SEIMITSU LS 56 01 vs. SANWA JLF-TP-8YT-SK JOYSTICK

Michael MonaghanMichael Monaghan Joined: Posts: 7
Ok, so I have a Madcatz TE Type S stick for 360/PC (click the link for exact model on Amazon where I bought it) and I'm not that happy with the Sanwa JLF joystick that comes with it. The throw on it is simply too far for my comfort zone and I read that the Seimitsu LS 56 has a much shorter throw. However, there isn't a lot of info that I could find which I trust so I figured I'd make a thread asking people who have experience their thoughts on the feel of those two sticks. Also, if you have an opinion on Happ or other Seimitsu models that is welcome as well.

Also, does anybody have a direct link to how to change the art on a Type S stick like mine? I freaking hate the hardened cardboard'ish top it has and the left corner actually likes to cut into my skin while I'm playing (poor design). So if anybody is feeling helpful I'd be greatly appreciate it :)
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Comments

  • jaquiojaquio Joined: Posts: 249
    I would sugest you the ls-32 or ls-40. Both are shorter than JLF. If you go with ls-32 you will feel a little faster joystick but if you want to feel a more effective difference (even shorter engagement / throw), then go with ls-40. For me, the 56 is ultra sensitive, not recommended for fighters unless you plays very moderate............it's awesome for other games though.
  • Michael MonaghanMichael Monaghan Joined: Posts: 7
    The little info I read was that the ls-32 was pretty similar to the Sanwa with a slightly shorter throw and I'm wanting something with a fairly major change. Maybe the ls-40 is the way to go. I just want to make sure I have a much shorter throw and I'd hate to undershoot what I want. Thanks for the response, much appreciated!
  • jaquiojaquio Joined: Posts: 249
    Then go with ls-40 with no worries, the stick is really short. A shorter stick than ls-40 would be non-functional for fighters.
  • THEQUEENOFLOVEHDTHEQUEENOFLOVEHD I expose frauds :) Joined: Posts: 1,006
    LS-56 has a short throw, but the tension is the stiffest out of all the Sanwa and Seimitsu parts. Also, if you install it in your TE it'll sit a few mm lower than a Sanwa JLF. You will need an MS mounting plate
    How's about a nice hug? :3
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  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,249 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    i havent tried the ls-40 yet, but i've literally tried every other seimitsu stick out in the market.

    i can honestly say that the ls-56 is by far the seimitsu stick out there for fighters. the throw is small, stick is a bit stiffer compared to the sanwa jlf or any japanese sticks. it goes back into neutral really quick so its really good for games like marvel, compared to the sanwa jlf.

    ls-32 is for an acquired taste. either people love it or hate it, however, it works really well for shmups.
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

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  • Michael MonaghanMichael Monaghan Joined: Posts: 7
    Well, the main two games I play right now are UMvC3 and AE (soon 2012). My main problem is that the sanwa throw is so long and it feels like it takes forever for it to go back to neutral and it really screws with the timing. I think I will try the ls-56, no disrespect Jaquio and thanks for the comments. It just seems like I need to go with my gut on this and as I said I'd rather not undershoot and prefer overshooting. And at worst all I'd have to do is order an ls-40 which is not a big deal for me. I'll update this thread when I get the ls-56 and get some game time in with it. It would be nice if there was a sticky for something like this as it is pretty useful information.
  • jaquiojaquio Joined: Posts: 249
    Sure, no problem! Let me know if you like your new stick.
  • AmerikaAmerika Something witty here. Joined: Posts: 422
    Ok, so I got my Seimitsu LS-56 today and got everything installed and working after a quick issue with up/left/right not working (apparently you have to plug it in upside down compared to the Sanwa stick) and I put in quite a few hours with it. I also got a bat top to go with it instead of using the ball.

