SVC - When It's So Bad It's Good

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  • Violent RyoViolent Ryo Mistuurrr KaraTEH! Joined: Posts: 382
    Good Dimitri strats Tech Romancer.

    I always thought SNK did an exceptional job with Dimitri, especially his design.

    Why is this in the KOF (strat) section?
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  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    This subforum really should be changed to "SNK games".
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
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  • PaolochunPaolochun so that I / can say I'm on your side Joined: Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    No official tier lists, but it's mostly accepted that Geese and Zero are the top two... and I'd say Orochi Iori is a close third. Then, a bunch of good characters after that... Tessa, Guile, Chun-Li, regular Iori, etc.

    Yeah, Demitri's about shoto zoning, and then landing the hunter chain + pursuit if ever they get near. The EX (not Exceed) fireball is nuts.
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  • NocturnalNocturnal SNK Supporter Joined: Posts: 2,977 mod
    Wasn't Tessa's ghost used for like an unblockable setup that required you crossup up with jump D while the ghost hit on wake up? Correct me if I'm wrong.
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  • PaolochunPaolochun so that I / can say I'm on your side Joined: Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Yes. iirc You could set up the ghost after you knocked down someone with her command throw.
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  • TizocTizoc Joined: Posts: 11,406
    Why is this in the KOF (strat) section?
    Isn't it obvious? The game plays like KoF.
    No official tier lists, but it's mostly accepted that Geese and Zero are the top two... and I'd say Orochi Iori is a close third. Then, a bunch of good characters after that... Tessa, Guile, Chun-Li, regular Iori, etc.
    Mind elaborating on why Tessa, Guile and especially Iori are so low? Iori was among the best characters in most KoF's IIRC.
    #1 - There is no official tier list.
    Alright then, which characters have the hardest time beating other characters? This may sound weird, but what I mean is; in Garou Tizoc is considered the weakest character in the game, what characters in SvC are like that?
    #2 - The Jamming Ghost is technically a Projectile but its not used for fireball wars or similar things, its too slow. Its best used as an oki option after you knock the opponent down or when you have time enough to release it. Its used for pressure and if it hits, you can potentially combo off it. The ghosts dissipate if Tabasa is hit or grabbed.
    Thanks, but is when should one attack? Is it after the 4 ghosts hit the opponent?
    # 3 - Like Darkstalkers, Demetri has chain combos. The Rule, just like Vampire is weaker to stronger and is like this:

    * LP > LK > MP > MK > HP > HK

    To do that, you have to learn his command moves (which function like normals in a capcom game and are cancelable into each other). A full chain would be like: f + A > A > B > C > D or whatever. A shorter one (and starts low) is like: df + B > A > d+D...that's a standard sweep combo.
    I see, I know how to do chain combos based off what I read in K. Megura's FAQ.
    Besides that you zone with air and ground fireballs as the distance permits. Even fairly close its good because he has great recovery. His Exceed (Demon Flare) isn't fancy but gets the job done, basically a pumped fireball with almost zilch recovery. You can set up midnight pleasure against people that try to GFCS too often. His dash is a teleport when you hold BC and you can go through some things with this. One fun mindgame is to buffer in Midnight Pleasure as it ends or the DP followup. The Bat Spin is really useful for fireball punishment. Besides that, Uppercut/fireball game like a shoto.
    Alright, thanks for the info:china:
    "You have to be a badass if you ride a giant seahorse." -Grant Morrison on why Aquaman is badass
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  • PaolochunPaolochun so that I / can say I'm on your side Joined: Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    ^Nah, to clarify, I meant those characters are the top/high tier. Guile with reduced charge time is especially nasty.

    Low tier would be something like Dictator/Claw/Hugo imo, since a lot of their stuff can be shut down by good zoning and GCFS.
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  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    Thanks, but is when should one attack? Is it after the 4 ghosts hit the opponent?

    If the ghosts hit, they'll turn into four and slightly "drag" your opponent towards you. Don't get fancy with it, its more a tool to irritate/annoy/pressure the opponent. "Shit to put on the screen".

    I made a tier earlier of my own if you're interested:

    Broken Tier: Shin Gouki, Serious Mr. Karate, Athena, Red Arremer
    S Tier: Geese, Zero, Orochi Iori
    A Tier: Goenitz, Violent Ken, Demetri, Guile, Terry, Tessa, Chun Li
    B Tier: Kyo, Iori, Gouki, Shiki, Ryu, Ken, Sagat, Kim, Sim, Mars People
    C Tier: Kasumi, Choi, Mai, Earthquake, Genjuro , Ryo, Mr. Karate
    D Tier: Boxer, Dictator, Claw, Hugo
    E Tier: Dan

    In particular I think its pretty good but there was a bit of debate on Earthquake, Mai. I think Earthquake has a good match up against Geese for example but I think Mai should stay where she is.
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    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • TizocTizoc Joined: Posts: 11,406
    Thanks for the list, if you don't mind, could you elaborate on the D and E tier characters and the difficulties they have against the other characters?
    "You have to be a badass if you ride a giant seahorse." -Grant Morrison on why Aquaman is badass
    "Game Over, Snively. ...Thanks for playing." -Dr. Eggman, Sonic Universe #40
    "I'm stinking of animal blood...As of now I'm a vegetarian. And this is Bat-cow." -Damian Wayne
  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    4neqs pretty much already clarified it, but....

