts: 0
    Yeah I saw it, it doesn't look like there is much resource material in terms of high level play. I really hope we get a XBL release soon or something.
    "What one person sees as degrading and disgusting and bad for women might make some women feel empowered and beautiful and strong."
    - Sasha Grey
  • PaolochunPaolochun so that I / can say I'm on your side Joined: Posts: 11,358 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Most recent thread I could find on Other Games (re: this game), btw.

    http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=170765
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  • XTGXTG Gimme mah DYREKTEEV Joined: Posts: 2,363
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  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    Most recent thread I could find on Other Games (re: this game), btw.

    http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=170765

    That was already linked in the original post....
    Yeah I saw it, it doesn't look like there is much resource material in terms of high level play. I really hope we get a XBL release soon or something.

    Yes, but at the same time don't pretend like there isn't footage available. I linked several tourney match vids (all upped by the same person on YT, he should have more); the matches I have are sourced from that same group of players and have some more characters as well. What exactly are you looking for?

    Did you not learn anything from that match? What's your thoughts on it? Is he better or worse than you are? Its true that footage overall is limited but that is pretty high/solid level play from those people.
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • PaolochunPaolochun so that I / can say I'm on your side Joined: Posts: 11,358 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Forgot to check the OP, oops. At any rate
    I think Goentiz can bait them out, but I've never seen a Goenitz player who plays him lame enough.

    Yes, this. I keep hearing about how a good Goenitz/tornado spam can hang, but sadly I haven't seen it yet. Agreeing with the following quotes as well. I feel that's basically the game in a nutshell. Aside from Tech's "good for casuals and don't take it too seriously" post:
    SVC "god tier" does not make the game any more playable or create anymore strategy. As for some games where sometime the God tier makes the game more interesting, in Chaos, God tier dulls the game. Basically you can't do anything about God tier in SVC Chaos. They can build meter for free, GGCFS for free, infinite for free. Basically they shut down any real options.

    It's true because the high tiers do have their anti-GCFS measures, and have a much better arsenal than the other tiers. Geese with the zoning/chip damage, Zero with the crazy zoning and elves, O. Iori with the speed and basically being GCFS immune, etc. Many of the other characters get left out, and it becomes turtley.

    Perhaps if they get the license back and go for a newer XBLA/PSN/VC release, they could fix the many issues. I do like the improved GCFS and tweaks in NGBC as is though. I think I'll be playing that more instead/in the meantime.
    "The secret to strength is daily training."
    Chun-Li Street Fighter V training mode
  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    My thing is that without a truly competitive scene that revolves around this game (except perhaps the few scenes I've heard of in other countries, still small though) anyone playing this game at a top level where infinites and the like become a real problem is rare and goes without saying. Its pretty much assumed anyone with a brain already considers it "casuals only".

    Its like I was saying to Dandy J on IRC last night, not every game one plays has to be the best, competitive or have anyone like it. In the end they're just games and no-one has to really justify why they like or play it especially if they see the faults at an objective level. This happens in every single thread for the game and it gets tiresome because its been said 200 fold already why the game is flawed at high level. Doesn't give people the right to complain about it for those that enjoy it.

    Like I said, we all know I hate SFIV but I don't go up to the SFIV subforums and bitch about it.

    But I'm done with that; one thing I wanted to ask an opinion is what do anyone think of the broken tier (Athena, Red, Shin Gouki and Karate) amongst themselves? I always wondered if the amount of brokeness each of them had would make for interesting matches just against one another and I haven't seen them match-uped against each other very often.
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • Branh0913Branh0913 Keep away king Joined: Posts: 3,642
    My thing is that without a truly competitive scene that revolves around this game (except perhaps the few scenes I've heard of in other countries, still small though) anyone playing this game at a top level where infinites and the like become a real problem is rare and goes without saying. Its pretty much assumed anyone with a brain already considers it "casuals only".

    Its like I was saying to Dandy J on IRC last night, not every game one plays has to be the best, competitive or have anyone like it. In the end they're just games and no-one has to really justify why they like or play it especially if they see the faults at an objective level. This happens in every single thread for the game and it gets tiresome because its been said 200 fold already why the game is flawed at high level. Doesn't give people the right to complain about it for those that enjoy it.

    Like I said, we all know I hate SFIV but I don't go up to the SFIV subforums and bitch about it.

    But I'm done with that; one thing I wanted to ask an opinion is what do anyone think of the broken tier (Athena, Red, Shin Gouki and Karate) amongst themselves? I always wondered if the amount of brokeness each of them had would make for interesting matches just against one another and I haven't seen them match-uped against each other very often.



