Last Blade 2 Character Guides/Advanced System thread

KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly PervertedJoined: Posts: 2,926
This is just an advanced system FAQ since a lot of people seem to want to know how to play the game at higher levels.

**Tier List

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=2712993&postcount=1

**(Character guides)

Kouryu
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4274763&postcount=299
O. Kaede
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4274626&postcount=298
Kaede
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=2838275&postcount=34
Yuki
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4274382&postcount=297
Moriya
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3269310&postcount=41
Setsuna
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3489097&postcount=72
Akari
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3633644&postcount=171
Juzoh
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3191637&postcount=33
Amano
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3458647&postcount=66
Hibiki
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3039898&postcount=20
Washizuka
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3525222&postcount=90
Kojiroh
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=2813076&postcount=2
Okina
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3031651&postcount=14
Mukuro
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3731412&postcount=200
Lee
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3731416&postcount=201
Zantetsu
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3514233&postcount=80
Kagami
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3166003&postcount=30
Shigen
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3090123&postcount=22

**Videos

Updated Jan 31, 2007
You can find some Japanese match videos on my youtube account:
http://youtube.com/user/Kyokuji

DarkOne Combo Video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=oVMD9oYwSKw
KoFUnion Combo Video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=J0GwbNWqY7c

Also some of Abar's stuff:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=QzdX7p5sZ8k&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Kea1wjzca9I&mode=related&search= (Lower your volume before you watch this one)

UPDATE: New videos:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4390473&postcount=311
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4547159&postcount=329

**A-CHO Ban List

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3528855&postcount=93

General Advanced Game System FAQ:

Notation

:snka: = Light Slash
:snkb: = Hard Slash
:snkc: = Kick
:snkd: = Deflect/Repel/Parry AND Ground/Air Recover

:snkc::snkd: = Throw
:snkb::snkc: = Overhead/Unblockable

Hold :l: or :r: on the ground to roll in either direction while you're getting up.

DM's/SDM's

DM's are always done with :snka::snkb: SDM's are always (with one exception for Shigen) done with :snkb:. SDM's are only available on Power/EX, and most DM's can be part of speed chains.

Motions are always:

:qcb::db::r::snka::snkb:/:snkb:
:qcf::qcf::snka::snkb:/:snkb:
:hcb::hcb::snka::snkb:/:snkb:
:r::hcf::snka::snkb:/:snkb:

Speed combo specials

Initiated with :d::d: :snka:/:snkb: (A hits high, B hits low) on Speed/EX modes. Drains an entire super bar and can't be spammed at low health.
You must block the :snka: version high
You can jump straight up over them close-up if you're not in extended hit stun.


Everyone has 4, but they all share one basic one.

:snka::snkb::snkc: :snka::snkb::snkc: :snka::snkb: :qcf::snkc:
(Don't mash your way through it, time each hit right about when the other one finishes. You can however mash out the last :qcf::snkc: part)

There are only 2 or 3 variations on the other ones, so it's just a matter of memorizing a couple of them.

A good low hitting/launching one that a lot of people share is:

:snka::snkb::snkc: :d::snkc::d::snka::d::snkc::r::snkb::snkc: OR
:snka::snkb::snkc: :d::snkc::d::snkc::r::snkb::snkc: (Less common but it's used for Setsuna's and few others).
You can cancel off the :r::snkb::snkc:

You can pseudo-trap an opponent into trying to block one of these by doing them off a hitting hard slash, but they're only ever guaranteed off a deflect or an overhead stun.
Good players may be able to low-jump :uf: deflect one if you try it off a hard slash.

Downed attacks

:df::snkb: or just :snkc: when the person is on the ground. The :snkc: tends to have less recovery lag. Be careful with these when the person is able to ground recover. Especially with the :df::snkb: because it can have some bad lag on it with certain characters. Some characters can get a ground attack-in after their throw or a sweep.

*Amano's ground attack will also hit standing opponents for some reason.
*You can chain off certain ones. Pretty useless except for whiffing certain moves quickly to get meter.

Overheads

Only available on Speed/EX.

Done with :snkb::snkc:. Some have more range/speed than others. Hibiki, Lee, Kaede, and Zantetsu have fantastic overheads. Amano and Mukuro have the worst. These hit high obviously, but they're more effective than they are in most games.

Overheads will stun you if you're blocking low. Otherwise you get launched.
If you stun with an overhead, dash-in and follow quickly with a combo or throw. If you launch them, dash in to see if they'll try to quick recover, or chain a special after if your character can do it. If they don't recover, you can probably at least get a ground attack :snkc: off or something.

Unblockables

Only available on power. Use these very sparingly. They'll get you murdered at high levels. You can hold these longer by holding the buttons down, but eventually the game makes you let go. This is helpful, because generally everyone has the same unblockable timing so it becomes easy to deflect. If you can extend the charge time, you can mess some people up.

You can be jabbed/thrown out of these so know when to use them, and really later on, I wouldn't use them much at all. Also, most people will either let go right away or hold them down all the way. If they're holding it, jab them quickly.

*Washizuka and Kojiroh can move forward with their's if they charge them, so back the hell up if you can't deflect or jab them out.

Super cancels

Only available on Power/EX. Not all of them are all that useful. Basically lets you cancel certain specials into super moves.

Power :r::snkc: cancels

Exactly what it sounds like.

Power normals

Normals will chip and are safer on block on power. They will not chip kill a near dead opponent however.

Blocking

You can't block ground attacks while you're in the air.
*You can only air block when jumping straight-up or backwards. Anti-airs and projectiles can be air blocked EXCEPT Akari's fireball.

Defending against high-low

Overheads must be blocked high as well as some supers. Keep these things in mind. Remember that most overheads will come out in this order and you can either jab them out of it, block it, or deflect it:

:snka: > :snkb::snkc:
:snka::snka: > :snkb::snkc: (Moriya can't do his overhead off AA).
:snka::snka: :snkb: > :snkb::snkc:

So low block and when you see the pause for the overhead come out, switch to high block, jab or deflect. In a worst case scenario just attack, so even if it hits, you don't get stunned.

Replace :snkb::snkc: with :df::snkc: and you have the same patterns for sweeps. This is why you always want to block combos low if possible. If they do a sweep, you don't have to switch your block. If they do an overhead, they come out slowly anyway so you can just switch.

Hibiki and Zantetsu have quick overheads which look almost the same as their :d::snkb:'s but after a while you get used to them. I haven't gotten hit by either in a while. Just remember that Hibiki and Zantetsu's :d::snkb: hits right away, while the overhead animation is more jerky and hits later. Hibiki's overhead animation is also less crouched.

Low-jumping

Tap :ub: OR :u: OR :uf:.
This game has the touchiest low-jump out of all of SNK's fighters. In KoF, you can tap it pretty hard and still get it out, but you really have to tap it lightly in this for it to work.

Getting around

If you're doing a jump-in, it's almost always better to be dashing or low-jumping while you do it. A straight high jump-in is just way too predictable.
Try to get low jumping down. It's not completely necessary until you get to higher levels, but it's very helpful. It makes it a lot easier to get in, start combos, and zone with jump attacks without getting parried.

Ground/Air recovering

Press :snkd: to ground recover a second after you hit the ground, or :snkd: ONCE in the air after you get launched up. Don't press it twice or you'll parry on the way down and you'll be a sitting duck. You are NOT invincible while ground recovering, so make sure you're a certain distance away when you do it. Or around characters like Kaede/Kojrioh/Lee/Zantetsu/Akari/Moriya who can punish ground recoveries easily, don't do it much at all.
Just know when to do it and when not to. Never do it in the corner.

*You can attack/use air specials on the way down from an air recovery.
*You can ground recover out of a lot of stuff you can't air recover from
*You can't ground recover from stuff that knocks down immediately, like sweeps, or attacks that send you flying like :r::snkc:.

Wake-up/On wake-up

If someone's trying to jump straight up on you for a jump-in while you're on the ground, get up with a jumping (straight-up) :snka: or :snkc: depending on the character.
If someone tries to roll towards you, jump back and greet them with a jump attack. Be careful though, these can get parried. If they start to parry, just jump back, dash-in throw instead.

*Again, you shouldn't deflect when you're getting up, or the other guy is getting up. It's way too risky. This isn't like 3rd Strike where you can safely option select.

On the ground

In case you missed it, hold :l: or :r: on the ground to roll in either direction while you're getting up. Or nothing to stay where you are. Don't get predictable and always roll one way.

