No vids of US SF's 'Golden Era' & best_ever player!?

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  • ShinAkumaxShinAkumax Slick Vic Avatar Joined: Posts: 2,055
    Isn't Daigo 30 or something? He's doing pretty well. Quite a few of those 'legendary' players that are 30 or over still play. The thing is they put in the time still, even if they have much less spare time than teens and young 20 somethings.

    I don't think anyone is saying they are good now, they probably haven't played in a long time. Just saying if you transported those old timer players in their prime to the modern era, it is ignorant to say they couldn't succeed. People before Diago won that first SFIV tournament were saying he's too old, he's done, he was good back then but players are much better now, etc. Obviously they were wrong. Daigo put in the time and won.

    Exercise and good nutrition helps. I play better after a good hour long yoga session or after chopping down wood. More control over your body would naturally help your reaction times.

    Consistency is they key. Thank for the O.G. Sagat tips! I need to be a robot with uppercuts and tiger knee over fireballs to win. Thanks!
    This becomes that.
  • xesxes Evil Forrest Gump Joined: Posts: 2,528
    Isn't Daigo 30 or something? He's doing pretty well. Quite a few of those 'legendary' players that are 30 or over still play. The thing is they put in the time still, even if they have much less spare time than teens and young 20 somethings.

    I don't think anyone is saying they are good now, they probably haven't played in a long time. Just saying if you transported those old timer players in their prime to the modern era, it is ignorant to say they couldn't succeed. People before Diago won that first SFIV tournament were saying he's too old, he's done, he was good back then but players are much better now, etc. Obviously they were wrong. Daigo put in the time and won.

    Seriously, looking back at it, barring nostalgia. The level was simply lower then. Hell, part of the reason is that we've built on the work from that era.

    The age thing aside (and it really was an aside), those guys, at the skill they were then, would get destroyed now. If the overall level was higher, they probably would have fought their way up and would be great now as well... but at that kind of level a lot of the skill is based on your competition, who you play against. And the competition just wasn't at a place to drive those heights.
  • mtsac kidmtsac kid Joined: Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Tomo dropping the knowledge on the first person to execute the crossup

    My favorite quote of 2010 - "No.....Nooooo...NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO....FUCK!!!" Mike Ross during a random AE match with Marn
    My favorite quote of 2011 - "Real men play ST" Ohnuki
    ST and 3S revival while waiting for SFxT..HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,196
    Tomo, Jeff, Mike Watson on Arcade Releif stream:
    http://www.twitch.tv/leveluplive/b/348421297

    LOL, after all this time they still don't get Supers and still complain about them.

    If you want to win at HSF you have to pick ST characters, hah.
  • blufangblufang Devour! Joined: Posts: 4,487
    Well Cronopio, they played during the SF2 era...and stopped by the time ST came out. Super Street fighter 2 was a flop in the US, and the craze died then...ST was very hard to find. A lot of people compain about X factor in MVC3, Ultras in SFIV, etc.

    Future is built on the past...back then there was infinitely more competition, so the game and tactics could progress much faster. At the same time future players could obviously build upon everything learned before and add their own wrinkles.




  • SurenioSurenio Joined: Posts: 1,108
    LOL, after all this time they still don't get Supers and still complain about them.

    If you want to win at HSF you have to pick ST characters, hah.
    And you clearly didn't understand their point and where they were coming from. Supers being good and worthwhile is a matter of opinion/preference, not a fact. Clearly theirs differs from yours.
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,196
    No, they just don't understand them. Especially when someone says you have to pick ST characters in HSF to win because hey, the supers.
  • xesxes Evil Forrest Gump Joined: Posts: 2,528
    Tomo dropping the knowledge on the first person to execute the crossup

    videosnip

    man he ends up sounding dumb. Why in gods name could he not figure out crossups on his own?

    It's not exactly rocket science.
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    Tomo dropping the knowledge on the first person to execute the crossup


    That's silly...any random scrub that decides to play the game and jumps around mashing buttons, will probably end up doing a crossup. Tomo seems to think if Tomo wasn't experiencing it himself (until that moment), then it couldn't have happened before then.

    In the end, there's no way of knowing who did the first crossup or even who the first person was to understand the crossup.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
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  • blufangblufang Devour! Joined: Posts: 4,487
    Cross ups are obviously something people could figure out on their own.




  • xesxes Evil Forrest Gump Joined: Posts: 2,528
    that vid is a good reminder about why we should stop fellating these guys.

    They obviously believe their own myths a little too much.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,731
    People tend to forget how completely different SF2 was when it first came out. The basic concept of a cross-up was beyond anything people could think about. We're talking about a game where even COMBOS were a new idea. New stuff was getting figured out every single day, but it wasn't necessarily common knowledge to anyone except maybe serious tournament-level players, who actually made it a mission to travel to different arcades, and try to find ways to break the game.

