The (Mod-Approved) Skullgirls Tier/Theory Discussion Thread.

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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 59,215 mod
    once again you are dealing in abstracts, at this point in time no one is playing any character near there full potential... however people ARE playing cere CLOSER to her full potential.... cause shes a grappler. grapplers are simple at the onset of games and get worse as time goes on. the tier list RIGHT NOW, LIVE AS YOU ARE READING THIS.. IS REFLECTING THAT. the tier list is doing its job.

    at this point you are just doing a lower form of trolling, i dont really think you mean to, but YOU ARE OFF TOPIC.

    the thread has been approved, if you have issue take it up with a mod please, or i will ask them to deal with you. your question has been answered so please let us who want to be here, continue on topic. :)

    -dime

    Yeah this issue will clear up over time any way as people learn more and get better at the game.

    The way things are going tiers will probably be closer than they are in Marvel 3 which is really good. If everybody is scary and has something for something...everybody can win on the right team. Unless somebody gets some tactic that shuts down the entire other cast it should be good to go.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • FatsFats Supersonic Joined: Posts: 114
    Solo teams are terrible. Cere/Double is my top tier pick right now, followed by Val/Fil

    This guy.. idkk man sounds familiar.
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  • xesxes Evil Forrest Gump Joined: Posts: 2,528
    Its still my belief that triple teams will be the strongest by far, folks think doubles will stay popular?

    Sent from my Radar 4G using Board Express
  • Jon SlaytonJon Slayton Consistently Inconsistent Joined: Posts: 4,306
    A lot of who's good an who's not is really hard to say at this point in time. IMO though I think Valentine may be the weakest out of all of them. She doesn't have many tools to survive being rushed down other than her counter and her assists are down right terrible. She has good pokes and that's about it.

    I think Peacock has a lot of really good tools and while some of her BNBs seem really execution heavy, once people get those down, she'll be pretty scary in close and from afar. Item drop is basically a "fuck you don't press buttons" move that can create some pretty scary situations. She's got the tools for self assisted left right cross ups, she can zone and run away pretty hard, and she has one of the best supers in the game. She seems a little weak in the poke department though.

    Double feels super basic but I think she probably needs assists or meter to be scary. Still, her assist is really nice and bionic car can blow through a lot of shit on reaction. Just at neutral, she doesn't feel very threatening to me.

    Painwheel as far as options has soooo much. Her pressure is just terrifying, she's got good mobility, and some really nice supers. Death crawl does retarded damage in DHCs and you can combo into hatred install from something like parasoul's sniper super and then get unscaled retard damage for free. Definitely IMO one of the strongest in the game just looking at options.

    Ms. Fortune has a ton of potential too but I doubt we'll see much of it for a long while.
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  • OMG its a duckOMG its a duck Bruh I'm in down bad bruh Joined: Posts: 1,920
    snip


    Agree on pretty much everything, except that Ms. Fortune is already using at least some of her potential and kicking some ass. Just wanna add a character I'm familiar with.

    Filia looks kinda not great sadly. Her mix-up game is pretty gdlk IMO second only to Painwheel, but her damage is just so low without meter, and her mobility is ok with repeated IADs, but her pokes are kinda meh. Her assists do look ok though, but not on the big dumb assist level of Cerecopter or Double Butt.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 59,215 mod
    Its still my belief that triple teams will be the strongest by far, folks think doubles will stay popular?

    Sent from my Radar 4G using Board Express

    Doubles where both characters provide strong assists will be strong and legitimate for most of the games life I see. Doubles with one power assist are alright but I don't see it beating down an optimized 3 character team in the future.

    Doubles will stay popular simply because they're easier to use but you still get access to the many game mechanics that you do not if you only use one character.
    A lot of who's good an who's not is really hard to say at this point in time. IMO though I think Valentine may be the weakest out of all of them. She doesn't have many tools to survive being rushed down other than her counter and her assists are down right terrible. She has good pokes and that's about it.