Deflecting

First off, you know should know that you can deflect while standing, crouching and in the air. Crouching deflects will generally only work on crouching attacks, while air deflects will work on almost anything. Air deflects are much stricter on timing however.
Last Blade's deflects have a miss animation on them, so be very careful when you use it, also the trail of blue shadows will make it easy to spot one.

Also, pressing D once deflects, pressing :snkd: again after the deflect causes a knock-down. It's usually better to go for a combo after instead of the knock-down. Unless you're deflecting an air-attack. You can't use the knock-down :snkd: if it's an air to air deflect, but you can use an air normal/special immediately after.

There are generally a few things you should deflect:

-When someone is blindly rushing down/pressuring you.
-Really obvious jump-ins
-When someone jumps straight up next to you
-To counter anti-airs/air to air attacks.

You can deflect some supers, but you cannot deflect projectiles.

How to deflect combo strings

Generally, you can only deflect light hits on the first hit. However, you can deflect any hard attack they throw in the string.

Just block the first hit high and switch to low block during the string (Or go from low to high). Then before their hard attack comes out, deflect. For some reason, switching your block position like that allows you to deflect in block stun. Think of it kind of like red parrying in Third Strike.

* You can deflect while still holding back

Know when to deflect

I listed a bunch of situations where it would be a good idea to deflect. Now obviously, the good players know these as well, so they're gonna try to fake you out. Be very careful when you deflect. I can easily jump straight up next to you, have you whiff a deflect, then run in and throw you. Also, it could seem like I'm blindly poking you with A, but then I switch it up at the last minute to a throw when you try to deflect. People who've been playing a long time, generally have a good idea of when someone is going to try and deflect or attack. So try to get deflecting down, but use it conservatively.

Gauge your opponent's patterns, and remember it's very dangerous to be deflecting too much around mashers or new players. Most of them will just mash out random attack strings like A, A *random pause* special. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to deflect what I thought was an incoming hard slash, and ended up eating a random super instead.

Also, you can greatly reduce the lag on a low-jump air deflect by deflecting late in the jump.

*Try not to deflect when you're getting up, or the other guy is getting up. You'll likely just get hit by a jump-in or late combo.

Guard canceling

Uses up all your meter. Allows you to deflect an attack a split second AFTER you've blocked it. This is helpful for avoiding chip damage. Also, it's basically near guaranteed damage when you need it. These are much more helpful on power since your meter fills faster and they do more damage.

The motion for these is :l::db::d: :snkd: while blocking. I find it helps to mash the the whole motion several times when you're learning.

Poking/Normals

Generally, jumping :snka: or :snkc: is going to be your best air to air attack . Also different air attacks have different properties depending on whether the opponent is above you, below you, or right beside you.

Quick list of good air-air attacks for each character

(Amano, Akari and Lee's :snkc: and Moriya, Kagami and Zantetsu's :snka: are annoying. Yuki's air attacks all pretty much suck. :snkb: is OK, but it's slow)
(If you're finding it hard to gauge the angle, just use the "All around" ones)
(If I list more than one attack per character, it usually means multiple attacks will work. Doesn't mean that one isn't better than the others, but it's hard to go in-depth into that in a general FAQ. I highlighted some of the ones I thought were really good, or better than the other ones in most situations)
(Some are better or worse depending on whether you jump or low-jump. All the close/cross-up ones are better with low-jump)

Below you:

:snka: for Mukuro, Akari, Shigen, Moriya, Hibiki, Lee, Zantetsu, Kojiroh, Setsuna
:snkb: for Mukuro, Juzoh, Kagami
:snkc: for Yuki, Mukuro, Lee, Kagami, Kojiroh, Washizuka, Setsuna, Juzoh, Amano, Akari

Beside you:

:snka: for Kaede, Moriya, Kagami, Okina, Shigen, Hibiki, Juzoh, Zantetsu, Kojiroh, Washizuka, Setsuna
:snkb: for Juzoh (From further back)
:snkc: for Lee, Okina, Mukuro, Amano, Akari, Setsuna, Juzoh

Above you:

:snka: for Juzoh, Shigen, Hibiki, Zantetsu, Kagami, Kojiroh, Washizuka, Setsuna
:snkb: for Yuki, Lee, Kaede, Moriya
:snkc: for Amano, Okina, Akari, Lee

Jump-ins:

:snka: for Yuki (Close-up only), Akari, Kaede, Okina, Shigen, Moriya, Hibiki, Lee, Zantetsu, Setsuna, Kojiroh, Washizuka, Kagami
:snkb: for Akari, Setsuna, Mukuro (Close-up only/Crosses up), Kaede, Okina, Moriya, Hibiki (Close-up only/Crosses up), Zantetsu (Close-up only/Crosses up), Kagami, Yuki
:snkc: for Yuki (Close-up only), Amano, Lee, Akari, Kojiroh (Close-up only/Crosses up), Washizuka (Close up only/Crosses up), Setsuna, Mukuro, Kaede (Close-up only/Crosses up), Shigen (Close up only/Crosses up), Moriya, Hibiki, Kagami (Close-up only/Crosses up)

All around:

:snka: for Kaede, Washizuka, Kojiroh, Moriya, Kagami, Hibiki, Shigen, Okina, Zantetsu
:snkb: for Juzoh, Yuki
:snkc: for Lee, Amano, Akari, Mukuro

Last Blade is very heavy on air poking. Especially low-jump air pokes. This is because there is very little lag between getting off the ground and landing after your jump. Also, jump attacks tend to have very high priority. For example, you can keep a lot of people back with just Kagami's jumping A. Also, know when to go high or low. If you try a jump-in and they block the first hit, use a low attack or a dash-in throw after. A standing attack is almost guaranteed to get deflected.

You can use an early jumping attack to make them whiff a deflect, and then just run in and throw or wait a second and start a combo.

Pokes on power, will put the opponent in kind of a semi-guard break animation, which makes it easy to throw like 3 A's out in a row. Also, normals will do chip damage on power.

Be careful with hard slashes. They're very easy to punish/parry.

Dashing

You can stop a dash by pressing back on the joystick. Also, if you dash attack and press back and attack, you'll do a regular standing version of the attack instead of the dashing one. Also, you have to have been dashing a certain span of time for a dash attack to come out. Otherwise you get a normal standing one.

Dash attacks

Rarely should you ever dash attack someone head on. This is just asking to get parried. Instead, use them after you stun with an overhead, or to punish whiffed attacks from afar. If you have to mix it up, go for a dashing sweep (Dash + :d::snka:/:snkb:/:snkc:). Certain characters have guaranteed dash attacks on people who are ground recovering from a knock-down/launch.

Jump-cancelling

You can dash under someone who's in the air and use a low poke to hit them as they land. You do this by quickly jump-canceling the dash just before you hit the button. This only works just as you're crossing over. Any later and you'll end up facing the wrong way.

Throwing

Throws are a huge part of Last Blade 2's game, because of the dash speed/lack of jump recovery. Get dash throwing down pat, and get dash command throwing down especially. They're the easiest way to punish missed deflects, and they make it so you can punish one without even having to wait for the animation to come out.

Basic/Advanced combo strings

General

Keep your specials/DM's inside your combos. Unless you know it's safe to use, or it's a projectile for zoning. If you're not comboing, spend your time using pokes/air pokes/throws or very brief speed chains instead of spamming specials. You'd be surprised how easy it is for the other person to punish a whiffed special.

Think of it like Third Strike where it's very poke centered. Except more on air-poking than ground footsies.


Speed chains

Your most basic attack string is:

:snka::snka: :snkb: > Special move/DM OR :df::snkc: OR :snkb::snkc: OR :r::snkc:/:snkb:

Advanced attack string:

:snka::d::snka::d::snkb: > Special move/DM, etc
Only works for some characters. Kaede, Juzoh and Shigen for example don't have low hitting A's, and Moriya can only chain after his :d::snkb: from a very specific distance, so it's pretty useless for him.

Advanced attack string 2:
(For characters who can't chain or can't chain well off :d::snkb:)

:snka::d::snka: :snkb: > Special move/DM, etc

Most people can use their supers in their speed chains. The exceptions are Amano, Kagami, Kaede/
O. Kaede and Okina.

Many characters can also chain specials off low attacks which is very helpful.
You can start combos with :l::snka: to make them come out a bit faster on certain characters, but you lose too much range for me to recommend it for everyone.

