Nash Q&A Thread

jchensorjchensor Salty ChenJoined: Posts: 1,934 admin
edited March 2016 in Nash
If you’re looking for an answer to a specific question about Nash, this is the place to ask. And if you know a lot about Nash, swing by here from time to time to help answer the questions!

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Post edited by jchensor on
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"We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

"Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

(AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
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Comments

  • xJayxxJayx FlowChart <3 Joined: Posts: 70
    Is there any frame data yet?
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  • oms3oms3 kayloud Joined: Posts: 707
    Here's frame data I took from Prima guide.

    Some things are wrong though, like Moonsault Slash should be +4 on hit, not +3, so I don't know what else could be wrong.
  • ShadyKShadyK Joined: Posts: 342
    oms3 wrote: »
    Here's frame data I took from Prima guide.

    Some things are wrong though, like Moonsault Slash should be +4 on hit, not +3, so I don't know what else could be wrong.

    Sorry about that mistake. This change was stealthed in last minute (versus our final version), and yes, Nash is awful without comboable Moonsault Slash! I feel really bad about this particular error in the book :(

    Hope you like the rest of the content, though.
  • STKSTK In...infinite Imagination! Joined: Posts: 322
    ShadyK wrote: »
    oms3 wrote: »
    Here's frame data I took from Prima guide.

    Some things are wrong though, like Moonsault Slash should be +4 on hit, not +3, so I don't know what else could be wrong.

    Sorry about that mistake. This change was stealthed in last minute (versus our final version), and yes, Nash is awful without comboable Moonsault Slash! I feel really bad about this particular error in the book :(

    Hope you like the rest of the content, though.

    is there a full doc with all the frame data?
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  • BueyBuey Joined: Posts: 2
    edited February 2016
    Anyone have a handy guide for Nash's optimal antiair options for each angle? Been using st. HK too much, and it trades too often for my liking.

    [edit] Nm, there is discussion on this topic right now in the main Nash thread http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/195731/nash-general-thread-charlie-nash-finally-revealed/p28
  • NovastormNovastorm Joined: Posts: 462
    edited February 2016
    ShadyK wrote: »
    Sorry about that mistake.

    Just wondering about something, don't know if it is a mistake but why is startup for the TC st.LP>st.MP 6 whereas normal st.LP is at 4?
    I feel like there's more than 2 frames between me hitting LP and MP at times, so how would the game distinguish between it just being a normal LP or the start of a TC?

    Also it's been a while since i last looked at frame data, is it correct that when a move is +5, you can then link another move that has a startup of 6, since the 6th startup frame is actually the 1st active frame? Making it a 1 fame link?

    For example EX Moonsault Slash which is listed as leaving you at +5 and i can link the st.LP>st.MP TC, which has startup listed as 6, after it.

    Thanks for any info, i am so rusty it's not even funny.

  • ZacharaZachara Joined: Posts: 884
    The frame data is referring to the MP in the LP>MP target combo.
    So st.LP still starts up in 4 frames but the follow up to it (The MP) has a 6 frame start up.
    Usually that's what is being referred to in the frame data regarding Target Combo's because the first button (The LP) is a normal st.LP, it's the follow up which is different.

    As far as I'm aware - No. If a move is +5 on hit, you're able to hit anything that has up to 5 frames of start up. Any more than 5 and it's not going to connect.
  • UnlimitedUnlimited V has come to. Joined: Posts: 196
    Besides the juggle properties on his V-skill being changed to remove the corner HK SS, Vskill reset, have there been any changes made to his vskill on release? I've heard different things such as increased startup, more -frames on block, or fewer active frames, but I'm not exactly sure what to believe from people.

    Is it still viable as a poke like it was in the beta? I've managed to anti air some poorly spaced jumps with it but is it still viable for anything other than absorbing fireballs?

