"Nem-Assists": The Nemesis Teambuilding/Assists Thread

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Comments

  • MacarrattiMacarratti Joined: Posts: 1,421
    Well, this is a game where 90% of the cast is usable, if you know the tech, do your homework, and dedicate some effort. I think that's amazingly cool.

    as I've always said, despite this game's flaws, Capcom has still achieved a game where around 40 of the 48 character cast can consistently hold their own on a well constructed team. UMvC3 is a VERY balanced game, mostly because almost every character has some kind of utter bullshit to abuse
  • DukeofFortuneManDukeofFortuneMan I still like Nemesis... Joined: Posts: 1,278
    around 40 of the 48 character cast can consistently hold their own on a well constructed team.

    So, who do you think is unusable?

    I've got my own thoughts, but I wanna hear your list.
    UMVC3: I know a ton of characters, not all of them great, but for now focusing on Deadpool/Vergil/Shuma, Deadpool/Taskmaster/Hawkeye, and Taskmaster/Vergil/Hawkeye MK9: Freddy Krueger, Stryker, Sektor ; Skullgirls: Cerebella/Filia for life (<3) ; Playstation Allstars: Ratchet ; Injustice: Zombie, Teen Titans

    Youtube channel: Derpfighter6
    Add me if you want to play some Marvel, GAU, Skullgirls or PSAS, I'm TiberiusF on PSN
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Factual Joined: Posts: 9,901
    So, who do you think is unusable?

    I've got my own thoughts, but I wanna hear your list.

    My guess: Iron Fist, Doctor Strange, Hsien-Ko and Shuma Gorath are all extremely low, but have their uses, so they're only barely just viable.

    Doc doesn't have the buttons, IF and Hsien-Ko suffer from extreme lack of mobility, and Shuma is just lacking, so others can do his job better. But you can still win with these characters or they have assists worth keeping around.

    Even She-Hulk and Thor have good potential.

    In fact, the only character in this game with absolutely no redeemable qualities and simply can't function is PW.
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • triplexraidertriplexraider Fall into darkness! Joined: Posts: 1,057
    I was thinking of testing out a Nemesis(Slam)/Dormammu(Hole)/Arthur(Daggers) just for kicks. Nemmy is the kinda heavy dude I want to play.
    Manga Therapy - Where Psychology & Manga Meet (http://www.mangatherapy.com)
    PSN: triplexraider
    UMvC3: Thor/Dormammu/Doctor Doom, Wesker/Doctor Strange/Vergil
  • DukeofFortuneManDukeofFortuneMan I still like Nemesis... Joined: Posts: 1,278
    My guess: Iron Fist, Doctor Strange, Hsien-Ko and Shuma Gorath are all extremely low, but have their uses, so they're only barely just viable.

    Doc doesn't have the buttons, IF and Hsien-Ko suffer from extreme lack of mobility, and Shuma is just lacking, so others can do his job better. But you can still win with these characters or they have assists worth keeping around.

    Even She-Hulk and Thor have good potential.

    In fact, the only character in this game with absolutely no redeemable qualities and simply can't function is PW.

    Okay, here's my list of bad guys: Hsien-Ko, IF, maybe Shuma. Hsien-Ko requires specific setups for godly lockdown and mixup potential for other characters, but she cannot shine well on her own, and a lot of setups that exist already make people like sentinel of ammy around as good as her godly assist, so the same effort put into someone else would be better used. And IF is slow in the air, but his ground speed is insane, his footsies are fantastic. Just, his mixups suck, and he'd be great if this game didn't love guys with air games. Shuma's decent, I have links to combo video showing 900k to 1mill X-factorless combos, and resets/ways to combo off his command throw. His mobility is less terrible than people give it credit for. He just requires SO MUCH WORK to make himself as good as the rest of the cast. Oh, and though he's actually a pretty high-damage character, he has to be near the corner.

    But I will protect PW to the grave. He absolutely requires you have all the stupid really specific kinda tech for, but in the proper team he annihilates, or at least accents it like no one else. I only have one example, but he's so badass it counts: Basic Sausage. He has found so many ways to make Phoenix Wright's weird requirements usable. And PW has some interesting things to add for teams once you figure it out. PW's dog is one of the best assists in the game, odd thing to say, but it's undiscovered great assist, just because it fills so many niches. It's a low otg, one of three assists in the game, and is delayed enough that you can do very odd delayed otg stuff with it, like a Cap's Shield Skills Hyper with doom missiles kinda deal, just lesser known, so people don't have tech for it yet. It's one of the best ways for Hulk to follow up his command throw, and can unlock for Hulk a pretty accessible grappler game, more like the Nem we know and love. And, of course, the assist unblockables for those who have the pressure. And Dark Wright (final mode, XF3, with the cell phone equipped) is a blast. I can mash two buttons and win for free. And, he's like felicia in that he has pretty impossible-to-escape unblockables. Someone will find a way to bring him to the big-time eventually, but he needs a REALLY specific team, or a buff.
    UMVC3: I know a ton of characters, not all of them great, but for now focusing on Deadpool/Vergil/Shuma, Deadpool/Taskmaster/Hawkeye, and Taskmaster/Vergil/Hawkeye MK9: Freddy Krueger, Stryker, Sektor ; Skullgirls: Cerebella/Filia for life (<3) ; Playstation Allstars: Ratchet ; Injustice: Zombie, Teen Titans

    Youtube channel: Derpfighter6
    Add me if you want to play some Marvel, GAU, Skullgirls or PSAS, I'm TiberiusF on PSN
  • DukeofFortuneManDukeofFortuneMan I still like Nemesis... Joined: Posts: 1,278
    I was thinking of testing out a Nemesis(Slam)/Dormammu(Hole)/Arthur(Daggers) just for kicks. Nemmy is the kinda heavy dude I want to play.
    That team sounds great, by the by. And yeah, Nem is wonderful. Nem, Thor, and Hulk are massively under-appreciated.
    UMVC3: I know a ton of characters, not all of them great, but for now focusing on Deadpool/Vergil/Shuma, Deadpool/Taskmaster/Hawkeye, and Taskmaster/Vergil/Hawkeye MK9: Freddy Krueger, Stryker, Sektor ; Skullgirls: Cerebella/Filia for life (<3) ; Playstation Allstars: Ratchet ; Injustice: Zombie, Teen Titans

    Youtube channel: Derpfighter6
    Add me if you want to play some Marvel, GAU, Skullgirls or PSAS, I'm TiberiusF on PSN
  • triplexraidertriplexraider Fall into darkness! Joined: Posts: 1,057
    That team sounds great, by the by. And yeah, Nem is wonderful. Nem, Thor, and Hulk are massively under-appreciated.

