MvCI Meta and Tier Discussion

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  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,877
    How does pushblock work anyway in this game? Some moves seem to completely negate it. I want to push block footdives back to full screen again.

    I've heard that if you perfect push block you can get out of block stun sooner and punish thibgs you normally wouldn't be able.

    I don't know if it works in this game, but in mvc2 and skullgirls which borrows mvc2 mechanics, you can pushblock guard cancel.

    It's weird to explain but suffice it to say that pushblock in skullgirls at least works that it lasts 25 frames. If you let go of the controller and leave it at neutral after the 25 frames, even if you were in the middle of blocking a beam super... you would get hit or be able to do something invincible. Whereas if you didn't pushblock, or just pushblocked then held down back to block you would be able to block like normal.


    Long story short, pushblock allows you to cancel the blockstun of any move and bust out of that move before you normally would if you hold neutral at the end of your pushblock, in mvc2 or skullgirls. It's an extremely important mechanic, without it things like spiral trap and strider doom lockdown would be unbeatable.

    Unfortunately the mechanic is most useful for going directly into an invincible move, but invincible moves are few and far between in mvci, the other really useful thing is to go into a super jump, but with the chicken blocking being nerfed I don't think that's as useful anymore.

    I'm also not sure if pushblock guard cancel exists in mvci, or if it's the same if it does exist.

    We already know that autoblocking during supers is gone so if that's gone it follows that PBGC is also gone during those supers... which is where they would be the most useful.


    Pbgc is so strong in skullgirls that lockdown strats are kind of frowned upon. You basically give your opponent to be free from getting hit by any mixup for a short duration, as well as give them an easy reversal point, so it makes sense that the mechanic might be toned down in mvci.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,246 mod
    Flight dash jab canceling





    zKP5Q7.gif

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • AlMoStLeGeNdArYAlMoStLeGeNdArY Optimize or Die Joined: Posts: 2,343
    Dime wrote: »
    How does pushblock work anyway in this game? Some moves seem to completely negate it. I want to push block footdives back to full screen again.

    I've heard that if you perfect push block you can get out of block stun sooner and punish thibgs you normally wouldn't be able.

    I don't know if it works in this game, but in mvc2 and skullgirls which borrows mvc2 mechanics, you can pushblock guard cancel.

    It's weird to explain but suffice it to say that pushblock in skullgirls at least works that it lasts 25 frames. If you let go of the controller and leave it at neutral after the 25 frames, even if you were in the middle of blocking a beam super... you would get hit or be able to do something invincible. Whereas if you didn't pushblock, or just pushblocked then held down back to block you would be able to block like normal.


    Long story short, pushblock allows you to cancel the blockstun of any move and bust out of that move before you normally would if you hold neutral at the end of your pushblock, in mvc2 or skullgirls. It's an extremely important mechanic, without it things like spiral trap and strider doom lockdown would be unbeatable.

    Unfortunately the mechanic is most useful for going directly into an invincible move, but invincible moves are few and far between in mvci, the other really useful thing is to go into a super jump, but with the chicken blocking being nerfed I don't think that's as useful anymore.

    I'm also not sure if pushblock guard cancel exists in mvci, or if it's the same if it does exist.

    We already know that autoblocking during supers is gone so if that's gone it follows that PBGC is also gone during those supers... which is where they would be the most useful.


    Pbgc is so strong in skullgirls that lockdown strats are kind of frowned upon. You basically give your opponent to be free from getting hit by any mixup for a short duration, as well as give them an easy reversal point, so it makes sense that the mechanic might be toned down in mvci.

    I don't think it works on supers but it should work vs specials. I saw bum soing it on stream a week ago. It seemed legit.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,877
    Dime wrote: »
    How does pushblock work anyway in this game? Some moves seem to completely negate it. I want to push block footdives back to full screen again.

    I've heard that if you perfect push block you can get out of block stun sooner and punish thibgs you normally wouldn't be able.

    I don't know if it works in this game, but in mvc2 and skullgirls which borrows mvc2 mechanics, you can pushblock guard cancel.

    It's weird to explain but suffice it to say that pushblock in skullgirls at least works that it lasts 25 frames. If you let go of the controller and leave it at neutral after the 25 frames, even if you were in the middle of blocking a beam super... you would get hit or be able to do something invincible. Whereas if you didn't pushblock, or just pushblocked then held down back to block you would be able to block like normal.