    I must say I absolutely freaking love it. I haven't ran into the problems you mentioned I may have Jaquio with the resistance as it feels pretty much perfect. Before where it felt like the Sanwa had a lot of dead space between actuation which threw me off quite a bit there is now none. With the Sanwa I had issues with consistently dashing as well and dashes were not coming out consistently when I wanted them. With the LS-56 they come out every time without fail with barely a thought or any effort. My combo's that require FADC went through the roof in regards to consistency in the first few minutes. I can also more easily do even simple things like FP into fireball consistently over and over. And in Oni's case I can now easily FP into fireball FADC into DP which I could almost never consistently pull off.

    So yeah, I love it. I still may pick up an ls-40 and try it out just to see how it feels by comparison but right now the 56 seems perfect (especially with the bat top). Everything comes out when I think it should since there isn't any dead zone like with the Sanwa.

    Thanks again for the comments everyone, much appreciated as always.
  • jaquiojaquio Joined: Posts: 249
    Good to know, man!! The battop actually decreases the spring resistance, it felt right because ls-56 is very stiff. So, battop in JLF feels even more loose. Also, the battop is helping you to be a little more precise depending your grip.....the balltop is large, battop is a little thinner......it seems you have a nice combo (ls-56 + battop) that works perfectly for you.

    I think the ls-40 has perfect resistance with balltop, so just keep ls-56 if you are that happy with it ;)
  • Pr0ph3t85Pr0ph3t85 Joined: Posts: 53
    I would sugest you the ls-32 or ls-40. Both are shorter than JLF. If you go with ls-32 you will feel a little faster joystick but if you want to feel a more effective difference (even shorter engagement / throw), then go with ls-40. For me, the 56 is ultra sensitive, not recommended for fighters unless you plays very moderate............it's awesome for other games though.

    According to this site, http://www.kowal.itcom.pl/ArcadeParts_pliki/artZESen.htm
    the engage and throw distance between ls 40 and ls 56 is identical, so i think there isnt any difference in sensitivity.
    I have the ls 56 because i thought, that the small engage distance will improve my game in making me faster. But that is actually not the case!
    The Problem is, whenever u want do dash, or make a FADC combo, it happens quite easy, that u hit on of the diagonals, instead of straight forward or backwards, so the "dash" does not comes out. This ofc is caused by the small engage distance. Cause of that, really have to concentrate on every input. If u try to be fast, so the input is a little bit sloppy, there is a huge possibility to land on the diagonals.
    This is ofc effectively prevented by the octogonal gate, but I prefer square gates very much. If you want to play the LS 56 with an octogate, I highly recommend the stick, I think there isn't a better octogate on the market, ofc this is all personal taste, but many will agree.

    Another thing that I noticed. The engage distance of the stick is small. Because of this, the engage zone is quite big (the difference between throw and engage distance). At first view, there are no negative points to that.
    But I experienced, that when you try to qcf, qcf PPP or any other ultra. Especially after DP, FADC, when u dont have much time, the ultra will not come out.
    This is caused by the big engage zone of df or db in relation to just f or b.
    U can ofc input the ultra like that: d, df, d, df, f + PPP. But because of the big engage zone of df, you often stay on df making it: d, df, d, df * PPP (Or Even d, df, ..., df. means u even dont hit the down direction properly) -> The ultra does not come out. So u can ofc try to input: d, df, d, df, f, uf + PPP which will work ofc, evry time.
    But when u do this, u sacrafice speed. And the speed was for me the reason for buying the ls56, actually, it did not pay off.

    I ordered a sanwa JLF a view days back and it did arrive. I yet hadnt the time to install it, I anyway plan to make a second stick with it, which will take some time.
    But by just holding the stick, I can say, that it will probably not have any of these problems mentioned above, perhaps the stick will has his own problems ofc, I cant say yet, anyway you have to deal with it.
    But the motion is much smoother and i actually cant imagine, why people say, they have problems with dashes on the sanwa. Ofc the spring is much lighter, but to counter that, the microswitches are a lot harder, and so by themselves should push the stick to neutral position very fast ! (thx to the big dead zone, caused by the bigger engage distance). So i imagine, that it would be actually easier to dash, cause u dont need to have the stick in absolutely neutral position after the first forward (which is the case with the ls56, which has nearly no deadspace).
    As i said, i havent yet played on the sanwa, so its just theorie, but by itself it feels quite good.