    I think Peacock has a lot of really good tools and while some of her BNBs seem really execution heavy, once people get those down, she'll be pretty scary in close and from afar. Item drop is basically a "fuck you don't press buttons" move that can create some pretty scary situations. She's got the tools for self assisted left right cross ups, she can zone and run away pretty hard, and she has one of the best supers in the game. She seems a little weak in the poke department though.

    Double feels super basic but I think she probably needs assists or meter to be scary. Still, her assist is really nice and bionic car can blow through a lot of shit on reaction. Just at neutral, she doesn't feel very threatening to me.

    Painwheel as far as options has soooo much. Her pressure is just terrifying, she's got good mobility, and some really nice supers. Death crawl does retarded damage in DHCs and you can combo into hatred install from something like parasoul's sniper super and then get unscaled retard damage for free. Definitely IMO one of the strongest in the game just looking at options.

    Ms. Fortune has a ton of potential too but I doubt we'll see much of it for a long while.


    Yeah Valentine can be annoying to fight because she's an offensive oriented character with normals that are perfect for zoning and bullying. She's otherwise being pretty overrated IMO ATM. I wanted a nice invincible AA assist so I picked up Napalm Pillar before the game came out. Man...does Valentine need that kind of assist if she isn't sitting on 3 or more meters.

    Double definitely seems like one of the Dr.Doom types of the game. Very solid on point but some other point character is going to get even more mileage out of the booty assist. Painwheel doesn't give a fuck about the booty assist but most other characters can tend to have trouble with it if it's placed well.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • AabraAabra Joined: Posts: 130
    Peacock with Double's HK Bomber assist is IMHO the strongest team right now. I don't think it's going to stay the best - but as a bare minimum you absolutely need to have a legitimate strategy for how you plan on dealing with it. If you've never fought against it before then you're pretty much guaranteed to lose the first couple rounds while you adjust and say wtf.
  • Age_of_FoolsAge_of_Fools Joined: Posts: 706
    It's premature to say, but I think Duos will have the advantage over Trios because of the potential for TOD combos. If a Trio could possibly have a kill combo against a Duo character, it would be quite meter intensive and likely leave the team order out of whack. I don't know of a Duo with a TOD combo but I can see it being possible if assists, tags, both characters' loops and supers are used. That advantage is then compounded by the risks of an incoming mixup working.
    Beginner's Guide to Cerebella
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  • FulaaniFulaani Of terrorist descent Joined: Posts: 2,555
    My problem isn't tier lists, tier lists are helpful. But tier lists are made with the fact that the characters are being played at the highest level/ their full potential.
    the full potential we know now.
    zoning took an indefinite hiatus
  • MacarrattiMacarratti Joined: Posts: 1,421
    While I agree that Solos have a slight disadvantage, I dont think they're terribad like some people say.

    almost every character has tools for fighting their hard counters, and while solos have worse matchups, they also have a level of damage that's really hard to ignore.

    like, Solobella has a tough time against zoning teams. it's a traditional Grappler vs. zoner battle there, plain and simple. But Cere has great mobility (long dash, double jump, air dash w/ a high priority attack attached, super armor command dash, Berserker slash, rush punches w/ armor). She also has her level 3 which is good against a zoner when they slip up, AND grants an OTG combo on hit. If cere times that shit right against an assist happy player, the opponent could eat one HELL of a happy birthday. So I feel the idea that solobella simply CANNOT compete with zoning teams a bit suspect (but hey, the game is young, so i could be easily proved wrong in time).

    Solobella, heck any solo for that matter, will have to work their ass off in fights against well designed teams, thats without a doubt. But when you can do 50-85% damage easily in one combo,sometimes without minimal meter, the potential for comebacks or for just STEAMROLLING when you have the momentum is nothing to scoff at. Teams NEED to be good at fighting off solos or else they would get their shit rocked way too easy. I think the balance between the ratios is pretty good at this point.

