Bison (dictator) Thread

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  • SweetJohnnyVSweetJohnnyV Streets ahead! Joined: Posts: 1,981 mod
    Yeah, great vid Giga! I don't suppose there's a higher-res version i could download somewhere is there?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    THX guys and THX to pez man for posting it, i was in 2 minds of doing it

    If you know a site where i can upload it too i will go ahead and do it.
  • King Of BumsKing Of Bums U like that? Joined: Posts: 157
    anyone know a good and consistent way of comboing the super (besides the anti air). And if you do, put down the entire input instead of something like st. short cr. forward xx super.
    Will RTSD no matter the game, and to hell with the consequences!!!
    Kof13: Kyo/Hwa/Kim Ultimate Mahvel 3: Spider-Man b/Spencer b/Doctor Doom b
    SCV: Asteroth
  • GipsonGipson ST/HDR and Alpha series enthusiast Joined: Posts: 61
    i would love to learn CE bison:





    range, power, easy to combo/dizzy...dangerous stuff.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    yah, I was actually trying to get info/strats for CE bison. I don't know his combos that well...can you correct me if I'm wrong?

    mk scissor kick, d.mp, s.mk?
    scissor kick, s.mk?

    I would really appreciate combos and lockdowns...

    I know that you can scissor kick, s.mp, s.mk, s.mk(whiff), then scissor kick into combo a whiffed attack, i think >.<

    EDIT:

    anyone know the command inputs for this combo?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    can anyone help w/ CE bison?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    There's a thread elsewhere on SRK for talking about Hyper Street Fighter 2/Anniversary Edition
    http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=71172


    Don't mention CE Bison anymore in the SSF2T sub-form, mmkay?
  • ToyRobotTerrorToyRobotTerror Magnificent Bastard Joined: Posts: 2,078
    Anyone want to fill in the matchups on the wiki. I'm starting to play st seriously and i need to know pretty much all match ups. If someone would take the time i would be most grateful.
    Fuck skrulls
  • ToyRobotTerrorToyRobotTerror Magnificent Bastard Joined: Posts: 2,078
    So what to do against blanka? Especially on wake up since vertical ball beats all cross up attempts?
    Fuck skrulls
  • ThisGuileKillYaThisGuileKillYa SSS++++ tier at exaggeration Joined: Posts: 2,627
    Yeah I'm also curious about the matchup vs Blanka. Tho on his wakeup that's not too hard. If vertical ball is messing with your plans, just bait and punish it.

    What I'm having trouble with is dealing with the jumping short into bite stuff. When I play my brother I can keep decent control of the match until he lands that one bite and then keeps them coming with the jumping ticks. A quick jump straight up short can repel it some of the time, but the whole scheme is hard to shake.

    Any ideas on thie situation and the matchup in general?
    USF4: Still soul searching. Thus far... Yun, Chun, and Akuma.
    UMvC3 mains: Morrigan Doom Vergil, Magneto Doom Ammy, Morrigan Doom Magneto
    UMvC3 fer funsies: Dante Vergil-or-Dorm Magneto, Wesker Sent Hawkeye, Dante-or-Magneto Doom Vergil, Wolvie Doom-or-Sent Akuma, Nova Doom Ammy, Magneto Doom-or-Sent Dante, Wesker Dorm Magneto, Dante Strange Magneto
    MvC3: Dante Magneto Sentinel
    MvC2: Spiral Cable Sentinel ST: Chunny Bunny. 3S: Akuma, Ryu, Dudley. Vampire: Fish, BBHood
    UMK3: Kabal, H.Smoke, Jax, almost everyone. Chess: 1. c4
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Ok I typed up a little Bison vs. Blanka.

    The most important thing is to sort out your anti-air. Bison's primary air defense is going air-to-air: climbing jump strong, vertical jump rh/strong, escaping jump rh, etc. This isn't his only option, however - two other choices to keep in mind:
    1) crouching fierce. If Blanka is eager to win an air-to-air clash with his jumping jab or short you can generally shut him down with this ground attack. You need a feel for the spacing and a read on your opponent, but crouching fierce is a good back-up anti-air.

