Ben Reed, post: 4115182 wrote:
This game...it really is kinda hard to hate. It fell just short of being good (if it had been just a little longer in production, REAL production, not development hell), and there's some fun cheesy stuff in there, but I wouldn't play it for anything other than a laugh.
The aesthetic presentation was gorgeous, the mechanics were just all over the place. Putting aside the whole issue of GCFS, hit detection was all over the place, moves whiffed absolutely inexplicably at weird ranges, and the charge system sucked no less than six flavors of dick. (One of which was mule, for certain.) Playing Vega/Bison was like shotgunning bleach in SvC. Shadaloo deserves better.
Guile's near-nonexistent charge time on Sonic Boom was pretty hilarious, as was Chun-Li and her, uh, everything.
I'd be tempted to learn the game if I could ever find a properly wired SvC cabinet. As early as 3-4 years ago every damn hole-in-the-wall Orlando arcade had SvC (one of them even had two), and the only one on which the buttons were ever wired properly was the first one I ever played on God knows how long ago. (RIP Fashion Square Mall arcade, as mall arcades go you did not suck dick.)
Branh0913, post: 4115180 wrote:
The problem with Chaos is that no one abuse GCFS quite like Geese, Iori, Zero or a lot of the hidden charaters do.
http://zachd.com/mvc2 : My giant archive of fighting game videos, centered around MvC2.
"If you don't feel like killing yourself every time you lose you will never be good. Apologyman is going to be a monster someday as long as he keeps staying miserable." --Brightside6382
Evo, post: 4115207 wrote:
Yeah Im glad it got moved, so now we can begin some serious discussion. I main ryu, I played the hell out of this game back on the original xbox and I think I got to a compotent level of skill. I always came accross good players that used the cheats (shin akuma,shin karate,) but inspite of the broken nature of the hidden characters I had quite a bit of fun. On that note, is there any high level footage of ryu?
4neqs, post: 4115212 wrote:
Most recent thread I could find on Other Games (re: this game), btw.
Evo, post: 4115211 wrote:
Yeah I saw it, it doesn't look like there is much resource material in terms of high level play. I really hope we get a XBL release soon or something.
Branh0913, post: 4115170 wrote:
I think Goentiz can bait them out, but I've never seen a Goenitz player who plays him lame enough.
Branh0913, post: 4115178 wrote:
SVC "god tier" does not make the game any more playable or create anymore strategy. As for some games where sometime the God tier makes the game more interesting, in Chaos, God tier dulls the game. Basically you can't do anything about God tier in SVC Chaos. They can build meter for free, GGCFS for free, infinite for free. Basically they shut down any real options.
Tech Romancer, post: 4115216 wrote:
My thing is that without a truly competitive scene that revolves around this game (except perhaps the few scenes I've heard of in other countries, still small though) anyone playing this game at a top level where infinites and the like become a real problem is rare and goes without saying. Its pretty much assumed anyone with a brain already considers it "casuals only".
Its like I was saying to Dandy J on IRC last night, not every game one plays has to be the best, competitive or have anyone like it. In the end they're just games and no-one has to really justify why they like or play it especially if they see the faults at an objective level. This happens in every single thread for the game and it gets tiresome because its been said 200 fold already why the game is flawed at high level. Doesn't give people the right to complain about it for those that enjoy it.
Like I said, we all know I hate SFIV but I don't go up to the SFIV subforums and bitch about it.
But I'm done with that; one thing I wanted to ask an opinion is what do anyone think of the broken tier (Athena, Red, Shin Gouki and Karate) amongst themselves? I always wondered if the amount of brokeness each of them had would make for interesting matches just against one another and I haven't seen them match-uped against each other very often.
4neqs, post: 4115218 wrote:
I haven't logged in enough console version hours to gauge. I think it would be Shin Akuma on top though, if his MO is the same as regular Akuma's. That, and his supers are fast and meterless. (Meter exists for Max Mode, and his SGS, which is L1.)
Does human-controlled Arremer randomly spawn minions like the boss version? That seems pretty troublesome for the less mobile characters.
Emperor Paine, post: 4115220 wrote:
I got some matches still saved and I can upload them if anyone wants to see them.
Emperor Paine, post: 4115220 wrote:
As for a teir list; I remember one gaming magazine saying something on the lines of this....
(please don't get pissed about this. It was an old list)
A tier: Zero, Geese, Riot Iori
B tier: Shin Akuma, Serious Mr. Karate, Mars People, Sagat, Earthquake, Tessa, Chun Li, Geonitz, Demitri (if that's spelled right?)
C tier: Violent Ken, Terry, Kyo, Iori, Ryo, Ken, Ryu, Kim, Guile, Red what the fuck ever demon..........(lol)
D tier: Mai, Athena, Kasumi, Vega, Shiki, Choi, Bison
E tier: Genjiuro, Hugo, Balrog, Dan
Yes, but at the same time don't pretend like there isn't footage available. I linked several tourney match vids (all upped by the same person on YT, he should have more); the matches I have are sourced from that same group of players and have some more characters as well. What exactly are you looking for?
Did you not learn anything from that match? What's your thoughts on it? Is he better or worse than you are? Its true that footage overall is limited but that is pretty high/solid level play from those people.