    Long story short, pushblock allows you to cancel the blockstun of any move and bust out of that move before you normally would if you hold neutral at the end of your pushblock, in mvc2 or skullgirls. It's an extremely important mechanic, without it things like spiral trap and strider doom lockdown would be unbeatable.

    Unfortunately the mechanic is most useful for going directly into an invincible move, but invincible moves are few and far between in mvci, the other really useful thing is to go into a super jump, but with the chicken blocking being nerfed I don't think that's as useful anymore.

    I'm also not sure if pushblock guard cancel exists in mvci, or if it's the same if it does exist.

    We already know that autoblocking during supers is gone so if that's gone it follows that PBGC is also gone during those supers... which is where they would be the most useful.


    Pbgc is so strong in skullgirls that lockdown strats are kind of frowned upon. You basically give your opponent to be free from getting hit by any mixup for a short duration, as well as give them an easy reversal point, so it makes sense that the mechanic might be toned down in mvci.

    I don't think it works on supers but it should work vs specials. I saw bum soing it on stream a week ago. It seemed legit.

    Just watched the Chris g grand finals and his opponent pbgc'd into storm so it's possible to pbgc supers. Or at least ironemand super.... never know with this game, it may or may not apply to all supers.


    Watching the grand finals the on,y thing special I saw from ironman was his damage, it's quite huge. Other than that it was just Chris g's incredible neutral skills.

    And once again space gem takes a tournie. The fact that it's a reversal that puts you in a box makes it like the best reversal there has ever been in a streetfighter game imo.

    Don't even need the surge, just get that great reversal and you good to go.

    If the game ever takes a more grounded approach I expect ironman to go up because his ground movement is quite good.

    Since I have no one to play I'm not even practicing combos. All my time goes into wavedashing and movement in training mode ATM... it's pretty fun to practice and once you get it good you can tell that movement is what will really set the elite players apart from the scrubs.

    Movement in this game is more complex than its ever been imo. The DUD plus wavedashing plus move canceling (Arthur) gives tons of ways to move around and occupy different spaces. This is my kind of game.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • AlMoStLeGeNdArYAlMoStLeGeNdArY Optimize or Die Joined: Posts: 2,343
    Dime wrote: »
    Dime wrote: »
    How does pushblock work anyway in this game? Some moves seem to completely negate it. I want to push block footdives back to full screen again.

    I've heard that if you perfect push block you can get out of block stun sooner and punish thibgs you normally wouldn't be able.

    I don't know if it works in this game, but in mvc2 and skullgirls which borrows mvc2 mechanics, you can pushblock guard cancel.

    It's weird to explain but suffice it to say that pushblock in skullgirls at least works that it lasts 25 frames. If you let go of the controller and leave it at neutral after the 25 frames, even if you were in the middle of blocking a beam super... you would get hit or be able to do something invincible. Whereas if you didn't pushblock, or just pushblocked then held down back to block you would be able to block like normal.


    Long story short, pushblock allows you to cancel the blockstun of any move and bust out of that move before you normally would if you hold neutral at the end of your pushblock, in mvc2 or skullgirls. It's an extremely important mechanic, without it things like spiral trap and strider doom lockdown would be unbeatable.

    Unfortunately the mechanic is most useful for going directly into an invincible move, but invincible moves are few and far between in mvci, the other really useful thing is to go into a super jump, but with the chicken blocking being nerfed I don't think that's as useful anymore.

    I'm also not sure if pushblock guard cancel exists in mvci, or if it's the same if it does exist.

    We already know that autoblocking during supers is gone so if that's gone it follows that PBGC is also gone during those supers... which is where they would be the most useful.


    Pbgc is so strong in skullgirls that lockdown strats are kind of frowned upon. You basically give your opponent to be free from getting hit by any mixup for a short duration, as well as give them an easy reversal point, so it makes sense that the mechanic might be toned down in mvci.

    I don't think it works on supers but it should work vs specials. I saw bum soing it on stream a week ago. It seemed legit.

    Just watched the Chris g grand finals and his opponent pbgc'd into storm so it's possible to pbgc supers. Or at least ironemand super.... never know with this game, it may or may not apply to all supers.


    Watching the grand finals the on,y thing special I saw from ironman was his damage, it's quite huge. Other than that it was just Chris g's incredible neutral skills.

    And once again space gem takes a tournie. The fact that it's a reversal that puts you in a box makes it like the best reversal there has ever been in a streetfighter game imo.