    I will post more experiences, after my second stick is ready.
    In the end, it is ofc all personal preferences. I can do any moves on any stick. I think, any stick has its strong and weak moments, u just have to know them and must adjust. Its a compromise. But i think, I can get along a little ! better with the sanwa (overall), at least for street fighter 4.

    I had wrote more then I wanted :D . U can often see new Threads of people, asking for sanwa vs seimitsu or big vs small throw. I think, in general it makes not a "big" difference, as long as u are used to the stick. And i often read, that a small engage distance is so much better or faster. For me, as mentioned, its absolutely not the case. A stick does not make the player.

    Perhaps someone has made equal experiences with small engage distances?
  • WhinetteWhinette wa~ Joined: Posts: 143
    I have both stick and I use both. ls-56 is good, but honestly, not adapted to fighters. My hand hurts after 1h or so when using it. It does wonder in shmup on the other hand, where jlf is lacking in my opinion.
  • AriesnoAriesno Seimitsu's warrior Joined: Posts: 407
    i prefer ls-56 than jlf...it's more faster et precise.but since some week i play whith ls-58 with new ss-plate(work with ls-56),and it's my faforite now.
    1.jpg
  • IronknightIronknight Joined: Posts: 106
    Ls-56 is fantastic with a octagonal gate its my favorite seimitsu stick, and perfect with Guilty Gear and KOF. I also had problems with dashing with a sanwa JLF originally because it feels like your waiting on the stick longer then you should, with a ls56 their is no waiting everything is instant but you have to be more precise with your movements . JLF is the best stick with a square gate in my op its the smoothest and very responsive but can feel slow at times.
  • AmerikaAmerika Something witty here. Joined: Posts: 422
    Before I read this tonight I had already ordered an Octagonal gate from FA.com since I ran one on my JLF and loved it. The default setup of the LS-56 works amazingly well as almost all of my consistency issues went byebye for quite a few combos but the chance to error with the short throw on diagonals is a bit higher than a JLF. I was thinking the 8way restrictor would fix that and it sounds like it may :)
  • AmerikaAmerika Something witty here. Joined: Posts: 422
    Yup, just spent a few hours playing and the 8way restricor on the LS-56 is the most amazing thing I've ever played with. My inputs are spot on perfect now. Like, everything I couldn't do before I can now do with ease. If anybody else is having similar problems to what I have (Sanwa JLF feeling a bit slow to respond) then I highly recommend going with an LS-56 + 8 way restrictor. The diagonals were the only issues I had with the default LS-56 with the square gate and the 8way lets you feel every click which fixes that.

    So yeah, if you want a stick with a much shorter throw than a Sanwa and want to make sure it's accurate, pick up the pieces I got. You won't regret it IMO.
  • FaceMeAndBeBrokenFaceMeAndBeBroken FUCK JAPANESE STICKS Joined: Posts: 3,518
    i had an ls 56 with a custom circle gate, and EVEN stiffer spring than stock. Arms started burning after 30 minutes...but it was amazing until then. lol.
    XBL/PSN DiegoElFuego

    Will play
    (PS4): KOF14, Skullgirls, Blasterz, DBXV2
    (360): MVC2, MVC:O
    (XB1): Everything else non FG's
  • RoboKrikitRoboKrikit nuclear Joined: Posts: 1,943
    LS-56 with an octagonal gate is what I usually recommend for people looking for something more American/Happ/iL in feel, while fitting easily into a TE or HRAP. It's not the same, but it gets you in the ballpark and has its own flavor. I feel that it's too tight and error prone and prefer the more forgiving throw of the JLF or LS-32 for fighting games, but it's good if that is what you are after.
  • wip3outguy7wip3outguy7 Cyberpunk Joined: Posts: 141
    Last summer I swapped the LS-32 in my HRAP for an LS-40 to play shmups and platformers. The LS-40 is probably the best stock shmup stick I have played on, so far. Very short engage. The only downside is that it is very unforgiving for FGs. I gave the LS-40 a couple of weeks when I got KoF XIII and then I ended up swapping the LS-32 back in.
  • jaquiojaquio Joined: Posts: 249
    The only downside is that it is very unforgiving for FGs.
    What you mean by that?
  • wip3outguy7wip3outguy7 Cyberpunk Joined: Posts: 141
    What you mean by that?
    For the LS-40 the distance between neutral and engage was too short. The diagonals were too close. It was very easy for me to overshoot into a diagonal or engage when I didn't intend to. Understand that I'm in my mid 30s with carpal tunnel syndrome so your mileage may vary. Putting the LS-32 back in instantly felt better for FGs.

