Damage Scaling in MvCi

guitalex2007guitalex2007 Joined: Posts: 3,025
edited September 29 in Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite
Here are my findings on damage scaling in MvCi. Let's hope this info proves useful in optimizing your combos.

The Premise
In MvC3 each strength button had a different minimum scaling. **That is not the case in MvCi**. Instead, the entire damage scaling is determined entirely by ONLY the first hit. Take this Thor combo I found on Youtube.

First off, hats off to Capcom for normalizing the damage on single hit normals so this was easier to test. Thor's HP is 800 no matter if it's standing, crouching, df+HP or jumping. Same with HK. This is important because I rerecorded the combo but instead of starting with an AD j.HP I started with a c.LK (200 damage less starter).

Instead of the df+HP into launch later on, I did s.HK for the same base damage. But... what? The combo does 500 damage less. Not 200. So analyze this hit by hit.

The Scales
Heavy starter: scaling goes 100, 90, 80, 70, 60, 50, 40...
Light starer: scaling goes 100, 81, 72, 63, 54, 48, 45... wait what?

The conclusion? Starting the combo with a light is easier so the engine punishes you by scaling the combo worse.

Projectiles
Projectiles seem to make the scaling be a little odd. If you hit with a projectile and convert with a light, two attacks will have the same scaling, then the scaling will proceed as a heavy starter would.

Note in that video that the two HPs in the air deal the same damage so they're in the same damage scaling.

Throw Starters
Throws scale the followup hits to start at 30%-30%-25%-etc. but the combo scales like heavy starter past that. Hitstun deterioration by then is large but you can OTG, launch and two heavies no problem.

Command throws, though I only attempted Thor's and it does huge damage which is known to also affect hitstun scaling, starts the followups at 25%, which means heavy starter-type scaling as well. Hitstun deterioration is so bad you can't combo two heavies in the air after OTG and launch.

Additional notes
Multihit moves will advance the scaling every 2 hits. For example, Thor's 3-hit air qcf+LP will have the first two hits do the same damage, then the third hit will be the next number. Inserting f+HP (1 hit) before launcher does not scale the launcher but DOES add a hit (so scaling can do something like 100, 90 (f+HP), 90 (launcher), 70 (even though the launcher damage was scaled higher it counted anyways, etc.). There needs to be a little more investigation which is why I'm putting it out there.

Notes on Character Health
Seems as though scaling also occurs on low health a little differently, but this needs investigating. This isn't unusual for a Capcom game. The original Thor combo listed does 8k to characters 10k or highter health, but only 7.8k to 9k-health characters.


FAQ:
Q1: So what's optimal?
A1: Honestly, if you're concerned with the best damage you can get the optimal way to go is to mix the opponent up until you connect with a heavy. We all know that's not exactly the easiest way to open an opponent up, although remember that sweeps and some low command heavies can link into launch. Additionally, some characters can instant air dash into heavies with great hitboxes that can cross up, and Soul Stone can set up some cross up oki situations, so starting a combo with a heavy is not as rare as we might initially think.

Q2: Is it optimal then to use multihit cancellable normals like Thor's f+HP for 1 hit every single time you can, since they don't move scaling for the next hit?
A2: This one is a bit trickier. Scaling does move along, one step even though the number doesn't show it (so f+HP 1 hit into launch doesn't scale the launcher any more than just launching, but the next thing after the launcher is scaled 1 more hit). The problem I found was the increase in hitstun deterioration, at least in the route of the Thor combo I show in this post. It's possible, but the window to rejump jHP is much shorter, almost prohibitively shorter. I suppose it's a case by case basis.

Q3: You mention projectiles changing the scaling. Can you explain that in more detail?
A3: LOL no, I cannot. There has to be a pattern and I can't see it. Although at least for Thor a j.HP dash canceled into j.HP makes the second one not scale and then the scaling is reset to a heavy starter scaling, not every character has an air dash. So if anyone can see the pattern, please post it here.

Post edited by guitalex2007 on
Ms. Fortune is great. Everybody likes a little head action every now and then.
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Comments

  • Nico_oniNico_oni Onigiri Joined: Posts: 25
    Haha, I was coming here at this very moment to ask about the damage scaling system because I couldn't understand the inconsistency in damage with a simple bnb (almost 1000 dmg difference overall depending on if I open with a j.HP or a divekick).

    Your thread answered my exact question about the scaling depending on the move you open the opponent with.

    Thank you very much.
  • guitalex2007guitalex2007 Joined: Posts: 3,025
    Nico_oni wrote: »
    Haha, I was coming here at this very moment to ask about the damage scaling system because I couldn't understand the inconsistency in damage with a simple bnb (almost 1000 dmg difference overall depending on if I open with a j.HP or a divekick).

    Your thread answered my exact question about the scaling depending on the move you open the opponent with.

    Thank you very much.
    No problem. I'm glad I answered someone's question for once! I was having a similar issue coming up with good combos that did over 6k while everyone was showing off similar combos and I was confused.

    I was starting mine with crouching lights.
    Ms. Fortune is great. Everybody likes a little head action every now and then.
    Stream here! Follow @guitalex on Twitter for stream updates!
  • PassTheSaltPassTheSalt The saltiest of the salty snacks. Joined: Posts: 15
    edited September 30
    Good stuff. Thanks for the information! I was in the lab last night and was confused by the numbers I was getting.

    It also seems optimal to follow the KISS rule (Keep It Simple, Stupid) in this game; doing combos omitting Lights and using Heavies instead seems to do more damage despite less hits/more(?) hitstun deterioration.

    Also, ending combos with some supers early instead of doing "full loops" might be optimal... but I could be wrong. It might have to do with the "guts" scaling (see here); we may see GG-esque optimization based on remaining HP in the future. More testing is needed!
  • flickyflicky Super Nintendo Chalmers Joined: Posts: 876
    Lights scaling harder sounds perfectly normal to me.
  • infiniteImageinfiniteImage Joined: Posts: 2
    so from my testing it seems like damage scaling is based on two things: (1) your first attack and (2) how much damage the combo has done. (1) determines the scaling at each step and what damage is required to cause a step. that might explain why you're getting some weird numbers with multi-hits and projectiles. I can give you some more in-depth data if you're interested in getting the numbers right.
  • ifbpwnstarifbpwnstar Lab Monster Joined: Posts: 1,215
    Life total of opponent is a factor as well. I believe there are increment points with ~50% reduction as the max (EX: every 10% loss of life applies a 5% reduction). This may mean that while the combo has damage scaling, there's also other factors. This would explain why adding extra LP and LKs can actually get higher damage than purely chaining together HP and HK. It seems the bets way to optimize combos is to intentionally add in small hits before this point, then use a heavy attack just as you're about to surpass it. However the practical application in a fight gets weird as you'll never really be able to track it.
    MvCi: Gamora/Marvel - Soul
    SF 5: Nash
    UMvC3: Cap (SS) | Vergil (RS) | Strider (vajra)

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