    Athena, Red, Shin Gouki, and True Mr. Karate are not even available in the arcade version of the game. For the most part they aren't in tier list, because it's impossible to play with them. Unless you personally hack the bios on your MVS cabinet, which I've never seen before. I know there were setups in Mexico and China with it, but I've never seen one in the US.
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  • PaolochunPaolochun so that I / can say I'm on your side Joined: Posts: 11,358 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I haven't logged in enough console version hours to gauge. I think it would be Shin Akuma on top though, if his MO is the same as regular Akuma's. That, and his supers are fast and meterless. (Meter exists for Max Mode, and his SGS, which is L1.)

    Does human-controlled Arremer randomly spawn minions like the boss version? That seems pretty troublesome for the less mobile characters.
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  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    I haven't logged in enough console version hours to gauge. I think it would be Shin Akuma on top though, if his MO is the same as regular Akuma's. That, and his supers are fast and meterless. (Meter exists for Max Mode, and his SGS, which is L1.)

    Does human-controlled Arremer randomly spawn minions like the boss version? That seems pretty troublesome for the less mobile characters.

    I think its actually possible to use the boss characters on one type of the arcade board, it was the AES version and you input codes just like the midbosses on the select screen or either turn on developer mode (which I think is the mame rom called the "super version"). In the console both Shin Gouki/Karate are already available but Red and Athena must be unlocked. I did it on my shitty Xbox version but haven't bothered yet on my PS2 import version.

    Actually I always thought of Shin Gouki being the best out of the big four as well just because of the teleport (which has no recovery) which allows him to get around the mad zoning options of Karate and Arremer. But its pretty close, I'd say. I'd love to see solid level matches of them against one another. I'm scared of Athena too, because her specials (which all look like supers approriately enough) have such amounts of invulnerability and some are unblockable.

    And yes, the player controlled version of Red has all the summons seen in the CPU version. I would say a player would be even more dangerous with him seeing as they wouldn't be "random" and could set up the minions for some really interesting set-ups. Although the other three can ignore this to an extent (especially Mr. Karate) as his triple Haoh Shoku Ken can just wipe them away.
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • Emperor PaineEmperor Paine Hakkenden Sensei Joined: Posts: 363
    I can't hate this game.
    When it first came out on Xbox I bought the game and was humbled by some good players.
    I got some matches still saved and I can upload them if anyone wants to see them.

    As for a teir list; I remember one gaming magazine saying something on the lines of this....
    (please don't get pissed about this. It was an old list)
    A tier: Zero, Geese, Riot Iori
    B tier: Shin Akuma, Serious Mr. Karate, Mars People, Sagat, Earthquake, Tessa, Chun Li, Geonitz, Demitri (if that's spelled right?)
    C tier: Violent Ken, Terry, Kyo, Iori, Ryo, Ken, Ryu, Kim, Guile, Red what the fuck ever demon..........(lol)
    D tier: Mai, Athena, Kasumi, Vega, Shiki, Choi, Bison
    E tier: Genjiuro, Hugo, Balrog, Dan (I think was the last one)

    Again this was some old ass tier list some gaming magazine came up with.
    From a friend of mine who lives up in Washinton state; he tells me an arcade of the game is still up there and the game is still being played.


    Also here is the link to some random bs combo vid people came up with for the game.
    ...........
  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    I got some matches still saved and I can upload them if anyone wants to see them.

    Yes, please.

    As for a teir list; I remember one gaming magazine saying something on the lines of this....
    (please don't get pissed about this. It was an old list)
    A tier: Zero, Geese, Riot Iori
    B tier: Shin Akuma, Serious Mr. Karate, Mars People, Sagat, Earthquake, Tessa, Chun Li, Geonitz, Demitri (if that's spelled right?)
    C tier: Violent Ken, Terry, Kyo, Iori, Ryo, Ken, Ryu, Kim, Guile, Red what the fuck ever demon..........(lol)
    D tier: Mai, Athena, Kasumi, Vega, Shiki, Choi, Bison
    E tier: Genjiuro, Hugo, Balrog, Dan

    Haha. Lmao @ Athena being D tier among other things.

    If I had to make a list, it'd be more like this:

    Broken Tier: Shin Gouki, Serious Mr. Karate, Athena, Red Arremer
    S Tier: Geese, Zero, Orochi Iori
    A Tier: Goenitz, Violent Ken, Demetri, Guile, Terry, Tessa, Chun Li
    B Tier: Kyo, Iori, Gouki, Shiki, Ryu, Ken, Sagat, Kim, Sim, Mars People
    C Tier: Kasumi, Choi, Mai, Earthquake, Genjuro , Ryo, Mr. Karate
    D Tier: Boxer, Dictator, Claw, Hugo
    E Tier: Dan
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
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