Improvements or changes you would like to see in SFV

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  • NaokiB4UNaokiB4U Joined: Posts: 1,282
    edited October 2016
    gigglz wrote: »
    I dont think that whole attacker on air to air resets should have advantage CAN work.

    There are simply too many factors for this to work,
    jump arcs of both chars,
    height of both characters during the exchange,
    jump speed,
    probably even if and which buttons where used by either characters
    extended hurtboxes that are being hit
    etc
    etc.

    There's just too much going on for simply saying "attacker should have adv."

    If you consistantly want to have that adv., you should check the ideal situation and only use it there, every other time you should go for ground to air. It's as simple as that


    If not advantage, then it should reset to neutral. Its really stupid that a successful prediction or guess in an air to air results in the correct prediction getting punished on landing. It would be the same if Ryu correctly DPs me after I jump in, but at certain heights if he DPs me it results in me landing faster and I can crush counter him.

    NCK_Feroce wrote: »
    Maxman wrote: »
    But if you take out AA lights

    What will Alex do ?

    Knee Smash? Lariat? Block?

    Alex is pretty much the only character in the game who needs it and its balanced for. It does not stop cross ups and can be properly countered. Not only that but it can't be mashed like Ryu or Necalli and its 4 frames.
  • QuarkQuark Joined: Posts: 4,068
    NaokiB4U wrote: »
    Alex is pretty much the only character in the game who needs it and its balanced for.

    I don't blame you for forgetting about Dhalsim; everybody does.

    ;(
    "Please understand, I never had a secret chart
    To get me to the heart of this or any other matter"
  • NaokiB4UNaokiB4U Joined: Posts: 1,282
    edited October 2016
    Quark wrote: »
    NaokiB4U wrote: »
    Alex is pretty much the only character in the game who needs it and its balanced for.

    I don't blame you for forgetting about Dhalsim; everybody does.

    ;(

    Doesn't he have like 3-4 anti-air normals though and an invincible teleport and like 2 low profiling slides? Not sure if its 100% necessary for him but I forget about Sim consistently :( I think because hes fairly balanced for the most part so I tend not to think about him when I think of characters that need huge buffs or nerfs. Other characters like Zangief shouldn't have it either but obviously for compensation his lariat should be buffed.
  • QuarkQuark Joined: Posts: 4,068
    edited October 2016
    NaokiB4U wrote: »
    Quark wrote: »
    NaokiB4U wrote: »
    Alex is pretty much the only character in the game who needs it and its balanced for.

    I don't blame you for forgetting about Dhalsim; everybody does.

    ;(

    Doesn't he have like 3-4 anti-air normals though and an invincible teleport and like 2 low profiling slides? Not sure if its 100% necessary for him but I forget about Sim consistently :( I think because hes fairly balanced for the most part so I tend not to think about him when I think of characters that need huge buffs or nerfs. Other characters like Zangief shouldn't have it either but obviously for compensation his lariat should be buffed.

    He needs it to deal with cross-ups; the only other AA that covers that angle is b.HP which is too slow to beat close jump-ins on reaction. It's true he can slide under, but that's undesirable for a few reasons: 1( often leaves sim negative allowing the opponent to continue pressure 2( causes you to lose your positional advantage (especially devastating if you put yourself in the corner) and 3(doesn't actually do anything to deter jump-ins.

    Of all the characters with AA jabs Sim gets the worst mixups afterwards because his forward dash is slow as balls. Apart from that he's made of paper, has sub-par offense, lacks a real reversal, can't even zone properly most of the time, and has a growing number of bad matchups thanks to the DLC characters. He needs buffs, not nerfs.
    "Please understand, I never had a secret chart
    To get me to the heart of this or any other matter"
  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,264
    NaokiB4U wrote: »

    Alex is pretty much the only character in the game who needs it and its balanced for. It does not stop cross ups and can be properly countered. Not only that but it can't be mashed like Ryu or Necalli and its 4 frames.

    I've used Alex's AA jab to beat cross ups before. Sometimes it even auto-corrects.
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  • fohstickfohstick Joined: Posts: 339
    were AA jabs as powerful in SF4?
  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,264
    zektback wrote: »
    Ive had alex jab me out of crossups. It doesnt matter if someone needs a move like that, it shouldnt be doing that in the first place, for any character.

    I don't see anything wrong with an AA being able to shut down crossups. Best AA in the game that does it isn't even a jab.
    PSN: Hawkingbird
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  • zektbackzektback Joined: Posts: 353
    edited October 2016
    zektback wrote: »
    Ive had alex jab me out of crossups. It doesnt matter if someone needs a move like that, it shouldnt be doing that in the first place, for any character.

    I don't see anything wrong with an AA being able to shut down crossups. Best AA in the game that does it isn't even a jab.

    Then if thats the case EVERYONES AAs, whether jab or mediums or heavies, need to be brought up to those levels. We'll see how long that mentality last.
  • QuarkQuark Joined: Posts: 4,068
    edited October 2016
    zektback wrote: »
    zektback wrote: »
    Ive had alex jab me out of crossups. It doesnt matter if someone needs a move like that, it shouldnt be doing that in the first place, for any character.

    I don't see anything wrong with an AA being able to shut down crossups. Best AA in the game that does it isn't even a jab.

