SVC - When It's So Bad It's Good

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  • Pablo_the_MexPablo_the_Mex Blond Kanye Status Joined: Posts: 8,119
    I had a shit ton of fun with SvC back in the day. My university got this thing on release day and I played it HELLA. Guile was/is awesome. We have a gameworks up here and you still find random mexicans and koreans going at it.

  • raymkraymk Joined: Posts: 350
    This game...it really is kinda hard to hate. It fell just short of being good (if it had been just a little longer in production, REAL production, not development hell), and there's some fun cheesy stuff in there, but I wouldn't play it for anything other than a laugh.

    The aesthetic presentation was gorgeous, the mechanics were just all over the place. Putting aside the whole issue of GCFS, hit detection was all over the place, moves whiffed absolutely inexplicably at weird ranges, and the charge system sucked no less than six flavors of dick. (One of which was mule, for certain.) Playing Vega/Bison was like shotgunning bleach in SvC. Shadaloo deserves better.

    Guile's near-nonexistent charge time on Sonic Boom was pretty hilarious, as was Chun-Li and her, uh, everything.

    I'd be tempted to learn the game if I could ever find a properly wired SvC cabinet. As early as 3-4 years ago every damn hole-in-the-wall Orlando arcade had SvC (one of them even had two), and the only one on which the buttons were ever wired properly was the first one I ever played on God knows how long ago. (RIP Fashion Square Mall arcade, as mall arcades go you did not suck dick.)
    Ah hit detection hit detection how did i hate thee its actually one of the first things i noticed in the game.
    Also i think almost all charge times characters except for vega were like guile in his sonic boom. I also loved the fact that ryu uppercut was the only one were you had to input the motion without going over which I thought was weird i'm sure somebody else noticed that as well.

    Anyway i agree with you post in a nutshell maybe if they didn't worry about endings the game could have done better, but i like the pre-battle quotes those were badass those are a keeper :)
  • AlexanderAlexander Joined: Posts: 977
    Big guilty pleasure. It's not very good, but it's infinitely amusing. Plus it has Zero, Violent Ken, a bad ass Mr. Karate, and that demon from Gargoyle's Quest/Ghosts 'n Goblins. The dialog as the start of the match is great, as is the opening intro.
  • SweetJohnnyVSweetJohnnyV Streets ahead! Joined: Posts: 1,981 mod
    The problem with Chaos is that no one abuse GCFS quite like Geese, Iori, Zero or a lot of the hidden charaters do.

    That's why I don't understand why competitive players didn't just ban the hidden characters. It's not like Akuma ruins ST or Gill ruins 3S. People just go "Those guys are retarded. Not allowed". Done. Yes, Chun and Guile are good. And, it's been a long time, but if I remember correctly I think Tessa has an infinite cross-up thing. Still, those characters can be beaten and that tactic can be avoided. I mean, it's not perfect. What fighting game is? But sans hidden characters I think it's reasonably decent.
  • *Above Omnipotence*Above Omnipotence Semi-Supreme Being Joined: Posts: 305
    (physical form)

    My Tessa owns all. (evil laughs)
    I'm 2nd. to God's power. I'm the semi-supreme being.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Joined: Posts: 0
    Every fighter has flaws, some are more visable and frequent then others but that still doesn't mean a game can't be enjoyable or fun to play. SVC might not be a good game in the conventional sense, but it's a fun game that has competitive value to a degree. If the hidden characters are banned, and certain tactics are removed I think the game would have incredible viability as a fighter. I personally enjoy SVC over CVS2,SF4 and even some KOF tittles.
    "What one person sees as degrading and disgusting and bad for women might make some women feel empowered and beautiful and strong."
    - Sasha Grey
  • mIRCmIRC GOD OF SMPTE Joined: Posts: 7,445
    Adding this to my old shitty games I play to look cool list.
  • raymkraymk Joined: Posts: 350
    tessa was one of the good things about the game as were the secret characters. They were cool characters to get except riot iori they just weren't presented well, but i guess when they wanted secret characters they wanted them gods lol
  • clue2025clue2025 Brazilian Jiu-jitsu player Joined: Posts: 2,805
    I was just looking for this for XBox cause it's backwards compatible :rofl: I'll look into doing the infinites. Any game where Hugo can juggle someone forever is OK in my book.