    (I say this as a Solobella player, so take this with a grain of salt XD)
  • FirebrandedFirebranded Aerial Ace Joined: Posts: 3,817
    I just wanna say thanks guys for turning this thread around :)

    Also, do you think solo Fortune is a good match-up for solo cerebella? Fortune has awesome pokes, fiber upper, and some great aerials.
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  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,171
    stuff

    I've seen bionic car miss... If they SJ or painwheel flies really high, the car misses them.
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  • Jon SlaytonJon Slayton Consistently Inconsistent Joined: Posts: 4,306
    Since I saw them mentioned, is cerecopter invincible as an assist like the butt bomber? What about Fortune's Fiber upper?

    I cannot find a good assist for fortune other than like... standing medium kick lol.
    "You know that sinking feeling when Zero hits you?" - MTP

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  • ReioumuReioumu Play Arcana Heart Joined: Posts: 292
    Honestly, I don't think solo characters are the way to go. If a character has a weakness, one way of (sorta) making up for it is with an assist that helps you against said problem.
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  • ZageZage Joined: Posts: 43

    First off, do you notice how he's calling other people's opinions about the game bullshit, and then goes on to give his own? Secondly, he goes on to talk about how high-level play doesn't exist yet, and that tier lists are based specifically off of peak level abilities. These are key notes, so keep them handy as we move.

    I can't take anyone seriously who doesn't have Cere in top three. That's blatantly IGNORING the current metagame. Most people have her in her own tier. XD
    Wow. This is just more disregard for everything and everyone around you.

    ?????????????

    This is how you call someone out for ignoring everyone elses opinion and turning around and doing the exact same thing, notice how he jumps on someone for disagreeing with him. This is why I hate these threads. If you're going to circle jerk your main, atleast do it in a way that doesn't make you look like a hypocritical asshole.

    Lol @ day 5 Metagame.

    Stay free.
  • FoxstepCEOFoxstepCEO PSN - JohnnyMastah Joined: Posts: 788
    My personal thoughts are that:

    I don't think the TIERS are going to be main discussion point in this game, but rather MATCHUPS. Here's my reason why.

    At the moment, there's only 10 characters, and they're all pretty unique in their own way. So there's not really a character that just flat-out 'does everything better' than someone else. They may be better in one area, the other excels in another, etc etc.

    For example, in MvC2, Magneto is considered one of the top 4, but seems to struggle against a Strider-work/Duc Do-like team when Mag's is on point, and neither Spiral nor Strider are as high. Again, I think matchups will be the more important discussion.

    Although that being said, I am curious as to how the game evolves/devolves. I got some good offline play for the first time, and it was very fun, educational and downright soul-crushing. I played against a very good Solo-Cere, and all my fears about her came to life, with a few added nightmares to boot. I know MikeZ loves dem grapple characters, but at the moment, it does seem that giving a character access to MONSTROUS command grab range/damage, with the access of Hammerfall-like mobility with armor (Bullrush), VERY viable anti-airs, extremely effortless damage and incredibly reliable normals, it becomes difficult for me to imagine her having much to worry about, as she truly has an answer for everything, and it HURTS.

    Granted, I'm not saying Cere's -broke- by any means, but I see her not only having a much -easier- time plowing people due to her incredible ability to be a threat at -all- ranges, but just discouraging reasons to use others because she is so amazing for so little investment. Thankfully this is SUPER early and the discovery process is always fun and exciting. The best everyone can do is focus on their mains/teams, play as much as you can, and try to study and analyze any roadbump matchups you run into. So far I'm really enjoying the game, and thanks to MikeZ and crew for everything.


    tl;dr version - Matchups > Tiers. I hate Cere.
  • DiemmeDiemme LORD OF THE GLITCH. Joined: Posts: 301
    My personal thoughts are that:

    I don't think the TIERS are going to be main discussion point in this game, but rather MATCHUPS. Here's my reason why.

    At the moment, there's only 10 characters, and they're all pretty unique in their own way. So there's not really a character that just flat-out 'does everything better' than someone else. They may be better in one area, the other excels in another, etc etc.

    For example, in MvC2, Magneto is considered one of the top 4, but seems to struggle against a Strider-work/Duc Do-like team when Mag's is on point, and neither Spiral nor Strider are as high. Again, I think matchups will be the more important discussion.