    My best character is Dormammu and I was thinking of a good evil minion to be his enforcer up front. He sounds like the one.
    Manga Therapy - Where Psychology & Manga Meet (http://www.mangatherapy.com)
    PSN: triplexraider
    UMvC3: Thor/Dormammu/Doctor Doom, Wesker/Doctor Strange/Vergil
  • FuzzykipsFuzzykips @FizzyKups Joined: Posts: 403
    I completely support that team, I really think Nem and Dorm work great together. Dark Hole is really good for setting up Tentacle Slams, adding pressure, or catching opponents to start (moderately scaled) combos. At the same time, Launcher Slam is good for incoming character mix-ups, continuing combos off of Flame Carpet, and it makes a wonky but effective anti-air for Dorm. Setting up Stalker Flares at the end of Nemesis combos is always fun, as well.

    I don't play Arthur, but in theory they're a good match. Daggers is a three Fireball pressure move to help Nemmy approach, and mix-ups happen with Dorm. I'm not sure how the DHC would go with Arthur, but it sounds like it'd be good.

    (I also went through that thought process a lot. Dormammu can possess and empower normal human beings perfectly fine, so he should totally be able to control an undead tank)
    GT: FizzyKups
    UMvC3: Spencer/Dante/Frank West
    AE: Juri/Guile/Viper
  • DukeofFortuneManDukeofFortuneMan I still like Nemesis... Joined: Posts: 1,278
    My best character is Dormammu and I was thinking of a good evil minion to be his enforcer up front. He sounds like the one.
    I'm not entirely used to the concept of making themed teams. All the teams I have went between have been based on how they synergize. I never went theme first. My mains were the only team that I just liked the characters too much, and forced the synergy until it worked.

    That said, Nem/Dorm/Arthur is pretty damn solid. Dark hole helps Nem get close for shenanigans and outmatches a lot of ranged moves. I have always been jealous of a good arthur player, because I think he's crazy solid and fun to play. His assist is great with everyone, especially Dorm, who likes the beamishness of daggers, and Nem loves the daggers. Yeah, this team's pretty spooky.
    UMVC3: I know a ton of characters, not all of them great, but for now focusing on Deadpool/Vergil/Shuma, Deadpool/Taskmaster/Hawkeye, and Taskmaster/Vergil/Hawkeye MK9: Freddy Krueger, Stryker, Sektor ; Skullgirls: Cerebella/Filia for life (<3) ; Playstation Allstars: Ratchet ; Injustice: Zombie, Teen Titans

    Youtube channel: Derpfighter6
    Add me if you want to play some Marvel, GAU, Skullgirls or PSAS, I'm TiberiusF on PSN
  • triplexraidertriplexraider Fall into darkness! Joined: Posts: 1,057
    I'm not entirely used to the concept of making themed teams. All the teams I have went between have been based on how they synergize. I never went theme first. My mains were the only team that I just liked the characters too much, and forced the synergy until it worked.

    That said, Nem/Dorm/Arthur is pretty damn solid. Dark hole helps Nem get close for shenanigans and outmatches a lot of ranged moves. I have always been jealous of a good arthur player, because I think he's crazy solid and fun to play. His assist is great with everyone, especially Dorm, who likes the beamishness of daggers, and Nem loves the daggers. Yeah, this team's pretty spooky.

    Yeah, I just gotta work on my Arthur game. I focus on both theme and synergy when it comes to mostly Dorm as he is my favorite character in the game.
    Manga Therapy - Where Psychology & Manga Meet (http://www.mangatherapy.com)
    PSN: triplexraider
    UMvC3: Thor/Dormammu/Doctor Doom, Wesker/Doctor Strange/Vergil
  • DukeofFortuneManDukeofFortuneMan I still like Nemesis... Joined: Posts: 1,278
    Yeah, I just gotta work on my Arthur game. I focus on both theme and synergy when it comes to mostly Dorm as he is my favorite character in the game.
    Sweet. I've always been a decent-but-uninteresting dorm (tridashes all day, use the MastaCJ combo with Wesker, who I'm also boring with), and have always wanted to really use him better, but I've never really had the opportunity.

    Nem is my best, probly. X-23 used to be, but I find if I just say "this is the team I'm using", my lead becomes my best character, because matchup knowledge (X-23 was my lead with my odd-as-fuck vanilla team).

    Throw Arthur in the lead spot temporarily, I bet you that'll pump up his game. And you won't be relying on that Dark Arthur spear stuff.
    UMVC3: I know a ton of characters, not all of them great, but for now focusing on Deadpool/Vergil/Shuma, Deadpool/Taskmaster/Hawkeye, and Taskmaster/Vergil/Hawkeye MK9: Freddy Krueger, Stryker, Sektor ; Skullgirls: Cerebella/Filia for life (<3) ; Playstation Allstars: Ratchet ; Injustice: Zombie, Teen Titans

    Youtube channel: Derpfighter6
    Add me if you want to play some Marvel, GAU, Skullgirls or PSAS, I'm TiberiusF on PSN
  • MacarrattiMacarratti Joined: Posts: 1,421
    So, who do you think is unusable?

    I've got my own thoughts, but I wanna hear your list.