    Then if thats the case EVERYONES AAs, whether jab or mediums or heavies, need to be brought up to those levels. We'll see how long that mentality last.

    If we're talking about SFV, I agree that many characters should have their AAs buffed.

    That said, generally speaking I see nothing wrong with some characters having better AAs than others in an SF game. The problem IMO is that many characters in SFV don't even have the bare minimum AA tools needed to force their opponents to play the ground game. Assuming everybody's AA is at least "decent," though, it's ok for some characters to have exceptional AA and others just average.
    "Please understand, I never had a secret chart
    To get me to the heart of this or any other matter"
  • TouchdownTouchdown Joined: Posts: 498
    edited October 2016
    I've used Alex's AA jab to beat cross ups before. Sometimes it even auto-corrects.

    You unskilled SFV engine friendly dependent scrub!

    I love to block!
    "I see many intermediate to intermediate-advanced players stuck in the realm of theory fighting. They are stuck in their minds, hung up on making “the right decision” at every point in the game..These players don’t play with enough intuition, with enough “feeling,” with enough creativity, unpredictability, and daring..."
  • DanoninoDanonino Winning for once. Joined: Posts: 701
    edited October 2016
    To be able to set region for ranked matches, or at the very least see the id, flag and bars of the opponent before playing.
    Post edited by Danonino on
    Never attempt the same move after you have been once thwarted!
  • gigglzgigglz Joined: Posts: 493
    Danonino wrote: »
    To be able to set region for ranked matches, or at the very least see the id, flag and bars of the opponent before playing.

    you can see bars if you set your search to "Ask"
  • TWINBLADESTWINBLADES ON YOUR KNEES!!!! Joined: Posts: 9,352
    zektback wrote: »
    Ive had alex jab me out of crossups. It doesnt matter if someone needs a move like that, it shouldnt be doing that in the first place, for any character.

    I don't see anything wrong with an AA being able to shut down crossups. Best AA in the game that does it isn't even a jab.

    >Yeah man there's nothing wrong with Cheap bullshit
    >I also main a character with AA Jab
    >Totally not bias hahahahaha

    Eject yourself boi!
    SFV: Cammy/Kolin (3 NEW OUTFITS THANK YOU ONO!!! SUCK IT A10METAL)/Karin (Menat too hard fuc dat bich)
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  • gigglzgigglz Joined: Posts: 493
    edited October 2016
    It's sad that after 8 months we're still in the mindset of "i dont like it, capcom should fix it" instead of actually adapting.

    Capcom knows since march that it annoys people, maybe in the mean time before a patch we could actually start adapting to it?

    SFV is a new game, in this game you have to be careful about your jump timings. You got AA jab'd? You mistimed that jump.

    Instead of crying 24/7 about jabs being too strong, you should adapt to them being strong AA tools and root for buffs on other AAs, so it is not the only option/ not the strongest option.

    Capcom has seen your tears, carry on.
    Otherwise, if you dont learn to adapt, you'll get disappointed when they dont nerf AA jabs... and tbh, with capcoms rumored "dont nerf, only buff" policy, I doubt they'll nerf jabs and rather buff designated AA buttons, either with certain effects (CC juggle state, plx..?!), better hit/hurtboxes and/or startup.

    It has been 8 months with constant AA jabs, if that is still something you lose your sleep over, maybe you've got the wrong mindset..?


    edit: fat fingers + tiny phone = tons of spelling errors
  • TWINBLADESTWINBLADES ON YOUR KNEES!!!! Joined: Posts: 9,352
    Quark wrote: »
    TWINBLADES wrote: »
    zektback wrote: »
    Ive had alex jab me out of crossups. It doesnt matter if someone needs a move like that, it shouldnt be doing that in the first place, for any character.

    I don't see anything wrong with an AA being able to shut down crossups. Best AA in the game that does it isn't even a jab.

    >Yeah man there's nothing wrong with Cheap bullshit
    >I also main a character with AA Jab
    >Totally not bias hahahahaha

    Eject yourself boi!

    Here it is with the talk of light AAs being "cheap" again....

    you wouldn't know "cheap" if it dive kicked you in the face.



    also:
    >Yeah man there's nothing wrong with Cheap bullshit
    >I also main a character with AA jab a divekick
    >Totally not bias hahahahaha

    Cammy DK's at a shit height and I get...... uuuuh nothing.

    My opponent can either

    1. Mash jab and trade with my jab
    2. Mash jab faster than me and get a counter hit combo
    3. Grab me
    4. VR

    Also I have an IR yet I don't get an AA jab

    While Necalli has 4 CC on top of an AA jab that easily leads into a 50/50

    Same with Ryu

    I know Ryu's mid range isn't the best but he has a fucking SHORYUKEN!

    AA Jab looks fucking stupid and blocks cross ups way more than it should.


    Waaaaaaaaaa but dive kiiiiiiiiiicks!!!!!!!

    Really nigga?

    How the fuck is a DK as bad as AA fucking jab?!