    Although that being said, I am curious as to how the game evolves/devolves. I got some good offline play for the first time, and it was very fun, educational and downright soul-crushing. I played against a very good Solo-Cere, and all my fears about her came to life, with a few added nightmares to boot. I know MikeZ loves dem grapple characters, but at the moment, it does seem that giving a character access to MONSTROUS command grab range/damage, with the access of Hammerfall-like mobility with armor (Bullrush), VERY viable anti-airs, extremely effortless damage and incredibly reliable normals, it becomes difficult for me to imagine her having much to worry about, as she truly has an answer for everything, and it HURTS.

    Granted, I'm not saying Cere's -broke- by any means, but I see her not only having a much -easier- time plowing people due to her incredible ability to be a threat at -all- ranges, but just discouraging reasons to use others because she is so amazing for so little investment. Thankfully this is SUPER early and the discovery process is always fun and exciting. The best everyone can do is focus on their mains/teams, play as much as you can, and try to study and analyze any roadbump matchups you run into. So far I'm really enjoying the game, and thanks to MikeZ and crew for everything.


    tl;dr version - Matchups > Tiers. I hate Cere.
    To be fair, most tier lists are based off of matchups.

    But I agree with most of this. :D Great post!
  • FatsFats Supersonic Joined: Posts: 114
    ?????????????

    This is how you call someone out for ignoring everyone elses opinion and turning around and doing the exact same thing. This is why I hate these threads. If you're going to circle jerk your main, atleast do it in a way that doesn't make you look like a hypocritical asshole.

    Lol @ day 5 Metagame.

    Stay free.
    he doesn't even main her.

    My personal thoughts are that:


    tl;dr version - Matchups > Tiers. I hate Cere.

    I agree with matchups over tiers, and Cere is my girl... or rather, VICE-VERSA IS THE MAN
    Supreme stream overlord of Kanto
  • DiemmeDiemme LORD OF THE GLITCH. Joined: Posts: 301
    ?????????????

    This is how you call someone out for ignoring everyone elses opinion and turning around and doing the exact same thing, notice how he jumps on someone for disagreeing with him. This is why I hate these threads. If you're going to circle jerk your main, atleast do it in a way that doesn't make you look like a hypocritical asshole.

    Lol @ day 5 Metagame.

    Stay free.
    I don't even play Cerebella, lmao. But she's CLEARLY the best right now. Don't be ridiculous. And I would stay free, but you got that held down, and I'm not trying to be a biter, ya know? Enjoy monstering the streams, bro.

    Also, and just to make sure you realize how dumb you are, I want to point out where you said "lol@ 5 day metagame."

    The metagame exists in demos. the metagame exists before anyone has even played it. Just because you're unable to theorycraft and apply, doesn't mean others are. I'm more than capable of coming up with combos that I didn't find in a guide or on youtube.
    I've seen bionic car miss... If they SJ or painwheel flies really high, the car misses them.
    I mean as a dhc it won't miss. You don't just throw supers out for no reason, dude.
  • avatar_ignisavatar_ignis I'M A MOUNTAIN Joined: Posts: 128
    Painwheel main, trying to find a second teammate player here (really considering soloing her though)-

    I think ms. fortune will become really strong when some decent eddie like strategies come to light. At the moment i've played some decent cats, but i dont see them abusing the head mechanic to its full potential (which will take a long time).

    Not really sure how much valentine will shine later on, unless some nifty applications of her status changing needles are recognized.

    Have not played any good parasouls so i can't comment on her :/ Same goes for double outside of her assist.

    Cerebella is, well cerebella haha. I really need to learn that matchup

    Peacock has some bizarre normals, she might be a force to reckon with...
    Burn to Cinder...
  • ApocaLipsApocaLips Joined: Posts: 398
    My personal thoughts are that:

    I don't think the TIERS are going to be main discussion point in this game, but rather MATCHUPS.

    Tier lists are already match up charts. They just employ a highly complex and arcane form of statistical analysis called "addition" in order to rank the characters.
    At the moment, there's only 10 characters, and they're all pretty unique in their own way. So there's not really a character that just flat-out 'does everything better' than someone else.