    Dictator is THE worst of D tier, bar none. His normals aren't as good as they are in other games and they didn't give him a command move equivalent of st.mk. He's pretty unsafe besides maybe his stomp/dive stuff. Blocked scissor kicks don't even required GCFS to punish. Just block and attack. He can only combo into lp Psycho crusher from lights (and only lps mind you, not lks unless its a link or something). And if you mess up for some reason and it gets blocked your ass is grass. HP Psycho Crusher is just annoying but its not enough. His exceed is damn good, but so are several other peoples.

    Boxer is a bit better. He actually can potentially go up a tier on my list, but the fact you can GCFS against his dash punches kinda blows. The timings a bit strict, but still. He's got decent combos but getting around good zoners is still a problem.

    Claw is only slightly better than bison. Wall dives and stuff just aren't worth a damn. He's got some crappy hitbox issues that aren't in his favor either. His supers are pretty meh also. Okay pokes I guess, but don't try that shit on anyone with meter.

    Dan...do I even have to explain? Well, okay. What's interesting is that he got some shit from the Takuma dojo, apparently, getting Ryo's qcb+p with more start up but being unblockable and a special version of Haoh Ken. But look, who cares, his regular projectile isn't even at Alpha 2 usefulness, his tatsu sucks, sucky combos, no way to zone with even decent characters, his shoryu super fucks up half the time on hit... This dude just gets eaten alive. The real joke is they made him a midboss character.
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • PaolochunPaolochun so that I / can say I'm on your side Joined: Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Yeah, pretty much what you can hope for with Dictator is stomp spam, and combos into scissors/Psycho Crushers. Against a decent shoto/GCFS user, you're pretty much dead.
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  • TizocTizoc Joined: Posts: 11,406
    Wow...
    Thanks again for the info.
    I wonder if this game will do well when it comes to PSN...I personally will just borrow it from my friend if he gets it, and main Dimitri.
    "You have to be a badass if you ride a giant seahorse." -Grant Morrison on why Aquaman is badass
    "Game Over, Snively. ...Thanks for playing." -Dr. Eggman, Sonic Universe #40
    "I'm stinking of animal blood...As of now I'm a vegetarian. And this is Bat-cow." -Damian Wayne
  • NocturnalNocturnal SNK Supporter Joined: Posts: 2,977 mod
    I think Hugo isn't too bad. Main problem is he has a giant hitbox and has problems vs zone type characters: Guile, Tessa, Sagat, Dhalsim, Dimitri, etc. It was already stated that he has problems with GCFS but I suppose that goes for most characters anyways. He has a lot of his 3S stuff which is nice. I also love that he can combo into his grabs which really helps out. The tier list seems pretty good though for the most part. I might do a little Hugo write up if anyone is interested.
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  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    Yeah, sure. Might learn something about him I didn't already know...

    Also, for those that haven't seen it yet:



    Check out the Hugo player.
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • TizocTizoc Joined: Posts: 11,406
    I think Hugo isn't too bad. Main problem is he has a giant hitbox and has problems vs zone type characters: Guile, Tessa, Sagat, Dhalsim, Dimitri, etc. It was already stated that he has problems with GCFS but I suppose that goes for most characters anyways. He has a lot of his 3S stuff which is nice. I also love that he can combo into his grabs which really helps out. The tier list seems pretty good though for the most part. I might do a little Hugo write up if anyone is interested.

    Go for it, I would like to read your inputs on Hugo =3
    "You have to be a badass if you ride a giant seahorse." -Grant Morrison on why Aquaman is badass
    "Game Over, Snively. ...Thanks for playing." -Dr. Eggman, Sonic Universe #40
    "I'm stinking of animal blood...As of now I'm a vegetarian. And this is Bat-cow." -Damian Wayne
  • AcidGlowAcidGlow ~Misogi~ Joined: Posts: 407
    Athena is not God/Broken tier. All ya have to do is play it safe and block low alot as you advance towards her. All her special moves are unsafe on block with her. Boss Karate has some balance to him. Shin Akuma would've been fine but why in the blue hell did they give him infinite super moves? That was just stupid..