    I was actually swapping parts between the two tonight and I ended up with the LS-40 body + shaft and the LS-32 PCB. I'm not sure if it's just the power of suggestion, but this feels great. Good throw and engage. Specials in XIII felt more competent. I fired up Shock Troopers and it felt almost as quick as a stock LS-40.
  • jaquiojaquio Joined: Posts: 249
    Hmm, i see what you saying, but anyway, I don't understand how the LS-32-01 PCB could fit on the LS-40 body. I already tried that.
  • wip3outguy7wip3outguy7 Cyberpunk Joined: Posts: 141
    It actually fit pretty well. I will try to get some pictures.
  • jaquiojaquio Joined: Posts: 249
    It actually fit pretty well. I will try to get some pictures.
    You're right, i did it again..........the PCB really fits well on the LS-40 body, but i believe what makes the difference about engagement / throw is the pivot design since the switches and restrictor distances between each other are the same. So, i think changing only the PCB wouldn't make a big difference.

    Also, using all LS-32 parts (excepct restrictor) on the LS-40 body results in a great feel, the only issue is that it makes a even shorter joystick shaft due LS-32 pivot placed on a little more deeper hole (ls40 body) but is possible to feel more throw immediately. If you modify the LS-40 pivot to fit LS-32 shaft on it, you fix that issue (shorter shaft) but the effect is nothing more than a sturdy LS-40, engagement / throw also the same.

    That's what i have learned so far swapping parts. =)
  • wip3outguy7wip3outguy7 Cyberpunk Joined: Posts: 141
    Ahh. I guess I will just chalk the difference in feel up to my LS-32 PCB being more broken in.
  • AmerikaAmerika Something witty here. Joined: Posts: 422
    For the LS-40 the distance between neutral and engage was too short. The diagonals were too close. It was very easy for me to overshoot into a diagonal or engage when I didn't intend to. Understand that I'm in my mid 30s with carpal tunnel syndrome so your mileage may vary. Putting the LS-32 back in instantly felt better for FGs.

    I was actually swapping parts between the two tonight and I ended up with the LS-40 body + shaft and the LS-32 PCB. I'm not sure if it's just the power of suggestion, but this feels great. Good throw and engage. Specials in XIII felt more competent. I fired up Shock Troopers and it felt almost as quick as a stock LS-40.

    I had the same problems with diagonals with the LS-56 but the 8 way/circle restrictor fixed that entirely. It's now pretty much impossible for me to overshoot and I get quicker inputs since the throw is shorter and shorter to reset back to neutral. But, as you said, everyone will have a different experience so you just go with what feels good. And in a situation like this where most lack personal experience you sort of have to go off of what others have written and see if it maybe fits what you think you'd like.

    Personally, I'd love to see a thread/sticky that has all the common joysticks listed and then a few opinions written about each one regarding their feel, throw distance, force required, height, potential issues and different restrictors available. Like, the differences between the typical sanwa, sanwa with 8way, ls-32, 40 and 56, Happ, optical sticks etc. etc. That information seems to be in short supply sadly.
  • kubebotkubebot Large Member Joined: Posts: 1,270
    Personally, I'd love to see a thread/sticky that has all the common joysticks listed and then a few opinions written about each one regarding their feels, throw distance, force required, potential issues and different restrictors available. Like, the differences between the typical sanwa, sanwa with 8way, ls-32, 40 and 56, Happ, optical sticks etc. etc. That information seems to be in short supply sadly.
    Yep, that's how it starts....you get stick curious. Once you get it in your head, you gotta check em all out.
    And that's why I have a lot of sticks :P
    Own most of them, except for LS-55 and the new LS-58 (which is basically feel wise is a 56 with a lighter spring.)