    People say this at release of almost every game. Yes, the characters are highly differentiated, but most likely someone is going to come out on top.
  • ArachnofiendArachnofiend Double Uzis and a Wink Joined: Posts: 2,058
    The small character list also means that every character fits into a different niche. You don't have any situations like Magneto and Iron Man in Marvel 3 where they fill the same niche but Magneto does it better and more easily.
    Skullgirls: Peacock/Parasoul Marvel 2: BB Hood/Juggernaut/Ruby Heart Marvel 3: Tron/Strange/Skrull BlazBlue CSE: Hazama Vampire Savior: BB Hood
  • Dj AntmanDj Antman Whats a BassMonkey? Joined: Posts: 656
    Character list will get bigger in time i think. So much space on that character select screen
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  • ArachnofiendArachnofiend Double Uzis and a Wink Joined: Posts: 2,058
    And it's a film reel so it's practically begging to be scrolled.

    I trust Mike to be creative enough in his character design that nobody will be too similar to another character, though.
    Skullgirls: Peacock/Parasoul Marvel 2: BB Hood/Juggernaut/Ruby Heart Marvel 3: Tron/Strange/Skrull BlazBlue CSE: Hazama Vampire Savior: BB Hood
  • KingLordOfMasterKingLordOfMaster Boob appriciator Joined: Posts: 55
    And it's a film reel so it's practically begging to be scrolled.

    I trust Mike to be creative enough in his character design that nobody will be too similar to another character, though.

    In before Umbrella is to Parasoul what Ken is to Ryu
    Skullgirls: Valentine and Cerebella
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  • ArachnofiendArachnofiend Double Uzis and a Wink Joined: Posts: 2,058
    We know that Umbrella is a "charge" character in the sense that Hungern charges up and becomes more powerful the longer you don't use it.

    So no, Umbrella will not play much like Parasoul. :p
    Skullgirls: Peacock/Parasoul Marvel 2: BB Hood/Juggernaut/Ruby Heart Marvel 3: Tron/Strange/Skrull BlazBlue CSE: Hazama Vampire Savior: BB Hood
  • FatsFats Supersonic Joined: Posts: 114
    cerebella, parasoul, valentine TOP 3.
    Supreme stream overlord of Kanto
  • evilweevleevilweevle Xbox GT : MrFossy Joined: Posts: 4,275
    cerebella, parasoul, valentine TOP 3.

    i was just thinking that, as in, most used characters, not neccesarily the top tiers, just going off the amount of posts on each thread.

    funnily enough it seems that the top 3 characters are also the ones with the most boobs... coincidence???

    edit : (i dont think so)
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  • Knipping12Knipping12 "This is fucking stupid... fuck you" - Idra Joined: Posts: 108
    Since I saw them mentioned, is cerecopter invincible as an assist like the butt bomber? What about Fortune's Fiber upper?

    I cannot find a good assist for fortune other than like... standing medium kick lol.
    I was under the impression that all assists started with 2 free frames during which they could be hit. That being said I use Fortune's H. Fiber Upper, but I also run her on point so I don't use it as much as a regular assist...
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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 59,215 mod
    I was under the impression that all assists started with 2 free frames during which they could be hit. That being said I use Fortune's H. Fiber Upper, but I also run her on point so I don't use it as much as a regular assist...

    That's what I thought but it must be hard to do because at least with trying in training mode it seems really random whether or not you can hit that gap.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • ShinMooShinMoo Whirling Fortress Joined: Posts: 106
    While I agree that Solos have a slight disadvantage, I dont think they're terribad like some people say.

    almost every character has tools for fighting their hard counters, and while solos have worse matchups, they also have a level of damage that's really hard to ignore.

    like, Solobella has a tough time against zoning teams. it's a traditional Grappler vs. zoner battle there, plain and simple. But Cere has great mobility (long dash, double jump, air dash w/ a high priority attack attached, super armor command dash, Berserker slash, rush punches w/ armor). She also has her level 3 which is good against a zoner when they slip up, AND grants an OTG combo on hit. If cere times that shit right against an assist happy player, the opponent could eat one HELL of a happy birthday. So I feel the idea that solobella simply CANNOT compete with zoning teams a bit suspect (but hey, the game is young, so i could be easily proved wrong in time).