    And yeah, Bison is really bad in this game. Normal fierce attacks are slow and his combo ability relies on cr. FP. His kick super has way too much start up and his exceed does aswell.. X_X
  • XTGXTG Gimme mah DYREKTEEV Joined: Posts: 2,363
    Athena is not God/Broken tier. All ya have to do is play it safe and block low alot as you advance towards her. All her special moves are unsafe on block with her. Boss Karate has some balance to him. Shin Akuma would've been fine but why in the blue hell did they give him infinite super moves? That was just stupid..

    And yeah, Bison is really bad in this game. Normal fierce attacks are slow and his combo ability relies on cr. FP. His kick super has way too much start up and his exceed does aswell.. X_X

    You just need to get people to start playing SVC Remix.
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  • AcidGlowAcidGlow ~Misogi~ Joined: Posts: 407
    Dunno what remix you're talking about.
  • PaolochunPaolochun so that I / can say I'm on your side Joined: Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Iori/Orochi Iori max mode bnb. Random-ish, and forgot to cut the vid length to just the combo. Aside from their speed, throws, and their supers, this is how they differ.


    "The secret to strength is daily training."
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  • Stuart HaydenStuart Hayden Outspoken User. Joined: Posts: 11,639
    As mentioned before, if you ban all the boss characters (save for Dan) the game is fine.
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  • GibyGiby SoCal SNK Joined: Posts: 742
    Some SvC matches from day one XBL. Not the greatest, but still fun to watch

    http://www.youtube.com/user/Giby
  • The Electrifying OneThe Electrifying One Coming4EVO Joined: Posts: 1,282
    Capcom Exec and co-producer of Streetfighter 2 in interview with Sega Saturn Magazine, 1998:
    "The Days when people really loved playing computers games has ended. This is mainly because of Sony. Sony has created a new era of light users who consider games to be just an everyday form of general entertainment- nothing special. The kind of games we used to see from Nintendo have gone. These are the games that children used to play, but now they don't."
    Capcom Exec and co-producer of Streetfighter 2 in interview with Sega Saturn Magazine, 1998:
    "The Days when people really loved playing computers games has ended. This is mainly because of Sony. Sony has created a new era of light users who consider games to be just an everyday form of general entertainment- nothing special. The kind of games we used to see from Nintendo have gone. These are the games that children used to play, but now they don't."
  • PaolochunPaolochun so that I / can say I'm on your side Joined: Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I think banning the non-boss hiddens isn't necessary. There are quite a few strong default cast characters already (Guile, Chun-Li, Tessa, Iori etc). It's like MvC2 in the sense that if you take away the the god tier, the top tier will emerge as the new god tier to take their place because they're no longer kept in check.

    imo It's kinda like MvC2/SFA3 in the sense that when you learn to embrace the games flaws/balance/messed up hitboxes, it can be ok.

    Got a bunch of casual vids, will try and upload.
    "The secret to strength is daily training."
    Chun-Li Street Fighter V training mode
  • PaolochunPaolochun so that I / can say I'm on your side Joined: Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    "The secret to strength is daily training."
    Chun-Li Street Fighter V training mode
  • PaolochunPaolochun so that I / can say I'm on your side Joined: Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Above vids and more, now in playlist form. http://www.youtube.com/playlist?p=PL2829F9992C3332EE

    Next batch will be better now that I've borrowed a cam. Can't do anything about the karaoke bg sounds though.
    "The secret to strength is daily training."
    Chun-Li Street Fighter V training mode
  • The Electrifying OneThe Electrifying One Coming4EVO Joined: Posts: 1,282
    so nobody here even tried remix???

    This is what frustrates me about the whole SVC 'debate' everyone seems desperate to write it off as a useless game, yet even the vanilla arcade version is a viable and popular game in Asia and is a really common machine all over the world. It's a FUN GAME with some issues, yet when a lot of these issues are FIXED (i.e input problems with chargers etc), everyone ignores it.

    wtf? You are all playing on emus with roms anyway, why not play the FIXED version? Just cos it wasn't officially released by SNKP?????

    please explain, people in this thread.
    Capcom Exec and co-producer of Streetfighter 2 in interview with Sega Saturn Magazine, 1998:
    "The Days when people really loved playing computers games has ended. This is mainly because of Sony. Sony has created a new era of light users who consider games to be just an everyday form of general entertainment- nothing special. The kind of games we used to see from Nintendo have gone. These are the games that children used to play, but now they don't."
    Capcom Exec and co-producer of Streetfighter 2 in interview with Sega Saturn Magazine, 1998:
    "The Days when people really loved playing computers games has ended. This is mainly because of Sony. Sony has created a new era of light users who consider games to be just an everyday form of general entertainment- nothing special. The kind of games we used to see from Nintendo have gone. These are the games that children used to play, but now they don't."
  • Lord_RaptorLord_Raptor Joined: Posts: 8,810
    I've never heard of Remix, and it not being official probably has alot to do with it
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  • PaolochunPaolochun so that I / can say I'm on your side Joined: Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Never heard of it.
    "The secret to strength is daily training."
    Chun-Li Street Fighter V training mode
  • NocturnalNocturnal SNK Supporter Joined: Posts: 2,977 mod
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  • FaceMeAndBeBrokenFaceMeAndBeBroken FUCK JAPANESE STICKS Joined: Posts: 3,518
    ^ Wow. Fuck that mess.

