Tech Romancer, post: 4115181 wrote:
See I don't get that. Tron alone does not beat MSP; although you can say it makes a bad match-up because MSP's purpose is to get in and abuse Psylocke. But you're not looking at the entire match-up. Say whoever's on point (mags/storm) realizes that Tron is making trouble. They can play smart, bait the assist, use Storm hurricane instead, switch tron in, etc. Having Tron can make the match-up difficult but its not exactly counter picking MSP; they still I have lots of options. Also tron isn't invincible, so just as she comes out she can be beaten by another assist.
What I mean by your example doesn't make sense is that God Tier is God Tier because they do everything Low tier does better. Saying they can use the same tools doesn't make the game "better" broken, its still broken, all the characters have access to the same tools and the tiers don't change. If you're point is the system is more creative and you can do more with it, than yeah that's true. Its the only I reason I play.
As for you saying Geese/Zero/Orochi/whoever play the same and they're unbeatable, I don't agree. I also don't see how they play the same. Its similar to the 3S discussion in the lounge in that the parry is universal and all characters benefit from it but the top tier benefit the best. This is true in SvC, but at the same time I think its better for the low tier to have it than without.
Branh0913, post: 4115183 wrote:
Ben Reed, post: 4115182 wrote:
Violent Ryo, post: 4115184 wrote:
Tech Romancer, post: 4115185 wrote:
The only thing I disagree with is turtling. No, that is NOT how high level play in SvC works out and that's simply put because you build meter better doing just the opposite. Its just impossible. You also make these blanket statements like every good character has an infinite. This isn't Samurai Spirits III. And this goes for a ton of fighting games; where you build meter and use them to achieve the same goal. Did you forget this was a fighting game? The better characters are better because they take advantage of the system better. This is nothing new; we already know.
BTW your last paragraph is just redundant. You know why? Because I and many others have said EXACTLY what you just said; the game's flawed. Check. There's problems at the competitive level. check. We play it because we like the system and have fun with it in spite of its flaws. Check. We look at it more as a casual diversion than a serious one. Check. I notice you've done that with just about every post you've replied to me in this thread. You quote me, but you go off on a tangent and argue things that no-one talked about to begin with. No-one is blind to the game's flaws; you're totally missing the point which is simple: Its fun to certain people. You don't get that (or perhaps refuse to) but that's not my problem. You are arguing points to yourself, by yourself.
Branh0913, post: 4115186 wrote:
Tech Romancer, post: 4115187 wrote:
You're theory fighting again. I've fought PLENTY of good Geeses. Your argument falls apart because of several reasons:
1) Not every attack is GCFS punishable.
2) Why must I attack? Why can't I grab?
3) Turtling is worse than looking for an opening, because when he's in MAX mode he gets a repukken pressure string in the corner. So he starts to lock you down. No, you go on the offensive. You obviously can't start too many fireball wars with him either since double repukken is a two-hit projectile. If he starts making the mistake of using Repukken blockstrings, you can GCFS through those outside of the corner.
4) Not every character has the same zoning, damage, movement options
5) GCFS still takes meter, even in max mode
Its a really dumb character, but you seem to be unaware of some options. I could make the same blanket statement about Goenitz and say every match-up is pointless due to tornados. Nevermind people like Gouki and Shiki have teleport; Guile can fit in Sonic Booms between the gaps while building meter and so on.
Branh0913, post: 4115188 wrote:
Right back at Square one
Tech Romancer, post: 4115189 wrote:
I'm done, dude. I mean, its like totally impossible some characters might have a good match-up against God Tier, its just impossible. All characters move the same, act the same, perform the same. Its all Geese.
Here I thought we were talking about match-ups and how to get around certain strats and we've regressed full circle again. Good stuff.
Ben Reed, post: 4115182 wrote:
This game...it really is kinda hard to hate. It fell just short of being good (if it had been just a little longer in production, REAL production, not development hell), and there's some fun cheesy stuff in there, but I wouldn't play it for anything other than a laugh.
The aesthetic presentation was gorgeous, the mechanics were just all over the place. Putting aside the whole issue of GCFS, hit detection was all over the place, moves whiffed absolutely inexplicably at weird ranges, and the charge system sucked no less than six flavors of dick. (One of which was mule, for certain.) Playing Vega/Bison was like shotgunning bleach in SvC. Shadaloo deserves better.