    Jesus Christ!
    SFV: Cammy/Kolin (3 NEW OUTFITS THANK YOU ONO!!! SUCK IT A10METAL)/Karin (Menat too hard fuc dat bich)
    CFN: TWINBLADES [The "i" in TWINBLADES is actually a lowercase L]
    PSN: CARBON465
  • Arthuro_RayArthuro_Ray Joined: Posts: 226
    edited October 2016
    Cammy shouldn't be complaining about a lack of AA jab when they have a 4 frame AA medium with great hitbox, and a DP that can stop people jumping from very far.
  • TWINBLADESTWINBLADES ON YOUR KNEES!!!! Joined: Posts: 9,352
    Cammy shouldn't be complaining about a lack of AA jab when they have a 4 frame AA medium with great hitbox, and a DP that can stop people jumping from very far.

    I'm not complaining because I don't have one lol

    I think they're stupid as fuck when you already have a DP.
    SFV: Cammy/Kolin (3 NEW OUTFITS THANK YOU ONO!!! SUCK IT A10METAL)/Karin (Menat too hard fuc dat bich)
    CFN: TWINBLADES [The "i" in TWINBLADES is actually a lowercase L]
    PSN: CARBON465
  • NecrotrophicNecrotrophic Isn't a communist. Joined: Posts: 5,910
    Cammy's bmp is honestly better than most aa jabs in some regards. Better damage, same mixup and it's 4 frames if memory serves correctly.
    Northeast PA
    570 Necro
  • DanoninoDanonino Winning for once. Joined: Posts: 701
    edited November 2016
    gigglz wrote: »
    It's sad that after 8 months we're still in the mindset of "i dont like it, capcom should fix it" instead of actually adapting.

    Capcom knows since march that it annoys people, maybe in the mean time before a patch we could actually start adapting to it?

    SFV is a new game, in this game you have to be careful about your jump timings. You got AA jab'd? You mistimed that jump.

    Instead of crying 24/7 about jabs being too strong, you should adapt to them being strong AA tools and root for buffs on other AAs, so it is not the only option/ not the strongest option.

    Capcom has seen your tears, carry on.
    Otherwise, if you dont learn to adapt, you'll get disappointed when they dont nerf AA jabs... and tbh, with capcoms rumored "dont nerf, only buff" policy, I doubt they'll nerf jabs and rather buff designated AA buttons, either with certain effects (CC juggle state, plx..?!), better hit/hurtboxes and/or startup.

    It has been 8 months with constant AA jabs, if that is still something you lose your sleep over, maybe you've got the wrong mindset..?


    edit: fat fingers + tiny phone = tons of spelling errors


    I call bullshit.

    Ryu vs Juri.

    His Jab beats every one of her air buttons clean.
    His jump lk beats everyone of her ground buttons clean.

    Adapt to what? The fact that the above is horribly unbalanced considering her best option is still worse than a shoryuken? Thats pretty unbalanced. So I would guess balance changes will address it.


    They will be nerfed to all hell, I guarantee it.

    Never attempt the same move after you have been once thwarted!
  • QuarkQuark Joined: Posts: 4,068
    Danonino wrote: »
    Ryu vs Juri.

    His Jab beats every one of her air buttons clean.
    His jump lk beats everyone of her ground buttons clean.

    Adapt to what? The fact that the above is horribly unbalanced considering her best option is still worse than a shoryuken? Thats pretty unbalanced. So I would guess balance changes will address it.

    Juri has plenty of options for dealing with fireballs other than jumping. Apart from that she can out-footsie Ryu at just about every range. So stop jumping.

    If Ryu's jump LK beats all of your ground buttons clean... don't try to beat it with your ground buttons. Either DP it or stay out of the range where it's a threat. If you aren't abusing the shit out of Juri's dash you're doing it wrong. Take a look at some of Hsien Chang's matches from Canada Cup.
    "Please understand, I never had a secret chart
    To get me to the heart of this or any other matter"
  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,264
    Did this guy complain about Ryu's jab when Juri's jab can do the same thing? At least complain about shit your character doesn't have.
    PSN: Hawkingbird
    FC: 0834-1564-0151
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  • DanoninoDanonino Winning for once. Joined: Posts: 701
    edited November 2016


    Ooooorrrr

    Maybe Ryus jab shouldn't beat every air normal Juri has. He has a DP (a meterless, 3 frame DP) and should stay out if range himself to use one of his many other AA normals no?
    Why should one of his air normals beat all of Juris ground buttons forcing her to rely on her DP which is actually slower and more prone to whiff hits?

    It's a balance flaw. I get it. Git Gud, don't jump. I'm not talking about any of that. I'm simply pointing out Ryu has two tools that are if not overpowered, very imbalanced to a lot of the cast. I used Juri as an example because I've tested her the most.

    Air throw is actually the best tool against jumping lk. But anyway...

    I stand by what I said and will be very surprised if they survive the nerf bat.
    Never attempt the same move after you have been once thwarted!
  • QuarkQuark Joined: Posts: 4,068
    edited November 2016
    Danonino wrote: »

    It's a balance flaw. I get it. Git Gud, don't jump. I'm not talking about any of that. I'm simply pointing out Ryu has two tools that are if not overpowered, very imbalanced to a lot of the cast. I used Juri as an example because I've tested her the most.

    All you've done is assert that Ryu has things that Juri doesn't. Well no shit.

    Some characters have better jump-ins than other characters. Some characters have better AAs than other characters.

    Some characters can also fucking teleport. Does that mean EVERYBODY needs to have a teleport? Following your logic the answer would be yes.

    Ryu's strong jump-ins and AAs are offset by his weaknesses in other areas, just like Sim's teleport is offset by his weaknesses in other areas.