    While I honestly think everyone is USABLE and can win, I do think there are a handful of characters that either so gimped in some areas/ outclassed by other characters or require so much work for only somewhat passable results, that to consider them "Viable" against a good player with a good team, doesn't feel honest.

    in no particular order:

    Tron: I was a vanilla Tron user, and loved her to death. I knew Gustaff fire would get nerfed, and it NEEDED nerf. but then Tron herself got nerfed, and I cannot call what Capcom gave her in return "buffs", at least not in the sense that they make her a better character. 3 of her 4 special moves are useless outside of combos, and the one she is left with DESTROYS her HSD and damage scaling. of all the heavies, she EASILY does the least damage. in fact, a low meter Tron cannot be considered a Heavy IMO because her combos are so anemic, it's pathetic. the Servbot cannon "buff" has too much leeway, making it a HUGE commitment if you decide to use that move, thus destroying any zoning she had. Her good normals were nerfed into oblivion, and she doesnt even have an assist or good DHC to make up for any of it.
    Shuma Gorath: Once again, a vanilla shuma user here. While he was net buffed in UMvC3, he's still too weak, and he's outclassed in EVERY way by other characters. He can do everything, but he does none of it well. simple as that. that, and Chaos dimension isnt as good as it was in MvC2. still salty over that.
    Hsien-Ko: what the fuck hasnt been said about hsien ko yet? a Great DS character that was destroyed in the transition to this game. just sad, and Gold Ko doesnt make up for ANYTHING, EVER.
    Iron Fist: for a character that relies on getting in, his mobility is simply horrible, even on the ground, since all of it is risky. his launcher is a JOKE, and is a subtle nerf to his anti-air game, making his ability to score a combo off of random hits (which is important in this game) very, very, bad. His powerups are also just pathetic, with the "attack-up" one being the only useful one, and even then, the damage difference is pretty small, even for long combos. the defense one and meter one dont change enough to be relied on in any meaningful way. if the defense one cut damage by 1/2 or something crazy like that, all the sudden he would become better, since he could TAKE risks, and not fucking DIE. or if meter doubled. basically, ki is useless. the lack of any aerial options is also fucking terrible for a game like this, and I see no reason why he doesnt have any.
    Pheonix Wright: similar to Tron, was ok on point at best, but his assist made earned him a spot on teams, which would have made his metagame improve by simply being USED. no one uses him now, except for a couple awesome players, and thats more like the exception that proves the rule IMO. He's he best off of all 5 character in my opinion, but he's still bottom 5 in my book.

    and honorary mentions to Ghost Rider and Strange, since while they both have a FUCKTON of issues like the above characters, they also have a handful of very specific awesome things that can make them viable on well constructed teams (GR's long reach and Strange's good set of hypers)
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Factual Joined: Posts: 9,901
    Opinion

    I'm sorry but I have to call you out on PW. He's certainly not the best of the five. Shuma should fit that bill, as he can function and infact does have a very good assist to back him up, one that isn't easy to replicate. In fact, each of them except Tron have good assists. IF has LOG FOOT which is very nice, Shuma with Mystic Ray, and Gold Hsien-Ko assist does infact count because of the amount of lockdown it can provide(lockdown that the opponent can't do crap about mind you). Even Tron has some fun and useful tech with her Beacon Bomb that can lead to, for example, a free Nemesis air grab. But what does PW have on his own to contribute to the team? A Low OTG assist as his best one.........Why would you not just play Wesker? I mean, sure you can trade IF for RR, but that's OK because their playstyles are completely different, one's keepaway, one's rush. PW is more or less rush because he HAS to land that Objection for anything to happen. And lets face it, Dark Wesker vs Dark Wright....just try to think about that.
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • MacarrattiMacarratti Joined: Posts: 1,421
    I'm sorry but I have to call you out on PW. He's certainly not the best of the five. Shuma should fit that bill, as he can function and infact does have a very good assist to back him up, one that isn't easy to replicate. In fact, each of them except Tron have good assists. IF has LOG FOOT which is very nice, Shuma with Mystic Ray, and Gold Hsien-Ko assist does infact count because of the amount of lockdown it can provide(lockdown that the opponent can't do crap about mind you). Even Tron has some fun and useful tech with her Beacon Bomb that can lead to, for example, a free Nemesis air grab. But what does PW have on his own to contribute to the team? A Low OTG assist as his best one.........Why would you not just play Wesker? I mean, sure you can trade IF for RR, but that's OK because their playstyles are completely different, one's keepaway, one's rush. PW is more or less rush because he HAS to land that Objection for anything to happen. And lets face it, Dark Wesker vs Dark Wright....just try to think about that.

    keep in mind, it's a low hitting assist that goes fullscreen, OTG's and stays out for what can feel like FOREVER. in the heat of a fight, that assist gets lost very easily, and can open people up simply because they dont see it coming. It's one of the few assists in the game that can actually list "hard to see coming" on its list of pros. it serves an entirely different purpose than Wesker gun IMO.

    as for why I put him near the top of the 5, I dunno, It's mostly just an inkling. I've seen PW on specially designed teams, and it can be scary, and a PW that HAS gone through all the bullshit and gotten his 3 items does become alot stronger, even without "Dark PW" or X factor.

    I still think Tron is the absolute worst in the game. she has a shit zoning game, a shit grab/command grab game, some of the worst HSD in the game, some of the worst damage scaling in the game Hypers that are useless outside of combos, a reliance on meter to deal any worthwhile damage and does not build meter well compared to other high-hitcount characters, shitty normals that either neuter her combos due to multiple hits or early groundbounces or simply no longer work well because they got hit with the nerf stick, and she has really fucking hard time extending combos without assists. ALL Tron has is high health, and even then, she's not even the highest.
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Factual Joined: Posts: 9,901
    keep in mind, it's a low hitting assist that goes fullscreen, OTG's and stays out for what can feel like FOREVER. in the heat of a fight, that assist gets lost very easily, and can open people up simply because they dont see it coming. It's one of the few assists in the game that can actually list "hard to see coming" on its list of pros. it serves an entirely different purpose than Wesker gun IMO.

    as for why I put him near the top of the 5, I dunno, It's mostly just an inkling. I've seen PW on specially designed teams, and it can be scary, and a PW that HAS gone through all the bullshit and gotten his 3 items does become alot stronger, even without "Dark PW" or X factor.

    I still think Tron is the absolute worst in the game. she has a shit zoning game, a shit grab/command grab game, some of the worst HSD in the game, some of the worst damage scaling in the game Hypers that are useless outside of combos, a reliance on meter to deal any worthwhile damage and does not build meter well compared to other high-hitcount characters, shitty normals that either neuter her combos due to multiple hits or early groundbounces or simply no longer work well because they got hit with the nerf stick, and she has really fucking hard time extending combos without assists. ALL Tron has is high health, and even then, she's not even the highest.

    Then again, the team argument can also be used on Tron. I'd like to redirect you to the previously mentioned Beacon Bomb setups. Infact, I'm more or less lumping her in with a new kind of point character I like to call the Swappers. These are characters that can hard tag to other characters and have them continue/reset a combo for large damage. Current known residents are Firebrand, Tron and She-Hulk. Also, how's her meter building and you forgot that she also has a weird hitbox in her favor.

