MvCI Meta and Tier Discussion

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  • JohnPauliukJohnPauliuk Joined: Posts: 414
    otori wrote: »
    Reticently wrote: »
    What's the list of characters that shit on Reality surge in neutral?

    Gamora, Rocket, Carol, Jedah for sure. I would guess Dorm, Strange, Strider, Thanos too. Who else?

    What's the logic behind this list? Like why Thanos shits on it? Teleport? Then you're missing other teleporters.

    Gamora or Spiderman, while they can negate the projectile, it only works at a certain angle which the other players should never put themselves unless they're retarded. Like what can Gamora do if you're using the surge above her?

    Because Thanos as a projectile counter that hits at least half screen away and can lead to big damage.
  • Evil CanadianEvil Canadian T.Hawk is a good guy Joined: Posts: 8,873
    Thanos doesn't shit on reality surge in neutral at all. Just cause he can teleport doesn't mean he beats it out.

    If like, the stone is mostly used up ok, the teleport is slow and obvious so...?

    If stone is fresh, its just gonna turn around and hit you.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,345 mod
    edited October 4
    otori wrote: »
    Reticently wrote: »
    What's the list of characters that shit on Reality surge in neutral?

    Gamora, Rocket, Carol, Jedah for sure. I would guess Dorm, Strange, Strider, Thanos too. Who else?

    What's the logic behind this list? Like why Thanos shits on it? Teleport? Then you're missing other teleporters.

    Gamora or Spiderman, while they can negate the projectile, it only works at a certain angle which the other players should never put themselves unless they're retarded. Like what can Gamora do if you're using the surge above her?

    Because Thanos as a projectile counter that hits at least half screen away and can lead to big damage.

    This seems pretty good. Basically the opponent has to jump to super jump height and use the surge to avoid a punish. If Thanos gets in to like even a 1/3 of the screen and they try a normal jump heigh stone the hit box is so big that he can counter their surge on reaction and get a full combo.


    His beam super also punishes it on reaction. LK fireball teleport also has a huge hit box that destroys the surges and keeps the hits intact on the fireball. Probably one of the best options for beating reality surge tag situations.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 4,791
    I don't know about you all but I almost never see people throwing reality stone more than 1/2 character lengths away and generally to guard a recovery. Hard to shit on it in that situation. Granted after sitting in record mode
    trying to figure out the timing to punish the damn thing/prevent another reality stone relatively close up it's still a pain in the ass. (especially reality stone neutral switch close up)
  • flighflighflugitflighflighflugit Joined: Posts: 1,580
    If they are using it that close just reflect it and use it to your advantage
  • GhostTearGhostTear Vanessa for MVCI! Joined: Posts: 2,630
    edited October 4
    I remember hearing its better to get hit cause you recover faster than they do from using it.
    I think it was on teamspookies strean sometime in the last 2 weeks

    edit: meant jump into them and eat it to the face. you recover faster than them even though you got hit.
    Post edited by GhostTear on
  • ReticentlyReticently Joined: Posts: 4,098
    edited October 4
    otori wrote: »
    Reticently wrote: »
    What's the list of characters that shit on Reality surge in neutral?

    Gamora, Rocket, Carol, Jedah for sure. I would guess Dorm, Strange, Strider, Thanos too. Who else?

    What's the logic behind this list? Like why Thanos shits on it? Teleport? Then you're missing other teleporters.

    Gamora or Spiderman, while they can negate the projectile, it only works at a certain angle which the other players should never put themselves unless they're retarded. Like what can Gamora do if you're using the surge above her?

    Reality surge is probably one of the top three complaints you hear about the game, and the only one of those complaints that pertains to gameplay. I am mostly just trying to inquire about how much it really affects the game at the roster level, because I only play a handful of characters myself (and arguably pretty poorly).

    There might be angles where Gamora doesn't have an immediate answer for Reality surge, but if the opponent would have to be "retarded" to use it in most situations during the game, I would have a hard time saying Gamora really has a problem with it. And if the opponent is far enough above her to still call it 'neutral', I would think Gamora's response would be to dash toward open screen and re-establish positioning for her guns.