    I remember playing this in an arcade when I first got into fighters and I couldn't do shit, it was so different to me but I kept trying anyway, then got it for like $2 at Game Crazy.
    Sorry I am standing so far away...I don't want any of your game rubbing off on me
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  • ShishiohShishioh Starbreaker Joined: Posts: 2,921
    Regular Akuma was so sick in this game....
    "Hitboxes have nothing at all to do with the way a fighting game plays. they are just a means to an end."-Random Discus user
    Written exactly like that.
  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    This thread finally got moved? Finally, now we can get some PRODUCTIVE discussion going.
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • jasonCjasonC Fish Bar Zombie Joined: Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    People still play this at Chinatown Fair pretty seriously lol. People say Tessa is top tier. When, if ever, I do play I main sim. Sim is pretty good in the game. His drills are fast and head drill covers a lotta distance quick. When you are in close, you can do like a ghetto triangle jump (quick overhead) with his foot drills to catch ppl trying to low poke you. Then mix it up with a quick slide into throw. These tactics are not vulnerable to GCFS. Meaty yoga flame was hard to beat if they didn't have meter. And if you got counter hit in corner, you could combo in super or yoga fire if you had no meter. Up flame was good anti air that knocks ppl all the way back. Exceed was good anti air, but hard to get in otherwise - bad controls made it hard for me to GCFS -> Exceed, but maybe my execution sucks. Teleports were ok - made him disappear a long time so he could run away from supers or whatever. Air teleport into air super was gimmicky but fun lol.

    and lol i saw this in FGD not KOF forum...oh well.
  • AnakronAnakron Alpha Male Joined: Posts: 2,391
    lmao genjuro with a command grab that puts opp in juggle and being able to do auto combo dm off of it
    #SNKPlaymore on rizon
    isn't it funny that capcom put a mechanic called focus into a game designed for people with ADD
  • blinky77blinky77 *sip* Joined: Posts: 1,367
    There's two - count 'em, TWO SVC Chaos machines in the Huntsville arcade. Pretty good game I think. Obviously not to be taken seriously from what I've read here but still good fun.
  • raymkraymk Joined: Posts: 350
    genjuro you know i actually forgot he was even in the game lol. You know i find it funny that none of the svc or cvs games added k', but it seems that all of them have the original sf2 chracters making up more than half the capcom roster. They could at least have gotten some alpha characters if they were going to use SF characters
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Joined: Posts: 0
    Yeah Im glad it got moved, so now we can begin some serious discussion. I main ryu, I played the hell out of this game back on the original xbox and I think I got to a compotent level of skill. I always came accross good players that used the cheats (shin akuma,shin karate,) but inspite of the broken nature of the hidden characters I had quite a bit of fun. On that note, is there any high level footage of ryu?
    "What one person sees as degrading and disgusting and bad for women might make some women feel empowered and beautiful and strong."
    - Sasha Grey
  • PreppyPreppy act like you're used to it Joined: Posts: 13,866 admin
    I don't really know of any high level footage of SvC. :sad:

    http://zachd.com/mvc2 : My giant archive of fighting game videos, centered around MvC2.
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  • Branh0913Branh0913 PSN: branh0913 xbl:Tightest Titan Joined: Posts: 3,573
    There use to be some vids in circulation back in the days. I know I came across a few Chinese ones, but they are long gone unforuntately. I wonder if there is someone out there who has kept them or uploaded them to youtube?
    M.O.D.O.K Avengers - Minister Of Defense
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  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    Yeah Im glad it got moved, so now we can begin some serious discussion. I main ryu, I played the hell out of this game back on the original xbox and I think I got to a compotent level of skill. I always came accross good players that used the cheats (shin akuma,shin karate,) but inspite of the broken nature of the hidden characters I had quite a bit of fun. On that note, is there any high level footage of ryu?

    You haven't even read your own thread.

    Check back to Fiol's post where he linked vids.
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Joined: Posts: 0
    Yeah I saw it, it doesn't look like there is much resource material in terms of high level play. I really hope we get a XBL release soon or something.
    "What one person sees as degrading and disgusting and bad for women might make some women feel empowered and beautiful and strong."
    - Sasha Grey
  • PaolochunPaolochun so that I / can say I'm on your side Joined: Posts: 11,306 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Most recent thread I could find on Other Games (re: this game), btw.

    http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=170765
    "The secret to strength is daily training."
    Chun-Li Street Fighter V training mode
  • XTGXTG Gimme mah DYREKTEEV Joined: Posts: 2,363
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  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    Most recent thread I could find on Other Games (re: this game), btw.

    http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=170765

    That was already linked in the original post....
    Yeah I saw it, it doesn't look like there is much resource material in terms of high level play. I really hope we get a XBL release soon or something.

    Yes, but at the same time don't pretend like there isn't footage available. I linked several tourney match vids (all upped by the same person on YT, he should have more); the matches I have are sourced from that same group of players and have some more characters as well. What exactly are you looking for?