    Don't even need the surge, just get that great reversal and you good to go.

    If the game ever takes a more grounded approach I expect ironman to go up because his ground movement is quite good.

    Since I have no one to play I'm not even practicing combos. All my time goes into wavedashing and movement in training mode ATM... it's pretty fun to practice and once you get it good you can tell that movement is what will really set the elite players apart from the scrubs.

    Movement in this game is more complex than its ever been imo. The DUD plus wavedashing plus move canceling (Arthur) gives tons of ways to move around and occupy different spaces. This is my kind of game.

    I'm trying to take my training slow also. But the majority of my time training is spent on combos. I've only play a couple of casual games to try to get a feel for the game. Haven't nailed down my team yet. I'm doing gamora/dorm ATM but I'm not sure how well they play off of each other. Will probably eventually make two teams just unsure who to pair gamora up with.

    Chris G playing with Iron man is pretty cool. Iron man is getting written off as a character so it's cool to ser him being played.


    There was a lot of tournaments this weekend and a lot of different things happened. So it's going to be interesting seeing how this game develops.
  • quicksquicks Joined: Posts: 3,281
    Fuck ultron j.hp


    Honestly is there any reason why anybody should not be playing ultron???

  • AlMoStLeGeNdArYAlMoStLeGeNdArY Optimize or Die Joined: Posts: 2,343
    quicks wrote: »
    Fuck ultron j.hp


    Honestly is there any reason why anybody should not be playing ultron???

    I don't think Ultron is the type of character that forces you to play him. Unless he's nullifying 90% of the cast I think you'll be alright without playing him.
  • Evil CanadianEvil Canadian T.Hawk is a good guy Joined: Posts: 8,785
    Ultron is basically above average at everything at minimum.

    Every team I have played so far is ultron/* :shy:
  • flickyflicky Super Nintendo Chalmers Joined: Posts: 841
    Defence options

    Works more similar to how it does in Marvel 2 and Skullgirls. The pushblock doesn't push you a million miles away without using an assist.

    A lot of the beam projectiles and certain other projectile specials negate the pushback from pushblock. Like Iron Man's unibeam and Jedah's spirals lock the opponent down completely and don't get pushed back at all. Gamora's guns are like this too.

    Thanks so it seems like you really just have to take shit and just git gud at blocking most the time. I feel like this game may need invincible crossover counters back. I think it'd be fair to spend a meter to get out of all the lockdown>50/50 situations that come up a number of times during the match. There arent really any great defensive options at the moment.

    Time Stone.
  • flighflighflugitflighflighflugit Joined: Posts: 1,547
    Is time stone invincible frame 1?
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 5,061
    Just curious. I played umvc3 on PlayStation. I plan to get a ps4 as I hate the Xbox controllers. Who else in here plays on PlayStation?
    FC:1864 9258 8415
    PSN: Death_Loner_Kage
    Umvc3: Learning Viper...plays tron strange dante strider

    I am willing to play trade and embrace the suck
  • AlMoStLeGeNdArYAlMoStLeGeNdArY Optimize or Die Joined: Posts: 2,343
    charlie88 wrote: »
    Just curious. I played umvc3 on PlayStation. I plan to get a ps4 as I hate the Xbox controllers. Who else in here plays on PlayStation?

    Bro you already know.
  • Intuitive2011Intuitive2011 Cr.Mk XX Hadoken Joined: Posts: 3,658
    Is time stone invincible frame 1?

    No. 2F I believe is invincible. But you can’t mash it as a reversal. That’s why I like reality. It comes out on 1F. But time stone is really useful for counter switch into escape and perhaps, punish if you’re aware.
    "Often times, a loss will strengthen and benefit the player more than a win, so I would say don't be afraid of losing and keeping competing." ~Infiltration
  • flighflighflugitflighflighflugit Joined: Posts: 1,547
    Seems to me that you pretty much have to build a team around a stone, otherwise you're going to have to go with reality.
  • SHwoKingSHwoKing Joined: Posts: 86
    edited October 3
    flicky wrote: »
    Defence options

    Works more similar to how it does in Marvel 2 and Skullgirls. The pushblock doesn't push you a million miles away without using an assist.

    A lot of the beam projectiles and certain other projectile specials negate the pushback from pushblock. Like Iron Man's unibeam and Jedah's spirals lock the opponent down completely and don't get pushed back at all. Gamora's guns are like this too.