    I don't like Ryu's j.LK either, because it's hurtbox is stupid and it's frustrating to play against. But just because it sucks to play against doesn't mean Ryu is OP. If they removed his j.LK and AA jab I'd like to see him get a compensation buff elsewhere, such as making cr.MK>fireball a blockstring.
    "Please understand, I never had a secret chart
    To get me to the heart of this or any other matter"
  • zektbackzektback Joined: Posts: 353
    edited November 2016
    Quark wrote: »
    Danonino wrote: »

    It's a balance flaw. I get it. Git Gud, don't jump. I'm not talking about any of that. I'm simply pointing out Ryu has two tools that are if not overpowered, very imbalanced to a lot of the cast. I used Juri as an example because I've tested her the most.

    All you've done is assert that Ryu has things that Juri doesn't. Well no shit.

    Some characters have better jump-ins than other characters. Some characters have better AAs than other characters.

    Some characters can also fucking teleport. Does that mean EVERYBODY needs to have a teleport? Following your logic the answer would be yes.

    Ryu's strong jump-ins and AAs are offset by his weaknesses in other areas, just like Sim's teleport is offset by his weaknesses in other areas.

    I don't like Ryu's j.LK either, because it's hurtbox is stupid and it's frustrating to play against. But just because it sucks to play against doesn't mean Ryu is OP. If they removed his j.LK and AA jab I'd like to see him get a compensation buff elsewhere, such as making cr.MK>fireball a blockstring.

    No the hell they dont. What is it with Shoto defenders and swearing that if one braindead thing of theirs is taken it either somehow makes them lowest tier and unviable or they need to be compensated for something? Youve got a meterless DP, quick dash, dp into super, mp confirms, a meterless DP, easy combos from just about anything, an air tatsu/divekick that goes through fireballs for no meter, a meterless DP, good damage, a guardbreaking super when in VT, a meterless DP, and other great AA options.
    Post edited by zektback on
  • gigglzgigglz Joined: Posts: 493
    zektback wrote: »
    Quark wrote: »
    Danonino wrote: »

    It's a balance flaw. I get it. Git Gud, don't jump. I'm not talking about any of that. I'm simply pointing out Ryu has two tools that are if not overpowered, very imbalanced to a lot of the cast. I used Juri as an example because I've tested her the most.

    All you've done is assert that Ryu has things that Juri doesn't. Well no shit.

    Some characters have better jump-ins than other characters. Some characters have better AAs than other characters.

    Some characters can also fucking teleport. Does that mean EVERYBODY needs to have a teleport? Following your logic the answer would be yes.

    Ryu's strong jump-ins and AAs are offset by his weaknesses in other areas, just like Sim's teleport is offset by his weaknesses in other areas.

    I don't like Ryu's j.LK either, because it's hurtbox is stupid and it's frustrating to play against. But just because it sucks to play against doesn't mean Ryu is OP. If they removed his j.LK and AA jab I'd like to see him get a compensation buff elsewhere, such as making cr.MK>fireball a blockstring.

    No the hell they dont. What is it with Shoto defenders and swearing that if one braindead thing of theirs is taken it either somehow makes them lowest tier and unviable or they need to be compensated for something? Youve got a meterless DP, quick dash, dp into super, mp confirms, a meterless DP, easy combos from just about anything, an air tatsu/divekick that goes through fireballs for no meter, a meterless DP, good damage, a guardbreaking super when in VT, a meterless DP, and other great AA options.

    I like how meterless DP is like 4 times in that list.. :D
    And cammy for example got most of this stuff too, so does Necalli. This has nothing to do with "shoto defending"

    And yes, ryu's got tools for every scenario... that's the point of the character..

    And if you constantly get AA by jabs, you're misplacing your jumps.
    Why are you even jumping in scenario where the opponent has the opportunity to punish it?
    As I see it, if your opponent got a overpowered weapon, it's best to give him no chance to use it. Likewise if you dont jump in like a fool AA jabs are of no concern.

    Juri, as she was your example, probably has no reason to jump at all in that match up.
    Her fireball travels past ryus, she can cancel fireballs with stocks, her mp stock release also cancels fireballs, as does her hk release and she's got hazanshu to quickly get over them and punish. Oh and her charged vskill goes past fireballs too and switches sides.

    See? On paper I can make juri look just as broken as you're trying to with ryu.
    You honestly want me to believe you've never won against a ryu?
    In a match, your opponent wont ever play a perfect game. What you're doing with your jumps is HOPE your opponent is asleep and you get annoyed when he isnt.

    But to end with more than just empty paper talk. You want to jump? You know what juri can do with her fireball negating moveset? Force a pattern out of ryus. Play the fireball game, discover a pattern anf then punish the fireball with s GOOD jump in. There is no jab anti air if your opponent is stuck in recovery frames


    And yet, I dont want to "defend" AA jabs, they ARE annoying to deal with at first but each tool got a counter, the counter to AA jabs is one valuable skill to have; the patience not to jump.