    Did you not learn anything from that match? What's your thoughts on it? Is he better or worse than you are? Its true that footage overall is limited but that is pretty high/solid level play from those people.
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • PaolochunPaolochun so that I / can say I'm on your side Joined: Posts: 11,306 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Forgot to check the OP, oops. At any rate
    I think Goentiz can bait them out, but I've never seen a Goenitz player who plays him lame enough.

    Yes, this. I keep hearing about how a good Goenitz/tornado spam can hang, but sadly I haven't seen it yet. Agreeing with the following quotes as well. I feel that's basically the game in a nutshell. Aside from Tech's "good for casuals and don't take it too seriously" post:
    SVC "god tier" does not make the game any more playable or create anymore strategy. As for some games where sometime the God tier makes the game more interesting, in Chaos, God tier dulls the game. Basically you can't do anything about God tier in SVC Chaos. They can build meter for free, GGCFS for free, infinite for free. Basically they shut down any real options.

    It's true because the high tiers do have their anti-GCFS measures, and have a much better arsenal than the other tiers. Geese with the zoning/chip damage, Zero with the crazy zoning and elves, O. Iori with the speed and basically being GCFS immune, etc. Many of the other characters get left out, and it becomes turtley.

    Perhaps if they get the license back and go for a newer XBLA/PSN/VC release, they could fix the many issues. I do like the improved GCFS and tweaks in NGBC as is though. I think I'll be playing that more instead/in the meantime.
    "The secret to strength is daily training."
    Chun-Li Street Fighter V training mode
  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    My thing is that without a truly competitive scene that revolves around this game (except perhaps the few scenes I've heard of in other countries, still small though) anyone playing this game at a top level where infinites and the like become a real problem is rare and goes without saying. Its pretty much assumed anyone with a brain already considers it "casuals only".

    Its like I was saying to Dandy J on IRC last night, not every game one plays has to be the best, competitive or have anyone like it. In the end they're just games and no-one has to really justify why they like or play it especially if they see the faults at an objective level. This happens in every single thread for the game and it gets tiresome because its been said 200 fold already why the game is flawed at high level. Doesn't give people the right to complain about it for those that enjoy it.

    Like I said, we all know I hate SFIV but I don't go up to the SFIV subforums and bitch about it.

    But I'm done with that; one thing I wanted to ask an opinion is what do anyone think of the broken tier (Athena, Red, Shin Gouki and Karate) amongst themselves? I always wondered if the amount of brokeness each of them had would make for interesting matches just against one another and I haven't seen them match-uped against each other very often.
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • Branh0913Branh0913 PSN: branh0913 xbl:Tightest Titan Joined: Posts: 3,573
    My thing is that without a truly competitive scene that revolves around this game (except perhaps the few scenes I've heard of in other countries, still small though) anyone playing this game at a top level where infinites and the like become a real problem is rare and goes without saying. Its pretty much assumed anyone with a brain already considers it "casuals only".

    Its like I was saying to Dandy J on IRC last night, not every game one plays has to be the best, competitive or have anyone like it. In the end they're just games and no-one has to really justify why they like or play it especially if they see the faults at an objective level. This happens in every single thread for the game and it gets tiresome because its been said 200 fold already why the game is flawed at high level. Doesn't give people the right to complain about it for those that enjoy it.

    Like I said, we all know I hate SFIV but I don't go up to the SFIV subforums and bitch about it.

    But I'm done with that; one thing I wanted to ask an opinion is what do anyone think of the broken tier (Athena, Red, Shin Gouki and Karate) amongst themselves? I always wondered if the amount of brokeness each of them had would make for interesting matches just against one another and I haven't seen them match-uped against each other very often.



    Athena, Red, Shin Gouki, and True Mr. Karate are not even available in the arcade version of the game. For the most part they aren't in tier list, because it's impossible to play with them. Unless you personally hack the bios on your MVS cabinet, which I've never seen before. I know there were setups in Mexico and China with it, but I've never seen one in the US.
    M.O.D.O.K Avengers - Minister Of Defense
    The Turtle Master, but my name ain't Splinter
    Hitting down/back so fast, you think I was using macros
  • PaolochunPaolochun so that I / can say I'm on your side Joined: Posts: 11,306 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I haven't logged in enough console version hours to gauge. I think it would be Shin Akuma on top though, if his MO is the same as regular Akuma's. That, and his supers are fast and meterless. (Meter exists for Max Mode, and his SGS, which is L1.)