    Back to PW, his powerup mode isn't even that good either. It's not like Frank or Phoenix where they just dominate the whole time. PW has chip in his favor, sure, and he does hurt, but one, his powerup mode isn't eternal like the others, two, there's no way not to have PW on screen and still power him up like with Frank and Phoenix, and three, other than his chip, his pointing Hs are his other kill moves, but the cH one doesn't hit low, so there's no real mixup game like what Phoenix and Frank have either.
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • DukeofFortuneManDukeofFortuneMan I still like Nemesis... Joined: Posts: 1,278
    While I honestly think everyone is USABLE and can win, I do think there are a handful of characters that either so gimped in some areas/ outclassed by other characters or require so much work for only somewhat passable results, that to consider them "Viable" against a good player with a good team, doesn't feel honest.

    in no particular order:

    Tron: Stuff
    Shuma Gorath: Stuff
    Pheonix Wright: Stuff

    and honorary mentions to Ghost Rider and Strange, since while they both have a FUCKTON of issues like the above characters, they also have a handful of very specific awesome things that can make them viable on well constructed teams (GR's long reach and Strange's good set of hypers)

    Tron: My sparring buddy mains her, so I don't think she's awful. Her mixup and zoning game is shite, and her hitbox makes for an easy target. Worse still, her damage, outside of VERY specific relaunch combos, do little damage (Chris G has found a few exceptions in his Tron combos, but still). She does have a few great air normals and a surprisingly fast dash. It's just outdone by quite a few others. She has a decent footsie game, and can keep things safe in the air, and she has a command throw, but just doesn't have the speed or attacks to regulate those tools unless the player is a boss, AND he also has to have like, exactly the right assists. My friend's got some tech, but it's mostly odd setups and living off the poor matchup experience that everyone online has. She's not terrible, and his Tron is actually a lot tougher for me than his Hulk or his Chris, but his day 3 Spencer proves harder. She's usable, if you're devoted to her, but the same effort elsewhere would be better placed. Oh, and her assists are bad.

    Shuma and PW are mostly still unexplored, but I've talked about them a bit already. I'd say PW is secret mid-tier, and Shuma, even if you figure out all the technical crap (and his good combos are a BITCH to input), Shuma's still secret lowish-tier with a decent assist. PW has the dog, and as a guy who has used every low otg assist origianlly in all of his teams (my Frank team used to have Wesker, my Haggar team used to have Wright), Dog is WAY different than wesker gun, and works if you find the shit.

    Ghost Rider feels like a different kind of character than we're used to. He ROCKS specific matchups, and I'd say he should only be used as a countering character. His space control's fantastic on certain teams, but he just suffers from a lack of interesting stuff if he does not have assists. He's just too dependant on other characters for any form of approach, zoning, or damage. He's good at his own tools, but every other character can use some interesting stuff, and he's left behind.

    Doctor Strange can be great. He's got fast teleports, interesting mixups, a gimlet of his own, he adds some amazing angles to THC tricks, and his assists are amazing. I personally love the bolts, and I barely even play strange. I've seen some British players have Firebrand reset into an eye of agamotto, setting up pretty-much unblockable firebrand resets into touches of death nearly every time, and I've seen Dire's Strange, which uses Spencer's assist to cause a restand and then his impact palm crumples after about 50 jump loops. He has potential, just not potential beyond a middish-tier position. Also, I don't like how, despite his great mixups, nothing's safe enough if blocked.

    Hsien-Ko is the worst in my book, by far. She has interesting tech, that does barely anything, and her gimmicky god-assist game can be matched in usefulness by ANY good lockdown assist if the player knows how to keep them safe. Too bad, I'd use her if she wasn't shite.
    UMVC3: I know a ton of characters, not all of them great, but for now focusing on Deadpool/Vergil/Shuma, Deadpool/Taskmaster/Hawkeye, and Taskmaster/Vergil/Hawkeye MK9: Freddy Krueger, Stryker, Sektor ; Skullgirls: Cerebella/Filia for life (<3) ; Playstation Allstars: Ratchet ; Injustice: Zombie, Teen Titans

    Youtube channel: Derpfighter6
    Add me if you want to play some Marvel, GAU, Skullgirls or PSAS, I'm TiberiusF on PSN
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Factual Joined: Posts: 9,901
    I was just sent a friend request by drey 323, who is apparently a Dallas Nemesis player, is that the online ID of someone on here?
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • MacarrattiMacarratti Joined: Posts: 1,421
    I was just sent a friend request by drey 323, who is apparently a Dallas Nemesis player, is that the online ID of someone on here?

    I got it too. It must either be a regular, or a lurker.

    As for this low tier debate, one thing I will say is, despite all the shit I've said about these characters, the fact that were all debating over which ones are viable is pretty solid proof that even the low tier is not as locked in as in other games. Even tron can pull out a victory, and not just against people that don't block. They suck, but they don't suck so much that they are useless.


    UMVC3 low tier is god tier compared to MvC2 low tier.
  • DukeofFortuneManDukeofFortuneMan I still like Nemesis... Joined: Posts: 1,278
    UMVC3 low tier is god tier compared to MvC2 low tier.
    Indeed.
    UMVC3: I know a ton of characters, not all of them great, but for now focusing on Deadpool/Vergil/Shuma, Deadpool/Taskmaster/Hawkeye, and Taskmaster/Vergil/Hawkeye MK9: Freddy Krueger, Stryker, Sektor ; Skullgirls: Cerebella/Filia for life (<3) ; Playstation Allstars: Ratchet ; Injustice: Zombie, Teen Titans

    Youtube channel: Derpfighter6
    Add me if you want to play some Marvel, GAU, Skullgirls or PSAS, I'm TiberiusF on PSN
  • sexy rancherossexy rancheros Joined: Posts: 8
    As a Tron main, I'd like to clear up some misconceptions that I see here about her.

    What's her problem with HSD? I don't see any. Damage scaling? Drills scale damage, yeah, but they also build a lot of bar in return.

    Tron has to be played on point and depends on assists to set up her supers, but she's actually not stingy about what assists you use to land her supers with. Some assists won't let you land King Servbot, for example, but they'll let you land Lunchtime and when you're a character down, that's good to keep in mind.

    Meter? You should be building upwards of a bar if you land a hit. Also take into consideration ABEGEN's DHC tech with Thor and other possibilities.