    With Thanos it isn't just the teleport, but also the fact that lk Titan's Shield and his armored rush punches also deny Reality surge any usefulness much of the time, and those are all things he generally wants to be doing anyway so, he doesn't enormously have to limit his game plan to deal with it.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,897
    Well I've finally played and holy shit am I horrible!

    LOL. Tried a lot of the stones. Reality is easy spam but seems like you have to have "some" skill to make it effective.

    Time was my best stone by far. Seems like a super legit easy mode stone. Just press surge to invincible through people... to easy. Then the storm is basically like easy mode confirms and combos. I think I'll stick with it for now. Lowest entry barrier by far.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,345 mod
    edited October 4
    Dime wrote: »
    Well I've finally played and holy shit am I horrible!

    LOL. Tried a lot of the stones. Reality is easy spam but seems like you have to have "some" skill to make it effective.

    Time was my best stone by far. Seems like a super legit easy mode stone. Just press surge to invincible through people... to easy. Then the storm is basically like easy mode confirms and combos. I think I'll stick with it for now. Lowest entry barrier by far.

    Yeah it's funny that time stone is slept on at all. It really shouldn't be. Even random scrubs online that just mash on port can be difficult to deal with since the port moves you far away from where a lot of your attacks could punish. If it's 2 frame start up you can likely use it like Nash's V Trigger to slip out of mistimed meaties or bad strings.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 4,791
    edited October 4
    If they are using it that close just reflect it and use it to your advantage

    Ultimately the best solution and takes more skill then a button press lol, reason being reality stone is generally followed by a neutral switch in the most trolly offense flows.
    Thing is depending on where the neutral switch happens that pushblock might be hell on earth to do.
    GhostTear wrote: »
    I remember hearing its better to get hit cause you recover faster than they do from using it.
    I think it was on teamspookies strean sometime in the last 2 weeks

    edit: meant jump into them and eat it to the face. you recover faster than them even though you got hit.

    Yeah that's definitely one of my go to's already if they have a character in recovery still (the neutral switch will beat your recovery.)
    However, if they don't have a character in recovery you're just asking to be combo'd. Reality neutral switch is very, very hard to beat up close.
    You literally have to stop them from using the the stone in the first place one character away.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,345 mod
    Also another thing I've found out about reality surge is that grounded surge has less recovery than the air one. Which is basically the opposite of mind where the air one has less start up/recovery than grounded.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 4,791
    Hmm, good to know. Follows the basic rules of projectiles then.
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 5,070
    edited October 4
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=x2Kt5i8wo28

    The Trailer for Sigma and BP. Drops October 17

    FC:1864 9258 8415
    PSN: Death_Loner_Kage
    Umvc3: Learning Viper...plays tron strange dante strider

    I am willing to play trade and embrace the suck
  • MaxmanMaxman Joined: Posts: 1,824
    please tell me Spider-Man is good in this gayum
  • Sp00kyFoxSp00kyFox Joined: Posts: 336
    Maxman wrote: »
    please tell me Spider-Man is good in this gayum
    top tier rait nau



    WEB BALL! REALITY STONE!
  • UnSaxon51UnSaxon51 HA-LU-KEN Joined: Posts: 4,225
    Soul Stone is the secret best stone

    NNID/XboxLive: UnSaxon51

    The real reason Ridley isn't in Smash

    "Haggar is Newton's Laws of Motion, the character." ~ ThatJollyOldBastid

    "Mac is knocking the fabulous right out of Marth!" ~ Saitsu
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 5,070
    edited October 4
    Soul will still be good for pixie characters who already had problems killing bigs. It just improves matchup. I doing anyone will use it unless it is matchup dependant to do what was in the video. Basically I don't think it is game breaking or will invalidate bigs in any way.
    FC:1864 9258 8415
    PSN: Death_Loner_Kage
    Umvc3: Learning Viper...plays tron strange dante strider

