N Ken Thread

Golden_GunmanGolden_Gunman Joined: Posts: 636
Post up all your Ken strats, match-up advice, combos, etc here. There's a lot of players who prefer to play O. Ken, so this thread is just for N.Ken.


Footsies

-- Crouching Mk
-- Crouching RH (can cancel into Hadoken)
-- Crouching MP. (Good priority)
-- Standing Roundhouse. (Ok not a footsie but very useful in footsies as has great range and pretty fast).

Throws
-- Knee Bash (Towards + MK) (See Knee Bash mixups)
-- Rolling throw (towards + roundhouse)
-- Shoulder Drop (towards + Mp)

Knee Bash is Ken's best throw but the shoulder drop can grab from slightly further away and the Rolling Throw can be useful to put your opponent where you want them.

Reversals
Jab Dragon Punch is Ken's best reversal, try drumming all three punch buttons to maximise chances of getting any sort of dragon punch on reversal. I tend to double-tap the jab as I prefer Jab DP for reversal attempts.

EDIT:
Fierce DP is one of the few moves in the game that hits on the first frame, meaning that in theory an opponent can never safe jump in on you. However, if they bait it out of you, your ass is toast on the way down.

Popular Mis-Conception: Shoryu-Reppa (Ken's super) is NOT a reversal. Even if you get a reversal message you can still be beaten when trying this as a reversal attempt.

EDIT: (Thanks jchensor)
Actually, this is not technically true. The reason ShoRyuReppa is "not" a Reversal is because the game won't LET it be one. There is a glitch that if you manage to pull of a True Reversal with the ShoRyuReppa, the game freaks out and, instead, makes you do the previous special move you did. That's how those Combo Videos make Ken do those really low Hurricane Kicks to the floor for one hit right when he gets up, by getting hit out of an Air Hurricane Kick and then doing a Reversal Super. Instead of ShoRyuReppa coming out, you get the one hit Air Hurricane Kick instead.

DOUBLE EDIT:
But if you play AE (the arcade I play at removed ST and put in AE), then ShoryuReppa can be used as a reversal and it's pretty damn good for this use.

Anti Air's

- Dragon Punch (duh)
- Crouching Fierce (aka the Mexican Uppercut), good if you don't think you can get out a dragon in time, Also has quite a high hit box, so you can hit with just the tip of the uppercut.
- Standing Mk. Not great but has some uses.
- Standing MP. Underrated move in my opinion, beats a suprising amount of stuff clean and can connect at a ranges where sometimes a Dragon can miss.
- Far standing Fierce. Similar to MP, if anyhting, has more priority than MP but way slower.
- Close Fierce. Good priority and good as a last resort anti-air.
- Close MK.
- HCF + K. Kind of like Ryu's standing Roundhouse.
- Ken's other funky kicks (DP motion plus Kick, QCF + K).
- Super.

Air - to - Air's

-- Air hurricane kick.
-- Jumping Roundhouse.
-- Jumping Jab (comes out really early).
-- Jumping Fierce.
-- Air throw (In air, towards+mk)
-- Jump straight up Roundhouse


Connecting Shoryu-Reppa from Cr.short X 2 (Hit Confirm)

One always asked question about N.Ken, is how do you connect the Shoryu-Reppa off two crouching shorts? It's a link, and you do it by kara-ing a jab with a short for the super. So you would do crouching short, crouching short, QCF X2, jab + short. The timing for this is the same as if you would connect three crouching shorts on an opponent. At first it's pretty tricky, but this method works for me at least. One tip I would give is to let go off the buttons very quckly before doing the QCF's as if you keep them held down too long, you can end up negative edging and getting Ken's funky kick to come out instead of the Super.

You can also connect the Shoryu-Reppa from crouching MK and a jumping HP, and both of these can be pretty useful.

Connecting Jump Jab to Hurricane.
This is another tricky piece of execution with Ken. You can combo his jumping jab into any hurricane kick (HK is best). This is particularly good after a Knee Bash. The best way to do it is to do a QCB and then at back press jab followed by HK very quickly. (Or do the Jab at down-back).