    Damage? I think this is the point I find the most baffling. I'm pretty sure Tron can do more damage than Nemesis with both assists and only one super. You guys presumably know more about Nemesis than I and I'm aware of some of his resets, which potentially makes his damage limitless, but as far as absolutely guaranteed damage, I feel relatively secure in thinking Tron's got him beat. Opening up an opponent up to allow for such an opportunity is another matter completely.

    I'll use my Tron team with Nemesis(Rocket Launcher) and Jill(Arrow Kick/wall bounce) as an example and my BnB off of a j. S with said team.
    J. S, s. HS, airMMH, air H drill before hitting the ground, s.S, airMMHS, s. d.H, Jill, L beacon bomb, King Servbot, s. H, Nemesis, L beacon bomb, j. H H drill
    Sorry for the mangled notation, but it's hard to get some of it across in a more refined fashion, especially the relaunch part. Depending on how you mash, you can get 910,000 out of it. It's pretty hard to get anything under 860,000, meaning dead Magneto and everybody down. Before the super, you end up with a little bit above a bar. After the drill at the end, you end up with around 75% - 80% of a bar. This combo is also corner to corner so you don't have to worry about where on screen you start it from. If you're close to the corner, you can omit the drill before to relaunch completely.

    Her assists are bad and that's just another reason why you play her on point. There's really no reason to use Gustaff Fire anymore and her drill assist is absolutely useless from my testing. I feel Bandit Boulder is THE assist for her now. You can use it for combo extension for Frank, Haggar, Wesker, and probably others. You could maybe use it as a ghetto lockdown assist and you can definitely use it as a ghetto projectile. You could also potentially use it for wacky resets with how HSD works with it.

    I don't think Tron is anywhere near the worst character in the game. She has problems, sure, but if she gets a hit, your character is probably gonna be dead. I was actually thinking recently that Tron is better than Nemesis. His command grab is definitely better since it leads to more damage anywhere on screen, but I'm pretty sure hers has faster startup(I don't have the guide so...) despite not being able to do anything other than that if you're not near the corner. In terms of normals, I'd probably give it to Tron other than Nem's starfish and armor. I'd like to hear your guys' opinion on the matter because I haven't nearly put in as much time in researching Nemesis as Tron.

    Sorry for the long post about Tron, but with all the tiers I've seen lately around SRK, this is as good as a spot as any to vent.
  • DukeofFortuneManDukeofFortuneMan I still like Nemesis... Joined: Posts: 1,278
    I don't think Tron is anywhere near the worst character in the game. She has problems, sure, but if she gets a hit, your character is probably gonna be dead. I was actually thinking recently that Tron is better than Nemesis. His command grab is definitely better since it leads to more damage anywhere on screen, but I'm pretty sure hers has faster startup(I don't have the guide so...) despite not being able to do anything other than that if you're not near the corner. In terms of normals, I'd probably give it to Tron other than Nem's starfish and armor. I'd like to hear your guys' opinion on the matter because I haven't nearly put in as much time in researching Nemesis as Tron.

    Sorry for the long post about Tron, but with all the tiers I've seen lately around SRK, this is as good as a spot as any to vent.

    Yeah, my buddy just showed me some tech that he has been developing in training mode for Tron, who he also mains. My face was fixed. Anyway, this couldn't have come at a better time, because my sparring buddy just reevaluated my opinion of Tron. Apparently, Chris G did pretty well at a tourney with a Tron team he made, and my bud stole ALL OF IT (He also uses Chris/Tron).

    I still say, she's in need of specific teams, but damn, if I could barely hit Tron in my last few matches. Anyway, I still think everyone in this game can be used as long as you know the tech, and Hsien-Ko is the only one who is outclassed in most respects by a lot of other characters.

    Also, to the Tronman, My buddy showed me a few uses for the Drill Assist over the Bandit Boulder. He uses it for a weird pushing away blockstring thing with Chris, and he can also extend stuff in very odd ways with it. Not as useful overall, but hell, with this game, anything can happen.
    UMVC3: I know a ton of characters, not all of them great, but for now focusing on Deadpool/Vergil/Shuma, Deadpool/Taskmaster/Hawkeye, and Taskmaster/Vergil/Hawkeye MK9: Freddy Krueger, Stryker, Sektor ; Skullgirls: Cerebella/Filia for life (<3) ; Playstation Allstars: Ratchet ; Injustice: Zombie, Teen Titans

    Youtube channel: Derpfighter6
    Add me if you want to play some Marvel, GAU, Skullgirls or PSAS, I'm TiberiusF on PSN
  • MacarrattiMacarratti Joined: Posts: 1,421
    awesome and long Tron retort

    you bring up alot of good points, and since you're a current Tron user, while I was a Vanilla user (dropped her like a rock. she no longer felt fun to me TBH) I respect you comin' in here and defendin' her.

    I respectfully disagree though. Tron might be able to get good damage with assists, but anyone can get good damage with assists. that's how 1/2 the cast get's their damage. From my (outdated, yes) knowledge of Tron, her assistless damage was still pretty low compared to other heavies when she lacked assists, and the only way to pump it back up was by burning alot of meter. Nemesis might not be doing Hulk level damage, but it's actually HARD to deal below 700k with Nemesis's BnBs, and he has some viable assistless 800k combos as well. Slap some of nemesis's resets on that and a dead character is easy. I'll admit that with assists, Tron has scary damage, but when left alone, or put in a situation where she can't use her assists, Nemesis has her beat IMO.

    I recall her HSD and meter gain as rather bad, but since you're a tron main and all, I'm not surprised if I'm wrong about that, I don't research into her as much as nemmy.

    as for the straight up "who is better?", I have got to give it to Nemesis (what's that? me? biased? haha, yeah...). Nemesis has a great set of normals, and is much more than Starfish and armor. j.M has a hitbox that would make hulk jealous, j.H is godlike we all know this, and j.S is deceptively large, and leads into a groundbounce. s.L has great range, and s.H has armor, and a good AA angle. cr.H is great for tick throws as well as for crossing under. all his normals are safe on block or can be cancelled into clothesline which IS safe on block, or command grab if you want to lay on the pressure. and s.S has one of the largest hitboxes in the game, without having ANY hurtbox, making good spacing with that move excellent. all versions of deadly reach are great armor breaking tools, assist killers, and just some of the best pokes IN THE GAME. All of nemesis's normals have a use, we even recently found some cool shit with j.L!