    I am willing to play trade and embrace the suck
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,345 mod
    Soul surge is hilariously underused in neutral. Funny seeing people go whole tournaments without using it in neutral. The guy I just played online didn't even use it once

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • ReticentlyReticently Joined: Posts: 4,098
    Who are the characters that can start a combo with a neutral Soul surge without needing to tag?
  • flickyflicky Super Nintendo Chalmers Joined: Posts: 848
    Soul surge is hilariously underused in neutral. Funny seeing people go whole tournaments without using it in neutral. The guy I just played online didn't even use it once

    Yeah the surge is a 100% legit poke, just another useful ranged tool to add you your arsenal, and to see it beating hypers is pretty dope.
  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 4,791
    What's the recovery and startup frames on Soul?
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,905
    Reticently wrote: »
    Who are the characters that can start a combo with a neutral Soul surge without needing to tag?

    Gamora with Shadow Combination.
    Everyone can cancel surge into super though.
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [Xrd] Leo [BBCF] Bullet
    [UNIEL] Orie [T7] Claudio
    [MvCI] Cap Marvel/Thanos (Time)
  • willselesswillseless Joined: Posts: 2,708
    edited October 4
    Reticently wrote: »
    Who are the characters that can start a combo with a neutral Soul surge without needing to tag?

    Gamora with Shadow Combination.
    Everyone can cancel surge into super though.

    Isn't Shadow Combination the only "mimic" type of super that mimics surges? I'm sure I saw soul surge shenanigans with her.

    EDIT to avoid double posting. If they don't change the "inescapable reset", mind stone might go up some tiers.
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 5,070
    Does morrigan and zero hyper not copy stones?
    FC:1864 9258 8415
    PSN: Death_Loner_Kage
    Umvc3: Learning Viper...plays tron strange dante strider

    I am willing to play trade and embrace the suck
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,994 mod
    .
    charlie88 wrote: »
    Does morrigan and zero hyper not copy stones?

    No.
  • AvariceXAvariceX Joined: Posts: 2,621
    d3v wrote: »
    .
    charlie88 wrote: »
    Does morrigan and zero hyper not copy stones?

    No.

    Zero's Sougenmu does.
    UMvC3: Zero/Dante/Strider | MvC2: MSP
    SFIV: Juri | 3S: Yun | ST: O.Ryu
    BB: Rachel, Makoto, u-12 | GGXrd: I-No
  • ManlyPlantManlyPlant Talking Safe Joined: Posts: 117
    charlie88 wrote: »
    Does morrigan and zero hyper not copy stones?

    Yes Power, and Soul are copied for Morrigan you just won't get anything more out of it because power hitting twice cause them to fly up. And soul doesn't give you extra life
  • ES_CurseES_Curse ALL HAIL THE HOLY PHARAOH Joined: Posts: 8,180
    Properly spaced Time Surge during Astral Vision sounds confusing as hell. It's like that game where something's under a cup but they moved the cups around.
    formerly just5moreminutes. I guess the clock ran out.
  • flighflighflugitflighflighflugit Joined: Posts: 1,580
    What's your guys thought on easy hypers? Think they will be tourny ok?

    Sucks that it's seems to be the only way to get reversal hypers after your opponent does one since it completely eats your inputs
  • ReticentlyReticently Joined: Posts: 4,098
    What's your guys thought on easy hypers? Think they will be tourny ok?

    Sucks that it's seems to be the only way to get reversal hypers after your opponent does one since it completely eats your inputs

    I wish they'd just enable full input during the freeze. Just about the only feature of UMvC3's engine I liked better. Felt like Hyper Combo poker.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,897
    So... after having my first extended play session last night, I feel a complaint post is warranted. LOL. Do note that I'm loving this game, most fun I've had since skullgirls or streetfighter 2.


    Complaints:

    Ultron...ugh. Why is his airdash jhp so ridiculous? Why does he get parabolic drones from super jump height? Why is his BNB the easiest shit ever?

    Playing against him reminds me of playing against xvsf sabretooth... if it was xvsf, whichever game he was in where he was extremely powerful and noob friendly, I'm pretty sure it was his first incarnation.