    They have a point about supers in SF2. In traditional SF2, minor mistakes were punished with minimal damage, and major mistakes were punished with dizzy combos. Pretty simple mechanic, but it's a risk v. reward system that made sense. Supers were a complete game changer in ST, and altered the way certain matchups were handled at key points. Now, instead of getting a minor punish for making a minor mistake, such as a whiffed sweep or cr.forward, now it's very possible to eat 40-60% damage off of that. What was normally a fairly safe fireball thrown at sweep range, is now a huge risk with little reward. This is why you often see players immediately start to adopt an ultra-conservative style to deal with supers, as a sort of mini-game of trying to defuse the super, before you can go back and play street fighter again. This risk v. reward potential was mitigated in future iterations of street fighter, where games were designed to better incorporate and balance super use, instead of just having supers tacked onto a brand new game for the sake of being fresh (like ST was).

    As far as HSF goes, plenty of old characters were competitively viable. In fact, a large reason why that game isn't being played seriously now, is due to odd game glitches, as well as over-powered characters. CE Bison, CE Guile, and CE/HF Ryu and Sagat were so extremely powerful in that game, the super would hardly even matter. Most were able to kill you before you even got a super.
  • de BLOOde BLOO It's pronounced dee BLOO. Joined: Posts: 4,529
    I regret having this thread showing up in my alerts.

    If I wanted to read a bunch of passive aggressive bitches I would'veOH WAIT I DON'T WANT THAT AT ALL
    GT: Hector Garfria PSN ID: Hector_Garfria
  • mtsac kidmtsac kid Joined: Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    that vid is a good reminder about why we should stop fellating these guys.

    They obviously believe their own myths a little too much.

    Good to see Elton Chong back in the threads again
    My favorite quote of 2010 - "No.....Nooooo...NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO....FUCK!!!" Mike Ross during a random AE match with Marn
    My favorite quote of 2011 - "Real men play ST" Ohnuki
    ST and 3S revival while waiting for SFxT..HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
  • mtsac kidmtsac kid Joined: Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    That's silly...any random scrub that decides to play the game and jumps around mashing buttons, will probably end up doing a crossup. Tomo seems to think if Tomo wasn't experiencing it himself (until that moment), then it couldn't have happened before then.

    In the end, there's no way of knowing who did the first crossup or even who the first person was to understand the crossup.

    reading and listening comprehension fail

    Tomo is just stating who HE saw do the first crossup

    so many new school http://www.gocomics.com/breaking-cat-news who are quick to give a bitchmade response

    but I am glad bitches like you and Xie responded, because it just goes to show how out of touch you were at the reality of the time ( probably wasn't even around for the WW-HF era ). the game was way different and information like that wasn't made known to the US public until the Gamepro Champion Edition tipbook came out. there was no hub like SRK or eventhubs to find out information like this. players literally drove around trying to find the best competition and things like this was observed and copied from first hand eyewitness accounts.

    but yeah, keep being an anonymous / no name salty hater who is comfortable being an arm chair revolutionist / history revisionist
    My favorite quote of 2010 - "No.....Nooooo...NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO....FUCK!!!" Mike Ross during a random AE match with Marn
    My favorite quote of 2011 - "Real men play ST" Ohnuki
    ST and 3S revival while waiting for SFxT..HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,196
    They have a point about supers in SF2. In traditional SF2, minor mistakes were punished with minimal damage, and major mistakes were punished with dizzy combos. Pretty simple mechanic, but it's a risk v. reward system that made sense. Supers were a complete game changer in ST, and altered the way certain matchups were handled at key points. Now, instead of getting a minor punish for making a minor mistake, such as a whiffed sweep or cr.forward, now it's very possible to eat 40-60% damage off of that. What was normally a fairly safe fireball thrown at sweep range, is now a huge risk with little reward. This is why you often see players immediately start to adopt an ultra-conservative style to deal with supers, as a sort of mini-game of trying to defuse the super, before you can go back and play street fighter again. This risk v. reward potential was mitigated in future iterations of street fighter, where games were designed to better incorporate and balance super use, instead of just having supers tacked onto a brand new game for the sake of being fresh (like ST was).