    Thanks so it seems like you really just have to take shit and just git gud at blocking most the time. I feel like this game may need invincible crossover counters back. I think it'd be fair to spend a meter to get out of all the lockdown>50/50 situations that come up a number of times during the match. There arent really any great defensive options at the moment.

    Time Stone.

    On beam super lockdown, forget it. It just doesn't work. The only thing i've found actually working is storm activation to whatever is invincible. Arthur has a guaranted Level 3 punish on beam super lockdown when he has storm. Just activate the Storm while in block stun and spam free Storm Level 3.
  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 4,777
    Firebrands fire seams to have a weird arch now or its at least nerfed. Me not happy.
  • UnSaxon51UnSaxon51 HA-LU-KEN Joined: Posts: 4,222
    Ultron seems to fulfill a role similar to Doom and/or Sentinel in this game.
    Which means he's probably not the best character, but he's so useful to his teammate that he'll probably always be on top teams.
    NNID/XboxLive: UnSaxon51

    The real reason Ridley isn't in Smash

    "Haggar is Newton's Laws of Motion, the character." ~ ThatJollyOldBastid

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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,246 mod
    quicks wrote: »
    Fuck ultron j.hp


    Honestly is there any reason why anybody should not be playing ultron???

    You could be playing Dante also. He's the Capcom equivalent of Ultron and probably a better character

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • flickyflicky Super Nintendo Chalmers Joined: Posts: 841
    Dime wrote: »
    flicky wrote: »
    Am I the only one thinking that people are switching more often than they should be, simply because it's quick and easy? As crazy as it is, people's defence will get better and there will be more risks to switching being exposed. It's so easy to beam-tag-wtf but when you have CS, what seems reasonably safe adds a whole new layer to the meta where people will actually have to think about what they're doing, or at least think about the risks of what they're doing, instead going for guarenteed damage and knowing the safety of the string they're doing.

    Naw, I think people should be switching more if anything.

    It's risky sure, but that's marvel. It's the same as having an assist. You assist at the wrong time and you pay... you have to protect your assist/tag when you use it. People aren't yet adept at the protection thing so shit happens.

    More? It's a bit scrubish don't you think? Cross over tag will only work for so long,
    SHwoKing wrote: »
    flicky wrote: »
    Defence options

    Works more similar to how it does in Marvel 2 and Skullgirls. The pushblock doesn't push you a million miles away without using an assist.

    A lot of the beam projectiles and certain other projectile specials negate the pushback from pushblock. Like Iron Man's unibeam and Jedah's spirals lock the opponent down completely and don't get pushed back at all. Gamora's guns are like this too.

    Thanks so it seems like you really just have to take shit and just git gud at blocking most the time. I feel like this game may need invincible crossover counters back. I think it'd be fair to spend a meter to get out of all the lockdown>50/50 situations that come up a number of times during the match. There arent really any great defensive options at the moment.

    Time Stone.

    On beam super lockdown, forget it. It just doesn't work. The only thing i've found actually working is storm activation to whatever is invincible. Arthur has a guaranted Level 3 punish on beam super lockdown when he has storm. Just activate the Storm while in block stun and spam free Storm Level 3.

    Yeah but that's a hyper, for the cost of one bar it's fair game that you're at a disadvantage. The idea is that you use Time stone to prevent your self from getting into that position in the first place. The first and most fundamental of any Marvel game is movement.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,246 mod
    edited October 3
    You should tag most of the time. Your strings last longer and makes bad strings more safe or potentially safe

    The only bad use of tag that I see is people that tag out their 70 percent yellow health character for their 10 percent yellow health partner just to extend their block pressure. Which is dumb because if the opponent somehow counter hits you or mashes super you just lost your character for no good reason. If you sitting partner has danger low health you shouldn't be putting them back in the fight other than to combo into something that will kill

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • flighflighflugitflighflighflugit Joined: Posts: 1,547
    Anyone else been using tick throws a good bit? I can get some ambiguous setups by dashing through people trying to roll away. Wasn't sure how good throws would be with how bad they scale but as long as you can get cheap set ups off of them it makes it worth it.
  • dizzynecrodizzynecro Shenanigans! Joined: Posts: 942
    Anyone else been using tick throws a good bit? I can get some ambiguous setups by dashing through people trying to roll away. Wasn't sure how good throws would be with how bad they scale but as long as you can get cheap set ups off of them it makes it worth it.