    It seems to still have a decent vertical hitbox as I have hit people directly above Nash's forearm.
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  • PrinceVegetaPrinceVegeta Joined: Posts: 15
    edited February 2016
    What does it mean when in a combo they put: 6 V. Trigger, or 6 HP? Also, I saw this on a combo: C.lk, c.lp ~ EX.SB x2; I can't even link c.LP into the first EX SB. Am I doing something wrong, or is that not working on the current version of the game?

    EDIT: I didn't get a notification for some reason, that's why I'm answering late. Thanks for your answer, @Science
    Post edited by PrinceVegeta on
  • ScienceScience Joined: Posts: 26
    What does it mean when in a combo they put: 6 V. Trigger, or 6 HP? Also, I saw this on a combo: C.lk, c.lp ~ EX.SB x2; I can't even link c.LP into the first EX SB. Am I doing something wrong, or is that not working on the current version of the game?

    Prince,

    I believe "6" is used as a means to convey the position of the joystick:

    7 8 9
    4 5 6
    1 2 3

    This would make "6" the forward, or "-->", position of the joystick. Thus, " 5" stands for the neutral (or 'home' position) and all numbers around it represent the eight possible directions to push the stick.
    "For Science."
  • LiquidShuLiquidShu Dirty PvP Lover Joined: Posts: 20
    Science wrote: »
    What does it mean when in a combo they put: 6 V. Trigger, or 6 HP? Also, I saw this on a combo: C.lk, c.lp ~ EX.SB x2; I can't even link c.LP into the first EX SB. Am I doing something wrong, or is that not working on the current version of the game?

    Prince,

    I believe "6" is used as a means to convey the position of the joystick:

    7 8 9
    4 5 6
    1 2 3

    This would make "6" the forward, or "-->", position of the joystick. Thus, " 5" stands for the neutral (or 'home' position) and all numbers around it represent the eight possible directions to push the stick.

    I would agree. Mostly see this in anime fighters and cr., st., etc. in SF.

  • expandingmanexpandingman Joined: Posts: 105
    What is the use for EX sonic scythe? It only does a speck more damage and stun than fierce. I see it used as a combo finisher, and it seems like a waste of bar.
  • dtgodmage22dtgodmage22 Joined: Posts: 346
    i'm having trouble with nashs cross up 4b in the guide

    its cross up mk into crouching medium punch > standing medium punch > hp > lk

    i can't get lk to come out i cant get the rest
  • PrinceVegetaPrinceVegeta Joined: Posts: 15
    i'm having trouble with nashs cross up 4b in the guide

    its cross up mk into crouching medium punch > standing medium punch > hp > lk

    i can't get lk to come out i cant get the rest


    Are you sure it isn't s.MP > s.LK > s.HP, which is one of his target combos? It might be a typographical error.
  • Heavy_MentalHeavy_Mental Fueled by caffeine and salt. Joined: Posts: 1,236
    Combos into Wind Shear (the st.MP xx st.LK xx st.HP target combo) aren't ever worth it. You get much better damage, corner carry, and oki by just doing st.MP xx HK Sonic Scythe.