    With ultron having what he has I don't see the point of ironman at all other than character loyalty or the fact that IM just looks way more swag.

    Dante:

    Teleport bs is bad enough, but give him a Honda torpedo move that goes into combos on hit and is safe on block and goes under zoning is a bit much when he also has a teleport.

    All that wouldn't be so bad if he didn't ALSO have a an instant overhead that he can combo off of solo and has great range.... to go along with a lockdown super.

    Were it me I'd nerf the hell out of his instant over head. But that's all.

    Teleport moves:

    Seem way better in this game, especially striders vajra. In older games you could get an invincible assist to kinda deal with this, but in this game with no invincible assists, the teleport xx tag bs is quite strong for literally no execution or spacing or even timing requirements. It's like ex dr but for no meter and gives combo on hit.

    Bah.

    No invincible assists:

    Really hate this. Marvel as a game p, at least mvc2 had great cheesy offense, but that was balanced with great cheesy defense in AAA assists. Now it's just kinda ham yolo all the damn time.

    Lack of reversals in general:

    And not only are there no invincible assists, most characters don't even have viable reversals to stop the cheesy predictable offense.

    Weak pushblock against air dash moves:

    Says it all basically. With no reversals your only recourse against high priority attacks is pushblock... but pushblock doesn't even really work well at all. This is a problem.


    Fortunately most of these are small complaints. The game is derp as fuck, but it's derp in a marvel sort of way, so it still ends up being fun.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,345 mod
    edited October 5
    Defensive options will go up a bit as people learn to use the Storm Guard Cancels more often. They basically make you completely invincible and leap out of pressure as long as you're willing to activate your storm. Just only can have one storm on at a time so have to use it in a spot when no storms are activated obviously.

    That's also why I like playing Morrigan because I have a one meter DP that I can make safe with tag. Plus shadow blades even if they're not invincible still have ridiculously fast start up as a preemptive defense and can tag off those also. Also why I usually start Morrigan first because she just simply has better frames and supers to start the round with than jedah. Can always switch in Jedah when there's space for him to get in and put spirals on the screen.

    Ultron is good, yeah nothing new.

    Dante is never going to be anything but good or top tier. Just has too many tools and like Zero it's just how they retool how good he is.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 4,791
    edited October 5
    Dime wrote: »
    So... after having my first extended play session last night, I feel a complaint post is warranted. LOL. Do note that I'm loving this game, most fun I've had since skullgirls or streetfighter 2.


    Complaints:

    Ultron...ugh. Why is his airdash jhp so ridiculous? Why does he get parabolic drones from super jump height? Why is his BNB the easiest shit ever?

    Playing against him reminds me of playing against xvsf sabretooth... if it was xvsf, whichever game he was in where he was extremely powerful and noob friendly, I'm pretty sure it was his first incarnation.

    With ultron having what he has I don't see the point of ironman at all other than character loyalty or the fact that IM just looks way more swag.

    Dante:

    Teleport bs is bad enough, but give him a Honda torpedo move that goes into combos on hit and is safe on block and goes under zoning is a bit much when he also has a teleport.

    All that wouldn't be so bad if he didn't ALSO have a an instant overhead that he can combo off of solo and has great range.... to go along with a lockdown super.

    Were it me I'd nerf the hell out of his instant over head. But that's all.

    Teleport moves:

    Seem way better in this game, especially striders vajra. In older games you could get an invincible assist to kinda deal with this, but in this game with no invincible assists, the teleport xx tag bs is quite strong for literally no execution or spacing or even timing requirements. It's like ex dr but for no meter and gives combo on hit.

    Bah.

    No invincible assists:

    Really hate this. Marvel as a game p, at least mvc2 had great cheesy offense, but that was balanced with great cheesy defense in AAA assists. Now it's just kinda ham yolo all the damn time.

    Lack of reversals in general:

    And not only are there no invincible assists, most characters don't even have viable reversals to stop the cheesy predictable offense.