    Does human-controlled Arremer randomly spawn minions like the boss version? That seems pretty troublesome for the less mobile characters.
    "The secret to strength is daily training."
    Chun-Li Street Fighter V training mode
  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    I haven't logged in enough console version hours to gauge. I think it would be Shin Akuma on top though, if his MO is the same as regular Akuma's. That, and his supers are fast and meterless. (Meter exists for Max Mode, and his SGS, which is L1.)

    Does human-controlled Arremer randomly spawn minions like the boss version? That seems pretty troublesome for the less mobile characters.

    I think its actually possible to use the boss characters on one type of the arcade board, it was the AES version and you input codes just like the midbosses on the select screen or either turn on developer mode (which I think is the mame rom called the "super version"). In the console both Shin Gouki/Karate are already available but Red and Athena must be unlocked. I did it on my shitty Xbox version but haven't bothered yet on my PS2 import version.

    Actually I always thought of Shin Gouki being the best out of the big four as well just because of the teleport (which has no recovery) which allows him to get around the mad zoning options of Karate and Arremer. But its pretty close, I'd say. I'd love to see solid level matches of them against one another. I'm scared of Athena too, because her specials (which all look like supers approriately enough) have such amounts of invulnerability and some are unblockable.

    And yes, the player controlled version of Red has all the summons seen in the CPU version. I would say a player would be even more dangerous with him seeing as they wouldn't be "random" and could set up the minions for some really interesting set-ups. Although the other three can ignore this to an extent (especially Mr. Karate) as his triple Haoh Shoku Ken can just wipe them away.
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • Emperor PaineEmperor Paine Hakkenden Sensei Joined: Posts: 363
    I can't hate this game.
    When it first came out on Xbox I bought the game and was humbled by some good players.
    I got some matches still saved and I can upload them if anyone wants to see them.

    As for a teir list; I remember one gaming magazine saying something on the lines of this....
    (please don't get pissed about this. It was an old list)
    A tier: Zero, Geese, Riot Iori
    B tier: Shin Akuma, Serious Mr. Karate, Mars People, Sagat, Earthquake, Tessa, Chun Li, Geonitz, Demitri (if that's spelled right?)
    C tier: Violent Ken, Terry, Kyo, Iori, Ryo, Ken, Ryu, Kim, Guile, Red what the fuck ever demon..........(lol)
    D tier: Mai, Athena, Kasumi, Vega, Shiki, Choi, Bison
    E tier: Genjiuro, Hugo, Balrog, Dan (I think was the last one)

    Again this was some old ass tier list some gaming magazine came up with.
    From a friend of mine who lives up in Washinton state; he tells me an arcade of the game is still up there and the game is still being played.


    Also here is the link to some random bs combo vid people came up with for the game.
    ...........
  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    I got some matches still saved and I can upload them if anyone wants to see them.

    Yes, please.

    As for a teir list; I remember one gaming magazine saying something on the lines of this....
    (please don't get pissed about this. It was an old list)
    A tier: Zero, Geese, Riot Iori
    B tier: Shin Akuma, Serious Mr. Karate, Mars People, Sagat, Earthquake, Tessa, Chun Li, Geonitz, Demitri (if that's spelled right?)
    C tier: Violent Ken, Terry, Kyo, Iori, Ryo, Ken, Ryu, Kim, Guile, Red what the fuck ever demon..........(lol)
    D tier: Mai, Athena, Kasumi, Vega, Shiki, Choi, Bison
    E tier: Genjiuro, Hugo, Balrog, Dan

    Haha. Lmao @ Athena being D tier among other things.

    If I had to make a list, it'd be more like this:

    Broken Tier: Shin Gouki, Serious Mr. Karate, Athena, Red Arremer
    S Tier: Geese, Zero, Orochi Iori
    A Tier: Goenitz, Violent Ken, Demetri, Guile, Terry, Tessa, Chun Li
    B Tier: Kyo, Iori, Gouki, Shiki, Ryu, Ken, Sagat, Kim, Sim, Mars People
    C Tier: Kasumi, Choi, Mai, Earthquake, Genjuro , Ryo, Mr. Karate
    D Tier: Boxer, Dictator, Claw, Hugo
    E Tier: Dan
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Joined: Posts: 0
    Yes, but at the same time don't pretend like there isn't footage available. I linked several tourney match vids (all upped by the same person on YT, he should have more); the matches I have are sourced from that same group of players and have some more characters as well. What exactly are you looking for?

    Did you not learn anything from that match? What's your thoughts on it? Is he better or worse than you are? Its true that footage overall is limited but that is pretty high/solid level play from those people.