    “In the long run men hit only what they aim for. Therefore though they should fail immediately, they had better aim at something high." - Henry David Thoreau
  • ZacharaZachara Joined: Posts: 884
    Does the safe jump you were talking about not work since release? I know it's not fantastic but I use it from time to time.
    Granted you have to have know the player is a nut and will shoryu on wake up but I think it's a good option to have. Most likely better in a Bo3/5 rather than the online Bo1.
  • Heavy_MentalHeavy_Mental Fueled by caffeine and salt. Joined: Posts: 1,236
    I didn't bother to test it out, but unless they changed Nash's KD advantage after Wind Shear, it should still work.
    “In the long run men hit only what they aim for. Therefore though they should fail immediately, they had better aim at something high." - Henry David Thoreau
  • chrisofrays{)chrisofrays{) Yoga symphony Joined: Posts: 427
    Whats your gameplan with nash? Im struggling with him. Am i meant to play him like guile? It feels like he has trex arms.
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  • Krazysh0tKrazysh0t Punch to the face! Joined: Posts: 285
    Use booms to cover your approach. Maintain a bit of range to poke with your normals, then pick your battles for when it is time to open your opponent up. But as far as playing like Guile, I don't think it's the same (at least not sf4 Guile). Though it's tough to say for sure since we haven't seen how Guile is supposed to play in this game yet.
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  • TheOne_TruestyleTheOne_Truestyle AKA Tots. Joined: Posts: 15
    How do hoy Cancel into critical art with nash im trying to do j.mk cr.mpx2 Xx mk.sónic sythe critical art but i never get it to come out or its late or is it not possible to Cancel ss into ca help me pleez
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  • andeRK83andeRK83 tiGeR! Joined: Posts: 389
    How do hoy Cancel into critical art with nash im trying to do j.mk cr.mpx2 Xx mk.sónic sythe critical art but i never get it to come out or its late or is it not possible to Cancel ss into ca help me pleez

    check the nash beginner's thread
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  • Super eelSuper eel Joined: Posts: 57
    Whats your gameplan with nash? Im struggling with him. Am i meant to play him like guile? It feels like he has trex arms.

    I'd say it's completely dependent on your matchup and opponent since he's effective at all ranges. He is a freestyle character in that sense. At close range he has fast normals, at midrange GODLIKE pokes. At farther ranges he has F+HP, Booms and anti-fireballs moves such as V-Skill and Moonsault. However, I find myself positioning myself between poke- and farther ranges since his fireballs allows him to approach aswell as dashing in with his fast dash to poke. But always take into account what kind of opponent your dealing with to determine your strategy and thereby where you want to position yourself.
  • dtgodmage22dtgodmage22 Joined: Posts: 346
    how on earth am i suppose to do back mk into tragedy assault it necer conncets or the dp motion dont come out :(

    going from back to forward is so akward with this motion
  • andeRK83andeRK83 tiGeR! Joined: Posts: 389
    how on earth am i suppose to do back mk into tragedy assault it necer conncets or the dp motion dont come out :(

    going from back to forward is so akward with this motion

    i have a hard time with that as well, so i just use st.mp or cr.mp.
    PSN: andeRK83
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  • NovastormNovastorm Joined: Posts: 462
    how on earth am i suppose to do back mk into tragedy assault it necer conncets or the dp motion dont come out :(

    going from back to forward is so akward with this motion

    Strangely enough, i have no issues with back+MK xx Tragedy or back+MK xx Sonic Boom, but i cannot for the life of me perform back+MK xx Sonic Scythe.....

    I realised as i typed this that this is in no way helpful to you, but perhaps you can take comfort in the fact you're not the only one whose execution is lacking (mine has been lacking in SFIV as well so i'm used to it by now).
  • ZacharaZachara Joined: Posts: 884
    Only way you're going to be able to do it is practice.
    At the moment I'm about 60/40 for hitting in a match and so I don't go for it unless I feel comfortable. But every time I log in I hit up training for 5-10 minutes and that's one of the things I practice.
    I think it might be due to the fact that I'm used to drilling awkward things over and over until I have it down. (I played Adon if SF4 and if you didn't Tiger Knee the Jaguar Kicks, you were going to have a bad time).
  • MeegolMeegol Joined: Posts: 23
    Nash has no escape options?, I did a set with A friend who plays Sim/Rashid. One thing that really shocked me was that I noticed Nash's V-Skill can be interrupted. Apparently there's a small vulnerability window. This basically crushed me. He has no wake up options. I'm being rushed down,nearly about to be stunned, I hit my V Skill to wake up and get out of the corner and he hits me with an Air Fierce> I'm stunned and lose about 70% life. So basically trying to use Vskill to get out is too risky, I just have to sit there and take it. I was already upset with how bad his anti-air game is and now this really makes me want to drop the char. How is it fair that sim gets to Teleport on wakeup for free and be 100 percent safe but Nash has to spend a Vtrigger and still be vulnerable??!!
  • ZacharaZachara Joined: Posts: 884
    I'm going to sound like a dick but it can't be helped -
    Nash has the best wake up option in the game
    Blocking.