    Having to adapt to new situations and playing perfectly isn't a bad thing, and supers open up new possibilities in the game. And they are another way to fight zoning, giving some characters a chance in matchups like Sim or O.Sagat. Maybe some supers do a bit too much damage compared to how effective they are, but saying that they are a throwaway additions or that they randomize the game / make it not Street Fighter is dumb.
  • MikeBreezy92MikeBreezy92 Too Good Joined: Posts: 348
    They were saying that it changed the game too much from what they liked that's all you need to take out of it. It isn't about adapting but more so not liking the feature enough to want to adapt.
    "JUST WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK I AM!"-Kamina
  • xesxes Evil Forrest Gump Joined: Posts: 2,528
    reading and listening comprehension fail

    Tomo is just stating who HE saw do the first crossup

    so many new school http://www.gocomics.com/breaking-cat-news who are quick to give a bitchmade response

    but I am glad bitches like you and Xie responded, because it just goes to show how out of touch you were at the reality of the time ( probably wasn't even around for the WW-HF era ). the game was way different and information like that wasn't made known to the US public until the Gamepro Champion Edition tipbook came out. there was no hub like SRK or eventhubs to find out information like this. players literally drove around trying to find the best competition and things like this was observed and copied from first hand eyewitness accounts.

    but yeah, keep being an anonymous / no name salty hater who is comfortable being an arm chair revolutionist / history revisionist

    I was there when crossups were invented too! At a particular 7-11 in south Seattle. Also, I can claim tick-throws as well, we totally invented those!

    edit: Although I guess that's not that special, all of these things were invented many times in many places.
  • de BLOOde BLOO It's pronounced dee BLOO. Joined: Posts: 4,529
    The context was given, anyone acting like Tomo was claiming he saw the invention of the cross up is either a)downspergers b)lame troll c)retarded
    GT: Hector Garfria PSN ID: Hector_Garfria
  • xesxes Evil Forrest Gump Joined: Posts: 2,528
    The context was given, anyone acting like Tomo was claiming he saw the invention of the cross up is either a)downspergers b)lame troll c)retarded

    alternatively, its just not looking at it through a fan-filter.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,731
    Having to adapt to new situations and playing perfectly isn't a bad thing, and supers open up new possibilities in the game. And they are another way to fight zoning, giving some characters a chance in matchups like Sim or O.Sagat. Maybe some supers do a bit too much damage compared to how effective they are, but saying that they are a throwaway additions or that they randomize the game / make it not Street Fighter is dumb.

    The issue with ST is that supers were just tacked on without much polish or fine-tuning given as to how it affects the meta game. This can be seen in the way that some characters have extremely powerful supers, while other characters have a fairly useless super that they hardly ever use. Poor Honda's super, while clearly intended to blow through fireballs, is unsafe on hit or block at far ranges, which is clearly a poor design flaw. Ryu v. Ryu is a perfectly beautiful match, until one of them gets a super, then it becomes a dumb game, until the supers go away, and we can resume playing SF again. My issue isn't with supers, because they were clearly better-handled in future iterations of SF, it's the way supers were designed specifically in ST. Now, it's forgivable, since it was the first time that supers were put onto an SF game, but it was far from perfect in its conception.

    Traditional SF play has always been a carefully constructed chess match, full of micro-battles, with an appropriate risk v. reward system in place. This got somewhat turned on its side with supers, and how easily some characters are able to build supers, and completely shift the dynamic of the match. The strategy for many characters revolved around building the super to completely change how your opponent plays, which is the ideal outcome in a matchup, to dictate what your opponent should and should not do. While I love ST, super abuse becomes a very real problem at the meta game.

    Now you say that they assist in certain matches where characters are easily zoned out, but this can be fixed by tweaking either the control or the rush character's options. Blanka certainly had an easier time fighting zoning characters in HF largely due to changes in how his ball and jump attacks motions were handled, no reason they couldn't do the same for others. And pretty much everyone in HF was competitively viable, with the exception of maybe Bison.
    The context was given, anyone acting like Tomo was claiming he saw the invention of the cross up is either a)downspergers b)lame troll c)retarded

    Forum trolls have no concept of reading comprehension. They just want to take things out of context and blow them out of proportion to seem relevant. Just ignore them.
  • blufangblufang Devour! Joined: Posts: 4,487
    1. To some of the kid naysayers, if you were in your diapers or unborn at that time really you don't have a right to speak. (I'm pretty sure all the people ripping on the old timers fall in this category by their ignorant comments). You have no idea what you are talking about. It's like ignorant basketball fans saying Kobe is better than Jordan but never saw Jordan play besides the Wizards years. I don't try to ascertain how great Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Joe Montana, Wilt Chamberlain, etc. were since I wasn't alive during their times or watched them and the scarce video footage is a poor resource for making a sound judgement (though I am certainly aware they were talented).