    Don't forget throws remove all red life. One throw can be a game changer.
  • KiyaaKingKiyaaKing Joined: Posts: 1,055
    Seems to me that you pretty much have to build a team around a stone, otherwise you're going to have to go with reality.

    Reality is overrated as hell to me. I actually prefer fighting reality stone users over soul and space because there are teams using it that really have no business using it. If you're moving around the screen correctly, you can ignore reality stone spam in neutral, and if you play characters like Spidey or Gammora you can nullify it completely and punish for a full combo. It seems universally useful at first, but only because most opponents are trying to brute force their offense instead of using their movement/tools to force a mistake. My current team of Spidey/Carol doesn't give two shits about reality, and there are ways for just about every character in the game to deal with it if it's not being used for oki pressure or left/right shenanigans as intended.
    My Characters/Teams:
    UMvC3 - Spider-Man/Magneto/Dante, Zero/Dante/Strider, Doom/Dormammu/Dante
    SSF4 - Juri, Yun, El Fuerte
    Injustice - Flash, Zod, Lex Luthor
    Skullgirls - Cerebella/Squigly, Parasoul/Double
    GGXXAC+R - Slayer, Baiken

    3DS FC: 5043-2719-7330
  • TMNTempsTMNTemps brozhear Joined: Posts: 4,235
    Reality definitely doesn't have as strong of a comeback factor as soul stone... fuck soul stone, it brings a dead character back with waaaaay too much health, and makes you ride out the 2 character at once thing for far too long

    power stone might be good too for a universal GTFO option into big damage, and ToDs on activation BUT I might be crazy here but I don't think it works properly in training mode... I think if you have your stone set to "automatically refill" you can do impossible power stone combos because the gauge doesn't properly deplete. Set stone to 100% and it seems to function as normal.

    it's just a suspicion for now. I forgot to test it last night but when I sat down trying to figure out some Cap Marvel power stone stuff I could only do like 7 hits before a full gauge was empty, and I've seen a Chun Li power stone combo where she does 20+ hits with the gauge just ticking down as normal
    GGXrd - Sol // SFV - Ken
    SFV Ken Okizeme Lessons
  • ReticentlyReticently Joined: Posts: 4,095
    What's the list of characters that shit on Reality surge in neutral?

    Gamora, Rocket, Carol, Jedah for sure. I would guess Dorm, Strange, Strider, Thanos too. Who else?
  • KiyaaKingKiyaaKing Joined: Posts: 1,055
    The web zipper, of course. I don't know shit about Spencer, but I assume he has something as well. Hulk and Nemesis can armor through it too.
    My Characters/Teams:
    UMvC3 - Spider-Man/Magneto/Dante, Zero/Dante/Strider, Doom/Dormammu/Dante
    SSF4 - Juri, Yun, El Fuerte
    Injustice - Flash, Zod, Lex Luthor
    Skullgirls - Cerebella/Squigly, Parasoul/Double
    GGXXAC+R - Slayer, Baiken

    3DS FC: 5043-2719-7330
  • dizzynecrodizzynecro Shenanigans! Joined: Posts: 942
    Reticently wrote: »
    What's the list of characters that shit on Reality surge in neutral?

    Gamora, Rocket, Carol, Jedah for sure. I would guess Dorm, Strange, Strider, Thanos too. Who else?

    Ultron, anybody with armor that can move forward with it.
  • ReticentlyReticently Joined: Posts: 4,095
    Spencer is very mobile, but Reality surge does a pretty good job of contesting the space he wants to move through, and his grappler and Reality negate each other on clash. I wouldn't say he's great against it.

    I would have thought Spidey would have similar problems, but thinking about it he's faster than Spencer so I guess I can see it.
  • CavemanCaveman Mashing on throw Joined: Posts: 495
    Spidermans webzip ignores projectiles so he doesnt care at all about it. Any character that has that 'feature' or easy access to armor should be able to wreck reality surge. Definitely add Thor to the list.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,246 mod
    edited October 3
    Dante takes a big poop on reality surge. Teleport air backdash pretty much throws you out of the entire path of the surge and lets you decide to move in or just do it again to keep running away from it. Air play and J.hk can snipe it pretty well. Teleport into rain dance can hop you up and over the surge and shoot it out of the air. Devil Trigger thunderbolt shits on it also. You can just jump up and shoot towards it and it can easily eat up 2 surges on the screen with one bolt.