    2) run away. Psycho crusher underneath him as he jumps in. Or, if he's trying to start a cross-up short trap use a slide kick to sneak away.


    In a ground battle standing medium kick is ok. Keep backing up - it's good to have a quick trigger finger on the scissor kicks and psycho crushers to catch him doing a slide punch or crouching roundhouse.

    Like TRT says, cross up medium kick loses to reversal vertical ball. You can beat that ball from the front though. The jump kick has to be a little bit high (i.e. a shade later than "well timed") to avoid a trade.

    Fierce psycho crusher seems to be a decent option. Blanka can block and counter with a crouching fierce but in my experience it's a little random. If you do one psycho crusher and he misses then another and he hits, the 6 ticks of life from the blocked crushers will add up to more damage than the one fierce punch.
  • ThisGuileKillYaThisGuileKillYa SSS++++ tier at exaggeration Joined: Posts: 2,627
    This is gonna be long, but fans of Devil's Reverse shouldn't mind...

    Earlier in this thread I had posted some rudimentary questions about the Devils Reverse (DR for typing ease). Since then I've been playing and practicing and reading and watching now I feel my use of DR has matured and improved.

    However... my new experiences have brought about some new questions. Hopefully this can spark some discussion about how you guys are utilizing this bad ass move, and how top players are utilizing it (for anyone who knows to explain.. Chen? Zass? nohoho? NKI? [Hey NKI, someone seemingly reliable once told me Bison was your 2ndary after Chun... if that's true why aren't you all over this thread? He said you were really good with the crusher-in-the-corner-corpse-hop-crossover...say that 3 times fast] ).

    One thing I noticed is that the strength of the punch button seems to dictate(no pun intended) the height of the initial flight. Unless this was some other variable at work and the buttons I used were coincidental. But it seemed to be so. it seems to me that the high one might be prefered when flying across the screen safely, but the lower one might be good for a (relatively) quick crossup. But then maybe hes too vulnerable close to the ground? This discovery has made me once again clueless about the DR, and I'm never sure which button to use. I think I had been using strong before when I didn't know it mattered, just for ease.

    Now my DR-noob approach has pretty much been to:

    a.) do the up-torward version after a fireball or triple strong juggle (as the YBH tech's said to do) or any other time I have the oppurtunity to try a crossup. Sometimes it seems to work beautifully, and other times it seems to fly me too far back towards my original direction and either un-crosses up or sometimes outright whiffs. Sometimes I'll also intentionally do this, pulling back, as a fake.

    or b.) do the up-back one to build meter and make it look like I'm gonna fly around and do something. But the more I DR, the less use I see for this up-back version, especially in light of everyone saying Bison wants to advance.

    So I guess, in a nutshell, I'm looking for anyone to explain specifically any of their more effective setups and/or attack tactics, or those of top Dictaster players. Which button are you/they using? Upback, upfwd, up? How far in that direction do you/they go before hitting P if at all? Then where are you/they ideally guiding him?

    I feel pretty strong in my use of the Head Stomp, so when that discussion rolls around I'd be happy to contribute some of my "and you are...?"-level tricks with it, but when it comes to DR, I now love it and see it's importance. But now that I know a lot more about it, I'm a whole new special kind of clueless. :)

    Thanx!
    USF4: Still soul searching. Thus far... Yun, Chun, and Akuma.
    UMvC3 mains: Morrigan Doom Vergil, Magneto Doom Ammy, Morrigan Doom Magneto
    UMvC3 fer funsies: Dante Vergil-or-Dorm Magneto, Wesker Sent Hawkeye, Dante-or-Magneto Doom Vergil, Wolvie Doom-or-Sent Akuma, Nova Doom Ammy, Magneto Doom-or-Sent Dante, Wesker Dorm Magneto, Dante Strange Magneto
    MvC3: Dante Magneto Sentinel
    MvC2: Spiral Cable Sentinel ST: Chunny Bunny. 3S: Akuma, Ryu, Dudley. Vampire: Fish, BBHood
    UMK3: Kabal, H.Smoke, Jax, almost everyone. Chess: 1. c4
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Anyone know the exactly number of frames that require the charge of psycocrusher or any other "tame" tecnic?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I was wondering why this situation happens and how I can prevent it.