    And instead of crying for 12 months straight we voiced our opinion and now can we please PLEASE carry on and learn how to deal with it?
  • gigglzgigglz Joined: Posts: 493
    NCK_Feroce wrote: »
    I think what he rants for is the disparity of treatment between characters. Obviously Juri has tools to fight Ryu,but no chance in hell she's a character at the same level. The AA jabs/jumpins feud never-ending story is part of this,saying "adapt,git gud" isn't totally correct. Every character can use the AA jab,but only few of them are really godlike including Ryu one because of a different hitbox. Some characters have other normals who work similar (Karin st.hp), but still aren't that good. Capcom definitely need to give a look on that. Ryu in some matchups could even dgaf about his opponents AA options because of hi j.lk who isn't supposed to work like that. You give a look on his hitbox? As a Karin player myself I can only try to dash away from it,because every normal I have lose clean to it and my ex dp often whiff. I can't imagine that move against those who don't have answers to that.
    A jump in means ALWAYS taking a risk, but the risk is lower when the AA works badly for some characters. If every character get a good reliable AA nobody gonna ask for the jab AA removal.

    Agree. I just dont understand the "nerf" mentality that's breeding in this thread.

    I'd much rather see capcom buff normal anti airs then to nerf AA jabs.

    I'd much rather see low and mid tier characters put up to the lvl of chun/necalli/ ken, then to see them dismantle those characters..

    All capcom has to do is make jab aa NOT the best available option, but rather a last resort if you missed the good option.

    I already vouched for it a couple of times but I'd MUCH rather want jumps to be regarded as counter hit state, which makes anti air heavies automatic crush counters, I mean, if you hit someone out of the air it technically is a "counter hit", right?

    Along with some hit- and hurtbox adjustments, I think it could work out just fine... maybe a little too extreme though, would need sone testing obviously
  • NaokiB4UNaokiB4U Joined: Posts: 1,282
    edited November 2016
    gigglz wrote: »
    And if you constantly get AA by jabs, you're misplacing your jumps.
    Why are you even jumping in scenario where the opponent has the opportunity to punish it?
    As I see it, if your opponent got a overpowered weapon, it's best to give him no chance to use it. Likewise if you dont jump in like a fool AA jabs are of no concern.

    See? On paper I can make juri look just as broken as you're trying to with ryu.
    You honestly want me to believe you've never won against a ryu?
    In a match, your opponent wont ever play a perfect game. What you're doing with your jumps is HOPE your opponent is asleep and you get annoyed when he isnt.

    I'm sorry but doing a crossup on Ryu's or Necalli's wakeup while he's on the floor and trading with an AA jab is NOT misplacing my jump, its a broken button for them. Unless you're saying attempting any kind of crossup against these characters is misplacing my jump? In which case I guess never go for crossups on either of them right?


    gigglz wrote: »

    Agree. I just dont understand the "nerf" mentality that's breeding in this thread.

    I'd much rather see capcom buff normal anti airs then to nerf AA jabs.

    I'd much rather see low and mid tier characters put up to the lvl of chun/necalli/ ken, then to see them dismantle those characters..

    All capcom has to do is make jab aa NOT the best available option, but rather a last resort if you missed the good option.

    I already vouched for it a couple of times but I'd MUCH rather want jumps to be regarded as counter hit state, which makes anti air heavies automatic crush counters, I mean, if you hit someone out of the air it technically is a "counter hit", right?

    Along with some hit- and hurtbox adjustments, I think it could work out just fine... maybe a little too extreme though, would need sone testing obviously

    The nerf mentality is there because these buttons seem too good to be what was planned. It doesn't mesh with the rest of the game and the rest of the characters. So few characters have them and use them to the extent that Ryu, Necalli, and Chun (sLK in her case) can that it seems like Capcom forgot those 3 had the button in the first place.

    Buffing some of the mid and bottom tiers may push them to too good levels and it once again skews everything. Nerfing top tiers down to the lower levels is much easier as their unbeatable or godlike tools are already identified. In addition the Top 8 of the cast don't have any 7-3 matchups with anyone at the bottom of the list as far as I know. Conversely someone like Zangief for example suffers against most of the cast, but if we buff him his 8-2 winning matchup against Laura now becomes 10-0.

    I thought it was established long ago that nerfing is much easier than buffing? Are we still trying to convince ourselves that buffing everyone at the bottom level is the way to go? Even as a Laura player who is arguably lower tier, realistically I don't see her being buffed to Ryu levels.

    Also you are pretty much contradicting yourself here. You say you want the jab AA to not be the best available option. That good sir would require a nerf. Because right now, it is the best available option. If you even dare buff say Ryu's DP to compensate for a weakened jab AA, the DP becomes broken and we're at the same spot again.

    In the end though I agree, some hitbox and hurtbox adjustments need to be made. Hell I'd be ok with Ryu keeping that jab hitbox so long as he TRADES if timed improperly and the hurtbox is extended.


  • DanoninoDanonino Winning for once. Joined: Posts: 701
    edited November 2016
    I agree with a fair bit said since my post.
    Just to say though, I wasn't talking about the matchup, or how Ryu was "overpowered" or broken or whatnot.

    I was just pointing out that the j.lk and lp antiair hate is there for a reason, and yes, I did this by saying how I think they are pretty stupid. I got picked up as whining and tried to explain but meh. There are no safe jump ins. That's normal, everyone knows to time a jump, but... I already explained that and my ressons for thinking that they will be nerfed. I just don't see those two buttons surviving as they are. Those buttons being godlike light antiairs on characters where they are an unneeded crutch or just out of place, and that jump lk.