    Funny enough I think Ryu does well against the surge as well because his beam is very fast start up after the initial charge. It pretty much hits full screen as soon as you let go of the button. Since everyone jumps in the air to shoot the surge jumping up and beaming pretty much covers the entire vertical and horizontal space it could come towards you from. Charging and shooting the beam happens fast enough where you can punish the surge from full screen on reaction. You'll hit them before they can recover to block and get the surge off screen. Plus shinku hadoken reaction punish.


    Captain America can carthweel through it and then tag in your partner. Your partner will come in way far ahead of the surge and then can just pressure the opponent with throws or buttons.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • riburibu A Return to Form Joined: Posts: 2,657
    Seems like it just sort of erases some characters, and others don't care.
    Guess that's cool since you have 2 people, but have to hope one of them gets around it. Doesn't seem like it affects the characters people think are top either so I guess that's cool too...
    CFN-Unlimited_RiBu. MvCI-Hunter/Dante
    Ed_SFV Discord: https://discord.gg/w6naQPC

  • ReticentlyReticently Joined: Posts: 4,095
    So there's something like 14 characters who who beat Reality surge by doing the stuff they want to be doing anyway, and at least another handful who have some sort of known tools for working around it.

    Kind of makes you wish more people complaining would just branch out to the plethora of things that counter pick it.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,246 mod
    So who are the supposed characters that get bodied by reality surge any way? I'm trying to think of some, but can't. At least as far as to the point where you would need to switch in another character or make another team to deal with it.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • SHwoKingSHwoKing Joined: Posts: 86
    edited October 3
    Soul Surge ignore reality stone as well.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,246 mod
    edited October 3
    SHwoKing wrote: »
    Soul Surge ignore reality stone as well.

    Interesting. Soul surge seems to be one of the few projectiles that doesn't nullify it off the screen, but simply passes through it. I wonder if that's because it's technically an attack instead of a projectile. It can also reaction punish from a range and give you free life.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • flickyflicky Super Nintendo Chalmers Joined: Posts: 841
    edited October 3
    You should tag most of the time. Your strings last longer and makes bad strings more safe or potentially safe

    The only bad use of tag that I see is people that tag out their 70 percent yellow health character for their 10 percent yellow health partner just to extend their block pressure. Which is dumb because if the opponent somehow counter hits you or mashes super you just lost your character for no good reason. If you sitting partner has danger low health you shouldn't be putting them back in the fight other than to combo into something that will kill

    But, for example, if Ghost Rider is chilling in the back controlling things swinging chains doing some stray damage, why should you switch to do extra damage and put your self out on the front line just to potentially get countered, when two seconds ago you you were in the back playing a safe keepaway game?

    The point character still has potential to control or survive in the neutral without a partner, like the imidiate thing you shouldn't be doing is "spam spam spam switch, spam spam spam switch..." Yes it works and it's winning people matches but I don't think it's the intelligent way to play the game, it's just the safe way of surviving the current scramble everyone is put in.

    Eventually solid teams will be formed, stone matchups will be understood, and those long switch strings will become predictable, baitable and punishable. You have to remember by switching you're not only protecting your self, but you're changing the matchup as well and you might find that switching is actually unfavourable, to instead fight in the neutral longer until a better opportunity comes along.

    There are no assists anymore, the point character has to provide the assist, which means good neutral and stone play is highly important in making things 100% safe, which at this current time they're not. You know, one wrong switch into an invincible character could be a 40%a/20%b loss of life in a happy birthday, just off a hyper that tagged you both, all they have to do is react to the blue flash and you're coming in pressing buttons. You switched for nothing.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,246 mod
    flicky wrote: »
    You should tag most of the time. Your strings last longer and makes bad strings more safe or potentially safe

    The only bad use of tag that I see is people that tag out their 70 percent yellow health character for their 10 percent yellow health partner just to extend their block pressure. Which is dumb because if the opponent somehow counter hits you or mashes super you just lost your character for no good reason. If you sitting partner has danger low health you shouldn't be putting them back in the fight other than to combo into something that will kill

    But, for example, if Ghost Rider is chilling in the back controlling things swinging chains doing some stray damage, why should you switch to do extra damage and put your self out on the front line just to potentially get countered, when two seconds ago you you were in the back playing a safe keepaway game?

    The point character still has potential to control or survive in the neutral without a partner, like the imidiate thing you shouldn't be doing is "spam spam spam switch, spam spam spam switch..." Yes it works and it's winning people matches but I don't think it's the intelligent way to play the game, it's just the safe way of surviving the current scramble everyone is put in.