    Yeah the matches are great, I just meant that I wish the game got more attention but by that same token I know why it didn't lol. Anyhow I dont really know how good I am in this game, I think I have a good enough grasp on it but I only really had XBL comp. Although with the talk of the tiers in this game, I honestly don't know why the unlockable characters are simply not banned. Granted the game would still be far from perfectly balanced, but we could at least stop having people constantly complain over the tiers in this game.
    "What one person sees as degrading and disgusting and bad for women might make some women feel empowered and beautiful and strong."
    - Sasha Grey
  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    Although with the talk of the tiers in this game, I honestly don't know why the unlockable characters are simply not banned. Granted the game would still be far from perfectly balanced, but we could at least stop having people constantly complain over the tiers in this game.

    Because simply put, the game is best played for casuals. Also as I briefly discussed in the fighting game lounge earlier, the midbosses being banned may very well be the case in the asian tournies fiol and I linked earlier. I have not run across an "official ruleset" for their tournies and considering most games do not allow characters you would have to enter in codes to use on an arcade cabinet (you have to do so in the arcade version) they probably were banned. Seeing as players over there certainly aren't shy to tier whore and there was no midboss characters in the placings, its the only explanation.
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • Return of ShikiReturn of Shiki Your favorite game sucks Joined: Posts: 4,389

    Broken Tier: Shin Gouki, Serious Mr. Karate, Athena, Red Arremer
    S Tier: Geese, Zero, Orochi Iori
    A Tier: Goenitz, Violent Ken, Demetri, Guile, Terry, Tessa, Chun Li
    B Tier: Kyo, Iori, Gouki, Shiki, Ryu, Ken, Sagat, Kim, Sim, Mars People
    C Tier: Kasumi, Choi, Mai, Earthquake, Genjuro , Ryo, Mr. Karate
    D Tier: Boxer, Dictator, Claw, Hugo
    E Tier: Dan

    I agree with this tier list, however Hugo and Mai need to be a little higher, and Earthquake and Mr. Karate need to be way higher.
    Mr. Karate is easily the best non-boss shoto in the game.
    If you listen to fools, the mob rules...
  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    I agree with this tier list, however Hugo and Mai need to be a little higher, and Earthquake and Mr. Karate need to be way higher.
    Mr. Karate is easily the best non-boss shoto in the game.

    Hugo I can agree with, after I saw that really good one in the Asian tourney. His offense and knowledge for best air normals was simply fantastic and his baiting of Guard Cancel dash was great. Also, having the Gigas Breaker as only a 360 instead of 720 makes it very cheap after a successful GCFS. He has good combo options, being able to have all of his supers and stuff like comboing Hammer Frenzy off of lps. He can also combo and basically make an inescapable tick throw off of claps into regular 360. So maybe B tier, but he'd undoubtedly be at the bottom simply because his size is a large set-back, especially to those with good zoning options.

    Mai...I wouldn't move her up. Simply put she is a vastly buffed version of NGBC BUT with the inclusion of GCFS her mix-ups and usual trickery become far less safe than in KOF or Battle Coliseum, where most of the time they would be neutral at worst. Other than that she has very good tools, mobility but she is held back from using them very much and has to be more defensive.

    You spoke of Mr. Karate and he's def solid, but I don't know if he's on the same tier as Gouki. I picked him up a few months back and he def has a strong zoning, SFII style game, which is amazing in this system but he needs better normals and ways to bait GFCS. He does take good damage (the least in the game behind Hugo) and Hien Shippu can be hard to punish sometimes even with GCFS but other's such as Gouki simply have more to work with (godlike divekick, air fireballs, mix-ups off demon flip, stronger [corner] combos, better normals). I'm curious as to your thoughts on why he would be higher.

    Earthquake I can't see either. He just seems too unsafe with his mix-ups and is also a big target. However, his normals aren't good like Hugo's. He has some nice supers and an annoying zoning game with fart projectile but that's all I see. If if weren't for some of this stuff he'd be almost as bad as dictator because you don't even need to use GCFS to punish a lot of his stuff (ie. waste of meter to use GFCS on dictator most of the time; if you block scissor kicks, free combo). =/
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • ChuvyliciousChuvylicious Joined: Posts: 441
    Like a member on here said, if you dont use the bosses the game is actually fun. A couple buddies of mine would play it online on kaillera and would just have fun. The things that people call "broken" actually work well together when you know how to play and play against people that know how to play. The reason I like this game is due to the fact that they did not water down any snk characters like they do in other capcom vs snk games. Snk is strong and so is capcom, of course some have some stuff that others may not like but that's why you adapt and play smart. To give an example, here are the pages of my buddies and the videos that they have recorded: http://www.youtube.com/user/cdmejia#p/u , this guy, Age, has dan casuals and is the best svc player, http://www.youtube.com/user/SvChamp#p/u/34/3rDzsxJoNBY .
  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    here are the pages of my buddies and the videos that they have recorded: http://www.youtube.com/user/cdmejia#p/u

    Good matches. I like the Akuma. and the mix-ups in particular.