    If that leads to characters getting buffs to counter them then happy days. A hurt box extension on Ryus j.lk nerf or a hitbox extension on Juris stand HP buff, who cares.

    What I really care about is the damn netcode. It's shit. I just had a birdie grab me out of a St.HP I was using to punish a blocked CA. That's him at -30..... I mean. FFS. That makes it pretty pointless to be playing online at all.
    Post edited by Danonino on
    Never attempt the same move after you have been once thwarted!
  • The_ShakunetsuThe_Shakunetsu COULD YOU NAME ALL THE CHARACTERS APPEARED IN MY PIC? (spoilers is in my sig) Joined: Posts: 3,357
    edited November 2016
    Arcade Mode Concepts

    Arcade Mode Plot - I did a concept of Arcade mode with a plot is never a big leap into the timeline because it will be a loosely interpretation of the Cinematic Mode so it won't bring complication and misunderstanding because it's from the same time line but mostly every encounter is based on what if events.

    Bonus Features - I would also like to add a game mechanic that is embedded in all matches in Arcade Mode that works very similar to KOF 13's system called Target Actions because it's like a mini quest within Arcade matches that will add fun factor much more.

    Target Action: (A Similar System)
    "<n>" = is a randomized number 3 to 5
    • Perform <n> number of jumps.
    • Successfully block <n> number of hits.
    • Successfully land a <n> combo hits.
    • Hit (block or unblock) your opponent with <n> Normals
    • Hit (block or unblock) your opponent with <n> Special Moves
    • Do <n> number of dashes.
    • Do <n> number of V-Skill.
    Functionality: Differ from KOF 13's Target Actions.
    • Every random task expires within 10 seconds and will be replace by a newer one.
    • Each succession rewards you with a random 5,10,15 and 20 percent fill up of the full 100% of the EX-Gauge.
    • After succession will be given a another new task.
    • Does not give V-Gauge bonuses
    Sample Task: appearance on screen.
    • Perform 5 number of jumps.
    • Bonus 10% UP in EX-gauge.

    Arcade Matches Flow

    Secret Challenger/Mid Bosses - typical anti-heroes
    • Necalli
    • Juri
    • Viper
    • Nash
    Default Boss - is Fang powered up version( Unli V Trigger and Ex-Gauge)
    Secret Bosses - are like condition of God Rugal and Shin Akuma in CVS2 or Athena and Red Admerer in SVC Chaos
    • Bison (Unli V-Trigger and Ex-Gauge) - why? to reveal that he will come back but not to emphasize his defeat from finishing the mode.
    • Urien (Unli V-Trigger and Ex-Gauge) - where? he is somewhere exploring the whereabouts of Shadaloo or SIN laboratory Experiments..
    The story simply takes place in within the story mode timeline but the matches is loosely base on story mode events because of random encounters and confrontations.
    • 6 random characters
    • Secret Challengers
    • Q as a default bonus like lance/knight in fighting layer.
    • Mini Survival Match with 3 rounds but one life gauge against 3 random dolls
    • Boss fight
    • Secret Bosses..

    A Infinite V-gauge and EX-gauge for Secret bosses and Secret Challengers.

    Overall 10 battles.. together with secret boss and secret challengers

    Endings would be just arts like KOF98 or MVC2 for default boss fight

    Endings for Secret Boss fight have art and texts information about past activities of Shadaloo or Illuminati depending whom is confronted either Urien or Bison.

    It's not to move forward* other than a loosely based story mode that is turned into a arcade mode that would reveal bison did exist after the story mode events and their is another threat organization that is unknown.

    old-stuff

    I did a concept that enhance the Story Mode by merging great ideas from World Tour to work as one without the complication and bringing out the best of the best. It's like Story Mode with a randomized Daily Challenges that works in random but the challenges are alike World Tour.

    The objective of the design flow was to enhance the longevity of SFV standalone content even with or without the online support reliability and especially increase the replay value of story mode.

    Since the SF's story mode that cannot offer random encounters like normal RPG, I have a idea for it to have random match requirements and random CPU power Ups that shift and changes per new battle/round that need to be fullfilled inspired from on SF3 World tour mode. Per battle has a randomized Battle Type Mode that is paired with either Battle Challenge or Battle Attack Mode, I have separated SFZ3's Battles types to avoid Battle Challenge and Battle Attack to work in simultaneously because they can get conflicted with each other when rumbled and randomized together.

    As the difficulty of Story mode increases the number of Battle type and Battle Attack that can activate in a match period.

    The Battle Types: a random CPU Power Up that can be one to all battle type mode can simultaneously activate in a match.

    Sample of Battle Type Mode:
    • Stun/Stamina max(enemy has no stun)
    • Ex-gauge max(enemy has infinite)
    • V-Trigger max(enemy has infinite)
    • Survival (your previous vitality left will be carried over the next match)

    Battle Challenge: Battle requirement on beating the match, Only one challenge is activated in a match.

    Sample Battle Challenge Mode for SFV:
    • Beat the match in V-Trigger mode or move,
    • Use no V-Trigger/V-Skill/Grab/Special/Ex/Super in the whole match
    • Beat the match with Ex-move/special move/Super/Normal/Grab/Crush Counter/Time over
    • Time attack(beat the match in limited time)

    Battle Attack : a random CPU Power Up that can simultaneously activate up to 4 battle attack mode in a match.