Juice Kick:
Ken's air hurricance in ST is really nasty, there are several different variations of them. One of the best is known as the "Juice Kick." This is when you do a air hurricane almost immeadiately after jumping towards the opponent. If you do it right, Ken's arc of his hurricane kick will be REALLY low to the ground. This almost has the effect of a Dhalsim stlye teleport, but you hit at the same time! This is really good agaisnt Sagat, if you sense he is going to throw a Low Tiger, you can Juice Kick him and connect with his limbs before he recovers!


Basic Game Plan
With N Ken you really are aiming to just score a knock down. Zone the opponent with Hadoken's and anti -air if they jump-in, and use footsies to keep them away. I would always cancel into a fireball or funky kick after a crouching MK or RH for safety. Get closer to the opponent in between hadokens with Back + Roundhouse, a funky kick or even a short hurricane. It can often be advantageous to dragon punch through an opponent's fireball, to both build meter and gain ground. If you can charge Ken's super up quickly, he becomes a big threat as there are a number of ways to engineer an opening to land this.

You can also go for a jump-in attempt (although don't spam this as you ass will be handed to you). Ken can cross up with Jumping MK, or you can go for a tick throw by clipping the very edge of the opponent's hit box with a jumping RH or jumping short. Also don't be afraid to use a air hurricane to cross up your opponent so you hit on the other side, and then vary this by htiing them the next time on the side facing you. Ken can also use an early jumping jab to jump-in. This is a really funky move as it changes Ken's trajectory in the air somewhat, making for a slightly different arc to his jumping kick moves. You can then combo in the air into a hurricane (and if you connect, finish with a sweep on landing for a good 3 hit combo), or it will keep you safe to then go for throw, tick, zone, whatever. You can also go for a Jumping Fierce which stuffs a lot of air-to-air moves out because of it's immense priority, or if you connect with it deep enough, you can link a super from it on landing. Keep your opponent guessing as to whether you will cross them up, or hit them regularly, and keep them guessing if you will hit deep or high. As stupid as it sounds, sometimes just jumping straight up can bait an opponent into throwing a DP style move if you have conditioned them to expect a jump in, and you can counter appropriately.

If you can score a knock down, then you can setup Ken's wicked ambiguous jump-in games as the opponent is getting up. Because Ken's Cross Up Mk is such a great move, and because he has plenty of other moves to back him up, he is a tremendous threat if he can jump in. You can often safe jump-in with jumping short, or if you think your opponent will expect this, you can go for the cross-up. After this you have a massive list of options you can go for:

- tick throw
- short, short super
- overhead funky kick
- dragon punch (to beat a tech throw attempt)
- throw
- crouching mk XX hadoken / dragon / funky kick

This can ineveitably lead to landing a Knee Bash (towards + MK), which in can turn lead to an all manner of nastiness.

On knock-down you can also go fora tick throw, or to just keep the pressure on the opponent by timing a fireball to hit them as they are waking up.

Knee Bash Mix-Ups:

Jesus this is one nasty mofo of a throw. Not only does it do good damage, it offers you the chance to mixup and go for somethign else afterwards. I'll leave the pro's to come in and digress all the options you can go for, but here are some starters:

-- Walk up, cr. short X 2, hit confirm to super.
-- Walk underneath the opponent, combo. (I would go for standing HP xx Jab dragon as you recover quickly in case the opponent blocked).
-- Jump in Jab XX Hurricane. When you land you get another mixup, you can go for knee bash, dragon punch, tick throw, cr.mk into dragon, sweep XX fireball. Loads of
stuff.
-- Tick throw (e.g. crouching short into knee bash)
-- Jab Dragon (If you think opponent will try to tech out of what they think is another Knee Bash)
-- Nothing at all (If you have conditioned them with a lot of follow up tick throws, they may well try to reversal, so do nothing, waith for them to land from their reversal move and then combo them).
-- Jump over cross-up MK.
-- Crouching Mk / Sweep into fireball.
-- Walk underneath, crouching MK / Sweep into fireball.

Fireball Trap
On top of this Ken also has the classic Fireball trap, although in comparison to Sagat and Ryu, Ken's version is week. At the right ranges, if you throw a jab fireball and it is blocked, then you can throw a fierce fireball for free which the opponent will have no choice but to block. The jab fireball also travels pretty slowly, allowing you to advance towards the opponent. If they jump over your fireball, anti - air them with one of your anti-air's, or if they are jumping from far away, Sweep them as they land, cancelling into a fireball in case they land safely. Mix-up your fireballs when applying pressure from afar and be wary of Ken's recovery on his Fierce fireball, you asking to be jumped in at if you throw this at the wrong time. Be wary when fighting characters like Guile, Sagat and Ryu, whose faster travelling projectiles will wear you down gradually in a fireball war.