Evo, post: 4115222 wrote:
Although with the talk of the tiers in this game, I honestly don't know why the unlockable characters are simply not banned. Granted the game would still be far from perfectly balanced, but we could at least stop having people constantly complain over the tiers in this game.
Tech Romancer, post: 4115221 wrote:
Broken Tier: Shin Gouki, Serious Mr. Karate, Athena, Red Arremer
S Tier: Geese, Zero, Orochi Iori
A Tier: Goenitz, Violent Ken, Demetri, Guile, Terry, Tessa, Chun Li
B Tier: Kyo, Iori, Gouki, Shiki, Ryu, Ken, Sagat, Kim, Sim, Mars People
C Tier: Kasumi, Choi, Mai, Earthquake, Genjuro , Ryo, Mr. Karate
D Tier: Boxer, Dictator, Claw, Hugo
E Tier: Dan
Return of Shiki, post: 4115224 wrote:
I agree with this tier list, however Hugo and Mai need to be a little higher, and Earthquake and Mr. Karate need to be way higher.
Mr. Karate is easily the best non-boss shoto in the game.
Chuvylicious, post: 4115226 wrote:
here are the pages of my buddies and the videos that they have recorded: http://www.youtube.com/user/cdmejia#p/u
Tech Romancer, post: 4115225 wrote:
Hugo I can agree with, after I saw that really good one in the Asian tourney. His offense and knowledge for best air normals was simply fantastic and his baiting of Guard Cancel dash was great. Also, having the Gigas Breaker as only a 360 instead of 720 makes it very cheap after a successful GCFS. He has good combo options, being able to have all of his supers and stuff like comboing Hammer Frenzy off of lps. He can also combo and basically make an inescapable tick throw off of claps into regular 360. So maybe B tier, but he'd undoubtedly be at the bottom simply because his size is a large set-back, especially to those with good zoning options.
Mai...I wouldn't move her up. Simply put she is a vastly buffed version of NGBC BUT with the inclusion of GCFS her mix-ups and usual trickery become far less safe than in KOF or Battle Coliseum, where most of the time they would be neutral at worst. Other than that she has very good tools, mobility but she is held back from using them very much and has to be more defensive.
You spoke of Mr. Karate and he's def solid, but I don't know if he's on the same tier as Gouki. I picked him up a few months back and he def has a strong zoning, SFII style game, which is amazing in this system but he needs better normals and ways to bait GFCS. He does take good damage (the least in the game behind Hugo) and Hien Shippu can be hard to punish sometimes even with GCFS but other's such as Gouki simply have more to work with (godlike divekick, air fireballs, mix-ups off demon flip, stronger [corner] combos, better normals). I'm curious as to your thoughts on why he would be higher.
Earthquake I can't see either. He just seems too unsafe with his mix-ups and is also a big target. However, his normals aren't good like Hugo's. He has some nice supers and an annoying zoning game with fart projectile but that's all I see. If if weren't for some of this stuff he'd be almost as bad as dictator because you don't even need to use GCFS to punish a lot of his stuff (ie. waste of meter to use GFCS on dictator most of the time; if you block scissor kicks, free combo). =/
4neqs, post: 4115228 wrote:
Ryu is a pretty good shoto here I think. Press buttons, link to Shinkuu Hadouken. Good priority on the SRK too. Akuma is around A or B, A in the right hands I guess, it's just the low hp that hampers him IMO (same weakness as O. Iori). Demon flip and air fireballs are really good. I would put (normal) Iori a notch higher if Terry's there, too. Does what KOF Iori can do more or less + strong Max Mode stuff. It's akin to his KOF 2002 max stuff, but maybe better since the qcfx4 + :snka::snkc: explosion followup to his Ya Otome is meterless in this game.
Kim close :snkc: to Exceed = lol
Return of Shiki, post: 4115230 wrote:
*shrug* I simply disagree. I think she can still runaway very well. She's basically what Vega SHOULD have been in this game. Her Fire Twirl super is stupidly easy to crossup with and very hard to punish.
Return of Shiki, post: 4115230 wrote:
I think you all are overrating Akuma quite a bit. His air fireball is good, but it's not THAT good, especially in a game like SvC.
The main problem with Akuma is his really bad defense. That matters A LOT in SvC since so many characters have insane damage options. Akuma can do all the fancy mixups and chip that he wants, and he'll still die in 2 combos or less depending on the character.
Mr. Karate is just really solid. He's not really top-tier, but I don't see how he's below Ryu and Akuma. Kyokugen KoHou is really buff anti-air. Shoran Kyaku is a really good command grab. His ground fireball covers better space than Hadoukens as it is more likely to catch people out of jumping frames. Hien Shippu Kyaku is just beastly and his Exceed does 60% and has excellent invincibility.
Return of Shiki, post: 4115230 wrote:
Are we really talking about the same Earthquake?
The only normal he needs is standing D, and it gets the job done. Occasionally you may need standing B, C, or throw.
If you're fighting an Earthquake that isn't safe, then you're not fighting somebody who knows what they're doing with Earthquake.
I don't see how EQ is less than A-tier, especially in non-boss SvC.
Return of Shiki, post: 4115232 wrote:
I don't think Kyokugen KoHou combos from light attacks, but it's been quite a while since I played so I may be wrong.