    Sample of Battle Attack Mode:
    • Throw Attack(Throw would only damage)
    • Super Attack(Only super move will damage)
    • Combo Attack(Only combo will damage)
    • EX Attack(Only Ex attacks will damage)
    • Combo Attack(Only 2nd hit will confirm as damage)
    • Special Attack(Only special move will damage)
    • 50% CPU vitality indestructibility. (Time Over Battle)
    • 30% CPU vitality indestructibility. (Time Over Battle)

    Battle Bonus: Gives you power ups or rewards upon full filling challenges and meeting the requirements this was done by Street Fighter EX2's bonus stages like beating cycloids and satellites, It's also in the early SNK games like Art of Fighting series where after beating a certain in-between bonus stages would give you a decent power up.

    Sample of Power-Up/Reward for Battle Bonuses Events:
    • Full meter V-gauge next match!
    • Full meter Ex-gauge next match!
    • 50% meter Ex-gauge next match!
    • 50% meter V-gauge next match!
    • Vitality Increase 30% (For Survival Battle Type only).

    Quick Time Events: This is usually present in role playing games but some fighting games already using it like SC and MK for there own version of story mode that either take a portion of your life before the match begins if you fail to meet the appropriate conditional response to that FMV/CGI event.

    They never implemented quick time battles i wonder why? maybe because of other feedback that some dislike it in SC and MK, I think Tekken 7's Story Mode will have as seen on their trailer.


    Post edited by The_Shakunetsu on

    SFV Arcademode, Storymode with SFA3 World Tour Challenges & Vtrigger/Vskill ideas
    Arcade Mode Concepts - Better than traditional Arcade Mode | Story Mode Suggestion - Battle Challenges, Battle Attack & Battle Type | V-Trigger & V-Skill Ideas

    Character Wishlist SFV, DBFZ and MVCi

    My DB Characters for DBFZ
    Solo Characters
    1.) Picolo
    2.) Killin
    3.) Kid Buu
    4.) Pikon
    5.) Hit
    6.) Broly - legendary
    7.) Super Janemba
    8.) Gotenks SSJ3
    9.) Great Ape Baby or Adult Form
    10.) Syn Shenron - can transform to Omega
    11.) Caulifa
    12.) Kale
    13.) Hirudegarn

    Pair/Tag Character - Can be either like the implementation of this characters in the named game: Choi with Chang in CVS2, Cait with Sith in Code Chaos, Hisuii with Kohaku in MB, Danny with Demi in the Outfoxies, Jie Mei Hua in Dong Dong Never Dies and Groove-&-Fight's Oume with Otane.
    14.) Android 18 with Andriod 17
    15.) Rose with Zamasu
    16.) Dr Jero with Andriod 19
    17.) Yamcha with Puar
    18.) Dabura and Babidi

    Team Character - Can be either like the implementation of this characters in the named game: Captain Commando in MVC2, Doronjo in TVC, Tronbone in MVC2 or Ace Attorney in UMVC3.
    19.) Tien - Some specials summons Chiaozu and Launch
    20.) Ginew Forces - with The Ginew Forces Plays like (Captain Commando in MVC2 or Doronjo in TVC)
    21.) Meta Cooler - Plays like Ultron in MVCi
    22.) Roshi - Some specials summons Turtle and Oolong
    23.) Napa - Summon numerous Saibamen (like Gargos Ki or Tronbone in MVC2)
    24.) Bojack

    My Capcom Characters for Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite
    SIGMA X ULTRON HENCHMEN- Consist of bounty hunters, heroes rival, dominant forces and altered or robotized Capcom characters.

    1.) Cyber Akuma - Akuma with cybernetic enhancement, Ryu's recurring rival.
    2.) Mecha Zangief - A Zangief cloned Repliod.
    3.) Devilot with Super-8 from Cyberbots. (older version that look like Doronjo and plays like Doronjo TVC and Trone bonne combined)
    4.) Cyborg Charlie Nash -MvSF Bison's Ending with Shadow lady missiles and electric shock

    CAPCOM- New Characters

    1.) Felyne - from Monster Hunter (rival to Rocket Racoon)
    2.) Hauzer - from Warzard (Godzilla and Kaiju)
    3.) Son-Son - the original son-son (male) (Goku) (plays like Tekkaman Blade in TVC)
    4.) Nina - from Breath of Fire (plot can be from the cause of using Reality Gem)
    5.) Saturn Dyer - Plasma Sword Character (The Mask) (plays like Yatterman -1 in TVC)
    6.) Tessa/Tabasa - from Warzard (her previous plots revolves on crystals involvement)
    7.) Pure and Fur - Protector of Capcom world.
    8.) Rouge - Power Stone (her previous plots revolves on acquiring power stones involvement)
    9.) Anita(Older) (DS/VS What if Character) - A like a Jojo bizzare character/persona/shaman king, summoner that summons Donovan and his sword (Touhou)
    10.) Ingrid - A crossover character
    11.) Ruby Heart - MVC2 (Magic stone involvement) Pirate
    12.) Asura - from Asura's Wrath.
    13.) Astaroth - from Ghost and Goblins size is like Dormammu or from Project-X-Zone
    14.) Nero - Devil May Cry (mix of Vergil, Dante and TVC Soki)
    15.) Shoma - Rival Schools

    MARVEL

    1.) Doom
    2.) Spider-man
    3.) Wolverine
    4.) Thanos
    5.) Venom
    6.) Cyclops

    My Characters for SF5's 3rd Season on wards

    Different Playstyle I want in SFV
    1.) Xianyu and Jianyu - as a pair fights like Choi and Chang in CVS2.
    2.) Delta Red Rep!! - Can play like Captain Commando.
    3.) Yun and Yang - play like how rival school or Capcom Fighting Jam works you can switch characters after or before round in matches.