Guile's near-nonexistent charge time on Sonic Boom was pretty hilarious, as was Chun-Li and her, uh, everything.
I'd be tempted to learn the game if I could ever find a properly wired SvC cabinet. As early as 3-4 years ago every damn hole-in-the-wall Orlando arcade had SvC (one of them even had two), and the only one on which the buttons were ever wired properly was the first one I ever played on God knows how long ago. (RIP Fashion Square Mall arcade, as mall arcades go you did not suck dick.)
Branh0913, post: 4115180 wrote:
The problem with Chaos is that no one abuse GCFS quite like Geese, Iori, Zero or a lot of the hidden charaters do.
http://zachd.com/mvc2 : My giant archive of fighting game videos, centered around MvC2.
"If you don't feel like killing yourself every time you lose you will never be good. Apologyman is going to be a monster someday as long as he keeps staying miserable." --Brightside6382
Evo, post: 4115207 wrote:
Yeah Im glad it got moved, so now we can begin some serious discussion. I main ryu, I played the hell out of this game back on the original xbox and I think I got to a compotent level of skill. I always came accross good players that used the cheats (shin akuma,shin karate,) but inspite of the broken nature of the hidden characters I had quite a bit of fun. On that note, is there any high level footage of ryu?
4neqs, post: 4115212 wrote:
Most recent thread I could find on Other Games (re: this game), btw.
Evo, post: 4115211 wrote:
Yeah I saw it, it doesn't look like there is much resource material in terms of high level play. I really hope we get a XBL release soon or something.
Branh0913, post: 4115170 wrote:
I think Goentiz can bait them out, but I've never seen a Goenitz player who plays him lame enough.
Branh0913, post: 4115178 wrote:
SVC "god tier" does not make the game any more playable or create anymore strategy. As for some games where sometime the God tier makes the game more interesting, in Chaos, God tier dulls the game. Basically you can't do anything about God tier in SVC Chaos. They can build meter for free, GGCFS for free, infinite for free. Basically they shut down any real options.
Tech Romancer, post: 4115216 wrote:
My thing is that without a truly competitive scene that revolves around this game (except perhaps the few scenes I've heard of in other countries, still small though) anyone playing this game at a top level where infinites and the like become a real problem is rare and goes without saying. Its pretty much assumed anyone with a brain already considers it "casuals only".
Its like I was saying to Dandy J on IRC last night, not every game one plays has to be the best, competitive or have anyone like it. In the end they're just games and no-one has to really justify why they like or play it especially if they see the faults at an objective level. This happens in every single thread for the game and it gets tiresome because its been said 200 fold already why the game is flawed at high level. Doesn't give people the right to complain about it for those that enjoy it.
Like I said, we all know I hate SFIV but I don't go up to the SFIV subforums and bitch about it.
But I'm done with that; one thing I wanted to ask an opinion is what do anyone think of the broken tier (Athena, Red, Shin Gouki and Karate) amongst themselves? I always wondered if the amount of brokeness each of them had would make for interesting matches just against one another and I haven't seen them match-uped against each other very often.
4neqs, post: 4115218 wrote:
I haven't logged in enough console version hours to gauge. I think it would be Shin Akuma on top though, if his MO is the same as regular Akuma's. That, and his supers are fast and meterless. (Meter exists for Max Mode, and his SGS, which is L1.)
Does human-controlled Arremer randomly spawn minions like the boss version? That seems pretty troublesome for the less mobile characters.
Emperor Paine, post: 4115220 wrote:
I got some matches still saved and I can upload them if anyone wants to see them.
Emperor Paine, post: 4115220 wrote:
As for a teir list; I remember one gaming magazine saying something on the lines of this....
(please don't get pissed about this. It was an old list)
A tier: Zero, Geese, Riot Iori
B tier: Shin Akuma, Serious Mr. Karate, Mars People, Sagat, Earthquake, Tessa, Chun Li, Geonitz, Demitri (if that's spelled right?)
C tier: Violent Ken, Terry, Kyo, Iori, Ryo, Ken, Ryu, Kim, Guile, Red what the fuck ever demon..........(lol)
D tier: Mai, Athena, Kasumi, Vega, Shiki, Choi, Bison
E tier: Genjiuro, Hugo, Balrog, Dan