    The Dictator match was interesting to watch.
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • PaolochunPaolochun so that I / can say I'm on your side Joined: Posts: 11,306 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Ryu is a pretty good shoto here I think. Press buttons, link to Shinkuu Hadouken. Good priority on the SRK too. Akuma is around A or B, A in the right hands I guess, it's just the low hp that hampers him IMO (same weakness as O. Iori). Demon flip and air fireballs are really good. I would put (normal) Iori a notch higher if Terry's there, too. Does what KOF Iori can do more or less + strong Max Mode stuff. It's akin to his KOF 2002 max stuff, but maybe better since the qcfx4 + :snka::snkc: explosion followup to his Ya Otome is meterless in this game.

    Kim close :snkc: to Exceed = lol
    "The secret to strength is daily training."
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Joined: Posts: 0
    Based on my experience and from what I have observed:

    A Tier: Guile,Tessa,Chun Li,Terry,Gouki,Kyo,Iori
    A- Tier: Shiki,Ryu,Ken,Sagat,Kim,Sim,Kasumi
    B Tier: Mr.Karate,Ryo,Choi,Mai,Genjuro,Earthquake
    C Tier: Hugo,Boxer,Dictator,Claw

    I don't feel as if the tiers are that divided, but aside from that I agree with the list with a few exceptions.
    "What one person sees as degrading and disgusting and bad for women might make some women feel empowered and beautiful and strong."
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  • Return of ShikiReturn of Shiki Your favorite game sucks Joined: Posts: 4,389
    Hugo I can agree with, after I saw that really good one in the Asian tourney. His offense and knowledge for best air normals was simply fantastic and his baiting of Guard Cancel dash was great. Also, having the Gigas Breaker as only a 360 instead of 720 makes it very cheap after a successful GCFS. He has good combo options, being able to have all of his supers and stuff like comboing Hammer Frenzy off of lps. He can also combo and basically make an inescapable tick throw off of claps into regular 360. So maybe B tier, but he'd undoubtedly be at the bottom simply because his size is a large set-back, especially to those with good zoning options.

    Not only is his Gigas Breaker insanely good, the rest of his throws are just plain good. Ultra Throw is really good and Megaton Press from it is just really solid damage. His jabs and f+A are really good at annoying people and chipping life. Good GCFS bait too. He's still not THAT high because of people like Guile and Tessa that he has way too hard of a time getting, that's why I said he's only a tad underrated. In non-boss SvC, he's actually much better.
    Mai...I wouldn't move her up. Simply put she is a vastly buffed version of NGBC BUT with the inclusion of GCFS her mix-ups and usual trickery become far less safe than in KOF or Battle Coliseum, where most of the time they would be neutral at worst. Other than that she has very good tools, mobility but she is held back from using them very much and has to be more defensive.

    *shrug* I simply disagree. I think she can still runaway very well. She's basically what Vega SHOULD have been in this game. Her Fire Twirl super is stupidly easy to crossup with and very hard to punish.
    You spoke of Mr. Karate and he's def solid, but I don't know if he's on the same tier as Gouki. I picked him up a few months back and he def has a strong zoning, SFII style game, which is amazing in this system but he needs better normals and ways to bait GFCS. He does take good damage (the least in the game behind Hugo) and Hien Shippu can be hard to punish sometimes even with GCFS but other's such as Gouki simply have more to work with (godlike divekick, air fireballs, mix-ups off demon flip, stronger [corner] combos, better normals). I'm curious as to your thoughts on why he would be higher.

    I think you all are overrating Akuma quite a bit. His air fireball is good, but it's not THAT good, especially in a game like SvC.
    The main problem with Akuma is his really bad defense. That matters A LOT in SvC since so many characters have insane damage options. Akuma can do all the fancy mixups and chip that he wants, and he'll still die in 2 combos or less depending on the character.
    Mr. Karate is just really solid. He's not really top-tier, but I don't see how he's below Ryu and Akuma. Kyokugen KoHou is really buff anti-air. Shoran Kyaku is a really good command grab. His ground fireball covers better space than Hadoukens as it is more likely to catch people out of jumping frames. Hien Shippu Kyaku is just beastly and his Exceed does 60% and has excellent invincibility.
    Earthquake I can't see either. He just seems too unsafe with his mix-ups and is also a big target. However, his normals aren't good like Hugo's. He has some nice supers and an annoying zoning game with fart projectile but that's all I see. If if weren't for some of this stuff he'd be almost as bad as dictator because you don't even need to use GCFS to punish a lot of his stuff (ie. waste of meter to use GFCS on dictator most of the time; if you block scissor kicks, free combo). =/