    Tron has j.M, and while j,H still has a good hitbox, it's ability to turn into a combo got turned to shit. j.S is still a great move for people pressing buttons, and I guess s.L is nice due to the multiple hits. compared to Nemesis's normals though, she's lacking range and fast, long pokes that convert into comboes easy as pie. I will say though, her j.M is excellent, and is one of a handful of moves in the game that I would consider on par with nemesis in regards to poking.

    as for command grabs, yeah, Trons is faster (My gut instinct is 3 framer? I'm not feeling it's a 1 frame grab. [obviously wesker needed a 1 frame command grab. he was really lacking without it ~ sarcasm]) but I dont see her command grab game comparing to other grab heavy characters like Nemesis or Haggar and Thor. The range is REALLY bad, and while she can get a combo out of it, it doesn't end in the same reset loops nemesis can get. I am unfamiliar with any throw setups tron has (please enlighten me, I'm genuinely curious) but honestly it's mostly the range that's not selling it to me. Nemesis may have a slow command grab (6 frame startup I think) but it has the best range in the game, and often, that's how he lands, because it's range is deceptively large.

    so yeah, that's an extended version of my opinion on tron. hope I wasnt too much of a jackass.
  • DukeofFortuneManDukeofFortuneMan I still like Nemesis... Joined: Posts: 1,278
    Oh, another case for Tron, she has Frank setups on par with Nova and Skrull, and works very well with shopping cart. I actually considered using her over Ammy for my Frank team for just that reason, but I'd rather have the ability to get Frank to level 5 off a combo if he's snapped in or if Ammy lands a TAC, more variety, ya know? Also, ice plus Frank, just take me right now, that image is too awesome.

    Tron's fun, and has great normals and a surprisingly fast air dash, a wonky hitbox which makes combos on her different, and good normals. She is THE abuse bad matchup character, and really hard to touch, her damage is also good. She just doesn't open up enough the way I play her. And I'm bad at making her safe, and I require both bounces on my teams, usually, and the only people she would be able to replace are of the wallbouncey variety. She's unnoticed B+ tier in my book, but my book's odd, I say everyone but the top 5 and Modok deserve to be B+ tier (They deserve god tier), and also Hsien-Ko (she is very very low tier. I'd love to see a Hsien-Ko player come here and disprove me, because I wanted to pick her up if she wasn't garbage).
    UMVC3: I know a ton of characters, not all of them great, but for now focusing on Deadpool/Vergil/Shuma, Deadpool/Taskmaster/Hawkeye, and Taskmaster/Vergil/Hawkeye MK9: Freddy Krueger, Stryker, Sektor ; Skullgirls: Cerebella/Filia for life (<3) ; Playstation Allstars: Ratchet ; Injustice: Zombie, Teen Titans

    Youtube channel: Derpfighter6
    Add me if you want to play some Marvel, GAU, Skullgirls or PSAS, I'm TiberiusF on PSN
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Factual Joined: Posts: 9,901
    Tron
    Stuff



    Thing about Tron is that she needs certain assists to make her super effective. And yeah, that's not too far off from Nemesis, but Tron I feel needs more from her assists and suffers more without them. Tron's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better at instant overheading than Nemesis, so having something like Deadpool or Felicia is just awesome. Imagine jL + Felicia and try blocking that. Tron combo extenders are definitely on the scaling side and tend to cost a lot for good damage, but I often see her getting a lot meter for various reasons when pros use her, so there might be something there. Another nice thing about Tron is that she actually has invincible supers, even if they are sort of ass at actually BEING invincible, but they're faster than Nemesis. And she DOES have an invincible, fast grab which is probably very useful, especially compared to our lumbering zombie friend.

    But Macaratti's right, Nemesis simply has more. His zoning and keepaway are functional to good, his normals are drastically better, his DHC into someone is almost universally synergetic, his angles are astounding, and Tron's impressive damage depends greatly on the assist backing her up. If Tron were assistsless, what would her damage be. Nice thing about Nemesis is that A) His reset options greatly increase damage even if scaling from something like Doom Beam happens, and B) He still gets a crap ton of damage off random hits without assists backing him up. If we're talking about 1 meter damage, and using assists, I'm pretty sure Nemesis can match Tron's damage in the certain instances involving the corner. motion51 is often churning out new corner combos that range from 750,000 with a slam and 935,000 without, using one meter and assists, so yeah.

    Also, it's 5 frames for L command grab, 3 for M and 1 for H
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • MacarrattiMacarratti Joined: Posts: 1,421
    Thing about Tron is that she needs certain assists to make her super effective. And yeah, that's not too far off from Nemesis, but Tron I feel needs more from her assists and suffers more without them. Tron's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better at instant overheading than Nemesis, so having something like Deadpool or Felicia is just awesome. Imagine jL + Felicia and try blocking that. Tron combo extenders are definitely on the scaling side and tend to cost a lot for good damage, but I often see her getting a lot meter for various reasons when pros use her, so there might be something there. Another nice thing about Tron is that she actually has invincible supers, even if they are sort of ass at actually BEING invincible, but they're faster than Nemesis. And she DOES have an invincible, fast grab which is probably very useful, especially compared to our lumbering zombie friend.

    But Macaratti's right, Nemesis simply has more. His zoning and keepaway are functional to good, his normals are drastically better, his DHC into someone is almost universally synergetic, his angles are astounding, and Tron's impressive damage depends greatly on the assist backing her up. If Tron were assistsless, what would her damage be. Nice thing about Nemesis is that A) His reset options greatly increase damage even if scaling from something like Doom Beam happens, and B) He still gets a crap ton of damage off random hits without Tron backing him up. If we're talking about 1 meter damage, and using assists, I'm pretty sure Nemesis can match Tron's damage in the certain instances involving the corner. motion51 is often churning out new corner combos that range from 750,000 with a slam and 935,000 without, using one meter and assists, so yeah.

    Also, it's 5 frames for L command grab, 3 for M and 1 for H


    woah, Tentacle slam H is 1 frame!? i never knew that!

    but yeah, Gil's pretty spot on.
  • DukeofFortuneManDukeofFortuneMan I still like Nemesis... Joined: Posts: 1,278
    . And she DOES have an invincible, fast grab which is probably very useful, especially compared to our lumbering zombie friend.

    motion51 is often churning out new corner combos that range from 750,000 with a slam and 935,000 without, using one meter and assists, so yeah.