    Weak pushblock against air dash moves:

    Says it all basically. With no reversals your only recourse against high priority attacks is pushblock... but pushblock doesn't even really work well at all. This is a problem.


    Fortunately most of these are small complaints. The game is derp as fuck, but it's derp in a marvel sort of way, so it still ends up being fun.

    O' I get it. There's a stream roll derp that is definitely a huge part of the current meta. I have to say that I like the game a lot
    but it can be a bit much on the derp. I finally strayed away from my firebrand/Coon team to get a bit more freedom of movement and see what the other side is like.
    People that I would lose to just got Merc'd as I face rolled Ultron and Dorm. Thinking about just doing Ultraccoon. Just faceroll with ultron into beam supers and traps.

  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,345 mod
    Coon is the problem. Jedahcoon just won NLBC tonight without dropping a match.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • ReticentlyReticently Joined: Posts: 4,098
    Racoon is a pretty manageable problem when he doesn't have a partner behind him that can loop his conversions into set play though. It's the Rocket/Jedah tag team and Sonicfox's natural talent together that make that so nasty.

    Rocket himself is good at getting conversions off of the garbage he puts on the screen, and his sweep is a nasty slide he can make safe on block with a cancel to the right mine.

    Rocket's mines disappear when he's hit though (except the HC one), and he can only have one of each type on the screen at a time. His ability to convert his hits goes WAY down once his lightning mine is just sitting on the screen somewhere, and Rocket gets far less scary if you get him away from mines on the screen (Space surge for example).

    Rocket only anti airs at about a 45 degree angle, so once you get above the angle where Groot can hit you Rocket has to worry. His air to air game is below average. His zoning game pretty much straight loses to any beam he can't duck. His only move with any start-up invincibility is his level 3, which he actually gets locked out of if Groot has been called recently. Rocket has a few good normals, but for the most part they lose to anyone with full sized limbs who isn't desperately slow. His solo damage is mediocre, so he really needs a partner to do work.

    All that isn't to downplay him, I think he's a fantastic point/support. But it takes a good team and a talented player to consistently conceal his flaws.
  • wakalakawakalaka Joined: Posts: 160
    I think rocket has the potential to be among the strongest in the game.

    Lay traps -> space surge you into traps -> ridiculous high-low mixups while you're stuck blocking the traps. Anyone that can leave hitboxes/obstacles out so rocket can set up shop is strong with him.

    He might fall a bit in the tier list once people start figuring out which moves are good for removing his traps though since they disappear on hit, but for now he seems really strong.
  • Hero_PandaHero_Panda Joined: Posts: 530
    Coon is the problem. Jedahcoon just won NLBC tonight without dropping a match.

    Was it SonicFox that won? I'm sure Fox can place high with alot of teams, because he's that skilled.
    I mean, Juri is not on anyone's high tier list, despite having won a tournament that had 3 Rashids in top 8.
  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 4,791
    Hero_Panda wrote: »
    Coon is the problem. Jedahcoon just won NLBC tonight without dropping a match.

    Was it SonicFox that won? I'm sure Fox can place high with alot of teams, because he's that skilled.
    I mean, Juri is not on anyone's high tier list, despite having won a tournament that had 3 Rashids in top 8.

    Damn I have to start paying attention to Sonic Fox. Sounds like he plays all the characters I play and he's from Delaware too LOL! My spirit furry.
  • flighflighflugitflighflighflugit Joined: Posts: 1,580
    Racoon is definitely top tier when both characters are alive.
  • WorstPlayerWorstPlayer Calm Yourself Joined: Posts: 4,791
    edited October 5
    Racoon is definitely top tier when both characters are alive.

    I'm destined to play Jedah I'm just trying not to be a cool kid right now (aka a scrub)
    aka coon is on top tier teams in the current meta. I'd agree with that. After playing more I know it's mainly my lack of training but I could convert off a lot of the shit I'm forcing people into especially with space stone. It's still early though.

    So, I'm starting to freak out and DJ's prediction is coming true. People are really starting to reflect shit on reaction. Here I am trying to do the same shit and taking reality stone to the face. It's just pushblock right?
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