    Solobella, heck any solo for that matter, will have to work their ass off in fights against well designed teams, thats without a doubt. But when you can do 50-85% damage easily in one combo,sometimes without minimal meter, the potential for comebacks or for just STEAMROLLING when you have the momentum is nothing to scoff at. Teams NEED to be good at fighting off solos or else they would get their shit rocked way too easy. I think the balance between the ratios is pretty good at this point.
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  • xesxes Evil Forrest Gump Joined: Posts: 2,528
    solos will only get worse as people learn to block and use assists to create mixups.
  • ArachnofiendArachnofiend Double Uzis and a Wink Joined: Posts: 2,058
    The difference in damage output will also decrease as people learn to use assists as combo extenders.
    Skullgirls: Peacock/Parasoul Marvel 2: BB Hood/Juggernaut/Ruby Heart Marvel 3: Tron/Strange/Skrull BlazBlue CSE: Hazama Vampire Savior: BB Hood
  • NaaaapNaaaap Joined: Posts: 1
    This thread is garbage
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 37,391 mod
    Why has the Mike_Z quote not been posted yet?

    Also, no tiers without match-up charts.
  • Age_of_FoolsAge_of_Fools Joined: Posts: 706
    I just tried out the Cerebella/Double duo for the first time. I seriously underestimated what Hornet Bomber can do for Bella. In addition, most of Bella's damage can be meterless which is great for Double as anchor, or if the order gets reversed. They have great synergy with each other and can both hold their own solo. Against zoning teams, reflector should theoretically give you a way in, against rushdown armor and grabs save the day, and once Double has meter and the life lead (and I'm not the one using her) she should be able to chip the opponents into submission. I'd be very interested in what team or character could have the matchup advantage against this duo.
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  • t1bzt1bz Joined: Posts: 196
    guys, what are your thoughts of Zinac getting 2nd in Skullgirls @ PowerUp2012 using solo Peacock?

    It definitely piques my interest seeing as how I main her. Too bad I can't navigate through the own3d archives well enough to tell whether those matches were even streamed or not ;_;
  • 1000DollaSocks1000DollaSocks That's an overhead?! Joined: Posts: 618
    Personal top right now is Painwheel Double. Perfect effectivity, invincible multi-utilitarian assist which is coverable by painwheel's mobility and normals, phenomenal DHC, and very high effeciency in terms of meter to damage which teams of 3 can't keep up with (If I am hit by a very long team of 3 combo, I am almost guaranteed to have enough meter for a brutal counter attack later, either in terms of neutral game or combo. If I hit a team, they are not given the same meter benefits. I still outclass solo teams because of assist and DHC)

    I think another very solid team is Painwheel or Filia or Ms Fortune/Double or Parasol (Hornet Bomber/Flash Kick)/Cerebella (anti air). Any of the mobile points, supplemented by reversal assist and safe DHC, and also with the unblockable anti air choice to force people to think twice about approach or escape.

    My personal thoughts.

    I also think it's really, really dumb to take tier lists very seriously early on, but I think anyone who thinks Painwheel isn't strong is insane, and anyone who can't tell Double's assist and DHC makes her potent is also insane.

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  • JarekovJarekov Thou Art A Bear Joined: Posts: 1,995
    S tier- Parasoul, Cerebella, Double, Pain Wheel
    A Tier- Filia, Peacock, Fortune, Valentine

    This game feels really well balanced so far.

    As other better and more intelligent players have stated I think the tiers and matchup charts will come down a large bit to team compositions and things like that.

    I see a lot of people saying peacock and filia are weak, ironically thats the team I'm currently repping and I feel like its a rather strong team.
  • OMG its a duckOMG its a duck Bruh I'm in down bad bruh Joined: Posts: 1,920
    Peacock weak? Some people are just on crack, or have never seen the true horror of Double butt + Peacock.

    My top 3 right now are Painwheel, Peacock, Ms. Fortune btw.
This discussion has been closed.