    Fun thing about having lots of sticks is swapping parts, kinda like you guys mentioned with the LS-32 & 40.
    Like Project LS-36

    In that thread one guy had an awesome idea for fixing the LS-32 pivot popping issue that bothers some (like me)

    Oh yeah this might help a little, still doesn't scratch the itch of holding it and better yet testing it out during a playtest.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/Akihabarashopdotjp

    Good read for general knowledge of parts:
    http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/joystick_components.html
  • emphaticemphatic Joined: Posts: 478
    Part swapping is the best part of my day. I waiting, actually for a brand new JLF (never had a new one, only busted ones) and an LS-56. I need to find out more about them. :)

    BTW, anyone know if any other Seimitsu sticks have parts that will fit the LS-30 (rotary stick)? I have a couple of these, but they'll need new springs, switches and maybe even actuators. If I figure it out, I'll make a small tutorial for sure.
    I love shmups and never play fighting games.
    Here's my Guwange stick: http://www.emphatic.se/?p=197
  • Pr0ph3t85Pr0ph3t85 Joined: Posts: 53
    There now passed a little time after my post in this thread.
    Actually I did a lot of modding. I changed the height of the joystick (distance from the top of the pannel to the bottom of the balltop) to 23 mm (slagcoin says, its the standard for japanese sticks) with some ring washers (which works very! good, its possible to adjust the height in mm scale). I got used to the height very fast (a matter of minutes lol) and actually am quite content with the LS - 56 and the standard square gate.
    But I wanted to have some more fun with modding and trying out new equipment, so I purchased a LS - 32 and gave it a shot. What can I say.... Really its the worst stick I ever played on, I cant really understand his good reputation. I knew of the pivot jumping problem while activating the switches and pressing against the restrictor gate, but I always thought that these people must ride the gate unnecessary hard with whole arm motions or some rage stuff. But thats not the case, the stick is "lifting" with, I would say moderate play, I'm really not unnecessary hard on it (It's especially noticable when you hold down/back to block, the whole shaft ist lifting a bit, it feels unteady). It's not a big deal, it's not a hindrance to the motion and the stick is fine in the other terms, but it feels so damn cheap!!! For me it's qlearly some kind of contruction error and definitely not a thing I would have imagined from "quality made in Japan". I mean not even the worst chinese copys in some cheap sticks feel that unsteady. Now I have tried it out and sending it back to the shop, so no money wasted. It's just for principle, I'm not going to swap the stock chinese parts for quality japanese arcade parts for this cheap constructional error, it's like a joke. I will try out the JLF in the future, still have it laying down at home for weeks now, but no time to finish the arcade stick building project yet.
    Swapped the LS - 32 for the 56 again and am totally happy with it, I don't hope that the JLF is the next disappointment (But the jlf feels much more sturdy than the ls 32 and the motion is stable).
    I will definitely try a LS 58 spring for the LS 56 soon.
  • kevin_msukevin_msu Joined: Posts: 107
    i prefer the LS. its firmer.... clickier.
  • Kara KommandoKara Kommando 1 framin' it Joined: Posts: 53
    edited July 2013
    LS-56 has a short throw, but the tension is the stiffest out of all the Sanwa and Seimitsu parts. Also, if you install it in your TE it'll sit a few mm lower than a Sanwa JLF. You will need an MS mounting plate