Power links

These are generally quite difficult, and will separate top level players from the upper mid-level ones. Basically a link is an attack that hits immediately after the lag from the first attack goes away rather than cancelling one into another, but the whole thing still counts as a combo.

Hit stun is long as hell in this game, so there are a lot of link combos available.
They're all very reliant on timing. Mashing only works for Mukuro's links and maybe Lee's :d::snkc: links.

Some like Kagami's, are 1-framers

For a basic idea of what I mean. Try to chain Lee's :snkb: from his :d::snkc: (x1-3) and then follow-up with
:qcb::snkc: (x3) OR :hcb::snka: > :qcb::db::r::snka::snkb:. You might get it a few times, but the trick is to be able to do it consistently in the middle of a fight.

An easier one to try is Mukuro's:

:l::snka: (x1-3) :r::snkc: > :dp::snkb:
OR Lee's:
:l::snka: :snkb: :hcb::snka: > :qcb::db::r::snka::snkb:

The main advantage of most of these links is damage. Power mode doesn't have any chain combos so people think you have to rely on pokes. This is true to some extent, but the fact is, these power links often do more damage than most speed chains. Also, one of their biggest advantages is that they let you turn every low poke, into a full combo. Imagine if almost every character in Third Strike had
:d::mk: > SAII, and that's what this is like, only a lot harder.

You need to have low-jumping down to be able to use these effectively. The only way you'll get them off most of the time, is through a low-jump jump-in/cross-up.

Combining power-links with speed chains

Here's where things get a bit interesting. Speed players noticed how you could link lows to highs and started using these links to get into speed chains from their low pokes. An example of this is Lee's
:d::snkc: (x1-3) > :snka::snkb::d::snkc::d::snkc: > Special/DM. This only works for characters with low-high links obviously.

Some people also use them for extra damage. Like :l::snka: (x2) with Kaede and then on the third :l::snka:, go into the rest of his speed chain.

Blocked strings

Deflecting makes attacking a defensive foe a lot more risky, so you have to be careful.

If the first hit of your combo gets blocked, it's usually best to just either stop completely, or end quickly with :df::snkc: OR :snkb::snkc: (slides are not as safe as sweeps unless from max range).

On power, be careful when you go for your links. Don't try them off blocked attacks. If the first hit gets blocked, stop completely or switch to a low attack/dash-in throw or something.

Random mix-ups list

-Dash-jump :uf: whiff air attack, dash-in throw
-Jump straight up, whiff air-attack, dash-in throw
-Low-jump :uf: close up, dash-in throw.
-Low poke, dash-in throw.
-:snka: > :snkb::snkc:
-:snka: > :df::snkc:
-Low-jump :uf: whiff air attack :snkb::snkc:
-Low-jump :uf: whiff air attack :df::snkc:
-Whiff low poke while the opponent is waking-up, and then low-jump cross-up/jump-in/dash-in throw.

Corner cross-over

With certain characters if you knock the opponent up in the corner, dash over the body and then stop when they get up, you'll be in front of them again when they stand which can be very confusing visually. How useful this is, is debatable and varies from character to character.

Miscellaneous crap

-If you're just starting out. Use Speed mode first, and get comfortable with it. The learning curve on power is quite a bit more steep.
-Contrary to popular belief. EX is not overpowered. You take like 150% damage, which doesn't make it worth it on most characters.
-Lee and Zantetsu have air chains. O. Kaede has them with a glitch.
-Zantetsu has a bad bug with :snka::snkc: (together) where he can chain it infinitely in the air. This is banned.
-Speed Setsuna/Power Mukuro are probably the most beginner friendly characters.
"Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
«13456722

Comments

  • moeller61moeller61 Joined: Posts: 95
    Nice, I've been trying to learn this game.
    Thanks BIG BEEF for the Av!

    beat E.Honda, Balrog, Blanka, and we'll talk
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    This will be excellent becuz i've just started using Kaede...
  • Iczer oneIczer one chillin' at Buxi Bar Joined: Posts: 216
    Very good read, and i think this will help a lot of people who just started with the game. :tup:

    Also loved the Kojiroh Guide, there is quite some stuff in there i left untouched so far, especially with P-Kojiroh (Speed is not only better but much more fun, hands down). Kojiroh is very fun to play around with, i think i'll stick with her for a while.
    always coming back
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Made the Kojiroh and Mukuro guides more legible.
    Added a list of air-air attacks to this guide as well.
    Ironically despite writing a guide on her, Kojiroh and Yuki are probably my worst characters. I can still win fine with them, but I'm not confident using them at all.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • Fasty McNastyFasty McNasty YOU ARE SHOCK! Joined: Posts: 725
    I love the Akari inf. Its so easy...
    "You know T. Hawk's stage in ST? My house is like two blocks down from that." - Chief Eddie Drunkcino

    "i see toan writing this with a feather ink quill.... and he sends it with a wax seal by carriage with white horses." - Johnny Blueberry
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Easily banned.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • KhiempossibleKhiempossible NAGEHAME User Joined: Posts: 3,254
    I love the Akari inf. Its so easy...

    fuck that. easy is zantetsu. Easiest infinite i've ever performed.
    "Win when you can; lose when you have to; but always play cheap" - Familyman
  • Dracula_XDracula_X unblockable Joined: Posts: 925
    Try doing Kagami's lol. Nice guides Kyokuji.
    Time lost can never be retrieved.
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    I started up a Last Blade 2 section on the new SRK wiki'.
    Any new guides I make will be posted there.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    can anyone give me any tips on using speed hibiki?

    also, how do you do fatalities?
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    Oh I know Kojiroh very well...speed Hibiki..Kyokuji is well aware of all the other LB2 knowledge on Orochinag i well I'm sure...
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • OlanOlan get me an apple, bitch Joined: Posts: 278
    any power okina advice?, niggas a beast
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Okina

    Power

    :d::snka: > :dp::snka:
    :d::snka: > :hcb::snkc: (only close up)
    :l::snka: (x2), :snka: > :dp::snka:
    (Near corner) :r::snkc: > :r::hcf::snka::snkb:
    :r::snkc: > :qcf::snkb:
    :r::snkc: > :r::hcf::snkb:

    Speed

    :snka:, :d::snka:, :d::snkb: > :dp::snka:
    :snka:, :d::snka:, :d::snkb: > :qcf::snka:
    :snka:, :d::snka:, :d::snkb: > :hcb::snka:
    :snka:, :d::snka:, :d::snkb: > :hcb::snkc: (only close up)
    :snka:, :d::snka:, :snkb: > :qcf::snka:
    :d::snkc: > :dp::snka: (Huge range on this, since the :d::snkc: actually moves you forward)
    :l::snka::snka: > :l::snka: :snka:, :d::snka:, :d::snkb: > :qcf::snka:
    (Corner)(Activate speed combo special :d::d::snka:/:snkb:) (Let it hit)
    :l::snka: :snka: > :l::snka:, :snka:, :snkb: > :qcf::snka:

    EX

    :snkb::snkc: (stuns) > :hcb::snkb: > :r::hcf::snka::snkb:

    Gameplay

    He's actually pretty low on the tier list, but he's one of my favourite characters to use.
    He's a zoning character who can also play tradtional rush-down as long as you're careful.

    If you're smart, you can probably beat less experienced players just by alternating high/low turtles and the far version of his fishing rod. I've gotten a lot of perfects this way. Alternatively, if they're smart enough to get past the turtle zoning (because it's relatively easy to, if you just jump straight up and block), then move in with low-jumps :snka:'s and :snkb:'s. If you land a jump-in, follow up with :d::snka: then :dp::snka: > walk forward :df::snkb: or if you're absolutely sure you're gonna score a hit, :d::snkb: > :dp::snka:. Hit and run, don't always try to rush-down with him. Hop back, tos s a turtle or two and then go back in again. His turtles do inflict a lot of damage if they hit, so even one or two hits here and there can really turn the tide.

    IMPORTANT:
    If the turtle zoning starts to go bad, or they manage to get past one, stop throwing turtles and retreat/re-group. Get to the other side of the screen, and then start throwing them again. If you stay and try to fight them head on, you will lose. Okina excels in keep away and in quick offensive strikes. Clutch fighting is not his strong point.

    His super is only guaranteed off :r::snkc: in the corner, or off :hcb::snkb: after a successful parry. You have to start the :hcb::snkb: like RIGHT AFTER you parry.