    I'm Dictator and the opponent is a projectile thrower. We're between 1/2 screen and full screen apart. I am crouching, anticipating a fireball. They throw one, so I immediately do a headstomp as punishment. To my surprise, Bison just flies over them and lands behind them! Why am I not stomping?? Seems like a perfect time for a stomp to teach them that fireballs arent safe. no? I've tried this with the up and up/fwd stomps and both do this. What gives? thanks in advance.

    A little clarification on this would be nice.

    Getting the no-hit headstomp in the situation it was DESIGNED for, drives me fucking bananas.

    I do the same motion everytime, and everytime it hits, EXCEPT when they're throwing a FB. what gives.

    Does anyone know how to do the super high no-hit headstomp on purpose? The one where you just soar into the opposite upper corner? Would be awesome for getting out of corners.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I think is not possible with the head stomp but u can get a similar effect (is a less high jump) with a DR pointing up-away (to behind the opponent).
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    A little clarification on this would be nice.

    Getting the no-hit headstomp in the situation it was DESIGNED for, drives me fucking bananas.

    I do the same motion everytime, and everytime it hits, EXCEPT when they're throwing a FB. what gives.

    Does anyone know how to do the super high no-hit headstomp on purpose? The one where you just soar into the opposite upper corner? Would be awesome for getting out of corners.[/QUOTE

    If you perform the headstomp before the opp. goes into recovery frames then the headstomp will hit. Once the opp. starts to recover the headstomp won't hit because the headstomp is designed to hit on top of the hit box (I'm assuming this based on tests performed below); therefore, if the fireball has come out and the opp. goes into recovery the cpu doesn't "see" the opp. it misses. I used are the following situations to test my theory:

    1. Jump up with no attack; if you perform the headstomp before the opp. starts to descend the headstomp will hit, if the opp. starts to go into falling frames the headstomp misses.

    2. Jump with attack (ex. jab) the headstomp will hit as long as the opp. doesn't start to fall.

    3. Use claw and perform wall dive; as long as you attack before claw starts to fall (after hitting wall, obviously if you don't vega won't hit the wall and the headstomp misses). If claw starts to descend at all the headstomp misses.

    4. Perform srk (any strength), headstomp will hit (depending on hit box and frame you perform headstomp the hs will hit opp or opp hits you or both). If opp. goes into falling frames headstomp misses.

    Basically depending on your reaction time you should hit with the headstomp if you perform it as soon as possible (very difficult at full screen). I'll perform more tests tomorrow to make sure I cover all the bases.
    No freely available material is allowed on this site, no exceptions. - ptp
    SF2 Code v1.0: t s+ T++ r f++ g+ m+ s+ v++ M++ n++:-- o++
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    This is a good explanation however i think that to try to do the head stomp high jump is a little bit dangerous and i prefer to go to the no attack devil reverse.
  • orochizoolanderorochizoolander 2LANDER! Joined: Posts: 15,633
    I just started to use ST bison on more then a casual level so while i'm suire i'l find all the general strats here (especially the OP) n on the wiki i would very much appreciate if someone posted a matchup chart or breakdown of the matchups for ST bison.