Of course I am sure that anyone who has ever played any SF2 game is well aware of the intricacies of the Fireball trap, so I won't expand on it any further here.

Psychic Dragon Punches
Ken's DP is one of the best moves IMO in ST. It comes so quickly, has mad priority and recovers really fucking fast. Only O. Ken has a better DP style move in this game. You can therefore exploit the assests of the DP to use "Psychic" style tactics to beat pokes and throw attempts to really head-fuck your opponent. The use of Psyhic DP's is matchup-dependant, but you can DP through Dhalsim's long limbs, a Shoto's sweep, you can clip an opponent throwing a fireball on start up and pass through the fireball or trade. Again AI won't expand on this, but take a look at any high-level N Ken player (particularly Japanese players Ani-Ken and M.Tsun) and you will see lots of uses of this technique.

Funky Kick / Wacky Kick Ground Cross-Up Trick
If you are pretty much on top of your opponent as they are getting up, if you do a QCF + K, you can sometimes cross up the opponent on the ground and end up on the other side of them. As far as I am aware it does not work al all characters. Perhaps someone else can clarify how this trick is done consistently.

Combos
- Cross-up MK, crouching stong XX RH Hurricane Kick. Good damage and good chance of dizzying and works on all characters.
- Short, short XX super.
- Jump in Jab XX RH Hurricane, Sweep XX Fireball / Hurricane. Good 3 - hit combo of a jump-in jab, typically after a knee-bash. The fireball / hurricnae at the end won't connect but can be used for safety / following up.
-- More to add later.


Yoga Book Hyper Translations - Courtesy of NKI
TECH.02 - You should master the walking DP
"Equally as important as well-timed fireballs is the walking DP. That is, walking towards the opponent, and when you get close, doing a Jab DP. If the opponent sticks out a move to try to stop you from walking forward, not only will pretty much every move will lose to the DP, but they also get knocked down, so you can continue to pressure them as they get up. Of course if you whiff the DP, the opponent can punish it, but because they'll be scared of that DP, it's pretty easy to close the gap just by walking towards them. You want to keep the pressure on the opponent."

TECH.03 - Safe jump Jab after knee bash throw
"If you jump immediately after the knee bash throw, it can be a safe jump depending on who your opponent is. It is extremely useful against Ryu, Boxer and DeeJay, so you definitely want to use it against them. All you have to do is hold up/towards as the throw is finishing. As soon as you're air-born, hit Jab, and it will be a meaty on the landing opponent."
Note from NKI: It's only a safe jump against Boxer, and DeeJay's Forward and RH upkicks. (DeeJay can hit Ken with reversal Short upkicks, but not Forward or RH.)
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Comments

  • N-KenN-Ken dipthrongjr jr Joined: Posts: 2,935
    Fuck strat forum gurus, Im top tier bitches.
    SHIPP ITT: hey vietcong SHIPP ITT: nice job sunday
    vietcong01: tyshipp SHIPP ITT: np, hud
    vietcong01: ok gl
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    Popular Mis-Conception: Shoryu-Reppa (Ken's super) is NOT a reversal. Even if you get a reversal message you can still be beaten when trying this as a reversal attempt.

    Actually, this is not technically true. The reason ShoRyuReppa is "not" a Reversal is because the game won't LET it be one. There is a glitch that if you manage to pull of a True Reversal with the ShoRyuReppa, the game freaks out and, instead, makes you do the previous special move you did. That's how those Combo Videos make Ken do those really low Hurricane Kicks to the floor for one hit right when he gets up, by getting hit out of an Air Hurricane Kick and then doing a Reversal Super. Instead of ShoRyuReppa coming out, you get the one hit Air Hurricane Kick instead.

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

    (AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    What if the last special you did was a super?

    I don't really understand how they make these sorts of programming mistakes. I mean why does the engine even bother remembering the last move you did?
  • Golden_GunmanGolden_Gunman Joined: Posts: 636
    Jchensor, thanks, I did not know that. But how come then when you do a Shoryu Reppa on reversal and the reversal message prints out, the Shoryu Reppa animation still plays? Is the game "lieing" to the player? Anyway that's pretty fucking crazy either way.