    Don't use his turtles in combos, don't use his spinning moves, and don't use his teleports besides the :snka: version. You can dodge the :snkb: and :snkc: versions just by jumping straight up and blocking. Or in the case of the :snkc: version, I can just parry and punish.

    If you land a successful ground-air parry, punish with :d::snkb: or :hcb::snkc: (more on this move in a bit).

    The main thing holding him back is that he can't land his super very easily, but mix-ups between :l::snka:/:snka:/:d::snka: pokes, low jump ins, and :dp::snka:'s can really disorient someone. I used to have him at the bottom of my tier list until I figured him out a little better and I now believe he's about on par with Juzoh.


    One great tactic I've found is that if you're successful with the turtle zoning, people become very frustrated and they'll try to get in using whatever means necessary. This usually means that if they get knocked down, they're gonna roll towards you. Now, Okina's :hcb::snkc: has to be blocked high, but any half decent player is gonna block low on wake-up to be safe. So what this does is it not only scores you a relatively guaranteed hit (you'd be surprised how long it takes people to figure out how to defend against this), but the way it hits, you end up landing right behind them. If they're not close enough for you to hit this move at point blank, run forward a bit after the knockdown and wait for them to roll. The running forward will also give them even more incentive to roll towards you since they'll be thinking "oh shit, he's moving in now's my chance".

    Now, if they quick recover, you can nail them with a guaranteed :d::snkb: > :dp::snka: and if they don't, you still get a free :df::snkb: or :snkc:.

    Also, as the guide says. Jumping A for all purpose, C for air-air for him.

    He has problems with Moriya, Setsuna, Zantetsu and Lee though because of how quickly they can get across the screen. They can punish a blocked turtle very easily.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    uhhhh.... i didn't know where else to ask this, so if it belongs elsewhere, sorry in advance.

    i'm planning on importing Last Blade 2: Final Edition (JP Dreamcast). However, I've noticed that there are two different versions. One has a girl with a fan on the cover, with a beige background. The other version has the US artwork, but slightly altered.

    Which one is the best version to get?
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    They're both pretty bad. They have a problem with the sound being delayed or desynced, and the characters are usually smaller and more pixelated.

    The Japanese one has blood and fatalities.
    The American one has slightly less pixelated sprites, but no blood or fatalities.

    I prefer the Japanese one, but you're pretty much screwed either way. The delayed sound gets pretty distracting.

    In all honesty, I would buy it just to support the developers, but then emulate it, because the arcade MAME version is 5x better than either.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • KhiempossibleKhiempossible NAGEHAME User Joined: Posts: 3,254
    It's only really bad when you do Speed combos, where after you finish you hear all the sounds that were queued up finish off for 2 seconds. Most BnBs combos aren't too bad though.
    "Win when you can; lose when you have to; but always play cheap" - Familyman
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Well, considering you're either poking or doing large combo strings most of the time, I'd say it's pretty detrimental to the gameplay.
    Very rarely are you doing simple 2 hitters and things like that.

    It's especially bad for power links. The timing is tight enough on most already, but not only does this prevent you from using the sound as a queue, it actually throws you off, because it comes out completely off rhythm.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    kyokuji:

    any tips on using speed hibiki?

    also how do u do fatalities?

    TIA
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Fatalities happen randomly and only work if you're playing with blood enabled. Usually if you finish them with a hard slash or a slashing special of some kind, they'll get cut in half. There's 2 types. One where they fall apart in the air and their weapon drops to the ground, and another where they fold and die slowly on the ground.

    As for Speed Hibiki:

    Bread and Butter with her is:
    :snka: :d::snka: :d::snkb: > :snkb::snkc: > Follow-up

    She has three follow-up options:
    :qcf::snka: (:qcf::snkb: actually does less damage and has way more recovery time)
    (Dash-in) :l::snka: > bread and butter if they quick recover (can be repeated x number of times).
    (Dash past them) :snka::snkb:, :l::snkc:, :snkb: > Combo of your choice.
    Basically, you cross them up even though you're facing the wrong way. Very confusing visually, so it's useful this way. It can be avoided by rolling far away enough though.

    Another useful combo is just to finish with :df::snkc: instead of :snkb::snkc:. It's safer on recovery than the :snkb::snkc: is since it's not as easy to deflect. The two together make for some nice mix-ups.

    DM combos:
    :d::snkc: > :qcb::qcf::snka::snkb:
    :d::snkb: > :qcb::qcf::snka::snkb:
    :snka: :d::snka: :d::snkb: > :qcb::qcf::snka::snkb:
    :d::snkc:, :snka: :d::snka: :d::snkb: > :qcb::qcf::snka::snkb:
    :dp::snkc: > :qcb::qcf::snka::snkb:
    :dp::snkc: > :d::d::snka:/:snkb: > Speed Combo #1-4
    :d::d::snka:/:snkb: > :snka: :snkb: :snkc: :d::snkc: :d::snka: :d::snkc: :r::snkb::snkc: > :qcb::qcf::snka::snkb:
    :l::snka:, :d::snkc:, :snka:, :snkb: > :qcb::db::r::snka::snkb:
    :snka: :d::snka: :d::snkb: > :dp::snkb: > :hcf::snkc: (Activate speed combo special :d::d::snka:/:snkb:) follow-up of your choice.

    Don't use her :dp::snkb: move, and don't use her :qcf::snkb: either.
    I don't use her :dp::snkc: much since you can't actually combo into it. The only time it really has any use is if you know the person's gonna try to low block, but even then I prefer :snkb::snkc: on most occasions because it has more follow-up options.

    I haven't had much reason to use her :hcf::snkc: either unless the person is being really predictable with jump-ins. I prefer just to use the regular deflect since I can get way more damage off it, at the cost of slightly pickier deflect timing.

    For ground poking, use :d::snka: and standing :snka:.
    Air poking, use :snka:

    Get low jumping cross-up :snkb: down. Great way to pin down inexperienced opponents, if you just low cross-up slash with her over and over. It's really hard to deflect and has a huge radius as well.

    :snkb: is amazing ground anti-air but can be air parried by better players. It does a lot of damage on power, so it's very useful for punishing predictable air recoveries.

    Try dashing past someone on the ground, then using :snka::snkb: > :l::snkc: > :snkb: > Bread and butter. This should nail them when they get up if they don't see the cross-up coming.

    Just like anyone else, don't use her super randomly. I know it might be tempting because it comes out so quickly, but it's a good way to get yourself combo'd.

    :d::snkb: has absolutely huge range, so use that to your advantage when playing footsies with someone. If you nail it, always follow up with :snkb::snkc:, her DM or :df::snkc: if you think you're too far to follow up on the :snkb::snkc:.

    EDIT:

    Power Hibiki stuff:


    :l::snka: (x2-3), :snka: > :qcf::snka:
    :l::snka: (x2-3), :snka: > :qcb::db::r::snka::snkb:
    :snka: > :r::hcf::snkb:
    :l::snka: :d::snkc: > :qcb::db::r::snka::snkb:
    :snka: > :r::hcf::snkb:
    :d::snkc:, :l::snka:, :snka: > follow-up of your choice
    :d::snkc:, :snka: > follow-up of your choice
    :d::snkc:, :snka: > :r::hcf::snkb:
    :d::snkc: > :qcb::db::r::snka::snkb: (Learning to hit confirm this from a jump-in will help you a lot)
    :r::snkc: > :qcb::db::r::snka::snkb: (Can be useful from punishing missed moves from afar)
    :d::snkc:, :d::snka:
    :l::snka: (x2-3), :snkb: > :qcb::db::r::snka::snkb: ('Extremely' difficult to time properly)
    :l::snka:, :snkb:, :dp::snkb: > :qcb::db::r::snka::snkb: ('Extremely' difficult to time properly)

    She's still good on power, but she loses her nasty mix-up potential, and her godly cancellable
    :d::snkb:.
    She's a much more dangerous poker on power though. You have to be very careful air recovering around her, even if you can parry her :snkb: on the way down. That can easily get baited, and you can end up eating a super.
    Dashing forward and sticking out a :snkb: is surprisingly good for stuffing jump-ins early as well since it comes out pretty fast. You have stagger block to your advantage on power as well, so in case it gets blocked, you're not in too much trouble.