    EDIT: can't find any vids of high level ST bison so any links would help.
    P. gorath said: seriously though, it really crystalized how much better mvc3 is than that game. "Oh look, commando vs. 3 characters...this will be excitin--zzzzzzzzzzzzzZZzzzz"
  • MizukiMizuki ayy lmao Joined: Posts: 3,200
    Theres tons of vids of Bison...
    Just look through here. http://www.youtube.com/user/superturbor
    www.twitter.com/thenipahhut
  • orochizoolanderorochizoolander 2LANDER! Joined: Posts: 15,633
    Thx.
    P. gorath said: seriously though, it really crystalized how much better mvc3 is than that game. "Oh look, commando vs. 3 characters...this will be excitin--zzzzzzzzzzzzzZZzzzz"
  • kid_krushkid_krush 黒人の名前はOMGsupafly!! Joined: Posts: 88
    boxer vs dictator what does bison have to stop boxer from rushing in and how is this match up fof dic would you guys consider dis to simalar to guile without sonic booms feel free to comment no negative shit for all you haters out there
    Guess no matter how hard we try.. Fate's gonna keep throwing us back together!
    cause I'm just watching a bad dream that I can't wake up from.
  • Professor JonesProfessor Jones Joined: Posts: 213
    You have to stop him before his punch comes out. Depending on the distance, you can use cr. mk, standing mk/ hk and scissors. Sometimes it's better to just block. The damage on the rush punch is quite big and it knocks you down, which is an especially bad situation for Dictator because of his lack of a decent reversal.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    just 1 thing to add to the vs blanka match up: when you use the fierce psycho crusher be sure that you can go through and continue on the other part of the stage to avoid a biting throw and have the possibility of eventually start again with another crusher when the enemy is still in the center of the stage.


    Merry Christmas to all!
  • EhondaEhonda Nothingness of Xband Joined: Posts: 399
    I was just reading through this thread and noticed that it was stated that Bisons jab crusher stops Hondas headbutts ...No it does not! its all a timing issue, its only that most Honda users do not see the jab crusher coming, which is why it always seems to hit the jab headbutt. If Honda waits just a little longer he can hit it. example

    Opening Rd. Bison does J.Psycho Crusher; Honda attempts JHB. The jab HB prolly wont work b/c Honda is anticipating a F crusher so Honda reacts a split second to early. But if Honda reacts a little later it will hit the J crusher.
    aka Nothingness from xband
    t+ T+ -r+ m+ s+ v+ M+ o+
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=n6J6aUfa2_8 (me playing ST and losing
    SUMO
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    no,if both special moves hit in their hitting frames the crusher win, u can also stop the honda super special in that way, i tested this at the game center. It is a question of hitting and non hitting frames of the jab crusher: you lose if the honda head hits you when you are in the first 18non hitting frame of the jab crusher (even if the first 3 frames are of invincibility so you can be hitten only for 15 frames). The same if the head hits you when you are in the final 16 non hitting frames of the jab crusher.
  • EhondaEhonda Nothingness of Xband Joined: Posts: 399
    Distance plays a big factor in this situation. If both Honda & Bison are far away from each other, it really does not matter. Its only when in close does this matter. Perfect Timing By Honda hits Bison everytime out of any crusher. but that is not realistic.
    aka Nothingness from xband
    t+ T+ -r+ m+ s+ v+ M+ o+
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=n6J6aUfa2_8 (me playing ST and losing
    SUMO
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Yes this is an application of what i was saying about hitting frames: the honda headbutt has a initial non hitting frames of 8,11,6 (jab,strong,fierce) and also in this frames is invicible so if both start close headbutt win the crusher because hits when the crusher is still in non hitting frames.
    If you are not close u can do the same waiting and hitting the crusher when i am in my final 16 non hitting frames. It requires good timing but is possible.
    Fortunatly for us the headbutt has a long final non hitting frames where i can do what i want.
  • ParryPerson.ParryPerson. It is done. Joined: Posts: 4,011
    Is LP Crusher safe on block versus some chars or all?
    Avatar by Muffin
    #LAFGC on EFNet

    <MrWizard> ive pre banned parry from evo south
    <[Parry]> This is because I ditched helping on the smash brackets isn't it
    <MrWizard> yep
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Do you mean when they parry the low crusher?
  • ParryPerson.ParryPerson. It is done. Joined: Posts: 4,011
    Do you mean when they parry the low crusher?