    1. I gotta watch motion's videos more. Yowza.

    2. Something for Nem to be jealous of is Tron's level 3 hyper. I wants that startup invincibility SO BAD.
    UMVC3: I know a ton of characters, not all of them great, but for now focusing on Deadpool/Vergil/Shuma, Deadpool/Taskmaster/Hawkeye, and Taskmaster/Vergil/Hawkeye MK9: Freddy Krueger, Stryker, Sektor ; Skullgirls: Cerebella/Filia for life (<3) ; Playstation Allstars: Ratchet ; Injustice: Zombie, Teen Titans

    Youtube channel: Derpfighter6
    Add me if you want to play some Marvel, GAU, Skullgirls or PSAS, I'm TiberiusF on PSN
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Factual Joined: Posts: 9,901
    woah, Tentacle slam H is 1 frame!? i never knew that!

    No, Tron's is.

    Nemesis is 7 for L, 20 for M/H
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • DazedDazed Two Frame Kill Joined: Posts: 597
    what the fuck did people on here really say that Tron does low damage?

    lol she does more than Nemmy with just 1 clakeyD assist off many more hitconfirms, and an combo extender assist for throws. srsly ppl Tron is shit, but at least MAKE SURE you know what you're on about.

    http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/time-for-a-comeback-the-umvc3-tron-bonne-combos-combo-video-thread.151710/

    and most of these are probably suboptimal.
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    YT
  • MacarrattiMacarratti Joined: Posts: 1,421
    No, Tron's is.

    Nemesis is 7 for L, 20 for M/H


    ok, I see now. thought you were referring to nemesis. I knew it was too good to be true XD

    what the fuck did people on here really say that Tron does low damage?

    lol she does more than Nemmy with just 1 clakeyD assist off many more hitconfirms, and an combo extender assist for throws. srsly ppl Tron is shit, but at least MAKE SURE you know what you're on about.

    http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/time-for-a-comeback-the-umvc3-tron-bonne-combos-combo-video-thread.151710/

    and most of these are probably suboptimal.




    aaaaaaaand there's where I get exposed.

    followed the link and took a look, and yeah, I was wrong. Her meter building is excellent, and her combos with an assist do some great damage. I feel like an idiot now. That's what I get for dropping a character and continuing to think I know what I'm talking about XD. I still say her solo damage is a little gimped, but yeah, that assisted damage was legit.

    my apologies for not doin' my research folks.
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Factual Joined: Posts: 9,901
    exposed

    Her solo damage IS crap, mostly because she can't OTG into Hyper without assists and all of her grounded combo extenders add a crap ton of scaling, such as Gustaff Fire. Tron's damage has always stemmed from her chaining of Hypers more than anything else, as while she can reach high damage without hypers, doing so is often in rare instances. Her moves more or less function like Zero or Chun-Li, the initially look like they do no damage, but after a while you notice that their minimum scaling is pretty high because of the multiple hits. So on one hand she has heavy-level damage with the likes of jH or S or whatnot, and on the other she has Bonne Strike and Gustaff Fire that don't do much but also don't scale too hard. The reason she's so assist dependand is that she can't transition from one to the other without assists or perfect setups, and lets not even forget her issues with OTGing.
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • MacarrattiMacarratti Joined: Posts: 1,421
    Her solo damage IS crap, mostly because she can't OTG into Hyper without assists and all of her grounded combo extenders add a crap ton of scaling, such as Gustaff Fire. Tron's damage has always stemmed from her chaining of Hypers more than anything else, as while she can reach high damage without hypers, doing so is often in rare instances. Her moves more or less function like Zero or Chun-Li, the initially look like they do no damage, but after a while you notice that their minimum scaling is pretty high because of the multiple hits. So on one hand she has heavy-level damage with the likes of jH or S or whatnot, and on the other she has Bonne Strike and Gustaff Fire that don't do much but also don't scale too hard. The reason she's so assist dependand is that she can't transition from one to the other without assists or perfect setups, and lets not even forget her issues with OTGing.

    yeah, that pretty much sums up my main issue with Tron. Her tech with assists is REALLY good, and really raises her usability, but if she's left without an assist to use, or doesnt have any assists that have good combo synergy, then yeah, she's rather gimped.

    I will say, after watching some of those tron combo vids, her meter gain IS a fuckton better than I originally thought, so her not having meter to burn is a situation she wont have to worry about too much. it looked like most combos build at least 1 meter before the first use of a hyper.
  • DukeofFortuneManDukeofFortuneMan I still like Nemesis... Joined: Posts: 1,278
    Sorry to stop the low-tier discussion, but there's something I'm curious about. I watch a ton of House of Crack, and has anyone taken a look at Bum's alt team? He used to run Spencer, but he runs Cap(Something, he barely uses cap assist), Arthur (Daggers), Nemesis(Launcher Slam). And yeah, that's the order. So, I was thinkin' what?! but after watching a few matches, I see what he was going for.

    So, Cap in front gets a nice amount of extension for everything he owns with that launcher slam, and the assist makes his incoming mixup game pretty intense, actually. In addition, his choice of Spencer and now Cap for lead is really specific, because they both have that hyper that goes into knockdown, which means Bum has his same Haggar THC tech for his alts. The THC is...well, I've never seen so much damage in a single THC in my life, as in, it did 3/4's of Dante's hp by itself. That is INSANE! That Nemesis boot will always connect at the end of it, with or without Arthur's Sonic Bracelet in the mix, which means extension, reliability, and even more damage. And you never get the Nem DHC, basically, with how Bum uses his hypers. I have watched a few sets with this team, and Nemesis rarely gets left as anchor, either. He usually switches in during the death of a character, then rushes down with Arthur daggers backing him up (a lot of the time Golden, too), which is a much better position for Nem than the opening of a match. Also, his Cap assist seems to be of the least use to the team, so Cap lead makes sense, but he foregoes the DHC problem of second-spot Nem by putting him in last (Arthur also has a very fun DHC). His Cap seems recent, because it is, but his Arthur is one of the best, and his Nem, while not jaw-dropping, is solid, and reads well.