    Characters I want to return
    1.) Haggar
    2.) Eagle
    3.) Maki
    4.) Sodom
    5.) Blanka
    6.) Lee - Drunken master
    7.) Feilong -(with Iron Fist playstyle like in UMVC3)
    8.) Necro
    9.) Oro - all projectile are now angled diagonally like Dr Fate(Injustice2) to be different from sim & other shoto
    10.) Sagat
    11.) Q
    12.) Viper

    Characters and concepts that need to explored before going to SF3 Timeline
    1.) Tom
    2.) Effie
    3.) Byron
    4.) Noembelu

    Designs I want to see again in SF
    1.) Asuka (from concept design) - play like KOF kazumi and Hokuto from SFex
    2.) Wraith (Slam Master)

    SFV Guest from SF expansions
    1.) Skullomania
    2.) Garuda
  • WikumWikum Joined: Posts: 3,021
    edited November 2016
    The more I play this game the more I realise how much the lag affects my ability to whiff punish. The recent patch definitely helped being able to react to dashes, but it's still not enough. There's so many moves in this game that have deceptively short recovery times. Maybe some recovery times should be switched to coincide with how the animation actually looks.

    I really notice some really weird but subtle stuff going on when I play cross platform matches. What's the difference between PC/PS4 in terms of the input delay these days? I still feel like good PC opponents are able to react to stuff faster than me. Shit like I can't react to Zangief doing ex run grab but on the same connection he can jump react to me throwing an ex boom. The type of thing that I start questioning whether I'm playing someone using macros or even a bot. Of course it could be something simple like them having a faster monitor (I currently have a tv with gaming mode), Maybe I'm imagining it but I don't think I am.

  • QuarkQuark Joined: Posts: 4,068
    Wikum wrote: »
    There's so many moves in this game that have deceptively short recovery times. Maybe some recovery times should be switched to coincide with how the animation actually looks.

    Bingo.

    I'll welcome ANY further reductions in input delay, but I think frame data may be the bigger problem at this point.

    Don't expect Capcom to fix anything though. :(

    "Please understand, I never had a secret chart
    To get me to the heart of this or any other matter"
  • AlkipotAlkipot Speeches are for campaigning... now is the time for action! Joined: Posts: 1,880
    The best thing about the recent posts saying "exploit Ryu's weaknesses" is that they don't seem to have a single one listed.

    Oh shoto lovers, you guys are awesome.
    SFV CFN - EvilMuffinMan (Laura, Guile, ABIGAIL!)
    Watch my terrible MvC: I and SFV play here!
    http://www.youtube.com/user/Alkipot
  • AlkipotAlkipot Speeches are for campaigning... now is the time for action! Joined: Posts: 1,880
    Quark wrote: »
    zektback wrote: »
    No the hell they dont. What is it with Shoto defenders and swearing that if one braindead thing of theirs is taken it either somehow makes them lowest tier and unviable or they need to be compensated for something? Youve got a meterless DP, quick dash, dp into super, mp confirms, a meterless DP, easy combos from just about anything, an air tatsu/divekick that goes through fireballs for no meter, a meterless DP, good damage, a guardbreaking super when in VT, a meterless DP, and other great AA options.

    "Shoto defenders?" "Braindead?" Take that talk out of these forums and back to LTG's channel where it belongs.

    Anyways, congratulations on listing nearly all of Ryu's strengths without mentioning so much as a single weakness. You could do the same for literally any other character and make them sound just as broken. Fortunately every character - Ryu included - has weaknesses that can be exploited.

    Please list Ryu's weaknesses.
    SFV CFN - EvilMuffinMan (Laura, Guile, ABIGAIL!)
    Watch my terrible MvC: I and SFV play here!
    http://www.youtube.com/user/Alkipot
  • QuarkQuark Joined: Posts: 4,068
    Alkipot wrote: »
    Quark wrote: »
    zektback wrote: »
    No the hell they dont. What is it with Shoto defenders and swearing that if one braindead thing of theirs is taken it either somehow makes them lowest tier and unviable or they need to be compensated for something? Youve got a meterless DP, quick dash, dp into super, mp confirms, a meterless DP, easy combos from just about anything, an air tatsu/divekick that goes through fireballs for no meter, a meterless DP, good damage, a guardbreaking super when in VT, a meterless DP, and other great AA options.

    "Shoto defenders?" "Braindead?" Take that talk out of these forums and back to LTG's channel where it belongs.

    Anyways, congratulations on listing nearly all of Ryu's strengths without mentioning so much as a single weakness. You could do the same for literally any other character and make them sound just as broken. Fortunately every character - Ryu included - has weaknesses that can be exploited.

    Please list Ryu's weaknesses.

    His midrange is butt
    "Please understand, I never had a secret chart
    To get me to the heart of this or any other matter"
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