    Her cross-up is godly as well. Easily one of the best in the game along with Mukuro, Zantetsu and Akari's. Never ever try jump cancel dashing under her when she air recovers unless you're planning to deflect after, because that shit can hit you even if it looks like you're out of its hit box.
    Low jump cross-up :snkb: mix-ups are nasty as well, although you can get out by just jumping straight up and then air recovering if you're not confident that you can block long enough to retaliate/get out. Still, you can get some nice damage that way on less experienced players.

    Also, be careful with her :df::snkb:, people can :snka: you when they get up, because the recovery on it sucks (but not as much as Setsuna's) so make sure you don't do it up close.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • The UltimateThe Ultimate AKA Command-Thrower Joined: Posts: 763
    I picked up Last Blade 2 a couple weeks ago, and I must say it's one of the best SNK fighters i've ever played. But, I have a question. What's the general consensus regarding Shigen? I'm making him my main, and he seems like a beast. Also, what are some useful combos for him in speed mode?
    The Ultimate
    Low tier and loving it~!
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Shigen is upper mid' tier.
    Definitely tourney material (although you're likely not gonna find one outside of Japan).

    DM's with multiple parts:

    :hcb::r::snkc: > :hcf::snka: > :hcb::hcb::snka::snkb:
    :hcb::r::snkc: > :hcf::snkb: > :hcb::hcb::snkc: (SDM power mode only)
    :qcf::qcf::snka::snkb: > :hcf::snkb: OR :hcb::hcb::snkb: (Preferred)

    Unique to him

    After, dash in and hit :snkc::snkd:
    He can spam his air throw multiple times and even attack or parry after it.

    Power:

    :snka: > :qcb::snka:
    :snka: > :hcf::snka:
    :snka: > :hcb::r: :snkc: > Follow-up of your choice.
    :l::snka: :l::snka: :snka: > :qcb::snka:
    :l::snka: :l::snka: :snka: > :hcf::snka:
    :l::snka: :l::snka: :d::snkc:
    :snka: > :qcb::snka: > :qcf::qcf::snka::snkb: > :hcb::hcb: :snkb:

    Speed

    :snka: :snka: :snkb: > :qcb::snkc: > :qcb::snkc: then either :qcb::snka: or :qcb::snkc: (corner only) or :dp::snkb: or :hcf::snkc: or (delayed) :hcf::snka: (this one is nearly impossible to jump out of).
    :snka: :snka: :snkb: > :qcf::qcf::snka::snkb: > :hcb::hcb::snka::snkb: (Second part is unblockable but can be jumped)
    :snka: :snka: :snkb: :df::snkc: > :hcf::snkc: (Risky on more advanced players)
    :d::snkc: :qcf::qcf::snka::snkb: > :hcb::hcb::snka::snkb:
    :d::snkc: :qcb::snkc: > :qcb::snkc: > Follow up of your choice
    :d::snkc: :qcb::snka:
    :l::snka: :l::snka: :d::snkc: > :qcb::snkc: > Follow up of your choice
    :snka: :snka: :snkb: > :dp::snka: > (Activate speed combo special :d::d::snka:/:snkb:) follow-up of your choice. Shigen's :dp::snka: renders them unable to roll if you hit them when they're on the ground afterwards for whatever reason.

    EX

    :d::snkc: > :qcb::snka: > :qcf::qcf::snka::snkb: > :hcb::hcb::snkb:

    Gameplay

    Shigen's more of a striker than a grappler on speed, so keep that in mind when you play him. Use jump :snka:/:snkc: to zone and look for openings to land his combos.
    There are lots of ways to land his :hcf::snkb:, but all of them are fairly risky.

    If you play him on power, his grabs are combo-able, and you'll probably spend more time trying to land his throws since the pay off is better.

    You can use :dp::snkb: and :qcb::snka:/:snkb: (dash-in :snkc::snkd:) to punish air recoveries.
    Air throw anytime you get an air-parry and you're close enough.
    The :dp::snkb: can be especially useful since it does a lot of damage on power.

    Whiffing his air throw and then deflecting after can be useful.

    Miscellaneous crap

    -:l::snka: is NOT cancellable on power.
    -You can't combo throws in speed mode.
    -Never use his tackle outside of combos.
    -You can tick throw with :snka:/:l::snka: > :hcf::snka: but it's risky.
    -Avoid his :qcb::snkb:
    -Avoid his :l::snkb: for the most part as tempting as it might be to use it. It can be useful as a defensive mix-up on occasion.
    -His DM counter (:hcf::l: :snka::snkb:) does really really broke ass damage. Unless he's close to perfecting you, you'll probably kill him if you catch him with this. It does not however counter grapples or low attacks, so don't be too reckless with it.
    When Shigen gets into flashing health, this move will cause your opponent will become much more defensive if they know what they're doing.
    -Low :snkb: is cancellable and has huge range, although it's slow and can't be linked off anything.
    -Use dash-in :snkc::snkd: on grounded opponents whenever possible. They CAN ground recover from this, but you're invincible for a split second after. Just be careful.
    -You can break out of his chain throws by mashing the corresponding button that he's using.
    -Use jumping :snka: for air-air, jumping :snkc: for jump-ins. Try to avoid jumping :snkb: for the most part, it's way too slow.
    -Jumping :snkc: can cross-up.
    -Whiff :hcb::r::snkc: for meter after using :snkc: on a downed opponent

    The main thing people do wrong is try and play him like a grappler.
    He's a striker for the most part, although he is forced to use more grappling on power.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • Dracula_XDracula_X unblockable Joined: Posts: 925
    Do you have Aim Kyokuji? I Don't really see you on GW anymore (then again i'm not on a whole hell of a lot with my work schedule either) and i'd like to get some more games going. Been working on my links a lot and i want to see if i've improved at all yet.
    Time lost can never be retrieved.
  • TeaTea Aces Wild Joined: Posts: 375
    Hey Kyokuji! Teach me Last Blade! I'm on Kaillera all the time (name's Kicks). Anywho I'm interested in all the characters, but Sestuna, Hibiki, Moriya, and Amano seem fun. Any stats/recommended type (speed/power) would be great!
    Awesome post by the way... someone else needs to help you out with that barren wiki.

    BTW...
    Since you're here, GGs the other day, Dracula_X. Didn't mean to bail on ya.
    Howdy! I'm Tyler Doak. Check my website: tylerdoak.com, follow me on twitter @CAS_Kicks or email me at tylerdoak42@gmail.com. Check out my newest game Aces Wild!
    I'm an Artist, Game Designer and Competitive Fighting Game Player
  • ThisGuileKillYaThisGuileKillYa SSS++++ tier at exaggeration Joined: Posts: 2,627
    Just tried this game last night and it's awesome! the only character I really learned any moves for or anything is Zantetsu, and he seems AWESOME! if he's not top tier, then this game has some powerfull ass characters.

    Any tips for speed-Zan?

    Which supers should I be using w/ him? Which mixups work well for him etc? Abusable moves? Im gonna play and check for these things myself, of course, but I always love learning the theory from experts on here.

    Oh and callmeanewb refered to an easy infinite for Zan too? <listens closely>
    USF4: Still soul searching. Thus far... Yun, Chun, and Akuma.
    UMvC3 mains: Morrigan Doom Vergil, Magneto Doom Ammy, Morrigan Doom Magneto
    UMvC3 fer funsies: Dante Vergil-or-Dorm Magneto, Wesker Sent Hawkeye, Dante-or-Magneto Doom Vergil, Wolvie Doom-or-Sent Akuma, Nova Doom Ammy, Magneto Doom-or-Sent Dante, Wesker Dorm Magneto, Dante Strange Magneto
    MvC3: Dante Magneto Sentinel
    MvC2: Spiral Cable Sentinel ST: Chunny Bunny. 3S: Akuma, Ryu, Dudley. Vampire: Fish, BBHood
    UMK3: Kabal, H.Smoke, Jax, almost everyone. Chess: 1. c4
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    Oh and callmeanewb refered to an easy infinite for Zan too? <listens closely>

    Most of the infinites abuse some severe glitch in the system...using it on someone will get you kicked out of the game, and I believe they are all banned in tourney play. The glitch he refers to is mashing AC in the air I believe.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • KhiempossibleKhiempossible NAGEHAME User Joined: Posts: 3,254
    it's not quite mashable, but pretty close. AC let's you cancel jumping A into itself. so what happens is you float in the air next to your opponent cancelling j.A into itself. For it to be a true infinite you gotta be pretty good with the timing. Usually, i get about 16 hits before I fuck up or drop too far or get pushed back too much or something and I continue with a ground combo.
    "Win when you can; lose when you have to; but always play cheap" - Familyman
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Sad thing is, I meet people who use that glitch and still can't come close to winning.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • RaveRave Shabasho Joined: Posts: 151
    Heya Kyokuji.