    On another note, anyone want to post up some practical Ken combos and advice?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Keep the goodness coming - i've been playing Honda seriously for near 2 years, was looking to learn another character and choose N. Ken... I need all the help I can get. >_>
  • Spirited_AwaySpirited_Away Joined: Posts: 515 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Yeah Reversal Super bug makes you do last special move, but weirdly I managed to get the low 1-hit Air hurricane with O.Ken too and that version has no super ?! more ST weirdness people !!
  • Hol HorseHol Horse a.k.a. Fugo ~ イタリアの強大なユリアン Joined: Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Jchensor, thanks, I did not know that. But how come then when you do a Shoryu Reppa on reversal and the reversal message prints out, the Shoryu Reppa animation still plays? Is the game "lieing" to the player?

    I suppose you're playing AE and not ST. They fixed that no reversal super bug in AE.
    gooby plz
  • Golden_GunmanGolden_Gunman Joined: Posts: 636
    So just out of interest, does it work as a "true" reversal in AE? It's not really important seeing as this is a ST thread, but it would be strange if they fixed it.
  • Hol HorseHol Horse a.k.a. Fugo ~ イタリアの強大なユリアン Joined: Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Yes, it works as a true reversal. They fixed a lot of stuff in AE, the more you play it the more you realize it's different from ST even w/o the old characters.
    gooby plz
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    What if the last special you did was a super?
    Then you can actually do reversal super.
    It was a fun ten years.

    http://nki.combovideos.com
    Thanks to BlazeD and Preppy for hosting!
    Avatar by Buttermaker.
  • Ryu1999Ryu1999 Keyboard Warrior Joined: Posts: 838
    Then you can actually do reversal super.

    Except....how would you have built the meter to get the 2nd super :looney:
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:25 PM): dammit i need toilet paper, we're all out
    Me (10:27:36 PM): backed up to all get out?
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:40 PM): so i'll shit then shower
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:46 PM): then shave
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:48 PM): brb in a bit
  • Hol HorseHol Horse a.k.a. Fugo ~ イタリアの強大なユリアン Joined: Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Except....how would you have built the meter to get the 2nd super :looney:

    blocked/hitting normals. Not really practical, I suppose :rofl:
    gooby plz
  • polaritypolarity I'M BACK BITCHES Joined: Posts: 1,841
    Isn't Ken's Strong DP the only one (as well as one of the few moves in the game) that can't be safe jump-ined? Seems like it'd be a better reversal against jump-ins than the Jab version for that reason.
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    Most safe jumps occur against a person on the ground. I don't think any of Ken's DP would make a difference in that case. The only way it can counter a safe-jump is if hit on the very first frame of the attack. I don't think any of the three do (I can check the YogaGuide again to be sure). Thus, as long a move has some frames before actually hitting, you will always be able to safe-jump it, even if it is really hard to time properly.

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

    (AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
  • Professor JonesProfessor Jones Joined: Posts: 213
    The only way it can counter a safe-jump is if hit on the very first frame of the attack. I don't think any of the three do

    According to the Yoga Hyper book, Ken's feirce DP comes out instantly : the very first frame is a hitting frame. So yeah, it's not possible to do a safe jump-in against a Ken who does a feirce DP on wake up.
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    Well, crikey! You're absolutely right. Awesome!! Good to know! ^_^

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

    (AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
  • Golden_GunmanGolden_Gunman Joined: Posts: 636
    Ok thanks to LM Akira at www.NeoEmpire.com , here are some translations from the Yoga Book Hyper:

    1. START OF ROUND SUGGESTIONS

    i. HP fireball
    ii.
    iii. Wait to see what opponent does
    iv. ... to...

    a) Crouching HK > LP fireball
    b) MK throw or LP dragon punch

    2. CHARGING SUPER BAR

    i. LP dragon punch
    ii. Air hurricane kick

    3. STRATEGY/TECHNIQUE/BLOCK STRINGS

    i. Fireball (blocked) to...

    a) (walk up?) Crouching HK > fireball

    b) MK throw

    c) (walk up?) LP dragon punch

    ii. Cross up MK > crouching LK x 1-3 to...