    I mean, all of us are in preference of Nemesis lead, because this is the character we know best (for most of us, anyway), and the character we wanna showcase, and assist really makes Nemesis as comfortable as the higher tier characters in movement and smacking people in the face. Nemesis second has also been shown to be pretty viable by Airtola, but that requires some more specific stuff, and you can't rely on higher-damage DHC's and multiple assists for Nemesis, not all the time, anyway. Is it possible that we could also make some "support Nemesis" teams that manage to still keep Nem with assists? With meter-building characters and some good Team Hyper tech, it seems possible to slap Nem at the end of a very specific team, as blasphemous as that sounds. I found one amazing example, from a man who knows this game inside and out. I'mma check this shit out over the summer, see what I can see.

    Can anyone think of some other good team ideas to make use of this? My first thought that comes to mind is Dormammu, who has some intense THC damage, and likes the bounce. He can also get Nemesis a nice safe tag with his big Ball of Cheese, so Nem gets stuck as anchor less, and Dorm can fill the role of anchor pretty well. BRAINSTORMING TIME!!! Oh, and Storm might like it a bit, but that I'm less certain about.
    UMVC3: I know a ton of characters, not all of them great, but for now focusing on Deadpool/Vergil/Shuma, Deadpool/Taskmaster/Hawkeye, and Taskmaster/Vergil/Hawkeye MK9: Freddy Krueger, Stryker, Sektor ; Skullgirls: Cerebella/Filia for life (<3) ; Playstation Allstars: Ratchet ; Injustice: Zombie, Teen Titans

    Youtube channel: Derpfighter6
    Add me if you want to play some Marvel, GAU, Skullgirls or PSAS, I'm TiberiusF on PSN
  • MacarrattiMacarratti Joined: Posts: 1,421
    interesting shit


    huh, mind linkin' to some vids of this guy? I'd love to see him in action.

    as for the setup, I can see that working fine. I think the reason it works is that he's not using Nemesis in last as "anchor nemesis", he simply has him in back because that's the order that gives him the most control over his team. Most players don't call in their last character unless it's for a DHC kill, since the last character slot has been universally deemed "anchor" by almost everyone. Rather than playing by slots, he's playing by the entire team.

    My guess is, his game plan is to keep his whole team alive and kicking, and to be as fluid as possible, so there's no "oh fuck, there goes my point character TIME TO EAT A COMEBACK" that happens on some teams.

    I can dig that
  • triplexraidertriplexraider Fall into darkness! Joined: Posts: 1,057
    Praise for BUM's Alt Team and interesting Nemesis theory.

    Bum is a freaking god despite not going to tourneys. About the Nemesis support idea, it sounds interesting. Perhaps if I start Dorm/Arthur/Nemesis, a good idea would be to do Stalking Flare, DHC into Golden Armor, and then hard-tag Nemesis in so the order becomes Nemesis/Dorm/Arthur with frame advantage and Golden Daggers.

    Though the big problem is that Dorm on point can be iffy since he needs space to start and that space isn't always available to him.
    Manga Therapy - Where Psychology & Manga Meet (http://www.mangatherapy.com)
    PSN: triplexraider
    UMvC3: Thor/Dormammu/Doctor Doom, Wesker/Doctor Strange/Vergil
  • DukeofFortuneManDukeofFortuneMan I still like Nemesis... Joined: Posts: 1,278
    I tried out Wesker/Dorm/Nem very recently, and though I don't really play Wesker, and am very meh with Dorm, the team has some very obvious perks. Launcher Slam made every combo longer, that was a fun thing, and though I was entirely improvising my combos, the assists made it easier than I thought. On incoming, I managed to do some good stuff with launcher slam and crossunders with Wesker, and Dorm could probly do more on incoming with it. Every THC, two or three person, was very damaging, and I could always combo afterwards. Oh, and I actually really enjoyed pressing Dorm's THC button on reaction to an opponent dashing or trying to zone. It's a funny hit confirm, in a way, not the most efficient, but if you have meter to burn, it's awesome. I got caught with Nem anchor from time to time, but mostly I usually switched in Nem when I killed a character with Dorm, or just threw out a stalking flare and raw-tagged.

    Thing is that Nem/Dorm/Wesker is quite good, as well as Dorm/Nem/Wesker. Nemesis in last could work, but I'd probly want to learn what the hell I'm doing with the other members of my team first. But the big advantage is the THC, so I need to capitalize around that, otherwise why not start Nem point. Still trying to work this out in my head.
    UMVC3: I know a ton of characters, not all of them great, but for now focusing on Deadpool/Vergil/Shuma, Deadpool/Taskmaster/Hawkeye, and Taskmaster/Vergil/Hawkeye MK9: Freddy Krueger, Stryker, Sektor ; Skullgirls: Cerebella/Filia for life (<3) ; Playstation Allstars: Ratchet ; Injustice: Zombie, Teen Titans

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  • harleywastakenharleywastaken Joined: Posts: 266
    On incoming, I managed to do some good stuff with launcher slam and crossunders with Wesker

    there's a video somewhere (that i can't find) that is a few setups on incoming, Wesker teleport + Launcher Slam that iirc option selects into a throw or something like that. too bad i can't find it =/

    usually the only time i have Wesker out with Nemesis in the back is when someone tries to snap in Wesker; i just wing it on the incoming setups with Launcher Slam + a teleport and see what happens.
  • harleywastakenharleywastaken Joined: Posts: 266
    damn, pretty sure i found it in my bookmarks but the video was removed.
  • triplexraidertriplexraider Fall into darkness! Joined: Posts: 1,057
    Speaking of Wesker, is it really important that Nemesis gets an OTG assist?
    Manga Therapy - Where Psychology & Manga Meet (http://www.mangatherapy.com)
    PSN: triplexraider
    UMvC3: Thor/Dormammu/Doctor Doom, Wesker/Doctor Strange/Vergil
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Factual Joined: Posts: 9,901
    Speaking of Wesker, is it really important that Nemesis gets an OTG assist?

    Not terribly. Nemesis is in the boat of characters who benefit from it, but it isn't needed that much. Gunshot lets Nemesis turn random launches and hits into reset setups, but the actually combo extension is rather poor compared to others, as Nemesis's own combo extension and extended damage scaling is so good/poor respectively.
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • MacarrattiMacarratti Joined: Posts: 1,421
    Speaking of Wesker, is it really important that Nemesis gets an OTG assist?

    assists I find nemesis benefits the most from are assists that work as projectiles/ tools for approaching AS WELL AS combo extenders.

    that's why I have so much love for drones
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