    Any tips for Kagami? I've been playing casually for awhile, but I think I want to step it up a little.
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Kagami

    Air dive stuff

    Use his dive conservatively. It has a ton of recovery lag on it. Best to low-jump with it if you're going to use it. If you're good, you can dash under someone who jumps straight up and then low-jump dive immediately to get them from behind. This is risky though, and it would require you to be able to read your opponent fairly well. It's great for punishing attempted parries, anti-airs and air recoveries though.

    -You can link :hcb::snka: off his air dive, just delay the motion a bit. It's a good way to save your ass if it gets blocked, but again use the dive conservatively if at all.
    -:hcb::snka: is combo-able, :hcb::snkb: is not.
    -The other somewhat safe option is to follow up with :qcf::snka: and then quickly back off.
    -You can combo his :hcf::snka::snkb: off his dive, but the timing is very strict. Can also be another good way to follow-up a blocked dive.
    -Don't be one of those idiots who constantly air dives and follows up with :dp::snka:.

    Power

    :l::snka: > :dp::snka:/:snkb: > :hcf::snka::snkb:
    :d::snkc: (x2-3), :l::snka::snkc: > :dp::snka:/:snkb: > :hcf::snka::snkb:
    (In the air) :d::snkc: > :hcf::snkb:
    (In the air) :d::snkc: > :hcb::snka:
    (In the air) :d::snkc: > :dp::snka:/:snkb: > :hcf::snka:

    Speed

    :l::snka:, :d::snka:, :d::snkb: > :snkb::snkc: (Dash-in) (Punish ground recovery with :l::snka: > same combo or if they don't recover, :snkc: > Whiff :hcb::snka: for meter)
    :l::snka:, :d::snka:, :d::snkb: > :snkb::snkc: > (Dash for a split second) :dp::snka:
    :d::snkc: (x2-3), :l::snka:, :db::snka:, :d::snkb: > :snkb::snkc: (Dash-in) (Etc.)
    :d::snkc: > :dp::snka:
    (In the air) :d::snkc: > :hcf::snka::snkb: (Glitch)
    (Activate speed combo special) :d::d::snka:/:snkb: > :snka: :snkb: :snkc: :d::snkc: :d::snka: :d::snkc: :r::snkb::snkc: > dash-in > Low-jump :uf: > :d::snkc: > :dp::snka:
    Corner (Activate speed combo special :d::d::snka:/:snkb:) >
    :snka: :snkb: :snkc: :d::snkc: :d::snka: :d::snkc: :r::snkb::snkc: > (slightly delayed) Low-jump :ub: > :d::snkc: >
    :qcf::snkb: > :dp::snka:

    EX

    :l::snka:, :d::snka:, :d::snkb: > :dp::snkb: > :hcf::snka::snkb:
    :d::snkc: > :dp::snkb: > :hcf::snka::snkb:
    :d::snkc: (x2-3) > :dp::snkb: > :hcf::snka::snkb:
    (Activate speed combo special) :d::d::snka:/:snkb: > :snka: :snkb: :snkc: :d::snkc: :d::snka: :d::snkc: :r::snkb::snkc: > dash-in > Low-jump :uf: > :d::snkc: > :dp::snka:/:snkb: > :hcf::snka::snkb:
    (Corner)(Activate speed combo special :d::d::snka:/:snkb:) > :snka: :snkb: :snkc: :d::snkc: :d::snka: :d::snkc:
    :r::snkb::snkc: > (slightly delayed) Low-jump :ub: > :d::snkc: > :qcf::snkb: > :dp::snka: > :hcf::snka::snkb:

    Gameplay

    Kagami is best in Power, but he's fine in any mode really.

    Kagami is the one of the best pure poking characters in the game. His dash is exceedingly fast which allows him to get in and out quickly and his :d::snkc: is one of the fastest recovering long range lows in the game. His jump :snka: is one of the best air-air pokes in the game as well. Extremely quick, angled slightly upwards and has wayyy too much priority. His :snkc: can cross-up, but you gotta do it kind of early, and it's fairly unreliable.

    Get dash into his command throw down, it'll help out a lot. Low dives can be useful, but they're risky.
    Use :dp::snka:/:dp::snkb: > :hcf::snka::snkb: or dives/DM's/SDM's to punish air recoveries.
    Dash-in after any overhead launch or :dp::snka: hit to punish ground ones.
    Punish ground recoveries on power and EX with:

    (Dash-in) :l::snka: > :dp::snkb: > :hcf::snka::snkb:

    He can jump cancel dash under people air recovering just like everyone else, but he can jump cancel into a low dive as well and then cancel it into something else if need be.

    He's best in power if you can hit the link consistently, but given it's difficulty, you might opt to use EX instead. Being able to link into his DM from such a versatile poke adds 'a lot' to his game, especially since you can hit confirm it off multiple linked ones. Plus you still get access to his SDM for desperate situations.
    Only problem is that meter doesn't build nearly as fast in EX.

    In speed, he's still a fantastic poker, and you don't have to worry about getting hit the way you do in EX.

    Plus, he's already good at punishing recoveries, but on EX and power he can cancel his :dp::snka: into his DM, which makes it suicidal to try and recover at all around him. Seriously, try it. You'll get fucked in the ass.

    Low-jump SDM can be useful as a desperation attack since it comes out almost instantly, but if you miss, you're likely toast.

    Miscellaneous crap

    -He steps back a bit on his unblockable, and the coverage is more vertical than most, so it's more useful than some of the other ones, but like all power unblockables, use them very very sparingly if at all.
    -His SDM is only combo-able off his dive. It's one of the few supers that can see some use outside of a combo.
    -:r::snkb: is a great long range poke.
    -Avoid using his :qcb::snkc:, it's crap
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • RaveRave Shabasho Joined: Posts: 151
    Goddamn :wow:

    Thanks a lot! I'll see you online for sure.
  • tianyuantianyuan I will be back... Joined: Posts: 574
    any advice for playing power Juzoh? I used to play the NGPC version a lot, but seldomly play this game in the arcade. For some weird reason I get addict to Juzoh after I picked him in the arcade not long ago. Everytime I play LB2, Juzoh will become the only character I use. The problem is I have no idea about his match up, I pretty much beat down every beginner I faced and have no problem to fight the experienced players. Of course I know there are many pros out there I just havent meet yet, therefore I want to ask if there are anything I have to watch out for using Juzoh, and any tricks to improve his gameplay?

    Also anyone lives in NYC? Last Blade 2 is in Chinatown Fair, but no one touch that game...
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Juzoh

    Stuff unique to him

    Dash over fallen opponents to do minor damage.

    Juzoh is actually relatively low tier, because he is heavily reliant on being able to land his grapples, but tiers in LB2 are pretty subjective anyway (besides Yuki who struggles).

    You'll want to play him in power to take full advantage of the damage on his jumping :snkb:, and to make sure that when you do land a command throw, your opponent knows about it.

    Unlike most other characters, Juzoh doesn't have much in the way of combos, nor does he have any really effective power links, instead, you must learn how to zone with his jumping :snkb: and standing :snkb: and you must have a good mix-up game in order to be able to land his
    :hcb::snkb: and :hcb::snka:.
    So, he's basically the only 'true' grappler in the game. Shigen is more of a striker mix and he's not quite as mobile.

    After landing a :hcb::snkb:, your options are:

    :hcb::snka: (Grab them again and slam them into the ground)
    >:qcf::snka: (Smack them around with the bat) > :hcb::hcb::snka::snkb: >:qcf::snkb: (If you have meter) (Do the last part just after the second stomp) (Though it's a two part super, you don't need to be at low life to use it)
    >:qcf::snkb: (Stomp on them with the bat) (This does more damage than the :qcf::snka: variant on its own, but don't get predictable by using the same one all the time)
    >Do nothing (He smashes them away) (Can't mash out of this one)

    :qcf::snkb: (You get more damage for hitting them later. You'll know because it'll set them on fire)
    >:qcf::snkc: > :u::snkb:

    :qcf::snka::snkb: (If you have meter) (You get more damage for hitting them later. You'll know because it'll set them on fire))

    You can escape from his :hcb::snka: follow-ups by mashing the appropriate button.
    For example, if the person's following up with :qcf::snka:, you mash A.
    You can't mash out of the DM follow-ups, or his striking ones.