    a) Crouching HK > fireball

    b) MK throw

    c) LP dragon punch

    iii. Crouching MK > crouching HK > LP or HP fireball

    4. BEST COMBOS

    i. Jumping HK > close standing HP > LP dragon punch

    5. BEST WAY TO AVOID PROJECTILES

    i. LP or HP fireball
    ii. Vertical jump
    iii. Block
    iv. LP dragon punch (invincible frames on start up and hit, vunerable only in recovery)
    v. Hurricane kick (use invincble leg to travel over sonic booms and grand tiger shots)

    6. BEST REVERSALS

    i. LP dragon punch (note in "true" arcade ST, Ken can't use his super as a reversal. If you time his super correctly as a reversal you'll get the last special move you did. In PS1, SS and DC versions as well as HSF2:AE this glitch is fixed)

    7. BEST ANTI AIR

    i. LP dragon punch (ground to air)
    ii. HP dragon punch (ground to air, 3 hits and travels up on steep diagonal)
    iii. Crouching HK (ground to air, close/medium distance)
    iv. Vertical jump HK (air to air)
    v. Close standing HP (ground to air, close distance)
    vi. Crouching HP (ground to air, close/medium distance)
    vii. Far standing MP or far standing HP (ground to air, medium distance)
    viii. Crouching MP (ground to air, close distance)

    8. BEST CROSS UP

    i. Jumping MK
    ii. HK air hurricane kick (may land 1 or 2 hits, if you jump over the middle of your opponent you can perform this as qcf+K)


    Now some of this information may well be mistranslated. For example, that suggested "best combo" won't actually connect. But it's nice to see the rest of the stuff none the less.

    BTW, it would be cool if we could make a list of practical combos. Here is a decent Ken Cross up combo:

    Cross up MK, Cr.mk, QCF + MK (Hold MK for 2nd hit), Sweep.

    I have to say that this combo sometimes causes me problems, the enemy seems to escape the 2nd hit of the QCF + MK. If someone could tell me what I am doing wrong, it would be appreciated.
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    Golden Gunman: to answer your question, don't hold FK for more than 2 frames (the cpu negative edges it so it thinks you input a kick again).

    Ken's "funky" Kicks:
    1. HCF + K Roundhouse, great anti-air, high priority, creates distance btwn opp.

    2. F-DF-D + K Outside Crescent (actual name), good combo finisher

    3. QCF + K Inside Crescent, same properties as #2

    Note: if you hold the kick button for too long the kick (1,2, or 3) will "cancel" into ax kick motion. This is useful if you are using anti-air with #1 and mis-time; you can hold it and gain a couple extra frames.

    As of now the Air Hurricane (AH) trajectory chart hasn't been translated so I'm going to attempt to explain how the A.H. system works. The system is based off the height of your jump when you execute the AH.

    1. AH b/f or after peak of your jump in either diagonal direction. Mathematically the engine tells the cpu to use the tangent of the parabola at the time you execute AH (tangent of a parabola is a straight line) and then "carries" the parabolic curve in the tangents slope.*

    2. AH right at moment of leaving ground in diagonal direction. This is the "Juice kick" it requires very fast input of AH in the first few frames of the jump (this requires practice to be able to pull off 100% of the time).

    3. AH striaght up (cpu still treats this as a parabola) if you input @ peak it will revert to part 1. If you input immediately after leaving ground it will juice kick in short distance. If you input in middle of jump it will shoot you up high.

    AH connects up to 3 times on large/tall opp. and 2 others.
    AH can be used in combos.
    AH can be used at anytime after a air normal has connected (any normal it doesn't matter).
    AH can be used as a cross up.
    Jump straight up RK (right after leaving ground) into AH. This setup allows you to get a 2 hit combo and brings you back down quickly while still spinning. Pretty good trick for mix-up game.

    * note: this is the best way I can explain how the jumps work, it requires mathematical knowledge that can be found on wiki (look for derivative). If anyone sees something wrong or that could be added let me know.

    N. Ken is a fast, flashy, offensive character. Being mainly offensive you have a lot of options as to mix ups, combos, set ups, and traps. Being able to lock down your opp. making them constantly guess is vital to your success. Juice kicks are a must if you're going to use ken (imo it's almost as useful as a teleport due to the speed). Being patient is the key to ken's speed, this allows you to react quickly to an opponents attack. Being able to perform all combos on command is very important to ken's game (messing up a combo can lead to death very quickly so use them wisely).