    Also if Nash's bad anti air game is making you want to drop the character then there is no way to help you as he has some of the best anti airs in the game.

    Ok, trying to be less of a dick - Use V-Reversal if you're being pressured. Mashing on V-Trigger when you're being pressured is not only a waste of two V-bars and you have a specific move designed for that situation that only uses one V-bar.
    If you're struggling to anti air with Nash, watch the first 1:30 of this video




    There, you made me shameless whore out my own video.
  • NovastormNovastorm Joined: Posts: 462
    Well my execution has always been my biggest weakness in my own opinion, i blame it on my age =P
    If i couldn't get better execution when i still had all the time in the world to practice, i am not getting my hopes up that i'll get it now that i'm working full time =(
    Thanks for the tip though =)
  • ZacharaZachara Joined: Posts: 884
    Novastorm wrote: »
    Well my execution has always been my biggest weakness in my own opinion, i blame it on my age =P
    If i couldn't get better execution when i still had all the time in the world to practice, i am not getting my hopes up that i'll get it now that i'm working full time =(
    Thanks for the tip though =)

    Lol. I know that feel, I'm a Marvel player with old hands and bad execution. xD
    Seriously though, b.MK-TragedyAssault can be awkward and if you don't feel confident doing it, don't. But I definitely would recommend trying it every now and then in a match just for the sake of trying.
  • MeegolMeegol Joined: Posts: 23
    Zachara wrote: »
    I'm going to sound like a dick but it can't be helped -
    Nash has the best wake up option in the game
    Blocking.

    Also if Nash's bad anti air game is making you want to drop the character then there is no way to help you as he has some of the best anti airs in the game.

    Ok, trying to be less of a dick - Use V-Reversal if you're being pressured. Mashing on V-Trigger when you're being pressured is not only a waste of two V-bars and you have a specific move designed for that situation that only uses one V-bar.
    If you're struggling to anti air with Nash, watch the first 1:30 of this video




    There, you made me shameless whore out my own video.

    interesting, I suppose that's a good idea, using alpha counter escape. I'm mainly having trouble with vertical jump ins, I try crouching medium punch but I seem to simply eat the hit a lot. I like the standing medium kick option however basically any jump in where they are right above me or trying to cross me over gives me issues, but they video does help. thx
  • ZacharaZachara Joined: Posts: 884
    I actually feel the need to apologise a little. I was being a dick earlier. I was really damn salty from a session last night. (Friend's TV has delay on it and I've said about it for years. Couldn't even hit confirm a crush counter)

    Anyways, st.MK and b.MK are really good for the awkward jumps coming down on top of you. Another thing to keep in mind is that if you're not sure if you can anti air them that close, consider f.LK as a way to get out of the situation. If done early enough you open up some space between you and didn't have to deal with it. Obviously it's not something to do every time because you have to challenge them at some point or they'll just keep doing it.
    Also think about the Air Throw. I often forget to use it but I've been in matches where I've anti air'd this person at least 5 times and they're still jumping at me but after throwing them out of the air they've started thinking twice.
  • Krazysh0tKrazysh0t Punch to the face! Joined: Posts: 285
    edited February 2016
    Zachara wrote: »
    Also think about the Air Throw. I often forget to use it but I've been in matches where I've anti air'd this person at least 5 times and they're still jumping at me but after throwing them out of the air they've started thinking twice.