    Lots of good info, you guys answered a lot of my Q's. My stock TE stick is worn out and wobbly, even when tightened down securely... but oddly enough has developed a stiffness to it that I really prefer, but everyone who picks up my stick says its too stiff and implies thats not typical of a Sanwa. I dont like the sticks that move when you breathe on them, hard to know where ur at on teh axis! Ok so Im definitely going with the ls56 I've been using a square gate but a couple of you have really praised the octo... anyone else have an opinion on square vs octo with the ls56? Thanks guys... I cant wait to tinker around w this stuff
  • Kara KommandoKara Kommando 1 framin' it Joined: Posts: 53
    great info thnx!
  • unaigalderunaigalder Joined: Posts: 81
    Ariesno wrote: »
    i prefer ls-56 than jlf...it's more faster et precise.but since some week i play whith ls-58 with new ss-plate(work with ls-56),and it's my faforite now.
    1.jpg
    This stick fits in Qanba? is This model Seimitsu LS-56-01 or LS-58-01?
  • rbuniaorbuniao Joined: Posts: 184
    unaigalder wrote: »
    Ariesno wrote: »
    i prefer ls-56 than jlf...it's more faster et precise.but since some week i play whith ls-58 with new ss-plate(work with ls-56),and it's my faforite now.
    1.jpg
    This stick fits in Qanba? is This model Seimitsu LS-56-01 or LS-58-01?



    Also, if you're going to get a Seimitsu stick on the Qanba it's best to make sure you have the SE plate mounted on them

    https://focusattack.com/seimitsu-ls-58-se-flat-mounting-plate-p-40/
  • jopamojopamo Stuck in Silly-con Valley Joined: Posts: 1,309
    edited April 21
    Holy moly dude. 2013? This couldn't have been asked (what is the difference between LS-56 and LS-58? So does this S-plate fit Qanba sticks?) in the Q&A thread?

    A LS-58 is a LS-56 with less spring tension. To which Qanba stick are you referring?
  • unaigalderunaigalder Joined: Posts: 81
    Qanba Q1. Other Dude.
    What´s difference is there betwen Seimitsu LS-40 and LS-56?
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 24,284
    unaigalder wrote: »
    Qanba Q1. Other Dude.
    What´s difference is there betwen Seimitsu LS-40 and LS-56?

    That like asking whats the difference between a Sanwa JLW and a JLF.

    The Seimitsu LS-40 is a all around all purpose Joystick, its been compared to a Sanwa JLW in terms of feel and just by coincidence some of there parts are swappable.
    See http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/194647/ls-40-and-jlw-mods-thread-jlw-01-and-jl-40w-featured/p1 for more on that

    The LS-40 has a short throw and rather decent resistance on the string. Not too strong but it does not give too easily.
    The construction on the LS-40 is beefy but not over-engineered.

    The LS-56 is obviously smaller, more compact, even shorter throw and engage than the LS-40. Great for installations that have cramp or tight spaces inside the stick.
    The LS-56 is so small that some people don't recommend the joystick at all for fighters. It's an accurate joystick when it comes to execution, for some too accurate as their is no forgiving bad execution like you have with other joysticks. The LS-56 is loved by many shmup players who likes/ wants that super sensitive accuracy.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • unaigalderunaigalder Joined: Posts: 81
    In this page http://www.kowal.itcom.pl/ArcadeParts_pliki/artZESen.htm only difference in force engage LS-40 170g and LS-56 207,5g force engage.
    I think that the stick that i need LS-56 hate JLF the gate and the engage is very long and it´s not enought sensitive for me.
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 24,284
    unaigalder wrote: »
    In this page http://www.kowal.itcom.pl/ArcadeParts_pliki/artZESen.htm only difference in force engage LS-40 170g and LS-56 207,5g force engage.
    I think that the stick that i need LS-56 hate JLF the gate and the engage is very long and it´s not enough sensitive for me.

    Trust me the LS-56 is less forgiving on execution than the LS-40.
    For the LS-56 your execution has to be perfect for fighters

    JLF is the most forgiving with bad execution.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • unaigalderunaigalder Joined: Posts: 81
    edited April 27
    https://www.akishop.jp/joystick-parts/104-ls-56-round-gate.html##
    This and Octogate for Seimitsu LS-56 or Roundgate?
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 24,284
    octo-gate is a quick way to separate noobs from their money
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
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