    Know your opp. i.e. if you're playing against other shoto-like characters use AH sparingly (I'd say never attempt anything except juice kicks unless you're trying to escape then use a "reverse" juice kick), use c.FK, and c.short in diff. combinations with the crescent kicks. Use RH(special) when they attempt jump ins (you must be quick, use immediately after they leave the ground). If a character throws a hadouken and your close use a crescent kick and hold (this will cause you to be "behind" the fireball) if timed right you'll hit them with the ax kick. Use Ken's s.RK (has great range) to advance and cause a considerable amount of damage. Ken's F DP is the best for damage but if missed leaves you wide open. Use fireball's to get the opp. to jump in; here you can either DP, juice kick or wait and as they land use RK. Use Jab DP on wake up. Be very careful when deciding to jump in on shotos (use the juice kick to jump in).
    Note: for O.sagat juice kicks are your best friend, watch for tiger knees on opp. wake up.

    If you're playing against throw characters (gief t.hawk) keep them grounded with a mix up of hadoukens. For gief stick with kara canceling jab into hadouken (this enables faster recovery) in case he uses his banashing punch. You can also use c.FK, and s.RH to keep them at bay. Watch very carefully for tick throws on wake up (there's no gaurantee they'll do one and if you use a DP reversal they'll punish you severly) in general they probably won't use one on a shoto character. Not letting them within close range is vital to winning the match. Use a RK Hurricane kick to help create distance and counter opp. s.normals. If they get to close use a AH to get away safely (if in corner use jumping short or foward as anti-air then DP as you land then poke with c.FK if needed; c.RK can also be used). T.Hawk has a DP move himself so be conscience about it "the hawk" is suppceptable to most anti-air attacks except juice kicks.

    I'll add charge characters later.

    Combos:
    Cross up FK, s.FP, DP+FP, '4 hits' Instant Dizzy!!! Must be VERY meaty FK!
    Jump in F, AH, c.RK 3 hits
    Jump up RK, AH, c.Rk 3 hits
    Jump in RK, s.FP, super
    Jump in F, AH, c.Short, inside crescent RK 5 hits
    Cross up FK, c.MP, Super 7 hits
    Jump in F, Ah, c. short, Super 8 hits
    Cross up AH, c.FK, Super 8 Hits
    Juice Kick, c.Jab/short, super 7~8 hits
    Cross up AH, c.MK, inside crescent RK 5 hits
    Jump in F, s.F, F DP 4~5 hits (sometimes connects all sometimes not)
    Jump in FP, s.FP, super 7 hits
    c.Jab *2, st. Jab, super 8 hits
    c.short *3, super 8 hits
    Juice kick, st.FP, F DP 5~6 hits
    c.jab *2, s.jab, DP+JP, 4 hits
    No freely available material is allowed on this site, no exceptions. - ptp
    SF2 Code v1.0: t s+ T++ r f++ g+ m+ s+ v++ M++ n++:-- o++
  • Footsy BebopFootsy Bebop Joined: Posts: 326
    what's the joystick motion for standing fierce into super with N Ken?
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    Sorry, the combo should read as: Cross up AH, c.FK, Super 8 hits
    No freely available material is allowed on this site, no exceptions. - ptp
    SF2 Code v1.0: t s+ T++ r f++ g+ m+ s+ v++ M++ n++:-- o++
  • Footsy BebopFootsy Bebop Joined: Posts: 326
    ok, how do you not get a fireball to come out instead?
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    Timing is the key.
    Ex. c.Jab, DF + .Jab, F, Jab, D, DF + P 8 hits (21300 pts)I'm SURE it's possible now.
    I'm sorry for the confusion but I had to be sure.
    I'm using AE training mode, Gief as dummy.
    The timing is similar to that of dic's 10 hit combos.
    Jump in FP, st.FP, Super 22500 pts. Pretty easy once you get the timing down.
    No freely available material is allowed on this site, no exceptions. - ptp
    SF2 Code v1.0: t s+ T++ r f++ g+ m+ s+ v++ M++ n++:-- o++
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I think you can do a similar "cheat" that Ryu can use to do his super, though both of these have to start with a jumping attack, not from the ground.