    Are we really talking about the same Earthquake?
    The only normal he needs is standing D, and it gets the job done. Occasionally you may need standing B, C, or throw.
    If you're fighting an Earthquake that isn't safe, then you're not fighting somebody who knows what they're doing with Earthquake.
    I don't see how EQ is less than A-tier, especially in non-boss SvC.
    If you listen to fools, the mob rules...
  • GravelneedGravelneed God, Why does SFxT exist? - Luisa Ferre Joined: Posts: 974
    Finally people caring about this game. All the in-depth talk is great.

    This game was awesome after I had bought the first SNK vs Capcom.
    ....but the Arcana Heart 2 stick smells like sweet bubblegum and crisp rainbows and early sunshine and happy smiles and fresh tulips and oohh- deadfrog
  • Return of ShikiReturn of Shiki Your favorite game sucks Joined: Posts: 4,389
    I also forgot to mention that Mr. Karate has one of the very best defense ratings in the game. That goes a long way to making him the best shoto. The only thing he doesn't have on Ryu and Akuma are braindead ways to convert random jabs or crouching Bs into really big damage.
    I don't think Kyokugen KoHou combos from light attacks, but it's been quite a while since I played so I may be wrong.
    If you listen to fools, the mob rules...
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Joined: Posts: 0
    Mr.karate is a good character for sure, I don't know if his combo's are as reliabe as the other shoto's but he's still pretty damn good. IMO, my personal tier listing would go "Top,Upper,High and mid" (A,A-,B,C) as I dont feel there is any real low tiers or non-viable characters in the game.
    "What one person sees as degrading and disgusting and bad for women might make some women feel empowered and beautiful and strong."
    - Sasha Grey
  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    All right. Its wonderful we've got some nice discussion going; good to see this thread going somewhere.
    Ryu is a pretty good shoto here I think. Press buttons, link to Shinkuu Hadouken. Good priority on the SRK too. Akuma is around A or B, A in the right hands I guess, it's just the low hp that hampers him IMO (same weakness as O. Iori). Demon flip and air fireballs are really good. I would put (normal) Iori a notch higher if Terry's there, too. Does what KOF Iori can do more or less + strong Max Mode stuff. It's akin to his KOF 2002 max stuff, but maybe better since the qcfx4 + :snka::snkc: explosion followup to his Ya Otome is meterless in this game.

    Kim close :snkc: to Exceed = lol

    Orochi Iori is directly next to regular Iori in defense ratings. He takes more or less normal damage so I don't know what you mean, here?

    BTW I'm pretty certain qcfx4 is not meterless. Its like 1/2 bar requirement.
    *shrug* I simply disagree. I think she can still runaway very well. She's basically what Vega SHOULD have been in this game. Her Fire Twirl super is stupidly easy to crossup with and very hard to punish.

    Fire twirl isn't at all safe or hard to punish; even when I was forced to use my shitty xbox version and couldn't do GCFS as I would like (or commands for that matter) just about anyone's 5C/5D/quick activating super punished it pretty easily. I do agree it crosses up well and it makes a funky anti-air.
    I think you all are overrating Akuma quite a bit. His air fireball is good, but it's not THAT good, especially in a game like SvC.
    The main problem with Akuma is his really bad defense. That matters A LOT in SvC since so many characters have insane damage options. Akuma can do all the fancy mixups and chip that he wants, and he'll still die in 2 combos or less depending on the character.
    Mr. Karate is just really solid. He's not really top-tier, but I don't see how he's below Ryu and Akuma. Kyokugen KoHou is really buff anti-air. Shoran Kyaku is a really good command grab. His ground fireball covers better space than Hadoukens as it is more likely to catch people out of jumping frames. Hien Shippu Kyaku is just beastly and his Exceed does 60% and has excellent invincibility.

    But Tier lists are based on high level play of characters, not some Akuma players that make mistakes all over the place. So in the best scenario, one would be using teleports to escape and possibly punish corner traps, air fireballs to bait AA attempts and jump-ins. His mobility is better than Mr. Karate as well and the deal breaker to me is normals and the shotos are better across the board, particularly db+B which is surprisingly strong against GCFS in this game. Their ability to punish and combo is higher as well, which naturally affects tier ratings...being able to convert damage off of fast and sometimes random hit confirms is pretty important. Shoran Kyaku is a good command grab only if your opponent respects you enough to not hit you out of it...and it is very easy to hit him out of it or avoid it.