    :confused:
    Avatar by Muffin
    #LAFGC on EFNet

    <MrWizard> ive pre banned parry from evo south
    <[Parry]> This is because I ditched helping on the smash brackets isn't it
    <MrWizard> yep
  • lftrpllrlftrpllr Deceptively Mediocre Joined: Posts: 346
    Is LP Crusher safe on block versus some chars or all?

    I think it's safe versus most characters. I know Zangief can piledrive it from most distances after he blocks the 2 hits. I don't think Honda and T.Hawk have the range to grab you. The only other move I can think that may be fast enough to punish it is Blanka's ball, but I haven't tested it.

    -wes
  • ParryPerson.ParryPerson. It is done. Joined: Posts: 4,011
    I think it's safe versus most characters. I know Zangief can piledrive it from most distances after he blocks the 2 hits. I don't think Honda and T.Hawk have the range to grab you. The only other move I can think that may be fast enough to punish it is Blanka's ball, but I haven't tested it.

    -wes

    Yeah I've been messing with it, and gief can't SPD it at the very right distance but most times he can, blanka ball can punish it on block, but honda and hawk can't do jack about it.
    Avatar by Muffin
    #LAFGC on EFNet

    <MrWizard> ive pre banned parry from evo south
    <[Parry]> This is because I ditched helping on the smash brackets isn't it
    <MrWizard> yep
  • lftrpllrlftrpllr Deceptively Mediocre Joined: Posts: 346
    There are some ways to cross up with the Devil's reverse but I'm not really sure how to set them up. I think the hit box is wierd enough on that move so you can actually hit your opponent with your shoulder of your non-expected arm. In general, if you have the ability to cross up your opponent, yuo should really go for the: jumping forward kick, standing shrt kick x 2, low forward xx fierce crushaa for a dizzy (and a win). I use the Devil's reverse to bait out moves, build meter and empty jump throw. If you do the Devil's reverse and do nothing, it works at a sort of low jump where you can throw the second your toes touch the ground. It works as a good surprise tactic from time-to-time and you throw them so fast it almost looks like an airthrow.

    You can also get the same airthrow effect after your opponent locks the head stomp and you use the punch button follow up to steer yourself near your opponent (preferrably behind them). I played an dictator player at More in Japan that used this "air throw" tactic with great efficiency.

    Bison's Psycho Chrushaa corner cross up works like this. Knock down your opponent (throw, scissor kick, etc.), do a roundhouse kick slide to get near them and charge back at the same time, as they get up do a fierce PC and continue to hold towards (which will now start your charge the on the other side), now do standing short x 2, low forward xx fierce PC to your opponent's back.

    -wes


    Earlier in this thread I had posted some rudimentary questions about the Devils Reverse (DR for typing ease). Since then I've been playing and practicing and reading and watching now I feel my use of DR has matured and improved.

    However... my new experiences have brought about some new questions. Hopefully this can spark some discussion about how you guys are utilizing this bad ass move, and how top players are utilizing it (for anyone who knows to explain.. Chen? Zass? nohoho? NKI? [Hey NKI, someone seemingly reliable once told me Bison was your 2ndary after Chun... if that's true why aren't you all over this thread? He said you were really good with the crusher-in-the-corner-corpse-hop-crossover...say that 3 times fast] ).

    One thing I noticed is that the strength of the punch button seems to dictate(no pun intended) the height of the initial flight. Unless this was some other variable at work and the buttons I used were coincidental. But it seemed to be so. it seems to me that the high one might be prefered when flying across the screen safely, but the lower one might be good for a (relatively) quick crossup. But then maybe hes too vulnerable close to the ground? This discovery has made me once again clueless about the DR, and I'm never sure which button to use. I think I had been using strong before when I didn't know it mattered, just for ease.

    Now my DR-noob approach has pretty much been to:

    a.) do the up-torward version after a fireball or triple strong juggle (as the YBH tech's said to do) or any other time I have the oppurtunity to try a crossup. Sometimes it seems to work beautifully, and other times it seems to fly me too far back towards my original direction and either un-crosses up or sometimes outright whiffs. Sometimes I'll also intentionally do this, pulling back, as a fake.

    or b.) do the up-back one to build meter and make it look like I'm gonna fly around and do something. But the more I DR, the less use I see for this up-back version, especially in light of everyone saying Bison wants to advance.