    Jump at your opponent, do a fireball motion as you hit them with a punch (fierce) in the air, then after you land do a standing fierce followed by a fireball. Tada, standing fierce into super.

    Alternatively, you can just do a standing fierce, then crank out the super motion quickly, and you can probably get it to land, but you need some skills for that.
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    what's the joystick motion for standing fierce into super with N Ken?
    D, D/F, F, slight pause, neutral+Fierce, D, D/F+punch.

    It's actually not that hard. The trick to it is getting that pause just right. Pause too short and you'll get a fireball; pause too long and you won't be able to do the super. Gotta get it just right.

    Ryu's st.Fierce xx super is a lot harder for some reason, despite the fact that it's only one input longer than Ken's. (Ryu has to follow through all the way to towards on the second QCF. Ken can stop at D/F.)
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  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    Ryu's combo : (c.opp.) Cross up RK, f + FP, st. FP, super; is pretty easy. For some reason getting the timing down for ken's jump in fp, st.FP, super took me longer to learn. Hmm...I still don't understand why?
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  • Golden_GunmanGolden_Gunman Joined: Posts: 636
    Good stuff. So how do you kara cancel jab into a hadoken, and can you kara cancel the jab into any speed hadoken, or just jab hadoken?
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    Good stuff. So how do you kara cancel jab into a hadoken, and can you kara cancel the jab into any speed hadoken, or just jab hadoken?

    You can cancel any speed hadouken with short or jab which shortens the revovery time. Dn, dn + twds + jab/short, twds + P
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  • Golden_GunmanGolden_Gunman Joined: Posts: 636
    ^^ Thanks, great information BTW. Does this mean that if you throw a kara cancelled jab hadoken from full screen against ST Ryu and he throws a Shinkuu haodken in anticipation, that you can now block the super? One of the hardest things for me during a Ryu vs Ken matchup is that he bosses the fireball war, and when he gets super, you cannot throw a fireball period because otherwsie he supers you for free.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    It will shorten the fireball by a couple frames. It will help a little teeny tiny bit from fullscreen, but... naw, you're pretty much screwed.
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    Who's the number 1 N.ken player? I would like to see some match vids. Thanks
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  • Sanjuro_The_RoninSanjuro_The_Ronin ST 4 life yo! Joined: Posts: 572
    Bad & good match-ups with N.Ken

    I was wondering what N.Ken's bad and good match-ups were. If anybody could help me with this I would appreciate it alot. Thanks.
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  • Sanjuro_The_RoninSanjuro_The_Ronin ST 4 life yo! Joined: Posts: 572
    Thanks for moving my thread to this one, this is good stuff here. I would say that the no.1 n.Ken player in the world would be Ani-Ken. If anybody would like to correct me on this then please do but ive seen match vids of his and he is amazing with him.
    It's kind of late in history to be coming up with real good ideas, luckily I have plenty of really bad fucking ideas.
  • Golden_GunmanGolden_Gunman Joined: Posts: 636
    Another really good Ken player is M-tsun, the purple Ken player. I really like his style, even more fun to watch than Aniken, although I agree that Aniken is probably the better player.

    As for hard match=ups, I find the greatest difficutly against Ryu and Sagat. These guys dominate the fireball war and in certain respects it's case of "anything you can do, they can do better." Ryu can be really dangerous as when he has super, even if he is full screen, if you throw a fireball, on reaction he can throw his and get you.

    Good matchups? IMO Dictator is a good match-up, his lack of reversal (barring super) means that if you knock him down, you can jump in for free and set up Knee Bash mindgames. He also does not a particulary strong anti-sir, even his Jumping MP can easily beaten with a Air Hurricane.
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    Thanks for the player names (now I know what vids to start watching).

    Does anyone know if it's possible to connect c.Foward, Outside Crescent (F,D/F,D+K), Shoryureppa (7 hits). I can connect it all and the frame data for ken's outside crescent kick confirm that it's possible (there are 8 non hitting frames at end of the special kick). I tried for an hour last night trying to start the special at the right time to super.
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  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    Getting in There

    A really good method for getting in on opp. is to use the fireball, tatsumaki. I've always had a hard time getting in on sim and sagat. A great method for sim is to throw a fierce firball and follow up with a short tatsumaki. You can continue this and mix it up with jab srk's. For sagat the main thing is to not jump in b/c of his excellent anti-air attacks. You can use the same method for him except use the short tatsumaki's to float over low tiger shots and then use jab srk's to float through high tiger shots. Juice kicks are useful if used sparringly against sagat. Always use c.foward into inside crescent kicks to play mix up games. This has helped me out tremendously and I hope it helps others.
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  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853
    Bump.. This is such a great thread, I was searching on how to combo kens super and found it. I remeber reading it almost a year ago.