    Then again, since this is a game I dont play seriously, I keep inifinte max mode and exceed. Just like I turn all the system directions on in 3S. But still not feeling the Iori super change the now blockable moves, boss nerfs ect.
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  • LavamaLavama Joined: Posts: 8
    I love this game. Now, if only I could find people that play it :\
  • The Electrifying OneThe Electrifying One Coming4EVO Joined: Posts: 1,282
    Go to Asia it's really common and popular
    Capcom Exec and co-producer of Streetfighter 2 in interview with Sega Saturn Magazine, 1998:
    "The Days when people really loved playing computers games has ended. This is mainly because of Sony. Sony has created a new era of light users who consider games to be just an everyday form of general entertainment- nothing special. The kind of games we used to see from Nintendo have gone. These are the games that children used to play, but now they don't."
    Capcom Exec and co-producer of Streetfighter 2 in interview with Sega Saturn Magazine, 1998:
    "The Days when people really loved playing computers games has ended. This is mainly because of Sony. Sony has created a new era of light users who consider games to be just an everyday form of general entertainment- nothing special. The kind of games we used to see from Nintendo have gone. These are the games that children used to play, but now they don't."
  • SF-Zero2SF-Zero2 Pronounced AlphaZero Joined: Posts: 1,373
    I was surprised to see my local arcade in CO still has a cab for this. And KOFXI
  • UbersaurusUbersaurus RIP Kinn "ROBOTRON" Joined: Posts: 1,240 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Remix looks like it has a lot of questionable motion changes.
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  • orochizoolanderorochizoolander 2LANDER! Joined: Posts: 15,631
    No official tier lists, but it's mostly accepted that Geese and Zero are the top two... and I'd say Orochi Iori is a close third.

    :rofl:

    I only played it on xbl, but having played enough to be #1 n xbl I can at least say for sure that shina akuma, goenitz, dimitri, red arremer, serious mr karate, violent ken are definitely better.

    Also that doesn't include the other lower tier characters with infinites like tessa, earthquake, etc.
    P. gorath said: seriously though, it really crystalized how much better mvc3 is than that game. "Oh look, commando vs. 3 characters...this will be excitin--zzzzzzzzzzzzzZZzzzz"
  • Stuart HaydenStuart Hayden Outspoken User. Joined: Posts: 11,639
    :rofl:

    I only played it on xbl, but having played enough to be #1 n xbl I can at least say for sure that shina akuma, goenitz, dimitri, red arremer, serious mr karate, violent ken are definitely better.

    Also that doesn't include the other lower tier characters with infinites like tessa, earthquake, etc.
    But XBL rankings don't matter.
    At all.

    C'mon dude, you're better than this.

    It's universally accepted that Zero and Geese are top 2. Don't be an instigator.
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  • orochizoolanderorochizoolander 2LANDER! Joined: Posts: 15,631
    Why though? what makes them better then everyone else? What can geese and zero do vs shin akuma's unblockable infinites? And FYI I've hosted a few SVC tourneys so I have offline experience too.
    P. gorath said: seriously though, it really crystalized how much better mvc3 is than that game. "Oh look, commando vs. 3 characters...this will be excitin--zzzzzzzzzzzzzZZzzzz"
  • TizocTizoc Joined: Posts: 11,406
    I don't think Shin Gouki should count >_>;
    "You have to be a badass if you ride a giant seahorse." -Grant Morrison on why Aquaman is badass
    "Game Over, Snively. ...Thanks for playing." -Dr. Eggman, Sonic Universe #40
    "I'm stinking of animal blood...As of now I'm a vegetarian. And this is Bat-cow." -Damian Wayne
  • PaolochunPaolochun so that I / can say I'm on your side Joined: Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    ^This. I believe the four bosses (Shin Akuma, Shin Karate, Athena, Arremer) shouldn't count.

    Geese and Zero have infinites of their own. Geese gets by with sheer damage and Raging Storm chip damage, and Zero gets by with some of the most annoying zoning known to man.

    I keeping hearing and reading how a good Goenitz is untouchable, by virtue of tornado spam.
    But tbh I've yet to see one that hasn't been rushed down or beaten by GCFS yet.

    I will give you Demitri though, he is high tier for sure.
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