    2. Debating with the ignorant, well it is a waste of time but let me make one last statement. Right now about 5% of individuals who play video games, play fighting games and among those very few actually are trying to get better most just mash buttons and have a fun time. Back during the golden age...95% of people who played video games, played street fighter. Girls, boys, kids, adults, teens...just about everyone. Also almost everyone was trying to get better/discover new things. So out of this huge pool of players, exponentially larger than for any fighting game following it (especially 2d games), the few players who were considered among the best deserve respect. It was a lot harder back then to get to the top. Peace out.




  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,731
    Not to mention, players back then played for the love of the game, and to get better than the man next to him. Nowadays, it just feels like we have more stream monsters, fan boys, and forum trolls, than actual players who want to get better. People were just hungrier back then to become a better player, instead of wanting to become famous.
  • xesxes Evil Forrest Gump Joined: Posts: 2,528
    1. To some of the kid naysayers, if you were in your diapers or unborn at that time really you don't have a right to speak. (I'm pretty sure all the people ripping on the old timers fall in this category by their ignorant comments). You have no idea what you are talking about. It's like ignorant basketball fans saying Kobe is better than Jordan but never saw Jordan play besides the Wizards years. I don't try to ascertain how great Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Joe Montana, Wilt Chamberlain, etc. were since I wasn't alive during their times or watched them and the scarce video footage is a poor resource for making a sound judgement (though I am certainly aware they were talented).

    2. Debating with the ignorant, well it is a waste of time but let me make one last statement. Right now about 5% of individuals who play video games, play fighting games and among those very few actually are trying to get better most just mash buttons and have a fun time. Back during the golden age...95% of people who played video games, played street fighter. Girls, boys, kids, adults, teens...just about everyone. Also almost everyone was trying to get better/discover new things. So out of this huge pool of players, exponentially larger than for any fighting game following it (especially 2d games), the few players who were considered among the best deserve respect. It was a lot harder back then to get to the top. Peace out.

    You draw a LOT of info from the fact that folks don't give respect to the people you think they should.
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,196
    This can be seen in the way that some characters have extremely powerful supers, while other characters have a fairly useless super that they hardly ever use.

    Why single out supers? That happens with normals and specials too.

    Supers in ST are perfectly fine design wise. They are a way to go through projectiles or to have limited access to reversals for some characters, without having to resort to homogenizing systems. Some are good, some not, some are situational or work in combos. Lumping all of them together and saying they are bad as if all of them were the same is wrong. Some may be too good, but so are some normals and specials (hello O.Sagat).
    Traditional SF play has always been a carefully constructed chess match, full of micro-battles, with an appropriate risk v. reward system in place. This got somewhat turned on its side with supers, and how easily some characters are able to build supers, and completely shift the dynamic of the match. The strategy for many characters revolved around building the super to completely change how your opponent plays, which is the ideal outcome in a matchup, to dictate what your opponent should and should not do. While I love ST, super abuse becomes a very real problem at the meta game.

    ST is exactly the same, with the added complexity of supers. Having to change your strategy when someone has access to supers is not bad, it's good. It makes the game more complex, not the other way around. You can still bait them to make the opponent waste his meter, be aggressive to prevent meter building, etc. Super detractors make it seem as if they were random or you could do nothing against them, which is false.
    Now you say that they assist in certain matches where characters are easily zoned out, but this can be fixed by tweaking either the control or the rush character's options. Blanka certainly had an easier time fighting zoning characters in HF largely due to changes in how his ball and jump attacks motions were handled, no reason they couldn't do the same for others. And pretty much everyone in HF was competitively viable, with the exception of maybe Bison.

    Some characters have that kind of moves. Some have supers. No reason why you should have one or the other. Everyone is competitively viable in ST too, with the exception of Cammy. ST is a much more complex game in every way though, which is the reason we play that instead of HF.
  • PreppyPreppy act like you're used to it Joined: Posts: 14,457 admin
    When the guy clearly says "the first guy I ever saw do cross-ups...", blowing him up for that seems like a pretty serious lack of comprehension, especially when he goes on to clarify that Tony was merely just the first guy he noticed making Cross-ups(TM) a specific part of gameplay.

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  • Axl_m4sterAxl_m4ster 623+P brings people together Joined: Posts: 2,435
    Not to mention, players back then played for the love of the game, and to get better than the man next to him. Nowadays, it just feels like we have more stream monsters, fan boys, and forum trolls, than actual players who want to get better. People were just hungrier back then to become a better player, instead of wanting to become famous.
    ie, losing your quarters>losing face
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  • CrayfishCrayfish Oro of the FGC Joined: Posts: 820 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited January 10
    One last update..
    Compilation video someone has put together of discussion of and Tomo himself:



    and another professional channel short on Tomo with over 1m views!

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