    I wanted to bump it, so those surfing the forum can be reminded of its 'bad-ass-ness,' and not let it be lost the the depths of the forums....

    It is a must for ppl wanting to learn how to play Ken.
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  • Golden_GunmanGolden_Gunman Joined: Posts: 636
    Seeing as you were kind enough to bump the thread, I'll add a few more things to this thread. If anyone else wants to contribute, please do so!

    Knockdown cross-up trick. I have seen M.Tsun on knocking the enemy down doing a juice kick as the opponent is getting up. If you do it right, it crosses up the opponent, hits them meaty to keep you safe and allows you to press home the advantage. It's a neat trick because if your opponent goes for a reversal, his controls get switched, and because of the way the hurricae comes out, even if they input the reversal the correct way, they still have a large chance of messing it up. If you do this a few times, then you can alternate it by doing the hurricane early so you dont' cross up. Of course the hard thing is to actually do the Juice Kick, but it's a nice trick either way.

    One other thing, my preffered combo when jumping over a fireball is Hard Punch X RH Hurricane, and Sweep on landing. It's three hits, knocks down, and is very easy to land, unlike the jump in HP, stand HP, Jab Dragon, which can be hard to land on some characters (e.g. Ryu).
  • Sanjuro_The_RoninSanjuro_The_Ronin ST 4 life yo! Joined: Posts: 572
    Seeing as you were kind enough to bump the thread, I'll add a few more things to this thread. If anyone else wants to contribute, please do so!

    Knockdown cross-up trick. I have seen M.Tsun on knocking the enemy down doing a juice kick as the opponent is getting up. If you do it right, it crosses up the opponent, hits them meaty to keep you safe and allows you to press home the advantage. It's a neat trick because if your opponent goes for a reversal, his controls get switched, and because of the way the hurricae comes out, even if they input the reversal the correct way, they still have a large chance of messing it up. If you do this a few times, then you can alternate it by doing the hurricane early so you dont' cross up. Of course the hard thing is to actually do the Juice Kick, but it's a nice trick either way.

    One other thing, my preffered combo when jumping over a fireball is Hard Punch X RH Hurricane, and Sweep on landing. It's three hits, knocks down, and is very easy to land, unlike the jump in HP, stand HP, Jab Dragon, which can be hard to land on some characters (e.g. Ryu).

    Once again Golden-Gunman you do deliver. What are your personal feelings about Fierce x RH hurricane, and knee bash when landing? Also what about juice kick then right when you land shoryu-reppa?
    It's kind of late in history to be coming up with real good ideas, luckily I have plenty of really bad fucking ideas.
  • Golden_GunmanGolden_Gunman Joined: Posts: 636
    I could see why you would want to go for the Knee Bash in that situation, but I would use the sweep. This is purely as a punishment combo, and so I would choose to do damage and get the knockdown, allowing me to throw a Jab Hadou to move forward and dictate the pace of the match. I tend to try to land the Knee Bash after a knock down, using meaty jump jab XX hurricane, and then varying between knee bash, short X2 to super or a dragon. But it's personal prefference really.

    As for Juice Kick then Shoryu Reppa, do you mean using the Juice kick as a cross-up or to evade a fireball? As a cross-up I would say no, you should always do short X 2 first to confirm it. However in other situations, like as I said to evade a fireball, then maybe, as your opponent may expect a Knee Bash. Still I think it's safer to use a Dragon instead and save the Super for when you know you can connect it guaranteed.

    Oh yeah I just thought of one other M.Tsun trick. If often does cr,short, stand short X jab dragon. You can use that as a hit confirm when you don't have Super. Just be careful because quite often the funky kick comes out by mistake.
  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853
    Seeing as you were kind enough to bump the thread, I'll add a few more things to this thread.

    Yeah please, do this is a great KEN thread. I am open to spread the Ken love.
    Am I hungry? Sure, I could eat...
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