    On power, his only real combos are:

    :d::snkc: :d::snkc: :d::snkc:
    :uf::snkb:/:snkc: > :r::snkc: > :qcf::snkc: > :hcb::snka: > Follow-up of your choice
    :uf::snkb:/:snkc: > :r::snkc: > :qcf::snkc: > :dp::snkb:
    (Corner only) (Has to be right to the edge) :uf::snkb:/:snkc: > :r::snkc: > :hcb::snka: > Follow-up of your choice
    (Corner only) :uf::snkb:/:snkc: > :r::snkc: > (Charge) :r::l::snkc:
    (Corner only) :uf::snkb:/:snkc: > :r::snkc: > :hcb::snkc:
    :df::snkc: > :dp::snka:/:snkb:

    Follow-ups for :qcf::snkc: (While you do have autoguard in this, you still take damage, and you can be thrown out of it)
    >:dp::snka:/:snkb:
    >:snkd:/:d::snkd:
    >:hcb::snka:
    >:qcf::qcf::snka::snkb:
    >:r::l::snkc:
    >:qcf::snka::snkb:
    >:hcb::snkc:

    Of these, the only ones that are ever really useful are :dp::snkb: :hcb::snka: and :snkd:/:d::snkd:

    Your focus should not be on landing a throw from a combo though, but to find ways to land it on its own. You need to have a good short dash/dash throw game, and you need to be able to read your opponent well, since all they have to do is jump straight up to avoid it (but that's where the :hcb::snka: version comes in handy).

    Up close, you need to mix things up with his :d::snkc:, low-jump air normals and his command throw.
    His :r::snkb: is fantastic for zoning as long as you're careful with it. You can easily catch someone who was trying to dash-in, and it's great for punishing whiffed attacks/combos from a distance.

    Be aware that his :hcb::snka: has very poor priority and a lot of air attacks (especially ones jumping forward) will easily snuff it even if it looks like you should've got them (Reminds me a lot of Hugo's mediocre anti-air throw). However if they're jumping straight up and you're right under them, you have a lot better chance of landing it.

    Juzoh has some bad match-ups against people with fast ground/air pokes like Zantetsu and Lee. Moriya can also give him some trouble with his constant teleporting (assuming they know the glitch). An Okina who's good at turtle zoning can be very irritating as well, although if you know Juzoh's air game well enough it should be a pretty even match-up.

    Speed Juzoh's combos are:

    :snka: :snkb: > :qcf::snka:
    :snka: :snka: > :r::l::snkc: > :qcf::snkc: > :qcf::snkc: > *:qcf::snkc: (Unblockable but doesn't combo and can be deflected/jumped over)
    :snka: > :df::snkc: > :dp::snkb: (His only real mix-up combo, besides the universal :snka: > :snkb::snkc: style ones)
    :d::snkc: (x3) > :r::l::snkc::qcf::snkc::qcf::snkc:

    With speed Juzoh, you don't have to rely as much on his command throw since he can now chain combo like everyone else, but the problem is, the damage on his combos is pretty average, and he doesn't have a lot of variation to them, so all he really ends up being is a weaker version of the other characters on speed. You can still use his command throw and all that, but the damage is lessened by quite a bit.
    As such, I feel it's better to make up for his weaknesses by playing him like a grappler/zoner on power.

    That being said, his :snkb::snkc: overhead on speed does give him some nice opportunities for landing his :hcb::snkb:, so you shouldn't rule out speed Juzoh altogether, and he does gain quite a few more mix-up options on speed.

    -:qcf::snkc: should be used very very sparingly. I only use it as a follow-up to one of the command throws to try and cross someone up as they're getting up, but I rarely use it on more experienced players since it's easy for them to block either way.
    -His :dp::snka:/:snkb: will hit people on the ground but only if he's close, and only in certain situations since both are quite slow. So it's better just to use :u::snkb: most of the time instead.
    -:dp::snkb: makes a good early anti-air since it has nice priority on it, but it's quite slow so you'd have to have to seen a jump/jump-in coming already.
    -His :hcb::snkc: is completely useless, stay away from it
    -His :qcf::snkb: is also fairly poor outside of some occasional use for zoning.
    -I would only use his :qcf::snka: as a follow-up if you happen to catch someone with a standing :snkb: somehow.
    -His :r::l::snkc: unblockable can be somewhat useful on more inexperienced players, but there's not much reason to use it instead of his overhead, and better players will likely just jump/throw/punish.
    -You can hit his :hcb::snka: off a successful ground-air parry, but you gotta do it fast and they have to be relatively high in the air.
    -:d::snkb: may look like a good anti-air but it's not, don't use it much.
    -:snkb: can work as an anti-air, but it doesn't work against a lot of air normals, and it's highly dependant on what angle they're coming from.
    -:uf::snka: is your best late air-air. You can jump-in with it if you think they're gonna jump straight up at the last second.
    -:uf::snkc: is also alright as a jump-in/air-air.
    -:uf::snkb: is your all purpose air normal. Great range, damage and priority. If you can low-jump reliably, this poke becomes quite godly.
    -His unblockable has some nice horizontal range on it, but like all of them it's slow and predictable so be careful with it.
    -Like you would figure for a grappler in a game with a parry system, being able to deflect well adds a ton to your game with Juzoh, since it's basically a free command throw for you.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • tianyuantianyuan I will be back... Joined: Posts: 574
    Thanks, Kyokuji. I will try them. Oh, i want to ask the 63214A > 236A > 236236A+B timing. I never get it to work. Do I have to input the command as soon as possible or with timing like Shingen's combo throw?
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    You start the DM a second or two after you land the :qcf::snka:. It has to be while he's smacking the guy around, not before or after.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • tianyuantianyuan I will be back... Joined: Posts: 574
    Yeah it works, but the command is 6321463214A+B.
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Ah, my mistake. I'd just woken up when I wrote that.
    Yeah, it's :hcb::hcb::snka::snkb:.

    I'll fix it on the mini-FAQ thing.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    I put up some a-cho/VIP LB2 tourney match videos on youtube.
    Search "Kyokuji" to find all my LB videos.
    Some of the a-cho matches are on the second page (Almost the entire first page is filled with random scrub crap).
    Check out some of MaestroAbar's videos as well. They're not bad.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Kyokuji, any tips for using speed moriya? Thanks
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Yeah, I'll write up a guide for him when I get the energy.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    How you play Moriya depends on whether you're using the teleport glitch.
    I would highly recommend that you learn how to play him without it first. Otherwise all you'll have is mindless rush-down/keep-away, and you'll get wrecked by better players.

    He's best on speed mode.
    He has tons of mix-up options and damaging combos with it, and he cancel in and out of his 'port easily.
    This guide's going to be a little harder to write, because a lot of his advanced stuff revolves around using his teleport properly, and his combos are probably the most complex in the game (Lee and Zantetsu taking 2nd and 3rd place respectively).
    That being said, if you're not using the glitch, he's a decent starting character.

    Teleport glitch

    Right after the teleport, quickly hit :snka::snkc: together.
    If you do it correctly, he won't say anything, and he'll have 0 recovery on the teleport (He'll be able to move right away).
    This only works for the :snka: and :snkb: variations.

    :l::db::d: :snka: goes to the far end of the screen behind you.
    :l::db::d: :snkb: goes right to the opponent.
    :l::db::d: :snkc: goes directly behind the opponent.