    So I guess, in a nutshell, I'm looking for anyone to explain specifically any of their more effective setups and/or attack tactics, or those of top Dictaster players. Which button are you/they using? Upback, upfwd, up? How far in that direction do you/they go before hitting P if at all? Then where are you/they ideally guiding him?

    I feel pretty strong in my use of the Head Stomp, so when that discussion rolls around I'd be happy to contribute some of my "and you are...?"-level tricks with it, but when it comes to DR, I now love it and see it's importance. But now that I know a lot more about it, I'm a whole new special kind of clueless. :)

    Thanx!
  • ParryPerson.ParryPerson. It is done. Joined: Posts: 4,011
    For me, controlling the DR to actually HIT them on their wake up seems kinda hard, and I never see yuuvega doing this ever. Anyone got any tips?
    Avatar by Muffin
    #LAFGC on EFNet

    <MrWizard> ive pre banned parry from evo south
    <[Parry]> This is because I ditched helping on the smash brackets isn't it
    <MrWizard> yep
  • Professor JonesProfessor Jones Joined: Posts: 213
    I was just reading through this thread and noticed that it was stated that Bisons jab crusher stops Hondas headbutts ...No it does not! its all a timing issue, its only that most Honda users do not see the jab crusher coming, which is why it always seems to hit the jab headbutt. If Honda waits just a little longer he can hit it.

    You are absolutely right. But keep in mind that a Psycho Crusher will beat honda's headbutts (super included) cleanly if it hits after the invincible frames. I personally use it a lot against scrubby hondas who headbutt constantly and it works like a charm. Against intelligent players you don't have much occasions to use the psycho crusher for that.
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    For me, controlling the DR to actually HIT them on their wake up seems kinda hard, and I never see yuuvega doing this ever. Anyone got any tips?

    Use the properties of the DR to buy yourself more time to prepare for your attempt at a crossup. You have a lot of control while performing the DR; just learn how to control it. Once you get the DR timing down performing the DR as a meaty will become much easier. Take into account the size of the hitbox. Example: claw can do the same with his wall dive; however, his is easier because the hit box is much larger. IMO use it sparingly, if at all.
    No freely available material is allowed on this site, no exceptions. - ptp
    SF2 Code v1.0: t s+ T++ r f++ g+ m+ s+ v++ M++ n++:-- o++
  • ejdgeejdge Joined: Posts: 677
    Can Dic get out of tick throws without a super?
    Main: Ryu
    Alt: Guile
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    1) with a reversal throw if the other character has a throw range as or less than your

    2) with a knee press if the other player has a very bad timing

    3) you can try with a jab crusher because has the first 3 frames of invicibility but is quite impossible.

    The best one and the only one if u dont have the special is a reversal throw, but it is very difficult because you have only 1 frame to do.
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    Can Dic get out of tick throws without a super?

    The best way IMO is LP Psycho Crusher. It only has 3 frames of invincibility, but it lifts Dic off the ground. Example: Gief crosses up with body splash and goes for SPD; perform the P.C. as a reversal (as soon as Gief lands on the first frame). This counters the SPD attempt.

    Note: you'll have to swap the direction you're charging right as Gief crosses over you (fairly difficult).
    No freely available material is allowed on this site, no exceptions. - ptp
    SF2 Code v1.0: t s+ T++ r f++ g+ m+ s+ v++ M++ n++:-- o++
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    The lp crusher can function but always make me think a lot because, yes u can perform as a reversal and has 3 frames of invincibility but doesnt lift until 12th frame so you have 9 frames where u can be grabbed from zangief that after the body splash that is a air attack dont have recovery frame and also dont have start up frames for the spd because is a throw.

    I think this solution is very difficult and nearly impossible if the zangief player has a perfect timing.
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