    Seconded. I've done this too. Played a few jump happy Giefs (you know the type, can't do 360's without jumping first). For a while I'd be hitting them with air-to-air anti-airs or standing ones. Then I got tired of that and just jumped up and started throwing them. That was when they got the cue to stop jumping.

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  • andeRK83andeRK83 tiGeR! Joined: Posts: 389
    Meegol wrote: »
    Nash has no escape options?, I did a set with A friend who plays Sim/Rashid. One thing that really shocked me was that I noticed Nash's V-Skill can be interrupted. Apparently there's a small vulnerability window. This basically crushed me. He has no wake up options. I'm being rushed down,nearly about to be stunned, I hit my V Skill to wake up and get out of the corner and he hits me with an Air Fierce> I'm stunned and lose about 70% life. So basically trying to use Vskill to get out is too risky, I just have to sit there and take it. I was already upset with how bad his anti-air game is and now this really makes me want to drop the char. How is it fair that sim gets to Teleport on wakeup for free and be 100 percent safe but Nash has to spend a Vtrigger and still be vulnerable??!!

    I wish his vtrigger had start up invulnerability as well :(
    I just block and then vreversal out of the pressure.
    PSN: andeRK83
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  • MeegolMeegol Joined: Posts: 23
    Zachara wrote: »
    I actually feel the need to apologise a little. I was being a dick earlier. I was really damn salty from a session last night. (Friend's TV has delay on it and I've said about it for years. Couldn't even hit confirm a crush counter)

    Anyways, st.MK and b.MK are really good for the awkward jumps coming down on top of you. Another thing to keep in mind is that if you're not sure if you can anti air them that close, consider f.LK as a way to get out of the situation. If done early enough you open up some space between you and didn't have to deal with it. Obviously it's not something to do every time because you have to challenge them at some point or they'll just keep doing it.
    Also think about the Air Throw. I often forget to use it but I've been in matches where I've anti air'd this person at least 5 times and they're still jumping at me but after throwing them out of the air they've started thinking twice.

    right, Although I've found that Nash's air throw isn't as good as sf4 air throws. You have to be parallel to you opponent for the most part. I swear in sf4 the air-throw box seemed bigger, i suppose its something that must be done anticipatory. *shrugs* i'll try it.
  • appomoappomo uupps Joined: Posts: 4,575
    i have a issue with the monsault into rapid punch kombo
    is that really a 3 frame link? i miss is the majority of time so that the dummy just blocks it.
  • SteakfaceSteakface Joined: Posts: 15
    "Also if Nash's bad anti air game is making you want to drop the character then there is no way to help you as he has some of the best anti airs in the game."

    Having to choose the correct anti air out of 5 different buttons based on range and character specifics is not in any way good. I'm not saying Nash is bad or anything like that, but let's not pretend he has strong anti airs because he definitely does not.
  • risemixrisemix Joined: Posts: 929
    edited February 2016
    Steakface wrote: »
    "Also if Nash's bad anti air game is making you want to drop the character then there is no way to help you as he has some of the best anti airs in the game."

    Having to choose the correct anti air out of 5 different buttons based on range and character specifics is not in any way good. I'm not saying Nash is bad or anything like that, but let's not pretend he has strong anti airs because he definitely does not.

    The thing is cr.MP wins in like 80% of scenarios

    the other 20% is choosing between 2-3 options, it's pretty standard across a host of SF characters in various games.

    for example cr.MP will lose often to chun li, but you can just use b.MK against chun li instead and that's it. for gief, st.HK will almost always win. It's not really that complicated, it's just remembering which buttons to use for the different characters and then making adjustments based on the opponent's choices
  • DBrickashawDBrickashaw Joined: Posts: 13
    I stick with st.HK almost exclusively for my AA game, and it works 90% of the time. Might be the level of players I'm facing tho.
  • SteakfaceSteakface Joined: Posts: 15
    I get stuffed consistantly by shoto jumping HK uing cr medium. It also loses to every divekick i've tried it against.
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