    Stuff unique to him

    :df::snka: (Can't cancel into this from :snkb:)
    You can shorten the recovery on his :qcb: slashes by tapping the buttons multiple times, and cancel the move completely by pressing :snkd:

    Power

    :l::snka: :l::snka: > :qcb::snkb:/:qcb::snkc:
    :l::snka: :l::snka: > :dp::snka:/:snkb:
    :uf::snka:/:snkb:/:snkc: > :l::snkb: > :qcf::snka: > :r::hcf::snka::snkb:
    :uf::snka:/:snkb:/:snkc: > :l::snkb: > :r::hcf::snkb:
    :d::snkc: :l::snka::snkc: :l::snka: > :qcb::snkb:/:qcb::snkc:
    :uf::snka:/:snkb:/:snkc: > :r::snkc: > :r::hcf::snkb:
    :uf::snka:/:snkb:/:snkc: > :r::snkc: > :qcb::snka:/:snkb: (Hold, late release)
    :uf::snka:/:snkb:/:snkc: > :r::snkc: > Dash-in :snka: > Mix-up
    (Corner only) :uf::snka:/:snkb:/:snkc: > :r::snkc: > :r::hcf::snka::snkb:
    (Corner only) :uf::snka:/:snkb:/:snkc: > :snkb: > :qcf::snka: > :qcf::snka: > (Late) :r::hcf::snka::snkb:)
    (Corner only) :uf::snka:/:snkb:/:snkc: > :snkb: > :qcf::snka: > :qcf::snka: > (Somewhat early) :qcb::snka: > :dp::snka:

    Edit:

    :l::snka:, :l::snka: > :r::hcf::snka::snkb:
    :d::snkc: :l::snka:, :l::snka: > :r::hcf::snka::snkb:
    :uf::snka:/:snkb:/:snkc: > :snka: > :r::hcf::snka::snkb:
    :uf::snka:/:snkb:/:snkc: > :l::snkb: > :l::db::d::snkb: (:snka::snkc:) > :l::snka: > :r::hcf::snka::snkb:
    :uf::snka:/:snkb:/:snkc: > :l::snkb: > :qcf::snka:, :qcb::snka: (:snkd:) > :l::snka: > :r::hcf::snka::snkb:
    :uf::snka:/:snkb:/:snkc: > :l::snkb: > :qcf::snka:, :qcf::snka: > :qcb::snka:
    This is your primary set-up for teleport punishing in power mode. Just 'port in after they get launched and punish if they recover. You can't do much besides :l::snka: > :qcb::snkb: or something though.

    Speed

    You cannot cancel into his :snkb::snkc: from :snka::d::snka: or :snka::snka:. This because he already has a special overhead and him having 2 overheads to combo into would make things extremely gay.

    :l::snka: :snka: :d::snka: > :snkb: > :qcf::snka: > :qcf::snka: > :dp::snka: > :dp::snkb:
    (I prefer to just skip the first :l::snka: part for the added range/simplicity).
    (You can technically link another :l::snka: at the beginning, but it's not really worth it unless you're showing off or something).

    *:l::snka: :snka: :d::snka: > :df::snkc: > :qcb::snkc::snkc: (Fail-safe in case the :df::snkc: gets blocked. Mashing :snkc: (in a controlled fashion) eliminates some of the recovery from the special)
    *:l::snka: :snka: :d::snka: > :df::snka: > :dp::snka: > :dp::snkb:
    (Mix it up with these two)

    :d::snka: > :dp::snka:
    :d::snka: > :qcb::snkc::snkc:
    :d::snkc: > :dp::snka:
    :d::snkc: > :qcb::snkc::snkc:
    :l::snka: :snka: :d::snka: :snkb: > :snkb::snkc: > :qcb::snkb:
    :d::snkc: > :l::snka::snkc: :snka: :snka: :d::snka: :snkb: > :snkb::snkc: > :qcb::snkb:
    OR
    > :qcf::snka: > :qcf::snka: > :dp::snka: > :dp::snkb: after the first :snkb:

    (Activate speed combo :d::d::snka:/:snkb:)
    :snka: :snkb: :snkc: :d::snkc: :d::snka: :d::snkc: > :r::snkb::snkc: > (Quickly cancel into) :l::db::d: :snkc: > :dp::snka: > :dp::snkb:
    (Corner only) (Activate speed combo :d::d::snka:/:snkb:)
    :snka: :snkb: :snkc: :d::snkc: :d::snka: :d::snkc: > :r::snkb::snkc: > (Somewhat early) :qcb::snka: > (Late) :dp::snka: > :dp::snkb:

    EX

    :l::snka: :snka: :d::snka: > :snkb: > :qcf::snka: > :r::hcf::snka::snkb:
    :l::snka: :snka: :d::snka: > :snkb: > :r::hcf::snkb:

    Tactics

    Teleport Glitch Tactics 1

    Ok, here's where things get complicated. If you're using the teleport glitch, you're going to want to be using his :snkc: to hit downed opponents most of the time, not his :df::snkb:. This is because you can cancel into his teleport from it.
    After any successful knockdown, you'll want to run in, hit them with :snkc:, then cancel into either the :snka: or :snkb: teleports to get the mind-games going.

    One of my favourites is:

    (Knockdown) > Dash-in > :snkc: > (Wait half a second for them to try something)
    :l::db::d: :snkb: (:snka::snkc:) > :l::db::d: :snka: (:snka::snkc:) > :l::db::d: :snkb: (:snka::snkc:) > Then either:
    Dash-in throw
    Jump straight up > Dash-in throw
    One of the speed combos listed above
    Jump-in, then continue into one of the speed combos listed above
    Block if you think they're going to try and DP/poke you.

    You can create any number of variations on this.

    Teleport Glitch Tactics 2

    Another thing you can do with the teleport that adds to his broken-ness is using it as a way to punish ground recoveries. The same principle that applies to the knockdowns applies here, only this time, after a knockdown, when you teleport in to follow-up after the :l::db::d: :snkb: (:snka::snkc:), quickly dash-in and hit :l::snka: and then follow-up into the :snka: :d::snka: :snkb: > :snkb::snkc: > :qcb::snkb: combo. From there, you can either dash-in again to punish another recovery, or if he doesn't, use :snkc: and start the mind-games again. You have to guess beforehand whether they're going to recover or not though.
    This will only work with :l::snka:.
    :snka: isn't fast enough to hit.

    Teleport Glitch Tactics 3

    One last nasty thing about it is that it essentially allows you to end all your combos safely (if you don't get red parried or guard cancelled anyway).
    Any normal can be cancelled with the :l::db::d::snka:/:snkb: (:snka::snkc:) teleport essentially giving you more mix-up options as well as a safe ender/getaway.

    A favourite is:
    (Blocked) :l::snka: :snka: :d::snka: > :df::snkc: > :l::db::d::snkb: (:snka::snkc:) > Dash-in throw.
    (If they're in the corner, make sure you throw them back "into" the corner).

    This is why I recommend you learn him without the glitch first. It'll take a long time before you can glitch the teleport consistently and quickly enough to make it look like you're a living blur, and it'll distract you from playing properly at first. Plus, he's the only character who has this, so if you become dependant on it, it'll impact your performance with the other characters.
    Get the basics down before you even start worrying about this.

    Gameplay

    If you decide to play him on power. Keep in mind that he loses a lot of his combo ability, but he's still a strong hit and run character because of his teleport. If you can get his :d::snkc:, :l::snka: link down consistently, it'll help you out a lot. Also, remember that you can greatly reduce the recovery on those :qcb: slashes, so make sure to do this if you're not great at hit confirming. This also means that messing up the :d::snkc: link is a little more forgiving, because you're not necessarily a sitting duck if it's mis-timed and blocked.
    Learn to hit confirm his standing :snka: into his DM from a jump-in as well. It's the only real comeback tool he has. If you can combo into it consistently from his :d::snkc: link, then you might have something going with him on power, but you're totally fucked if it misses.

    Otherwise, he has some of the best safe rush-down in the game, and he can play safe hit and run if he decides he needs to. Just don't get too predictable with the teleports. They're godly, but they don't make you invincible.

    Miscellaneous crap

    -:uf::snka: and :d::snka: are good pokes.
    -:uf::snkc: can cross-up.
    -:d::snkc: is useful for mix-ups, especially since you can combo out of it (even if it's difficult to do so).
    -He has an infinite with :l::snka::snka::d::snka: > :snkb: > :l::db::d::snkb: (:snka::snkc:) > :l::snka::snka::d::snka: > :snkb: > (Repeat), but it's banned as you might expect. Some tourneys will allow one repetition.
    -Use :qcb::snka: or :dp::snka: to punish people who constantly air recover.
    -:d::snkb: is a pain in the ass to cancel off of. I try to stay away from it.
    -:l::snkb: will give you a sort of vertical slash.
    -His :r::snkb: is a great long range poke if you use it conservatively.
    -As with a lot of other characters, you can dash under someone who's in the air and jump-cancel into
    :d::snkc: and then follow-up with a combo/mix-up. This is risky so be careful.
    -The teleport glitch is allowed in most tournaments.

    (I added this guide to the wiki as well)
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
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