    Eventually solid teams will be formed, stone matchups will be understood, and those long switch strings will become predictable, baitable and punishable. You have to remember by switching you're not only protecting your self, but you're changing the matchup as well and you might find that switching is actually unfavourable, to instead fight in the neutral longer until a better opportunity comes along.

    There are no assists anymore, the point character has to provide the assist, which means good neutral and stone play is highly important in making things 100% safe, which at this current time they're not. You know, one wrong switch into an invincible character could be a 40%a/20%b loss of life in a happy birthday, just off a hyper that tagged you both.

    Yeah it's pretty much one of those it's going to work until it stops working things. People probably aren't using stone storm guard cancels enough as that's pretty much the only way to get out of the tightest stuff like beam super lockdown and could potentially set up HBD's on obvious tags. Just since people don't understand enough about the characters and teams it's relatively "safe" to do.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,877
    flicky wrote: »
    You should tag most of the time. Your strings last longer and makes bad strings more safe or potentially safe

    The only bad use of tag that I see is people that tag out their 70 percent yellow health character for their 10 percent yellow health partner just to extend their block pressure. Which is dumb because if the opponent somehow counter hits you or mashes super you just lost your character for no good reason. If you sitting partner has danger low health you shouldn't be putting them back in the fight other than to combo into something that will kill

    But, for example, if Ghost Rider is chilling in the back controlling things swinging chains doing some stray damage, why should you switch to do extra damage and put your self out on the front line just to potentially get countered, when two seconds ago you you were in the back playing a safe keepaway game?

    The point character still has potential to control or survive in the neutral without a partner, like the imidiate thing you shouldn't be doing is "spam spam spam switch, spam spam spam switch..." Yes it works and it's winning people matches but I don't think it's the intelligent way to play the game, it's just the safe way of surviving the current scramble everyone is put in.

    Eventually solid teams will be formed, stone matchups will be understood, and those long switch strings will become predictable, baitable and punishable. You have to remember by switching you're not only protecting your self, but you're changing the matchup as well and you might find that switching is actually unfavourable, to instead fight in the neutral longer until a better opportunity comes along.

    There are no assists anymore, the point character has to provide the assist, which means good neutral and stone play is highly important in making things 100% safe, which at this current time they're not. You know, one wrong switch into an invincible character could be a 40%a/20%b loss of life in a happy birthday, just off a hyper that tagged you both, all they have to do is react to the blue flash and you're coming in pressing buttons. You switched for nothing.

    I'll try to explain this as easily as possible.


    Question:

    OUTSIDE of matchup considerations, what's the most basic and important thing to create or have when conducting offense?

    Answer:

    Frame advantage. Specifically upclose frame advantage.
    Frame advantage leads to mixups, mixups lead to damage, damage leads to you winning the game.

    Tagging correctly is basically ALWAYS going to give you frame advantage so it's something you should always be looking for.


    Yes there are bad tags. No you shouldn't be tagging as fast as possible, you should be looking to tag as much as possible to get frame advantage though so you can go into your mixups more freely.
    Tags are actually a lot like assists. When you pressed assist in older marvels you still had to protect your assist. And you still have to protect your tag in this game as well.


    Now, matchup consideration of course take precedence. If I'm Arthur I don't want to take on Dante or dorm, or if I do I want to rush them down because I don't want to leave myself open to easy teleports.. but those are matchup considerations and outside the general scope of the conversation, you really should be tagging as much as safely possible to be giving yourself the best chance at mixups... ESPECIALLY since moves that move your character forward are basically auto in moves unlike older marvels where a forward moving assist wasn't a free way in.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • otoriotori RTSD Joined: Posts: 6,179
    Reticently wrote: »
    What's the list of characters that shit on Reality surge in neutral?

    Gamora, Rocket, Carol, Jedah for sure. I would guess Dorm, Strange, Strider, Thanos too. Who else?

    What's the logic behind this list? Like why Thanos shits on it? Teleport? Then you're missing other teleporters.

    Gamora or Spiderman, while they can negate the projectile, it only works at a certain angle which the other players should never put themselves unless they're retarded. Like what can Gamora do if you're using the surge above her?
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,246 mod
    Her level 3 can catch the opponent from a pretty far range if they're at normal jump height and don't tag. Otherwise just have to use movement and the f+K air shot to snipe them

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


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