    I never said he was horrible but I can't possibly see how he's not worse than the others except for Ryo whom I would place him above. I did already emphasis his high defense modifier in my previous post also.
    Are we really talking about the same Earthquake?
    The only normal he needs is standing D, and it gets the job done. Occasionally you may need standing B, C, or throw.
    If you're fighting an Earthquake that isn't safe, then you're not fighting somebody who knows what they're doing with Earthquake.
    I don't see how EQ is less than A-tier, especially in non-boss SvC.

    I don't know but I'm pretty willing to admit I could be mistaken on this. Like, how would you describe a "good" earthquake and his gameplan? What common moves would he use, and in what senarios? How would he escape being crossed-up, outzoned and bait GCFS?

    From what I've played after you get past that 'shock factor' and his fart set-ups he's really not that threatening but at the same time I won't be stupid and say I've fought the best world players. So, looking forward to hear about these.
    I don't think Kyokugen KoHou combos from light attacks, but it's been quite a while since I played so I may be wrong.

    The only things that combo from light attacks are the DPs, uppercut super (236X2+K), the command overheads/attacks. Following the universal rule almost everyone can combo a special after a cancelable command attack that should open up more options however.
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    BTW, this thread has got me hyped to start playing again. Like a lot of things, I sort of stopped a bit to focus on Melty but now I feel like getting back into it again.

    Gonna hit practice mode and see if I can get the SNK heads over here to record soon. Looking forward to hearing your reply about Earthquake Shiki, because I think I may just start playing him to see if I can get up some good footage (don't see any from the asian players or any good footage from anyone else on YT so far).
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • N4UsN4Us Joined: Posts: 236
    What are the differences between the Xbox/PS2 versions?
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  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    Basically Xbox looks great but (at least to me using the pad, perhaps stick players did/did not have this problem) but the command inputs were off and messed up. I couldn't pull of rekkas with consistently and with a good deal of effort, despite doing them for years. GCFS was really hard for me to do for some reason, etc. This was regardless of whether I put the option for inputs on Arcade or Console.

    Also they changed a few move properties whereas the PS2 version isn't. And or course Xbox has online (not like that matters now though).
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • PaolochunPaolochun so that I / can say I'm on your side Joined: Posts: 11,306 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    re: regular Iori

    I meant in the tiers, those that I've seen usually put the 2 Ioris in the same rank. I think both are pretty buff in this game.

    O. Iori has the better Exceed. I've seen normal Iori's land once or twice, but usually the players simply bait it out, and throw him when he tries it (lol Counter ultra). The new grab super was great I guess.
    "The secret to strength is daily training."
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  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    4neqs, you said to me on YT that people over there still play SvC or you have a small following for it over there? I was wondering if you could record some footage, possibly? It'd be nice to have someone from around her besides me upload stuff. =)

    About Ioris: Generally regular does more damage, with Rekkas and the Ya Otome while the Orochi does less but can combo easier since his lights chain (ie. like KOFXI), also his dash and mobility is very, very annoying and his normal dash actually goes under midlevel projectiles. His version of Ya Otome has a ton of invincibility and just plain goes right through a lot of stuff but thank god its just as unsafe on block as regular's. Also unlike the CvS2 version he has scum gale just like regular version so cross-up kick ~ scum scale is still there. And he takes decent damage, too. The final thing is of course GCFS baiting in that he is so fast it won't be happening very much...I actually think its better to look for punishes normally than with GCFS! I'm not disagreeing with you though, just saying.
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • PaolochunPaolochun so that I / can say I'm on your side Joined: Posts: 11,306 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Yeah, there were tourneys here from years past iirc. I'll see if I can contact the regulars and ask them about footage.
    "The secret to strength is daily training."
    Chun-Li Street Fighter V training mode
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Joined: Posts: 0
    The box version has harsh imputs but then again I was uing the xbox d-pad lol. Anyhow, coming back to this game I realize that from the 24 characters (hidden characters dont exist in competitive play IMO) the game is rather decent in terms of it's balance. I don't know of the exact match-up's, but from the time I played it didn't really feel like any of the regular 24 characters hand any overwhealming advantage to the point where the game was ruined.

    P.S

    When you guys record the games, just use the regular cast. I don't think the hidden characters should be viable for competitive play so just stick with the regular dudes.
    "What one person sees as degrading and disgusting and bad for women might make some women feel empowered and beautiful and strong."
    - Sasha Grey
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